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Topic: Wayne Dobson - 3SIXTY
Message: Posted by: MagicMike101 (Sep 10, 2014 01:39PM)
Hi guys,

Mike Sullivan here with the news of Waynes new effect 3SIXTY.

Here is a trailer to whet your appetite. http://youtu.be/nXCbMUMlsBw

For more information on the release date and price, visit www.waynedobson.co.uk

Thanks...
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Sep 10, 2014 02:01PM)
Looks nice! Very clean, just hoping there isn't a BA principle involved.
Message: Posted by: MagicMike101 (Sep 10, 2014 02:02PM)
Yes there is... Why?
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Sep 10, 2014 02:43PM)
Can't seem to find any info on it on the webpage?.
Message: Posted by: MagicMike101 (Sep 10, 2014 02:44PM)
It is very very new. I expect we will have more info in the next week or so..
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (Sep 10, 2014 04:59PM)
Looks spectacular. I like this so much better than Clarity Box because of the compact size. Saddly, it looks like it's got some limitations that make it not ideal for strolling.
Message: Posted by: Lawrence P (Sep 11, 2014 01:00AM)
Can't wait for it ...excited.
Message: Posted by: MagicMike101 (Sep 11, 2014 05:41AM)
[quote]On Sep 10, 2014, emyers99 wrote:
Looks spectacular. I like this so much better than Clarity Box because of the compact size. Saddly, it looks like it's got some limitations that make it not ideal for strolling. [/quote]


Hi emyers99. Wayne has designed this box to be used primarily for strolling. His devious mind has devised a handling that even allows you to put the box in the spectators hand! We have worked with this box for over a year and checked and rechecked all the possible scenarios. I love this trick, and I hope you will too.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 11, 2014 05:54AM)
There is no info on his website Magicmike.
Message: Posted by: MagicMike101 (Sep 11, 2014 05:58AM)
[quote]On Sep 11, 2014, pegasus wrote:
There is no info on his website Magicmike. [/quote]


Sorry pegasus, its so new we haven't put anything on as yet. Keep an eye out there should be something in the next week..
Message: Posted by: johndevacmaker (Sep 11, 2014 06:09AM)
Sorry but this can not be compared to the clarity box
Fairly obvious to the working of this so would question the practicality of what you also
require to perform this in a walk around situation
Message: Posted by: MagicMike101 (Sep 11, 2014 06:19AM)
[quote]On Sep 11, 2014, johndevacmaker wrote:
Sorry but this can not be compared to the clarity box
Fairly obvious to the working of this so would question the practicality of what you also
require to perform this in a walk around situation [/quote]

johndevacmaker - Yes you're right, it can't be compered to the Clarity Box. However, it can be performed walkaround and in all close up situations. I am not giving anymore away. But am sure you will like it. As Wayne says- "It's a worker"
Message: Posted by: Martin.Lester (Sep 11, 2014 06:34AM)
[quote]On Sep 11, 2014, MagicMike101 wrote:
[quote]On Sep 11, 2014, pegasus wrote:
There is no info on his website Magicmike. [/quote]


Sorry pegasus, its so new we haven't put anything on as yet. Keep an eye out there should be something in the next week.. [/quote]

I have a Few Questions

What is the Price of this Item ?

and will Wayne be at the Magic Circle Dealers day this year ?

Thanks
Message: Posted by: MagicMike101 (Sep 11, 2014 06:50AM)
Hi Martin,

Price is not set yet, but it will be soon. Watch this space. And yes Wayne will be at MC dealers day, also Wayne will be lecturing at IBM Bournemouth this year too.
Message: Posted by: corindaman (Sep 11, 2014 12:19PM)
Is he going to Portsmouth Jumbo day as well?
Message: Posted by: MagicMike101 (Sep 11, 2014 12:35PM)
Yes he will be at Jumbo Day too...
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (Sep 12, 2014 01:53AM)
Not sure what this brings to the table , you already have clarity box , john
Kennedy's box , mark s box all that don't use the BA from what I can see hardly practical to walk around with a jet black close up pad just to perform a one off effect !

Sorry this looks like 2 steps back instead of going forward !
Message: Posted by: MagicMike101 (Sep 12, 2014 05:54AM)
[quote]On Sep 12, 2014, JackMagic wrote:
Not sure what this brings to the table , you already have clarity box , john
Kennedy's box , mark s box all that don't use the BA from what I can see hardly practical to walk around with a jet black close up pad just to perform a one off effect !

Sorry this looks like 2 steps back instead of going forward ! [/quote]

Hi JackMagic, I am sorry I do not agree with your comment of two steps back. And I will not give away the secret, but I will say you don't need a close up mat to make this effect work. All the stuff comes in one pack and there is not need for anything on the magicians part to add.

Also the price will be announced in the next 24 hours...
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 12, 2014 06:34AM)
So can the effect be performed on any type of surface?
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (Sep 12, 2014 06:50AM)
[quote]On Sep 12, 2014, MagicMike101 wrote:
[quote]On Sep 12, 2014, JackMagic wrote:
Not sure what this brings to the table , you already have clarity box , john
Kennedy's box , mark s box all that don't use the BA from what I can see hardly practical to walk around with a jet black close up pad just to perform a one off effect !

Sorry this looks like 2 steps back instead of going forward ! [/quote]

Hi JackMagic, I am sorry I do not agree with your comment of two steps back. And I will not give away the secret, but I will say you don't need a close up mat to make this effect work. All the stuff comes in one pack and there is not need for anything on the magicians part to add.

Also the price will be announced in the next 24 hours... [/quote]

I do not want to know the Secret , the point I want to know is what advantage is this offering that could not already be done with one of the existing Box's available ?
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Sep 12, 2014 10:25PM)
Strange why so many people still create this kind of effect when there are already thousands of them in the market . I already got Clarity Box , like it a lot . My main aim to get Clarity Box is to do it for parlor situation . However I think 3SIXTY is a little too small to be shown on parlor shows .

As for walk around ? Huh ... I am just afraid that I might drop the thing . It is made of glass or plastic ?
Message: Posted by: nattefrost (Sep 13, 2014 09:41AM)
Looks like you do not need a close up pad but the surface has to be black. This looks great though! I have Kennedy's box, (original version), clarity box, also one with a matchbox ( I forget name but same principle), I think it's called mercury matchbox, I like how small this is and I'm assuming you could alter the color of this pertaining to what the color of your surface is? I know dark is best but just wondering- maybe gimmick has a few colors?
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Sep 13, 2014 10:37AM)
I love the clarity box, but it would be great if you could get one a little smaller and works with the same priiciple.
Message: Posted by: MagicMike101 (Sep 14, 2014 03:39PM)
Hi Magician560, to address your points 1. It is great for parlour and stage. I have it on a pedestal
with a pin spot lighting it and it looks great. For parlour you only need to elevate it so your audience can see it clearly. 2nd, It's made of plastic. Which is of high quality.

nattefrost At the moment the gimmick comes as is, however there is a pack coming out (which is very cheap), and would allow you to customise to your spec. IE Lottery Ticket, Bank note, Billet and of course the colour you require..

Just to inform you all, 3SIXTY will be £39.99 or $59.99, (Postage TBA) this is available soon for pre-order (Est. release date Oct 14) from www.waynedobson.co.uk
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 14, 2014 03:56PM)
Why preorder?
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (Sep 14, 2014 06:18PM)
[quote]On Sep 14, 2014, MagicMike101 wrote:
Hi Magician560, to address your points 1. It is great for parlour and stage. I have it on a pedestal
with a pin spot lighting it and it looks great. For parlour you only need to elevate it so your audience can see it clearly. 2nd, It's made of plastic. Which is of high quality.

nattefrost At the moment the gimmick comes as is, however there is a pack coming out (which is very cheap), and would allow you to customise to your spec. IE Lottery Ticket, Bank note, Billet and of course the colour you require..

Just to inform you all, 3SIXTY will be £39.99 or $59.99, (Postage TBA) this is available soon for pre-order (Est. release date Oct 14) from www.waynedobson.co.uk [/quote]

As you have not answered my question I assume this box does not offer anything that can't be done with any other box on the market

Except one thing !

It's not yet available and might be out sometime in oct

I wish dealers would wake up to the fact people are sick of pre orders

Why not just wait until it's ready before starting up the hype !
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Sep 14, 2014 06:33PM)
Not sure I understand the negative comments. One of the biggest complaints of the Clarity Box was the size and angles. This seems to solve both, plus it's examinable, which most similar boxes aren't. Looks good to me, but I'm curious about the quality and just how well the BA principle works in this instance.
Message: Posted by: John C (Sep 14, 2014 06:47PM)
Does look pretty good.
Message: Posted by: Robert M (Sep 14, 2014 07:18PM)
Looks great to me.

How can it be examined if there's BA involved?

Robert
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Sep 14, 2014 07:20PM)
Because that is left on the table.
Message: Posted by: MagicMike101 (Sep 14, 2014 07:42PM)
[quote]On Sep 14, 2014, Jack Straw wrote:
Because that is left on the table. [/quote]


Sorry Jack Straw, this effect can be done in the spectators hands..... There will be two performances in the official trailer, one one a table and the other in the spectators hand... Watch this space!
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Sep 14, 2014 08:22PM)
OK!

I'll have to watch it again, although that might not help me now.
Message: Posted by: MagicMike101 (Sep 14, 2014 08:33PM)
What you have to remember guys is Wayne Dobson is devious with a capital D.
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (Sep 15, 2014 06:04AM)
[quote]On Sep 13, 2014, Fire Starter wrote:
I love the clarity box, but it would be great if you could get one a little smaller and works with the same priiciple. [/quote]

Have you checked out this
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=532262&forum=218&start=0

A friend of mine uses this all the time
Message: Posted by: Magical Dimensions (Sep 15, 2014 06:52AM)
Why would a person carry a plastic box around with them? Heck, if I was going to use a mat as in the video, I would just have the card appear under the mat....

If walk around, I would just show an empty card box and place it in someone's shirt pocket. And then have the card appear in the box. Makes more logic than having an out of place plastic trick store box.... Doesn't it....?



Best
Ray
Message: Posted by: MagicMike101 (Sep 15, 2014 07:17AM)
[quote]On Sep 15, 2014, Magical Dimensions wrote:
Why would a person carry a plastic box around with them? Heck, if I was going to use a mat as in the video, I would just have the card appear under the mat....

If walk around, I would just show an empty card box and place it in someone's shirt pocket. And then have the card appear in the box. Makes more logic than having an out of place plastic trick store box.... Doesn't it....?



Best
Ray [/quote]

Hi Ray, just to point out, the mat was there just for show, It has no integral part in the trick.
Message: Posted by: MagicMike101 (Sep 15, 2014 08:09AM)
Now available for pre order from Wayne's site.. www.waynedobson.co.uk
Message: Posted by: johndevacmaker (Sep 15, 2014 08:37AM)
I will be interested to see this live at the Dealers Day
I have a lot of Waynes products and most are excellent so I will reserve judgement until then

I own A Kennedy Box and a Clarity Box both excellent and as Jack says the one I use the most is The Box by Mark Southworth
so will be interesting to see what extra Wane has come up with
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 15, 2014 09:50AM)
I'll ask again. Why preorder? What is in it for anyone to do so? Don't tell me, ltd supply.
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Sep 15, 2014 10:42AM)
Because pre-order is the cool thing to do.

And we all know the other reasons.

When will they ever learn that most of us are fed up with this kind of thing?

Never!
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 15, 2014 01:27PM)
It's not so bad if they offer a discount, or similar, but just a standard preorder makes no sense to me. Why do it? Why do magicians want your money before the product has been released?
Message: Posted by: gjmagic (Sep 15, 2014 01:53PM)
I would like to add something to this, I've seen this right up close and it really is a great illusion. For me, a pre order usually means you will be the first to get your hands on one, sometimes with discount, sometimes not, obviously if you don't want to pre order then you don#t have to, but I have because I want one now :-)(I'm still a big hobbyist at heart and this is a fun part of magic!)

This is small enough to slip into your pocket/handbag/purse yet plays really big. As for the "what's so different about this from other boxes out there?" IMO this is a step forward, the box is clear and they can see the card at all times (or you can bring the box out of the bag at the end of a routine) and it can be examined at the end, although this isn't necessary as they can see it's empty! It is self contained so you don't need a close up pad, and the reset is done in seconds.

I put my order in when Mike and Wayne showed me this a few weeks ago.....will it replace al the other brilliant boxes out there, I don't know as this would be a very personal choice, much like card to wallet or peek wallets lol!

Regards,

Gary
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 15, 2014 02:21PM)
Oh yes, just seen on the website. 'Limited supplies' lol. I value your opinion Gary and this does look very convincing. But I'll pay on the release date. Money is better in my account than someone else's. If, however, there is a nice discount to be had, then that's a different story.
Message: Posted by: gjmagic (Sep 15, 2014 02:24PM)
[quote]On Sep 15, 2014, pegasus wrote:
Oh yes, just seen on the website. 'Limited supplies' lol. I value your opinion Gary and this does look very convincing. But I'll pay on the release date. Money is better in my account than someone else's. If, however, there is a nice discount to be had, then that's a different story. [/quote]

I know what you mean mate :-) As soon as I get my hands on this and road test it I will write up a full review!
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 15, 2014 02:32PM)
Great. I look forward to it.
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (Sep 15, 2014 03:26PM)
Funny how everything that is on pre Order is a " Limited Suppy "

When ever I see this comment it makes me wonder why if an item is that great why has the seller only ordered

A "Limited Suppy" makes you wonder if the person has that much confidence in the product ?

Anyway time will tell if this does offer anything over and above what's already available
Message: Posted by: MagicMike101 (Sep 15, 2014 05:36PM)
Pegasus, JackStraw and anyone else who don't understand the concept of pre-order...

To answer your question, the reason why it is advertised as limited supply is of course we have to pay up front for the manufacture of the product. As this is Wayne's first self published trick, he wants it to look right. The artwork, manufacture and everything else needed to supply the customer, he also wanted to keep the costs down so the customer gets the best deal. This was paramount. The end result does cost us money too. Contrary to popular belief, we do not have a vat of cash to use when needed therefore we can only buy in what we can afford hence "Limited Supply" Wayne relies heavily on his intellectual property as he can not perform in the standard sense. Also the manufacturing of the box takes a long time. I am sure we will (if popular) do another run, but I really feel although I have said it, I don't need to justify our actions. And as my friend Gary Jones said- you do not have to pre order, but don't come crying to me when you can't get one!
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Sep 15, 2014 09:13PM)
We certainly do understand the concept.

That's not the issue.

We just don't like using us to get your product to the market, and then finding out that the product does not fill our needs and our money was wasted.

I'm not aware of any other industry that depends on pre-ordering to get a product out.

I think I can say that I've been disappointed in everything that I've ever pre-ordered.

That's why I'll never do it again.

Maybe Wayne and you should have taken out a second mortgage on your homes to get it done. That's what I did when I decided to open up a business.

I don't think Steve Jobs depended on pre-ordering when he released his first (or last) computer. But he certainly did have to bust his chops to get the money to do what he needed to do. That's business, you know.

What will happen if you only get 20 pre-orders, and that's not enough money to get the product to the market? Will you cancel the whole thing, or continue?

I'm not saying that I don't like this. I do. I'm sure that Wayne's device IS devious. But my Clarity Box is good enough, and I will need to wait and see before I buy this one. I guarantee you that I have much less money to waste than you do. I'm still paying off my first and second mortgages, you know.

And if stock runs out and you don't make more, I will not shed one tear. But why you wouldn't make more I don't know.
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Sep 16, 2014 01:16AM)
Totally with Jack Straw on this , Wayne can't afford to do an initial run on this with his own money ? Do me a favour that's laughable to say the least .
Message: Posted by: CarlMcCoy (Sep 16, 2014 03:52AM)
As devils advocate...many things across the board have pre-orders...not just magic supplies. The new iPhones for example.

Just saying.

As much as many seem to hate pre-orders, I gotta sit on the side of the fence that kinda' hates all the moaning about them. If one doesn't want to buy a product until its released, then don't buy.

I fail to see how a pre-order affects anyone that does not wish to pre-order.
Message: Posted by: gjmagic (Sep 16, 2014 04:49AM)
[quote]On Sep 16, 2014, CarlMcCoy wrote:
As devils advocate...many things across the board have pre-orders...not just magic supplies. The new iPhones for example.

Just saying.

As much as many seem to hate pre-orders, I gotta sit on the side of the fence that kinda' hates all the moaning about them. If one doesn't want to buy a product until its released, then don't buy.

I fail to see how a pre-order affects anyone that does not wish to pre-order. [/quote]

Couldn't have put it better! We are grown ups (?) so if you keep getting 'burnt' every time you buy a product on pre order surely you would wait until the product is released and the reviews are in...but to 'keep on' getting burnt implies that you're human and can't wait to get the product, this is all part of the fun of magic!

From what I can see from where I am Mike and Wayne are NOT making/forcing anyone to pre order, as an adult you have to make your own choice :-)

Oh, and on the subject about limited runs etc, release a product to see what happens, it really is a jungle out there! I watched Richard Branson last night on TV and he mentioned that he had a few flops, although the products were sound they still failed, a good business person has to be daring and cautious both at the same time, and also, limited runs is a great business idea to get people to 'want' a product even more, it's nothing to do with how much money you have, but you all knew that didn't you :-)

Gary.
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Sep 16, 2014 06:00AM)
[quote]On Sep 16, 2014, Tarik Flash wrote:
Totally with Jack Straw on this , Wayne can't afford to do an initial run on this with his own money ? Do me a favour that's laughable to say the least . [/quote]

Thanks, Tarik!
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Sep 16, 2014 07:28AM)
I am not putting down this product- as I stated before, I like it.

But your job, MagicMike, is to sell a product. Ours is to figure out if we really need it. Others have said that there's nothing new here. They can have that opinion.

The only problem I have is that you are using the Magic Café as a KickStarter.

If you want to do that, go to KickStarter and do it. The Green Screen is NOT KickStarter!
Message: Posted by: GrantMaidmentMagician (Sep 16, 2014 07:50AM)
Hi guys,
I am new to the Café and just wanted to remind you all what the slogan
at the top of the screen says:

"Magicians Helping Magicians"

Something to think about isn't it? Stop complaining for the sake of it...

Bring something positive to the subject.
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Sep 16, 2014 08:00AM)
[quote]On Sep 16, 2014, gjmagic wrote:
[quote]On Sep 16, 2014, CarlMcCoy wrote:
As devils advocate...many things across the board have pre-orders...not just magic supplies. The new iPhones for example.

Just saying.

As much as many seem to hate pre-orders, I gotta sit on the side of the fence that kinda' hates all the moaning about them. If one doesn't want to buy a product until its released, then don't buy.

I fail to see how a pre-order affects anyone that does not wish to pre-order. [/quote]

Couldn't have put it better! We are grown ups (?) so if you keep getting 'burnt' every time you buy a product on pre order surely you would wait until the product is released and the reviews are in...but to 'keep on' getting burnt implies that you're human and can't wait to get the product, this is all part of the fun of magic!

From what I can see from where I am Mike and Wayne are NOT making/forcing anyone to pre order, as an adult you have to make your own choice :-)

Oh, and on the subject about limited runs etc, release a product to see what happens, it really is a jungle out there! I watched Richard Branson last night on TV and he mentioned that he had a few flops, although the products were sound they still failed, a good business person has to be daring and cautious both at the same time, and also, limited runs is a great business idea to get people to 'want' a product even more, it's nothing to do with how much money you have, but you all knew that didn't you :-)

Gary. [/quote]

And those points are fair also. I guess that I was wrong about pre-ordering for i-Phones, but at least you have a very good idea of what you are buying (I think, since I don't own one).

But if cars were sold the same way that magic tricks were sold, you can bet your bippy that all kinds of government agencies would be all over the car companies for that.
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Sep 16, 2014 08:02AM)
[quote]On Sep 16, 2014, GrantMaidmentMagician wrote:
Hi guys,
I am new to the Café and just wanted to remind you all what the slogan
at the top of the screen says:

"Magicians Helping Magicians"

Something to think about isn't it? Stop complaining for the sake of it...

Bring something positive to the subject. [/quote]

Just wait until you get suckered into a bad purchase due to misleading claims made here, Grant.

Because it will happen!

That's part of what this is about.

Magicians helping other magicians from being taken for a ride. See the thread for Nefesch's "Hug" if you need more information.

Oh, and it's hard to bring something positive to the table for a product that has not been released yet!

Other than saying things like "I like this" or "I want this", of course.

I like this, OK?
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 16, 2014 09:46AM)
I know exactly what I'm buying when I pre-order a new iphone. The same cannot be said about magic items. The reason that (some) vendors push pre-orders is to sell as many as possible before the negative reviews come out, and hence further orders.
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Sep 16, 2014 09:50AM)
Exactly, Pegasus.

And, Grant, since nothing but the hype has been released, nothing but the hype can be talked about here.

And many of us do not like the hype!
Message: Posted by: CarlMcCoy (Sep 16, 2014 11:02AM)
[quote]On Sep 16, 2014, Jack Straw wrote:
...And many of us do not like the hype! [/quote]

But unfortunately you're in Latest & Greatest Jack...that's all there is.

Y'all have a good evening, I'm off to get my son from nursery. Hes' about the only one that still thinks my double lift is effective.

He's two.

I have no hope.
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Sep 16, 2014 11:14AM)
Use some Science Friction, Carl.

DL problem solved. And that's no hype- that's reality!

And that's what we are talking about here- all there is is hype. Give us something more to talk about!
Message: Posted by: GrantMaidmentMagician (Sep 16, 2014 11:21AM)
Oh well, I tried to bring a bit of positivity!
Good luck with your release Wayne.
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Sep 16, 2014 11:59AM)
Once again, understand that it does look nice to me, and I hope it is a good one for us magicians and for Wayne.

Especially for us magicians.
Message: Posted by: johndevacmaker (Sep 16, 2014 01:14PM)
Advice
Do not part with your cash for a pre order (Think how many times you have been disappointed /waited much longer than first told it would be)

Seriously if a product is that good when it comes out they will make enough to sell after all the rave reviews
Yes you may have to wait but it's a much lesser risk than jumping on the Hype Wagon and more often than not being dissapointed
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Sep 16, 2014 01:23PM)
I did learn my lesson, John.

I learned my lesson more than once, as a matter of fact.

I will never pre-order again.

At least we keep bringing this thread up to the top for those of you who do want to pre-order!
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 16, 2014 02:20PM)
Grant Maidment. Did you pre-order Hug? No I didn't think so.
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Sep 16, 2014 04:42PM)
I don't think he pre-ordered Steve Shufton's "Inexplicable" based on the hype here on The Café either.

I did, and boy was I inexplicably disappointed!
Message: Posted by: johndevacmaker (Sep 17, 2014 01:34AM)
Yes I got caught with that one as well Jack
Message: Posted by: CarlMcCoy (Sep 17, 2014 03:00AM)
[quote]On Sep 16, 2014, pegasus wrote:
Grant Maidment. Did you pre-order Hug? No I didn't think so. [/quote]

To be fair to pre-ordering Pegasus...anyone that bought HUG could be considered - by some - to be an idiot. Buying a product with NO idea what it is, what it does or even see it in action would seem to be complete folly. This is hardly the case here. Doesn't mean one should buy it of course...but then that's the whole point: pre-ordering means nothing unless you purchase.
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Sep 17, 2014 06:23AM)
Carl, I have to admit that I pre-ordered "Hug".

But it was only after some eMails between Nef and myself, where he assured me that what he had was really amazing and got big reactions whenever he did it and could be performed by anyone on the fly with no preparation and that I would not regret my purchase and, once he released it, he would "probably" not make anymore copies. So if I wanted it, I'd better order it now!

So, between the hype here AND my conversations with Nef, I fell for it hook, line and sinker.

My wife and I were looking to do some street fair type work, and I was looking for something that would draw people in to our area.

We never did the street fairs.

Yes, I freely admit that I was an idiot.

I legally changed my middle name to Idiot after that.

I am an idiot no more!

But the name change was permanent and they won't change it back to my birth middle name. Some obscure US law allows only one name change per lifetime, at least according to the indifferent US Government employee that I spoke to. Maybe I should look into that again- I'm starting to think that I was lied to there also!

Take care, Jack I. Straw

(I usually just use the letter "I" instead of spelling it out on all legal documents!)
Message: Posted by: RNK (Sep 17, 2014 06:28AM)
[quote]On Sep 16, 2014, Jack Straw wrote:
I don't think he pre-ordered Steve Shufton's "Inexplicable" based on the hype here on The Café either.

I did, and boy was I inexplicably disappointed! [/quote]

Different strokes for different folks. I per-ordered Inexplicable and LOVE it.

RNK
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Sep 17, 2014 06:38AM)
RNK, that one I can see how certain people like.

I prefer to use other methods to get the same thing done.

I was sucked into that one by the "Spectator can stop anywhere he wants" part of the hype.

Well, yeah, the spectator will "remember" that they could have stopped anywhere they wanted to.

In the version that I use the spectator truly CAN stop anywhere they want to, so they'll remember the exact same thing.
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (Sep 17, 2014 07:22AM)
Regardless if the method is different to the Lay Person the effect is the same doing this as any other box

The Fact Wayne decided to go it alone (instead of going with Alakazam or another Dealer) is nothing to do with us

However to expect us to fund the development is out of line

I have been burnt once with Yigal Mesika at the IBM/SAM convention he said new item was due out in 4 weeks , it ended up same as this he was taking orders to fund the development in the end it took 2 Years (as the actual Product was nothing like the Prototype)

Pre Order - Never Again
Message: Posted by: JoelDickinson (Sep 17, 2014 07:28AM)
Reading through some posts the principle has been revealed. Is this really acceptable?
Message: Posted by: Robmonster (Sep 17, 2014 07:35AM)
It was revealed in the first reply! It's actually useful to understand more abut how it works as you can make a more informed purchase. I think it looks really good. Fooled me first time through the demo vid, and will surely fool spectators too.
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Sep 17, 2014 07:39AM)
Has the method been revealed, Joel?

It's not out yet, so how do you know?

Methods have been speculated on (once by myself, but I was quickly told I was wrong by someone who actually knows the method!), and that is totally acceptable by the rules of The Magic Café.

And JackMagic, I certainly agree 100% with ALL of your statements directly above Joel's.

And Rob, the partial method was revealed by someone involved with the production of this, but he also stated that it could be done in the spectator's hand (or something like that). He said Wayne was DEVIOUS, so there's more to it than that.
Message: Posted by: mike donoghue (Sep 17, 2014 07:42AM)
Like most people I have worked out how this works, but that is to be expected as I am 54 yrs old & have been in magic for ages.Who cares as long as it's good and useable.I too have bought lots of these types of boxes. I do magic full time as a job but I am still like a kid in a sweet shop & love to see anything new.

I remember years ago when I was a semi pro magician(full time now for years), watching Wayne on television or setting recorder to go on night shift. I had a sereal experience when I worked at Magicbox(part time) years later while talking to him on the phone.Couldn't believe I was talking to one of my magic heroes.Allways friendly at conventions and a good person.

One thing you can be sure of if it has his name on it, IT WILL BE FANTASTIC & VERY WORKABLE. Wayne never releases anything less than that.

No one is forced to pre order but I have and look forward to getting this in October. If it's late, it's late.

Have loads of respect for Mr Dobson a brilliant performer who has given loads of people(magicians & lay public) loads of pleasure through his comedic talent.

Mike Donoghue
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Sep 17, 2014 07:49AM)
Some creators here have no problem with filling you in HONESTLY on the workings of an effect.

Look at Uday Jadugar's last several products that he has talked about here. Some info was revealed directly by him.

I ended up buying Dave Forrest's "Cubism" after he came on here and let everybody have access to the full instructional video. If he had not done that, I would not have bought it. But he did and I did.

There were no unpleasant surprises and I was very pleased with my purchase.
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Sep 17, 2014 08:17AM)
A while back someone came on here to let us know that he was developing a genuine 2-sided coin that would almost always land heads up or tails up.

We were directed to KickStarter to help him get this done.

Lo and behold, KS removed the project because money could not be given out as a reward (what a joke!).

The project died, as far as I know.

He could have come on here and started to take pre-orders of the project. He did not.

Maybe he should have. That is something that I MIGHT consider doing a pre-order on, simply because I know EXACTLY what I'd be getting when it's done. How long I would have to wait is another story, of course.

And let me tell you all that I know without a doubt how that works. I actually tried to make one myself (only after the project died), but I could not get it to quite look right and work correctly myself.

KickStarter is where it's at for creator-made projects like this. It is basically a way to pre-order, but there are no false pretenses.
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (Sep 17, 2014 12:55PM)
[quote]On Sep 17, 2014, Jack Straw wrote:
Some creators here have no problem with filling you in HONESTLY on the workings of an effect.

Look at Uday Jadugar's last several products that he has talked about here. Some info was revealed directly by him.

I ended up buying Dave Forrest's "Cubism" after he came on here and let everybody have access to the full instructional video. If he had not done that, I would not have bought it. But he did and I did.

There were no unpleasant surprises and I was very pleased with my purchase. [/quote]

I have to agree only need to look at Mark Maison who shows everyone who see's him demo am item how's it done , I asked him once if this effects his sales he said he was convinced this is why he sells a lot more than most other dealers

With this item in questions I think I know what's going on , but if the item is so devious compaired to other items on the market surely can only help sales not hinder!

Still find it a bit strange that the first item WD decides to go alone with is a variant of something already out!

Instead a new effect anyway time will tell!
Message: Posted by: CarlMcCoy (Sep 17, 2014 01:25PM)
[quote]On Sep 17, 2014, Jack Straw wrote:
Carl, I have to admit that I pre-ordered "Hug".

But it was only after some eMails between Nef and myself, where he assured me that what he had was really amazing and got big reactions whenever he did it and could be performed by anyone on the fly with no preparation and that I would not regret my purchase and, once he released it, he would "probably" not make anymore copies. So if I wanted it, I'd better order it now!

So, between the hype here AND my conversations with Nef, I fell for it hook, line and sinker.

My wife and I were looking to do some street fair type work, and I was looking for something that would draw people in to our area.

We never did the street fairs.

Yes, I freely admit that I was an idiot.

I legally changed my middle name to Idiot after that.

I am an idiot no more!

But the name change was permanent and they won't change it back to my birth middle name. Some obscure US law allows only one name change per lifetime, at least according to the indifferent US Government employee that I spoke to. Maybe I should look into that again- I'm starting to think that I was lied to there also!

Take care, Jack I. Straw

(I usually just use the letter "I" instead of spelling it out on all legal documents!) [/quote]


That literally brightened my day mate...thank you. (the reply, not the bit about you thinking you're an idiot...ha)

In the case you have described, I would consider that being completely conned by a (person whose name rhymes with Hunt). Not the same thing in my book and I feel for you, honestly. I got duped by someone whose name rhymes with Killer a long time ago and he even had the cheek to argue with me in an open forum about it...after I'd sent him money to pay for his child support (great magician...lousy person)

Sometimes our desire to help out our fellow man can lead us to make very stupid decisions.

That's why I now only spit and shout at other people, or threaten them with violence.

Unless they're bigger than me...in which I case I run like duck.
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Sep 17, 2014 01:55PM)
Glad to give you a lift, Carl. I do try to be a little humorous whenever possible.

But everything I said about the purchase of "Hug" went down the way that I said.

Not only that but it caused BIG trouble between me and my wife for quite some time.

She wanted to buy something for my daughter (what it was escapes my mind), but I told her I had to get something that was going to end up making us a lot of money at street fairs.

When the video download arrived (before the actual DVD got there), we both sat down to watch it. In the middle of it, she started yelling at me something to the effect of " You wasted $50 on this s*** when our daughter needed a (whatever it was)!

I slept on the couch for about a month.

Meanwhile, Nefesch fed his entire village for a year with the money he made off of us suckers.
Message: Posted by: CarlMcCoy (Sep 18, 2014 04:46AM)
I feel ya.
I watched that hype machine for page after page and simply could not get my head around it. I'm not the type to get overly worked up about hype as I'm an advertising designer so have spent the last 25years creating ad and teaser campaigns designed specifically to get people pumped for something or other. However, one normally needs to have the goods waiting in the wings to back up that hype.

The HUG fiasco was just plain crazy. I still find it hard to believe that they thought they'd get away with it.

Mental.
Message: Posted by: Robmonster (Sep 18, 2014 04:52AM)
At the risk of derailing this thread, what happened with Hug?
Message: Posted by: Fatgumbo (Sep 18, 2014 05:12AM)
What happened was a bunch of people realised that they did not want to put in some effort into performing the effects on the DVD, and immediately thought it was trash. I bought it for about $25 off Penguin.. and I could do the move after doing daily stretches for a few weeks.

It wouldn't have been worth the $50, but hardly the 'scam of the century' everyone is making it out to be.
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Sep 18, 2014 05:55AM)
Really?

That's the way you see it, Fatgumbo?

That's like me saying that I don't understand why your country built a 3,000 mile long fence to keep a cute little animal away from your sheep.

Robmonster, you really should check out the "Hug" thread.

It should be required reading here.

It's a long thread, but just read the first 3 or 4 pages and then jump ahead 10 pages. You'll understand then.
Message: Posted by: RNK (Sep 18, 2014 06:55AM)
[quote]On Sep 18, 2014, Fatgumbo wrote:
What happened was a bunch of people realised that they did not want to put in some effort into performing the effects on the DVD, and immediately thought it was trash. I bought it for about $25 off Penguin.. and I could do the move after doing daily stretches for a few weeks.

It wouldn't have been worth the $50, but hardly the 'scam of the century' everyone is making it out to be. [/quote]

I agree with you Fatgumbo. If I could do the move I definitely would be doing this. Yes- $50.00 may have been a little high for this especially for not knowing what it actually entailed since some couldn't do it because of there body. I see why there wasn't a demo as a magician would just try to figure it out and not buy it. So- for Nefesch it was a "Catch 22" scenario- demo- lose business, not a demo- get backlash. But hardly a "scam" as some are calling it.

RNK
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Sep 18, 2014 08:56AM)
RNK, I know you from The Café, and I usually respect your opinions, but not in this case.

"Hug" should have been a $5 Cool Box deal on Penguin, not a $50 (with shipping) DVD.

"3sixty" is going to retail for about $60US. Something has to be manufactured here, and that price seems reasonable.

Nothing had to be manufactured for "Hug".

$50 for the equivalent of the schoolyard prank of pulling your thumb off your hand is just like paying someone to kick you in the crotch.
Message: Posted by: RNK (Sep 18, 2014 09:48AM)
[quote]On Sep 18, 2014, Jack Straw wrote:
RNK, I know you from The Café, and I usually respect your opinions, but not in this case.

"Hug" should have been a $5 Cool Box deal on Penguin, not a $50 (with shipping) DVD.

"3sixty" is going to retail for about $60US. Something has to be manufactured here, and that price seems reasonable.

Nothing had to be manufactured for "Hug".

$50 for the equivalent of the schoolyard prank of pulling your thumb off your hand is just like paying someone to kick you in the crotch. [/quote]

I agreed- $50.00 was probably to high for this- $25.00 would have been good. If you can do it right I think it looks great. The principle was never released before. Yes- no manufacturing needed but the idea was new compared to the same old tricks that are reinvented. I don't think $5.00 coolbox only because it was a brand new idea never seen before.

RNK
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (Sep 18, 2014 05:21PM)
Must agree with Jack $50 for Hug is a joke

He got away with it because of the pre Oder hype

This should be a Lession to all don't be taken in by the hype
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Sep 18, 2014 06:21PM)
Two Jacks beat one RNK and one Fatgumbo.

Really, nobody beats anyone else here.

But, if anyone wants to revisit the "Hug" thread, the vast majority of people did not like it and felt like they were cheated and ripped off.

The lesson learned is: Don't pre-order!

However, there must be some who will take the first chances on any effect. For instance, I ordered "OctoPalm" on the first day it came out. Why did I do that?

Well, I liked the demo video. Or the teaser. Or the trailer. I can never figure out which is which.

"Hug" had no such thing. I just relied on the creators word, and the kudos being flashed by a lot of big magic names that regular users of this forum would recognize. What a fool I was! Creators love to come on here and talk up their products before it comes out, but they run and hide when the mess comes down.

And here's the important part: "OctoPalm" only cost me $12.41 with shipping.

So if I don't like it, I didn't waste that much money.
Message: Posted by: johndevacmaker (Sep 19, 2014 02:14AM)
I hope there is room for a John in with the two Jacks I will change my name if need be lol

We all have our own ideas of course and are entitled to our opinions
It is of course a great platform for dealers to hype their products and at the same time let us know
what's new and eagerly part with our money
But the Café is also for magicians to help each other and that includes exposing real bad buys and warn
of over hyped dross.
And those of us that have been suckered in to buying a pre ordered new miracle that isn't are just advising
of our experiences and Jack Straw is spot on with his comments on Octopalm
I like my good friend Jack Magic was severely burned with a Sam/IBM pre order that he has previously talked about
And severely upset by Will Tsai's CD prediction DIY pack but that was a previous post long ago
At the end of the day it is only advice from our own experiences that you can take or choose to ignore
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Sep 19, 2014 07:07AM)
Well, said, John.
Message: Posted by: tricktac (Sep 19, 2014 08:48AM)
Shame you had to hijack a thread for what looks like a good product to make your point.

I suppose you've bumped it up a bit, but why not take your problems to the "right or wrong" forum where they belong.

Anyway, I will definitely pick this up, as I think it' looks superb, and I have literally every card to impossible location going. My favourites are Destination box, mystery box and Tommy Wonders Ring box. But this looks great!
Message: Posted by: wally (Sep 19, 2014 09:02AM)
MMMMM Kennedy box or waynes.
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (Sep 20, 2014 08:56AM)
[quote]On Sep 14, 2014, Jack Straw wrote:
Because that is left on the table. [/quote]

Exactly I still can't see what this is bringing extra to the table

Well except you know what that is left behind !

If you want a smaller box that can be examined then

The Box by Mark Southworth (DVD + Gimmicks) would fit the bill

The advantage is it's already out and you can check the reviews from people that have already purchased
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Sep 20, 2014 09:41AM)
Let me say this I love Wayne Dobson and most of his effects however I have seen this performed first hand and the only thing it brings new to the table is literally a black velvet bag or you will need your own black close up mat to bring to the table . Highly overrated and a step backwards IMO
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (Sep 20, 2014 10:40AM)
[quote]On Sep 20, 2014, Tarik Flash wrote:
Let me say this I love Wayne Dobson and most of his effects however I have seen this performed first hand and the only thing it brings new to the table is literally a black velvet bag or you will need your own black close up mat to bring to the table . Highly overrated and a step backwards IMO [/quote]

I also have several of Wayne's effect but with this one

This is what I expected as I asked the question to Wayne's spokesman he ignore the question, I still wonder with all the effects wayne has bought out why he decided to go it alone with this effect that as you say is a step backwards
Message: Posted by: wally (Sep 24, 2014 09:17AM)
Which is the best for adult close up Box by Mark Southworth or kennedy box.which is the easiest to use. help decide, thanks, pm me.
Message: Posted by: Markymark (Sep 24, 2014 01:13PM)
Mystery box! One of the first..and best.I had a tin box version by Mark Southworth which fell to bits after 20 uses
Message: Posted by: bobgill (Sep 29, 2014 09:38AM)
Here's an idea: wait til it comes out, go along to a convention (thereby supporting magic in general) and see it deemed, then make an informed opinion?
Four pages of speculation before the thing's even out, with the dealer on the back foot seems unfair and unnecessary to me.
I really find the Forum useful and interesting - but have to sift through the 90% guessing game: thinly veiled attempts to hound the originator into disclosing his methodology and discover 'how it works', equipping the reader to either rip it off, or loftily dismiss it as "it's only IT" or "not another BA principle".
It's a pre-order at a discount, you're grown-ups, none's making you order the thing.
Message: Posted by: tricktac (Sep 29, 2014 09:54AM)
[quote]On Sep 29, 2014, bobgill wrote:
Here's an idea: wait til it comes out, go along to a convention (thereby supporting magic in general) and see it deemed, then make an informed opinion?
Four pages of speculation before the thing's even out, with the dealer on the back foot seems unfair and unnecessary to me.
I really find the Forum useful and interesting - but have to sift through the 90% guessing game: thinly veiled attempts to hound the originator into disclosing his methodology and discover 'how it works', equipping the reader to either rip it off, or loftily dismiss it as "it's only IT" or "not another BA principle".
It's a pre-order at a discount, you're grown-ups, none's making you order the thing. [/quote]

Fantastic post. Sadly most of the people who read these boards wish to be spoon fed, enjoy trolling or only practice Magic in their own bedrooms.

I think this looks great (and I do know how it's done) but I can see how this would play to an audience. (Yes an audience of real people).
Message: Posted by: tricktac (Sep 29, 2014 10:05AM)
And yes I'm aware of the irony that my post could be seen as trolling. It's not, I meant every word.
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Sep 29, 2014 12:16PM)
[quote]On Sep 29, 2014, bobgill wrote:
Here's an idea: wait til it comes out, go along to a convention (thereby supporting magic in general) and see it deemed, then make an informed opinion?
Four pages of speculation before the thing's even out, with the dealer on the back foot seems unfair and unnecessary to me.
I really find the Forum useful and interesting - but have to sift through the 90% guessing game: thinly veiled attempts to hound the originator into disclosing his methodology and discover 'how it works', equipping the reader to either rip it off, or loftily dismiss it as "it's only IT" or "not another BA principle".
It's a pre-order at a discount, you're grown-ups, none's making you order the thing. [/quote]



I'm afraid it's not all speculation as I have seen this demoed first hand by Wayne's team and it brings nothing at all to the table other than a velvet black bag or use your own black close up mat . The box or The Kennedy Box are much better than this IMO so there is no guessing game on my part :) Also for the record I love Wayne Dobson and all he stands for in magic but think this is a step backward .
Message: Posted by: tricktac (Sep 29, 2014 01:00PM)
My favourite is Destination box by Jon Allen, then The Light by Dave Forrest then I think this is my new next favourite.
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Sep 29, 2014 01:39PM)
I agree with you there tricktac that it's not number one as far as this plot goes .
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (Oct 20, 2014 08:35AM)
[quote]On Sep 15, 2014, Jack Straw wrote:
Because pre-order is the cool thing to do.

And we all know the other reasons.

When will they ever learn that most of us are fed up with this kind of thing?

Never! [/quote]

Looks like Jack Straw has been proved right

Original post 14 Sep to Pre order for 14th Oct

Now it's the 20th Oct and it to Pre Order for END OF NOVEMBER

Sorry for anyone that did pre order back in September as it looks like it will be a long wait

(That's assuming it does not get pushed back to end of December !)
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Oct 20, 2014 08:39AM)
Worth a read. Might be the reason for delay.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2798979/bobby-davro-centre-divorce-row-tv-magician-s-wife-flashed-breasts-online-video-chat.html
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Oct 20, 2014 09:10AM)
I scooped that story in 'Did you hear the latest?' yesterday.

That's why I'm the Scoopmaster. First to know, first to share.
Message: Posted by: johndevacmaker (Oct 20, 2014 09:52AM)
Well will be interested to see this at the Dealers day this week end
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (Oct 20, 2014 09:53AM)
[quote]On Oct 20, 2014, pegasus wrote:
Worth a read. Might be the reason for delay.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2798979/bobby-davro-centre-divorce-row-tv-magician-s-wife-flashed-breasts-online-video-chat.html [/quote]

I personally think Jack Straw is more on the Mark (not a good idea to mix business with pleasure)

[quote]On Sep 15, 2014, Jack Straw wrote:
We certainly do understand the concept.

That's not the issue.

We just don't like using us to get your product to the market, and then finding out that the product does not fill our needs and our money was wasted.

I'm not aware of any other industry that depends on pre-ordering to get a product out.

I think I can say that I've been disappointed in everything that I've ever pre-ordered.

That's why I'll never do it again.

Maybe Wayne and you should have taken out a second mortgage on your homes to get it done. That's what I did when I decided to open up a business.

I don't think Steve Jobs depended on pre-ordering when he released his first (or last) computer. But he certainly did have to bust his chops to get the money to do what he needed to do. That's business, you know.

What will happen if you only get 20 pre-orders, and that's not enough money to get the product to the market? Will you cancel the whole thing, or continue?

[/quote]

Clearly the Answer was to Put Back the Date from 14th Oct to END of NOVEMBER !
Message: Posted by: Cole Gross (Oct 20, 2014 10:29PM)
Hello everyone,

Hocus Pocus posted the Wayne Dobson 3Sixety for pre sale today at this link:
http://www.hocus-pocus.com/magicshop/?p=28231
It will be shipped in early November and if you preorder it from Hocus Pocus you will receive FREE WORLDWIDE SHIPPING.

Let me know if you have any questions about this great new product.

Cole
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (Oct 21, 2014 01:44AM)
[quote]On Oct 20, 2014, Cole Gross wrote:
Hello everyone,

Hocus Pocus posted the Wayne Dobson 3Sixety for pre sale today at this link:
http://www.hocus-pocus.com/magicshop/?p=28231
It will be shipped in early November and if you preorder it from Hocus Pocus you will receive FREE WORLDWIDE SHIPPING.

Let me know if you have any questions about this great new product.

Cole [/quote]

Hear we go again first of all this was due out on 14th Oct

Wayne Dobson's own site now states " End of November " that's assuming he gets enough orders to fund this!

How you can ship Early November BEFORE wayne has released the item is beyond me

I think this is the 2nd time you have stated pre release dates that simply can't be delivered , a bit more honestly would not go amiss
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Oct 21, 2014 09:59AM)
It's not very good anyway so I wouldn't worry too much about this one .
Message: Posted by: Robvs (Nov 1, 2014 05:12PM)
So...if you perform this in the hand is it fair to say that there is a lot more fumbling about in order to "clean up" rather than rely on the BA principle on top of the velvet bag? I'm kinda thinking that if I'm going to do it in hand, my Altoids box still prevails. The table presentation seems to be the flagship effect here.

To briefly weigh in on the pre-order process, as it was compared to Apple's preorder process. Apple does not charge your credit card until the item ships. In fact, it is against every major credit card's terms of service (on the retailer's end) to charge the card for a product prior to its shipping. I understand you'll have a bunch to say such as "well then explain the kickstarter legalities..." I can't. But those terms are certainly there.
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Nov 1, 2014 05:21PM)
[quote]On Nov 1, 2014, Robvs wrote:

So...if you perform this in the hand is it fair to say that there is a lot more fumbling about in order to "clean up" rather than [b]rely on the BA principle on top of the velvet bag?[/b] [/quote]

:magicrabbit:

You made the black cat jump out of the bag. :bg:

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: JanForster (Nov 1, 2014 05:25PM)
... and the rabbit leaves its hat ...
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Nov 1, 2014 05:27PM)
:bg:

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Nov 1, 2014 06:13PM)
Oh jeez. Yes, we all know the MO.
Message: Posted by: Robvs (Nov 1, 2014 10:43PM)
So...anyone want to answer the question? The method and discussion on its revelation were already discussed within the first three pages of this thread (including confirmation from its creator).
Message: Posted by: Cole Gross (Nov 6, 2014 11:34AM)
[quote]On Oct 20, 2014, Cole Gross wrote:
Hello everyone,

Hocus Pocus posted the Wayne Dobson 3Sixety for pre sale today at this link:
http://www.hocus-pocus.com/magicshop/?p=28231
It will be shipped in early November and if you preorder it from Hocus Pocus you will receive FREE WORLDWIDE SHIPPING.

Let me know if you have any questions about this great new product.

Cole [/quote]

Hello everyone,

As I stated above, Hocus Pocus is scheduled to receive this and have it available for shipment on or before November 14th. Please let me know if you have any questions and thank you to all of you who have already preordered.

Cole
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 6, 2014 11:44AM)
Dealers, can you beat a shipment date of 14th November? Come on, don't be shy, now's the time to be loud and proud.
Message: Posted by: Cole Gross (Nov 6, 2014 12:09PM)
[quote]On Nov 6, 2014, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
Dealers, can you beat a shipment date of 14th November? Come on, don't be shy, now's the time to be loud and proud. [/quote]

I will try my best :)
Message: Posted by: barts185 (Nov 13, 2014 03:47PM)
[quote]On Nov 6, 2014, Cole Gross wrote:
[quote]On Nov 6, 2014, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
Dealers, can you beat a shipment date of 14th November? Come on, don't be shy, now's the time to be loud and proud. [/quote]

I will try my best :) [/quote]

Since it's now the afternoon of November 13th (I think it's safe to say that the early November you mentioned in another post was already missed), were you able to beat November 14th? Is November 14th still happening?


You updated to the 14th, another site is saying the 17th, your site is now saying the 18th, Wayne's site is saying end of November.

Also, in case this is coming across as something against you or your site Cole, that's not the case. I have nothing against you, like your site and use it all the time.

I DO have something against pre-orders, especially when dates are set that can't possibly be met and when pre-orders are being used to crowd fund items.


Will you (or anyone) answer whether or not these have even been put into production yet?
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 13, 2014 04:00PM)
Barts185, great spot!

Let's see what the dealers do to compensate those who are losing interest on their pre-order down payments.
Message: Posted by: barts185 (Nov 13, 2014 04:43PM)
[quote]On Nov 13, 2014, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
Barts185, great spot!

Let's see what the dealers do to compensate those who are losing interest on their pre-order down payments. [/quote]

That's funny - getting compensation for pre-orders that take longer than advertised. What a kidder.

It's actually a great idea, but does that actually ever happen? I think I heard about one case (don't even remember exactly what), but the item was delayed for over a year and the creator just threw in some other things they had created.
Message: Posted by: Cole Gross (Nov 13, 2014 04:54PM)
The information we get unfortunately is only as good as what our suppliers tell us. We now have a tracking number showing that it will be delivered to us on November 18th, so this is the final update. There are many reasons that dates change throughout the "preorder" period. We try to keep everyone as up to date as we can, but now that we have a tracking number the date is solidified. If anyone has any questions please feel free to call Hocus Pocus toll free.

Thank you,

Cole
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (Nov 14, 2014 05:08AM)
[quote]On Nov 13, 2014, Cole Gross wrote:
The information we get unfortunately is only as good as what our suppliers tell us. We now have a tracking number showing that it will be delivered to us on November 18th, so this is the final update. There are many reasons that dates change throughout the "preorder" period. We try to keep everyone as up to date as we can, but now that we have a tracking number the date is solidified. If anyone has any questions please feel free to call Hocus Pocus toll free.

Thank you,

Cole [/quote]

You also said
[quote]On Oct 21, 2014, JackMagic wrote:
[quote]On Oct 20, 2014, Cole Gross wrote:
Hello everyone,

Hocus Pocus posted the Wayne Dobson 3Sixety for pre sale today at this link:
http://www.hocus-pocus.com/magicshop/?p=28231
It will be shipped in early November and if you preorder it from Hocus Pocus you will receive FREE WORLDWIDE SHIPPING.

Let me know if you have any questions about this great new product.

Cole [/quote]

My Reply Was :

Hear we go again first of all this was due out on 14th Oct

Wayne Dobson's own site now states " End of November " that's assuming he gets enough orders to fund this!

How you can ship Early November BEFORE wayne has released the item is beyond me

I think this is the 2nd time you have stated pre release dates that simply can't be delivered , a bit more honestly would not go amiss [/quote]

I would hardly Call 18th Nov EARLY NOVEMEBER

Funny That Wayne Dobsons Own Web Site Still States Pre-Order (est. release end of Nov 2014)

http://www.waynedobson.co.uk/

With Everyone and his mother having a New Box out still say its best to wait and see what all the Hype is before purchase !
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 14, 2014 08:10AM)
Too many dealers nowadays are all about getting the sale.

Good old fashioned service has been relegated in favour of grabbing the greenbacks.
Message: Posted by: Cole Gross (Nov 17, 2014 03:45PM)
Good News, these came in to Hocus Pocus 1 day ahead of schedule!
These are now in stock and we are packing all the preorders now!

3 Sixty is a great product, it works very well and looks great. Watch the video and feel free to give me a call toll free if you have any questions at 800-407-4040.

http://www.hocus-pocus.com/magicshop/?p=28231

Cole
Message: Posted by: Saturn UK (Nov 17, 2014 05:07PM)
Our stock is due in the UK on Wednesday, you get a bonus free dvd while stock lasts with every 3Sixty order

Check it out here http://www.saturnmagic.co.uk/new-magic/3sixty-by-wayne-dobson.html
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 18, 2014 05:21AM)
[quote]On Nov 17, 2014, Cole Gross wrote:
Good News, these came in to Hocus Pocus 1 day ahead of schedule!
These are now in stock and we are packing all the preorders now!

3 Sixty is a great product, it works very well and looks great. Watch the video and feel free to give me a call toll free if you have any questions at 800-407-4040.

http://www.hocus-pocus.com/magicshop/?p=28231

Cole [/quote]
On November 6th you said...

"Hocus Pocus is scheduled to receive this and have it available for shipment on or before November 14th."

Then on November 17th you said...

"Good News, these came in to Hocus Pocus 1 day ahead of schedule!"

Gotta love dealer spin! ;)
Message: Posted by: Sashac (Nov 18, 2014 05:32AM)
I saw one for sale in Second Hand magic :/ Not a good start.
Message: Posted by: Paul S Wingham (Nov 18, 2014 09:32AM)
I wouldnt say this is a step backwards per se' but to have a clear box that at the end is examinable requires a trade off and that trade off is the mat / bag. Examinability ismt an issue for me but if you want to be anle to hand out a clear box after the reveal; you now can. in my opinion this is another option available to people.
Message: Posted by: janu7 (Nov 19, 2014 07:22PM)
I ordered 3sixty and David Penn's Mistery Solved at the same time. With 3sixty, I am scared, that you will need a black close up mat. Watch the video and think about it. David Penn's Box you will have to put away pretty quickly after you tipped out the content, so I'm sure the holy grail hasn't been found.....

Regards

j
Message: Posted by: rasmus (Nov 20, 2014 05:53PM)
Here is my review for 3sixty:

-Quality of the Prop: Top Notch
-Handling of the Gimmick: easy
-Practicality for walkaround: 100%
-Price: Very good
-Examinable: 100%
-Need for Black Underground: No
-Video Quality: very good
-Explanation: very good
-suitable for Walkaround: 100%
-suitable for Stage: 80%

Final Conclusion: A wonderful Gimmick that, at the End, is 100% Examinable. A huge step forward IMHO. Fooled my Girlfriend (normally quite impossible) and she had no clue.

The MCF is covered very well and Tommy Wonder's MCF Tip that I knew before, makes the MCF move as easy as possible. The only difficult part is just to control the Spectator card to the Top of the Deck, that's it.

No Card Force is needed.

IMHO the Best card to Box Effect to date and very handy for walkaround.
:spinningcoin:
Message: Posted by: rasmus (Nov 20, 2014 05:58PM)
[quote]On Nov 20, 2014, rasmus wrote:
Here is my review for 3sixty:

-Quality of the Prop: Top Notch
-Handling of the Gimmick: easy
-Practicality for walkaround: 100%
-Price: Very good
-Examinable: 100%
-Need for Black Underground: No
-Video Quality: very good
-Explanation: very good
-suitable for Walkaround: 100%
-suitable for Stage: 80%

Final Conclusion: A wonderful Gimmick that, at the End, is 100% Examinable. A huge step forward IMHO. Fooled my Girlfriend (normally quite impossible) and she had no clue.

The MCF is covered very well and Tommy Wonder's MCF Tip that I knew before, makes the MCF move as easy as possible. The only difficult part is just to control the Spectator card to the Top of the Deck, that's it.

No Card Force is needed.

IMHO the Best card to Box Effect to date besides Mark Soutworth's Box

:spinningcoin: [/quote]
Message: Posted by: The Greek (Nov 21, 2014 04:35AM)
We give "3Sixty" the once over on this weeks show. We also have a live performance of this. I cannot recommend this product highly enough.

Great work Wayne and Michael for bringing out a fantastic product.

http://www.magictao.co.uk/TaoTV/Weekly-Magazine-EP-09
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 21, 2014 04:56AM)
Thanks Costas

My mother told me never to trust a man with a beard but against her advice I totally trust you.

So I have ordered this today :)
Message: Posted by: Martin.Lester (Nov 21, 2014 05:33AM)
[quote]On Nov 19, 2014, janu7 wrote:
I ordered 3sixty and David Penn's Mistery Solved at the same time. With 3sixty, I am scared, that you will need a black close up mat. Watch the video and think about it. David Penn's Box you will have to put away pretty quickly after you tipped out the content, so I'm sure the holy grail hasn't been found.....

Regards

j [/quote]

Wow how many clear box's do you need

I guess this is why dealers do a great trade in pre orders !

Next time might be worth waiting a few weeks for some proper reviews and save yourself a bit of cash !
Message: Posted by: Saturn UK (Nov 21, 2014 08:34AM)
We have this in stock also and you get a free close-up dvd as well.

This is very good and the handling is very easy.

I Like the idea of just putting the box down rather than putting it right away and if they want to look at it they can all they like with minimal clean up required.

We will also be stocking David's version because I'm sure that will also have it's own merits.

Checkout 3Sixty here with a free dvd http://www.saturnmagic.co.uk/new-magic/3sixty-by-wayne-dobson.html
Message: Posted by: The Greek (Nov 21, 2014 09:14AM)
If anyone wants Wayne Dobsons Triplex trick RRP £25.00, we are giving this away free with 3Sixty.

http://www.magictao.co.uk/TaoTV/Weekly-Magazine-EP-09
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 21, 2014 10:05AM)
Brilliant, dealer wars! :comply:
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Nov 21, 2014 11:01AM)
This box can only be used with a fold playing card? not sure if this has been asked?.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 21, 2014 12:49PM)
Predictions as well. Have a look at the Magictao magic review. They give you the lowdown.
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Nov 21, 2014 01:00PM)
[quote]On Nov 21, 2014, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
Predictions as well. Have a look at the Magictao magic review. They give you the lowdown. [/quote]
Cheers Jamie ,i must of skipped it,will take a look.
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Nov 21, 2014 01:12PM)
Another quick question, does the card in the box, look more dimentional then it does,because it looks flat? in most vidios that I have seen,where as the clarity box card look's better dimentional wise.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 21, 2014 01:16PM)
[quote]On Nov 21, 2014, Fire Starter wrote:
[quote]On Nov 21, 2014, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
Predictions as well. Have a look at the Magictao magic review. They give you the lowdown. [/quote]
Cheers Jamie ,i must of skipped it,will take a look. [/quote]
No probs. At 9.12 Chris mentions adapting the gimmick to show a note or prediction.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 21, 2014 01:21PM)
[quote]On Nov 21, 2014, Saturn UK wrote:
We have this in stock also and you get a free close-up dvd as well.

This is very good and the handling is very easy.

I Like the idea of just putting the box down rather than putting it right away and if they want to look at it they can all they like with minimal clean up required.

We will also be stocking David's version because I'm sure that will also have it's own merits.

Checkout 3Sixty here with a free dvd http://www.saturnmagic.co.uk/new-magic/3sixty-by-wayne-dobson.html [/quote]
Incentivising purchase with a Magic Makers freebie will actually put people off ordering. :phhhhhht:
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 21, 2014 01:27PM)
[quote]On Nov 21, 2014, The Greek wrote:
If anyone wants Wayne Dobsons Triplex trick RRP £25.00, we are giving this away free with 3Sixty.

http://www.magictao.co.uk/TaoTV/Weekly-Magazine-EP-09 [/quote]
That's a much better freebie than Saturn Magic is offering. Thanks Costas, very kind. :thumbsup:
Message: Posted by: The expert (Nov 21, 2014 01:31PM)
[quote]On Nov 20, 2014, rasmus wrote:
-Need for Black Underground: No [/quote]

post a video of you doing it without any black background.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 21, 2014 01:34PM)
[quote]On Nov 21, 2014, The expert wrote:
[quote]On Nov 20, 2014, rasmus wrote:
-Need for Black Underground: No [/quote]

post a video of you doing it without any black background. [/quote]
post a video of you saying something useful :lol:
Message: Posted by: genius (Nov 21, 2014 01:35PM)
Because this uses black art principle, it is not necessary to have black UNDERGROUND, but it will be necessary, I believe, to have a black SOMETHING.

Mindblowingly,
Charles

[quote]On Nov 21, 2014, The expert wrote:
[quote]On Nov 20, 2014, rasmus wrote:
-Need for Black Underground: No [/quote]

post a video of you doing it without any black background. [/quote]
Message: Posted by: The expert (Nov 21, 2014 01:47PM)
[quote]On Nov 21, 2014, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
[quote]On Nov 21, 2014, The expert wrote:
[quote]On Nov 20, 2014, rasmus wrote:
-Need for Black Underground: No [/quote]

post a video of you doing it without any black background. [/quote]
post a video of you saying something useful :lol: [/quote]

did you actually lol then?

i am old, my wife died and I am trying to make new magical friend, I think I have help to offer people.

you just seem sarcastic and needy.

this is black art, I bought it at international. saying you do not been black is, well, a lie.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 21, 2014 01:58PM)
[quote]On Nov 21, 2014, The expert wrote:
[quote]On Nov 21, 2014, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
[quote]On Nov 21, 2014, The expert wrote:
[quote]On Nov 20, 2014, rasmus wrote:
-Need for Black Underground: No [/quote]

post a video of you doing it without any black background. [/quote]
post a video of you saying something useful :lol: [/quote]

did you actually lol then?

i am old, my wife died and I am trying to make new magical friend, I think I have help to offer people.

you just seem sarcastic and needy.

this is black art, I bought it at international. saying you do not been black is, well, a lie. [/quote]
Your Paul Gordon comment on the Sizzle thread gave you away my friend. Sussed! ;)
Message: Posted by: Saturn UK (Nov 21, 2014 02:05PM)
The instructions do show how you can do this without black which may be the way I actually decide to do this but it's early days yet.
Message: Posted by: mike donoghue (Nov 21, 2014 02:27PM)
This arived yesterday.

I knew the principal on which it worked(B.A), but discovered the workings were slightly different to what I thought.Would have prefered it to be unexaminable (i know that is going to sound strange to people who aint got it, in fact crazy). Why you might think ? Can't explain without exposure but I would like to be able to pick up the box & at the same time pocket it without leaving anything dirty(self contained like in mystery box) However, maybe it's wrong for me to say this without giving it a fair try in the real world. Not going into detail but if I talked to someone face to face or on a phone who actually owened this I would explain my reasonong & they would know where I am coming from.

Have done it twice but not in a working situation.

The 1st time it fooled until the point where I picked up the box to turn it mouth up, which I believe you have to because the" something" doesn't always fall flush.

So the 2nd. time when I did it on someone else, I left the box face down & it completely fooled them.

.Pleased I tested this before going out into real working conditions(which are always slightly darker lighting conditions).

Will definately give this a go in paid shows over the next couple of weeks and post my honest findings on here.

Have done these type of effects(still do) for years for the paying public so obviously pracice & rehearsal is not the issue here).

Confient though that I am going to sing Waynes praises about this in the next couple of weeks.

Mike Donoghue ( Mega Wayne Dobson Fan)
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 21, 2014 02:39PM)
Great to get the opinion of a working magician who performs in real working situations and does paid shows for the paying public.
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Nov 22, 2014 08:41AM)
Ok I have one more important question that may determine me to make a purchase ,is it possible to beable to let the spectator examine the clear empty box after it has been placed upside down on the black mat after their chosen signed card is tipped into the hand,in other word's can I pick it back up and show that it is empty and I have left the dirty work invisable on the mat,i scoop it up and it all goe;s back in my pocket or bag,anyone? please as it does sound from Mikes post ,it is not possible?,all the best Shane
Message: Posted by: The Greek (Nov 22, 2014 09:34AM)
Fire Starter if I interpret your question correctly, the answer is yes.

Have you seen the live performance on this weeks show?

We also have a special offer as well.

On me if you have any queries.

http://www.magictao.co.uk/TaoTV/Weekly-Magazine-EP-09
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 22, 2014 09:43AM)
Gotta love Costas and his customer service.

His deals are better than Saturn Magic too. :thumbsup:
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Nov 22, 2014 09:53AM)
[quote]On Nov 22, 2014, The Greek wrote:
Fire Starter if I interpret your question correctly, the answer is yes.

Have you seen the live performance on this weeks show?

We also have a special offer as well.

On me if you have any queries.

http://www.magictao.co.uk/TaoTV/Weekly-Magazine-EP-09 [/quote]

Thankyou very much my friend,yes I did watch it ,but there is a cut when the box is shown after and I juat wondered,again this sounds great.
Message: Posted by: wally (Nov 23, 2014 05:53AM)
I am new to adult close up work, but I am putting together some adult close up routines, is there one better than- The Box by Mark Southworth
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Nov 23, 2014 11:31AM)
Well, yes.

There is [url=http://www.emagictricks.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=5504]this[/url].

I mean, you might have to look at the original handling, either in print, on DVD or download, but it's very hard to beat.

When done properly, it creates a fantastic illusion; the signed, folded card is actually [i]seen[/i] to fall out of the box.

No, it is not examinable. No, there are no magnets, mirrors, flaps or black art required.

Don't get me wrong, all these products could be used to create some good magic, but why reinvent the wheel?
Message: Posted by: boinko (Nov 23, 2014 01:43PM)
Bought this and like it. But the box needs to stay down after the reveal. Lift it up -- and (I've tried this three times now) and it's glaringly obvious what's happening.

That's not a knock against the trick -- just against trying to overshow. The method is what I expected -- and it works great. Overshowing -- overproving -- and you give it all away.

My gripe against this -- and I have this with many tricks -- is the assumption that specs are not perceptive. They're super-perceptive. Most specs -- in my case, at least -- are smarter than me. So if you want to overshow, overprove, look for an idiot with bad vision and low IQ. (Although you can go 90% -- just not 100% -- of the way with this trick and fool most everyone -- smart specs, included.)

EDIT: And this *is* a knock against the trick, although I'm reluctant to say this. The method is what a spec would guess the method to be. There's little 'magic' here -- even if you perform it well. The spec will say, "Well, you do X and then Y happens." You deny it -- "It's magic!" -- but most specs are spot on. Maybe this makes me the idiot. "No, that's not what I do." But then you put away the box in the bag and think: "Wow. That's it." This is one of those tricks where the magician wants the reality to be magical. In reality, the reality is pretty real: what you'd expect to happen does indeed happen -- just not so that the spec sees it. That's good and bad. It's a magician's trick, this one.

This is why those review shows -- Wizard especially -- need a smart spec to give an alternate POV. Most recent gimmick magic hinges on the assumption that specs are nowhere near as smart as they actually are. AN example where the spec is flummoxed -- and can't begin to discuss the method -- is (for one example) 'Sealed'. The trick is James Bond ingenious. Specs understand that it might not be magic -- but they would never guess the method. Dr. Daley's last trick is another one. It ain't magic (sadly) but I have no idea what you did -- and I love it. This one -- 3Sixty -- doesn't work that way.
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Nov 23, 2014 02:12PM)
[quote]On Nov 23, 2014, boinko wrote:
Bought this and like it. But the box needs to stay down after the reveal. Lift it up -- and (I've tried this three times now) and it's glaringly obvious what's happening.

That's not a knock against the trick -- just against trying to overshow. The method is what I expected -- and it works great. Overshowing -- overproving -- and you give it all away.

My gripe against this -- and I have this with many tricks -- is the assumption that specs are not perceptive. They're super-perceptive. Most specs -- in my case, at least -- are smarter than me. So if you want to overshow, overprove, look for an idiot with bad vision and low IQ. (Although you can go 90% -- just not 100% -- of the way with this trick and fool most everyone -- smart specs, included.)

EDIT: And this *is* a knock against the trick, although I'm reluctant to say this. The method is what a spec would guess the method to be. There's little 'magic' here -- even if you perform it well. The spec will say, "Well, you do X and then Y happens." You deny it -- "It's magic!" -- but most specs are spot on. Maybe this makes me the idiot. "No, that's not what I do." But then you put away the box in the bag and think: "Wow. That's it." This is one of those tricks where the magician wants the reality to be magical. In reality, the reality is pretty real: what you'd expect to happen does indeed happen -- just not so that the spec sees it. That's good and bad. It's a magician's trick, this one.

This is why those review shows -- Wizard especially -- need a smart spec to give an alternate POV. Most recent gimmick magic hinges on the assumption that specs are nowhere near as smart as they actually are. AN example where the spec is flummoxed -- and can't begin to discuss the method -- is (for one example) 'Sealed'. The trick is James Bond ingenious. Specs understand that it might not be magic -- but they would never guess the method. Dr. Daley's last trick is another one. It ain't magic (sadly) but I have no idea what you did -- and I love it. This one -- 3Sixty -- doesn't work that way. [/quote]

Good reveiw and knowing how or what the priciple is with this,i have been messing with 3 see through boxs's and a folded up card,i showed the wife it test,took the first box out and placed it upturned on a black silk,then the same with the second and then opened up the third tipped it out and placed the that box on the silk in the same manner,the third box looked empty just like the other two,job done there.BUT, that's where my little expeiment end's as I could not show my box for examination,just quickly put them away,now I am working on another idea for showing the box straight away and just folding up the silk into my pocket.Another thing is with my box the card looks flat just as the clarity box one doe's.so do I get this one? Petty's one? or Mark Southworth's New utility Device?oh the confusion,lol.
Message: Posted by: tricktac (Nov 23, 2014 04:54PM)
If you do ANY card to box, and I mean literally any at all, and the emphasis is on the box and not the folded card, then magic isn't for you.

Harsh assessment, but true.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Nov 23, 2014 05:35PM)
I'd agree with that assessment, with one small caveat; in TW's ACR, the box is introduced at the beginning as a lure, so it has its own significance. But at the end, as you point out, the focus is on the folded card.
Message: Posted by: Mark_Chandaue (Nov 24, 2014 03:15AM)
[quote]On Nov 22, 2014, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
Gotta love Costas and his customer service.

His deals are better than Saturn Magic too. :thumbsup: [/quote]
My experience of Magic Tao was 6 weeks of no product, and no answer to emails or phone calls. I had to dispute the transaction to get my money back. I will never place another order with them. Saturn on the other hand I have had very good experience with.

Mark
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 24, 2014 03:24AM)
There were a few teething issues in the early days of the operation but give him his due, Costas has ironed out any problems and now runs a very slick operation.
Message: Posted by: Mark_Chandaue (Nov 24, 2014 03:41AM)
After my experience you could not pay me to order from them. I don't call taking my money then ignoring my calls, voice mails and emails a teething problem. To this day I have still not heard back from them and had I not disputed the transaction I am confident I'd never have received the goods or a refund.

Mark
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 24, 2014 03:50AM)
Are you sure you aren't confusing them with World Magic Shop? :lol:
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (Nov 24, 2014 04:26AM)
I think is all very clear why wayne dobson pulled out of the magic circle dealers day now !

Even if he could not make it , his spokesman could have run the stand .
Message: Posted by: Mark_Chandaue (Nov 24, 2014 06:00AM)
[quote]On Nov 24, 2014, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
Are you sure you aren't confusing them with World Magic Shop? :lol: [/quote]
No I'm not, my first order with WMS took a while but it took 1 call to fix it. I called magic Tao dozens of times over several weeks and sent several emails, no response from them whatsoever. I ended up with no choice but to dispute the transaction.

Mark
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 24, 2014 06:11AM)
Must have been a while back. Customer service is first class now.
Message: Posted by: The Greek (Nov 24, 2014 06:24AM)
This isn't the place to talk about these matters. All I can say is that this order was sorted out a while ago. We do strive to offer excellent customer service and do are best to become even more efficient.

Back on topic.
Message: Posted by: mike donoghue (Nov 24, 2014 06:36AM)
Hi Boinko,

i agree totally with you.

I made the same point earlier.

Still I am going to work with this.

Mike Donoghue
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Nov 24, 2014 11:25AM)
[quote]On Nov 23, 2014, tricktac wrote:
If you do ANY card to box, and I mean literally any at all, and the emphasis is on the box and not the folded card, then magic isn't for you.

Harsh assessment, but true. [/quote]

then magic isn't for you.

Really what twaddle,i will just give up all my hard years and years of work for daring to THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX pun intended,so if an examinable box came out tomorrow, you would not be interested,yeh right,yes we know the emphasis is on the card but it is niceto beable to think and possibly break other bounderies and make thing's look more impossible,as many new inventions and clever idea's are hitting the market,just stay in your 1 DIMENTIONAL world of magic then,harsh enough for you?.
Message: Posted by: tricktac (Nov 24, 2014 12:00PM)
Well I suppose I asked for that, I meant no offence. I was just trying to make the point that the emphasis should be on the card not the box. I apologise if I came across badly.
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Nov 24, 2014 12:24PM)
[quote]On Nov 24, 2014, tricktac wrote:
Well I suppose I asked for that, I meant no offence. I was just trying to make the point that the emphasis should be on the card not the box. I apologise if I came across badly. [/quote]
No worries tricktac,I too to behonest owe you an apology,we all get excited and passionate about our art and sometimes we all read wrong into other peoples thought's or written word or spoken come to that, so I am very sorry for jumping the gun ,it was just that one line, magic not for you,lol,my mind is alway's trying to think more impossible invention's,none work to good so far,lol,all the best.
Shane
Message: Posted by: asherfox (Nov 25, 2014 09:37AM)
Harsh but not true. I guess.
The fact is many "new" inventions and "clever" idea coming out and people are wasting more money on these magician toys. Most of them bring nothing new to audience.
Message: Posted by: Mark_Chandaue (Nov 25, 2014 12:23PM)
I must admit that for me examinability (is that even a word) is not a factor at all. If an examinable box came out tomorrow it would not factor into my buying decision at all. If a spectator feels the need to examine a completely transparent box then I have failed epically in my presentation. The fact that the box is see through on all sides should be enough to render it above suspicion not to mention that the advantage of a crystal clear box is that it puts the emphasis on the contents rather than the container itself. The day that I cannot effortlessly convince spectators that a box that is obviously totally transparent on all sides is no more than a clear box is the day that I need to give up performing.

Mark
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Nov 25, 2014 01:50PM)
Mark I like the fact that I CAN give out a box for them to examine ,if EVER you get a spectator WHO WANTS to,i WANT to do the impossible,that is why and what I strive to do if you are happy with what you do ,then let it be so,just beacause most boxs can not be EXAMINED ,does not mean it would be great to have one.No one has ever ASK me,by the way and my 3 box routine worked a treat,but I want more all the time,i want to push push and push the barriers of impossiblity,when I loose the passion then I'll give up then,i will keep going beacuse there are more people out there that get ENTERTAINED and have fun by me and that's good enough for me and I hope you enjoy how and what you do that's what magic is for me,not peoples constant views on, oh you do not do it that ,oh think like this or do not THINK OUT SIDE THE BOX,nothing wrong in trying to improvre on things and get better.


The fact is many "new" inventions and "clever" idea coming out and people are wasting more money on these magician toys. Most of them bring nothing new to audience. yes that is quite true asherfox
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (Nov 26, 2014 01:51AM)
I have been using the Kennedy box for years and no one has ever asked to "examine" the box

This obsession to examine everything is strange to me

I still can't see what advantage this box has over the others that are available
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 27, 2014 03:44PM)
For all you guys who were dissing this effect BEFORE it was released, I love Wayne's recent response to you all. :lol:
Message: Posted by: ABK-Magic (Nov 27, 2014 04:05PM)
I am still waiting for mine since month.
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (Nov 28, 2014 01:44AM)
[quote]On Nov 27, 2014, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
For all you guys who were dissing this effect BEFORE it was released, I love Wayne's recent response to you all. :lol: [/quote]

I guess this is another one of your " joke" posts
Bit like your hidden hand repose from Sean eneded up his response was nothing !

So far no one has posed a video of using the box without any BA even though we have all the claims that it can be done

No one has answered the question what does this being to the table that can't be done with any other box
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 28, 2014 02:04AM)
I don't do joke posts.

It is there for all to see on Wayne's facebook page.

I would cut and paste it here but facebook will probably sue me for copyright infringement as they own all content that is posted.
Message: Posted by: CarlMcCoy (Nov 28, 2014 02:23AM)
I'm not bothered by that Jamie, so I'll do it for you:

"3Sixty by Wayne Dobson:

Here goes: justifying myself when I have done nothing wrong! I don't ever go on magic forums as it just winds me up. However, somebody mentioned to me how people were rubbishing my effect before they even saw it. However, all the anoraks and not rights have now started backpedalling! They also criticised me a few months ago on the same thread for advertising for preorders saying that it was a con and they will not benefit from preorders so they would wait for release (that is fine by me) and that if I had faith in my trick, I wouldn't need preorders and somebody even suggested that if I was confident enough, why didn't I remortgage my house? Well, just to let you know I only did preorders because lots of people asked Mike Sullivan, who was road testing the product for DTRIK if we would take preorders? We decided to take preorders and so made it worth their while, by giving them 10% discount plus free shipping and PayPal charges, plus my new lecture notes a total value of £22 free! So Thank you to the many loyal customers that had faith in my product and that my intentions were genuine! Thank you also to the numerous heavyweight names in magic that are continually praising DTRIK's first self publication release.
Prepare for the next release however, I have to go and chat to be building society about, a remortgage as we are only doing 45 units and they are going to be 48p each,And it is by that great magician Bertie Dellend.

Wayne"
Message: Posted by: CarlMcCoy (Nov 28, 2014 02:25AM)
Also, the comments to Wayne's post make for good reading too, here is just the first line of one and he sums everything up pretty well methnks:

"For those of you who know me you will know that I don't mix well with 'magicians' who are fickle, self important, backstabbing tossers. Ergo ... I don't have many friends who are magicians."
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (Nov 28, 2014 03:37AM)
[quote]On Nov 28, 2014, CarlMcCoy wrote:
I'm not bothered by that Jamie, so I'll do it for you:

"3Sixty by Wayne Dobson:

Here goes: justifying myself when I have done nothing wrong! I don't ever go on magic forums as it just winds me up. However, somebody mentioned to me how people were rubbishing my effect before they even saw it. However, all the anoraks and not rights have now started backpedalling! They also criticised me a few months ago on the same thread for advertising for preorders saying that it was a con and they will not benefit from preorders so they would wait for release (that is fine by me) and that if I had faith in my trick, I wouldn't need preorders and somebody even suggested that if I was confident enough, why didn't I remortgage my house? Well, just to let you know I only did preorders because lots of people asked Mike Sullivan, who was road testing the product for DTRIK if we would take preorders? We decided to take preorders and so made it worth their while, by giving them 10% discount plus free shipping and PayPal charges, plus my new lecture notes a total value of £22 free! So Thank you to the many loyal customers that had faith in my product and that my intentions were genuine! Thank you also to the numerous heavyweight names in magic that are continually praising DTRIK's first self publication release.
Prepare for the next release however, I have to go and chat to be building society about, a remortgage as we are only doing 45 units and they are going to be 48p each,And it is by that great magician Bertie Dellend.

Wayne" [/quote]

Hi Carl

It does not answer the question that I posted what does this being to the table that can't be done with any other box ?

but good to see the other point of view, even though Wayne Spokesman did not mention anything about the Free Gifts in his orignal post

Funny that Jamie normally does not mind copying a pasting for his so called scoops but not for this item
Message: Posted by: CarlMcCoy (Nov 28, 2014 05:19AM)
Hi Jack.

You're right it doesn't answer your question...I just thought I'd paste it up to save people going to the trouble.

I don't own any of boxes being mentioned on this and the other threads so cannot answer you either I'm afraid. From what I've read it seems to be down to this one being examinable at the end, but to be honest I'm not entirely sure why it's so important that it's examinable. For me, if someone showed me a completely clear perspex box with a card in it, then tipped out the card to leave an empty completely clear perspex box, the last thing on my mind would be "Hmmmm, I bet there's something fishy going on with that completely clear perspex box...I'll ask the guy if I can have a look at it when he's stopped talking about teleportation or whatever nonsense he's mumbling about now. I do like his Ace of Spades tie though."
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 28, 2014 05:38AM)
[quote]On Nov 28, 2014, CarlMcCoy wrote:
"I'll ask the guy if I can have a look at it when he's stopped talking about teleportation or whatever nonsense he's mumbling about now. I do like his Ace of Spades tie though." [/quote]
I didn't know you had seen my act!
Message: Posted by: CarlMcCoy (Nov 28, 2014 06:30AM)
I haven't Jamie...it was just a wild stab in the dark.
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (Nov 28, 2014 06:56AM)
[quote]On Nov 28, 2014, CarlMcCoy wrote:
Hi Jack.

You're right it doesn't answer your question...I just thought I'd paste it up to save people going to the trouble.

I don't own any of boxes being mentioned on this and the other threads so cannot answer you either I'm afraid. From what I've read it seems to be down to this one being examinable at the end, but to be honest I'm not entirely sure why it's so important that it's examinable. For me, if someone showed me a completely clear perspex box with a card in it, then tipped out the card to leave an empty completely clear perspex box, the last thing on my mind would be "Hmmmm, I bet there's something fishy going on with that completely clear perspex box...I'll ask the guy if I can have a look at it when he's stopped talking about teleportation or whatever nonsense he's mumbling about now. I do like his Ace of Spades tie though." [/quote]

Have to Agree with you , if the only advantage is it can be examined then that does not justify buying another Box
Message: Posted by: faro (Nov 30, 2014 03:54AM)
There are at least three different transparent boxes on the market now.
Only the 3sixty you can give at the end to control but you must conceale something...
the best stay the original one imho.
Message: Posted by: MagicMike101 (Nov 30, 2014 02:24PM)
Http://youtu.be/DqTPlK8qiB4
Message: Posted by: AdamChance (Nov 30, 2014 04:30PM)
I have the Kennedy Mystery Box and to me, exainability is extremely important. After I dump the card out, I leave the box on the table. Half the time, people look at the box for a few seconds just because it's kind of an interesting looking box and because people have no explanation for what just happened. They're so dumb founded that they search for a solution, and they look at the box for a few seconds and then realize there's nothing to find and just continue to be perplexed.

Even though examinability isn't absolutely necessary with the mystery box plot, it's still a very nice feature.
Message: Posted by: DigaMag (Dec 1, 2014 12:24AM)
Can someone who have this tell me about can the gimmick adapted to another brand of playing card ?

Thanks in advance...

Diga
Message: Posted by: Martin.Lester (Dec 1, 2014 01:10AM)
[quote]On Nov 30, 2014, MagicMike101 wrote:
Http://youtu.be/DqTPlK8qiB4 [/quote]

Not sure what the point of re posting the demo , which is not very good to say the least

On David Penn demo at least it is clearly shown all this shows is a box on a black close up pad

Along with a load of digital effects , not helpful at all,
Message: Posted by: The Greek (Dec 1, 2014 01:19AM)
You can see an unedited performance here. http://www.magictao.co.uk/TaoTV/Weekly-Magazine-EP-09
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Dec 1, 2014 02:01AM)
[quote]On Nov 30, 2014, AdamChance wrote:
I have the Kennedy Mystery Box and to me, exainability is extremely important. After I dump the card out, I leave the box on the table. Half the time, people look at the box for a few seconds just because it's kind of an interesting looking box and because people have no explanation for what just happened. They're so dumb founded that they search for a solution, and they look at the box for a few seconds and then realize there's nothing to find and just continue to be perplexed.

Even though examinability isn't absolutely necessary with the mystery box plot, it's still a very nice feature. [/quote]

Exatly my thought's Adam,but watch out you will have the OH WHY HAVE YOU GOT TO HAVE THE BOX EXAMINED brigade on,if it can be why not,i don't here have a look at this box ,no but even greater if you get the cocky one's who think they know it all, only to be shocked when they are wrong.
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Dec 1, 2014 05:37PM)
I saw this at my local magic club and again at the international convention and I don't care who performs it in my opinion it's pony to say the least you are left with a black bag and are as dirty as hell . It was produced just for the sake of saying it's different in my opinion . Any decent reviews I have found are just people just trying to justify a bad purchase before it slowly ends up in their magic drawer . Even Mike demoing it was apologetic as it was truly that bad .
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Dec 1, 2014 07:50PM)
Pony is right, in my view. Well said.
Message: Posted by: Martin.Lester (Dec 2, 2014 01:31AM)
[quote]On Dec 1, 2014, Tarik Flash wrote:
I saw this at my local magic club and again at the international convention and I don't care who performs it in my opinion it's pony to say the least you are left with a black bag and are as dirty as hell . It was produced just for the sake of saying it's different in my opinion . Any decent reviews I have found are just people just trying to justify a bad purchase before it slowly ends up in their magic drawer . [/quote]

Or put it on tricks for sale section / Ebay

[quote]
Even Mike demoing it was apologetic as it was truly that bad . [/quote]

Case of 3 steps back instead of 1 step forward
Message: Posted by: Kjellstrom (Dec 4, 2014 09:26AM)
I like this box very much, this ONE I will use, sure.

A new superb handling by Nick Einhorn is included in the video instruction that are very clean/clever.

I give this "magic" box 9 out of 10.
Message: Posted by: Kjellstrom (Dec 4, 2014 12:43PM)
[quote]On Dec 1, 2014, DigaMag wrote:
Can someone who have this tell me about can the gimmick adapted to another brand of playing card ?

Thanks in advance...

Diga [/quote]

Yes, that is possible...
Message: Posted by: bobgill (Dec 5, 2014 09:58AM)
Wow, the various approaches to this effect have produced a veritable deluge of comment, arguments, trolls and opinion over the last month or two.
And, after all, that's what a Forum is all about.
I've had the opportunity to handle all the versions outlined below, as well as reminding us all of a couple that have been around for a while now that are venturing into the same territory.
A couple of preliminary observations:
- these props are not cheap. Not everyone can afford to get all of them and only then decide which they will use. What we all try to do is research as much as we can before voting with our wallets. So the information gathered together on the various posts and threads on the Café - which number in the hundreds - provide a great deal of information, which is worthy of your attention.
- as several have observed, it is a little difficult to compare these products, since they do not all set out to achieve the precise same effect. This depends partly on how you structure your routine and the rationale you provide in your presentation, and partly on the nature of the prop itself. The original Card in Box (Bruno Hennig, much shown by Kaps and taken up by Tommy Wonder so, erm, wonderfully) had the climax card as a surprise. It can be a prediction, a transposition, a card in impossible place, or little more than a puzzle. You can do it with cards, business cards, money, or billets.
- then again the performing conditions will dictate your approach - stand up, table hopping, mix and mingle, social situations.
I admire the passion some have shown in their support of one model versus another: but because of the foregoing issues, it is not a simple "this is the best". Indeed, you might actually need more than one, to cover different performing situations: just as you might well have more than one wallet to cover different circumstances.
Here's my input, if it helps.

Here’s my verdict:
1st prize - The Box, Mark Southworth
2nd - 3Sixty, Wayne Dobson
3rd - Fob, David Penn
4th - Mystery Solved, David Penn
5th - Clarity Box - David Regal

My rationale:

- the box used in Southworth's The Box looks natural, the sort of plastic box you'd get from a hardware store containing panel pins or paper clips. The others look like magic props.
That, of course, will appeal to some magicians, particularly amateurs, who like to own nice props.

- the visual impact of The Box, at the point of tipping the card into your hand for the Sh*****e P**s, looks stronger and more fooling by far. Even magicians in the know will swear the card changes in mid-air. It is a very clear, clean, mysterious moment.

- big point: in The Box, the card looks like a true, folded card (because it is). The others (including Clarity Box) only have a single piece of card (as did Kennedy’s Mystery box that started all this off years ago.)

- With The Box you finish neatly. 3Sixty allows you to hand the box out - but even the inventor says he only does it 20% of the time. There’s no way they should have any interest in the box - all attention (incl yours) should be on the card being unfolded and the signature examined. And you are left with the slightly messy position of the gimmick being in full sight, and having to be got rid of. With Mystery Solved, you notice a hasty rush to pocket the box - it can’t be left in full sight.

- I really like the physical box Wayne Dobson has had made especially for this - it is chunky, looks terrific, is a delight to own and handle. So the magician in you will go for this one. Plus, every time you do the necessary to finish clean, you'll smile inwardly to yourself.

- the one benefit the Mystery Solved boasts is the ability to place a card/billet into the empty box at the outset, then reveal it at the end. THIS CAN BE DONE WITH THE BOX, and 3SIXTY! Pick up a card from the deck, or in your pocket if it’s a billet, fold it into quarters, switch it for the fake, open the empty box and place it on the gimmick. Bold, but possible. [That said, I wouldn’t bother, as I use the box for Confabulation, so having the billet prediction in the box at the outset is fine - nothing for me to 'prove', whereas magicians invariably feel the need to 'prove'.]

- the Clarity Box is purely for stand-up use, where its rationale is as "an emergency in case something ever goes wrong." Theatrically this is a strong premise, I think, and I would put it up for comparison with The Destination Box rather than these products.

- I still like Fob. It's similar in effect - folded card in a clear fob on your keyring, rather than a box on the table. It is clean, and very strong for the right conditions.

All that said, my favourite CARD IN BOX routine is Tommy Wonder's, which I think is delectable to watch and to perform. But this is with an opaque box, rather than a clear one, so is not entirely within the remit of this topic. With a card in box I like the fact the card has been there all along comes as a surprise to them - I think it works better theatrically.

My favourite BILLET IN CLEAR BOX is Mark Southworth's The Box, because it makes sense for the prediction to be on view from the outset.

Now, which is the best prop for signed card to wallet.....
Message: Posted by: MagieLucas (Dec 6, 2014 04:56PM)
This is very nice trick. I have the Kennedy box but I like it being clear and ability for spectator to examine the box at the end which si good.
Message: Posted by: bobgill (Feb 11, 2015 11:15AM)
I notice that Wayne's website claims he's sold out of 3Sixty. That's a lot of boxes - a lot of interest in this genre.
Message: Posted by: Jerskin (Feb 11, 2015 06:39PM)
Worked with Jon Allen last week at the Magic Castle.
He has a version coming out at Blackpool that's going to be the industry standard.