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Topic: I just saved you $10,000
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jan 28, 2004 01:28PM)
On Chris Wasshuber's otherwise excellent website Lybrary.com, he offers to sell the secret of the Knight's Tour with the difficult condition of the spectator choosing the beginning and ending square.

"In order to protect the secret, performance and your investment I will sell my knight-tour only to one person per state in the US, and to one person per country in the rest of the world. You will have to prove residence in the respective state or country before purchasing. The price of this secret is $10,000 (USD). The reason for such unusual high price tag is the uniquness of the secret and the protection of performance space. You will be the only one in your state or country to possess this secret. It will also deter the merely curious. This is meant for professionals who want to structure a unique performance around it. The knight-tour effect plays extremely strong one-on-one as well as in front of the largest audiences."

Umm . . . Be A Genius. For [i]free[/i]. 'Nuff said.

You can now donate that $10,000 you were going to spend to your favorite charity.

Jack Shalom
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Jan 28, 2004 08:37PM)
$10,000?!?[outdated link] :wow:

To save readers of this thread a little web-searcing, Jack is referring to the section of my website that talks about [url=http://members.aol.com/beagenius/knighttour1.html]doing the knight's tour[/url], with the spectator choosing the beginning and ending squares.

Roget, of thesaurus fame, also has an improvement on the "diamonds and squares" methods, and this can be found at [url=http://www.ktn.freeuk.com/1c.htm]Squares, Diamonds, and Roget's Method[/url].

I'm still shaking my head. $10,000?!?[outdated link]

Update: I just e-mailed Chris and notified him of my website and its contents. I inform you of any response.
Message: Posted by: magicgeorge (Jan 28, 2004 10:44PM)
That's crazy :wow: .I didn't realise it was worth so much I'll have to add it to my kids show :rotf:

Maybe one person per state will fall for this ruse.

On the other hand, although the start square only version is in a few of the magic books I own and often also known by none magii chess players Scott's site is the only place I've ever seen start and end square method.

Did you work it out yourself Scott? (and if so did you ,or did you need to, patent it in time?).If not where did you originally source the information?
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Jan 29, 2004 10:52AM)
I didn't work it out myself. A buddy and I both learned it at the same time from an old math puzzle book (from the 1940's) back in the late '80s/early '90s, and I've been using it ever since.

After I'd posted it to the web, someone else e-mailed me and pointed out that the same method could be found in Pallbearer's Review, a magic magazine from the 1960s and 1970s.

The method itself, as described in the [url=http://www.ktn.freeuk.com/1c.htm]Squares, Diamonds, and Roget's Method[/url] link, comes from the 1820s or 1830s, with several sources publishing it.

With Chris' permission, here's his reply:

[quote]
I am aware of your site but feel that you are not explaining a system that can be used on stage under fire and blindfolded. I know mine can, because I have done it many times in the past. I would have to go into the details of my system to show you where I think it is far superior than what I have seen on your site or anywhere else. Of course there is always the chance that I am not aware of all sites or publications that deal with these kind of knight-tours.

$10,000 is a high price but I have my good reasons for it. If I don't sell a single copy then so be it.

Don't get me wrong, I think your site is great and you are giving the interested a good start in the right direction. But I think it does not compare to what I have developed.

Chris
[/quote]

I must admit to being intrigued now. I won't have $10,000 to spare for some time, but I'm intrigued nonetheless.
Message: Posted by: balducci (Feb 1, 2004 02:29PM)
Are we talking about the same Knight's Tour presented in the widely available "13 Steps to mentalism" by Corinda (circa 1968), or am I missing something here?

$10,000 ... wow!

Whoops, I see we're talking about a version that permits a spectator to select the starting and ending squares ... okay, maybe that's a little trickier than the version in Corinda.
Message: Posted by: Reg Rozee (Feb 10, 2004 04:16PM)
There is a presentation of it in Tarbell that allows you to start on any square selected (not sure about ending though). There is even a note on how you can present it under certain conditions without memorizing any system or order. I'll dig out the volume and page number if anyone is really interested.

-Reg {*}
Message: Posted by: JasonEngland (Feb 13, 2004 12:57AM)
I'm curious, does anyone know how many different possible "Knight's Tour" paths there are? Consider mirror images to be a single path.

Jason
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Feb 13, 2004 10:12AM)
The number of knight's tours that are possible on a normal chessboard is surprisingly big. Actually it is so big that simple counting of tours is out of reach even for the fast computers of today. The problem has to be tackled in other ways. In 1995 Martin Löbbing and Ingo Wegener proclaimed that "the number of knight's tours equals 33,439,123,484,294" (that's in the [i]trillions[/i]!). They obtained this result by running 20 Sun workstations for four months.

I'm not sure how to adjust for your "mirror images" qualification, because a mirrored knight's tour would, by definition, have a different starting and ending point, and thus technically be a different Knight's Tour path. In addition, there can be mirror image paths along both the X and Y axis of the board, so you'd actually be considering four different Knight's Tours, each with a different starting and ending point, as one path.
Message: Posted by: JasonEngland (Feb 13, 2004 10:49AM)
That's very interesting Scott.

What I meant by "mirror images" is simply this: Consider that it is possible to produce a path from one white corner square to near the other (from A8 to H2). Now, it is possible to create an identical "mirror image" path from A2 to H8. I would count these as essentially the same path.

A related question: How many paths would you have to memorize to tackle the Knight's Tour from any square to another specified square with brute force memory?

Again, mirror images and working backwards (the path from C1 to C8 is the same as from C8 to C1) allows you to eliminate duplicate paths, but how many would you need?

Jason
Message: Posted by: matthu (Mar 9, 2004 02:34PM)
I suppose the big question is: how much would any member of the audience be prepared to pay to witness somebody doing this amazing feat?

Somebody tell me this is a wind-up! I've been a pretty serious chess player at one stage, but I think that would even bore the pants off me. A LOT of people don't even understand how to play chess ... so in my humble opinion, I can't see this trick being worth more than $3-50!

It must rank alongside watching somebody compose a crossword puzzle with a dozen pre-selected words.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Mar 9, 2004 06:29PM)
<<It must rank alongside watching somebody compose a crossword puzzle with a dozen pre-selected words>>

Ahhh, I only charge five thousand for that secret.

Jack
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Mar 10, 2004 12:07AM)
[quote]
On 2004-03-09 15:34, matthu wrote:
I suppose the big question is: how much would any member of the audience be prepared to pay to witness somebody doing this amazing feat?
[/quote]

Ask Peter Reveen. His performance of the Knight's Tour has been one of the most talked-about portions of his show for decades.

By the way, the original Knight's Tour offer has been removed from the Lybrary.com site.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Mar 15, 2004 02:32AM)
I saw a video of Peter Reveen doing the Knight's Tour. I wasn't nearly as impressed by his presentation as I was by the presentation I saw Virgil and Julie do "live" at the College of the Mainland in LaPorte, Texas. Maybe what I saw Reveen doing was an earlier version of what he wound up doing.

When Julie did it, it appeared as if she were actually thinking about where the pieces went. I didn't get that from the Reveen presentation.
Message: Posted by: H_Ho (Mar 25, 2004 05:47AM)
How about a knights tour on only half the board? i.e. a 4 by 8 board?
Message: Posted by: landmark (Mar 25, 2004 09:12PM)
Once again, for that, I only charge half the price.

Jack
Message: Posted by: Liam Jones (Mar 27, 2004 11:07AM)
Why so expensive and what is the effect?
Message: Posted by: matthu (Apr 3, 2004 02:34PM)
Liam

Unless you have a ready $10 k, I suggest you visit Scott Cramm's beagenius site - see the site reference in his earlier post!
Message: Posted by: ThorstenHappel (Apr 18, 2004 06:28PM)
[quote]
On 2004-03-09 15:34, matthu wrote:
I suppose the big question is: how much would any member of the audience be prepared to pay to witness somebody doing this amazing feat?

Somebody tell me this is a wind-up! I've been a pretty serious chess player at one stage, but I think that would even bore the pants off me.

[/quote]

The presentation of a blindfolded Knight's Tour is a standard in German magician/mentalist Andy Häussler's professional show for years. The audience freely selects the starting point. A little over halfway into the routine, Andy "predicts" the final field.

Having seen his performance several times, I can tell you that his audience is always amazed and far from bored. Would he keep an effect in his program for years that fails to amaze his audience? I don't think so.

Andy has won several awards for his magic. He has been German champion in 1987, 1990, and 1999. At the FISM world championship 1991 in Lausanne he won the award for best mentalist. He is a boardmember of the German Magic Cicle ("Magischer Zirkel von Deutschland e. V.").
Message: Posted by: owen.daniel (Apr 22, 2004 11:24AM)
It's an amazing effect, but I too agree with the price being a bit steep. But good for you, if you have something, you sell it how you want to! I haven't seen Raveen do this effect, but I remember noticing in the "Best Show I have Seen" review of his show (in MAGIC last year), a picture of him performing it and thinking it was strange to see it being performed on stage as I had previously presumed it was more of a close-up effect. Since then I have re-read the Corinda version, and I can see how that would play for a large audience.

Have you sold any yet?
Good luck,
owen
Message: Posted by: Greg Owen (Jun 18, 2004 12:33PM)
The ridiculously simple method in Corinda seems more than servicable...and does allow for the free choice of the starting square. Then ending square would be known to the performer immediately and could be called at the most theatrically strong moment.

Also no reason it could not be done blindfolded.

- Greg Owen
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Jun 18, 2004 10:27PM)
Yes, but the method in Corinda doesn't allow the [b]spectator[/b] to select the ending square.
Message: Posted by: paulajayne (Jun 23, 2004 09:20PM)
Hi

Download from here:-

http://games.softpedia.com/public/cat/1/1-607.shtml

Paula
Message: Posted by: Magixspinx (Jun 24, 2004 10:16AM)
What is the effect of that??
Message: Posted by: dr chutney (Jul 19, 2004 07:37AM)
[url=http://www.edcollins.com/chess/knights-tour.htm] Some nice magic square variations [/url]
Message: Posted by: sgrossberg (Jul 19, 2004 07:50PM)
Take a look at:

http://www.ludism.org/mentat/KnightsTourMemory?action=highlight&value=KnightsTourMath
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Jul 20, 2004 12:11AM)
Thanks for the reference, Scott! I wrote both the Knight's Tour sections on that page (as well as many other of the "feat" pages, as well). I'm flattered that you thought enough of it to refer people to it.
Message: Posted by: sgrossberg (Jul 20, 2004 11:39AM)
Scott - I thought is sounded/looked familiar. I used your coordinates/mnemonics (with a few changes peculiar to me) just this morning with great success. Thanks. - Scott
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Jul 20, 2004 11:15PM)
I'm glad to hear you're finding it useful. Have you been getting good reactions with it?

One hidden secret that I didn't reveal in that article is that the diagram in section 1.2 is also a magic square!
Message: Posted by: sgrossberg (Jul 21, 2004 09:01AM)
Scott - That's marvelous about the magic square. I actually perform a routine using the magic square, as well, and should have noticed.

As to the Knight's Tour, the strongest reaction lately has come from teenagers and young adults. I had always performed this for an older audience in the past.

However, just recently I have shown this to a younger crowd. Not old enough to remember Lorayne's memory stunts on TV, they are mystified by memory demonstrations.
Message: Posted by: cataquet (Nov 5, 2004 05:40PM)
A minor correction to Scott's post above (21 Jul). That tour is not quite a magic square. A traditional 8x8 magic square would have both diagonals sum to 260, as well as the individual rows and columns. In this case, the diagonals do not sum to 260. For the record, no magic tour (ie, knight's tour that is also a magic square) exists where the diagonals sum to 260. You just need to be aware of this in case some wise guy points out that the diagonals don't sum to 260.
Message: Posted by: Rob Johnston (Nov 8, 2004 01:05PM)
This guy and Steve Fearson should get together!
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (Nov 19, 2004 12:04PM)
I think it would be worth millions if the spectator's could pick any starting square [b]and[/b] any ending square. Starting and ending on a black square would be particularly challenging.
Message: Posted by: balducci (Dec 1, 2004 08:54AM)
[quote]
On 2004-03-09 15:34, matthu wrote:
I suppose the big question is: how much would any member of the audience be prepared to pay to witness somebody doing this amazing feat?

Somebody tell me this is a wind-up! I've been a pretty serious chess player at one stage, but I think that would even bore the pants off me. A LOT of people don't even understand how to play chess ...
[/quote]

Apparently, chess is popular and cool again. So this may be the perfect time to act this routine to one's act :)

---

Chess: the New Rook'n'roll?

Madonna's influence has helped the game become cool.

By Guardian Newspapers, 11/19/2004

"Chess is the game which reflects most honour on human wit" - Voltaire.

Chess has had an image problem. It conjures up thoughts of bespectacled men in anoraks hunched over boards in the upstairs rooms of grotty pubs, or spotty, gangly schoolboys who can't get a girlfriend and make do with the Sicilian Defence (Winawer variation).

"Dysfunctionality" is the word that springs to mind. As former British champion Bill Hartston said: "Chess is not something that drives people mad; it is something that keeps mad people sane." The board's 64 squares are so much less challenging than life.

Chess was not something you could admit a passion for - until now. For Tesco has announced that sales of chess sets are booming and that its new own-brand set is selling at double the rate forecast. It attributes the sales spurt to the fact that celebrities such as Madonna play, and makes a startling claim: chess is trendy.

"Chess, of all the really traditional board games, has undergone an image transformation," said Karen Harris, Tesco's senior buying manager. "Being able to play chess is fast becoming a very cool skill for young people." At last, we chess lovers can out ourselves.

"The celebrity factor is important," said Gerry Walsh, president of the British Chess Federation. "They are role models for the young and encourage them to take up the game. When chess was featured in the first Harry Potter film, we noticed a sudden upsurge in interest."

Madonna and her husband, Guy Ritchie, who have taken chess lessons from former Scottish champion Alan Norris, are the best-known celebrities. But a surprising number of famous names enjoy the game: former world heavyweight boxing champion Lennox Lewis; Andrew Flintoff, the superstar of English cricket, who used to play chess for Lancashire; former snooker world champion Steve Davis; and pop stars Bono, Moby and Sting.

British chess has, however, yet to unearth anyone to rival the Norwegian Simen Agdestein, who is both a chess grandmaster and played football for Norway. If only Wayne Rooney knew the intricacies of the Modern Benoni. "Anything that can get us away from this nerdy image of chess has got to be good," said John Saunders, editor of the British Chess Magazine. "That image has never been true in countries outside the UK and US. In Russia and much of Europe, it's a mainstream sport."

Here, the government has refused to put chess on its list of recognised sports (a move that would have tax advantages). Walsh said his priority was to convince the government to change its mind. The artist and chess obsessive Marcel Duchamp had no doubts. "Chess is a sport, a violent sport," he insisted. "If it's anything at all, it's a fight."

Saunders believes that in the UK the nerdy stereotype dates from the immediate post-war period, when chess was a middle-class, grammar school activity. "If you flick through back copies of the British Chess Magazine from the 1940s and 1950s," he said, "you see an endless succession of elderly men in horn-rimmed spectacles and tweed jackets."

Chess is now played well beyond the confines of grammar schools. According to Walsh, there has been a huge increase in the number of primary-school pupils playing - up to a hundred in every school. Last year's British Land UK Chess Challenge, a nationwide knockout competition for pupils of all ages, attracted 71,000 entries.

Story continues here ...

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/11-19-2004-61892.asp?viewPage=2
Message: Posted by: Laban (Dec 21, 2004 09:53AM)
By now I figured you all talking about some kind of Chessboard equation that will allow you do perform something that will seem magical.
It seems real interesting and I will learn more about it.
But I still can't see what's so special about Landmarks offer?
And how come he really believe that someone will pay $10,000 for a magic trick?
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Feb 6, 2009 12:37AM)
It's time for a 5-year update: Chris Wasshuber has just [url=http://www.lybrary.com/knights-tour-with-free-choice-start-p-5886.html]dropped the price on his Knight's Tour routine by $9,975[/url].

Why buy this when [url=http://mentalgym.freehostia.com/knighttour1.html]my free lesssons[/url] are still available? Well, [url=http://headinside.blogspot.com/2009/02/chris-wasshubers-knights-tour.html]I explain that in today's blog entry[/url]!
Message: Posted by: Enzo (Feb 9, 2009 03:25AM)
Do you know if anyone actually bought it? Guess not, otherwise the 99.75% discount would be pretty stupid.

Thanks for refreshing the thread though, your tutorial on the Knights Tour is great!
Message: Posted by: Enzo (Feb 9, 2009 03:28AM)
From the description on Lybrary.com:
[quote]This manuscript describes in detail this method, which I developed from scratch without knowledge of any other system.[/quote]

Would that be an attempt to retroactively justify the initial price?
Message: Posted by: Chris (Feb 9, 2009 05:16AM)
It is wonderful to see a discussion about a great effect, the knight's tour. Since there is quite a bit of speculation and confusion regarding the historical pricing of it, allow me to explain.

I developed my method 20 years ago. And since I did this from scratch without knowledge of any other method, I was pretty proud of my achievement. I have never seen anybody perform a knight's tour with spectator selected start AND end. Twenty years ago I would have never parted with my creation. I was simply too proud of it. I knew I had something unique just for myself. And I had plans to structure this into a one of a kind performance and tour the world.

But as the years progressed circumstances changed. I did not tour the world with it, nor did I structure a full performance around it. I performed it in close-up settings and parlor settings, but eventually lost interest as a performance piece. It is hard to say why I didn't do more with it. But when you are young all kinds of different interests pull you in many directions.

Five years ago in 2004 I knew that I had no interest to perform as a stage magician. I am a close-up kind of guy. And since I started to build my Lybrary.com business I decided to offer my knight's tour for sale. But I was still very much emotionally attached to my method. Even after 15 years I had not seen anything comparable, and I was still mighty proud of my achievement from 15 years ago. So I didn't want to sell it as the average magic trick. And so I came up with this $10,000 one per state/country idea. My intention was to find a handful of seriously interested people with whom I would practice this effect one-on-one. So the $10,000 included face time and personal instruction, as well as a pretty good protection against copy cats.

A few days after I had posted this offer I pulled it because I simply didn't want to let go of my method. It is hard to describe what goes through your mind, but anybody who has created something before will understand that it is not so easy to let go of your 'baby'.

And now in 2009, after another 5 years, you could say I finally am able to let go of what is probably my most significant creation in magic as of today. My reasons for releasing this have changed from personally teaching a handful of performers, to giving any serious student of magic a chance to learn my method. That is why it is now only $25. The difficulty creates its own exclusivity. There won't be many who decide to master my method and perform it. Nevertheless, I hope that the ones who read it will add their own thinking and further improve on what I created.

I hope that explains it. Scott Cram's blogpost (link above) fairly captures what is new and unique in my method. And I am still mighty proud of it!
Message: Posted by: AllanK (Feb 21, 2009 11:50PM)
I've been playing with Chris's method for the past couple of weeks and can quite confidently say that it is a breakthrough in the performance of the Knight's Tour. I could never commit to memory the standard Corinda sequence - to me it's just a random string of numbers. Chris's method uses a memorised array of numbers with patterns galore, making it very easy to learn. Not only that, you can perform it blindfolded, making it perfect to use with Lior Manor's "21'st Century Knight's Tour".

I've only become interested in the Knight's Tour during the past year and would never consider performing it in a regular show. However, I do have occasion to perform for groups of mathematicians and mathematics teachers - something like the Knight's Tour would go down really well. I think your "regular" group of mathematicians could easily dismiss the usual "cyclic" tour as a feat of memory, but being able to select both the starting and finishing square takes this to a whole new level. I realise that there are other ways of doing this. I've also tried Scott Cramm's elegant method, but his method requires you to see the board. Chris's method is largely done by memory work and, as such, is suited to a "performance piece" where you can be facing away from a large board (or screen in the case of Mr Manor's excellent program).

You will be surprised at how easy this method is. Making it entertaining is another thing altogether!

Congratulations, Chris!

AllanK
Message: Posted by: smith83 (Feb 23, 2009 10:37PM)
This sounds very interesting
Message: Posted by: Chris (Feb 24, 2009 03:10AM)
Allan, thanks a lot for your kind words. I can confirm that this effect is very effective with 'brainy' people, scientists, academics, chess players, smart people in general. I also want to stress that this plays strong close-up. I have done this effect for small groups of people on the table or individuals with great effect.