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Topic: Strong endings for Nightmare
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jan 19, 2004 12:17AM)
Well, I was wondering, after performing Professor's Nightmare for several years, if there is a stronger ending than the one I am currently use.

Presently, I toss the ropes in the air, claiming that they all revert back to the same size in mid -air, but I am sure there are other ways to end the effect.

P.S., Stoner's great. I had visited his shop a number of times when he had one in S. Bend. He closed that shop down, though, and I have no knowledge if Mr. Stoner is still alive.

Anybody else have a favorite ending they would like to share?
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jan 19, 2004 12:48AM)
[quote]
On 2004-01-19 01:17, daffydoug wrote:
claiming that they all revert back to the same size in mid -air
[/quote]
This is confusing, why would you tell the audience that they will be reverting to what you are holding in your hand?

To recap: The trick I believe you are doing is - 3 unequal rope change/stretch to 3 equal ropes.

My ending was shown to me by Dick Stoner, Trade Show Magician, almost 50 years ago. It is the best ending I have ever seen.

It is priceless!!!!

Bill
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jan 19, 2004 05:31AM)
What I meant by "same size" is the size they were before they were streched, in other words, one long, one medium, one short. consider that a little typo, just look at the time it was when I made the post! I was burning the midnight oil.
Message: Posted by: Andini (Jan 19, 2004 09:25AM)
Daffydoug, take a look at Mac King's lecture notes. He has a great ending to the Professor's Nightmare and it goes like this:

After the unequal ropes change into three equal pieces of rope, those three change into TWO equal pieces of rope. These ropes are tied together and restore into one large piece of rope.

It's not incredibly difficult and it's a surprising ending for such a rouine.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jan 19, 2004 09:45AM)
Andini,

daffydoug wanted your ideas, not someone elses. It is not polite to steal other peoples tricks or routines.

Share your ideas if you want, but not other peoples ideas without their permission.

Bill
Message: Posted by: Andini (Jan 19, 2004 05:29PM)
Bill, I have not stolen Mac's routine. I've only begun to work it into my existing rope routine and I felt that it was a strong ending to the routine. Did I EXPOSE the effect? I didn't once mention the mechanics of the routine. Had I done so, then I'd be doing something wrong. However, I clearly cited Mac King as the source I learned it from. If daffydoug would like to look into the routine, he must do so by purchasing Mac's notes. I have only the utmost respect for Mr. King and would like to see his work used more by magicians.

Also, daffydoug never specifically asked for MY ideas that I, MYSELF have come up with. He merely asked:
[quote]if their is a stronger ending than the one I currently use.
[/quote]
I truly appreciate your concerns about respecting the work of others but I honestly don't think that I've done anything wrong. I'm sorry for this response post and it's not meant to be a personal attack, Bill, but I was just angrily confused at your post.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jan 20, 2004 12:23AM)
[quote]
On 2004-01-19 10:25, Andini wrote:
Daffydoug, take a look at Mac King's lecture notes. He has a great ending to the Professor's Nightmare and it goes like this:

After the unequal ropes change into three equal pieces of rope, those three change into TWO equal pieces of rope. These ropes are tied together and restore into one large piece of rope.

It's not incredibly difficult and it's a surprising ending for such a rouine.
[/quote]
Sounds great! Where can I find his lecture notes?
Message: Posted by: Andini (Jan 20, 2004 06:32AM)
You can pick up a copy at http://www.mackingshow.com/swag.html

The lecture notes also have some other nifty tricks in it! Enjoy!
Message: Posted by: RayBanks (Jan 20, 2004 09:22AM)
[quote]
On 2004-01-19 01:17, daffydoug wrote:

P.S., Stoner's great. I had visited his shop a number of times when he had one in S. Bend. He closed that shop down, though, and I have no knowledge if Mr. stoner is still alive.
[/quote]
Dick Stoner is alive and well and still setting the bar for trade show magicians.

I see him every year in Las Vegas at the Broadcaster's convention.
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Jan 20, 2004 12:18PM)
[quote]
On 2004-01-20 10:22, RayBanks wrote:

Dick Stoner is alive and well and still setting the bar for trade show magicians.
[/quote]
And a heck of a nice guy to boot.
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Jan 20, 2004 02:45PM)
BTW, I use the same ending for my rope routine, which is a combination of cut and restored and then professor's nightmare. My routine is a combo of moves from Slydini and Whit Haydn's Mongolian Pop Knot, which is a great routine and very well written out. You can get Whit's material--video or book form--at http://www.SchoolForScoundrels.com. It's an extremely strong ending.
Whit's presentation is great too. Although my presentation is different.
Jim
Message: Posted by: Ron Reid (Jan 20, 2004 06:14PM)
Hi Andini:

Thanks for the information on Mac King's lecture notes - much appreciated. Not sure what the other fellow is so upset about...there was nothing wrong with your posting.

Ron
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jan 20, 2004 08:54PM)
Actually, I think what happens (and I've been through it a number of times) is that we post something, meaning one thing, but somewhere in the next person's mind, it gets totally misconstrued, and before you know it, tempers flare, and, well, you know the rest.

I suppose that's just part of life in the virtual universe, where complete strangers are brought together in a flash of time, ...really, it's just inevitable. all we can do is explain ourselves, apologize, forgive, forget and move on.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jan 22, 2004 01:24PM)
Andini,

I must appologize if you got upset. I did not know that Mac King has published any of his material.

Bill :bawl:
Message: Posted by: Andini (Jan 22, 2004 05:08PM)
No problem, Bill! Just a simple misunderstanding. :jump:
Message: Posted by: actorscotty (Jan 29, 2004 12:05AM)
I finish my rope routine with Professor's Nightmare, after the cut, restored, twice( different versions, pop off knot, I cut the rope into 3 "equal pieces" explaining how hard that is to do, saying that when I first started I folded the rope (fold in half) cut but they always came out different, show different lengths, tie all three together and remove the knots so they are one long length, replace one of the knots and untie it, ...end
Message: Posted by: Masimax (Feb 3, 2004 03:23AM)
At the end of my routine I restore the three equal ropes to one long rope.

Ciao
Massimo Pulidori
Message: Posted by: Scott Penrose (Feb 3, 2004 02:32PM)
Daryl's Rope Routine has an excellent ending (available in a book form from dealers). I believe the idea for the finish he uses comes from Harry Lorrayne. I have used it for years and would highly recommend it.

Regards

Scott
Message: Posted by: santlerconjurer (Feb 28, 2004 08:35PM)
Hen Fetsch's Quadroplets adds a stretched rope, optional cut and restored, and finale in which remaining two superlong ropes combine into one long piece.
Message: Posted by: Dan Monroe (Feb 29, 2004 12:23PM)
Yes I can tell you that Dick Stoner is alive and well Here in Ft. Wayne IN. He still has 2 shops here. if you are ever in the area stop in at his downtown store he is in there a lot. I buy alot of my magic there and Dick is always ready to show you the new stuff. I will go in to buy some rope or somthing simple and Dick will show me something new and I walk out with a much lighter wallet. LOL Isn't magic great!
Message: Posted by: toberman (Mar 29, 2004 12:00AM)
Check out Daryl's rope routine. Not just for his ending but for his whole routine(which is great!).
Message: Posted by: DanHarlan (Mar 30, 2004 12:59PM)
Here's a simple ending which I have found to be very effective:
You have stretched the ropes to equal size, and displayed them according to your whim. You are left holding the ropes in your right hand. The top ends are S, S, M, if you get my meaning. The M is held deep in the fork of your thumb. The next S out is right next to it. The furthest S is pinched between your right thumb and index finger tips, ready to be released.

With your left hand, pick up one of the L ends at the bottom of the equal ropes. Hold it pinched between your left thumb and index finger tips to mirror your right hand. The audience sees you holding one of the equal ropes by its ends. Tell them that "the moment I touch the ends of this rope together, the ropes will return to their original lengths."

Bring your right hand about six inches above your left. Quickly move it straight down, touching the pinched ends together and simply releasing the RIGHT hand's pinched S end ONLY. The audience sees you toss the right end down transforming the rope into a long one. You now have the long rope in your left hand and the short and medium ropes in your right hand! I hope that is obtuse, yet clear.
--Dan Harlan
Message: Posted by: Daniel Faith (Apr 19, 2004 09:23PM)
Dick Stoner is still around.
He has stores in Fort Wayne and Indianapolis, Indiana.
You can also go to his website.
http://www.dickstoner.com/
Message: Posted by: vaillant (May 1, 2004 10:40AM)
Can anyone remember the ending to Professor's Nightmare when the three ropes shown to be equal in length can be handed out for inspection?
Message: Posted by: dogwood86 (May 8, 2004 06:52PM)
Jon Allen in his video, "Spectators Don't Exist" has a neat ending in the spectators hand, as well as a great, completely natural false count.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (May 9, 2004 08:25PM)
How about combining Professor's Nightmare with "Mental Floss." You could swallow the long rope and ... NAHH, never mind.
Message: Posted by: James Adamson (May 28, 2004 07:03PM)
Vaillant,

Whit Haydn's Mongolian Pop Knot video states that it can be done (he finishes with the 3 ropes becoming one as far as the audience is concerned), but there is misdirection involved. You do NOT give the ropes out after the last restore, it is done with a little time delay: more like an afterthought. I can not tell you more without giving it away.

I didn't think it would work (it will) but lay audiences are not as critical as magicians, they see things differently.
Message: Posted by: Clifford the Red (Jul 11, 2004 11:26PM)
I favor tying the same size ropes all together so you can stretch them out and the audience can see they really are all the same size. Until you untie them that is. That is where you destroy their precious reality.
Message: Posted by: PaulGreen (Jul 16, 2004 10:13PM)
Dan Garrett has a great ending for the PN. He ties the three even-length ropes together. The rope revert to the three different lengths with the knots still tied. The knots are untied and the ropes are uneven.

Pat Conway has the Conway Rope Trick where the three even ropes are tied together and then "restored" into one long length. Very good!

Charlie Miller had a handling in "Magicana". The above plot is followed with a slightly different method.

Aldo Colombini has a great variation called PROFESSOR'S MATH. Here the rope is cut into three different lengths and then stretched into equal lengths. The ropes are tied together. The knots slide, disappear, and reappear. Finally the rope is restored to one long length. The rope may be tossed out to the audience. It is brilliant!

I will continue to do the PN as I have developed and explain on my IN THE TRENCHES DVD--The other resources listed above (along with Whit's fantastic MONGOLIAN POP KNOTS) will give you many variations. Choose what is best for you!

Keep making your magic better.

Regards,

Paul Green
Message: Posted by: Jessie Altamirano (Jul 18, 2004 11:03PM)
[quote]
On 2004-07-16 23:13, PaulGreen wrote:
Dan Garrett has a great ending for the PN. He ties the three even-length ropes together. The rope revert to the three different lengths with the knots still tied. The knots are untied and the ropes are uneven.
[/quote]
Paul, this sounds like Daryl's ending to his rope routine. I used this routine for my audition at the Magic Castle.

Jessie
Message: Posted by: RBerteig (Jul 19, 2004 02:03AM)
I use the tied in a circle ending myself. I have a subtlety that allows me to openly tie all three knots without any strange discrepancies.

I use reasonably long ropes, with the longest over eight feet long. This combined with Daryl's clever handling at the start seems to blow away all laymen's imagined explanations.

What's fun is the variety of reactions I get to the rope itself (a heavy, limp, yacht rope)... the ones you least expect are the ones that loop it around their own wrists or rub it on their cheeks and say "wow, nice rope"!
Message: Posted by: BradleyNott (Aug 6, 2004 05:52PM)
I didn't know they had rope on ships...

line? yes

rope? not that I am aware of...

:) cheap nautical joke
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Aug 6, 2004 08:02PM)
[quote]
On 2004-01-22 14:24, wmhegbli wrote:
Andini,

I must appologize if you got upset. I did not know that Mac King has published any of his material.

Bill :bawl:
[/quote]

I understand your point but I think, "Mac King lecture notes" should have tipped that these were something published and not stolen. But sometime we all miss stuff.
Message: Posted by: TrickyRicky (Aug 8, 2004 06:02AM)
I used the Pat Conway ending.All the ropes are tied together and then the knots apparently disappeared.
Richard Lyn
Message: Posted by: Werner G. Seitz (Aug 8, 2004 06:18AM)
[quote]
On 2004-08-08 07:02, Richard Lyn wrote:
I used the Pat Conway ending.All the ropes are tied together and then the knots apparently disappeared.
Richard Lyn
[/quote]Yes..
I don't know *it all*, but I used to do the Pat Conway ending -it was released by Ken Brooke way back with permission from Pat of course- and I know a couple of friends who still use it..
It can be handled in another way -instead of throwing the rope over ones shoulder - but it plays and handles well..

Thing is, I'm simply in love with the George Sands Sandsational, so I skipped the 3 ropes and just start with *one*..-ever since around 1984.

As I mentioned in another thread I finish/use the John Ramsay *ending*, where a short piece with a knot becomes *the* complete rope..
I even finish/use the complete sequence, where both ropes -at that time they are- are tied together at both ends, both knots vanish..aso. se the Ramsay routine..

I go right into the Ramsay sequence, right after a knot has appeared at one end of the rope after the knot 'jumping sequence' from middle to left end, and appearance of knot at the right end..
Explaining, *this is a magic knot*, I slide it to the middle of the rope (both rope ends are equal), untie it and retie with the remark, *NOW, here's a REAL knot*
Now, this real knot is the pop-off type and afterwards the other ropeends are tied too with a *knot*..
Study the Ramsay sequence.it is a great finish to any cut and restored rope routine..
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Aug 8, 2004 09:48PM)
I also just throw the ropes in the air at the end (ropes return to short, med, long). Perhaps the layman sees this as magic, I don't know. Had problems with the other endings including the one where the ropes turn into one.

Thanks Dan for:

"Bring your right hand about six inches above your left. Quickly move it straight down, touching the pinched ends together and simply releasing the RIGHT hand's pinched S end ONLY. The audience sees you toss the right end down transforming the rope into a long one. You now have the long rope in your left hand and the short and medium ropes in your right hand! I hope that is obtuse, yet clear"

I had been doing something similiar but your added flair makes it more believable.
Message: Posted by: isaacfawlkes (Sep 11, 2004 09:44PM)
I have used an ending for many years. I got it from a book but I don't remember the author.

After the 3 ropes are counted equal you place all of the ends in one hand. I snap my fingers and drop one set of ends. I appears that all three ropes simply melt back to the original length.
Message: Posted by: olivertwist (Sep 14, 2004 09:41PM)
I have Paul Green's, In the Trenches. He does a really nice handling of cut-and-restored followed by the Professor's Nightmare. He has lot's of good comedy byplay with the audience.


OliverTwist
Message: Posted by: Jessie Altamirano (Sep 15, 2004 09:15PM)
Paul Green's "In the Trenches" is a great dvd. Very nice rope routine.

BTW, on Sunday I perfomed Paul's "Coming Together" for some magicians at the Magic Castle. I did not know Mr. Green was in the crowd. He is a very nice man.

Jessie
Message: Posted by: Dario (Sep 16, 2004 03:12PM)
I can't remember where I have read something about do an effect like the "Simpathetic silks" but instead of six silks (three knoted and three free) six ropes (three of the same size and three of diferent sizes). You can figure the procedure. Sorry I can't credit or where is published...Perhaps is something of Mac King?

Darío
Message: Posted by: DanGarrett (Nov 24, 2004 06:36PM)
A little bit of Nightmare History for Jesse (and others).

The Professor's Nightmare was invented by Bob Carver of Macon, Georgia. He was inspired by Hen Fetsch. Carver's innovation was to use a third rope (the middle-sized rope) and develope the 'moves' (the 'stretch' and the 'false count') that are the crux of most PN routines to this day.

Daryl uses part of my routine in his (with permission) and he gives me credit in the instructions.

My routine is called Professor's Daydream. I've been doing it that way for 30 years. It won me a couple of awards. It is even reference in the book "The Magic Catalogue" by William Doerflinger.

The first lecture tour I did on the west coast (around 1976 or so), Daryl was the one who personally sponsored my lecture in San Jose, CA. That's where he first saw my routine.

Jesse, I hope your audition to the Castle went well. You chose good material! (:}D)

Dan Garrett
Message: Posted by: NJJ (Nov 29, 2004 10:23PM)
Two endings I have used....

Starting with a long piece of rope cut it into three EQUAL pieces. The pieces all change to DIFFERENT sizes and are then handed out. I find this is works better then the traditional equal to unequal and back again ending.

Useing rope m****** you can cleanly turn all three to one.
Message: Posted by: Daegs (Nov 30, 2004 05:58AM)
I like Whit's "Mongolian Pop-Knot" Routine.

during the course of the routine, 3 ropes of prof. nightmare length are tied together, then the knots pop-off and you are left with a long restored piece of rope.

best is that it is ungimicked and you get to really cut the rope(ie you use up a bunch of rope each time you do this)
Message: Posted by: Barrett_James (Aug 22, 2005 11:30AM)
I really like the entire routine of Full Circle (check all my other raves about it). The routine comes 'full circle' as it starts as 3-uneven ropes, goes into a professors nightmare routine, transitions beautifully into a ring and rope routine and completes the circle with 3-uneven ropes with EVERYTHING examinable.

I just cannot say enough nice things about it. And if your wondering, I have yet to receive any kickbacks for my postings (don't think I would take 'em anyways and ruin my amateur commentator status <grin>) Thanks Rick C and John G for a great routine anyways!!!
Message: Posted by: nucinud (Oct 14, 2005 12:05AM)
I like to toss out the ropes to audience. I let them inspect the ropes to see that they do not stretch or shrink. Sometimes I let them keep the ropes. Three different people wind up with the ropes. They get a souviner and the mystery deepens.
Message: Posted by: Robert Kohler (Oct 15, 2005 01:53PM)
Ditto on Full Circle - the most entertaining variation on PN I have seen.......
Message: Posted by: tntjr (Jan 13, 2006 03:32PM)
I know this is an old thread, but I'm looking for some Full Circle help. I like the idea of the routine. It's short, direct, resets easily, etc. I'm learning it from John Gustafero's video. My problem is that the patter, for lack of a better word, is non-sensical. That is, he introduces the ring and ropes as "my briefcase," which makes no sense, and there is no further embellishment on that assertion.

That briefcase aside, there is no motivation for any of the moves. At least not a coherent one. The physical part of the routine is a thing of beauty, and the idea of coming "full circle" back to where we started is very nice. But the patter is totally random.

Has anyone developed any alternate? For example, say you pull out the bundle of rope and ring and discuss the concept of "what goes around, comes around." Incorporate some bad "round" puns w/ the ring, and then....at the end of the routine, the "what goes around, comes around" tag line as you wind it up.

The physical part of the routine flows so nicely, I'd really like to have the verbal part do the same.

Any suggestions? Thanks.
Message: Posted by: joseph (Jan 13, 2006 03:58PM)
Now we have Fiber Optics from Richard Sanders..... also very good...
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Jan 13, 2006 06:12PM)
Thanks for the plug, Daegs. I developed my routine--The Mongolian Pop-Knot--on the streets of New York in the late 1960's, and it was first published in 1976. Some of the lines from my routine have become almost stock lines in rope routines. It is also a full circle routine.

The performer starts off with a very long piece of rope--about fifteen feet--and cuts it and restores it in an explanation of the trick.

After tying the magician's secret "Mongolian Pop-Knot," the knot pops off and the rope is restored. He then offers to teach the method again, and cuts the rope in three even pieces. At this point he stresses the importance of making the ropes equal in length, because otherwise you can't put them back together. Unfortunately, the ropes are suddenly all different sizes.

The performer then teaches the audience how to stretch the ropes back to equal using magic words, and the ropes are again tied together with Mongolian Pop Knots. The knots both pop off and thrown to the audience, and the rope is shown restored--back in its original condition as though nothing had ever happened. Except that there are three knots now out in the audience...

Everything is motivated and justified. It is not "here's a cute trick" and then "Now here is another cute trick." I think that maintaining a thematic arch and having a consistant justification for each step of the routine is what makes a long routine play well. Even the use of "Pixie Dust" is motivated and justified. There is no setup and there are no gimmicks. Just a piece of rope and a knot hidden in your pocket. There are several unique moves in the routine that I think would be useful in any rope routine--the display, the Alberti Count, the tossed out knot, etc.

I opened for Conway Twitty using this routine, and it played on a big outdoor stage to 8000 people. The long rope is essential to making it play big on a large stage.

A clip of my routine is at http://www.whithaydn.com/video_clips.htm

There you can see how much bigger the effect is on stage when using a long rope for the cut and restored and the Prof's Nightmare.
Message: Posted by: Jessie Altamirano (Jan 13, 2006 09:56PM)
Excellent Whit, I've seen it over ten times since you posted these clips on the Magic Castle forum. Great work.

Jessie
Message: Posted by: tntjr (Jan 14, 2006 02:32PM)
Outstanding routine, Whit. I've perused your site in the past and you represent everything that is good about magic. I will watch the routine again and will probably end up buying the manuscript. I like the ring and rope part of Full Circle though, and want to keep that. But no reason I can't combing bits and pieces from other routines. Thanks.

I guess most ring and rope routines I'm familiar with have patter issues. Most seem to just be narrations of what is happening. I also like Aldo Colombini's Ringing Around Too, but it comes with no patter at all. Daryl does a couple of nice rountine in his Fooler Dooler series, but, as much as I really like Daryl, these routines are largely narrations.

I'm a pretty creative guy, and know I can come up w/ something that fits me, but I need a direction to get started.

Anyone else?