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Topic: Please help identify these cards
Message: Posted by: latentimage (Jun 8, 2014 02:36PM)
I was hoping that someone would recognize this brand of manipulation cards. I have never seen this back before. Any help would be much appreciated.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t103/imageten/Mobile%20Uploads/Magic/D78FBEC6-0E66-4027-AB2E-B2695E21C6AA.jpg

Best,

Allen
Message: Posted by: Stanyon (Jun 8, 2014 03:44PM)
Those are Bicycle "999 Steamboats". This was the preferred false deal card before "Bees".

FWIW
Message: Posted by: latentimage (Jun 8, 2014 03:55PM)
[quote]On Jun 8, 2014, Stanyon wrote:
Those are Bicycle "999 Steamboats". This was the preferred false deal card before "Bees".

FWIW [/quote]

Thank You Stanyon! Question answered!

Best,

Allen
Message: Posted by: Stanyon (Jun 8, 2014 10:53PM)
Let me correct myself....that should be USPCC "999 Steamboats", not "Bicycle".

FWIW
Message: Posted by: latentimage (Jun 9, 2014 04:51PM)
Thanks again, I actually found some. I ordered a brick from Dan and Dave, as I am positive they are the printing that matches the few cards I found. I asked in the manipulation section because when I picked up the card, I thought for sure it was meant for manipulation. I have been looking for a good "regular" card with an acceptable back for a while, and the Bees didn't work for me. These are just what I was looking for. I do hope D&D keep printing them.

Best,

Allen
Message: Posted by: Intrepid (Jun 9, 2014 05:51PM)
My understanding is that the new 999 steamboats are not the same as the old 999 steamboats. The new ones have the same plastic coating that all new cards have. Maybe someone who is more knowedgable than myself can confirm if this is correct.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jun 9, 2014 06:21PM)
Intrepid, you are correct. When the Steamboat cards were first made, they were simply thin paper/card stock. No stiffness or plastic coating to them. They were what the old west and riverboat gamblers used in the late 1800's. They were perfect for the stage manipulator, because with a little fanning powder they were perfect and flexible for front and back palming. They were thin, so you could hold a good number of cards for production. Some magicians still have some of the old Steamboat cards in their trunks.

If you are looking for a good poker size card, then the Million playing card from Japan is as close as you will get to a perfect manipulation card.

http://www.stevensmagic.com/shop/japanese-manipulation-cards-ugm/

For combination Fanning and Manipulation card, then the Diamond Color Manipulation Cards work very well. How, you get 2 flesh color on the back cards for palming.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIAMOND-COLOR-Manipulation-Cards-Ultra-Super-Thin-Stage-Magic-Trick-Accessories-/121310851932?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c3eb0b35c

I have ordered from this person and he delivers on time, about 3 weeks. Viking Magic use to carry these cards but I do not see them on his site any longer.
Message: Posted by: jay leslie (Jun 9, 2014 07:06PM)
Correct
I have a few original 999 decks and they are unglossy paper.
Message: Posted by: latentimage (Jun 9, 2014 09:29PM)
Hey guys,

I have never gotten to use a deck of the original Steamboats, but the ones I got a hold of the other day are the new D&D printing. How ever they are making them now, they work great for me for manipulation. The Dan and Dave site says "As one of our favorite decks we convinced the USPCC to allow us to reprint them to their original specification with a smooth finish on ultra thin paper."

To me, they do appear thinner and handle better than any "regular" card for manipulation purposes. They are definitely do not have the air cushion finish of a bicycle card. Once again, I have no frame of reference from the originals, but I am now convinced that I need to get a hold of an original deck just to check them out.

I do have a deck of the Million cards, but I prefer the snap of the new Steamboats. As far as actual manipulation cards go, I like the Lance Burtons best. I believe they are made by the same company as the "Million Magician Cards" since the joker and ace designs are the same. They are slightly different in size from each other though, even though both are supposedly "poker size".

Best,

Allen
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jun 9, 2014 09:56PM)
Allen Michael, we were answering your OP concerning recognizing the cards you referenced. Yes, we recognize the cards, they were on the market back in the 1970's and 1970's, I have no knowledge if they were ever removed from production. I have a deck or two, to try them out, I picked up at a local store.

Now to respond your comment that they were made by USPCC, yes they were or are, but the original was not, just Google 'Steamboat Playing Cards', the history is explained, they were not originally made by USPCC. They were made by another company. Just like today, companies are bought and sold. Same with this product. In fact, USPCC has bought out all the recent playing card companies that was their competition over the last 30 years.

All the reference to Steamboat being the best manipulation cards ever made, was by the magicians of the time, they were referring to the original, not the cards made by USPCC.

If the cards you ordered is to your liking, then certainly use them for your purposes, by all means. We were in no way saying anything about your choice, just your question in the form of a statement. We just don't want people to be mislead that these cards are anything like the original that was used by some very famous manipulators of years gone by, because they were not.

I found them just to stiff, and that was after several weeks of trying to break them in. This like many things in the world today, they "improve" them to the point they are nothing like the original. We see this all the time in magic and many consumer products.

Did you see the new and improved automobile, not gas pedal, no break pedal, and no steering wheel. Talk about a death trap, should be on the market in a few years. Can't wait.
Message: Posted by: latentimage (Jun 9, 2014 10:16PM)
Hey Bill,

I hope you don't think I took offense to anything anybody said. I am happy to learn about the history of the cards, and am not contesting it in any way.

The loose card I had in the picture is definately from the new run, and not the old ones manipulators often talk about. I do want to try out the old ones though if I can ever come across a deck, just to see what they were like. Does anybody know how to identify ones that were the original stock? After reading the descriptions here, I could probably tell by handling them, but I would most likely have to buy them from eBay if I ever wanted to find any, so I would probably have to guy by what the box looked like or where they were printed. At least one auction right now is selling some "older" ones, but they too were made by the USPCC in Ohio, so I'm thinking those ones would certainly not be the original stock.

Best,

Allen
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jun 9, 2014 10:26PM)
About 6 year ago, a member on the Café gave a person 2 decks of the original. Lucky guy!

Like I suggested, if you are really interested, just Google it.
Message: Posted by: Brad Jeffers (Jun 9, 2014 11:43PM)
[quote]On Jun 9, 2014, Bill Hegbli wrote:
All the reference to Steamboat being the best manipulation cards ever made, was by the magicians of the time, they were referring to the original, not the cards made by USPCC. [/quote]

And the back design of the original Steamboats used by manipulators was not the same as the later day Steamboats.

Quoting Lewis Ganson from Card Magic by Manipulation ... "What were the qualities of the "Steamboats" which made them so desirable? They were thin, pliable, smooth on the face and back and fanned easily. The back design consisted of a series of lines running diagonally across the cards, right to the edges, the colour being almost "flesh". This colour blended with that of the hand and made them almost invisible if a glimpse on the back card was accidently permitted whilst the cards were held in the back-palm position.

The Steamboats described by Ganson are the ones on the left ...

[img]http://p2.la-img.com/177/18526/6259283_1_l.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: Intrepid (Jun 10, 2014 05:19AM)
[quote]On Jun 9, 2014, Bill Hegbli wrote:
If you are looking for a good poker size card, then the Million playing card from Japan is as close as you will get to a perfect manipulation card.
[/quote]
Speaking of Million, I was wondering if the Juliana Chen manipulation cards where printed on the same card stock as the Million cards. I recall her saying that her cards were printed in Japan, but don't recall the company she used as this was a few years back.

Bob
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jun 10, 2014 05:59AM)
[quote]
On Jun 10, 2014, Intrepid wrote:
[quote]
On Jun 9, 2014, Bill Hegbli wrote:
If you are looking for a good poker size card, then the Million playing card from Japan is as close as you will get to a perfect manipulation card.
[/quote]
Speaking of Million, I was wondering if the Juliana Chen manipulation cards where printed on the same card stock as the Million cards. I recall her saying that her cards were printed in Japan, but don't recall the company she used as this was a few years back.

Bob
[/quote]

Juliana Chen cards were printed by the same company that prints Lance Burton's Manipulation Cards.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Jun 10, 2014 07:16AM)
Right Brad Jeffers!
When I was a young lad trying to be "swayve and deboner", I bought "white tie and tails", wore white gloves and did card fan productions. I had to break in a couple decks (I used Bike Fan backs and Aviator "Fox Lake" backs.

Then, when Stuart Ross (my first mentor) died, I was able to get some Steamboats. (DENVER PLAIDS=top left in your photo.) They were GREAT, for all the reasons stated above.

The magicians of Ring 103 thought that I was a "god"!. But in the 'real world", my "sophisticatd" act wasn't salable. I kept the Aviator and Bike Fan Backs to do the fancy shuffles with, and SOLD the STEAMBOATS. (In retrospect, I wish I hadn't!)

Thanks for the pics! You and Bill Hegbli have brought back some good memories!
Message: Posted by: Intrepid (Jun 15, 2014 10:45AM)
[quote]On Jun 10, 2014, Bill Hegbli wrote:
Juliana Chen cards were printed by the same company that prints Lance Burton's Manipulation Cards. [/quote]
Bill you are a fountain of information.
I believe they used a slightly thicker card stock for the Lance Burton cards. They feel a tad stiffer to me.
To my novice hands, the Million, Nielsen Ultra Thin, and the Juliana Chen cards feel identical. I've waxed the Juliana Chen cards and like how smoothly they fan. Will the other cards I mentioned take wax just as well as the achen cards (i.e. do they all have the same finish?) Or are some cards better for powder and others better for wax?

Bob
Message: Posted by: Intrepid (Jun 15, 2014 12:54PM)
FYI, I was comparing the above cards to Juliana Chen's black and white fanning cards (not the older ones with the black, green, red and white backs or the plastic throwing cads just to be clear).
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jun 15, 2014 12:55PM)
[quote]
On Jun 15, 2014, Intrepid wrote:
[quote]On Jun 10, 2014, Bill Hegbli wrote:
Juliana Chen cards were printed by the same company that prints Lance Burton's Manipulation Cards.
[/quote]
Bill you are a fountain of information.
I believe they used a slightly thicker card stock for the Lance Burton cards. They feel a tad stiffer to me.
To my novice hands, the Million, Nielsen Ultra Thin, and the Juliana Chen cards feel identical. I've waxed the Juliana Chen cards and like how smoothly they fan. Will the other cards I mentioned take wax just as well as the achen cards (i.e. do they all have the same finish?) Or are some cards better for powder and others better for wax?

Bob
[/quote]

From my information the only reason that Japanese used was because Zink Stearate was not available in Asia. Therefore, they found another substance evenly fan a spread of cards in the hand.

More then the substance, it really depends on the weather and climate in your area of the world. I found that in the summer here in north eastern Indiana the old Norm Nielsen cards did not need any fanning powder. They are no longer being sold and I like his new $5 card over the more expensive. Consider that his cards may have changed again since I last purchased a deck.

There is no one answer to fit all types of playing cards, and all areas of the world.
Message: Posted by: leomagnus (Jun 15, 2014 07:45PM)
Those old Steamboats are nice. I found a couple decks in the attic a while back. One open and one sealed. Don't think I'll be opening the sealed one! The open deck is probably 40-50 years old and still fans beautifully.
Wish they were still around.

-Leo
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jun 15, 2014 09:44PM)
[quote]
On Jun 15, 2014, leomagnus wrote:
Those old Steamboats are nice. I found a couple decks in the attic a while back. One open and one sealed. Don't think I'll be opening the sealed one! The open deck is probably 40-50 years old and still fans beautifully.
Wish they were still around.

-Leo
[/quote]

To be the ones we are talking about on the upper left corner, they have to be more like 85 to 170 year old.