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Topic: Best Cup Routines?
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Oct 22, 2014 05:42PM)
There seem to be a lot of best cup. Or what kind cups do people buy? But this is about best routines.

I like the Jim Ryan and Dai Vernon routines.

And the David Roth Chop cup routine.

Anyone else?
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Oct 22, 2014 06:37PM)
Man this is a hard one!

I like (and perform) the Michael Skinner "Impromptu Cups and Balls Routine", John Mendoza's brilliant "Sequel to the John Mendoza Cups and Balls Routine (including the actual Mendoza C&B routine), and Irv Weiner's "Non-nesting Cups and Balls" depending on the venue and what I am carrying. I consider the three to be great for small venue and close-up work. I guess for all around amazement my first choice for "best" would be Mendoza's. For totally impromptu I'd rank Skinner's the absolute best.

However for big venues and street work I like Gazzo's routine (a take on Vernon's routine). The Gazzo touch is hard to beat for the big venue performance.

For Chop Cup It is difficult to beat Don Allen's (as outlined by Ron Bauer). But I like/learned Ken Brooke's handling (and love watching Paul Daniels perform it). I'd say that the Brooke version is almost pure Allen with a minor touch or two difference. I learned the Brooke routine first and thought at the time it was the pure Allen routine.

I also like Jim Sisti's "The Working Professional's Chop Cup". Sisti's is pretty much the Allen/Brooke handling with a different patter line (knot making the spectator the foil and taking the sting out of the presentation).

I pretty much do the Brooke version using the Sisti patter idea and with a Mendoza cup (bought from John and an approved item).
Message: Posted by: pepka (Oct 23, 2014 12:35AM)
Max Maven once said that if you watch any magician perform the cups, odds are over 90% that it's some version of Vernon. When I did a 3 cup routine, it certainly was. I just eliminated the fake exposure sequence. My favorite 3 cup routines are based on his as well....Ammar and Gertner. But if you want a REAL fooler, check out Kent Gunn's with 3 different colored balls. For quite a while I've been wanting to work up a 2 cup routine. I really love Williamson's and Tommy Wonder's.
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Oct 24, 2014 05:29AM)
I agree that Kent Gunn's routine is a real killer! I like it very much and it has a lot going on. It can be found in manuscript form at http://www.lybrary.com.

Two cup routines!! Tommy Wonder, much like Vernon, set a standard that is difficult to beat. That said I still prefer John Ramsey's two cup routine. Ramsey's is less self-contained and I believe has more magic and WOW moments. Garry Oullete's "Golden Goblets" is another excellent routine as is Carl Andrew's "Table Hopping Cups and Balls".

Honestly they are all good and any one of these would be a great routine to perform.

For me the Ramsey two cup routine is arguably the best.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Oct 24, 2014 07:28AM)
I have evolved my own routine (I have more than one but I am talking about my workers routine) that has 2 new sleights/ handling and a final load sequence. It's been tightened, sanded, tweaked and honed over 15 years. It's now half as long as it started and is very tight. There's also a lot of psychology involved and indirect language patterns.

The tendency to show and demonstrate every move, sleight and sequence I knew held me back for many years. I believe I have reached the point where adding or taking away anything would detract. I think it's at the point where I am happy to stop changing it and work more on the presentation and delivery.

The main features I am most happy about are the fact that I am free of clutter until I want to perform the cups. No pocket loads, nothing in the pockets or around the body and it's always set and ready to go. That was was biggest problem I had to overcome and the solution is something that pleases me greatly.
So, in terms of the best cup routine, it may not be the best, but it's the best for *me* because it's grown and evolved with me for many, many years. :)

For those who are interested here's my handling of the 0 3 0 sequence...

[youtube]RBVa1mVb4Zo[/youtube]
Message: Posted by: BeThePlunk (Oct 24, 2014 12:30PM)
Very pretty c&bmagic. Thanks for sharing that.
Message: Posted by: ROBERT BLAKE (Oct 24, 2014 12:44PM)
Very nice
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Oct 24, 2014 12:45PM)
C&BM you are spot on when you say that "best" is what you built to work for you. I think "best' is the routine that one uses and garners a good response from. Whatever the start point. I wonder what are your final loads since you don't use pocket loads?
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Oct 24, 2014 12:46PM)
Thank you. You're welcome.

Not many people mention Aldo Colombini's cups and balls, I really liked the rhythm and pace he had with his... :)

I literally stopped him in his tracks at the Blackpool magic convention one year.

I was walking towards him and I tripped! Yeah, not the kind of "stopping him in his tracks" you expected right! I was only in my teens and I was so embarrassed!

Bri
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Oct 24, 2014 12:48PM)
Thank you Robert :)

Thanks Harry :) I can only do my best routine, it's often hard to take on someone else's. That's when we also start to try and become them too. How many people are doing Gazzo's routine word for word...?

Bri
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Oct 24, 2014 07:46PM)
Very nice
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Oct 25, 2014 03:25AM)
Thanks :)
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Oct 25, 2014 05:27AM)
Any UK magicians might want to PM Brian about the upcoming C&B workshop, on Nov 21st. There is only one place left...
Message: Posted by: ROBERT BLAKE (Oct 25, 2014 07:47AM)
I like the benson bowl routine from Don Alan a lot.

and what about this routine from Richard Ross? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vrdx89Qz0g
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Oct 25, 2014 08:02AM)
Thanks Tomsk192! Indeed there is!

Good point Robert, I like Benson bowl routines in general. Pat Page's is great. Simple and direct. I love Jeff McBrides!

I agree Robert, Richard Ross si wonderful!

Bri
Message: Posted by: Gary Kosnitzky (Oct 25, 2014 01:31PM)
Vazhakunnam Neelakanthan Namboothiri's.
Message: Posted by: slowdini (Nov 19, 2014 09:12AM)
Have yall seen this?!
http://youtu.be/nDoVmlMdyi8
Message: Posted by: cheesewrestler (Nov 19, 2014 08:28PM)
John Ramsay's routine is best.

Johnny Paul's routine is best.

John Mendoza's routine is best.

There is no "best".
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Nov 19, 2014 08:37PM)
[quote]On Nov 19, 2014, cheesewrestler wrote:
John Ramsay's routine is best.

Johnny Paul's routine is best.

John Mendoza's routine is best.

There is no "best". [/quote]


But there are definitely a lot of "worsts" or "so-so's."
Message: Posted by: cheesewrestler (Nov 19, 2014 09:02PM)
[quote]On Nov 19, 2014, Bill Palmer wrote:
[quote]On Nov 19, 2014, cheesewrestler wrote:
John Ramsay's routine is best.

Johnny Paul's routine is best.

John Mendoza's routine is best.

There is no "best". [/quote]


But there are definitely a lot of "worsts" or "so-so's." [/quote]

That wasn't the question.
Message: Posted by: ZachDavenport (Dec 9, 2014 11:18PM)
[quote]On Nov 19, 2014, slowdini wrote:
Have yall seen this?!
http://youtu.be/nDoVmlMdyi8 [/quote]
I don't like it. There is to much being squeezed into to little an amount of time, and the music distracts from the magic a lot.
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (May 15, 2015 07:32AM)
I know that strictly its not a straight cups and balls routine, but Baltass by Yann Frisch is my favourite to watch.
Message: Posted by: Gary Kosnitzky (May 15, 2015 08:32PM)
May not be the best but definitely different.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t88TicT-6U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUqmter5VeI
Message: Posted by: Leo H (May 15, 2015 11:23PM)
Michael Skinner's routine is definitely one of the best. It's a bit Skinner, a bit Miller, and a touch of Vernon.
Message: Posted by: bigfoot (May 25, 2015 11:38AM)
I would have to vote for tommy wonder. The fact that he used such brazen things right in front of your eyes makes it a real fooler. Plus his handling is so different than any other. The fact that it fools magician and lay audiences alike is a rare thing as well.
Message: Posted by: MontrealMagic (Jun 16, 2015 10:10AM)
I just watched Kent Gunn's routine.....twice....and I was totally fooled twice. C&B are my new obsession and I am loving it!
Message: Posted by: Gerald Deutsch (Jun 21, 2015 12:18PM)
I posted this routine - which has the Dr jaks ending - on the Perverse Magic thread on April 2, 2004. The effect is as follows:

The routine is done seated with the audience facing the performer.

1 A cup (or bowl) is shown empty and placed on the table.

2 A bagless purse frame is shown and a sponge ball is produced from it.

3 The ball vanishes and is shown under the cup.

4 That ball is covered by the cup and another ball is produced from the purse frame.

5 That ball is vanished and 2 balls are shown under the cup.

6 The magician puts one ball in his left hand and puts a pen in his left hand and a second ball is taken in his right hand which takes the other end of the pen.

The magician shows that the ball is no longer in the left hand and there are now 2 balls in the right hand - one ball having gone through the pen.

7 This is repeated but although there is no ball in the left hand, there is only one in the right hand. The magician looks puzzled and then looks under the cup and finds the missing ball. He scratches his head in confusion.

8 The magician tells the spectator that her hand will be the cup. On ball is given to the spectator and the magician takes the other. The magician's ball vanishes and the spectator has 2.

9 The spectator is given both balls and the magician looks in the purse for another. He finds only a tissue. He looks in his pocket but still can't find another. Finally, he asks the spectator to open her hand and she finds she has 3.

10 The spectator is asked to pick up 2 and the magician takes 1. The magician vanishes his ball and tells the spectator to open her hand and when she does a dozen or so balls fall out much to the surprise of the spectator and the magician.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Jul 14, 2015 06:24PM)
[quote]On May 15, 2015, Gary Kosnitzky wrote:
May not be the best but definitely different.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t88TicT-6U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUqmter5VeI [/quote]

Both authentic and beautiful. You are too modest.
Message: Posted by: rik brooks (Jul 31, 2015 09:43AM)
I love Harry Lorraine's routine. It has 7 final loads. I've gotten a lot of comments like, "I've seen that trick but the extra balls caught me completely off guard."

OK, my routine has changed so many time from Harry's, and I use combination cups, but Harry's is where I got the inspiration.
Message: Posted by: GS121002 (Aug 27, 2015 03:12PM)
[quote]On Oct 22, 2014, bishthemagish wrote:
There seem to be a lot of best cup. Or what kind cups do people buy? But this is about best routines.

I like the Jim Ryan and Dai Vernon routines. And the David Roth Chop cup routine.

Anyone else? [/quote]

There are many skilled performers but I really like this routine by Ricky Jay...

[youtube]Hgm4wZCACYg[/youtube]
Message: Posted by: GS121002 (Sep 6, 2015 10:32AM)
[quote]On Nov 19, 2014, slowdini wrote:
Have yall seen this?!
[youtube]nDoVmlMdyi8[/youtube] [/quote]

Holy Shiitake Mushrooms, Batman! That was unbelievable!
Message: Posted by: GS121002 (Sep 6, 2015 10:59AM)
And another version of the his award winning routine....

[youtube]FHqGmwDdloA[/youtube]

I'm still amazed!
Message: Posted by: Peckham (Dec 3, 2015 06:21PM)
My favorite has always been the Gary Ouellet Two Goblets Routine.
Message: Posted by: Larry Barnowsky (Dec 4, 2015 06:25PM)
My favorite is my own routine in The Book of Destiny and the companion DVD.


Larry
Message: Posted by: HarryB (Dec 4, 2015 08:02PM)
I have never seen Hayashi's routine and I have done a lot of research (youtube watching). I loved his elegant use of the wand. Thanks for posting!
Message: Posted by: HarryB (Dec 4, 2015 09:06PM)
In all the excitement I forgot to give my opinion of what I consider the best. For traditional It's hard to beat Ricky Jay's routine. For non-traditional it's hard to beat Yann Frisch. That guy is a freaking genius if you ask me. I was totally blown away. For a one cup and three ball routine, I like Pipo's routine.
Message: Posted by: cbguy (Apr 28, 2016 02:27PM)
Gazzo's routine is easy and allows you to be personable. It's also flexible enough that you can add to it or take parts away. However I feel too many people copy it to closely and there are too many final loads.

I use most of Gazzos routine, however, I only use one final load. More than that is anti climatic...in my opinion which is only based on my experience and performing style.
Message: Posted by: Glenn Godsey (Jun 13, 2016 12:01PM)
Hayashi is very impressive, but too dramatic and too elaborate for what I always think of as a "street routine".
I have seen them all for over 70 years and my humble opinion is that Kent Gunn's routine is the absolute best.
Message: Posted by: Glenn Godsey (Jun 13, 2016 12:56PM)
For the street, I think Cellini's performance was the best.
Message: Posted by: Glenn Godsey (Jun 13, 2016 12:56PM)
For the street, I think Cellini's performance was the best.
Message: Posted by: Kyoki_Sanitys_Eclipse (Jun 14, 2016 09:44PM)
Wow that was an amazing c&b from Hayashi. I also like Cellini but I'll have to reward his and vernons to k ow the difference. Just a side note. I like to barrow a bill from a spec and use that for the ball in my chop cup routine
Message: Posted by: medievalmagician (Jan 16, 2017 05:14PM)
Wow, some great routines listed on this thread. I eventually want to build my own routine but also want to start with something that's already complete.
Message: Posted by: funsway (Jan 17, 2017 01:55AM)
If your name implies interest, check out Master Payne's routine
Message: Posted by: medievalmagician (Jan 17, 2017 09:12AM)
Funsway, I have checked out Master Payne's and it's great for the target audience I am looking at. I want to perform for/at medieval, SCA, events at some point. But, I don't want to copy Master Payne's routine, not a least with checking with him first about being able to use it. I respect the work that is put into developing routines.