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Topic: Sponge balls retention vanish
Message: Posted by: Montana76 (Apr 12, 2014 03:52PM)
Hi all!
Trying to learn the move but having problems.
When I pull the sponge ball back and hide it in the hand after closing the other hand how do you actually transfer the ball from pinched position to finger palm?
Message: Posted by: Chamberlain (Apr 12, 2014 04:43PM)
Surely curling your other fingers in will retain it in fingerpalm as you release with your index and thumb.

Use the old practice method of putting a wand/sharpie under your armpit, do the retention vanish as you reach for the sharpie and your hand will naturally take it into finger palam.
Message: Posted by: Motley Mage (Apr 12, 2014 06:41PM)
As with any vanish, a good idea is also to practice the natural, real transfer many times to get the feel of what it "should" look like first is a good start. Then, determine what is necessary for the false transfer to look as similar as possible. Note also Al Schneider's discussion on making eye contact for misdirection as the move is made. The idea is for the moment of transfer to involve the periphery rather than direct vision, in my opinion.
Message: Posted by: plink (Apr 12, 2014 09:34PM)
Have always gone into thumb palm after a sponge ball vanish. Holding the ball against the body with your wrist with your fingers free is a good place to go to after a vanish.
Message: Posted by: General_Magician (Apr 12, 2014 11:21PM)
Generally, when I perform the retention vanish I like for people to be looking at my hand as I perform the vanish because that is where the magic is happening. I haven't really seen very many magicians use the retention vanish that I use, but it's effective, works, doesn't look un-natural and it's straightforward as if I was just merely placing a sponge ball in my hand. However, it also requires a great deal of practice to perform smoothly, naturally and convincingly. In some cases, it's good to make eye contact while performing a sleight of hand move as part of a trick. However, I think in this case, it's best that the audience focus of attention be on the sleight of hand move while you are doing it because that is where the magic is also taking place.

Given this is the case, it has to really look like you put the sponge ball in your hand. Which means, practice, practice, practice. I like to use a video camera for practice and rehearsal sessions, that I can focus my attention on the sleight of hand move while not having to look at a mirror at the same time to see if it looks natural. Probably a good idea is to actually place the sponge ball in your hand in a straightforward manner to see what it looks like and your retention vanish should look no different. You can review the video taping to see how your retention vanish looks like in comparison to actually placing the sponge ball in your hand. It took a great deal of time, practice and patience for my retention vanish to mirror and look like when I genuinely place a sponge ball in my hand.

A retention vanish is also a very basic move, yet it requires a great deal or practice and hard work to master and you wouldn't think it was a basic move when you are first learning and practicing it given the amount of time and patience it requires to get the vanish to the standard it needs to be for performing in front of an audience. I think the key to being a good magician is really focusing on the basics like a retention vanish and doing the basics very well to give you that firm foundation as a performer that performs miracles before an audience while entertaining them. The basics are very important and should never be neglected or short changed or their importance under-estimated.
Message: Posted by: Christopher Lyle (Apr 23, 2014 11:32PM)
Montana,

I may have a solution to your issue. Do you Skype or FaceTime? I'd be happy to session with you on it. Let me know...
Message: Posted by: Torquay22 (Apr 24, 2014 01:21PM)
Gary darwin has some excellent variations of the move on sponge by jay noblezada
Message: Posted by: jimvines (Apr 25, 2014 06:48AM)
Study videos of Goshman doing sponge balls. He never does the awful "retention pass setup" (ie, that visual beat some magi take when the display the ball on their palm shortly before closing the hand - ugh.) Goshman doesn't even think about it... he simply puts the ball in his hand and that's that. Beautiful and perfect.
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Apr 25, 2014 10:32AM)
Jim Vines, you nailed something I've said for years... most false transfers fail because of what I call the wind-up and the pitch. The wind-up alerts the audience that something is about to happens... and then lo & behold... it does! Avoid telegraphing the move by just doing it. Same thing with balls, coins, etc. The wind-up before the pitch is second only in bad actions to hand-washing. (It takes old farts like us to know that! ;) )
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Apr 25, 2014 12:06PM)
Gee Michael! I just tuned in! I didn't know I was an "OF"! Hekk,I'm only 82!

Howsomever (that sounds like Hop A Long Cassidy's old side kick!) I agree most wholeheartedly with Jim Vines' appreciation of Al's thinking--and handling--of "them there sponge balls".

And that means that "ye and me" are in total agreement. Yes, I like your "wind-up and pitch" description! The same applies with the venerable French Drop.

Why do "they" always pick up the coin from the table and place it carefully between the fingers and thumb of the right hand--and THEN remove it with the left hand? Talk about "bending your knees" before you jump!

Of course, "hand washing" follows right behind the wind up & pitch! My mentors always told me to wash my hand BEFORE the show, not DURING!

Speaking of washing hands:

My mother always asked me: "Did you wash your hands? --Both of them? --On both sides? --Today? --With soap? I had the cleanest hands of any kid in town.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Apr 25, 2014 12:09PM)
P.S. Michael, if you keep using Biblical references like "Lo & Behold" (hee hee) you may begin quoting the "goddess Maja" (Hee Hee Hee)
Message: Posted by: eatonmagic (Apr 27, 2014 11:26PM)
I made a small video :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSB-r5XhTT0
Message: Posted by: APC (Apr 28, 2014 12:47AM)
Video is private :/

Would love to see it!
Message: Posted by: Countage (Apr 28, 2014 09:39PM)
Watch lots of other performers do it and then video tape your self doing it.
Message: Posted by: AJ MAJIC (Apr 29, 2014 01:43AM)
[quote]On Apr 28, 2014, APC wrote:
Video is private :/

Would love to see it! [/quote]

Yeah me too, its still private ? :-)
Message: Posted by: Greg_Magic (May 17, 2014 07:45AM)
Going along with General_Magician...I also started out by really putting the ball in my hand and really looking at what it looks like. Then I mimic that action when doing the retention. Also, a key point in misdirection is to look where you want the spectator to look. You need the spectator to look at the hand that you want them to THINK the ball is in so you have to lead them do to so by looking at your closed fist with nothing in it. It's weird at first but the more you practice the easier it will get. I hope this helps.
Message: Posted by: eatonmagic (May 19, 2014 12:41PM)
OK...video should now be good to go.
Message: Posted by: puggo (May 19, 2014 01:38PM)
[quote]On May 19, 2014, eatonmagic wrote:
OK...video should now be good to go. [/quote]

If you like this, do yourself a favour and pick up Michael's Penguin live lecture.
Message: Posted by: WilburrUK (May 19, 2014 03:58PM)
[quote]On May 19, 2014, puggo wrote:
[quote]On May 19, 2014, eatonmagic wrote:
OK...video should now be good to go. [/quote]

If you like this, do yourself a favour and pick up Michael's Penguin live lecture. [/quote]

I do like it, especially that last move, that's just great!
Message: Posted by: Montana76 (May 20, 2014 01:27AM)
[quote]On May 19, 2014, eatonmagic wrote:
OK...video should now be good to go. [/quote]

That was fantastic!
Thank you so much for taking the time to make the video.

Your vanish looks amazing, it fooled me over and over again. The retention of vision is perfect!
I really like that it looks convincing when seated. Do you cover the move in your penguin lecture?
Message: Posted by: Motley Mage (May 20, 2014 07:37AM)
Michael, that was flippin' BRILLIANT! I'll be working on sponges for a month now trying to get up to snuff on that steal. Nice!
Message: Posted by: puggo (May 20, 2014 09:55AM)
[quote]On May 20, 2014, Montana76 wrote:
[quote]On May 19, 2014, eatonmagic wrote:
OK...video should now be good to go. [/quote]

That was fantastic!
Thank you so much for taking the time to make the video.

Your vanish looks amazing, it fooled me over and over again. The retention of vision is perfect!
I really like that it looks convincing when seated. Do you cover the move in your penguin lecture? [/quote]

Both moves are in the lecture. I have used the steal for a while, it kind of reminds me of Gregory Wilson's bck stage pass, in that it is done in full view and is 100% (in my experience) deceptive.
Message: Posted by: Christopher Lyle (May 20, 2014 12:43PM)
Just when you think you know all there is to know. I gotta 3 hour plane trip on Saturday. I know what I'm working on. Awesome!
Message: Posted by: Montana76 (May 20, 2014 12:46PM)
Puggo: when you say steal, do you mean the vanish he uses?
Message: Posted by: puggo (May 20, 2014 01:43PM)
[quote]On May 20, 2014, Montana76 wrote:
Puggo: when you say steal, do you mean the vanish he uses? [/quote]

No, the second part of the video where there is genuinely a ball in each hand and then the very well justified move.. leaving 2 in one hand and none in the other. No FT required.
Quality stuff from Mr Eaton. I adopted it straight after the lecture. A relatively easy move considering how fair and motivated it is.
Message: Posted by: Montana76 (May 20, 2014 01:44PM)
Ahh I see. Thank you!
Message: Posted by: eatonmagic (May 20, 2014 05:05PM)
Thanks for the kind words guys. I actually an about to start filming another DVD and I use that move in a coins across routine. Hopefully you will enjoy it ;)
Message: Posted by: puggo (May 21, 2014 07:46AM)
[quote]On May 20, 2014, eatonmagic wrote:
Thanks for the kind words guys. I actually an about to start filming another DVD and I use that move in a coins across routine. Hopefully you will enjoy it ;) [/quote]
I look forward to you tipping what's going to be on the DVD - although I struggle with some of the harder coin work, I think that your lecture was full of attainable material for the worker or hobbiest.
Charlie
Message: Posted by: MR Effecto (May 21, 2014 07:51AM)
Eatonmagic. WoW. love the video. You just help me step up my game. Thanks.
:magicrabbit:
Message: Posted by: eatonmagic (May 21, 2014 08:09AM)
[quote]On May 21, 2014, puggo wrote:
[quote]On May 20, 2014, eatonmagic wrote:
Thanks for the kind words guys. I actually an about to start filming another DVD and I use that move in a coins across routine. Hopefully you will enjoy it ;) [/quote]
I look forward to you tipping what's going to be on the DVD - although I struggle with some of the harder coin work, I think that your lecture was full of attainable material for the worker or hobbiest.
Charlie [/quote]

Thanks so much Puggo! I really appreciate the feedback :)

-Eaton
Message: Posted by: Montana76 (May 21, 2014 08:22AM)
I am in the process of watching the Penguin Live Lecture. WOW! What a fantastic product!
Until you replied to this thread you were unknown to me. But what a terrific performer and great performing personality. I look forward to reading your posts and enjoying your products in the future. Thank you so much for chiming in on my question.
Message: Posted by: eatonmagic (May 21, 2014 09:35AM)
[quote]On May 21, 2014, Montana76 wrote:
I am in the process of watching the Penguin Live Lecture. WOW! What a fantastic product!
Until you replied to this thread you were unknown to me. But what a terrific performer and great performing personality. I look forward to reading your posts and enjoying your products in the future. Thank you so much for chiming in on my question. [/quote]

Hey Montana,

Wow! I really appreciate the kind words bro. Glad you are enjoying the lecture and if I can help you in any way don't hesitate to ask. I'm somewhat busy at the moment but I will get in touch with you :)

Just out of curiosity, is there a particular routine you liked the best off of the lecture? If so, why?
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Jun 8, 2014 09:06PM)
Gary Ouellet's Push Pinch Sponge ball Vanish.
Message: Posted by: patrick1515 (Jun 12, 2014 10:14AM)
Eaton, Great video, especially enjoyed the second vanish you demonstrated. Thank you!
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jun 12, 2014 01:44PM)
[quote]On Apr 28, 2014, eatonmagic wrote:
I made a small video :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSB-r5XhTT0 [/quote]
Nothing short of the best sponge tip here on the Café'. Maybe not even localized to sponges. Killer stuff.

It looks like a variation on an ancient coin steal I use. Never occurred to me ever to apply it with sponges. Nice. Very nice.
Message: Posted by: eatonmagic (Jun 13, 2014 10:52AM)
Thank you Patrick and Danny! I appreciate the kind words.

Magicfish, thank you for pointing this move out. I'll have to research it more as I cannot find any video on Gary's move. I'm certain that almost anything now has already been done and most guys can and will independently create a move. Happens all the time. I'd just like to properly credit :)
Message: Posted by: bowers (Jun 17, 2014 11:00AM)
Very fine work indeed.
Message: Posted by: Montana76 (Jun 21, 2014 11:50AM)
[quote]On May 21, 2014, eatonmagic wrote:
[quote]On May 21, 2014, Montana76 wrote:
I am in the process of watching the Penguin Live Lecture. WOW! What a fantastic product!
Until you replied to this thread you were unknown to me. But what a terrific performer and great performing personality. I look forward to reading your posts and enjoying your products in the future. Thank you so much for chiming in on my question. [/quote]

Hey Montana,

Wow! I really appreciate the kind words bro. Glad you are enjoying the lecture and if I can help you in any way don't hesitate to ask. I'm somewhat busy at the moment but I will get in touch with you :)

Just out of curiosity, is there a particular routine you liked the best off of the lecture? If so, why? [/quote]

Hi Eaton!!
No worries, been busy myself. Bought a new house and had my hands full with my two small children lately.

The funny thing with your lecture is that when I say your handling with the sponges I figured you to be stickler for technique. I love that, but when I saw your DL get-ready for ACR I loved you even more!! This proves the point "DO WHAT WORKS".
And to know that you performed for 700 people a night when doing strolling at the games I know that you are really the guy to listen to.

Thank you for doing the lecture and thank you for being here answering our questions; and even making a video showing what you mean.

You rock!
Message: Posted by: Magicmike1949 (Jul 12, 2014 02:07PM)
Got to get to work on that heel clip steal. Very deceptive! :bigdance:
Message: Posted by: tboehnlein (Jul 17, 2014 03:11PM)
Great stuff Eaton Impressive!!
Message: Posted by: motown (Jul 20, 2014 11:23PM)
[quote]On May 19, 2014, eatonmagic wrote:
OK...video should now be good to go. [/quote]great move
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Jul 29, 2014 12:35AM)
Wow! Nice moves with the sponge balls Michael.

Thanks for the video.

Jim