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Topic: Double Cross by Mark Southworth (From Magic Smith)
Message: Posted by: DTJK (Aug 1, 2014 03:57AM)
I have always loved Magic Smith's products and Chris Smith's customer service is just top notch. I use ignition and departure all the time for my shows and they never crease to disappoint both the spectators and even myself.

Here's a new release and it looks amazing.
http://www.magicsmith.com/masox.html

What's even more amazing is that it's SELF-CONTAINED.

From the video, I believe this works as a principle of a super sharpie. (Just a guess!) For those that know how super sharpie works I think you'll find this pretty ingenious!
And for ink transport spectator hands, I've always find it an issue to keep the "stamp" inked up and ready to go, and pocket management can be a little annoying especially when you don't want ink all over the insides of your pockets, looks like this is going to solve everything!

Anyone got this yet and care to give a review? Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Aug 1, 2014 09:50AM)
Looks nice but I don't think anyone has purchased it yet . The part that appears on the hand is the one I like the most .

But still , the prie puts me off a lot . SM sharpie is cheaper . Although they have differences . But if you say the method might be using some kind of mini stamp , then I might a well make a custom mini cross stamp from a bookstore for less than 10 bucks and attach it to my SM sharpie . How about that ?

:)
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Aug 2, 2014 12:17PM)
I took the plunge without any reviews which is something I usually never do. But I guess it's my turn to take one for the team.

I love this type of effect and if it's truly a self-contained unit I'll be very happy with it. I'll let you know.
Message: Posted by: DTJK (Aug 2, 2014 03:51PM)
[quote]On Aug 1, 2014, Magician560 wrote:
Looks nice but I don't think anyone has purchased it yet . The part that appears on the hand is the one I like the most .

But still , the prie puts me off a lot . SM sharpie is cheaper . Although they have differences . But if you say the method might be using some kind of mini stamp , then I might a well make a custom mini cross stamp from a bookstore for less than 10 bucks and attach it to my SM sharpie . How about that ?

:) [/quote]

Anyway hi Hong Yu.

Custom X stamp from bookstore?

Let me ask you a few questions, in the point of a working environment.
- How are you going to STORE that cross stamp? In 1 pocket? Pocket space is invaluable for a working magician.
- How are you going to make sure that the X stamp is always wet and INKED and ready to imprint on the spectator's hand? Are you going to store it in some ziplock bag to keep it from drying up, and risk making a mess out of your pocket?
- Attach it to the SM sharpie? I'm not sure if you have any idea what you're talking.. I don't own Double Cross, but looking at the video, the gimmick (similiar to super sharpie) is right in front of the spectator's very nose, nothing to palm, nothing to hide, nothing to put away into the pocket, nothing to take out.
- You said that the price puts you off, but you're willing to spend $10 to get a X stamp from a bookstore and another $5 to get a ink pad, and you have to carry 2 extra nonsense around when you perform. I think, you're better off topping up the balance to get double cross.

Speaking of which, super sharpie is ingenious btw. personally I think its the best swarmi around, every action is justifiable from start to end, and its EASY to write as well! I'm pretty sure I have a good idea on how double cross sharpie works, I just hope that the routine and handlings provided is justifiable for every single move from start to end.

Just waiting for a couple of reviews before I take the plunge! All my life I've been searching to the answer to "ink" the spectator!
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Aug 2, 2014 08:50PM)
[quote]On Aug 3, 2014, DTJK wrote:
[quote]On Aug 1, 2014, Magician560 wrote:
Looks nice but I don't think anyone has purchased it yet . The part that appears on the hand is the one I like the most .

But still , the prie puts me off a lot . SM sharpie is cheaper . Although they have differences . But if you say the method might be using some kind of mini stamp , then I might a well make a custom mini cross stamp from a bookstore for less than 10 bucks and attach it to my SM sharpie . How about that ?

:) [/quote]

Let me ask you a few questions, in the point of a working environment.
- How are you going to STORE that cross stamp? In 1 pocket? Pocket space is invaluable for a working magician.
- How are you going to make sure that the X stamp is always wet and INKED and ready to imprint on the spectator's hand? Are you going to store it in some ziplock bag to keep it from drying up, and risk making a mess out of your pocket?
- Attach it to the SM sharpie? I'm not sure if you have any idea what you're talking.. I don't own Double Cross, but looking at the video, the gimmick (similiar to super sharpie) is right in front of the spectator's very nose, nothing to palm, nothing to hide, nothing to put away into the pocket, nothing to take out.
- You said that the price puts you off, but you're willing to spend $10 to get a X stamp from a bookstore and another $5 to get a ink pad, and you have to carry 2 extra nonsense around when you perform. I think, you're better off topping up the balance to get double cross.

Speaking of which, super sharpie is ingenious btw. personally I think its the best swarmi around, every action is justifiable from start to end, and its EASY to write as well! I'm pretty sure I have a good idea on how double cross sharpie works, I just hope that the routine and handlings provided is justifiable for every single move from start to end.

Just waiting for a couple of reviews before I take the plunge! All my life I've been searching to the answer to "ink" the spectator! [/quote]

Hahaha true :) . Ok then . I will wait for a few reviews before concluding on anything .
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Aug 2, 2014 09:38PM)
Anyways I just remembered that in the Mentalism Tagged routine , they taught a method of how to apply any word on the spectator's band . So I believe combining that and SM sharpie will create the same effect as the Double Cross . Although it is not self contained in a sharpie like you said , but I believe I can save up the 60 dollars and that will be the thing I care . The method is not important . So long as I can achieve the same ending . Well yes I like the effect and it is cool , but no I am not going to perform it often even if I have it . It is good performing to only a small group of ppl ( like 2-4 ? ) but I believe it is no longer good performing to 10 ppl . And by the way I often perform to a big group rather to just a small group . Mainly because I think performing to a big group like around a table , some spectator will have trouble seeing the small cross that has appeared on the hand of another spectator at the opposite end of the table . :) Anyways you seem to be really interested in this . But I don't think there will be many reviews of this product coming any time soon . I like magic smith a lot and all their products but I just don think this product fits my style . Well if it fits yours then good for you :) you can go and get one anytime . I will look forward to your review about it if you decide to buy one .
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Aug 3, 2014 10:58AM)
Get ready for a controversial scoop folks!

1. Magicsmith releases Double Cross

http://www.magicsmith.com/masox.html

2. Gary Jones says it's stolen from him and Mark Bendell. Check out Gary's controversial quote from facebook here...

http://www.magicbunny.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=57199

I hope all involved manage to resolve this without damaging reputations.
Scotland - proud hosts of the 2014 Commonwealth Games
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Aug 3, 2014 12:00PM)
Mike's demolition of Gary's claim on the Bunny thread is quite interesting.

What are your thoughts on that, Jamie?
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Aug 3, 2014 12:04PM)
Don't know, can't think. I only have half a brain cell. I exhausted that finding this particular scoop.
Message: Posted by: Axel (Aug 3, 2014 12:44PM)
[quote]On Aug 3, 2014, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
Don't know, can't think. I only have half a brain cell. I exhausted that finding this particular scoop. [/quote]

Yup. But that's old news as well.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Aug 3, 2014 12:46PM)
[quote]On Aug 3, 2014, Axel wrote:
[quote]On Aug 3, 2014, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
Don't know, can't think. I only have half a brain cell. I exhausted that finding this particular scoop. [/quote]

Yup. But that's old news as well. [/quote]
If I could figure out what you just said I would probably find it funny.
Message: Posted by: Axel (Aug 3, 2014 01:02PM)
No. You wouldn't.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Aug 3, 2014 02:26PM)
Reed mclintock's stars and hexes should be credited/mentioned - at least that did something interesting/different with cleaner/less fiddly method than the old school approach...
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Aug 3, 2014 02:50PM)
How about Rocco's Stampede system. That was even better.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Aug 3, 2014 03:02PM)
Stars and hexes came first I believe...
Message: Posted by: gjmagic (Aug 3, 2014 04:28PM)
Mr Jay got it completely wrong, the issue isn't about transferring a mark onto a spectator's hand (this is as old as magic) it's about creating a gimmick that would do both, vanish a mark from the magician's hand and it reappearing on a spectator's hand, all being self-contained and built into one Sharpie!

This matter is all under hand so there's no need for any other/more stirring!

Gary.
Message: Posted by: DTJK (Aug 4, 2014 01:22AM)
[quote]On Aug 3, 2014, gjmagic wrote:
Mr Jay got it completely wrong, the issue isn't about transferring a mark onto a spectator's hand (this is as old as magic) it's about creating a gimmick that would do both, vanish a mark from the magician's hand and it reappearing on a spectator's hand, all being self-contained and built into one Sharpie!

This matter is all under hand so there's no need for any other/more stirring!

Gary. [/quote]

I completely agree. The idea has been around for a long time, but this gimmick, being completely self contained, changes everything.

Frankly, ideas without actions are nothing. You can have a notebook with 2000 ideas inside but none is taken into action. All you have are drawings and notes. Then one day, you see it released in the market. Do you have the rights to run mummy and show her your notebook and say XX stole your idea?

But anyway. That's off topic. For double cross, I believe the gimmick is the game changer. This kind of effects have been around for so long.
Message: Posted by: DTJK (Aug 4, 2014 01:24AM)
[quote]On Aug 3, 2014, IAIN wrote:
Reed mclintock's stars and hexes should be credited/mentioned - at least that did something interesting/different with cleaner/less fiddly method than the old school approach... [/quote]

Stars and hexes? That's completely a waste of my money from what I remember.

Alcohol swabs and zip lock bags... Gosh.
Message: Posted by: gjmagic (Aug 4, 2014 03:01AM)
[quote]On Aug 4, 2014, DTJK wrote:
[quote]On Aug 3, 2014, gjmagic wrote:
Mr Jay got it completely wrong, the issue isn't about transferring a mark onto a spectator's hand (this is as old as magic) it's about creating a gimmick that would do both, vanish a mark from the magician's hand and it reappearing on a spectator's hand, all being self-contained and built into one Sharpie!

This matter is all under hand so there's no need for any other/more stirring!

Gary. [/quote]

I completely agree. The idea has been around for a long time, but this gimmick, being completely self contained, changes everything.

Frankly, ideas without actions are nothing. You can have a notebook with 2000 ideas inside but none is taken into action. All you have are drawings and notes. Then one day, you see it released in the market. Do you have the rights to run mummy and show her your notebook and say XX stole your idea?

But anyway. That's off topic. For double cross, I believe the gimmick is the game changer. This kind of effects have been around for so long. [/quote]

Runnung to mummy, I like that! That's not what happened, I wish it was that simple. I show a 'friend' an idea I have, they tell you they know a person who can make it, nothing happens so you put it on the back burner, further down the line your 'friend' releases it as his own, you find out by other friends you also shared said idea with that it's on the market by that 'friend', trust me mate, this isn't running to mummy, I don't do that!

Thanks for your concern though, best that to keep to the subject though, this is a brilliantly piece of kit!
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Aug 5, 2014 07:46AM)
[quote]Mr Jay got it completely wrong, the issue isn't about transferring a mark onto a spectator's hand (this is as old as magic) it's about creating a gimmick that would do both, vanish a mark from the magician's hand and it reappearing on a spectator's hand, all being self-contained and built into one Sharpie![/quote]

I didn't get it wrong, at all. I am fully aware of the fact that this latest slapping match by the 'pros' is about the Sharpie and not about the trick. You've got to read between the lines to fully understand my point, I guess. I'm calling this whole thing laughable because these 'pros' believe they've done something special by making a gaffed Sharpie for a trick that simply didn't need any help from anyone.

Now I don't know the exact figure because there is so much horse manure being marketed these days, but I'll go out on a limb and say that if you carried all the Sharpies necessary for all these new uses for them, you'd have 35 Sharpies on your person at all times.

If a 'pro' wants to create a special Sharpie for any reason, any reason at all, it should be the Everything Sharpie - the Sharpie that allows you to eliminate those 35 Sharpies so that all you need to carry is the one Sharpie to do your 35 special Sharpie tricks. Now [u][i][b]THAT[/b][/i][/u] would be an original idea. But this whole argument over territory on who owns the rights to a Sharpie that is used for one trick, that one trick being a trick that's been around since time out of mind, is risible.

Or maybe it's just plain pathetic. I guess it's a matter of whether you want to laugh or cry over the state of 'professional' magic these days.

I fully agree that stealing someone's idea is sleazy, but when that idea is just more stuff that will find its way quickly into the bottom drawer then it just becomes a matter of absurdity.

Mike.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Aug 5, 2014 08:15AM)
Michael

Have you ever had an idea stolen? I don't think so. If you did you'd understand how much it hurts.

Your point of view comes across as naive at best, ignorant at worst.

Maybe you'd be better off staying with the Bunnies rather than trying to rub shoulders with the Magical Elite here.

Cheers

J-Ferg
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Aug 5, 2014 08:33AM)
I'm concerned with the idea that's been stolen and not the theft itself (the theft itself only makes this whole thing all the more absurd). Personally, if I had an idea that was destined to wind up in magicians' bottom drawers, I would welcome someone stealing it and putting their name to it rather than mine.

And don't kid yourself - this is going to wind up in the bottom drawer. Nothing creative has been added to the ashes on hand trick. The only thing being added to an already perfect trick is that now you'll need to carry your special Sharpie if you want to do the trick. If you're an amateur, this means that you'll show it to a few people and then have no more use for it. If you're a pro, you'll use it until the next latest and greatest Sharpie trick comes out and, lacking the pocket space for yet another Sharpie, you'll have no more use for it.

Assuming that as a pro you've decided that this is the last Sharpie you'll ever need or use, it will eventually run out of ink and you'll have to decide whether you want to pay the price for a brand new one or just buy the latest and greatest because you want something new and fresh in your act. Out of 100 pros buying the thing, maybe 5 of them will actually continue to use this item.

But the bottom line is that you can still perform this trick without the special Sharpie. Adding the Sharpie gives you nothing more than you had before its creation - nothing. All that has been done by adding this Sharpie is the requirement that you carry it on your person. It doesn't make the trick better - it's still the same trick. It doesn't make the trick easier - you still have to do everything that is required in the original. This Sharpie is unneeded and much of a redundancy.

Ultimately, smart performers will realize that they don't need this Sharpie to do that trick and carry a different Sharpie (whether trick or normal) for simple lack of pocket space. To the bottom drawer it will go.

Please understand that I'm not suggesting that this special Sharpie isn't clever, I'm just saying that, in the general scheme of things, it's superfluous.

And if the 'magic elite' can't understand that, then they ain't so elite.

Mike.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Aug 5, 2014 11:14AM)
That's a good response Michael.

I'm now looking forward to Gary's reply.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Aug 5, 2014 11:29AM)
Well said Michael.
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (Aug 5, 2014 11:54AM)
What about the fact that your spectator now has an 'X' written in permanent marker on his/her hand? Seems less than ideal and certainly limits when you could use this over the standard ashes on palm.
Message: Posted by: Paul S Wingham (Aug 5, 2014 12:10PM)
The world of magic would be pretty dull if we only got things we need pr at least, new releases would be limited. The ashes on the hand trick is great although in a world where smoking becomes less and less tolerated, I think it's time is nearly up. Lipstick is fine but I bet women in particular have no doubt ended up with a wayward bit of lipstick somewhere before, which to an extent doesn't help sell its impossibility. I think the idea of a permanent defined mark (not a smudge) appearing is a good step forward or at least a good idea for the right occasion. By extension; I can see some value to having one unit that contains what you need. True; there are lots of sharpie tricks out there but I only own one, which is remarkable. Personally; I liked it.

What I don't like is all the other business and I'm pleased to hear gary is getting it sorted as he strikes me as a good guy.
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Aug 5, 2014 12:29PM)
You are absolutely correct, Mr. Wingham (and thank you to the members, above, who understand the intent of what I'm saying).

But let's look at some facts that have come out:

First, Gary Jones wants to expose the fact that he has been ripped off. Mission accomplished.

Second, if you buy this item, then you are giving money to someone who has ripped off Mr. Jones. Do you really want to do that?

Third, you don't need this Sharpie to perform this effect with just as much power as you can without it. Worried about cigarettes? How about a fireplace. That contains ashes and with a modicum of creativity, it does the job. Or you can perform a center tear where you burn the paper...Hey! Ashes. An added effect to your garden variety center tear, no special Sharpie required.

You worry about the world of magic becoming dull. I worry about the world of magic becoming static - everyone doing the same stuff. Here's an idea: Be creative. This trick is one that has been around for over a century, so why not take it and make it something on your own, something creatively you, rather than buying a $60.00 item that makes you the same as everyone else who has bought that $60.00 item (not to mention that it is a stolen idea)?

The only thing that will make magic dull is when we all have to buy stuff created by people other than ourselves.

Mike.
Message: Posted by: CarlMcCoy (Aug 5, 2014 01:17PM)
You don't like it then?
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Aug 5, 2014 01:40PM)
[quote]On Aug 5, 2014, Michael Jay wrote:
You are absolutely correct, Mr. Wingham (and thank you to the members, above, who understand the intent of what I'm saying).

But let's look at some facts that have come out:

First, Gary Jones wants to expose the fact that he has been ripped off. Mission accomplished.

Second, if you buy this item, then you are giving money to someone who has ripped off Mr. Jones. Do you really want to do that?

Third, you don't need this Sharpie to perform this effect with just as much power as you can without it. Worried about cigarettes? How about a fireplace. That contains ashes and with a modicum of creativity, it does the job. Or you can perform a center tear where you burn the paper...Hey! Ashes. An added effect to your garden variety center tear, no special Sharpie required.

You worry about the world of magic becoming dull. I worry about the world of magic becoming static - everyone doing the same stuff. Here's an idea: Be creative. This trick is one that has been around for over a century, so why not take it and make it something on your own, something creatively you, rather than buying a $60.00 item that makes you the same as everyone else who has bought that $60.00 item (not to mention that it is a stolen idea)?

The only thing that will make magic dull is when we all have to buy stuff created by people other than ourselves.

Mike. [/quote]

You don't need to be Jim Steinmeyer to realize it's easier to smudge some ashes on someone as opposed to drawing an X on them. Your audience knows this too.

And the idea that everyone who buys a trick has an identical presentation is nonsense.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Aug 5, 2014 01:48PM)
Guys, Gary will be along shortly to give us an update and his point of view on the comments above.

At first I thought Michael Jay was out of order in terms of what he said. As he articulated his point of view further I found myself agreeing with a lot of his points.

When I hear Gary's response I will make my mind up about how I feel, both about the trick and the claims of theft.

Until then I will wait patiently.

I suggest you all do the same.
Message: Posted by: Paul S Wingham (Aug 5, 2014 01:58PM)
Fair comments Michael. I don't entirely disagree. Firstly though, I most definitely wouldn't buy this until all the other stuff is resolved. I've never met Gary Jones, but our paths cross frequently online, and I have heard nothing to suggest he is anything other than a good chap. Secondly, when I said the magic world would be dull I probably didn't put it well. My point was that 99% of what comes out is derivative and in most instances only incrementally improves the original concept (at best). If these sorts of increments weren't released, then perhaps some of the leaps forward wouldn't happen. I still think there is a place for things that aren't a leap forward. I say "I think" but I actually mean; there is a place for them, because people buy them and wrongly or rightly, magic is sadly a commercial enterprise for many.

So I guess what I am saying in a rambling way, is you are correct; I don't need this. To be honest, I may not ever buy it, I mean it's not cheap. but then again, I don't really need the next iphone or yet another book, but I'm sure if I don't buy it, someone else will.
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Aug 5, 2014 05:06PM)
[quote]You don't need to be Jim Steinmeyer to realize it's easier to smudge some ashes on someone as opposed to drawing an X on them. Your audience knows this too.[/quote]

When performed properly, the spectator never even realizes that you touched them. From their perspective, it's fully impossible that the mark could even be there, whether an x from a Sharpie, a smudge of ashes, or even a freshly picked booger.

From the advertising blurb for Double Cross:

[b]"You're so far ahead the spectators will never remember you coming near them or even touching them."[/b]

That is precisely how the original is handled and specifically what makes this trick so very powerful.

Then again, you probably DO need to be Jim Steinmeyer to understand that.

Mike.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Aug 5, 2014 05:18PM)
Nice one Mike.

You just took Magicsquared's argument to low post, drop stepped it and then slam dunked the Spalding for an easy two.

Boomshakalaka.
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Aug 5, 2014 05:19PM)
[quote]On Aug 5, 2014, Michael Jay wrote:
[quote]You don't need to be Jim Steinmeyer to realize it's easier to smudge some ashes on someone as opposed to drawing an X on them. Your audience knows this too.[/quote]

When performed properly, the spectator never even realizes that you touched them. From their perspective, it's fully impossible that the mark could even be there, whether an x from a Sharpie, a smudge of ashes, or even a freshly picked booger.

From the advertising blurb for Double Cross:

[b]"You're so far ahead the spectators will never remember you coming near them or even touching them."[/b]

That is precisely how the original is handled and specifically what makes this trick so very powerful.

Then again, you probably DO need to be Jim Steinmeyer to understand that.

Mike. [/quote]

Yeah, I get it, but one is clearly more impossible than the other. Certainly you've gotten a smudge on yourself without remembering how, but it's unlikely someone wrote an X on your hand without you noticing. Again, this is something a layman intuitively knows. And, for me, I can find many more justifications for using an X. And it doesn't limit me to areas with cigarettes or ashtrays. I know you suggested a fireplace would be a good alternative, but really? "Excuse me while I duck into this fireplace before my next routine..." I mean perhaps [i]someone[/i] would say "Why's Pete fiddling around with the fireplace in August?" Or do you just wait until December rolls around and you're about to light a fire? That's convenient.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Aug 5, 2014 05:56PM)
No, you merely blaze up a fine cigar and the rest is easy ;)
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Aug 5, 2014 06:07PM)
I do it with the soot from the end of my crack pipe.

On one of David Acer's videos he does it with pool cue chalk and he has a good routine with it. The only problem is, if you do it in a pool hall where it's organic, your spectator may assume they could have gotten chalk on their hand at some point earlier. And if you do it outside of the pool hall, then you're the guy who carries around pool cue chalk for no reason.
Message: Posted by: Stucky (Aug 5, 2014 06:11PM)
[quote]I worry about the world of magic becoming static - everyone doing the same stuff.[/quote]

Too late.
Message: Posted by: gjmagic (Aug 5, 2014 06:33PM)
Thank you for everyone's input on this.......my idea wasn't just an X, it was also playing cards, numbers and anything else that would fit onto the gimmick.

As for the the other part of this, Magic Smith had no knowledge of my involvement in this idea so no blame there, and, I'm going to put this down to experience, I have bigger issues in life to deal with and it's only a trick!

I'm done now, but thank you for expressing your opinions, time to finish my beer :-)

Regards,

Gary.
Message: Posted by: Paul S Wingham (Aug 6, 2014 01:59AM)
That's the attitude. Life is way way way too short to let magic ever get you down.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Aug 6, 2014 03:16AM)
I agree. Life is way too short.

I'm surprised Mark Southworth hasn't been along yet to give us his point of view.

Let's hope we see him soon.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Aug 6, 2014 03:29AM)
I wonder if this will be available in the UK in the near future. I'd love to see how the dirty work is accomplished. It's too expensive to chuck in the bottom drawer IMO.
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Aug 6, 2014 09:30AM)
[quote]On Aug 5, 2014, Magicsquared wrote:
Yeah, I get it, but one is clearly more impossible than the other. Certainly you've gotten a smudge on yourself without remembering how, but it's unlikely someone wrote an X on your hand without you noticing. Again, this is something a layman intuitively knows. And, for me, I can find many more justifications for using an X. And it doesn't limit me to areas with cigarettes or ashtrays. I know you suggested a fireplace would be a good alternative, but really? "Excuse me while I duck into this fireplace before my next routine..." I mean perhaps [i]someone[/i] would say "Why's Pete fiddling around with the fireplace in August?" Or do you just wait until December rolls around and you're about to light a fire? That's convenient. [/quote]

What a layman intuitively knows? The layman intuitively knows that which you allow them to. Fitzkee said it better than I ever could:

[list][list][list]"[i]The true skill of the magician is in the skill he exhibits in influencing the spectator's mind. This is not a thing of mechanics. It is not a thing of digital dexterity. It is entirely a thing of psychological attack. It is completely a thing of controlling the spectator's thinking. Control of the perceptive faculties has nothing whatever to do with it. Convincingly interpreting, to the spectator, what the senses bring to him, in such a way that the magician's objectives are accomplished, is the true skill of the skilled magician.[/i]

"So I must insist again: Shell bottles do not constitute any part of the true secrets of magic. Neither do folding bird cages. Neither do billiard ball shells. Nor Svengali packs. Nor forcing decks. Nor flap slates. Nor pulled threads. Nor folding flowers. Nor any apparatus of any kind.

"[i]The real secrets of magic are those whereby the magician is able to influence the mind of the spectator, even in the face of that spectator's definite knowledge that the magician is absolutely unable to do what that spectator ultimately must admit he does do.[/i]

"Here [i]is[/i] a secret!

"This skilled magician is an adept at disguise and attention control. He employs physical disguise with his apparatus. He employs psychological disguise-simulation, dissimulation, maneuver, ruse, suggestion and inducement. He exercises absolute control over the attention of his spectator by forestalling it, by catching it relaxed, by dulling it, by scattering it, by diverting it, by distracting it, and by openly moving it away.

"He cleverly, skillfully and dexterously mixes the true with the false. With equal facility he convincingly interprets matters to accomplish his own ends. He contrives to so influence the things the spectator perceives that the latter is aware of them [i]as the magician desires[/i]. All is built upon an unshakable foundation of naturalness, plausibility and conviction.

"Here is real skill! Here are genuine secrets!"

- [i]Dariel Fitzkee[/i] -[/list][/list][/list]

Your way is limited to your Sharpie - if you don't have it, you can't do the trick. I, however, can do it anywhere, anytime. But then again, I have a modicum of creativity. I'm sorry that you don't.

Mike.
Message: Posted by: Kaliix (Aug 6, 2014 07:55PM)
First, hey great Fitzkee quote.

Second, you cannot do "the trick" anytime anywhere. You can do a variation of the trick but it will not involve the startling disappearance of the ink from the magicians hand or the appearance of a drawing on the spectators. Now that is not to take anything away from the ashes/lipstick/whatever version one can do impromptu. It is a great trick.

But this particular trick involves some differences that are key to enhancing the effect. The disappearance of what is seemingly permanent ink is stronger than simply rubbing away a substance on ones hand. Most people have gotten ink on their hand and understand the permanence of that state. It's disappearance is a strong effect in itself. Further, the appearance of a hand drawn symbol is stronger than ashes appearing on the spectators palm. Smart spectators will be deduce that the magician sneaked the substance in place. Even if they don't know how, they have a solution to hold on to and that is all that matters (particularly because they are right). But a hand drawn ink symbol is different and more powerful as it is writing and no solution is readily apparent. It leads to a path which has a much greater chance of being a dead end. IMHO, your mileage may vary...

[quote]On Aug 6, 2014, Michael Jay wrote:

Your way is limited to your Sharpie - if you don't have it, you can't do the trick. I, however, can do it anywhere, anytime. But then again, I have a modicum of creativity. I'm sorry that you don't.

Mike. [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Aug 6, 2014 08:01PM)
You're right. Smart spectators will know that you somehow sneaked it onto their hand, as opposed to the Sharpie where they will believe that it's real magic.

Yep, you're right. My bad.

Mike.
Message: Posted by: simon hughes (Aug 6, 2014 08:25PM)
I miss Niggler.
Message: Posted by: Kaliix (Aug 6, 2014 08:38PM)
Who said anything about real magic? I believe that I stated " a hand drawn ink symbol is different and more powerful as it is writing and no solution is readily apparent. It leads to a path which has a much greater chance of being a dead end."

I'm sorry you missed the point about there being a big difference between an ash smudge and a hand drawn symbol, with one having an obvious and correct solution, while the other one being much less obvious and more convincing but I appreciate you at least admitting I was right.

Thanks.


[quote]On Aug 6, 2014, Michael Jay wrote:
You're right. Smart spectators will know that you somehow sneaked it onto their hand, as opposed to the Sharpie where they will believe that it's real magic.

Yep, you're right. My bad.

Mike. [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Aug 6, 2014 09:00PM)
Michael, you need to re-read your Fitzkee. Fitzkee never recommended underestimating spectator's intelligence, but god knows you're not unique in making that mistake around here.

The layman doesn't "intuitively know that which you allow them to." In fact, that's the exact opposite of what "intuitively" means. There is knowledge that a spectator brings to an effect.

Let's pretend it wasn't a magic trick. What would you find more puzzling. You're getting ready for bed at night and you find a grey smudge on your palm OR you find an X written on your palm. That's all I'm saying; one is inherently more impossible. To imply that a spectator would only understand that if you "allowed" them to is embarrassing.

That's not to say a better performer couldn't get more mileage out of the ashes trick. It's only to say that the greater impossibility of this might appeal to some people, or the convenience of it, or perhaps they see greater presentational possibilities.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Aug 7, 2014 03:43AM)
Have you received yours yet Magicsquared? What's the verdict?
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Aug 7, 2014 03:45AM)
Considering it was a sellout at a recent magic convention I'm surprised there's no reviews yet.
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Aug 7, 2014 03:54AM)
[quote]On Aug 7, 2014, pegasus wrote:
Have you received yours yet Magicsquared? What's the verdict? [/quote]

I'm in LA for work and it's in my PO Box in NYC. As soon as I get back there I'll give an initial review.
Message: Posted by: CarlMcCoy (Aug 7, 2014 03:57AM)
[quote]On Aug 7, 2014, Michael Jay wrote:
You're right. Smart spectators will know that you somehow sneaked it onto their hand, as opposed to the Sharpie where they will believe that it's real magic.

Yep, you're right. My bad.

Mike. [/quote]

You really can't stop trying to sound important, can you?
You're really not doing yourself any favours...to me it seems that all this posturing is simply to give yourself a podium from which it speak. You're doing the same on your forum too, but then from what I've read there, that seems to be par for the course.

Bit sad if you ask me.

But you didn't...so whatever.
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Aug 7, 2014 05:00AM)
Coming back to this topic again ... Just clarifying , is the ink refillable ?
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Aug 7, 2014 05:00AM)
I presume no special ink is involved here . :)
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Aug 8, 2014 04:58PM)
Okay, here's the deal. I got mine today but have not performed it yet. Here are my initial thoughts.

You get the sharpie and a link to a 10 minute download (and something else you need for the effect).

The download covers everything you need to get started.

The Sharpie definitely seems to be a pretty good quality item, there's a lot going on in this little pen.

I think if you like the effect, then you will be happy with the construction of the item.

My concern is how long this this is going to last. And that's a question I can't answer right now. If this is something I can use fairly regularly for a couple of years, then I think the price is fair. However if it's going to be "used up" in three months, then I think the price is too high.
Message: Posted by: PendletonThe3rd (Aug 8, 2014 05:29PM)
Just got this too and it is brilliant! Does everything it said it would. Completely self contained, practical, simple, and you can have it in your pocket ready to go at any time with no set up. I love that about this.

Prop is great, very well thought out. And indeed diabolical!

The video instructions (via a link), are to the point, no overly long drawn out explanations. Yet, the routine is so elegant in the way everything is thought out. All the dirty work is pretty much baked into the routine with natural movements, and so simple to do, the audience wont see it coming or know how you did it.

The video even shares thoughts on repeating the effect in a different manner to change up the element of surprise. I like that!

Once again, another great product from MagicSmith. I always have departure and ignition on me and this will be no exception.

If I had to be nit picky, I would have preferred that the sharpie be a bit more accurate to the real thing in a certain aesthetic regard. At the risk of exposure, I wont say what it is about it, aesthetically, but to be fair, I could tell this from watching the demo and purchased it anyway. So not a huge deal, but it seems as though they could have made it to the actual aesthetic design of a Sharpie Fine Point and still have the Double Cross Sharpie do its thing. For all I know, though, maybe the design is an actual Sharpie one and I'm just not familiar with it?

Anyway, that's my only nit pick.

Other than that, hopefully the prop will last and once it eventually drys up, hopefully MagicSmith will have a refill deal of sorts.

That's all I got but I look forward to using this more as it is definitely a strong piece of magic and a prop that does not disappoint!
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Aug 8, 2014 07:23PM)
Finally a review here . Thanks for the extra info .
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Aug 9, 2014 12:44PM)
Thanks for the reviews. Sounds promising so far.
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Aug 10, 2014 12:01AM)
[quote]On Aug 8, 2014, PendletonThe3rd wrote:

If I had to be nit picky, I would have preferred that the sharpie be a bit more accurate to the real thing in a certain aesthetic regard. At the risk of exposure, I wont say what it is about it, aesthetically, but to be fair, I could tell this from watching the demo and purchased it anyway. So not a huge deal, but it seems as though they could have made it to the actual aesthetic design of a Sharpie Fine Point and still have the Double Cross Sharpie do its thing. For all I know, though, maybe the design is an actual Sharpie one and I'm just not familiar with it?

Anyway, that's my only nit pick.[/quote]

Upon watching the demo video on MagicSmith's site, that doesn’t look like a Sharpie at all. The description says "Sharpie pen", and I know that Sharpie now has ink pens that are not markers. However I own some of those - both types, with cap and retractable - and neither the pens nor Sharpie markers look like the writing instrument used in the demo video.

Hopefully someone from MagicSmith can drop in and explain the difference.

Thank you.

Jim
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Aug 10, 2014 01:02AM)
[quote]On Aug 10, 2014, J-Mac wrote:
[quote]On Aug 8, 2014, PendletonThe3rd wrote:

If I had to be nit picky, I would have preferred that the sharpie be a bit more accurate to the real thing in a certain aesthetic regard. At the risk of exposure, I wont say what it is about it, aesthetically, but to be fair, I could tell this from watching the demo and purchased it anyway. So not a huge deal, but it seems as though they could have made it to the actual aesthetic design of a Sharpie Fine Point and still have the Double Cross Sharpie do its thing. For all I know, though, maybe the design is an actual Sharpie one and I'm just not familiar with it?

Anyway, that's my only nit pick.[/quote]

Upon watching the demo video on MagicSmith's site, that doesn’t look like a Sharpie at all. The description says "Sharpie pen", and I know that Sharpie now has ink pens that are not markers. However I own some of those - both types, with cap and retractable - and neither the pens nor Sharpie markers look like the writing instrument used in the demo video.

Hopefully someone from MagicSmith can drop in and explain the difference.

Thank you.

Jim [/quote]

Some advertising text may be misleading . But I don't see the reason why Magic Smith will be doing so . Perhaps they should include a normal marker that matches the one used in the video .
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Aug 10, 2014 01:18AM)
[quote]On Aug 10, 2014, Magician560 wrote:

Some advertising text may be misleading . But I don't see the reason why Magic Smith will be doing so . Perhaps they should include a normal marker that matches the one used in the video . [/quote]

I'm not asking for a "normal marker", nor am I complaining about misleading advertising. I'm just noting that the marker/pen used in the video doesn’t appear to be a Sharpie, and if it is not then what is it? Video doesn’t show it clearly enough to see what it actually is.

Why do I think I need to know? Because at $60.00 I want to know exactly what props I am getting. That's all.

Jim
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Aug 10, 2014 06:33AM)
[quote]On Aug 10, 2014, J-Mac wrote:
[quote]On Aug 10, 2014, Magician560 wrote:

Some advertising text may be misleading . But I don't see the reason why Magic Smith will be doing so . Perhaps they should include a normal marker that matches the one used in the video . [/quote]

I'm not asking for a "normal marker", nor am I complaining about misleading advertising. I'm just noting that the marker/pen used in the video doesn’t appear to be a Sharpie, and if it is not then what is it? Video doesn’t show it clearly enough to see what it actually is.

Why do I think I need to know? Because at $60.00 I want to know exactly what props I am getting. That's all.

Jim [/quote]

I know . That's why I say magic smith won't be doing any misleading trailers . As for normal marker , I am just stating that I hope they could include one . Just so in the end I can use it as a signature marker before doing Double Cross . :)
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Aug 10, 2014 12:03PM)
Chris stated that he will start wholesales in approx 4 weeks.
Message: Posted by: PendletonThe3rd (Aug 10, 2014 12:47PM)
[quote]On Aug 8, 2014, PendletonThe3rd wrote:

If I had to be nit picky, I would have preferred that the sharpie be a bit more accurate to the real thing in a certain aesthetic regard. At the risk of exposure, I wont say what it is about it, aesthetically, but to be fair, I could tell this from watching the demo and purchased it anyway. So not a huge deal, but it seems as though they could have made it to the actual aesthetic design of a Sharpie Fine Point and still have the Double Cross Sharpie do its thing. For all I know, though, maybe the design is an actual Sharpie one and I'm just not familiar with it?

[/quote]

To clarify what I wrote above, it is a branded Sharpie Fine Point. Pretty much accurate except for one area which you can see on the demo. It obviously is that way to facilitate the Double Cross effect but I was just pointing out that it seems perhaps they could have made that area true to form and still accomplish what needs doing. But what do I know...I could be wrong about that.

Either way, the few times I have performed this, there is zero heat on the Sharpie. Even if they do look at it, it doesn't stand out to an average person. They don't pay as much attention to Sharpies as we do ;) Further, you can hold it so as not to show that area and nobody will think anything of it.

Anyway, ive been playing with this still all weekend, and just love it. Get's great reaction every time.

In playing it more, though, I have noticed another nitpick with regards to a certain residue left on the finger but best to discuss that downstairs. If anyone who has this is experiencing similar things, let me know downstairs. Again, this is not a huge deal as it relates to a certain "accessory" the kit comes with that you don't have to necessarily use.
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Aug 10, 2014 01:11PM)
Note by Matt Scone,could this not do the same thing? and cheaper,did not like it at the time but I may well take it out of the drawer and rewatch it.
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Aug 12, 2014 03:43AM)
After watching Mat scone's NOTE,never liked it before and had it quite a few years glad I have got it out of the drawer now. I used it in conjunction with a peek and a frixion pen,quite a good reation on the nest door neighbour,lol,so for me this thread as resurected an old trick for me,not saying Double Cross is the same or that Note is any better just has peeked my interest in this type of routine,all the best with it.
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Aug 12, 2014 01:30PM)
I told myself that I wouldn't post on this thread anymore simply because of the old adage that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. I see that adage personified by the arguments being brought up by other members of this site who seem to believe that power in magic is derived from the props a magician uses rather than the magician himself. While I find such misguided beliefs to be distressing, nowhere is it more pathetic than in the member who flits from thread to thread in the Latest and Greatest forum of this site singing the praises of everything new and entreating everyone to spend lots of money out of one side of his face while attempting to make me look the fool because I rail against such silly and imprudent practices from the other side of his face.

The previous two posts make my argument in spades. Fire Starter has had a specific prop in his bottom drawer (Matt Sconce's "Note") and never realized the power behind it until this product was released. In turn, lots of folks are going to buy up "Double Cross" and do exactly the same - into the bottom drawer it will go until the next latest and greatest comes out and then maybe, just maybe, they'll resurrect it and start using it. Until then, it will be money thrown out. Maybe, though, the new product will be $100.00 and they won't want to pay that price and will say to themselves, "Oh, yea, that's right...I had a product that did the same thing for a fraction of the cost...I guess I should have a look at it again."

And through all of this guys like me are chuckling to themselves saying, "I was doing that trick when I was 10 years old and getting the same reactions that these 'professionals' are getting, all the while trying to sell me that trick wrapped up in a different package."

One guy on this thread is claiming that the Sharpie trick is different than the one I do already. No, it's not. What is the trick? When you boil it down to its essence, what is the trick? A mark transposes from one hand to another in an impossible fashion. That's it. That's the trick. Use a Sharpie, use ashes, or use a freshly picked booger - it's the same *** trick. The only difference is the skill of the magician to make it powerful. Some magicians need a special prop, a gimmicked Sharpie, to make it powerful. That doesn't change the fact that it is a mark on one hand transposing to another. That's the long and short of it - it's the same *** trick. Trying to claim that somehow it's a different trick if you use a Sharpie comes down to qualia and Mary's room.

What is really disheartening on this thread, though, is how many among us are prepared to pay a guy for a trick he ripped off from another guy. Everyone talks about how nice a guy Gary Jones is, but all of them appear to be prepared to bend him over just so that they can buy his ripped off idea from someone else. Further exacerbating the situation is that having this Sharpie doesn't make you a better or more powerful magician, regardless of what you tell yourself.

Again, pathetic.

Mike.
Message: Posted by: Joe Roberts (Aug 12, 2014 01:46PM)
[quote]On Aug 12, 2014, Michael Jay wrote:
One guy on this thread is claiming that the Sharpie trick is different than the one I do already. No, it's not. What is the trick? When you boil it down to its essence, what is the trick? A mark transposes from one hand to another in an impossible fashion. That's it. That's the trick. Use a Sharpie, use ashes, or use a freshly picked booger - it's the same *** trick. The only difference is the skill of the magician to make it powerful. Some magicians need a special prop, a gimmicked Sharpie, to make it powerful. That doesn't change the fact that it is a mark on one hand transposing to another. That's the long and short of it - it's the same *** trick. Trying to claim that somehow it's a different trick if you use a Sharpie comes down to qualia and Mary's room.
[/quote]

Hey, good point! So by this logic, telling someone to think of one of three shapes and telling them what it is is the same as having them think of any word in the english language and telling them what it is. In both you're reading their mind. So it's the same trick. Don't you people get it? It's [i]exactly[/i] the same trick. If you make ashes appear on their palm, or a tattoo, that's the same trick. Because spectators are super dumb and can't work out that some things are more difficult than others. If you told a random layperson to secretly get a smudge of ash on someone, or secretly draw an x on them, they would see these two things as [b]the exact same level of difficulty[/b].

Thanks, Michael Jay, for your trenchant insights!
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Aug 12, 2014 01:52PM)
Like I said, you can lead a horse to water...

If you've done your job, the level of difficulty means nothing. If it did, then making a card come to top of a deck would be scoffed at when someone else has already made the Statue of Liberty disappear.

Please feel free to further continue your childish, sarcastic, rants.

Mike.
Message: Posted by: Joe Roberts (Aug 12, 2014 02:28PM)
[quote]On Aug 12, 2014, Michael Jay wrote:
Like I said, you can lead a horse to water...

If you've done your job, the level of difficulty means nothing. If it did, then making a card come to top of a deck would be scoffed at when someone else has already made the Statue of Liberty disappear.

Please feel free to further continue your childish, sarcastic, rants.

Mike. [/quote]

So now you're attempting to argue that "level of difficulty means nothing." Oh, only "if you've done your job." I get it. Well, our job is to do difficult, if not impossible things. So yes, I'd say level of difficulty just might come into the equation.
Message: Posted by: CarlMcCoy (Aug 13, 2014 03:45AM)
[quote]On Aug 12, 2014, Michael Jay wrote:
Please feel free to further continue your childish, sarcastic, rants.

Mike. [/quote]

Well you seem to be doing a fairly good job on your own Michael.
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Aug 13, 2014 06:06AM)
Based on so many good reviews , I decided to change my mind and reconsider buying this effect . As many mentioned this is self contained . Which is one good point that I like about this .

And lol ... calm down guys ...
Message: Posted by: Exitmat (Sep 21, 2014 02:04PM)
Just got this and absolutely love it. I've always loved the Super Sharpie that MagicSmith makes, and this is a sort of spin on that but with a totally different effect. This is the most practical version of the effects it's based on (Ashes on Palm, Stars and Hexes, Exile, etc.) I've come across as there's nothing to carry but the pen, and there's no mess or clean up that needs to be done afterwards. I also like that the marking is a clear bold "X" in marker as opposed to just a smudge of some substance. That's a nice added layer of deception. As far as the prop itself is concerned, the pen is really well-made and the entire effect is self-contained. The "X" on the spectator's hand always comes out nice and bold and dark too. The handling is very easy. This definitely will not end up in my junk drawer. If you like what you see in the demo, you will not be disappointed.
Message: Posted by: rasmus (Nov 4, 2014 03:25PM)
I received Double Cross 2 weeks ago and here is my Review:

The Gimmick you receive is outstanding! It's completely self contained and gives you 100% Security
to handle.

The Video Download is very well made and Chris covers everything you need to know.

The Effect itself is super strong and even stronger because of the X that you transfer from one Hand
to the other. Much stronger then ashes or a lipstick dot, because in the Head of the Spectator it is a real drawing and it exactly looks like a drawn X.

The X Impression looks perfect every time. Because of the Fact, that the Gimmick is selfcontained, you don't have to ditch anything or bring anything aside.

The Gimmick is in full view and not detactable. I tried many similar effects with the same approach but double cross is definetly the winner.

The Gimmick is extremely well made and will probably last man years, since you can refill it by yourself.

The skill Level you need is zero.

This Tool is definetly worth the asked Price if not more IMHO. Special Thanks to Mark Southworth for this wonderful Idea:)


I can highly recommand Double Cross
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Nov 4, 2014 06:55PM)
I still cannot understand why this item has not gone wholesale yet. I'm fed up with asking Chris.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Nov 4, 2014 07:03PM)
I've caved in and ordered. Just a long wait now via Air-Mail. :bawl:
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Nov 4, 2014 08:33PM)
Nice review Rasmus.

Thanks!

Jim
Message: Posted by: doug brewer (Nov 12, 2014 11:45PM)
SKILL LEVEL ZERO! I'M IN!
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Nov 13, 2014 06:02AM)
Still waiting from Nov 04th. This is why I rarely order from the States. It's spent a week at LA and it has now arrived in Canada. I live in the UK. Go figure.
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (Nov 15, 2014 10:49AM)
Ordered mine and it arrived in two days. Chris is great and his teaching is always thorough and clear. Rasmus pretty much says it all but I would say the skill level needed is higher than zero. The gimmick is self contained but you still need to manage the choreography similar to using a regular Super Sharpie. Top notch and worth the price if you will actually use it. I would not use this for corporate gigs because of the permanent ink on the spectator's hand but this would kill in a bar or less formal setting.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Nov 19, 2014 12:14PM)
I finally received mine, no fault of Chris' but duff info from USPS. It's turns out I now have 2 and Chris has told me to keep both. However, I want to pay Steve back so anyone in the UK wants this effect very quickly then please PM me. Thanks.

This is a brilliant effect and the cross is printed perfectly on the specs hand which leaves them dumbfounded. Very happy with my purchase.
Message: Posted by: magicinsight (Nov 19, 2014 02:15PM)
My difficulty with it is due to the small size of the gimmick and how you handle it, I keep on getting ink and "x"s on my own fingers while trying to manipulate the gimmick in position.
Michael
Message: Posted by: rasmus (Nov 19, 2014 06:35PM)
[quote]On Nov 15, 2014, emyers99 wrote:
Ordered mine and it arrived in two days. Chris is great and his teaching is always thorough and clear. Rasmus pretty much says it all but I would say the skill level needed is higher than zero. The gimmick is self contained but you still need to manage the choreography similar to using a regular Super Sharpie. Top notch and worth the price if you will actually use it. I would not use this for corporate gigs because of the permanent ink on the spectator's hand but this would kill in a bar or less formal setting. [/quote]

i use it at corporate events but do not transpose the X to the spec hand but instead to a lighter, businesscard or matchbox etc.
while the spectator is holding the fairly examined object, the x that is drawn onto his hand, moves over to the object and is permanently on.

that's my method for corporate events without spectators having permanent ink on their hands.

enjoy
:)
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Nov 19, 2014 09:07PM)
[quote]On Nov 19, 2014, magicinsight wrote:
My difficulty with it is due to the small size of the gimmick and how you handle it, I keep on getting ink and "x"s on my own fingers while trying to manipulate the gimmick in position.
Michael [/quote]

I prepare that beforehand, out of sight, so I'm all ready to go off the bat. Although you can do it in front of them, as per the instructions, it can become a bit messy I agree.
Message: Posted by: magicinsight (Nov 20, 2014 04:00PM)
Rasmus,

Thank you for the tips and suggestions in your PM. I sincerely appreciate your help.

Best wishes,

Michael
Message: Posted by: Kaliix (Nov 20, 2014 04:17PM)
Oh that is a smart alternative when it would be impolite to leave a spectators hand inked. Nice tip Rasmus! :-)

[quote]On Nov 19, 2014, rasmus wrote:
[quote]On Nov 15, 2014, emyers99 wrote:
Ordered mine and it arrived in two days. Chris is great and his teaching is always thorough and clear. Rasmus pretty much says it all but I would say the skill level needed is higher than zero. The gimmick is self contained but you still need to manage the choreography similar to using a regular Super Sharpie. Top notch and worth the price if you will actually use it. I would not use this for corporate gigs because of the permanent ink on the spectator's hand but this would kill in a bar or less formal setting. [/quote]

i use it at corporate events but do not transpose the X to the spec hand but instead to a lighter, businesscard or matchbox etc.
while the spectator is holding the fairly examined object, the x that is drawn onto his hand, moves over to the object and is permanently on.

that's my method for corporate events without spectators having permanent ink on their hands.

enjoy
:) [/quote]
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (Nov 22, 2014 10:05PM)
Great ideas. Thanks!

Anyone having trouble getting the X to disappear from your hand? Seems to only work sporadically for me.
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Nov 22, 2014 10:37PM)
[quote]On Nov 22, 2014, emyers99 wrote:
Great ideas. Thanks!

Anyone having trouble getting the X to disappear from your hand? Seems to only work sporadically for me. [/quote]

I'm having some difficulty, but I just received Double Cross yesterday and have only practiced it several times. I was hoping that I just hadn't gotten the right "touch" yet. That still might be my problem.

Jim
Message: Posted by: Exitmat (Nov 22, 2014 10:54PM)
I do the vanish different and haven't had any problem making it disappear. I draw the X in the center of my hand (which is the same place it appears on their hand) and "pinch" it off and throw it toward their hand. Comes off every time. Always gets a great reaction. This is my favorite effect I've bought all year. After using it for a week I immediately bought a back-up.
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Nov 22, 2014 10:58PM)
Great idea! I'll have to give that a try.

Jim
Message: Posted by: SimonTheSorcerer (Mar 9, 2015 06:52AM)
Have the same problem with the method taught on the dvd...will try the pinch as well.

Just another problem: how do you store the pen in your pocket?! The special piece makes a lot of "dirt" when it gets a bit warmer in the pocket!
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Mar 9, 2015 08:03AM)
Hi Simon.

While I really love this item, I haven't yet performed it for anyone. Until it rehearses well, I won't try it with spectators.

I simply have not found a way to steal the gimmick and then ditch it when done with it. Let alone just hold and hide it till the routine is over. Unfortunately nothing addresses that in the instructions.

Jim
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Mar 9, 2015 09:28AM)
I agree J it is a bit fiddly. I have the gimmick in position before I start the short routine, and then go to my pocket to ditch.
Message: Posted by: SimonTheSorcerer (Mar 9, 2015 09:34AM)
Maybe the performance in the latest Wizard Product Review can help a bit for the timing problem of the ditching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Senf4aNhgpg#t=8m40s

my problem is, I always have ink on my finger when I ditch the gimmick. Same problem with Super Sharpie by the way.
Message: Posted by: Exitmat (Mar 9, 2015 11:03AM)
What are you guys having trouble ditching? There's nothing to ditch. Just get the gimmick in place while you talk. When the moment is right, casually steal the gimmick off, do the move (you don't need to be in a rush to do the move either), and bring the gimmick and the place it fits into back together as your hands come together naturally. Now you have ample time to fix the gimmick snugly into place while you talk to them. None of this should really be done secretly as sleights or moves as no one should be paying attention to you fiddling with a Sharpie while you're talking to them. Be casual and the natural misdirection will cover everything you need to do. There's not much to see anyhow.

Double-Cross is the best thing I've bought in a long time. Real worker. Love it.
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Mar 9, 2015 01:14PM)
Exitmat, have you done anything to make the gimmick easy to take? I've worked it hard and it is still very difficult to remove. Maybe it's just magician's guilt - though I thought I'd gotten over that years ago - but I don't believe I could remove the gimmick without deception, regardless of the misdirection used. Maybe I'll put some more time in trying to make it looser.

Thank you.

Jim
Message: Posted by: Exitmat (Mar 9, 2015 01:50PM)
[quote]On Mar 9, 2015, J-Mac wrote:
Exitmat, have you done anything to make the gimmick easy to take? I've worked it hard and it is still very difficult to remove. Maybe it's just magician's guilt - though I thought I'd gotten over that years ago - but I don't believe I could remove the gimmick without deception, regardless of the misdirection used. Maybe I'll put some more time in trying to make it looser.

Thank you.

Jim [/quote]

Hey Jim,

I don't really do anything deceptive to remove the gimmick; I just do it pretty openly. I'm stealing the gimmick into position before any of the effect has started though, so there's no reason for anyone to be looking for anything. So the effect doesn't start until the gimmick is in place and ready to go. Try just taking the marker out and practice stealing off the gimmick into position in front of people without performing the effect, and I think you'll get a good grasp on the timing. It's just an off-beat thing you're doing before you're ready to present the effect. Just fiddle with the marker a little while you're talking with people, and as you do, casually steal the gimmick off without making a move out of it. Hope this helps.
Message: Posted by: warren (Mar 9, 2015 02:35PM)
If the x is being made to appear on an object other than the spectators hand what is it that makes this effect better than SandsMinds sharpie ?
Message: Posted by: mkarav (Mar 9, 2015 11:57PM)
How reliable is the vanishing of the ink in the performer's hand? Is it failsafe or does it vary with faint traces left?

For the record Henry Hay in "The Amateur Magician's Handbook" describes the Pothead trick that can be done with any porous surface like a sugar cube. The interesting point of this version is the DELAY: the spec stares at their palm while the cube (with symbol drawn by say a pencil) dissolves in a glass of water or crushed on floor by shoe: THEN you ask him to place his hands over the glass and that is when you transfer the symbol to his hands.

This effect appears stronger than loading the spec right away and then revealing the symbol on his palm. After the symbol disappears in the performer's hand DELAY while spec looks is convinced his palms are clean then do the dirty work.
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Mar 11, 2015 10:29PM)
[quote]On Mar 9, 2015, warren wrote:
If the x is being made to appear on an object other than the spectators hand what is it that makes this effect better than SandsMinds sharpie ? [/quote]

I can't say as I had only planned and practiced this for making it on people's hands. I think that the other way you mentioned is just an alternate effect that someone mentioned they preferred. Not the main nor intended effect, AFAIK.

Jim
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Mar 11, 2015 10:32PM)
Mkarav,

I would think that the spectator might be a little more expectant if he or she sees a mark vanish from your hand first. It's a natural progression for the effect. A short time delay would certainly not hurt, but I don’t think I would reverse the order as you suggest.

Jim
Message: Posted by: Exitmat (Mar 12, 2015 08:30AM)
[quote]On Mar 10, 2015, mkarav wrote:
How reliable is the vanishing of the ink in the performer's hand? Is it failsafe or does it vary with faint traces left?

For the record Henry Hay in "The Amateur Magician's Handbook" describes the Pothead trick that can be done with any porous surface like a sugar cube. The interesting point of this version is the DELAY: the spec stares at their palm while the cube (with symbol drawn by say a pencil) dissolves in a glass of water or crushed on floor by shoe: THEN you ask him to place his hands over the glass and that is when you transfer the symbol to his hands.

This effect appears stronger than loading the spec right away and then revealing the symbol on his palm. After the symbol disappears in the performer's hand DELAY while spec looks is convinced his palms are clean then do the dirty work. [/quote]
It's reliable. Works every time.

And I wouldn't sacrifice the time misdirection you get from marking them early for the extra convincer. One of the beautiful things about this effect is after it's over the volunteer always says "But you never touched me!" or someone will ask if you touched them, and they always say no. Part of the deception is that you're so far ahead.
Message: Posted by: ChrisDavid (Mar 14, 2015 09:34AM)
Im selling mine. However I cannot log in under user name VernonOnCoins due to some technical difficulty so I cannot post in sales section under this current user name.

My Double Cross is basically brand new. I just took it out and looked it over (used a bit of the tack on the end of pen) otherwise the unit is in like-new condition


$55 shipped (will save you about 10 bucks with their shipping etc)


Just PM me. Thanks
Chris
Message: Posted by: carlwag (Mar 15, 2015 08:48AM)
Can anyone pm me I'm having issues with the vanish

Carl
Message: Posted by: bobgill (Mar 20, 2015 08:39AM)
I think Michael Jay made a few very valid points:
- there are other ways to achieve a similar-seeming effect
- this is a good solution: well thought-out, well made, and it works
- there is a moral dilemma involved, since if you have read the thread you know Gary Jones' allegation that the concept was his and so he feels he was ripped off
- no-one knows the role played by the central figure, Mark Southworth, but good luck trying to get a reply out of Mark. [In fairness, I understand he has had a tough family situation to deal with, so he's not on top of his communications right now.]

I just received the prop, not having read this thread till now. Gary is someone I hold in high regard (and he's a fellow Plymothian) so I regret the position he finds himself in. Had I known the history: would I have bought it? Probably not. Now I do know, will I get rid of it on principle? Probably not.

For what it's worth, I think it's a fine prop, and a strong routine. I bought it purely on the strength of the effect I saw on the trailer, and it does exactly what was promised. I will use this, both socially and professionally.

As some of the postings suggest, it is a touch knacky to handle, but the teaching video does a first class job of explaining it in great detail.

Rasmus: nice idea with the biz card/lighter, although I think it does dilute the impact and organic nature of something appearing on a spectator's hand - it's almost a touch intimate.

I quite like the idea of having a dozen or more people at the function having the magic mark on them - provides a talking point in which my performance features.

A pal of mine in the UK, Pete Wentworth, used to constantly do the venerable ash trick back when ashtrays were commonplace. He had a lovely gesture at the end - handed the spectator a single, wrapped wet-wipe tissue (like those given out at KFC) to clean themselves up. It was always a much-appreciated gesture that reflected well on him as a performer and gentleman: particularly as he worked with VIPs, including British Royalty.

My only concern is how long this prop (or to be precise, the inks in the prop) will last - although ink replacements are available from Magicsmith, and his video gives full details how to replace them yourself. So as long as he supports it with these replacements, or one can track down a source of the ink used in the vanish, all's well. Only time will tell how long busy pros find it lasts before the ink runs dry. It's not as if one can buy a supply for the future right now, as they'd all dry out together!
Message: Posted by: gjmagic (Mar 23, 2015 05:07AM)
[quote]On Mar 20, 2015, bobgill wrote:
I think Michael Jay made a few very valid points:
- there are other ways to achieve a similar-seeming effect
- this is a good solution: well thought-out, well made, and it works
- there is a moral dilemma involved, since if you have read the thread you know Gary Jones' allegation that the concept was his and so he feels he was ripped off
- no-one knows the role played by the central figure, Mark Southworth, but good luck trying to get a reply out of Mark. [In fairness, I understand he has had a tough family situation to deal with, so he's not on top of his communications right now.]

I just received the prop, not having read this thread till now. Gary is someone I hold in high regard (and he's a fellow Plymothian) so I regret the position he finds himself in. Had I known the history: would I have bought it? Probably not. Now I do know, will I get rid of it on principle? Probably not.

For what it's worth, I think it's a fine prop, and a strong routine. I bought it purely on the strength of the effect I saw on the trailer, and it does exactly what was promised. I will use this, both socially and professionally.

As some of the postings suggest, it is a touch knacky to handle, but the teaching video does a first class job of explaining it in great detail.

Rasmus: nice idea with the biz card/lighter, although I think it does dilute the impact and organic nature of something appearing on a spectator's hand - it's almost a touch intimate.

I quite like the idea of having a dozen or more people at the function having the magic mark on them - provides a talking point in which my performance features.

A pal of mine in the UK, Pete Wentworth, used to constantly do the venerable ash trick back when ashtrays were commonplace. He had a lovely gesture at the end - handed the spectator a single, wrapped wet-wipe tissue (like those given out at KFC) to clean themselves up. It was always a much-appreciated gesture that reflected well on him as a performer and gentleman: particularly as he worked with VIPs, including British Royalty.

My only concern is how long this prop (or to be precise, the inks in the prop) will last - although ink replacements are available from Magicsmith, and his video gives full details how to replace them yourself. So as long as he supports it with these replacements, or one can track down a source of the ink used in the vanish, all's well. Only time will tell how long busy pros find it lasts before the ink runs dry. It's not as if one can buy a supply for the future right now, as they'd all dry out together! [/quote]

Hi Bob,

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, yes I had this idea and shared the idea with Mark, it was then put on the back-burner (I have many ideas I've not done anything with) so I was a little peeved shall we say when this was released. That's in the past and life moves on! I haven't seen the final product so I can't really answer your question, I would love to see the finished product but I certainly ain't going to purchase one :-)

As for my outburst on Facebook, it was before I had my coffee, and it was removed not long after (after I'd had my coffee!!), unfortunately some people take screenshots, or immediately repost these things on forums because as humans we love a bit of gossip/scandal. I'm totally to blame for that for pressing the send button.......but I don't want that to distract from this product in any way. Far from it, I hope this product does extremely well as I still believe that the idea is sound and gives fellow magicians another version of this classic.

Mike does indeed make some sound points, and do we need yet another version of a sound effect? I personally think we do, we're all different, and choices are good in my book, but each to their own.

What makes this version so good is, it's a self-contained unit, if you have the pen on you then you can mark items and vanish ink marks, no messy stamps to carry, and it still can work alongside traditional methods of this effect!

Like I mentioned, I've not seen the finished product but from what I know it has certainly moved along much further from my original idea with the gimmick supplied. Of course, I'm not the only person in the world to have thought of this idea, it's a natural progression, doing away with the old style stamping gimmicks and creating a self-contained unit. My original idea was making it into the pen, and then having different (extra) stamps for playing cards, letters, symbols etc, hopefully this will soon be added to this gimmick.

So all good this end, and please don't be put off by my original outburst a while back, I truly do endorse this product as I obviously think it is an awesome idea! Would still love to see the finished product ;-)

Kind regards,

Gary.
Message: Posted by: Jared (Mar 24, 2015 11:24AM)
Gary Jones is pure class...I buy almost everything from him sight unseen. I was joking with a close magic friend this morning while discussing a recent video of his by saying don't you wish that Gary Jones was your uncle? He's so likeable and down-to-earth on his videos.
Message: Posted by: roblane (Apr 3, 2015 02:18AM)
Just got this and I think it's a brilliantly self-contained prop. I'm having trouble getting the 'you know what' to stay on my finger. Any advice chaps ( if that indeed makes any sense)?
Message: Posted by: Casey Sparrow (Apr 3, 2015 03:17AM)
Use more of the St**** Stuff??

CS
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Apr 8, 2015 10:23AM)
I've been doing 'ashes on the hand' for nearly 40 years now without any of the problems - any_of_the_problems - that are being posted on this thread. I must say, though, that this thread is a truly entertaining read...My favorite post so far is:

"I'm selling mine..." (ChrisDavid) :rotf:

But, as is pointed out in several earlier posts, I'm just an idiot. My suggestion is that you don't listen to anything that I have to say and you just keep buying up the latest and the greatest with abandon.

Carry on!

Mike.
Message: Posted by: MR Effecto (Apr 8, 2015 10:55AM)
I sould have this by Thursday. Cant wait.
Message: Posted by: Kaliix (Apr 8, 2015 12:26PM)
What letter did you draw with those ashes?

Those ashes leaves permanent marks, at least ones that stay on for a day or two?


[quote]On Apr 8, 2015, Michael Jay wrote:
I've been doing 'ashes on the hand' for nearly 40 years now without any of the problems - any_of_the_problems - that are being posted on this thread. I must say, though, that this thread is a truly entertaining read...My favorite post so far is:

"I'm selling mine..." (ChrisDavid) :rotf:

But, as is pointed out in several earlier posts, I'm just an idiot. My suggestion is that you don't listen to anything that I have to say and you just keep buying up the latest and the greatest with abandon.

Carry on!

Mike. [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Apr 8, 2015 01:04PM)
No, Kaliix, the ashes aren't permanent. Of course, that's a downside to it because, as we all know, what everyone wants is someone putting permanent marker on their hands. They just love that (especially if they are a trained professional like a doctor or nurse...And their patients just love how unprofessional they look with permanent maker on their hands - it's just another bonus of helping a magician).

Also, you are correct...When they see the ashes on their hand with no logical answer as to how they got there, they just aren't as impressed as when they see a letter there. In fact, once when I did 'ashes on the hand' the guy looked at me and said, "That's not magic. The other magician that I saw made a letter appear on my hand. I know it's real magic when it's a letter and not just some old smudge. Gee, if only you had that awesome marker that makes letters appear on my hand, then you'd be a real magician."

:rolleyes:

Mike.
Message: Posted by: oweosc12 (Apr 8, 2015 01:11PM)
Similar to exile by mathieu bich
Message: Posted by: Kaliix (Apr 8, 2015 03:00PM)
Well Michael, a good magician would know his audience, use some spectator management and might just do the trick to a business card instead of the spectators hand. Cleaner and it leaves your contact information on a permanent souvenir.

Since you have never done double cross, you would have no idea what the spectator would think as evidenced by the fact that I was actually referring to the permanent ink that disappears from the magicians hand, not the spectators. A point you would understand if you ever actually did the effect. Ash just brushes away which is not nearly as impressive. Wiping off ash is not an effect. Vanishing permanent ink is.

Also, I'm always interested in learning new ways of introducing ash since so few people smoke these days. I don't have that issue with double cross as well, it's a sharpie, so please at least do that magicians helping magicians thing and enlighten us.

[quote]On Apr 8, 2015, Michael Jay wrote:
No, Kaliix, the ashes aren't permanent. Of course, that's a downside to it because, as we all know, what everyone wants is someone putting permanent marker on their hands. They just love that (especially if they are a trained professional like a doctor or nurse...And their patients just love how unprofessional they look with permanent maker on their hands - it's just another bonus of helping a magician).

Also, you are correct...When they see the ashes on their hand with no logical answer as to how they got there, they just aren't as impressed as when they see a letter there. In fact, once when I did 'ashes on the hand' the guy looked at me and said, "That's not magic. The other magician that I saw made a letter appear on my hand. I know it's real magic when it's a letter and not just some old smudge. Gee, if only you had that awesome marker that makes letters appear on my hand, then you'd be a real magician."

:rolleyes:

Mike. [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Paul S Wingham (Apr 8, 2015 03:25PM)
A smudged bit of ash compared to drawn on cross; mmmm which is more impossible. I'm not saying the ashes don't work but lets be frank; some people are going to say "he must have put it on there at some point". Now; you can argue the same about a cross, but the fact its drawn in adds another degree of seperation.

But hey; not everyone likes everything; which is no bad thing.
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Apr 8, 2015 06:17PM)
Kaliix, I've already published an alternative and, furthermore, I've explained alternatives earlier on this thread.

The fact of the matter is, if you need a prop to give your magic greater strength, then what you need, more than the latest and greatest props, are books that teach you how to be a magician. That's the biggest problem in magic today - too many people who think buying sharpies or apps or whatever trick du jour is going to make them a great magician.

Sadly, when someone takes the time to point this out (like another magician trying to help magicians) they simply react with ridicule and remain happy in their world of ignorance. I guess it really is bliss.

Mike.
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Apr 8, 2015 06:40PM)
Because you act like you're right and everyone else is wrong. Neither opinion in this case is right or wrong, they're just different. Personally the ink seems much more magical and relevant than the ash to me, however that's just my view and doesn't mean the same for everyone.
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Apr 8, 2015 06:42PM)
MJ fits the definition of a troll perfectly. Please stop feeding it.

:cool:

Jim
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Apr 8, 2015 06:53PM)
I have contributed some excellent material to this site and I have stated my opinion (an opinion that is backed up by glut of material that is churned out by the magic industry on a daily basis and further backed up by the writings of several past masters, including Dai Vernon, Dariel Fitzkee, Maskelyne, Devant, et. al.) and since you don't have any real argument, you revert to ad hominem attack. You might not like what I have to say, but that certainly doesn't make me a troll and it is a sad statement on the level of conversation hereabouts that you feel the need to shoot someone down by making such an accusation.

Ah, well, either way I'm done. Some people simply refuse to actually learn their art...But the real shame of it is that it only stands to bring magicians down. Too bad, really.

Mike.
Message: Posted by: MR Effecto (Apr 8, 2015 11:16PM)
[quote]On Apr 8, 2015, Michael Jay wrote:
Kaliix, I've already published an alternative and, furthermore, I've explained alternatives earlier on this thread.

The fact of the matter is, if you need a prop to give your magic greater strength, then what you need, more than the latest and greatest props, are books that teach you how to be a magician. That's the biggest problem in magic today - too many people who think buying sharpies or apps or whatever trick du jour is going to make them a great magician.

Sadly, when someone takes the time to point this out (like another magician trying to help magicians) they simply react with ridicule and remain happy in their world of ignorance. I guess it really is bliss.

Mike. [/quote]


Theres no way you can say you never bought a gimmick or a prop. Even a deck of cards is a prop.
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Apr 9, 2015 08:04AM)
Okay, MR Effecto, I'll answer that.

Yes, I do buy props and/or gimmicks. I don't buy props, however, that allow me to do a trick that I've already been doing for nearly 40 years - a trick that doesn't require a prop, never has, and never will. I further don't buy props that are ripped off from other magicians, either. The prop that is the subject of this thread is a particular bonus because it's both needless and ripped off.

Instead, I prefer to actually study magic and try to become a better magician through understanding the techniques and methods of what we do and why it works, as well as the psychology of every aspect of this fascinating art, rather than buy yet another Sharpie to do the work for me.

But, hey-ho, that's me.

Mike.
Message: Posted by: The Baldini (Apr 9, 2015 08:15AM)
Back to the trick. I saw this in person at the Philly penguin expo. It is completely self-contained super easy to do. And slips right back in your shirt pocket. A nearly perfect in fact, if I had one complaint it would be. At some point you need to moisten your finger. Using my tongue kind of freaks me out after shaking hands and touching things so I try to find a glass of water that has moisture on it.
Message: Posted by: David Klass (Apr 9, 2015 08:55AM)
[quote]On Apr 9, 2015, The Baldini wrote:
Back to the trick. I saw this in person at the Philly penguin expo. It is completely self-contained super easy to do. And slips right back in your shirt pocket. A nearly perfect in fact, if I had one complaint it would be. At some point you need to moisten your finger. Using my tongue kind of freaks me out after shaking hands and touching things so I try to find a glass of water that has moisture on it. [/quote]


How about one of these placed in the same pocket that the pen gets put back into?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tiger-sponge-damper-pad/dp/B00HZOGJZE
Message: Posted by: The Baldini (Apr 9, 2015 09:08AM)
That's exactly what I need and other Germaphobes need.
Thanks.
Message: Posted by: MR Effecto (Apr 9, 2015 09:08AM)
That's a good idea.
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Apr 9, 2015 05:38PM)
Great idea, David!

Thank you.

Jim
Message: Posted by: David Klass (Apr 9, 2015 06:13PM)
You're welcome guys!
Message: Posted by: Saturn UK (Apr 29, 2015 06:51AM)
We just had these into stock today, check them out here http://www.saturnmagic.co.uk/new-magic/mark-southworths-double-cross-from-magic-smith.html
Message: Posted by: MR Effecto (Apr 29, 2015 10:16AM)
I got this and its FN great. Easy to do and it kills.
Message: Posted by: Paul Edmondson (Apr 29, 2015 04:15PM)
[quote]On Mar 9, 2015, SimonTheSorcerer wrote:
Maybe the performance in the latest Wizard Product Review can help a bit for the timing problem of the ditching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Senf4aNhgpg#t=8m40s

my problem is, I always have ink on my finger when I ditch the gimmick. Same problem with Super Sharpie by the way. [/quote]


Ditch the gimmick? There is no reason to ditch the gimmick. It simply goes back on. No heat is drawn.
The x incidentally can be put on their hand way ahead of time, even during another trick.

I am fortunate to be close friends with mark, the inventor and played with this for literally 5 minutes before I proceeded to fry all my family. Very easy to execute and no issues whatsoever.
Message: Posted by: reignofsound (Apr 30, 2015 07:49AM)
Ordered today from Saturn.
Hope it's as good as people are saying
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Apr 30, 2015 08:07AM)
[quote]On Apr 29, 2015, Paul Edmondson wrote:
[quote]On Mar 9, 2015, SimonTheSorcerer wrote:
Maybe the performance in the latest Wizard Product Review can help a bit for the timing problem of the ditching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Senf4aNhgpg#t=8m40s

my problem is, I always have ink on my finger when I ditch the gimmick. Same problem with Super Sharpie by the way. [/quote]


Ditch the gimmick? There is no reason to ditch the gimmick. It simply goes back on. No heat is drawn.
The x incidentally can be put on their hand way ahead of time, even during another trick.

I am fortunate to be close friends with mark, the inventor and played with this for literally 5 minutes before I proceeded to fry all my family. Very easy to execute and no issues whatsoever. [/quote]

Way ahead of time is a terrible idea.
Message: Posted by: eddie2m (Apr 30, 2015 08:29AM)
I LOVE this trick. It's so easy to perform and is self contained. I ask them if they know about pirates. Then I do the move as I ask them who their favorite pirate is. I tell them about the treasure map and ask them what they use to show where the treasure is. They say X. I draw X on my hand then close my hand. I say the X on the treasure map moves around so the pirate tricks people into going to the wrong spot. Then I show it disappeared from my hand and goes to theirs. It fries them.
Rob
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Apr 30, 2015 08:50AM)
Anyone remember Stephen Minch's "Stigmata of Cthulhu"....
Message: Posted by: Paul Edmondson (Apr 30, 2015 10:48AM)
[quote]Way ahead of time is a terrible idea. [/quote]

Opinion noted. When I said way ahead of time I didn't mean meet someone, do the move, then 6 months later if I bump into them again, hoping they haven't spotted the X, I'll perform the effect.

I meant for instance during a 2 card Monte routine, then at the climax when they reveal the card, tell them to keep their hand where it is, it removes the fact that your have touched them even further from memory.

Don't understand why some people are so blunt and somewhat rude. When I say ahead of time, that's because as a working restaurant magician I have done the effect in various ways, and so was giving my feedback. You coming along and shooting down me down is just ridiculous. Perhaps if it was put more tactfully, I take it you are speaking from working experience.

Not been on these forums for a while.... Remember why now. Seems to be people trying to her one up on one another. 53rd card of the deck!
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Apr 30, 2015 01:00PM)
5 mins practise?

Fried everyone?

WAY ahead of time?

Very easy to execute?

No issues whatsoever?

It SIMPLY goes back on. No need to ditch.

Wow, you're the best. I'm also glad you don't come here often.
Message: Posted by: chriscongreave (Apr 30, 2015 01:20PM)
[quote]On Apr 29, 2015, Paul Edmondson wrote:
[quote]On Mar 9, 2015, SimonTheSorcerer wrote:
Maybe the performance in the latest Wizard Product Review can help a bit for the timing problem of the ditching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Senf4aNhgpg#t=8m40s

my problem is, I always have ink on my finger when I ditch the gimmick. Same problem with Super Sharpie by the way. [/quote]


Ditch the gimmick? There is no reason to ditch the gimmick. It simply goes back on. No heat is drawn.
The x incidentally can be put on their hand way ahead of time, even during another trick.

I am fortunate to be close friends with mark, the inventor and played with this for literally 5 minutes before I proceeded to fry all my family. Very easy to execute and no issues whatsoever. [/quote]
I'm sorry, I can't let this go, Mark isn't the creator, he stole this idea off Gary Jones, Myself and several others were told of this, Gary has posted on thos, and Marks name is no longer on the packaging.

It was stolen, pure and simple.

Its a cool effect, and well made.

Just not Mark's.
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Apr 30, 2015 01:28PM)
[quote]On Apr 30, 2015, chriscongreave wrote:
I'm sorry, I can't let this go, Mark isn't the creator, he stole this idea off Gary Jones, Myself and several others were told of this, Gary has posted on thos, and Marks name is no longer on the packaging.

It was stolen, pure and simple.[/quote]

Yea, Chris, but you've got to admit, the guy above with the pirate story presentation is spot on. A pirate story for a pirated effect. It just doesn't get anymore spot on than that.

Mike.
Message: Posted by: chriscongreave (Apr 30, 2015 01:30PM)
Lol, that's a good point Mike!
Message: Posted by: Paul Edmondson (Apr 30, 2015 02:14PM)
I'm not getting involved. I just like the effect and have no issues with it. Simple as that.
Message: Posted by: m477h3w (May 2, 2015 04:11PM)
Anyone using this with Cross ? Wondering if you can pinch the ink off your hand, then 'flick' it onto the card, do the cross trick, then flick it off into their Palm? I don't know how either work so not sure if they will work together?
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (May 2, 2015 08:34PM)
[quote]On May 3, 2015, m477h3w wrote:
Anyone using this with Cross ? Wondering if you can pinch the ink off your hand, then 'flick' it onto the card, do the cross trick, then flick it off into their Palm? I don't know how either work so not sure if they will work together? [/quote]

On the Alakazam Vlog they mentioned it will be a good idea to combine these two together ~ I use Cross with Exile , so I suppose you can use this with Cross too and the effect will definitely be much more stronger .
Message: Posted by: m477h3w (May 3, 2015 02:33AM)
[quote]On May 3, 2015, Magician560 wrote:
[quote]On May 3, 2015, m477h3w wrote:
Anyone using this with Cross ? Wondering if you can pinch the ink off your hand, then 'flick' it onto the card, do the cross trick, then flick it off into their Palm? I don't know how either work so not sure if they will work together? [/quote]

On the Alakazam Vlog they mentioned it will be a good idea to combine these two together ~ I use Cross with Exile , so I suppose you can use this with Cross too and the effect will definitely be much more stronger . [/quote]

***, looks like I have two more tricks to purchase then. Thanks for the response.
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (May 3, 2015 08:55AM)
[quote]On May 3, 2015, m477h3w wrote:
[quote]On May 3, 2015, Magician560 wrote:
[quote]On May 3, 2015, m477h3w wrote:
Anyone using this with Cross ? Wondering if you can pinch the ink off your hand, then 'flick' it onto the card, do the cross trick, then flick it off into their Palm? I don't know how either work so not sure if they will work together? [/quote]

On the Alakazam Vlog they mentioned it will be a good idea to combine these two together ~ I use Cross with Exile , so I suppose you can use this with Cross too and the effect will definitely be much more stronger . [/quote]

***, looks like I have two more tricks to purchase then. Thanks for the response. [/quote]

Welcome ~ More income poured into the magic economy ...
Message: Posted by: Alex DLF (May 3, 2015 09:25AM)
One of the best trick I own ! Will do a review soon.
Message: Posted by: Paul Edmondson (May 3, 2015 04:34PM)
So had a couple of gigs today, so first time performing the effect live, other then for my wife and 3 year old daughter who keeps wanting me to repeat it... (Covered in crosses!)
I cannot believe the reactions I got from it. I love card tricks and generally they are the talking point, but not today (despite flawless clipshifts).
Everyone was raving about'the X trick'!

I love the idea of the pirate patter so thanks for that, used it to goods effect to the children present, mentioning 'Jake and the Neverland pirates'-uk children's cartoon. This went down a treat.

I also used a couple of ideas from the dvd that were also well received. I really love the effect-just hope the ink doesn't run out any time soon!
Message: Posted by: Alex DLF (May 8, 2015 08:27AM)
Double Cross – Mark Southworth

Product description : You ask the spectator to put their hands forward and to choose one. You then draw a little cross on your hand with a sharpie marker. With just a rub, the cross will disappear from your hand to land on the spectator's one, without coming near him at this precise moment. And the cross on their hand is made with permanent marker so they can't rub it off easily. Doesn't sound that impressive or incredible when you read the description but trust me, this is one of my best buy of 2015 !

Price and where to buy it : This is sold at $60.00 and you can only find it on the Magicsmith website.

What you get : You get little plastic case with inside a piece of paper on which you can find the link for the downloadable instructions online. The video is well made and they do teach you everything, from the routine to tips about how performing it as well as how to “refill” your pen. (for the later one, you will have to buy the needed stuff on the Magicsmith website). You also get the gimmicked pen, it's an all built in device which works very well. It looks like a sharpie pen so it's perfect ! You are also provided with some stuff in order to do the trick. Everything feels quality and you can't deny a lot of thoughts and work have been put into this.

Teaser : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRqrGVxXJzs

The pros and the cons : Here is the core of my review, let's begin with the cons, as I will usually be doing, I prefer to keep the good things for the end.

THE CONS :
It's a little pricey for what you get. I would have prefered to have maybe an extra cartridge or a second pen since $60 is a quite a lot of money.
You will leave people with a permanent cross on their hand, it's not a con in itself but they will have to go to the bathroom clean their hand if they want to remove it.

THE PROS :
The gimmick is very well built, as I said, everything is built in the pen so you don't have to carry anything extra apart from the pen to do the effect.
It works ! I remember having the Sansminds Sharpie and it was just not working. This does work and pretty well, you will have to try various places on your hand so the cross will disappear completely every time but nothing hard.
The trick is simple to do and to understand from a layment point of view. Since there is not a lot of manipulation, you can focus on your presentation.
They won't remember you came near them and this is very cool. The main thing people were saying after having experienced the trick is “But you didn't touch me !”. And this is very cool because you can put the cross in their hand whenever you want so you could “set” the spectator's hand way before performing the trick which is another advantage.
The pen can be used for many routines, don't feel limited by what you see on the trailer, with a little bit of imagination, you could build a whole act based on the principle behind this pen.
It's not a card or a coin trick, something which feels very organic and will leave your spectators speechless.

Overall rating : One of my best buy of 2015 ! I didn't thought I would enjoy it that much but from the reactions I got, this definitely something I'm going to carry around at all times ! 4/4 hearts for me and a big recommendation.

As for the difficulty level, maybe a small knack to get it right everytime but nothing very complicated, 2/5 stars.

Similar products : The ash on the hand is a very old and famous trick (I've seen it done with the blue thing you use when playing billiards) but Double Cross succeed in modernising this plot and it works beautifully well !
Message: Posted by: The Baldini (May 8, 2015 08:41AM)
There is one for sale on the café at a very low price
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (May 8, 2015 08:44AM)
[quote]On May 8, 2015, The Baldini wrote:
There is one for sale on the café at a very low price [/quote]
:dancing:
Message: Posted by: SimonTheSorcerer (May 15, 2015 06:47AM)
Finally just went out to perform it and it kills. I tend to fumble a bit when I have to "get ready" but it just look like you are kinda playing with your pen. Not suspicious at all.

When I did the vanish of the ink like described in the video I always left with a rest of ink. I solved it by making a very lose fist so I am able to do the move several times without anybody noticing any muscle movement.
Message: Posted by: music (May 21, 2015 06:31AM)
Very interested in this, does anyone know how many performances you can get befeore having to replace a 60.00 pen?
Message: Posted by: The Baldini (May 21, 2015 08:28AM)
It will last a very very long time. Refilling it is very simple and very inexpensive everything you need is at Walmart
Message: Posted by: music (May 22, 2015 09:14PM)
Thanks Baldini
Message: Posted by: m477h3w (May 23, 2015 06:26AM)
I love this. The only trouble I'm having is getting the original X in my hand to disappear. I am using the same method taught in the instructions. Any tips/extra ideas?

Cheers.
Message: Posted by: The Baldini (May 23, 2015 08:37AM)
Drink more.
Message: Posted by: Kevin Wade (May 23, 2015 09:04AM)
What Baldini said and try writing the X on an area that is smooth and free of any wrinkles.
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (May 23, 2015 12:31PM)
[quote]On May 23, 2015, Kevin Wade wrote:
What Baldini said and try writing the X on an area that is smooth and free of any wrinkles. [/quote]

Ha! Getting harder and harder to find such areas anymore!!

Jim
Message: Posted by: pegasus (May 23, 2015 02:10PM)
[quote]On May 23, 2015, J-Mac wrote:
[quote]On May 23, 2015, Kevin Wade wrote:
What Baldini said and try writing the X on an area that is smooth and free of any wrinkles. [/quote]

Ha! Getting harder and harder to find such areas anymore!!

Jim [/quote]

Lol. I hear yer Mac.
Message: Posted by: Casey Sparrow (May 23, 2015 09:28PM)
To be Honest getting the X to disappear can some times be hit and miss I think climate temperature and Humidity can factor in, as of late ive been "pinching" it off and throwing it to the spectator instructing them to catch it! tbh I wasn't sure how it was going to go but I got amazing reactions from it!!

CS
Message: Posted by: m477h3w (May 24, 2015 03:26AM)
Thanks for tips guys. Will give the pinching idea a go too.
Message: Posted by: Jared (May 31, 2015 10:19AM)
Double Cross is now one of my favorite strolling effects. I've had this for a couple of months but it stayed in my drawer because I was not comfortable with the "saliva move" for lack of better description. I also found that saliva was less than reliable at times. Somebody posted on this thread about a finger moist pad that you could put in your pocket, and so I found one on EBay. The finger pad worked great (erases the mark perfectly) but it was too large. The pad took almost an entire pocket. And so I visited a local Walgreen's store and found a teenager's eye shadow case, which is slightly larger than a half dollar. I cut the foam pad from the finger moist pad to size and it works perfectly! My pocket stays dry but yet it retains moisture for hours. I finally performed Double Cross over the weekend to great success. Trust me, this little finger pad makes ALL the difference...it's 100% reliable and the action is motivated (putting the pen away)plus you can get just the right amount of moisture without your fingers being dripping wet. If you own Double Cross you should give this a try.
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Jun 1, 2015 11:44AM)
This is excellent, Jared. May I suggest that you approach the creators/producers with this idea? This would be the perfect addition to the 2.0 product when it emerges (and it will emerge).

Mike.
Message: Posted by: David Klass (Jun 1, 2015 11:53AM)
It was myself who mentioned the use of a "pocket pad".

You can see the post on page 5 of this thread.

A smaller version is a good idea too.
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Jun 1, 2015 12:05PM)
Oh, you tricky, tricky guys! Swunnerful! :bg:

Mike.
Message: Posted by: videoman (Jun 1, 2015 12:12PM)
[quote]On May 31, 2015, Jared wrote:
Double Cross is now one of my favorite strolling effects. I've had this for a couple of months but it stayed in my drawer because I was not comfortable with the "saliva move" for lack of better description. I also found that saliva was less than reliable at times. Somebody posted on this thread about a finger moist pad that you could put in your pocket, and so I found one on EBay. The finger pad worked great (erases the mark perfectly) but it was too large. The pad took almost an entire pocket. And so I visited a local Walgreen's store and found a teenager's eye shadow case, which is slightly larger than a half dollar. I cut the foam pad from the finger moist pad to size and it works perfectly! My pocket stays dry but yet it retains moisture for hours. I finally performed Double Cross over the weekend to great success. Trust me, this little finger pad makes ALL the difference...it's 100% reliable and the action is motivated (putting the pen away)plus you can get just the right amount of moisture without your fingers being dripping wet. If you own Double Cross you should give this a try. [/quote]

Jared, thanks for trying out the finger moist pad and reporting your findings and improvements back here. Happy to hear that it sounds like a great solution.
I will try and recreate what you have described as I have problems with the vanish part as well.
Thanks again,
Bill
Message: Posted by: Jared (Jun 1, 2015 12:48PM)
Update: I've been carrying around my small finger moist pad for hours at a time. When wearing tighter pants such as jeans there's a small chance that your inside pocket might become a teeny bit damp if it's in direct contact with the foam pad...so yesterday I improved the solution.

Here's how...again, using the same eye shadow case (Brand name Elf duo eye shadow Net Wt. 4 grams)with the fitted foam pad inside. I removed the plastic cover that gets fitted inside the outer retaining ring and replaced it with a cut to size rounded piece of soft plastic from the cover of a Pringles can. Then I took an X-acto knife and cut a round hole just large enough to permit my finger to dip inside (no chance for wetness)...the result is perfection! I will try and post a photo later tonight. The total pocket space needed for this little homemade device is only 1.5" or 38mm.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Jun 1, 2015 01:47PM)
My pants always end up wet after a few beers anyway so no need for gimmicks IMO.
Message: Posted by: Jared (Jun 1, 2015 05:15PM)
A picture is worth a thousand words. Here is the prototype for my finger wet carrier accessory. As you can see it's very compact, and will keep your pockets dry.
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Jun 1, 2015 09:48PM)
Just bought this at the LA Penguin magic expo even though I felt like it was way overpriced. It looks so good in person and fits perfectly with X Move from Something Out of the Ordinary by Nicholas Lawrence that I couldn't resist. Really pleased with them together, flat out kills.,
Message: Posted by: ScienceMagic1616 (Aug 2, 2015 05:00PM)
Just had to write about this effect because it has gotten me amazing reactions. Unexpected because when I got the trick and practiced the method I thought no one would fall for it -- I was wrong... I've had people's jaw drop. Prop will last a long time, I have handed it out when requested pretty much without issue (caught once, person had sweaty hands.) If you are on the fence about it -- go for it. Also Mark has the best customer service I have ever seen.

Tip: I find that putting the X in the middle of my palm works best, softer skin. I then display an open hand -- palm up. I put "treated" index finger on X for 5 secs while I talk, then I pinch it off using my nails of index and thumb to lightly scrap. It then appears on their hands which is the "WTF!!!" reaction.
Message: Posted by: mikenewman (Aug 5, 2015 10:31AM)
[quote]On Apr 30, 2015, eddie2m wrote:
I LOVE this trick. It's so easy to perform and is self contained. I ask them if they know about pirates. Then I do the move as I ask them who their favorite pirate is. I tell them about the treasure map and ask them what they use to show where the treasure is. They say X. I draw X on my hand then close my hand. I say the X on the treasure map moves around so the pirate tricks people into going to the wrong spot. Then I show it disappeared from my hand and goes to theirs. It fries them.
Rob [/quote]

Love this idea!!!!
I'm on vacation at the beach w family. We have a talent show Saturday and I'm going to use this. Thank you for sharing!!

I'm also going to do Deans Beads before or after this. The beads will be "pirate beads"

Now I just need some gold coins and a $he!!.

:)
Message: Posted by: Infographicmagicreviews (Aug 24, 2015 08:54PM)
Can someone point out the different between this and SansMinds Sharpie?

There is a huge price gap between these two product. SansMinds Sharpie $35 (you could get a mini version for $25) and Double Cross is $60.

Does Double Cross have a significant improvement or does it include something extra? After all it is $25 more than the SM sharpie or $35 more than the pocket sm sharpie..
Message: Posted by: Jared (Aug 24, 2015 09:19PM)
Yes, buy Chris Smith's...he's one of the nicest guys in the industry and he makes reliable products. SansMinds....ah, don't get me started.
Message: Posted by: Joaquin (Aug 24, 2015 10:16PM)
I received an email today from Theory11 promoting this effect.

I like it and went ahead and order it. However, I also liked a lot the first card effect that Dan White performs. Can anyone let me know the name of the first effect

Here is the link

https://store.theory11.com/products/double-cross-by-mark-southworth
Message: Posted by: Gregory Wilson (Aug 24, 2015 11:12PM)
Just got off the phone with Chad Long who told me all the contention that is being bandied about with Double Cross. Well, are you ready for even more scuttlebutt? Chris Smith and I were partners twenty years ago and this idea, called "The X'r," was from our project board way back then! No, I didn't make the "X" translocate from my hand to their hand. But I did have the idea of an "X" that gets transferred to the spectator's palm via a stamp. There were two methods: A) An ink pad on my finger. B) A self-contained ink pad in the Sharpie -- just like the Super Sharpie that Chris "borrowed" from me many years ago.

I've never mentioned it publicly before since I shy away from controversy until it hits me square in the face, but the primary reason I split my partnership with Chris about ten years ago was that his hands were much too sticky where they didn't belong for far too long.

Granted, Gary Jones very well might have thought of this trick independently. He's a very clever chap. And now, unfortunately, he has to experience the same stinging pain of betrayal that I have from Chris NUMEROUS times.

Even worse, is that I can no longer put out MY OWN trick without looking like a thief from Chris!!! The only defense he had at Magic Live was that other people thought of the same trick. Perhaps, but they were not Chris' partner -- firmly and fully aware of the EXACT IDEA for TWO DECADES. In short, Chris should have treated this effect like Kryptonite!

His pattern is truly shameful.
Message: Posted by: gjmagic (Aug 25, 2015 03:07AM)
[quote]On Aug 25, 2015, Gregory Wilson wrote:
Just got off the phone with Chad Long who told me all the contention that is being bandied about with Double Cross. Well, are you ready for even more scuttlebutt? Chris Smith and I were partners twenty years ago and this idea, called "The X'r," was from our project board way back then! No, I didn't make the "X" translocate from my hand to their hand. But I did have the idea of an "X" that gets transferred to the spectator's palm via a stamp. There were two methods: A) An ink pad on my finger. B) A self-contained ink pad in the Sharpie -- just like the Super Sharpie that Chris "borrowed" from me many years ago.

I've never mentioned it publicly before since I shy away from controversy until it hits me square in the face, but the primary reason I split my partnership with Chris about ten years ago was that his hands were much too sticky where they didn't belong for far too long.

Granted, Gary Jones very well might have thought of this trick independently. He's a very clever chap. And now, unfortunately, he has to experience the same stinging pain of betrayal that I have from Chris NUMEROUS times.

Even worse, is that I can no longer put out MY OWN trick without looking like a thief from Chris!!! The only defense he had at Magic Live was that other people thought of the same trick. Perhaps, but they were not Chris' partner -- firmly and fully aware of the EXACT IDEA for TWO DECADES. In short, Chris should have treated this effect like Kryptonite!

His pattern is truly shameful. [/quote]

Wow! I must admit, when I came up with the idea I was quite surprised it hadn't been done before, up until then I had been using a number of methods including Rocco's and one I had made myself inside a TT. All of these methods are great but they all involved a separate ink pad. I also used an impromptu method with a sharpie, basically I would remove the cap from a mini sharpie and mark their hand, much like the ash trick. It was then I had the idea of a stamp built into the sharpie!

I don't want to keep bringing up the sordid history of being double crossed by Mark Southworth, his role in this fiasco was, he knew of someone who could make it for me, and that was it, although he claims it was his (Mark and I both mentioned other stamps like symbols etc, but this was after I had told him of my original idea of a self-contained unit) Enough about that, the truth is known by those that matter, but it is strange that Mark hasn't even promoted "his" product?

Now obviously I had no idea that Gregory Wilson had also come up with this idea many years ago so Greg was also shafted, this is also terrible. So both Gregory and I have been shafted well good and proper, Greg more than I because he had the idea way before I did!

I know most people don't really care these days about this type of theft, most are just happy that the effect is great and and they have great fun using it, but for creators it leaves us cold. It's not the money, or anything to do with ego, it's all about trust and respect!

I'm really sorry to hear this Greg, it was bad enough for me being ripped off by a so called mate, it must be even worse for you.

The most annoying thing is, hundreds have been sold and a few pockets have been lined in gold and it wasn't even their idea.

Not much more I can say, there are those who wouldn't believe Greg or I, there are those who don't care full stop. The thing is, it's out there with the wrong crediting, not much can be done about that now.....which is a real pity!

Gary Jones.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Aug 25, 2015 06:21AM)
Well I think Chris gave you both plenty of time to release your version, which you didn't, so I don't see the problem. I for one am glad Chris finally released it to the magic community.
Message: Posted by: benmagic1 (Aug 25, 2015 06:45AM)
[quote]On Aug 25, 2015, pegasus wrote:
Well I think Chris gave you both plenty of time to release your version, which you didn't, so I don't see the problem. I for one am glad Chris finally released it to the magic community. [/quote]

I think you had better check your facts, this isn't the case !

And if this were true, it is still theft, as Gary clearly mentions above, people no longer care about theft, as your comment cleary shows !

Ben
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Aug 25, 2015 09:53AM)
I think it's a shame that there's such disputes over the origin of the prop. However I don’t feel bad about having purchased it. There's no other such prop available to purchase.

Greg, Gary: What would be your recommendations regarding purchasing Double Cross? If I had known at the time when I made the purchase I would certainly looked for the version that was the original, but I don’t believe there are any other versions of this out there.

Thanks!

Jim
Message: Posted by: Gregory Wilson (Aug 25, 2015 10:06AM)
Wow, Pegasus, really?!?!

If you're happy that Chris greedily released something that WASN'T HIS to the magic community, I think your moral compass needs a little tune up.

And, frankly, I'm glad to hear your honesty though, since I can finally put a face to the anonymous consumers who don't care about creative propriety or provenance.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Aug 25, 2015 11:46AM)
You cannot sit on an idea indefinitely and then moan when someone else takes the initiative and releases an effect to the magic community. I'm glad I supported Chris. He's a nice fella and I don't appreciate him being slagged off on here when he's not around to defend himself. Why not visit him face to face and tell him what you think??
Message: Posted by: Jared (Aug 25, 2015 12:01PM)
I am disappointed to learn about the storied background regarding this product. I would venture to guess that "most" of us make every effort to support the original creator's. However, as a consumer of magic products, we do not always know the true origins of creative discoveries. My past dealings with Chris Smith have always been good (speaking ONLY as a customer) dating back to when he owned his online magic shop. I was not aware about any wrong doings concerning him allegedly stealing intellectual proprietary rights.

I have been a fiercely loyal customer of everything Gregory Wilson has put into the market (I systematically 'add to cart' with every new release),and I've been gaining the same level of confidence with Gary Jones's excellent products. Both creator's have made enormous contributions to the art.

As a consumer, I try to do the right thing. But sometimes we learn about these disputes after purchasing the said product in question. I hope that the industry eventually implements a formal system for creators to register product ideas for limited protection over a set period of years. Obviously, filing for patents with the government makes no sense due to the high costs involved and the limited anticipated turnover. Until then, these squabbles will continue to surface on the forums because apparently some people do not play nice.
Message: Posted by: CarlMcCoy (Aug 25, 2015 01:30PM)
[quote]On Aug 25, 2015, pegasus wrote:
You cannot sit on an idea indefinitely and then moan when someone else takes the initiative and releases an effect to the magic community. I'm glad I supported Chris. He's a nice fella and I don't appreciate him being slagged off on here when he's not around to defend himself. Why not visit him face to face and tell him what you think?? [/quote]


But surely there is a massive difference between sitting on an idea and someone else coming up with the same idea and releasing it...

and

Coming up with an idea, sharing it with someone, sitting on it for whatever reason and then they decide to release it themselves?

Don't know Chris, but am a big fan of Gregory Wilson and Gary Jones and they've always seemed like stand up guys to me.
Message: Posted by: videoman (Aug 25, 2015 01:43PM)
Al I know is that I don't believe that Gregory Wilson or Gary Jones are whiners or complainers. They're both very positive people who have each contributed so much to the magic community. We are truly fortunate to have performers/creators like them. I have never heard of either one them acting dishonestly or mud-slinging without cause.
So when they state their opinion about something I can't help but believe them.

I also think that if you come up with an idea you should be entitled to "sit" on that idea for as long as you wish without having to worry about someone else marketing it without your permission.
Message: Posted by: Gregory Wilson (Aug 25, 2015 05:21PM)
Back to Mr. Pegasus,

I apparently have too much time on my hands today, so here's my two cents worth on creative and marketing decorum . . .

Over the years, I've had numerous tricks that were independently conceived by others who had beaten me to the marketplace either because I procrastinated or tried to jealously guard them for too long. In the spirit and practice of competition, they are the victors -- fair and square! No BMW from me (bitch, moan, whine).

What becomes problematic and painful, however, is when someone in our loyal circle of trust becomes fully aware of a confidential idea/routine and puts it on the market WITHOUT permission. That's theft at worst and bad form at best.

Also, you say that visiting any particular offender in person should be the first course of action. Agreed. But when they refuse to acknowledge or own their sin after said encounter, I think it's entirely appropriate to go public to put them on notice for the next time.

Finally, what makes this so ethically confusing to some is that Chris is indeed a nice fellow; a person whom you feel compelled to support. But nice does not always make right. Nice does not automatically confer someone with faultless and faithful principles of propriety.

Evidently, in this case, Double Cross is perfectly titled as beauty is in the eye of the betrayer!
Message: Posted by: gjmagic (Aug 25, 2015 05:32PM)
[quote]On Aug 25, 2015, pegasus wrote:
You cannot sit on an idea indefinitely and then moan when someone else takes the initiative and releases an effect to the magic community. I'm glad I supported Chris. He's a nice fella and I don't appreciate him being slagged off on here when he's not around to defend himself. Why not visit him face to face and tell him what you think?? [/quote]

I have to disagree with you on this. If you have an idea for an effect and you don't release it for some reason or another, and then someone else independently comes up with the same idea and does release it, then fair play to them. Now, if someone comes up with an effect and they tell someone else, and then that person releases the effect under their own name, no matter what the timescale is, this is theft!

This has happened to me on several occasions, I have had ideas and effects which I've come up with independiately only to find ithey have been done before. The thing is, you have to hold your hands up and accept the fact that we stand on the shoulders of giants.....Something you never do though is, to claim a stolen effect or move as your own!

And yes, I would have no problems to tell them face to face ;-)

Gary Jones.
Message: Posted by: PendletonThe3rd (Aug 25, 2015 05:43PM)
Well, I know for sure that the "card spinning thing"(tm) that MagicSmith just posted on their site is totally legit. As is the "stretchy ring trick" (tm) they have on there too. So at least they have some original ideas...;)

Kidding aside... I did buy Double Cross a while ago and didn't realize all this was going on. Typically, I am a fan of many of MagicSmith's products but this doesn't sound very cool at all.

Out of curiosity to both Greg and Gary, what, if anything would make things right again in this case? Crediting, etc? Or are things way too beyond that at this point?

Either way, sounds like something that Chris should address.
Message: Posted by: gjmagic (Aug 25, 2015 05:57PM)
[quote]On Aug 25, 2015, PendletonThe3rd wrote:
Well, I know for sure that the "card spinning thing"(tm) that MagicSmith just posted on their site is totally legit. As is the "stretchy ring trick" (tm) they have on there too. So at least they have some original ideas...;)

Kidding aside... I did buy Double Cross a while ago and didn't realize all this was going on. Typically, I am a fan of many of MagicSmith's products but this doesn't sound very cool at all.

Out of curiosity to both Greg and Gary, what, if anything would make things right again in this case? Crediting, etc? Or are things way too beyond that at this point?

Either way, sounds like something that Chris should address. [/quote]

You can never go 'too far' and things can always be patched up, but the ball is clearly out of mine and Greg's court at this moment in time!

For me personally, life is too short for holding grudges etc, I would personally like to get this cleared up and move on. This is difficult though as I get spammed daily by magic dealers telling me how good "Mark Southworth's" effect is lol!

I don't know is the answer to this question, and I don't think the silence from Mark or Chris has really helped in the long run!

Move on is probably the best option, unless you can think of a better option? I never forget though!

Gary Jones
Message: Posted by: PendletonThe3rd (Aug 25, 2015 10:35PM)
Thanks for the insight Gary. Sorry to hear you (and Greg) got the short end on this one.

A shame that Chris isn't seeming to at least attempt to make things right. Maybe with enough pressure here that will change? You would think once called out there would be some sort of acknowledgment. And if not, you know what they say about karma....
Message: Posted by: mikenewman (Aug 27, 2015 10:21AM)
I bought this, also not knowing the background. This really sucks!!!

I did buy it second-hand on here actually...

So, I am sorry to Greg and Gary got shafted!! I too, have supported Greg in the past, great creator and amazing to watch and learn from.

@Gary: I have not purchased fom you, but in doing a quick search, Noted 2.0 looks AWESOME!!!! And the I.D. idea is cool! Added to my wishlist!

And you are very right, in that you have to just move on. Be the better person, as much as it sucks. And obviously you won't forget, ever.


Anyone want to buy my Double Cross? JK. But I am not wanting to use it now.... I have had issues anyways, so be it.

Moving on.....
Message: Posted by: Lord*Of*ILLUZION (Sep 1, 2015 05:10PM)
I have also purchased this without knowing the controversy behind it. I have supported Greg Wilson's products, most recently Unleashed, Exact Change, and Revolution, all phenomenal products. I really like some of the MagicSmith releases as well (Ignition comes to mind). There is one other effect that has been marketed long before Double Cross was available and that is Reed McClintock's signature "Stars and Hexes" which I have played around with in the past. The methods aren't entirely similar but the routine involves similar actions with a different way to accomplish a similar finale. I strongly believe that he should also be mentioned in the credits.
Message: Posted by: vinsmagic (Sep 10, 2015 05:50PM)
I have dealt with Chris Smith for over 15 years hes is the most honest personS on the planet..

some people here on this POST ARE CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK
VINNY

PS PS THIS POST SHOULD TAKEN DOWN BECAUSE I IS NOT TRUE WHAT IS SAID ABOUT CHRIS
Message: Posted by: Gregory Wilson (Sep 13, 2015 03:56AM)
Vinny,

Since you're bringing up Chris's character about this particular trick, I'm going to have to call you to the logical carpet since you have ZERO evidence in this regard.

You say that he's the most honest person on the planet. That said, how could you possibly know what happens in someone else's court? How could you know anything outside of your own personal experience with Chris? How could you have the insight to know if he ripped me off or not?

You also say that you've known Chris for 15 years. Well, I've known him for 25 years and this has been his unfortunate pattern since we first put out The Number Two Pencil back in 1995 -- when he tried to sneakily sidestep me on that project as well. To put it generously, he's a VERY SHREWD business man! And just because you don't like to hear those dirty and damaging insights doesn't make it untrue. I've kept this quiet for almost two decades, but when someone defends him without a full command of the facts and without knowing the alternative view, it's hard to keep it to myself anymore.

With all due respect, Vinny, your conjecture and loyalty are admirable but not logical.

And, while we're at it, who is calling the kettle black, as you say? Declaration without substantiation is mere speculation.
Message: Posted by: vinsmagic (Sep 13, 2015 11:14PM)
Gregory I I know you know Chris longer than me I also know he bought the rights to this effect so to say he stole something is not true, I don'know your differences with Chris, but I know him to be a honorable person and if he said he bought the rights I believe him.....sorry I don't know your past history with Chris . as to the kettle and the black we all have our skeletons in the closet .........
I also know your backround.......and this HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR MAGIC ABILITY BECAUSE YOU ARE ONE OF THE BEST ON THE PLANET
So this thread should be closed
vinny
Message: Posted by: CarlMcCoy (Sep 14, 2015 03:41AM)
Maybe you should come right out and say what you want to say Vinny, rather than insinuate things.

This thread should definitely not be closed until you've explained what it is you believe and allowed Gregory Wilson to have his say.

All this mystery does nothing but give people the wrong impression.

Not really fair, wouldn't you agree?
Message: Posted by: vinsmagic (Sep 14, 2015 10:49AM)
CARL I defended my friend Chris because I know him as a friend .. I also know Gregory , and don't know about any beef the two of the have ....
I think it is a shame to say all this on a open forum . I think this should be handled privately.
.....
I haven't heard Chris come on here and defend him,self or say it was true what he is being accused of
this is all I'm saying and nothing more
I said my two cents an d now I bow out
vinny
Message: Posted by: CarlMcCoy (Sep 14, 2015 01:19PM)
Thanks for the reply Vinny. I agree with you that all this should probably be done in private. The problem is that it's all kind out in the open now. Some cats can't be put back in their bags after people have seen them scampering about.

Hope my post to you didn't cause offence.
Message: Posted by: Gregory Wilson (Sep 19, 2015 05:28PM)
Hope this doesn't sound too harsh, Vinny, but you've said your two cents worth like a drive-by shooter who recklessly sprays his bullets in a crowd and leaves a wake of damage and confusion that adds nothing to the argument of Chris' pattern of bad deeds.

This is why Carl advised, "maybe you should say what you want to say and not insinuate things" like "knowing my background" and "having skeletons in the closet" and "the pot calling the kettle black." Not sure what any of that means and how it contributes to the argument or settles the issue of Chris' magical malfeasance.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Sep 19, 2015 10:12PM)
Gregory Wilson,
Your reputation is impeccable. Your products always have a ton of value and you are a Master performer. I've never heard anything to the contrary.
James


[quote]On Sep 19, 2015, Gregory Wilson wrote:
Hope this doesn't sound too harsh, Vinny, but you've said your two cents worth like a drive-by shooter who recklessly sprays his bullets in a crowd and leaves a wake of damage and confusion that adds nothing to the argument of Chris' pattern of bad deeds.

This is why Carl advised, "maybe you should say what you want to say and not insinuate things" like "knowing my background" and "having skeletons in the closet" and "the pot calling the kettle black." Not sure what any of that means and how it contributes to the argument or settles the issue of Chris' magical malfeasance. [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Nikki78 (Sep 20, 2015 03:06AM)
Is this product available at the moment anywhere?
Somehow I can't find it...

Cheers
Nikki
Message: Posted by: Ceierry (Sep 20, 2015 03:13AM)
[quote]On Sep 20, 2015, Nikki78 wrote:
Is this product available at the moment anywhere?
Somehow I can't find it...

Cheers
Nikki [/quote]


https://store.theory11.com/products/double-cross-by-mark-southworth


Found :)
Message: Posted by: Nikki78 (Sep 20, 2015 04:57AM)
Thanks for your help but I don't buy from theory11 because their freight costs are ridiculous.
I'll wait until one of my UK or Swiss dealers will have it in stock again

Thanks
Message: Posted by: vinsmagic (Sep 21, 2015 05:59PM)
Gregory I don't know what you are trying to make of what I said, I know you more as a performer and I know Chris more as a friend.

I did not spry bullets I was defending my friend... and none of us are perfect......
and james I never said ANYTHING ABOUT ANYONE ON THIS THREAD ONLY MY FRIEND CHRIS AND THIS IS HOW I FEEL ABOUT HIM AS A PERSON.I KNOW NOTHING About who stole what.
Message: Posted by: vinsmagic (Sep 21, 2015 06:39PM)
I came across this thread by chance .i can not believe Chris COULD BE ACCUSED OF ANY BAD DOINGS ...

i haven't spoke to Chris on this matter,and he and Gregory may have some differences that i
m not aware of , I my self have nerved heard Chris say a negative thing about anyone this is why I came to his aid
vinny
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Sep 21, 2015 06:56PM)
Hey Vinny,
I have been a fan of yours since the Godfather era, lol. I think what the problem is, and what Gregory took offense to, was your post that said " "knowing my background" and "having skeletons in the closet" and "the pot calling the kettle black." Those types of remarks look like you know something about Gregory that is not above board. Defending your friend is an honorable thing in most cases, but I think there is more to Double cross than what we as casual observers
can see. Both Gary Jones and Gregory Wilson have been burned and personally I believe those two. But who cares who I believe? Not many people I'm sure. Lol.
James
[quote]On Sep 21, 2015, vinsmagic wrote:
Gregory I don't know what you are trying to make of what I said, I know you more as a performer and I know Chris more as a friend.

I did not spry bullets I was defending my friend... and none of us are perfect......
and james I never said ANYTHING ABOUT ANYONE ON THIS THREAD ONLY MY FRIEND CHRIS AND THIS IS HOW I FEEL ABOUT HIM AS A PERSON.I KNOW NOTHING About who stole what. [/quote]
Message: Posted by: vinsmagic (Sep 21, 2015 11:14PM)
Hi James .....BACK ROUND ... I KNOW GREGORY AS A PERFORMER..skeletons in a closet this is general not directed at anyone.
calling the the kettle black there are those that do this,,, I wasn't directing any thing at Gregory. sorry he is taking this personal.....i am not getting caught up in this manipulative bull crap.....all I said I defended my friend
ha.... now I'm the bad guy

vinny
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Sep 21, 2015 11:32PM)
No Vinny, youre a GOOD guy! No worries man.
James

[quote]On Sep 22, 2015, vinsmagic wrote:
Hi James .....BACK ROUND ... I KNOW GREGORY AS A PERFORMER..skeletons in a closet this is general not directed at anyone.
calling the the kettle black there are those that do this,,, I wasn't directing any thing at Gregory. sorry he is taking this personal.....i am not getting caught up in this manipulative bull crap.....all I said I defended my friend
ha.... now I'm the bad guy

vinny [/quote]
Message: Posted by: wanderwizard (Sep 23, 2015 04:36AM)
Gary Jones got me into magic about 6 years ago,I bought THOUGHTWAVE a Gary effect,and one I still use today and I was hooked.so no I will not be buying this either,
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Sep 23, 2015 02:17PM)
Well, stand by your convictions and don't buy it. But No one knows the actual truth here except those involved so you're just assuming you know the whole story. I think it's a shame for people to come and slander someone and it lessens my respect. This isn't the forum for that, there are legal ways of pursuing. I've met both Greg and Chris before and they both seem like great people so it's disheartening to see this. However, I will say that out of all the magicians and creators I've met, Chris Smith was the kindest and most helpful of all. I'm glad I purchased this from him and would so again a hundred times. Just remember there are three sides to every story. One side, the other side and the truth.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Sep 23, 2015 09:48PM)
What about those guys that buy magic because they see girls boobs? They REALLY lose my respect. I would even go so far to say they have no credibility. I mean maybe, they saw boobs and just want to stick up for
the ad that had the boobs.
James

[quote]On Sep 23, 2015, Slackerking wrote:
Well, stand by your convictions and don't buy it. But No one knows the actual truth here except those involved so you're just assuming you know the whole story. I think it's a shame for people to come and slander someone and it lessens my respect. This isn't the forum for that, there are legal ways of pursuing. I've met both Greg and Chris before and they both seem like great people so it's disheartening to see this. However, I will say that out of all the magicians and creators I've met, Chris Smith was the kindest and most helpful of all. I'm glad I purchased this from him and would so again a hundred times. Just remember there are three sides to every story. One side, the other side and the truth. [/quote]
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Sep 23, 2015 11:36PM)
Been drinking, James? ;) :rotf:

Jim
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Sep 24, 2015 01:37AM)
Lot's of coffee Jim, lots.
James

[quote]On Sep 24, 2015, J-Mac wrote:
Been drinking, James? ;) :rotf:

Jim [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Sep 24, 2015 02:52PM)
[quote]On Sep 23, 2015, Xiqual wrote:
What about those guys that buy magic because they see girls boobs? They REALLY lose my respect. I would even go so far to say they have no credibility. I mean maybe, they saw boobs and just want to stick up for
the ad that had the boobs.
James

[quote]On Sep 23, 2015, Slackerking wrote:
Well, stand by your convictions and don't buy it. But No one knows the actual truth here except those involved so you're just assuming you know the whole story. I think it's a shame for people to come and slander someone and it lessens my respect. This isn't the forum for that, there are legal ways of pursuing. I've met both Greg and Chris before and they both seem like great people so it's disheartening to see this. However, I will say that out of all the magicians and creators I've met, Chris Smith was the kindest and most helpful of all. I'm glad I purchased this from him and would so again a hundred times. Just remember there are three sides to every story. One side, the other side and the truth. [/quote] [/quote]

Lol, you got me there, though I was being facetious about buying the effect because of that. If my appreciation of the ladies loses your respect, that's okay but sorry there's a big difference between slandering a persons reputation and appreciating a beautiful woman. But hey, stand by your convictions too.

Oh and secondly, I'm a nobody writing opinions anonymously on a thread not s highly respected magician/creator so I shouldn't have any credibility anyways.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Sep 24, 2015 07:30PM)
Haha, good one.
Just playin man. We all like boobs.
James

[quote]On Sep 24, 2015, Slackerking wrote:
[quote]On Sep 23, 2015, Xiqual wrote:
What about those guys that buy magic because they see girls boobs? They REALLY lose my respect. I would even go so far to say they have no credibility. I mean maybe, they saw boobs and just want to stick up for
the ad that had the boobs.
James

[quote]On Sep 23, 2015, Slackerking wrote:
Well, stand by your convictions and don't buy it. But No one knows the actual truth here except those involved so you're just assuming you know the whole story. I think it's a shame for people to come and slander someone and it lessens my respect. This isn't the forum for that, there are legal ways of pursuing. I've met both Greg and Chris before and they both seem like great people so it's disheartening to see this. However, I will say that out of all the magicians and creators I've met, Chris Smith was the kindest and most helpful of all. I'm glad I purchased this from him and would so again a hundred times. Just remember there are three sides to every story. One side, the other side and the truth. [/quote] [/quote]

Lol, you got me there, though I was being facetious about buying the effect because of that. If my appreciation of the ladies loses your respect, that's okay but sorry there's a big difference between slandering a persons reputation and appreciating a beautiful woman. But hey, stand by your convictions too.

Oh and secondly, I'm a nobody writing opinions anonymously on a thread not s highly respected magician/creator so I shouldn't have any credibility anyways. [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Gaz_Japan (Oct 2, 2015 07:07AM)
Anybody else having problems with the black stuff sticking to your fingers?
Message: Posted by: scott0819 (Oct 2, 2015 08:07AM)
It gets less sticky over time but I've incorporated the light black residue on my finger into my patter.

To make the X travel I mime plucking it through the back of my closed fist with the fingers of the opposite hand and throwing the X towards the spectator's hand. This way I can explain the residue on my finger like this, "look in my palm, you see there's a bit of ink left, and look on my finger there's a bit of ink here too where I grabbed the X and threw it away. Most of the ink has disappeared though, do you know where it went?..."
Message: Posted by: paisa23 (Oct 7, 2015 09:02PM)
Is theory11 the only site that sells this?
Message: Posted by: videoman (Oct 7, 2015 09:28PM)
[quote]On Oct 7, 2015, paisa23 wrote:
Is theory11 the only site that sells this? [/quote]

Straight from the source:

http://www.magicsmith.com
Message: Posted by: paisa23 (Oct 8, 2015 06:06AM)
Was on the fence about this becuase of a similar effect that came out and flopped a few years back by Rocco but I think I'm gonna push the button.
Message: Posted by: m.o.pfeil (Oct 8, 2015 06:16AM)
I have the Rocco effect and for me the (very early in the thread) mentioned issue of pocket management with it was a reason to seldomly use it. THis might be worth a retry.
Message: Posted by: seanksutton (Oct 8, 2015 07:33AM)
[quote]On Oct 8, 2015, paisa23 wrote:
Was on the fence about this becuase of a similar effect that came out and flopped a few years back by Rocco but I think I'm gonna push the button. [/quote]

I have this and it is very good.
Message: Posted by: movemonkey (Oct 8, 2015 02:27PM)
Where can we get refills for the pen?
Message: Posted by: Saturn UK (Oct 8, 2015 02:30PM)
[quote]On Oct 8, 2015, movemonkey wrote:
Where can we get refills for the pen? [/quote]

Yes you can we have an order arriving soon, they are not listed on our website yet.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Nov 9, 2015 02:00PM)
[quote]On Aug 25, 2015, Gregory Wilson wrote:
Just got off the phone with Chad Long who told me all the contention that is being bandied about with Double Cross. Well, are you ready for even more scuttlebutt? Chris Smith and I were partners twenty years ago and this idea, called "The X'r," was from our project board way back then! No, I didn't make the "X" translocate from my hand to their hand. But I did have the idea of an "X" that gets transferred to the spectator's palm via a stamp. There were two methods: A) An ink pad on my finger. B) A self-contained ink pad in the Sharpie -- just like the Super Sharpie that Chris "borrowed" from me many years ago.

I've never mentioned it publicly before since I shy away from controversy until it hits me square in the face, but the primary reason I split my partnership with Chris about ten years ago was that his hands were much too sticky where they didn't belong for far too long.

Granted, Gary Jones very well might have thought of this trick independently. He's a very clever chap. And now, unfortunately, he has to experience the same stinging pain of betrayal that I have from Chris NUMEROUS times.

Even worse, is that I can no longer put out MY OWN trick without looking like a thief from Chris!!! The only defense he had at Magic Live was that other people thought of the same trick. Perhaps, but they were not Chris' partner -- firmly and fully aware of the EXACT IDEA for TWO DECADES. In short, Chris should have treated this effect like Kryptonite!

His pattern is truly shameful. [/quote]

I guess there was more than one reason to call this product Double Cross!
Message: Posted by: Nikki78 (Nov 25, 2015 12:04PM)
Does anyone have problems with the sticky stuff, too?
Somehow it doesn't really stick to my skin. Don't want to go into too much detail here...

Cheers
Nikki
Message: Posted by: paisa23 (Nov 25, 2015 03:01PM)
No I haven't had that problem. What I do have is an evidence issue.. that stuff is leaving a bit of a mark....
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Nov 26, 2015 06:30AM)
The best putty you can use is called "Dexter's putty" It can stick a coin to your skin no problem.

http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S4073

Try it, you'll love it.
James


[quote]On Nov 25, 2015, Nikki78 wrote:
Does anyone have problems with the sticky stuff, too?
Somehow it doesn't really stick to my skin. Don't want to go into too much detail here...

Cheers
Nikki [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Nikki78 (Nov 26, 2015 11:37AM)
Hi James, thanks for the advice... I'll give it a try

Cheers
Nikki
Message: Posted by: GideonK (Nov 26, 2015 10:08PM)
Thanks to everyone who actually reviewed the product I'm probably going to take the plunge in the near future. It just looks so *** good
Message: Posted by: bluesmagic (Nov 27, 2015 02:37PM)
This product costs too much :(
Message: Posted by: Nick Singh (Nov 27, 2015 02:59PM)
[quote]On Nov 25, 2015, paisa23 wrote:
No I haven't had that problem. What I do have is an evidence issue.. that stuff is leaving a bit of a mark.... [/quote]

Exactly the same problem here.
Message: Posted by: gassaox (Nov 28, 2015 05:53AM)
The patter I use is "if I take most of the cross off my hand" etc etc this covers the residue of any ink left on your hand
Message: Posted by: bluesmagic (Nov 28, 2015 08:51AM)
It looks like the only place it doesn't leave residue is in the wallet. :)
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Nov 28, 2015 08:55AM)
I just leave the cross and explain that I can duplicate any image / drawing onto your hand, from mine. For instance let me show you, let's try a cross.
Just as good.
Message: Posted by: Cyberjustice (Nov 29, 2015 07:24AM)
Ok. Finished reading entire thread. Some additional ideas come to mind. Two things specifically.
1) rather then a "sponge pad", save pocket space and use a T.T. with a small wet sponge in it.
2) going to play around with the idea of putting a 1 inch in diameter magnet as oppose to the sticky stuff. Now, ideas could be presented on how to use it. Maybe a metal half skin color toned ring may work. Using a magnet to remove the gimmick would solve the "getting ink on my hand" issue.

Just a couple thoughts of creativity. 😉
Message: Posted by: MR Effecto (Nov 29, 2015 07:59AM)
P.K. ring.
Message: Posted by: ReviewerMaster (Nov 29, 2015 09:49AM)
Just got this and realized it's exactly the same effect taught on a sansmind sharpie DVD. From the routining to the way the ink is used. Not to be a magic police or something. Just out of curiosity because I may have an up and coming release myself, what's considered a rip off? I've seen on the Café some members purposely give certain people or company a hard time, yet the very same case from specific artist or company, no one says anything. Would love to know your thoughts.
Message: Posted by: Saturn UK (Nov 29, 2015 01:18PM)
We have just had a new delivery along with a batch of replacement / refill items to go with this.
Message: Posted by: johndevacmaker (Dec 30, 2015 11:02AM)
Put this in my Christmas show
Absolutely Brilliant
The reaction on the ladies face was amazing
voted trick of the year which is a massive statement but certainly worthy
Message: Posted by: John C (Jan 2, 2016 07:32AM)
[quote]On Sep 24, 2015, Xiqual wrote:
Haha, good one.
Just playin man. We all like boobs.
James

[quote]On Sep 24, 2015, Slackerking wrote:
[quote]On Sep 23, 2015, Xiqual wrote:
What about those guys that buy magic because they see girls boobs? They REALLY lose my respect. I would even go so far to say they have no credibility. I mean maybe, they saw boobs and just want to stick up for
the ad that had the boobs.
James

[quote]On Sep 23, 2015, Slackerking wrote:
Well, stand by your convictions and don't buy it. But No one knows the actual truth here except those involved so you're just assuming you know the whole story. I think it's a shame for people to come and slander someone and it lessens my respect. This isn't the forum for that, there are legal ways of pursuing. I've met both Greg and Chris before and they both seem like great people so it's disheartening to see this. However, I will say that out of all the magicians and creators I've met, Chris Smith was the kindest and most helpful of all. I'm glad I purchased this from him and would so again a hundred times. Just remember there are three sides to every story. One side, the other side and the truth. [/quote] [/quote]

Lol, you got me there, though I was being facetious about buying the effect because of that. If my appreciation of the ladies loses your respect, that's okay but sorry there's a big difference between slandering a persons reputation and appreciating a beautiful woman. But hey, stand by your convictions too.

Oh and secondly, I'm a nobody writing opinions anonymously on a thread not s highly respected magician/creator so I shouldn't have any credibility anyways. [/quote] [/quote]

I do.
Message: Posted by: MoonRazor (Jan 2, 2016 08:38AM)
It was nice of Dan Sperry to tip the method in the promo video.....
Message: Posted by: ScienceMagic1616 (Jan 2, 2016 10:26PM)
Black tack sticking to your skin too much and leaving black smudges?

It happened to me until I contacted Mark and he gave a great solution I wanted to pass on: Go to the local office supply store and buy a pack of cheap thumb tac, either blue or white. $3 will buy a lifetime supply. Break off a small piece of the black tack that comes with double cross, and mix it with the cheap thumb tac. Do it in increments until you get a consistency you like. The black tack is so dark you can mix 1 part black with 5 parts white thumb tac and its still almost dead black. The stickiness deceases only slightly and I find it works perfectly after diluting it in thumb tac. I'm in Los Angeles. Hotter climate = more sticky.

This trick is the bomb, don't let the too sticky tack get in the way. Its much worse to have the opposite problem lol.
Message: Posted by: videoman (Jan 2, 2016 11:55PM)
[quote]On Nov 29, 2015, ReviewerMaster wrote:
Just got this and realized it's exactly the same effect taught on a sansmind sharpie DVD. From the routining to the way the ink is used. Not to be a magic police or something. Just out of curiosity because I may have an up and coming release myself, what's considered a rip off? I've seen on the Café some members purposely give certain people or company a hard time, yet the very same case from specific artist or company, no one says anything. Would love to know your thoughts. [/quote]

You need to read the entire thread.
Message: Posted by: John C (Jan 8, 2016 08:43PM)
Http://madhattermagicshop.com/magicshop/product_info.php?products_id=13756

$35
Message: Posted by: Kuroth (Jan 9, 2016 10:43AM)
[quote]On Jan 8, 2016, John C wrote:
Http://madhattermagicshop.com/magicshop/product_info.php?products_id=13756

$35 [/quote]


Is this site legit? The price is so low.. Just making sure there is not already Chinese knockoffs out there..
Message: Posted by: Jean-Luc.R. (Jan 9, 2016 12:06PM)
[quote]On Jan 9, 2016, Kuroth wrote:
[quote]On Jan 8, 2016, John C wrote:
Http://madhattermagicshop.com/magicshop/product_info.php?products_id=13756

$35 [/quote]


Is this site legit? The price is so low.. Just making sure there is not already Chinese knockoffs out there.. [/quote]

madhattermagicshop.com is a great place to shop and already on the web since so many years !
Bill Groome, Proprietor
Madhatter Magic Shop
106 Merry Dr.
Lexington, S.C. 29072
Message: Posted by: Kuroth (Jan 9, 2016 01:05PM)
Cool.. Thank you.. I ordered at that great price.. Will do more business with them..
Message: Posted by: John C (Jan 13, 2016 06:03PM)
What a beautiful prop!!
Message: Posted by: Red Shadow (Jan 22, 2016 01:39PM)
A review:


The prop:

What you get is a gimmick that looks like a sharpie pen. Its end is slightly different but I doubt anyone would notice. You cannot use this pen for any other routine though. It is not something you can write on cards with. So this pen can only be used for this effect.

The writing on the pen will fade away, as it will with any sharpie. It will probally last as long as the ink inside will last. I don't know how full the ink cartridges inside are, but since they are already selling refills, I imagine it cant do too many performances.

The entire prop is self contained. There is no messy substances in yoru pocket or additional stuff to worry about. However the sticky end may pick up lint, hairs and dirt while in the pocket affecting its performance. You also have to be careful that it does not touch the fabric too much. However it looks manageable and is small enough to evade most problems.

The sticky side is fine from new, but depending on how much dirt gets to it, will affect how long it will last for. It should be easy to replace with some other sticky substance like bees wax though. But my guess is once the ink runs out, it will have all aged together anyway and you'll just buy another when that time comes.


The effect:

This is very, very strong. It does floor them away. The magic happens in their hand and the cross shape helps add to the wtf moment. Similar tricks have been used with lipstick and dots, but the shape is a real fooler. The fact that it has vanished from your hand, and is permanently on there hand is great. There is no gimmick to hide as its all contained in the pen which is justified by you drawing the cross on your hand.

However this is a one-on-one effect. You can perform it for groups, but usually someone else wants it done on them after, which is a problem as they are watching more closely and likely to turn their hand over too early. So getting out off doing any repeat performances may be an issue, especially if table hopping.

Its also small / micro magic as the cross is tiny and while it would work great around the bar and on the street, will be limited by the size of your audience.


Cost / Value:

Perhaps its a little more expensive than I would like. I know magic is a specilist subject with a limited market. That dealers take 2/3 of the price if not more. The manufactoring cost comes out of the creators portion which effects its retail price. So to the consumer who thinks all they are geiing for there $60 is a sharpie pen; its going to seem dear. But this pen is not for you, its for the professionals. The tv and street artists like Dynamo, Blaine and Angel. People with money to spend.

It will need replacing eventually, and refills might keep it going for a while. But all props if used properly need replacing. Even playing cards have a lifespan. Coins get grubby and money gets tacky. Using any prop tarnishes it slightly. The fact that a pen needs replacing shouldnt be a surpirse to anyone.

And when I compare it to say forks that cost me 25p ($50) each time I do the trick, which will give me better value for money? I GUESS they are about the same, so each perfomance will cost you 25p worth of ink.

I do think this is worth buying and using whenever the opportunity allows, its super strong and looks straight out of a TV magic special. College student, hobbyiest and youtubers will find it the most useful. But even professionals will find a place for it, just not as often.
Message: Posted by: jamo425 (Jan 22, 2016 07:36PM)
I love how practical this effect is. Usually I would do this as a stand alone effect if I'm out at the bar or whatever. You can do this if your doing walkaround too as long as you find a way to fit with your routine. But this is really strong, I'd use it to close if I did this doing walkaround. People just freak when they look at their hand, and what's great is I find a lot of times they say "wait but you never touched/came near me..." Chris teaches the whole loading process after you introduce the marker. But personally I like to load before I bring it out. I usually go something like.. "so you ever see the trick..blah blah blah? OK we're gonna try something like that, could you hold out your hands?" Do the move. THEN introduce the sharpie. Done this way, you'll be completely hands off for the rest of the trick and although no one has figured the trick out yet, I feel this way would make it that much harder for them to backtrack. Give it a try!
Message: Posted by: Alex R. Weinberg (Jan 23, 2016 12:43AM)
I just saw this in person and had time to play around with the gimmick.

I am impressed and can give it my recommendation.

-Alex
Message: Posted by: gassaox (Jan 23, 2016 10:24AM)
I have got to say this is one of the best simplest tricks around,just put in your pocket and you ready to go.The reactions you get are priceless.
Message: Posted by: ruzifa (Jan 23, 2016 05:17PM)
This could easily pair with Agus Cross and Alan's Smoke... Hmmm...
Message: Posted by: Markus Ng (Jan 25, 2016 01:44AM)
Really good, totally would recommend it. Performed it and no one realised how I did it although I showed it to the people who are already familiar with my tricks. Only downside is that it is a little pricey but you can always buy the refills at Smith's website. Its expensive but I feel its worth the money.
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Jan 25, 2016 02:02AM)
Ink moving plots had always been an amazement , this is no exception , especially in the spectator's hands . Maybe a routine themed around moving ink/holes will be a killer
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (Jan 29, 2016 06:59PM)
Finally took the plunge. Expensive but absolutely killer. Much stronger than I thought it would be. Perfect "propless" trick.
Message: Posted by: Uncle Joe (Feb 7, 2016 10:56PM)
Any ideas on routines other than the straight forward transposition?
Message: Posted by: bluesmagic (Feb 8, 2016 06:46AM)
Mine should arrive soon !
Message: Posted by: John C (Feb 8, 2016 12:40PM)
[quote]On Feb 7, 2016, Uncle Joe wrote:
Any ideas on routines other than the straight forward transposition? [/quote]


isn't that enough?
Message: Posted by: ruzifa (Feb 8, 2016 11:31PM)
[quote]On Feb 7, 2016, Uncle Joe wrote:
Any ideas on routines other than the straight forward transposition? [/quote]

You could do the inverse... Or pair up with Tjiu's Cross and Alan's Smoke...
Message: Posted by: Kay99 (Feb 12, 2016 06:46AM)
This effect on its own is a killer, I really don't think it needs to be place with another effect tho.. It's my one tool that has actually had me rebooked for walk around gigs.. I love it 😆
Message: Posted by: Kay99 (Feb 12, 2016 06:49AM)
This effect on its own is a killer, I really don't think it needs to be place with another effect tho.. It's my one tool that has actually had me rebooked for walk around gigs.. I love it 😆
Message: Posted by: chuds (Feb 12, 2016 07:22AM)
I bought this 12 months ago and it fry's people, its great to combine it with some pk touch using two people, as you can imagine a cross appearing on the other persons arm 6 ft away is a great climax! its brilliant.
Message: Posted by: Uncle Joe (Feb 12, 2016 10:20PM)
Has anyone combined this with cross- Agus Tjiu?
Message: Posted by: Kay99 (Feb 12, 2016 11:51PM)
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I bought this 12 months ago and it fry's people, its great to combine it with some pk touch using two people, as you can imagine a cross appearing on the other persons arm 6 ft away is a great climax! its brilliant.
Chuds


I actually love that thought Chuds 👍
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Feb 24, 2016 12:22PM)
Does the wax dry out when kept 24 hours on the end cap? If not, how long will it last? I see they give extra. How many times do you use it until the stickiness wears out? Where can additional black wax be purchased? I plan to take mine to my restaurant gig this evening. I would hate placing it back in the plastic container after a few uses.
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (Feb 24, 2016 12:40PM)
When I carry it in my pocket I put another Sharpie cap on the other end. Pretty easy to get off as you take it out of your pocket. This certainly keeps the dust off.
Amazing trick.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Feb 24, 2016 02:56PM)
[quote]On Feb 24, 2016, Xcath1 wrote:
When I carry it in my pocket I put another Sharpie cap on the other end. Pretty easy to get off as you take it out of your pocket. This certainly keeps the dust off.
Amazing trick. [/quote]
Good idea.
Message: Posted by: bluesmagic (Feb 24, 2016 09:46PM)
Big hit every time I do this. It's great !
Thanks for the nice tip with the cap Xcath1. :)
Message: Posted by: paisa23 (Feb 24, 2016 10:23PM)
[quote]On Feb 24, 2016, bluesmagic wrote:
Big hit every time I do this. It's great !
Thanks for the nice tip with the cap Xcath1. :) [/quote]

That works. I found tho that with a little dust it still does what it needs too and lessens the chance of any left over stuff on your thingy...
Message: Posted by: bluesmagic (Feb 25, 2016 06:21AM)
Yes, very true. I found that out as well.
Message: Posted by: Chad Gill (Feb 25, 2016 10:37AM)
The thing it comes with is too sticky for me. I have a hard time getting rid of it.
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (Feb 25, 2016 11:00AM)
I would say use less, you need very little and get used to it not sticky too tightly but I wonder if it has to do with skin type, temperature and humidity as well
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Feb 25, 2016 01:33PM)
I used it many times last night. The stickiness never went away. I did not know a tiny amount was going to last so long.

I do not like getting the ink on my thumb when taking off the one piece.

I kept mine in my shirt collar hanging it by the cap's clip. I had no worries of dust getting to it.

I like the clip of Dan White doing it on his arm. That is how I did it last night to all the patrons at the restaurant. That way never failed and I do not have to put the cap in my mouth.

Some of you might want to carry those alcohol packets with you when you do it incase the spectator wants it off immediately.
Message: Posted by: Tim Hannig (Mar 30, 2016 04:19PM)
[quote]On Feb 24, 2016, Xcath1 wrote:
When I carry it in my pocket I put another Sharpie cap on the other end. Pretty easy to get off as you take it out of your pocket. This certainly keeps the dust off.
Amazing trick. [/quote]

This is the best tip on this thread! Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Ihmemies (Apr 12, 2016 04:11PM)
[quote]On Nov 26, 2015, Nikki78 wrote:
Hi James, thanks for the advice... I'll give it a try

Cheers
Nikki [/quote]

Hey, I'm having the same problem. The black stuff doesn't stick too well here either. I guess it's skin type.
Has this worked?
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (Apr 12, 2016 06:04PM)
Make sure it's not too cold.. I have very little on my pen but mush it up a little with thumb and forefinger before I use it. Makes it softer.
Message: Posted by: Ihmemies (May 4, 2016 02:40AM)
[quote]On Apr 12, 2016, Xcath1 wrote:
Make sure it's not too cold.. I have very little on my pen but mush it up a little with thumb and forefinger before I use it. Makes it softer. [/quote]

It's not the coldness, definitely skin type. I even ordered octopalm to try if that helped out, but not really. If there's any moisture in the fingers things will not stick whether using octopalm or the black stuff
Message: Posted by: Nick Singh (May 14, 2016 11:54AM)
[quote]On Feb 24, 2016, Xcath1 wrote:
When I carry it in my pocket I put another Sharpie cap on the other end. Pretty easy to get off as you take it out of your pocket. This certainly keeps the dust off.
Amazing trick. [/quote]

***, why didn't I think of that. That's perfect!
Message: Posted by: Alex DLF (May 14, 2016 12:02PM)
Be careful, if you push the sharpie cap too much, the gimmick can stay locked inside it..
Message: Posted by: bluesmagic (May 14, 2016 02:36PM)
[quote]On May 14, 2016, Alex DLF wrote:
Be careful, if you push the sharpie cap too much, the gimmick can stay locked inside it.. [/quote]


Thanks for that ! I was suspecting that could happen but was scared to try. :D
Message: Posted by: pegasus (May 15, 2016 08:40AM)
[quote]On Apr 12, 2016, Xcath1 wrote:
Make sure it's not too cold.. I have very little on my pen but mush it up a little with thumb and forefinger before I use it. Makes it softer. [/quote]

Don't worry, I also have very little when it's too cold. :rotf:
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (May 15, 2016 12:28PM)
😈
Message: Posted by: otreboR (May 22, 2016 10:46AM)
Dynamo performing "Double Cross"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVJ7OFXLAOM
Message: Posted by: bluesmagic (May 22, 2016 12:55PM)
[quote]On May 22, 2016, otreboR wrote:
Dynamo performing "Double Cross"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVJ7OFXLAOM [/quote]


The only special thing about that performance is the editing. :)
Message: Posted by: pegasus (May 22, 2016 08:24PM)
There's no way you could perform this on TV without edits. Just in the same way you can never perform this to anyone who has ever seen the effect performed before.
Message: Posted by: bluesmagic (May 22, 2016 09:23PM)
You're absolutely right, Sir. :)
Message: Posted by: Gaz_Japan (May 23, 2016 01:42AM)
Saw this on TV the other month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VvLuHA4Wpk

Starts at 5:45
Message: Posted by: MR Effecto (May 23, 2016 11:48AM)
[quote]On May 22, 2016, pegasus wrote:
There's no way you could perform this on TV without edits. Just in the same way you can never perform this to anyone who has ever seen the effect performed before. [/quote]


Bam!!!!! See above
Message: Posted by: scott0819 (May 24, 2016 06:40AM)
[quote]On May 23, 2016, MR Effecto wrote:
[quote]On May 22, 2016, pegasus wrote:
There's no way you could perform this on TV without edits. Just in the same way you can never perform this to anyone who has ever seen the effect performed before. [/quote]


Bam!!!!! See above [/quote]

The last guy I performed this for was familiar with the ashes on the palm trick; used to perform it I think because he started to explain the working of "his" trick to the group. In my head I was thinking oh no...

Well, he and everyone else was still blown away because 1. Of the vanishing of the ink in my palm and 2. Because I drew an "X" on her palm without her seeing. He was trying so hard to get passed that mental block for several minutes and couldn't. He was convinced it was different method entirely. It was a lovely thing to watch.
Message: Posted by: Nick Singh (May 24, 2016 12:14PM)
I'd like to thank Chris Smith for sending me the instructions for Double Cross again. I lost my manual and password but I wanted to have a look at it. Sent Chris an email with my receipt and he replied within a couple of hours. Thanks for the great service!
Message: Posted by: Kaliix (May 24, 2016 12:55PM)
Great post! Where oh where is Michael Jay when you need him?

[quote]On May 24, 2016, scott0819 wrote:
[quote]On May 23, 2016, MR Effecto wrote:
[quote]On May 22, 2016, pegasus wrote:
There's no way you could perform this on TV without edits. Just in the same way you can never perform this to anyone who has ever seen the effect performed before. [/quote]


Bam!!!!! See above [/quote]

The last guy I performed this for was familiar with the ashes on the palm trick; used to perform it I think because he started to explain the working of "his" trick to the group. In my head I was thinking oh no...

Well, he and everyone else was still blown away because 1. Of the vanishing of the ink in my palm and 2. Because I drew an "X" on her palm without her seeing. He was trying so hard to get passed that mental block for several minutes and couldn't. He was convinced it was different method entirely. It was a lovely thing to watch. [/quote]
Message: Posted by: GodSpeed23 (May 26, 2016 12:34PM)
[quote]On Jan 23, 2016, ruzifa wrote:
This could easily pair with Agus Cross and Alan's Smoke... Hmmm... [/quote]

That's exactly what I have been doing. Cross combined with Double Cross is an absolute knock out.
Message: Posted by: James Warren (Aug 6, 2016 10:58PM)
Just got this, and did it half a dozen times at a strolling gig today, with great reactions. HOWEVER....

(1) On one occasion I pulled the Sharpie out of my jacket pocket and the gimmick wasn't on it! Evidently it had stuck to the bottom of my pocket. So after that I learned to carry the Sharpie upside down in my pocket so the sticky stuff doesn't contact anything.

(2) Another occasion was disastrous: I uncapped the Sharpie to draw the X on my hand, and instead of placing the cap temporarily into my mouth (recommended in the instructions, but which looks tacky to me), or placing it down on a table, I stuck it onto the end of the Sharpie. After drawing the X on my hand, I attempted to recap the Sharpie but the cap wouldn't go back on. For a few seconds I was confused and didn't know what the heck was happening. Then I realized that the gimmick had lodged itself inside the cap! I managed to get through the trick (which was still impressive to the spectators, despite my fumbling), and spent the next 10 minutes trying to get the ***ed gimmick out of the cap: squeezing the cap, banging the cap on the floor, using a stick to try to dig it out.... I ended up having to destroy the cap with a Swiss army knife. Fortunately, I had another Sharpie with me, which I sacrificed in order to have a cap for the Double-Cross Sharpie. (Didn't want the special ink to dry up!)

(3) One of the first spectators I did this for was a kid, I would guess about 12 years old. He seemed amazed. But 10 minutes later when I was doing the trick for someone else, he showed up and started blurting out, "You have a stamp and you stamped my hand, and you have a trick Sharpie!" I am convinced that this kid was not familiar with magic, or with this trick in particular, before seeing me do it, nor had he talked with anyone afterwards. He simply saw through the method, at least in basic principle, if not in precise detail. Generally, this is enough for me to throw out a trick, because it means that many adults will think the same thing if they take the time to reflect afterwards; but they are usually too polite to say anything. On the other hand, one of the reasons I bought this trick is because a magician friend of mine said that he was doing a gig in L.A. last week, and a woman from England came up to him and enthusiastically raved about a magician she had seen back in Brittan a few weeks prior, who made an X vanish from his hand and appear on hers. And then her step-son came up 15 minutes later and related the same story! Both of these people were academy award winning film producers. So, I guess I will continue to work with the routine for a while and see what the reactions are. I always do recommend, however, performing routines for middle schoolers if you want to find out if it is truly deceptive. LOL

(4) I found that a perfect lead into this trick is Ring Flite. I ask a woman to hold out her hands palm down, and I take a look at her ring(s), in the meantime doing the "dirty work." Then I do my ring flight routine. Then when I do Double Cross, it has been "ages" since I was anywhere near her hand, and neither she nor anybody else has any sense that I even approached, much less touched, her hand. Although it might seem risky to allow her (or him) to go so long with an X on their hand, hoping they will not notice it, I have found that in fact they do not notice it. And, believe me, after my experience with that 10 year old kid, I strongly emphasized the fact that I had not come anywhere near the spectator's hand, and that I am standing far back. This really elevates the impossibility and perhaps helps to complicate any idea that I "stamped" her hand, since I did it five minutes earlier, and I have emphasized my distance from her hands.

Finally.... would someone please check the cap that came with your gimmicked Sharpie, and see if it is a normal cap? Or does it have a kind of extra narrow tube inside of it. Because when I destroyed the cap on mine, it did have such a tube, and other Sharpies I have at home do not. I am wondering if that tube is purposefully built into the cap in order to further insulate the tip from contact with air that would dry it out faster. If so, I am going to need to get another cap or buy another complete Sharpie, I guess.
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (Aug 7, 2016 12:10AM)
As noted in a previous post, a second sharpie cap over the stamp end of the marker will keep it clean in your pocket
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Aug 7, 2016 01:33AM)
If you're worried about the ink drying out , just tape the cap to the pen when storing and it'll prevent the ink from drying out due to contact with air completely .
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Aug 7, 2016 02:52AM)
[quote]On May 22, 2016, pegasus wrote:
There's no way you could perform this on TV without edits. Just in the same way you can never perform this to anyone who has ever seen the effect performed before. [/quote]


Read above. You can never perform this at a strolling gig. How incredibly foolish.
Message: Posted by: James Warren (Aug 7, 2016 10:39AM)
[quote]On Aug 7, 2016, Xcath1 wrote:
As noted in a previous post, a second sharpie cap over the stamp end of the marker will keep it clean in your pocket [/quote]

You must not have read my entire post. Putting a cap on the stamp end of the Sharpie is exactly how the stamp gimmick became impossibly stuck in the cap.
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (Aug 7, 2016 11:11AM)
Sorry James, I am sure that can happen, it has not happened to me and I use the cap from a regular sharpie on the back. Don't push to tight I guess
Message: Posted by: Kaliix (Aug 7, 2016 02:07PM)
The 12 year old who was telling you how you did the trick was not guessing. I'm fairly certain he just googled the trick. One search will give the name of the trick and a second with the trick name plus the search term "revealed" (which google usually helpfully suggests, not) would have given him the information. I've had a middle school kid google a trick I did for him (Prohibition) and come back and tell me how I did it within 5 minutes. It happens. Maybe do double cross a little less often in the future.

Jared's advice in terms of the saliva and cap in mouth is worth considering...

[quote]On May 31, 2015, Jared wrote:
Double Cross is now one of my favorite strolling effects. I've had this for a couple of months but it stayed in my drawer because I was not comfortable with the "saliva move" for lack of better description. I also found that saliva was less than reliable at times. Somebody posted on this thread about a finger moist pad that you could put in your pocket, and so I found one on EBay. The finger pad worked great (erases the mark perfectly) but it was too large. The pad took almost an entire pocket. And so I visited a local Walgreen's store and found a teenager's eye shadow case, which is slightly larger than a half dollar. I cut the foam pad from the finger moist pad to size and it works perfectly! My pocket stays dry but yet it retains moisture for hours. I finally performed Double Cross over the weekend to great success. Trust me, this little finger pad makes ALL the difference...it's 100% reliable and the action is motivated (putting the pen away)plus you can get just the right amount of moisture without your fingers being dripping wet. If you own Double Cross you should give this a try. [/quote]


[quote]On Aug 6, 2016, James Warren wrote:
Just got this, and did it half a dozen times at a strolling gig today, with great reactions. HOWEVER....

(1) On one occasion I pulled the Sharpie out of my jacket pocket and the gimmick wasn't on it! Evidently it had stuck to the bottom of my pocket. So after that I learned to carry the Sharpie upside down in my pocket so the sticky stuff doesn't contact anything.

(2) Another occasion was disastrous: I uncapped the Sharpie to draw the X on my hand, and instead of placing the cap temporarily into my mouth (recommended in the instructions, but which looks tacky to me), or placing it down on a table, I stuck it onto the end of the Sharpie. After drawing the X on my hand, I attempted to recap the Sharpie but the cap wouldn't go back on. For a few seconds I was confused and didn't know what the heck was happening. Then I realized that the gimmick had lodged itself inside the cap! I managed to get through the trick (which was still impressive to the spectators, despite my fumbling), and spent the next 10 minutes trying to get the ***ed gimmick out of the cap: squeezing the cap, banging the cap on the floor, using a stick to try to dig it out.... I ended up having to destroy the cap with a Swiss army knife. Fortunately, I had another Sharpie with me, which I sacrificed in order to have a cap for the Double-Cross Sharpie. (Didn't want the special ink to dry up!)

(3) One of the first spectators I did this for was a kid, I would guess about 12 years old. He seemed amazed. But 10 minutes later when I was doing the trick for someone else, he showed up and started blurting out, "You have a stamp and you stamped my hand, and you have a trick Sharpie!" I am convinced that this kid was not familiar with magic, or with this trick in particular, before seeing me do it, nor had he talked with anyone afterwards. He simply saw through the method, at least in basic principle, if not in precise detail. Generally, this is enough for me to throw out a trick, because it means that many adults will think the same thing if they take the time to reflect afterwards; but they are usually too polite to say anything. On the other hand, one of the reasons I bought this trick is because a magician friend of mine said that he was doing a gig in L.A. last week, and a woman from England came up to him and enthusiastically raved about a magician she had seen back in Brittan a few weeks prior, who made an X vanish from his hand and appear on hers. And then her step-son came up 15 minutes later and related the same story! Both of these people were academy award winning film producers. So, I guess I will continue to work with the routine for a while and see what the reactions are. I always do recommend, however, performing routines for middle schoolers if you want to find out if it is truly deceptive. LOL

(4) I found that a perfect lead into this trick is Ring Flite. I ask a woman to hold out her hands palm down, and I take a look at her ring(s), in the meantime doing the "dirty work." Then I do my ring flight routine. Then when I do Double Cross, it has been "ages" since I was anywhere near her hand, and neither she nor anybody else has any sense that I even approached, much less touched, her hand. Although it might seem risky to allow her (or him) to go so long with an X on their hand, hoping they will not notice it, I have found that in fact they do not notice it. And, believe me, after my experience with that 10 year old kid, I strongly emphasized the fact that I had not come anywhere near the spectator's hand, and that I am standing far back. This really elevates the impossibility and perhaps helps to complicate any idea that I "stamped" her hand, since I did it five minutes earlier, and I have emphasized my distance from her hands.

Finally.... would someone please check the cap that came with your gimmicked Sharpie, and see if it is a normal cap? Or does it have a kind of extra narrow tube inside of it. Because when I destroyed the cap on mine, it did have such a tube, and other Sharpies I have at home do not. I am wondering if that tube is purposefully built into the cap in order to further insulate the tip from contact with air that would dry it out faster. If so, I am going to need to get another cap or buy another complete Sharpie, I guess. [/quote]
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Aug 7, 2016 02:53PM)
I agree Kaliix. Google is our very worst enemy. What you must consider is that there are hundreds of websites trying to sell the exact effect that we're trying to perform.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=cross+on+hand+magic+trick&oq=cross+on+hand+magic+&aqs=chrome.0.0j69i57.8211j0j4&client=tablet-android-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
Message: Posted by: James Warren (Aug 8, 2016 03:40PM)
Kaliix, actually, I am convinced that the 12 year old kid had no access to a smartphone or laptop. He didn't run off immediately after seeing my trick, borrow a phone (he wasn't carrying one), and google the trick. I mean, let's face it, anyone who thinks about it will realize that the only possible explanation is that the magician secretly marked their hand. Which, by the way, is why I totally agree with those who have said that an X in permanent ink is more deceptive than ashes, because it is more difficult to figure out how the magician could have secretly done this. I did the trick for my own 13 year old son this morning. His immediate reaction was utter disbelief and astonishment. Then, about 15 seconds later, he started blurting out, "You drew it on my hand when you had me hold my hands out!" Now, if it had been ashes, there's not much I could have said to dissuade him of that opinion; but because it was a sharply defined X, I could say to him, "How could I have drawn on your hand with a pen without your knowing it?" And that brought him back to befuddlement. Granted, the immediate reaction to the ashes trick is no doubt everything that could be desired. But if you are concerned about how transparent the method may be to those who continue to think about it later, the inked X is certainly harder to explain. (Though maybe not all that unlikely, given my experience with the 12 year old boy.)

Anyway, Google is part of the reason at least 80% of my close-up magic is cards. (The other part of the reason is that I simply love card magic.) Secrets are hidden deeply in expensive tomes, and even those secrets that are out and about will be difficult to discover, since I don't do "Cardtoon" or other popularly marketed card effects that could easily be Googled.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Aug 8, 2016 04:38PM)
I hear you James. I only buy effects that cannot be traced back to the Internet, which are getting few and far between.
Message: Posted by: SleepyMagic (Aug 8, 2016 04:52PM)
I guess maybe to help your situation James maybe do a trick before double cross and transfer the X then...and then when you come to perform double cross say something om the lines of "OK from now I'm not going to touch you..place your hands out for me like this..." And since the X is already planted you don't need to "adjust" their hands..

I was thinking doing a card trick before and telling them okay place your hand out (demonstrate it palm up)...and after they place their hand out palm up...you turn their hand over so its palm down (this is where you plant the X) and then you ask them to make a pointy finger..as in curl all their other fingers except the pointy one so they have a pointer... Go through the deck and ask them to touch a card with their finger...do a card trick..then move onto double cross.


Of course with this you've got to be careful your spec doesn't see the cross prematurely... But it can be done I think

Sleepy
Message: Posted by: James Warren (Aug 8, 2016 10:20PM)
Sleepy, see my original post on the previous page. There I mention that after my experience with the boy (which was only the second time I had ever done the trick), I started doing Ring Flite first. This is a perfect routine for this purpose, because you can have the spectator hold out their hands, palm down, under the pretext of seeing whether they are wearing a ring. You can even move in for a closer look at the ring, make a comment about how lovely it is, or use some other such excuse. I found after four or five performances that no one ever noticed the X on their palm, even when I returned the ring and they slipped it back on their finger. Some guys might think that's a bit gutsy, but I trusted in the power of misdirection -- or, better, "directed attention." The spectator is already blown away by the Ring Flite effect, and their mind is performing two tasks at once: trying to take in the amazement of what they have just witnessed, plus the motor action of putting the ring back onto their finger. I think they could have an elephant drawn on one of their palms and they would not notice it at this moment. Now you now back away a good distance from the spectator to begin the Double Cross routine, stressing, as you mentioned, that you will not approach the spectator at any time. That really does compound the mystery.

I suppose it's like any trick where a signed card or ring ends up in a box or sealed envelope. The audience knows, obviously, that you "got it in there" somehow -- but that's not really an explanation. And doing Double Cross the way I described it above, they have no clue how you could possibly have marked their hand, even if they will know that somehow you did.

Having said that puts me in mind of what, to me, is an important distinction in magic. Some tricks fall into the category of "they don't know HOW you did it, but they know WHAT you did." Other tricks are of the category: "they don't have any idea WHAT you did or HOW you did it." The whole thing is just a total mind-screw.

I am willing to do a few effects in the former category if they are fun and have great entertainment value, but I prefer most of my magic to fall into the latter category. Double Cross does not qualify, IMO, for the latter category, because spectators who think about it later will know WHAT you did, even if they have no precise idea as to HOW you did it.

This distinction is important to me because I want to blow away even the tough-minded thinkers. For example, I once showed two of my favorite effects to a friend. He had accompanied me to the Magic Castle one night, and after each show he spent a long time analyzing certain tricks, trying to figure them out. He just couldn't stand not knowing. (His father had been a California Supreme Court Judge -- he certainly inherited an analytical mind!) Anyway, the two tricks I did for him were Chicago Opener (Whit Hayden's version) and ring in sealed envelope in wallet. The ring trick is a go-to effect for me when I really want to blow people away and getting them to remember me. I have had a few occasions where someone has run into me 5, even 10 years later, and brings up the ring in wallet/envelope moment in their life. As for Chicago Opener, it was indeed my close-up opener for 15 years at strolling gigs, and after performing it people would regularly say, "Wow, you're good!"

So I show these two routines to my friend. His reaction? Chicago Opener absolutely slayed him -- probably kept him up half the night! -- because he had no way to explain how I could have turned the card under his hand into the card that he had just "freely" chosen from the rest of the deck. (In Whit's routine, you actually show the spectator the FACES of the cards and let them take whatever card they want. So the force felt 100% free to my friend. He had no possible way to explain: (1) how the card under his hand could change (since it was obviously under his hand from the beginning; and (2) change into the card he just freely selected from the rest of the deck. In other words, he had no idea WHAT I did, and therefore no idea HOW I did it. And he was visibly shaken by the experience.

His reaction to ring in wallet was quite different. He didn't react nearly so radically, and that surprised me. When I asked him why, he replied, "Well, with that trick I know what you did -- you secretly got my ring into a sealed envelope. I don't know HOW you did it, but obviously you had some way to do it. It was a very clever and skillful thing to do, but it's not magical because I know what you did, even if I don't know how."

"But with the other trick," (Chicago Opener) he said, "I don't even know where to start! You couldn't possibly have known that I would pick the Queen of Hearts, and I know I picked that card freely: I saw the Queen of Hearts in the deck, and I deliberately reached for it. So even if you could somehow have switched the card under my hand, you wouldn't have known what card to switch it for."

He had no idea WHAT or HOW. This is similar to Erdnase's famous line, about executing skills that "the most critical observer would not even suspect, let alone detect." Don't think Double Cross falls into that category. But I'm still going to play with it for a while, and see what happens.

Sorry for the dissertation, guys. I hope some of you find it interesting.
Message: Posted by: baronrittl (Aug 11, 2016 10:38AM)
Thanks James , I'm new in Magic and buyd Doublecross . You rly help me out .

greets from Germany
Message: Posted by: videoman (Aug 11, 2016 11:49AM)
James, I very much like your idea of using Ring Flite as a lead-in to Double Cross. My only concern with your presentation as you described it is if you only have time to perform those 2 effects for a group then you will have involved only a single person, using the same person for both effects.

I'm wondering how it would play if you perhaps had more than one person hold their hand out and look at a couple rings and secretly mark a person and do not use their ring but someone else's instead, at least whenever this is possible of course. This may also help improve the odds of the person not noticing the X prematurely, although I understand that this has not been an issue for you so far.
Message: Posted by: leosx1 (Aug 11, 2016 12:09PM)
Concerning google and magic tricks : at the very moment of his performance the magician puts the spectators mind in a state of astonishment. should the spectactor decide to google the effect afterwards therebye diminishing his experience, this should not be the concern of the magician.
Message: Posted by: funboy247 (Sep 14, 2016 08:00AM)
Hi,
I`m from germany and I perform double cross every time. I have really good reactions.
ONE QUESTION: Where can I get this sticking puddy from?

Kai
Message: Posted by: Nikki78 (Sep 14, 2016 01:01PM)
[quote]On Sep 14, 2016, funboy247 wrote:
Hi,
I`m from germany and I perform double cross every time. I have really good reactions.
ONE QUESTION: Where can I get this sticking puddy from?

Kai [/quote]

Hi Kai,
Try this stuff (although it's not black I never had problems) : http://zauberdiscount.de/Zubehoer/Dexters-Flesh-Colored-Putty-presented-by-Michael-Ammar::4913.html
Message: Posted by: JasonL2112 (Sep 14, 2016 01:56PM)
The whole thing around google and spectators looking up tricks etc... While this is certainly real, it often makes me wonder why, at least to some degree, some don't feel like this can be controlled... There are several things we can do to make this far less likely.

First, make the routine your own, and NEVER actually refer to the effect by name. Granted, googling "x on hand trick" would get you down the path on this one, but as a better example take Little Door. I've seen some performances online where the performer stated several times "I'm going to draw a little door on the case". Which is essentially feeding the spec exactly what they would have to search for. On the other hand, changing slightly and using the words "small window" instead would make things harder. This is all IF someone actually goes to look...

Second, it always seems FAR less likely to me that a spec would search for a routine if you truly make it your own. This isn't the latest "trick" I added to my repertoire, its more of a - hey, lets try this...
An example for Double Cross may be - "You know, I've noticed a funny thing lately. I've been eating more (insert random food) lately, and I've noticed a few strange things. For one thing, my skin acts odd (explained when you can easily pick up the "permanent" marker you draw on yourself) - Check this out...

Now it doesn't feel like a "trick" so much as something that's happened to you. On the off chance they do go off and search something anyway, maybe they'll google carrots and sharpie's, who knows.

I've personally had nothing but great reactions to double-cross using various different presentations / stories to go around it. This is one I use casually as opposed to a part of an act. For some reason it sticks with people and many mention when I see them again, none have ever come back having looked for it or having figured it out.
Message: Posted by: codydavismagic (Sep 14, 2016 04:17PM)
Double Cross is still one of my favorite tricks, and have always got stellar reactions. Like nobody even questions what happened, it just happens and they are mind blown, or sit there for like 5 minutes trying to get the x off there hand. Highly recommend this, as if you do any close up or walk around, I believe this will go straight into your repertoire.
Message: Posted by: tophatter (Dec 23, 2016 12:08AM)
I just got this yesterday at Tannen's in New York I can already tell it's going to Kill ! I can't wait to perform this . I just read the entire thread just start with the gimmick on already ! Magick the demonstrator at Tannen's did it that way so much easier .
Message: Posted by: Alan Rorrison (Dec 23, 2016 12:33AM)
Its been a while now and this is STILL in my etc. You see " I don't leave the house with out it" in a lot in loads of promos etc but this is something I actually rarely leave the house with out.
Message: Posted by: RSchlutz (Dec 23, 2016 07:03AM)
Alan I completely agree. I usually leave home with a few tricks at first and then stop. Double Cross is an effect I have with me at all times. Since I do a lot card magic it gives me a much needed balance and for me is my closer.

Ryan
Message: Posted by: MagieLucas (Dec 23, 2016 01:03PM)
I agree too about this. I bought mine 2 years ago and still good. I use all the time
Message: Posted by: bluesmagic (Dec 23, 2016 03:38PM)
Same here. Always with me and it just kills. :)
Message: Posted by: funboy247 (Dec 27, 2016 04:53AM)
Hi guys, any hints how to refill the sharpie? My "vanishing ink" is drying out.
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (Dec 27, 2016 08:25AM)
MagicSmith sell refills on his website and I beleive instructions are with device.
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Feb 2, 2017 03:36PM)
Hi all, can someone please tell me if there is any slight residue (even the slightest) left on your finger after you perform the effect? Not the ink but from the putty?
Many thanks
Message: Posted by: MR Effecto (Feb 2, 2017 04:42PM)
I use putty from my gravity putty. Its not black but flesh color. Nobody even notices. Crazy sticky and it lasts like forever. But the block putty it comes with? No residue
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Feb 2, 2017 04:56PM)
Ok thank you - its only if this would be something performed mid set or at the beginning, then obviously you are performing other effects as am worried with possible residue, then this could be a problem when performing other effects having your finger sticky when handling cards etc?
Thanks
Message: Posted by: Racoonmagic (Feb 12, 2017 03:38AM)
The only residue I have found is a bit of black from the gimmick it's self on my thumb? Anyone else?
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Feb 12, 2017 04:30AM)
Yes I'm finding that too now (having bought it) it's as if the putty is colored that deep with a certain ink that the colouring leaves a mark on your skin - which is a bit of a pain.
Message: Posted by: bluesmagic (Feb 12, 2017 08:15AM)
Yeah but it's not a big deal ;)
Message: Posted by: Neznarf (Apr 17, 2017 01:21PM)
Issue Solutions.

Not sure the name of trick but it's the one where you produce flowers from each hand one after another.

I never did it but my magic buddy did.

Anyway he had a moistener that was mounted on the back of his tie. So when he would do this trick he
could wet his fingers for traction.

Also and Alcohol Pad works great if Helper wants to get X off of hand. Also glasses cleaner packets work OK but they will have to rub harder and longer to get X off.
Message: Posted by: Ihop (Jun 12, 2017 03:17PM)
I wish I read the entire thread before.
I kept my pen in my bag and the end cap came off. I don't know how long it's been off but it's now dried up.
Are there any suggestions on how to fix this?
I know I can replace the cartridge inside or perhaps add more ink on the old cartridge.
I've never done either before.
Does anyone have instructions on how to fix my problem?
It would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (Jun 12, 2017 03:22PM)
You remove the cartridge from a new sharpie. Pull out the ink from the double cross use a bent paper clip . You cut the new cartridge down to the same size and stick it.
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Jun 12, 2017 10:17PM)
Ihop, aren't the instructions for doing that on your video? It's on mine.

Jim
Message: Posted by: Ihop (Jun 12, 2017 10:48PM)
[quote]On Jun 12, 2017, J-Mac wrote:
Ihop, aren't the instructions for doing that on your video? It's on mine.

Jim [/quote]
Ah, surprise, surprise.
That was too obvious.
I was so excited when I got it, I only watched the performance and explanation. I didn't watch the maintenance section.
Thanks,
Message: Posted by: Willie mcgregor (Jun 19, 2017 02:54AM)
Saturn Magic are doing Vlogs- basically reviewing products that they use all the time in their working repertoire and telling you how where they use it. Because of this I just bought it.
Message: Posted by: Neznarf (Jun 19, 2017 11:25AM)
I found a pen cap to protect the sticky end of sharpie while it's in your pocket like someone suggested.

They said to be careful that it does not get stuck in the cap.

Well Guess What? The little black X maker with putty on it DID GET STUCK in the cap.

So I had to use a Utilty Knife Razor to cut the cap in half and retrieve the above mentioned item.

So don't do what I did and what the other Café member warned us about.

And Yeas I smacked myself in the head for doing this. SMACK.....
Message: Posted by: SleepyMagic (Jun 19, 2017 11:29AM)
I thought up of a way to do this without using the wax but then the spectator will not be able to look at the top of the sharpie pen ....so not very useful really


Sleepy
Message: Posted by: Kaliix (Jun 19, 2017 12:13PM)
I could have sworn someone mentioned earlier to use double stick tape in place of the black stuff on the gimmicked end. It sounded like a good idea. Does anyone use that method?
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Jun 19, 2017 01:14PM)
Yes, me, and it works a treat. I keep another cap on this side to keep it clean.
Message: Posted by: Ihop (Jun 19, 2017 02:23PM)
[quote]On Jun 19, 2017, Neznarf wrote:
I found a pen cap to protect the sticky end of sharpie while it's in your pocket like someone suggested.

They said to be careful that it does not get stuck in the cap.

Well Guess What? The little black X maker with putty on it DID GET STUCK in the cap.

So I had to use a Utilty Knife Razor to cut the cap in half and retrieve the above mentioned item.

So don't do what I did and what the other Café member warned us about.

And Yeas I smacked myself in the head for doing this. SMACK..... [/quote]
It happened to me too.
I'm looking for an alternative.
Any other advice?
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Jun 19, 2017 05:07PM)
I've tried the double sided tape, but as soon as you use it once maybe twice at a push, the stickiness goes. So reverted back to the putty - but am still looking for that alternative.
Message: Posted by: SleepyMagic (Jun 19, 2017 05:33PM)
I guess, you could use some thermosoftening plastic to crate a kind of small ridge on that part of the pen which can be held between the fingers? Similar to the gecko but a lot smaller.

To cover it, you can first do the Dorty work to the spectator then when bringing the sharpie out, cover the gimmicked part with the ridge with your hand and then take off the cap, place it on top of that "part" so its covered and then draw the X and continue on from there?

I haven't tried this so won't know if it works.

You can find thermosoftening plastic here, I've used it before and its really easy to use:

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORMcard-Handy-Strong-Mouldable-Bio-Plastic-melt-mould-mend-make-/201561173859

Sleepy
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Jun 20, 2017 09:26AM)
[quote]On Jun 19, 2017, PRINCE wrote:
I've tried the double sided tape, but as soon as you use it once maybe twice at a push, the stickiness goes. So reverted back to the putty - but am still looking for that alternative. [/quote]

You need to buy the proper tape and not the useless crap from the local dollar shop. I can assure you that mine lasts for at least 30 uses.
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (Jun 20, 2017 11:25AM)
Re: stamp getting stuck in protective cap
1. Make sure the putty does not extend over the sides and stays in the indentation on the back of the stamp.
2. Nail a hole through the top of the cap then you can always stick a paper clip or something through to dislodge a stuck cap.
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Jun 20, 2017 01:29PM)
[quote]On Jun 20, 2017, pegasus wrote:
[quote]On Jun 19, 2017, PRINCE wrote:
I've tried the double sided tape, but as soon as you use it once maybe twice at a push, the stickiness goes. So reverted back to the putty - but am still looking for that alternative. [/quote]

You need to buy the proper tape and not the useless crap from the local dollar shop. I can assure you that mine lasts for at least 30 uses. [/quote]

Lol, I bought scotch double sided - the one with the backing on and peel off but this lost its stickiness very quick - which one do you use?
Thanks
Message: Posted by: Neznarf (Jun 21, 2017 10:50AM)
Maybe for the next batch of "Double Cross" they can make the black piece that holds the "X" on onside and the putty on other, can be made with some texture so you can grip it more easily. Kind of like grooves on a coin. Or like knurling on some hand tools.

That would be helpful and a LARGE improvement.
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (Jun 21, 2017 10:54AM)
I've gotten used to it but that's a good idea Neznarf
Message: Posted by: Karl M (Jun 30, 2017 02:05AM)
I bought it when I saw it done in tv in a Glastonbury show the other day and it got some good reactions and I have spoke with mark southeorth in Blackpool before and I like him a good guy and helpful I bought sucker punch,so here we go with it blow some minds
Message: Posted by: magicstep (Jul 30, 2017 11:55AM)
Hi guys!

I have a huge problem with the important part. its sticking in my pocket and falling out creating a mass, I think you understand me what part I'm talking about.
i tried a double sided tape instead for putty but the tape not holding anymore because it gets dirt in the pocket.
Seriously I like the effect but the part above is killing me. is anybody came with a solution for this?

Many thanks!
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Jul 30, 2017 02:41PM)
Read this entire thread. Some posted that they put a second cap over that end while it's in their pocket.

Jim
Message: Posted by: bluesmagic (Jul 31, 2017 09:08AM)
[quote]On Jul 30, 2017, J-Mac wrote:
Read this entire thread. Some posted that they put a second cap over that end while it's in their pocket.

Jim [/quote]


Exactly ! Second cap is the way to go ! ;)
Message: Posted by: Neznarf (Jul 31, 2017 11:40AM)
Scrapbooking stores Packaging stores sometimes have DS Tape and all kinds of stuff you don't need but may want.
Message: Posted by: Nathan Alexander (Sep 14, 2017 10:18PM)
I'm close to picking this up. People still keeping it in their sets and getting great reactions? Just give me an excuse :)
Message: Posted by: Sanks (Nov 5, 2017 06:07PM)
How do you top up the ink for the “x” stamp? Can you just use ink for a stamp pad or does it have to be special type of ink?
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Nov 5, 2017 06:43PM)
[quote]On Sep 14, 2017, Nathan Alexander wrote:
I'm close to picking this up. People still keeping it in their sets and getting great reactions? Just give me an excuse :) [/quote]
I definitely use it regularly and in casual situations. Just an overall great kit.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Nov 6, 2017 04:08AM)
[quote]On Nov 5, 2017, Sanks wrote:
How do you top up the ink for the “x” stamp? Can you just use ink for a stamp pad or does it have to be special type of ink? [/quote]
I’ll be surprised if you have to top it up, but if you do then any ink that is permanent and black is fine. In fact just use another sharpies insides and cut it down to the same size.
Message: Posted by: thecromulent (Nov 6, 2017 06:25AM)
[quote]On Nov 6, 2017, pegasus wrote:
In fact just use another sharpies insides and cut it down to the same size. [/quote]

If memory serves, that’s exactly what the video tells you to do.
Message: Posted by: Sanks (Nov 6, 2017 07:10AM)
[quote]On Nov 6, 2017, pegasus wrote:
[quote]On Nov 5, 2017, Sanks wrote:
How do you top up the ink for the “x” stamp? Can you just use ink for a stamp pad or does it have to be special type of ink? [/quote]
I’ll be surprised if you have to top it up, but if you do then any ink that is permanent and black is fine. In fact just use another sharpies insides and cut it down to the same size. [/quote]

Thanks for the quick response. I am having some trouble with the “x”, it doesn’t come out as solid. I’ll watch the video again to see if there are any pointers for when this happens.
Message: Posted by: Sanks (Nov 6, 2017 07:11AM)
[quote]On Nov 6, 2017, thecromulent wrote:
[quote]On Nov 6, 2017, pegasus wrote:
In fact just use another sharpies insides and cut it down to the same size. [/quote]

If memory serves, that’s exactly what the video tells you to do. [/quote]

Thanks.

I’ll watch the video again, probably missed this bit.
Message: Posted by: Nathan Alexander (Nov 6, 2017 08:04AM)
I bought it this weekend (so haven't gotten it yet). But I have to admit I won't be using Dan Sperry's line, "do you believe in the devil?" I don't think I could take myself that seriously. :P
Message: Posted by: Sanks (Nov 6, 2017 08:45AM)
[quote]On Nov 6, 2017, Nathan Alexander wrote:
I bought it this weekend (so haven't gotten it yet). But I have to admit I won't be using Dan Sperry's line, "do you believe in the devil?" I don't think I could take myself that seriously. :P [/quote]

I have seen a lot of pros use this - had it for a few months now, gets the best reaction. Just don’t repeat the effect for the same people lol.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Nov 6, 2017 06:07PM)
And don’t let people film it. Lol.
Message: Posted by: danielvanm (Dec 29, 2017 01:26AM)
Hi all,

Got double cross for awhile now but didn’t used it a lot for two reasons. I have struggles getting the stamp off the marker and when I get it off it leaves to much ink on my own fingers. Anyone has a good solution for this?
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Dec 29, 2017 05:34AM)
[quote]On Dec 29, 2017, danielvanm wrote:
Hi all,

Got double cross for awhile now but didn’t used it a lot for two reasons. I have struggles getting the stamp off the marker and when I get it off it leaves to much ink on my own fingers. Anyone has a good solution for this? [/quote]

Yes Daniel. Have the gimmick in position before you even approach your spec. That way you’re ready in all respects. Once the dirty work is done you can casually put the gimmick back in place very easily, or just dump it in your pocket.
Message: Posted by: danielvanm (Dec 29, 2017 12:00PM)
Thanks Pegasus :) also have residue problem when you get the stamp off?
Message: Posted by: RS1963 (Jan 9, 2018 02:38AM)
I just bought Double Cross. I have not worked with it yet. I will say this. it is a great alternative to Ashes on the palm. Yes I have seen it performed live. That is why I have this opinion.
Message: Posted by: AaronishMagic (Jan 9, 2018 05:15AM)
I love how convenient it is. I am on my 2nd one already. Highly recommended.
Message: Posted by: Trentonmatthew (May 4, 2018 03:50PM)
Has any one found a fail safe method to get the right amount of pressure? Not so hard that they feel it, but not so lite that it doesn’t show up?
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (May 4, 2018 04:24PM)
[quote]On May 4, 2018, Trentonmatthew wrote:
Has any one found a fail safe method to get the right amount of pressure? Not so hard that they feel it, but not so lite that it doesn’t show up? [/quote]

You have done a great job in digging up old posts

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/search_results_posts.php?search_id=9951868

Keep up the good work not long to go to hit the 50
Message: Posted by: Saturn UK (May 4, 2018 05:38PM)
We just listed this today, if you use Double Cross you will see the value in this https://www.saturnmagic.co.uk/saturn-magic-shop/ultimate-sharpie-holder-by-matt-g.html
Message: Posted by: brandon90 (Jun 27, 2018 12:54AM)
My two cents:

I used this as a closer tonight and it blew them away.. it was at a bar so naturally I had a couple to drink and lost the *** stamper, however, I opened with Fraud ( the moment was perfect) followed by Chicago opener & ambitious card (trust me it made sense) and then ended with Double Cross... blew them away. It's so perfect. Lost the *** damper but it was wroth the $30 to replace.
Message: Posted by: setsuna83 (Jul 19, 2018 07:28PM)
Hi the ink for the stamper seems to dry up very fast for mine. does anyone have any idea on how to refill the ink properly? thanks!
Message: Posted by: Alex DLF (Jul 20, 2018 01:22AM)
[quote]On Jul 19, 2018, setsuna83 wrote:
Hi the ink for the stamper seems to dry up very fast for mine. does anyone have any idea on how to refill the ink properly? thanks! [/quote]

Rotate the cartridge, new and fresh ink
Message: Posted by: C-suite magic (Jul 21, 2018 04:08AM)
Store the pen so the ink flows towards the stamper.
Message: Posted by: strakekine (Jan 21, 2019 03:46PM)
Hello guys for my first post,
I am brand new in magic. I always wanted to learn some tricks and I know some easy to lear card tricks, but stumbled across double cross.
I am a little afraid using this, because when I practiced today, I had difficulties getting the stamper back on the sharpie because the putty was sticking at my finger...
What do you do to avoid this sticking? With me it seems to stick everytime when I try to put the gimmick back on the sharpie. What is your technique? Do you use two hands to put it back or like me you try single handed?
Thanks from Luxemburg
Message: Posted by: brandon90 (Jan 21, 2019 04:29PM)
Hey Luxemburg and welcome to the Café !

I utilize my thumb, index, and middle finger to help keep it in place and of course a little misdirection
Message: Posted by: strakekine (Jan 21, 2019 04:40PM)
I still find it really sticking on the finger and leaving a slight mark afterwards. Maybe I use to much of the black stuff.
greetings
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Jan 22, 2019 01:03AM)
[quote]On Jan 21, 2019, strakekine wrote:
I still find it really sticking on the finger and leaving a slight mark afterwards. Maybe I use to much of the black stuff.
greetings [/quote]

I use a small amount of D sided sticky tape. Works a treat. Just put another pen top over that end too, when not in use. By doing that It also reminds you what the sharpie is.
Message: Posted by: strakekine (Jan 22, 2019 02:25AM)
[quote]On Jan 22, 2019, pegasus wrote:p

I use a small amount of D sided sticky tape. Works a treat. Just put another pen top over that end too, when not in use. By doing that It also reminds you what the sharpie is. [/quote]

D-sided tape? Ok. Will try that. I am really afraid that the black stuff will give the trick away! But maybe I am just thinking too much;-)
Message: Posted by: barts185 (Jan 22, 2019 03:51AM)
[quote]On Jan 21, 2019, strakekine wrote:
I still find it really sticking on the finger and leaving a slight mark afterwards. Maybe I use to much of the black stuff.
greetings [/quote]

First, make sure you are using a very small amount of the putty. This is gone over in the instruction video, but once the putty is flattened, it shouldn't even be touching the sides.

Second, when I got mine, for whatever reason, the first bit of putty I took off was leaking ink. I'm not sure if that's actually what was happening, but the result was the same. It would mark my finger a lot - I attached a picture. I thought I was going to have to return it. But, I just threw that small piece of putty away, took another piece, and it has worked fine since then. I have no idea what was wrong with that first piece of putty I ripped off, but I'm glad I tried another piece before returning it.
Message: Posted by: strakekine (Jan 22, 2019 04:03AM)
Hi
Thanks. Yeah. That is the mark I get from the putty. I will use a new bit. And I will use less putty. I took what I thought was a small amount, but when flattened out it still touches the sides. So maybe I am just using to much.
Message: Posted by: strakekine (Jan 22, 2019 04:38AM)
Gabe it a quick try. Less putty—less sticky;-)
But still a little black mark. But don’t know if people will notice
Message: Posted by: barts185 (Jan 23, 2019 03:07AM)
[quote]On Jan 22, 2019, strakekine wrote:
Gabe it a quick try. Less putty—less sticky;-)
But still a little black mark. But don’t know if people will notice [/quote]

Sorry if this is oversimplifying it, but did you clean the area where you put the putty before you started using the new bit? If not, could still be some ink left behind.

Good Luck! I hope the putty or tape works out or you're able to return it - this gets such great reactions!
Message: Posted by: strakekine (Jan 23, 2019 11:54PM)
Thanks... of course I did not clean the area;-))) will try that too
Message: Posted by: globalmagicians (Jan 28, 2019 03:33PM)
Its a really great trick! I preform it all the time! 5 out of 5!!
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Jan 28, 2019 08:10PM)
I only wish the gimmick had a lower profile, more ergonomically friendly shall we say.
Message: Posted by: MagicMax20 (Jan 29, 2019 08:39AM)
[quote]On Jan 28, 2019, pegasus wrote:
I only wish the gimmick had a lower profile, more ergonomically friendly shall we say. [/quote]

What do you mean by that Pegasus? Do you find it too big or is it more about how it fits your finger?
Thank you!
Message: Posted by: magimo (Mar 4, 2019 11:07AM)
I have double cross and would love to use it. But I find it difficult to get the gimmick of the end of the pen without it twisting and get ink on my fingers. Am I alone in this? I would really appreciate any advice how to overcome this.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Mar 4, 2019 11:49AM)
Only advice I can give is to prepare the gimmick into position before you walk toward your spec.
Message: Posted by: leosx1 (Mar 4, 2019 01:00PM)
I glued my gimmick to the bottom side of my middle finger TT which makes it much more safer and usable for me.
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (Mar 4, 2019 10:33PM)
I agree that ink on the fingers can be a pain. I take an alcohol wipe and try to clean around the rim where the gimmick sits and where ink can build up. That helps
Message: Posted by: magicmind (Mar 5, 2019 08:38AM)
[quote]On Mar 4, 2019, leosx1 wrote:
I glued my gimmick to the bottom side of my middle finger TT which makes it much more safer and usable for me. [/quote]
reminds me of a few other gimmicks I have. UV ink stamper from france and another one was an interchangeable symbol stamper on a TT. So, I think your solution might be a good one.
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Mar 5, 2019 09:00AM)
I don't have any of these problems...Then again, I still do this as 'Ashes on Hand'. And I saved $60.00. But don't mind me, what do I know?

Mike.
Message: Posted by: tophatter (Mar 7, 2019 11:39PM)
My Ink is not making a complete X I have to go to the link & see how to fix this problem I hope it's in the explanation If anyone knows can you pm me with the details I would really appreciate it.
Thanks,
Jeffrey
Message: Posted by: Oil&Water (Mar 8, 2019 07:43AM)
I would love to see a Double Cross 2.0, as it’s brilliant but I believe these issues could be totally eradicated
( no pun intended ). Olly
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Mar 8, 2019 08:23AM)
Ah, yes, Double Cross 2.0 - and then, after that, we have Double Cross Redux. An excellent way to take a product, re-brand it, and then make even more money off of new customers, as well as selling the same product to the old customers. Money, money, money - it's all about the money. Take an old idea (ashes on the hand), repackage it, sell it, and then re-market it 3 or 4 times to keep the money coming in.

And people criticize me for saying that magicians are the biggest suckers on the face of the earth. Too funny!

Mike.
Message: Posted by: Oil&Water (Mar 8, 2019 08:49AM)
Mike with respect as I admire your work enormously, however I never liked the original ashes effect as it was messy compared to this a (dry erase marker) and the original was over exposed imo.
Magical wishes, Olly
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Mar 8, 2019 09:05AM)
I doff my cap, Olly - well met! :D

Mike.
Message: Posted by: Magic KL (Mar 8, 2019 11:21AM)
Interesting. They now have a heart shaped stamper.

https://www.saturnmagic.co.uk/saturn-magic-shop/heart-shaped-secret-stamper-only-for-double-cross-from-magic-smith.html
Message: Posted by: Tim Ellis (Mar 9, 2019 11:22PM)
I have been doing Double Cross for some time now and it get GREAT initial reactions.. but (unlike the Ash on Palm effect) people frequently reconstruct the method after thinking about it for some time. They don't know HOW I put a cross on their hand, but they will say "He must have put the x on my hand at the start somehow." Then, in their mind, they have "figured it out" and my reputation as a magician drops just that little bit.

I never had that happen with Ashes, because the ash on my palm was usually dropped on by a cigarette and rubbed in, so they had no idea how I could have done that to them before I started.

I did try the Lipstick on Palm variation, but like Double Cross, people reconstructed it afterwards so I stopped doing it.
Message: Posted by: Ceierry (Mar 10, 2019 05:31AM)
[quote]On Mar 5, 2019, Michael Jay wrote:
I don't have any of these problems...Then again, I still do this as 'Ashes on Hand'. And I saved $60.00. But don't mind me, what do I know?

Mike. [/quote]


What is your favorite version?
Message: Posted by: indomagic (Mar 27, 2019 02:09AM)
I am curious how long the sharpie ink need to be refilled .

Thanks
Message: Posted by: keilunmagic (Apr 5, 2019 03:37AM)
[quote]On Mar 9, 2019, Tim Ellis wrote:
I have been doing Double Cross for some time now and it get GREAT initial reactions.. but (unlike the Ash on Palm effect) people frequently reconstruct the method after thinking about it for some time. They don't know HOW I put a cross on their hand, but they will say "He must have put the x on my hand at the start somehow." Then, in their mind, they have "figured it out" and my reputation as a magician drops just that little bit.

I never had that happen with Ashes, because the ash on my palm was usually dropped on by a cigarette and rubbed in, so they had no idea how I could have done that to them before I started.

I did try the Lipstick on Palm variation, but like Double Cross, people reconstructed it afterwards so I stopped doing it. [/quote]

I do get better reactions with the alternate handling. A friend of mine actually has a tattoo for it - I just use the stamper. Even if they believe that the X was already on my wrist (which is the case), they still don't know how I made theirs disappear. Furthermore, I have made a second gimmick with a regular sharpie (no stamper) and I do a switch then have them play with it. I assure you a lot try again and the ink doesn't come off ;)
Message: Posted by: SleepyMagic (Apr 5, 2019 05:17AM)
[quote]On Apr 5, 2019, keilunmagic wrote:
[quote]On Mar 9, 2019, Tim Ellis wrote:
I have been doing Double Cross for some time now and it get GREAT initial reactions.. but (unlike the Ash on Palm effect) people frequently reconstruct the method after thinking about it for some time. They don't know HOW I put a cross on their hand, but they will say "He must have put the x on my hand at the start somehow." Then, in their mind, they have "figured it out" and my reputation as a magician drops just that little bit.

I never had that happen with Ashes, because the ash on my palm was usually dropped on by a cigarette and rubbed in, so they had no idea how I could have done that to them before I started.

I did try the Lipstick on Palm variation, but like Double Cross, people reconstructed it afterwards so I stopped doing it. [/quote]

I do get better reactions with the alternate handling. A friend of mine actually has a tattoo for it - I just use the stamper. Even if they believe that the X was already on my wrist (which is the case), they still don't know how I made theirs disappear. Furthermore, I have made a second gimmick with a regular sharpie (no stamper) and I do a switch then have them play with it. I assure you a lot try again and the ink doesn't come off ;) [/quote]

Wait so you make the X jump from there hand to your hand?

What's the point?
Message: Posted by: MazingMandy (Apr 5, 2019 08:15AM)
[quote]On Mar 4, 2019, pegasus wrote:
Only advice I can give is to prepare the gimmick into position before you walk toward your spec. [/quote]

Completely unnecessary .
Message: Posted by: tophatter (Apr 6, 2019 12:52AM)
So true that's how I do it all the time !
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Apr 6, 2019 02:07PM)
[quote]On Apr 5, 2019, MazingMandy wrote:
[quote]On Mar 4, 2019, pegasus wrote:
Only advice I can give is to prepare the gimmick into position before you walk toward your spec. [/quote]

Completely unnecessary . [/quote]

Whatever. Works for me.
Message: Posted by: Kaliix (Apr 7, 2019 10:18AM)
You must have found some secret to putting the stamper on in front of the spectators because that has always been a rough spot for me.

[quote]On Apr 5, 2019, MazingMandy wrote:
[quote]On Mar 4, 2019, pegasus wrote:
Only advice I can give is to prepare the gimmick into position before you walk toward your spec. [/quote]

Completely unnecessary . [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (Apr 7, 2019 12:26PM)
1. Depending on your personality you can kind of hide it in plain site. When I’m wearing jeans and I don’t load prior to approaching the spectator (which I sometimes do) I just load as I’m taking the Sharpie out of my pocket and placing it on a table.
2. I have this http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/9795. It’s a little pricey but inside a sports jacket it really makes a difference.
Message: Posted by: MazingMandy (Apr 8, 2019 04:06AM)
[quote]On Apr 7, 2019, Kaliix wrote:
You must have found some secret to putting the stamper on in front of the spectators because that has always been a rough spot for me.

[quote]On Apr 5, 2019, MazingMandy wrote:
[quote]On Mar 4, 2019, pegasus wrote:
Only advice I can give is to prepare the gimmick into position before you walk toward your spec. [/quote]

Completely unnecessary . [/quote] [/quote]

Don't make a moment out of it, just do it. I put the stamper on and off during performance every single time I use it
Message: Posted by: Kaliix (Apr 8, 2019 05:59AM)
It's not about making a moment out of it, it's about trying to get that sucker off and positioned without my hand looking like it lost a fight to a sharpie. There's little grip or room for error. I wish I was better at it.

[quote]On Apr 8, 2019, MazingMandy wrote:
[quote]On Apr 7, 2019, Kaliix wrote:
You must have found some secret to putting the stamper on in front of the spectators because that has always been a rough spot for me.

[quote]On Apr 5, 2019, MazingMandy wrote:
[quote]On Mar 4, 2019, pegasus wrote:
Only advice I can give is to prepare the gimmick into position before you walk toward your spec. [/quote]

Completely unnecessary . [/quote] [/quote]

Don't make a moment out of it, just do it. I put the stamper on and off during performance every single time I use it [/quote]
Message: Posted by: MazingMandy (Apr 9, 2019 05:53AM)
Maybe try adding more of the putty? I stick it between my first and second finger and its trivial to pick the pen up with the putty end already in this position and then lever the stamper out with my thumbnail
Message: Posted by: pilgrim (Jun 5, 2019 12:37AM)
A good idea replacing that ugly feeling cigarette ashes lung-destroying concept... And of course: heavily-tattoed 'underground' magicians rarely will be 'caught' with 'inked hands'... I empty inkpots on my head before executing this trick... No-one ever suspicioned me of being a magician... Only being an inkpot-emptiying retarded something *** with great abilities..
Message: Posted by: Hervé Troccaz (Jul 22, 2019 05:41PM)
Undoubtedly Double Cross is a best seller, which allows to obtain strong reactions.

However, we will make serious reservations about this product, despite its impact qualities. Besides, why does Double Cross make it possible to obtain such lively reactions? Because it takes place in the hand of the spectator. And illusions involving the very palm of a member of the public remove any suspicion of manipulation, while allowing for strong reactions.

The pen is of good quality, the spectators are blown away, the trick is easy enough to do. The disadvantage is that it is almost impossible to go around without getting stung by the gimmick. The X you put yourself does not always disappear. The black putty used to hold the gimmick leaves a residue on your hand. Each viewer asks to see your hands after the turn and this removes the effect when there is residue of black ink on the fingers.

In addition, when you have a very sweaty palm, Double Cross will not even work with the method taught. The classic ash transfer was more natural and no one disputes it! But it is clearly a price too high for this kind of gimmick! The creator could have sold this product at the same price as the Mental Pen, which is also incredible and is worth forty euros. They should have given you a little more of what they provide for the price of the tour.

Clearly Double Cross remains too expensive, because the gimmick you get is pretty clever, but it's cheap and you'll have to buy refills after a while ... BUT ... The effect is amazing, the reactions are like you're Harry Potter and just performed some real magic! It should be sold cheaper.
Message: Posted by: bluesmagic (Aug 13, 2019 06:06PM)
Last night the secret sxxxxer fell on the floor and it split in 2 parts, an outter part and an inner part. I found them both. Anybody knows how to put them back together? I don't see signs of glue.
Message: Posted by: Illucifer (Aug 13, 2019 10:31PM)
It’s a very simple matter to load the gimmick onto your finger right in front of the spectator. I performed this effect in 3-4 shows per day, multiple times per show, for 2 years straight in Macau. Trust me, it’s no problem if you’re able to be natural in front of people.
Message: Posted by: Kyoki_Sanitys_Eclipse (Oct 12, 2019 11:48AM)
Just bought this. I cant wait to get it in the mail.
Message: Posted by: Pinkybreak (Oct 31, 2019 10:01AM)
Hey,

i now had customers who lost the cartridge because it's so loose in the pen.
Is the problem known and is there a solution? I couldn't find anything in the topic.
Message: Posted by: Sean Mann (Oct 31, 2019 10:19AM)
I would have thought that the solution for a dealer would be to contact Magic Smith or their distributor. Having said that I've not heard that this is a problem.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Oct 31, 2019 10:36AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2019, Pinkybreak wrote:
Hey,

i now had customers who lost the cartridge because it's so loose in the pen.
Is the problem known and is there a solution? I couldn't find anything in the topic. [/quote]

Best you look at the rules for avatars. Green triangles are not on the list.
Message: Posted by: magictwists (Nov 12, 2019 02:56AM)
I accidentally left the standard cap off the tip of the Double X Sharpie, so the Sharpie tip has now dried out. Still useable, but definitely not optimal. I've read that to rejuvenate a normal everyday sharpie, you can put the tip into rubbing alcohol for 30 seconds, and this dissolves enough ink to get the ink flowing again. Does anyone know if this would work with the Double X Sharpie, or would it ruin the ink so it's not useable in the way it needs to be? Thanks
Message: Posted by: thecromulent (Nov 12, 2019 07:37AM)
I worked pull the pen apart, if possible, and just put the empty tip in the alcohol, just to be sure there's no way for it to work its way up into there ink reservoir.
Message: Posted by: magic.99 (Nov 14, 2019 04:55PM)
Clearly Double Cross remains too expensive, because the gimmick you get is pretty clever, but it's cheap and you'll have to buy refills after a while ... BUT ... The effect is amazing, the reactions are like you're Harry Potter and just performed some real magic! It should be sold cheaper.

If this trick is so great, gets great reactions, then pay the price! It is crazy how many 'magicians' complain about the price of a new trick. If a client complains that you are expensive, what do you say? "I'm worth it!" If the trick is great - it's worth it!
Message: Posted by: rmendez (Jan 25, 2020 10:08AM)
I'm now seeing this effect on eBay for as low as $24.99. Has it perhaps been knocked off?
Message: Posted by: barts185 (Feb 27, 2020 09:27AM)
Has anyone used the heart stamp?

There are only two reviews of it on Penguin, and they are somewhat far apart.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Feb 27, 2020 09:33AM)
[quote]On Jan 25, 2020, rmendez wrote:
I'm now seeing this effect on eBay for as low as $24.99. Has it perhaps been knocked off? [/quote]

Even that’s too expensive.
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (Feb 27, 2020 11:16AM)
I’ve used the heart stamp. I didn’t love it. Of course it works. But the heart you draw on your own hand had to be bigger than the stamp heart to be recognizable, it takes longer to draw and if your a guy it might feel weird to do it on another guy. The stamp heart is tiny and is not alway immediately recognized as a heart. It seems like a great idea and good for duplicate performances for other people in the group etc. I was very excited to get it when it came out. Somehow it didn’t work great for me or I didn’t come up with a unique presentation. Without a special presentation for the heart the cross seems simpler.
Message: Posted by: CMR (Feb 27, 2020 11:34AM)
Thanks, Xcath1. I didn't realize the issues with the heart stamp. Better to stick with the cross then.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Feb 27, 2020 11:50AM)
I am almost certain that the heart stamps are only available with the fake (vastly cheaper) pens.
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (Feb 27, 2020 05:31PM)
I ordered mine straight from MagicSmith. He has a few different stamps now. Like I said, I couldn't wait to get something other than the X but now only use the X. I think another thing is that the other stamps look so good they could only have been made by a stamp which draws attention to the method which I still can't believe I get away with. But as everyone who does this trick knows, it's hard to beat.

https://www.magicsmith.com/accessories.html
Message: Posted by: Magic Mark (Feb 28, 2020 09:02AM)
Yep, MagicSmith was at Magic Live last year and selling the heart stamp and a few others. However, at the time, I believe they were only available in a bundle of 4 or 5 different stamps rather than individually.

Mark