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Topic: X-ball
Message: Posted by: RJH (Jun 17, 2014 03:41AM)
It seems that there is a new billiard ball gimmick named X-ball. Here is a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gKEZkS-_eE
I hope that Bojan can give us more intel.

RJH
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Jun 17, 2014 09:55AM)
Looks great! Can't locate the product on their website. Any links?
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Jun 17, 2014 12:00PM)
Beautiful! Thought I caught an edit or two...maybe not. I'll be watching for this!

Doug
Message: Posted by: leomagnus (Jun 17, 2014 12:53PM)
Perhaps something akin to a Durania ball? My main concern is that the balls are clearly different sized and very small, and also the colors don't match, and I'm not sure you could match them too well with a non gaff set. If you could match the colors, and the gimmick was available in a bigger size so that the change in size(between the the main gimmick and it's load ball) isn't so noticeable this could be very cool.

-Leo
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jun 17, 2014 02:21PM)
As I see it, that promo is very misleading. Most of that material is taught on Bond Lee's DVD on his Billiard Ball routine called [b]Born[/b]. What they are actually selling is not made to stand out in any way in that Promo.

If you purchased his DVD called, "Born", you would see Bond Lee does use different balls from various manufacturers, but that has nothing to do with what this topic is about, which is a Ball being referred to as [b]X- Ball[/b]. What that is and what is does is not pointed out in the demo.

Please refer to this topic of discussion for a comparison and video link.
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=516719&forum=10

leomagnus, Bond Lee only uses a shell on his DVD, no Durania Ball or gimmicks, it is all his masterful skill in the Bond DVD. If "X-Ball" is in that video, it is very hard to detect what it is and what is does that would be so different. Unless, they are saying that moves like Bond Lee's can be done with a gimmicked ball of some kind.

A search brought up this website and X-Ball:
http://www.808magic.com.tw/product_info.php?id=689

1800 Chinese yuan = $290.483 U.S. Currency

Just a tad expensive.
Message: Posted by: RJH (Jun 17, 2014 02:52PM)
And here is the X-Holder! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIrWSTqo-Dw

Bill saying that most of the stuff shown on the trailer is taught in Born, is wrong if you ask me. There are similar moves, routines and tricks, but the ones shown in the trailer are more clean!

RJH
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Jun 17, 2014 03:26PM)
RJH That link showed some very nice sleeving work. I suspect the touch at the elbows was relesing the ball being held to drop into the hands. Or he was just holding out the balls in his sleeve. The man is masterful and a joy to watch.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jun 17, 2014 03:45PM)
RJH, I doubt an audience will see the difference, go for it if you have the desire and resources. I would think you have to buy 2, one read and one white. That is $580.966, plus postage.

Another device, it looks like it has no connection to X-B, but it may be able to be used with it, who knows. Just this manufacturer is naming everything X something-an-other.

So a device you have to have a coat special made or a current one totally altered. I don't think spending over a thousand dollars is worth a billiard ball routine. Produce doves, it brings on the applause more then a ball color change or appearance.

Harry, watch the whole video, it exposes the gimmicks. What a contraption indeed.

Here is the holder, same price as ball:
http://www.808magic.com.tw/product_info.php?id=690

So now it would be more like over a $1000 for the balls and gimmicks, plus having a Taylor made coat. WOW!

And no place to perform it.
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Jun 18, 2014 05:34AM)
Thanks for the link. It is exactly what I thought it would be. A mechanical hold-out. Nice design and working I think. I totally agree with you, Over $1000 in props and set-up (tailoring) and no place to play.
Message: Posted by: dahih beik (Jun 18, 2014 11:47AM)
I see a durania here .was explaned by richard ross.
Message: Posted by: jay leslie (Jun 18, 2014 12:05PM)
Very interesting
I perform a watch routine that uses a 2 stage holdout (clamp and cord) but the release is facilitated by pushing my arm against my side.

One thing about all the moves on the video- Some might have the impression that you can make an entire routine from several moves but in reality, you can only do 1 or 2 bits before you have to reset.. That said, it would make a great start or finish to other sleights in your repertoire.
Message: Posted by: john wills (Jun 18, 2014 12:51PM)
Is it not the moment to bring this Topic DOWNSTAIRS ???
Message: Posted by: bojanbarisic (Jun 18, 2014 01:23PM)
Elias you are right,it is Durania by Werner Geissler - Werry
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Jun 18, 2014 01:43PM)
[quote]On Jun 18, 2014, bojanbarisic wrote:
Elias you are right,it is Durania by Werner Geissler - Werry [/quote]

It had all the earmarks of this in the performance. Are there perhaps two in play at one time? The 1 to 4 seems to suggest that.

The video may be somewhat misleading if intended as a demo of the product, because some of the vanishes and productions are clearly done by different method, as noted above by others.

Still, it was very magical to watch.

BTW - I have a Durania ball that has a breach in the wall by one of the pivot holes. Of course the pin won't stay put. Any thoughts on who might be able to repair it? I doubt it would be practical to "fix" the broken hole, but maybe rotate the gizmo a few degrees, with new holes drilled and a new slot for the stop pin??
Message: Posted by: jay leslie (Jun 18, 2014 02:28PM)
Michael, send me a good photo.
Z Email is in my profile :)
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Jun 18, 2014 03:15PM)
I will once I figure out where I put it. LOL! I've been reorganizing my collection lately, so it's anyone's guess at the moment! :)
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Jun 18, 2014 04:13PM)
Jay, I just sent you 4 photos. Thanks for taking a look.
Message: Posted by: AbsoluteZero (Jun 18, 2014 05:11PM)
Bill,

The price is in Taiwanese dollar.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jun 18, 2014 05:44PM)
[quote]
On Jun 18, 2014, AbsoluteZero wrote:
Bill,

The price is in Taiwanese dollar.
[/quote]

It is listed as 1800 yuan, not as TWD.

That would make a big difference to 1,800 TWD = $59.8653 or $59.87 x 4 = $239.48 for 2 balls and 2 droppers. Plus postage.

To bad they do not have an English website to confirm, they might get some business from outside of Taiwan. There was an 808 website in English, but I cannot find it now. Just found it, it was King Magic and they are in China, and do not have the X- ball or box. Different place. Oh Well.
Message: Posted by: AbsoluteZero (Jun 18, 2014 05:53PM)
Bill,

I am pretty sure about the pricing. Feel free to double check it.
Single ball = 1800NT, one pair = 3000NT
The unit "yuan" doesn't limit to China only.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jun 18, 2014 05:59PM)
It could be the Google translator reads it as Chinese writing. I don't believe they can translate Taiwanese, I don't see it in the Google list.

I have not way to check, as here in America, translators are not commonly used.

What is NT, it is not listed on the Currency Converter.
Message: Posted by: AbsoluteZero (Jun 18, 2014 06:02PM)
Bill,

Do you know this is a Taiwanese shop?
Correction: I was referring to the price of the holder instead of ball.
Single holder = 1800NT, one pair = 3000NT.
Message: Posted by: airztonne (Jun 20, 2014 11:32AM)
I saw the X ball and the X holder on sale at the Subang Magic Convention and it was sold at about 40 usd each.

The X Ball is a Shell gimmick where you are able to show the balls front and back after a production, which you cannot do normally. It's made of metal(to prevent denting/breaking if it is dropped) and the size is a tad bigger than a 1.7 inch ball with double shell. This is so it can house a single ball in it. A bit of familiarising is required as the gimmick is fairly awkward to handle the first few times.

The X holder is a holder strapped on the arm and has two compartments with seperate release mechanisms. So one can steal something without stealing from the side. It is able to hold a ball with two shell or an X ball or even silks in a single compartment. All you need is a coat/Sleeve that are bigger than what you currently wear.

I think, the X series is an attempt to revolutionise the way ball manipulation is and to try to improve certain aspects of Ball manipulation. And no, you wont need 1000 usd for all this even if the retail price is higher than the convention price.
Message: Posted by: Matt101 (Jun 21, 2014 01:01PM)
Is there any other shop than 802 that sells those X holders?

Thanks,

Mat
Message: Posted by: RJH (Jun 30, 2014 02:00PM)
Here are the new trailers!

X-ball: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNyLT_7ABCs

X-Holder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Kt1pwnYv4U

RJH
Message: Posted by: mickey.w (Jul 3, 2014 06:24AM)
Hey guys, I'm from Hong Kong and it is a hong kong company that produced this ball. I am informed that X-ball is akin to the Durania, and um the ACCURATE price is around 50USD per ball.
Message: Posted by: sam2452 (Jul 3, 2014 08:40PM)
What is the ball made of plastic or metal?
Message: Posted by: airztonne (Jul 6, 2014 03:20AM)
It's made of metal.
Message: Posted by: RJH (Jul 6, 2014 03:24AM)
If it's made of metal, how can we see JieLi and JL shel*s used at the video....?

RJH
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jul 7, 2014 11:06AM)
I ordered the X-Ball from Bond Lee just now, it was $63.00 with postage.
Message: Posted by: Bond_L (Jul 7, 2014 01:12PM)
Dear Friends,

Here is two updated video of both X-ball and X-series
Trailer
X-ball: http://youtu.be/G5TFGrT7lyI
X-holder: http://youtu.be/eoxMk8Etosk

if you wish, you can purchase it here,
http://www.magiclismstore.com/

Cheers,
Bond
Message: Posted by: Bond_L (Jul 7, 2014 01:15PM)
[quote]On Jul 3, 2014, sam2452 wrote:
What is the ball made of plastic or metal? [/quote]

It is made of metal, coated with special paint allow you to have a better grip.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jul 7, 2014 01:45PM)
Don't forget to buy the GMVL DVD on Richard Ross, he started the whole craze for this gimmicked ball. His Billiard Ball routine is worth learning.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jul 7, 2014 01:47PM)
Bond_L, how many X-Holders are in the box for $55.00?
Message: Posted by: Bond_L (Jul 8, 2014 05:26AM)
[quote]On Jul 7, 2014, Bill Hegbli wrote:
Bond_L, how many X-Holders are in the box for $55.00? [/quote]

One box include one holder.
You can release two ball from it.
Message: Posted by: bojanbarisic (Jul 8, 2014 12:21PM)
I received my first Durania in 1988. Can`t remember who produced it but at that time I wanted to stay away from any shell in my ball routine. My routine was quite similar to Ger Copper`s. In 1991 my home was set on fire during the war time in former Yugoslavia with most of my props including that shell so I really didn`t explore that gimmick very much. Many years later I watched Tommy Wonder`s ball routine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK3JIGZctNM and it changed my opinion about Durania shell and since this clip was taken at FISM Paris in 1973 I wondered if it predated marketed version by Werry.
Today I received a gift from my good friend Bond Lee. It is a X-holder and a X-ball. Quality of both products is really good. X-ball is much better than one I had years back. Since you can combine it with a magnetic armband it opens up many possibilities as seen in Bond`s video. Even though it is metal grip is quite good and gimmick works very smoothly. I really hope that Panky will soon realize that most magicians in USA and Europe work will larger balls than 1.75 and he will also produce larger X-balls to match those sets of 2, 2 1/8, 2 1/4 inches. X-ball holder will work both with 1.75 and 2 inch balls and one holder holds 2 balls. It is a very unique design of dropper, made out of metal and will last forever. I tried both JL and Fakini balls and working was smooth. If your sleeves are not already full of pulls, reels, holdouts and other gadgets most of us like to play with than this gimmick can be a great addition to your ball act.
Thanks Bond for such a great gift.

Best,
Bojan
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jul 8, 2014 12:58PM)
The 1st exposure we American's had with the Durania shell ball was when Richard Ross offered his routine on the GMVL, and on the DVD Richard stated he did not know who made it or invented it.

If you have the Tommy Wonder books, you will note that he was not using a Durania Ball, but his very own designed oval balls. The oval shape makes it possible to create similar effects as the Durania, but a totally different method.

Let's not get everyone confused.
Message: Posted by: bojanbarisic (Jul 8, 2014 01:15PM)
Bill what I am talking about is Tommy Wonder`s routine from video clip I provided. Watch his ending showing 3 full balls in his left hand, producing 4th ball between ring finger and pinky and than turning the palm toward the audience to show 4 full balls. This has nothing to do with his unique oval shaped balls that he used for first 3 productions and color changes in this act. I always admired Richard Ross but if he said that on Steven`s magic video he was not telling the truth. He knew very well it was invented by Werry.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jul 8, 2014 01:23PM)
[quote]On Jul 8, 2014, bojanbarisic wrote:
Bill what I am talking about is Tommy Wonder`s routine from video clip I provided. Watch his ending showing 3 full balls in his left hand, producing 4th ball between ring finger and pinky and than turning the palm toward the audience to show 4 full balls. This has nothing to do with his unique oval shaped balls that he used for first 3 productions and color changes in this act. I always admired Richard Ross but if he said that on Steven`s magic video he was not telling the truth. He knew very well it was invented by Werry. [/quote]

I did not know Werry made anything out of metal.

That final ball appearance in the left and right hands, between the 3rd and little fingers is taught on the Richard Ross DVD. Very difficult move to accomplish.
Message: Posted by: bojanbarisic (Jul 8, 2014 02:28PM)
You are right Bill, it was on Ross DVD but this clip was made 20 years before Stevens produced Richard`s video tape. I forgot to say that my doubts about who was first using those shells finished when I read a wonderful book by Wittus Witt "Werry, Ein Leben rund um die »Magische« Welt". Durania Billiardballtrick was invented by Werry in 1957. What was it made from is hard to tell from the photo in that book but I doubt it was plastic.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jul 8, 2014 04:37PM)
Thank you Bojan for the references and explanation.

I know I am stating the obvious, but it matters little when the video of Richard Ross was made, as at that time personal video recording was just invented and taking off, and magic videos were very new in the U.S. We thank Stevens Magic for bringing all those famous magicians to the U.S. to video tape their material. The Billiard Ball routine with the Durania is one of the last things on the video as I remember, and it was given more of a "here is what I did years ago" type of information, or it could have been to fill out the time on the video. Of course, I have no idea why it was included, except maybe to show his skill at designing a routine using this unique gimmick. Just as he included a jumbo card fanning routine and did not give any explanation on how to do the moves.

Of the numerous competition acts that I have seen of Richard Ross, I have never seen a Billiard Ball routine, or his Coins In Glass idea in any of the video acts. I have seen his card fanning routine though on video.

Many magicians work on ideas and routines, that they enjoy but never get to "the act" so who knows.

I just know that his Billiard Ball routine with the Durania Ball is worth mentioning and looking up for a possible move or handling that can be included in one's own act.

Then Stevens Magic was bombarded with request for the Durania Ball to be made available. After extensive searches, nothing turned up, so they had a craftsman make a few. I think it was Viking Magic. It took a long time to sell all the gimmicks, as they were much more expensive then the one being offered by Bond Lee, then they included Fakini Balls with them and then the price sky rocketed.

Bond Lee has emailed me, that my Durania Ball is in the mail, looking forward to working with it.

[b]Question, is any video instruction going to be produced for the X-Ball and X-Holder?[/b]
Message: Posted by: Bond_L (Jul 10, 2014 03:23PM)
Here are some comment from different magicians, for your reference.

X-Ball
http://youtu.be/XrP2dbyElTM
X-Holder
http://youtu.be/_24hVbbgg0M
Message: Posted by: RJH (Sep 12, 2014 06:31AM)
And now it seems that there is also X multiplying ball. It seems to be a flash four gimmick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNsBMw-_g1U

RJH
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Oct 27, 2014 03:31AM)
X Multiplying Balls has to be the hardest handling to learn. To bad there is not any training video provided for the X Balls.

Interesting that everyone wants one when they are not available, and when they are, no one buys them and comments on their success with the gimmicked ball.
Message: Posted by: yin_howe (Oct 27, 2014 05:18AM)
[quote]On Sep 12, 2014, RJH wrote:
And now it seems that there is also X multiplying ball. It seems to be a flash four gimmick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNsBMw-_g1U

RJH [/quote]

Ah... I was hoping someone would remake this.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Oct 27, 2014 06:00AM)
[quote]On Sep 12, 2014, RJH wrote:
And now it seems that there is also X multiplying ball. It seems to be a flash four gimmick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNsBMw-_g1U

RJH [/quote]

I researched this last September, it is using two 2 X Ball gimmicks. It is not a Nesto Ball set. I can't remember where I found these available.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Feb 12, 2015 07:38PM)
Is there any training videos out yet for the X-Ball. The gimmicks would sell better if a little description that have been created with this ball gimmick.

The above video seemed to be a promo video, but I have not seen anything further if it is a promotion for a DVD or not.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jan 21, 2020 10:46AM)
Bringing this Bond Lee Billiard ball topic back up do to the new Reborn DVDs being sold currently. It seems that it has taken 6 years to bring these Flash Four gimmicks and holders to the Magic Community. I wondered why Bond Lee looked older. :rotf:

Reading back over this material, it is a very good discussion like no other I have run across on the Café.

Wish more topic were discussions and not, where can I buy this questions, or I only want to know how it is done right now comments.