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Topic: Packs Flat Looks Big On Stage
Message: Posted by: flickermaker (Jul 17, 2014 06:30PM)
Looking for magic that, as the magic catalogs used to boast "packs flat and looks big on stage". I travel a lot and with air freight and extra luggage fees on the rise, I am limited by the space I have to carry effects. I have a list started, but would like to hear what other working pros think. Open to all kinds of magic (my audineces range from children to adults and from US to foreign) so I am open to anything that is good, strong magic. Things that play big and are visual. Thanks for taking time to read this. And "yes" I have spent time searching before I posted this.
Message: Posted by: John (Jul 17, 2014 11:21PM)
Twenty First Century Silks
A good rope routine
Silk to Egg
Bill to Lemon
Selected IT effects (animation and/or levitation)
Ring and Rope
Torn and Restored Newspaper
Gypsy Thread
Message: Posted by: george1953 (Jul 18, 2014 06:16AM)
Shoe business is a nice comedy routine. And all you need to carry with you is a CD. As does the vanishing bandana.
Message: Posted by: jimhlou (Jul 18, 2014 03:28PM)
Temple screen with a 6' silk finish. Kalver's growing head illusion. Routine with 3 or 4 linking rings. The paper hat tear (see my Youtube video: search; UncleRedMagician). Anything with silks or balloons.

Jim
Message: Posted by: professorwhut (Jul 18, 2014 05:29PM)
Color changing hank
Half dyed hank
Three Card Joe
Professor's Nightmare
Message: Posted by: flickermaker (Jul 18, 2014 07:08PM)
All great suggestions.

Please keep 'em coming.

And--

Please don't be afraid to suggest older routines.

Thank you kindly.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jul 19, 2014 01:01AM)
Dan Harlan's the king of this genre. I have several of his DVD series from L&L publishing on packs flat plays big, and if you will check them out, I think you'll find a plethora of effects and acts for any performance venue you can think of. And he goes into amazing detail on making the props, packing, ditching and every detail you can think of. Dan's got it covered!

My second recommendation would also be from L&L, and that would be Michael Close's stand up show. Killer material!
Message: Posted by: jakeg (Jul 19, 2014 04:29AM)
Dukes Dye Version
Chase the Ace
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Jul 19, 2014 07:08AM)
Dear Flickermaker: "Flickermaker" has a Deutsch sound!!!

I suspect that you are relatively new as a performer. (Just guessing because you are a new "poster".) But, then, I am an old geezer (68 years in the biz) and I have less than 2,000 posts, so number of posts is not the only criteria. Anyhow, please don't be offended, if I attempt to explain a few things.

First, a few definitions of terms. ("Mein" college professor often said, "Before you start, define your terms!!!"

MAGIC doesn't "pack flat or play big". Magic can't be bought or owned. Magic only exists in the mind(s) of the spectator(s)! (Magic "happena" in the mind(s) if and when a talented magician has performed a trick, with showmanship.

A trick, like music, exists only while it is being performed. So, you can't buy or own a trick either.

An effect, is what the spectator sees--or thinks he sees.

A prop is a physical "thing" --a TT is a prop, A wand is a prop, A piece of rope, a deck of cards, a coin, a die box, or a Zig Zag is a prop. Magicians use props to help create magic in the mind(s) of the spectator(s).

Props can pack flat. Effects can play big.

Magic is not inherently entertaining. Entertainment doesn't "come" by the yard or by the pound! You, the magician, are responsible for making magic entertaining. --That's where the showmanship "comes in".

Everyone above has suggested good practical tricks to perform that can play big, props that pack small and light, and effects that can help "produce" good magic. --And, they have just "scratched the surface".

May I suggest that you read/study the TARBELL Course. It "contains" more tricks than you can use in five lifetimes! Read/study Ken Weber's "Maximum Entertainment", Dariel Fitzkee's "trilogy", Henning Nelms' "Magic & Showmanship", Ortiz's "Strong Magic".

The skills, the knowledge, that you "carry" in your head are much lighter than the props you carry in your hands.

I hope this has helped.

O
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jul 19, 2014 07:25AM)
I might add to that: If you are young and new to magic, the most invaluable thing you can do is study the HISTORY of magic. Research and learn about the great magicians of the past. Read about their acts and their illusions. It will broaden your perspective and help you to have a deep respect for the grand art of magic. It's a foundational endeavor that will pay off BIG TIME for you down the road, should you choose to make magic your career.
Message: Posted by: flickermaker (Jul 19, 2014 02:52PM)
Hi Dick--

Thank you for your post.

In reality I am a working professional magician for over 35 years.

I am aware of the information you have imparted (but am still grateful for your taking time to offer it). I am the kind of enetertainer that can land at a location where the airline has lost my luggage and after an hour in a store (like say a WalMart) could buy enough items to do 90 minutes of magic. In fact, I have just returned from two months of performances in Europe where that happened. They lost my luggage and I still had a week of shows and TV appearances where I used what I could scrounge up. Thankfully the airline finally forwarded my luggage the second week of shows.

The purpose of my post was to see what was out there that I do not know about. Effects I was not aware of.

My Post Read--

"I have a list started, but would like to hear what other working pros think. Open to all kinds of magic (my audiences range from children to adults and from US to foreign) so I am open to anything that is good, strong magic. Things that play big and are visual. "

I was wondering what effects (new and old) that working pros use. Or just effects they like. Effects that "pack flat and play big" Just like the Abbott's catalog used to boast. Yep, I am not too much younger than you.

And I have found out about new material (effects) I was unaware of.

For example--

"Shoe Business"

and

"Three Card Joe" (And I even know Joe) But didn't know about this effect.

But I was unaware of these effects and since have researched them.

I get from agents and bookers all the time - "You don't do such-n-such effect? Or this or that effect? Everyone does that!

I have lots of original material that I use. As well, I do "standards" in my style.

So you see, I was just (and still am looking for) great magic out there that plays for large audiences (most of mine are 300 - 5,000) so "plays big" and still travels well. And of course material that fits my presentation style or is something I can adapt to fit that style. Which I can only decide once I research the effect.

I hope I have explained myself.

Thank you again for your time and effort.

All my Best.

P.S. I had another account here with quite a few posts, but no longer have it. Thus the reason I have so few on this new account.
Message: Posted by: mathmagic (Jul 19, 2014 08:56PM)
Daffydoug, can you send me a private message with the name of the Michael close dvd with his stand up show?
Thanks.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jul 19, 2014 09:00PM)
I'll have to look it up, because it's been a couple years since I viewed it.
Message: Posted by: flickermaker (Jul 19, 2014 09:18PM)
Dear Daffy Doug--

I too would be interested in the Michael Close information. If you would care to share. I searched today - but was unable to determine what DVD you were speaking of.

Thank you for the suggestion.


Kindest regards.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jul 19, 2014 09:25PM)
I did a search on the L&L website, and it didn't even turn up. I will feel devastated if they discontinued it. I believe it was either "Close" or "Very, very close". And if memory serves, it was the second DVD. Actually, I used to have it on VHS tape.†

When I Google it, the only thing that turns up is Michael Close "workers." I'm trying to figure out if Michael brought the production †rights to the first ones and redid them or something.
I hope someone here †can enlighten me.

Anyway, suffice it to say, the stand-up act was pure genius. When it comes to totally smoking people's minds, in my opinion, Michael is ten notches above average. He reminds me of Slydini in that the psychology behind the effects is so strong, that no earthly spectator stands a chance.
Message: Posted by: flickermaker (Jul 20, 2014 12:17AM)
Thank you for the information.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jul 20, 2014 06:38AM)
I'll keep researching. Something is bound to turn up.
Message: Posted by: hugmagic (Jul 20, 2014 07:30AM)
A very good source of ideas that pack flat and such is Kid Stuff 5. Dick Oslund ( the same guy but darker hair then) wrote a section on the shows of lyceum magicians. Lots of good rundowns of their show. I used it a lot to fuel the brain when hunting for new routines. Some of the routines are listed in abbreviated fashion so you get the jest of what is done. Good source.

Richard
Message: Posted by: Imind (Jul 20, 2014 07:47AM)
Jumbo Bwave
Hanky Panky - Scott Alexander
Cereal Killer
Sheer Luck - Shawn Faraquar
Message: Posted by: flickermaker (Jul 20, 2014 09:00AM)
Thank you "Imind"

That is exactly the kind of material I am looking for.

And thank you Richard. I will check out the book.

I appreciate the suggestions.
Message: Posted by: Rainboguy (Jul 20, 2014 10:09AM)
Boy, that Dick Oslund guy sure gets around, doesn't he?

Rumor has it that he will be appearing (or is that DISappearing?) in Colon next week for Fab Magic's Magic Spectacular!
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Jul 20, 2014 12:13PM)
Hush Rainbow!!! (The Colon High School gym only seats 3,000!) and it's inside, so we can't put 'em on the straw!!! hee hee
Message: Posted by: bahamagician (Jul 21, 2014 04:25PM)
My entire show consists of material that fits the bill. I've also commercially released some of my material for this same scenario, but I won't advertise that here. IMHO, mentalism and hypnosis is perfect for this type of thing. When used properly you can utlize both of them for a family based audience.
Message: Posted by: flickermaker (Jul 21, 2014 08:20PM)
Thank you Bahamagician!
Message: Posted by: Inviso (Jul 25, 2014 08:20AM)
[quote]On Jul 19, 2014, Dick Oslund wrote:

May I suggest that you read/study the TARBELL Course. It "contains" more tricks than you can use in five lifetimes!
O [/quote]

Great advice...every time I glance through my set looking for something specific I always wonder why I keep wasting money on something "new" when so much great stuff is right there on my bookshelf.

Randy
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jul 25, 2014 09:23AM)
The Mark Wilson course in magic is also excellent. There's where I got my start.
Message: Posted by: flickermaker (Jul 28, 2014 11:37AM)
Thank you Doug.

You are correct - that is a great book. And it is on my resource book shelf when looking for new magic for a specific situation.

All of Mark's instructional books and DVDs are very nice. I directed and edited many of the instructional tape/DVD productions for Mark and Nani. I have worked on and off with Mark for over 20 years.

I appreciate the suggestion. But I was looking for effects on the market I may not know about. And I have found a few here on The Cafť. But I am "always looking" for new material. Magic that travels well since I often work in Europe and try to keep things small to keep down shipping costs.


Kindest regards.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jul 28, 2014 11:55AM)
You worked with Mark? He was my very FIRST inspiration when I was five years old. And he's a real sweet guy. I wrote him a letter and he took the time to write me a personal letter back.
Message: Posted by: flickermaker (Jul 28, 2014 02:21PM)
Yes I have worked with them since about 1991. Mark and Nani are two of my dearest freinds and have been magical mentors to me for a very long time. You are correct Mark and Nani are the kindest and sweetest folks I know. I am honored to call them my friends. If you get VANISH magazine you can see an article I wrote about them. It's in a back issue with Mark and Nani on the cover. I think it is Volume 8. http://www.vanishmagazine.com/
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jul 28, 2014 02:49PM)
Reading your post is making me very emotional. Holding back tears. You're a very lucky man, and I envy you. (In a nice way). If it wasn't for Mark I would have never even been interested in magic. The effect he had on a five year old boy was not only magical, but profound.
Message: Posted by: flickermaker (Jul 28, 2014 05:20PM)
"If it wasn't for Mark I would have never even been interested in magic. The effect he had on a five year old boy was not only magical, but profound."

I could not agree more.

Please go and read the article I wrote for VANISH. You will identify with it.

I can tell you that Mark and Nani are not as nice as you think they would be - they are nicer. I know - hard to believe, huh? But they are.

As well, both of their sons Mike and Greg are friends of mine and equally as nice as their parents.

I am honored to say that Nani tells me that she calls me here third son.

I would not be in magic without the initial effect Mark and Nani had on me watching them create miracles on TV.

As well, I have had so many magicians who came before me offer help and advice in any and every way imaginable. The list is long and the people all were so nice.

I have had a truly blessed life in magic.

We are so lucky to be in a business of such giving people.



Michael
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jul 28, 2014 05:32PM)
I would absolutely LOVE to read that article! Do you have a link to it that you can send
me?
Message: Posted by: flickermaker (Jul 28, 2014 06:30PM)
Here ya go.

http://www.vanishmagazine.com/

Not sure how to download back issues, but you can

I think the issue was Volume 8.

Mark and Nani are on the cover.



Best to you,



Michael
Message: Posted by: Rainboguy (Jul 31, 2014 09:41AM)
In my opinion, the top, Ultimate "Packs Flat Plays Big" effects are:

1. Duke's Dye Version (This is THE SLEEPER OF ABBOTT'S in my opinion.) Once you do this before a bunch of civilians, you'll know why I recommended it.
2. Bill Abbott's 5 Card Opener.....another CLASSIC and a GREAT trick...and doesn't have to be used as an opener.
3. Billy McComb's McCombical Prediction.....VERY Special and VERY entertaining (Just be sure and read the instructions carefully....there are a couple of GEMs there by Billy.
4. David Hoy's Tossed Out Deck........when used with an audience of several hundred people or more, and, preferably, people who do not know each other.
5. Gene Anderson's Newspaper Tear
6. Whit Haydn's Mongolian Pop Knot
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jul 31, 2014 11:43AM)
Wow! An amazing list! Some of those I haven't heard of, but I feel like a kid at Christmas time! I'm going to look those up! Time to hit the ol' Google button.

Posted: Jul 31, 2014 01:08 pm Holy smokes! I just looked up Dye Version. $Two hundred clams$!

I'm going to guess that the majority of that price tag is the 24 foot rainbow, silk streamer. Looks beautiful. High quality. Obviously not cheap.
Message: Posted by: flickermaker (Jul 31, 2014 01:10PM)
Thank you Rainboguy!
Message: Posted by: nicklakin (Aug 16, 2019 02:13AM)
I like Imindís suggestion of Cereal KilleróBut I may be biased. ;)
Message: Posted by: bobmag56 (Aug 16, 2019 07:51AM)
The U.F. Grant Temple Screen might be what you are looking for? It packs flat (except for the production items (like silks)), many magic sites sell this, low cost, looks great, is a fooler, easy to do, and suitable for all audiences.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Aug 16, 2019 09:27AM)
Been a long time! I hadnít heard of that effect in ages! Itís one of the old classics that has fallen into desuetude; disfavor.

But the old adage goes, ďWhatís old is new again.Ē
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Aug 16, 2019 10:09AM)
DOUG...The TEMPLE SCREEN is NOT an EFFECT. It is a PROP.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Aug 16, 2019 10:37AM)
I understand that. However the prop is used to CREATE effects, so itís kind of like splitting hairs, here.
Message: Posted by: thomasR (Aug 16, 2019 12:28PM)
The temple screen is a prop and an effect. No need to argue just for the sake of arguing.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Aug 17, 2019 07:33AM)
[quote]On Aug 16, 2019, thomasR wrote:
The temple screen is a prop and an effect. No need to argue just for the sake of arguing. [/quote]

I wasn't arguing. I was explaining a TECHNICAL term.

I suggest that you read, FITZKEE'S "The Trick Brain", published in 1945.

Fitzkee identifies and lists, 19 EFFECTS. The EFFECT is what the spectator perceives. (e.g.:production, vanish, transposition, transformation, levitation, animation, ETC, To date, no magician has been able to add even one EFFECT.

The Temple Screen, THE Merv Taylor Tambor, the Phantom Tube, are PROPS, THAT PRODUCE SOMETHING!
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Aug 17, 2019 07:50AM)
[quote]On Aug 16, 2019, daffydoug wrote:
I understand that. However the prop is used to CREATE effects, so itís kind of like splitting hairs, here. [/quote]

No. The Templw Screen was made to "create" ONE EFFECT (PRODUCTION) Your effectS. (use of the plural (effectS) is incorrect. I'm not a "hair splitter"!

At the top of the Cafť's "title page:, we read "MAGICIANS HELPING MAGICIANS". We are not helping when we provide MISinformation.
Message: Posted by: thomasR (Aug 17, 2019 01:58PM)
Now you are limiting a prop to one effect? Why? You could do a production, a substitution, transformation, or a vanish with the Screens.
Message: Posted by: Ray Pierce (Aug 17, 2019 07:39PM)
For me, the Temple Screens are similar to a square circle... it's not an effect, it's a method. As such I agree that it can create a wide variety of effects. I would agree that the Tambor is a much more limited method, nut not the Temple Screens. Let's not be limited by the past. Creativity is reaching beyond self limiting restrictions to get more out of certain methods than those before us.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Aug 18, 2019 09:59AM)
[quote]On Aug 17, 2019, thomasR wrote:
Now you are limiting a prop to one effect? Why? You could do a production, a substitutPRion, transformation, or a vanish with the Screens. [/quote]

That's not what I said!
There are props, sometimes called "utility" props, which can "do" more than ONE "THING". (i.e.: create different effects.) A change bag (YUK) can PRODUCE, TRANSFORM, OR VANISH SOMETHING. Years ago, I realized that ONE HIPPITY HOP RABBIT could be used in a TRANSFORMATION, INSTEAD OF TRANSPOSITION. (Fraidy Cat Rabbit).A FOO CAN can PRODUCE OR VANISH LIQUID, (Two Foo Cans, can be used for a TRANSPOSITION.

I just think that, while I'm not a fan of Grant's TEMPLE SCREEN, it's better used for a PRODUCTION. (de gustibus non est disputandum)
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Aug 18, 2019 10:21AM)
[quote]On Aug 17, 2019, Ray Pierce wrote:

For me, the Temple Screens are similar to a square circle... it's not an effect, it's a method. As such I agree that it can create a wide variety of effects. I would agree that the Tambor is a much more limited method, nut not the Temple Screg


No question Ray! The black art principle (method!) can be used in many effects (Remwmber "DOLINOFF AND THE RAYA SISTERS" It was a novelty acrobatic dance act, with Dolinoff (wearing black) helping the girls do "amazing moves"!

BTW...I used the TAMBOR for many years (after I had seen Harry B. do it in 1945! I considered it to be the BEST PRODUCTION PROPS EVER!!! (The load space almost equaled the inside of the drum!

I used the square circle as a teenager. It played stronger as a PRODUCTION, than a VANISH. I think that that was more the prop, than the principle! Remember, Harry Sr.'s "Dizzy Limit" (girl in the net.) Harry used black art to VANISH the "butterfly". I saw the show when the assistants hung the prop, backwards! Harry looked at it when the traveler opened, shook his head, and signaled for the traveler to closed. He came downstage, and, did a front cloth bit.
Message: Posted by: FrankFindley (Sep 2, 2019 01:03PM)
My number one suggestion for pack small, play big is controversial, the mouth coil. I have been doing a mouth coil routine since Dick Stoner suggested it to me as a teen. It has never failed. I have had newspaper articles where that was the main picture and even did it on local TV for an improptu telethon appearance when another act was late. Many pros do a version including:

Jeff McBride (which he cleverly combines into a paper ball over heads routine):

[youtube]SqWggEqvLqk?t=20m54s[/youtube]

Franz Harary:

[youtube]qC-DkXj75PY[/youtube]

Dick Stoner:

[youtube]Y3QpbjxI0BI[/youtube]

Robert Baxt, check out the WPR of his DVD:

[youtube]aoANRv9PHcA[/youtube]

Yes, I remain an unrepentent 35 year mouth coil user!

[img]http://libertyassociate.com/TheMagicCafe/MagicByLeonMouthCoil.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: robert_baxt (Sep 7, 2019 10:56PM)
FrankFindley thank you so much for posting the video of my mouth coil routine! The full routine with all the many, many, bits of business and the work on how I "blow" the coil out of my mouth that the Wizard Product Review guys gave 99% and the "Worker of the Week" award to, is available on my site at https://www.robertbaxt.com/mouthcoil-routine-dvd/
Message: Posted by: jimgerrish (Sep 7, 2019 11:27PM)
While they don't pack flat - more like they pack in a small box or bag - Inflatable Christmas (and Halloween etc.) Arches can be used for one person appearances/disappearances to full blown multi-assistant extravaganzas.

Milbourne Christopher presented his version of the "Three Graces" by Servais Leroy, calling it the "Sidi Bou Saide" mystery in his 1960 show, "Christopher's Wonders" at the Maidman Theatre in New York City, using a Modern Cabinet Illusion as the central prop. I was there! I saw it as a teen! It is the same theme used in Doug Hennings' "Things That Go Bump in the Night" in which he used the Million Dollar Mystery as the central prop. Well, if you have the assistants, you can do the same thing with an Inflatable Arch from a small box that goes Bump on the Floor and opens up to produce the exact same illusion with a fraction of the cost. It is described in The Wizards' Journal #40 - https://www.magicnook.com/WizJournal/WJ-40ALL.htm#ChristmasArchIllusion .