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Topic: Buddha Papers Mystery
Message: Posted by: Dice (Nov 11, 2014 11:44AM)
I'm looking to perform the Buddha Papers Mystery... I can think of two ways to do it... I'm looking for input on which way is the most deceptive or recommended way to perform it.

1) Flip over each time you place the folded packet inside another... The pros of this method is that you build up a rhythm and consistency that conditions them to the way you are folding the papers. The cons are that there is no reason to do it this way so it may pique the spectators curiosity as to why you are flipping the folded papers every time.

2) Only flip over the gimmicked one... On the one hand this is good because it doesn't raise suspicion every time you fold up a bundle. On the other hand, it makes that one time stand out.

As a follow up, if I choose #1, is it better to do it casually or to flip each one over obviously to show the spectator that there is nothing hiding on the other side? If I choose #2, is there a good way to cover the one flip so it isn't obvious?

Thanks so much!
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Nov 11, 2014 02:05PM)
I got the "real work" on the "papers" when I was a teenager working in a side show (magic, fire, snake lecture). I already knew the method, but, I learned from another carnie, how 5o pitch the prop, and make a "few" bucks every night.

To answer your question, I learned to use the #1 "system". Rhythm, and conditioning! I've NEVER had a mark question it.

Buzz Worth and I would catch late supper at the carnie grab joint almost every night. He was agent for a short range shooting gallery. He was mentoring me (coin sleights). I would head for his joint when we closed for the night,and we would walk down the midway to the grab joint. "Enroute", he would sell an average of 5 or 6 (sometimes more!) papers for $2.00 each. That would buy his supper, breakfast, lunch, and "smokes".

He made up his own papers. He would go to a small job printer,and buy the peper stock, have the printer cut it, and take it back to his trailer. In the morning before the "MGR" (Merry Go Round) organ started, he would make up sets of "Budda" papers. Every carnie has a hustle, and the papers were Buzz's hustle..
Message: Posted by: Dice (Nov 11, 2014 03:03PM)
Actually, the reason I want to do it is because my mother described the trick for me and said her father (who is no longer with us) used to do it at county fairs making a couple of bucks like you describe. I had never seen the trick before but asked around to find out what it was called and now am going to do it for her just as my grandfather did when my mother was a kid. Thanks so much for your help!
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Nov 11, 2014 05:30PM)
Hello again Douse! (You are one and the singular of mice is mouse, so dice/douse! My dear friend, the late Jay Marshall, never did the the old "sucker die bos". He did the douse box!

You're most welcome, I remember being fascinated with the Buddha Papers when I was in elementary school.
..............
The trick was first described in Scot's "Discovery of Witchcraft" pulished in the 1500s! I don't know what the name of the trick was back then. (I wasn't there!)

In 2003, David Tower published "The Magic of the Mystery Papers". It's a 36 page,5 1/2" x 8 1/2" "pamphlet" Tower's address (printed in the booklet in 2003)is DAVID TOWER P.O. BOX 1353 LEBANON MO 65536 I have no idea what the price is/was. I shouldn't think it would be more than $10---Maybe less. I would suggest that you write him and see if it's still available.

Tower talks about the history and psychology of the rrick. He suggests over a dozen different tricks. He gives excellent illustrated directions for constructing a set.

My friend, Graham Putnam, owner of FUN INC. 2100 N. Major Avenue, Chkcago, IL 60639 --- www.funinc.com phone # 773 745 3837 --- sells these (wholesale quantities) Most magic shops sell them. When I was a kid, Johnson-Smith sold them for 15 cents!!!

I wonder if your late grandfather was "Buzz" Worth!!! I knew him the season of 1946. I would guess that he was in his 30s, then.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Woolery (Nov 11, 2014 08:12PM)
I would hardly want to disagree with Mr. Oslund, but I think #2 would work fine. One way to approach the special moment with the papers is with the patter story you use. It can be whatever works for your presentation. Heck, you could talk about how you learned this trick from your grandfather who used to make a few bucks on the side with it. Anyway, you get to the point where the move happens and you pause, look right into the eyes of the person you are entertaining, say something serious like "nobody ever did figure out how he did this." That's the moment when you do the turn. The idea is that your pause emphasizes that what you are about to say is important. All attention comes to your face because you have apparently taken your attention off the paper. Casually resume your folding. The idea is that nobody notices that you even flipped anything.

Misdirection is all about where you get them to spend the limited amount of attention they have. If they are focused on your words, they have less ability to watch your hands.

-Patrick
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Nov 11, 2014 08:32PM)
[quote]On Nov 11, 2014, Dick Oslund wrote:
I got the "real work" on the "papers" when I was a teenager working in a side show (magic, fire, snake lecture). I already knew the method, but, I learned from another carnie, how 5o pitch the prop, and make a "few" bucks every night.

To answer your question, I learned to use the #1 "system". Rhythm, and conditioning! I've NEVER had a mark question it.

Buzz Worth and I would catch late supper at the carnie grab joint almost every night. He was agent for a short range shooting gallery. He was mentoring me (coin sleights). I would head for his joint when we closed for the night,and we would walk down the midway to the grab joint. "Enroute", he would sell an average of 5 or 6 (sometimes more!) papers for $2.00 each. That would buy his supper, breakfast, lunch, and "smokes".

He made up his own papers. He would go to a small job printer,and buy the peper stock, have the printer cut it, and take it back to his trailer. In the morning before the "MGR" (Merry Go Round) organ started, he would make up sets of "Budda" papers. Every carnie has a hustle, and the papers were Buzz's hustle.. [/quote]

I swear to God there is a book here with all of your stories. You've lived a magician's dream, with the people you've met, the jobs you've had, and the lessons you've learned. And I love how you pepper in the trade lingo.I can't get enough.

Alright. That's enough ego feeding for you tonight. Carry on.
Message: Posted by: Donnie Buckley (Nov 12, 2014 02:52PM)
Dick, your first post in this thread is fantastic. Before reading your experience with this old trick, I would have opted for #2, believing that an invisible sleight would have made the effect more straight-forward; and that the rhythmic conditioning would have been observed as "doing something tricky".
I'm happily surprised. Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Nov 13, 2014 09:04AM)
Greetings of the Season Donnie!

Thank you for your welcome good thoughts!

I must be "honest" and suggest that #3 is not necessarily TOTALLY wrong. It's just that I learned the #1 handling, EONS ago, and, I suppose that I'm just too "concitioned" to consider any other way! Also ,it just may be that the old, "EFFECT IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN METHOD", was in Buzz Worth's mind back in 1946! Or, it may be that he was just doing it "the way we've always done it"!

I'll be 83 next month, and I realized a few years ago, that it's very difficult to "UNlearn"! (especially when it's a "habit" of over 60 years!!!)

Friend Woolery's point is certainly worth chccking out! (I've also learned that just because "we've always done it that way" doesn't NECESSARILY make "it" THE way.)

Note my second post. I had just done an archaeological "dig" and "found" David Towers booklet. Again, to be honest, I had never read TOWER's handling "technique" in folding and turning over the papers. I had only read his comments about how effective he had found it to be, and how well it had sold in his shop. Then, I had skimmed through the various ideas he had found successful.

I just now,read his handling techniques, and, if my reading comprehension "still works", he does "1.

I guess I'll need to make up a set of papers, and try both ways. In Mr. Woolery's handling, he uses misdirection to take the spectator's eyes off the packet of papers. A good technique to get the spectator to look up at the performer's face, is to use the spectator's NAME. Just saying: "John!" will usually get John to took up at you for a brief moment.

When I saw "Buddha Papers" at the head of this thread, I just idly opened it, and LOOK! it has stirred up memories of my distant youth! It also has stimulated a good discussion!

See ya on the next lot!

Dick Oslund
Sneaky, underhanded, devious, and surreptitious itinerant mountebanc! --also, soon to be certified as an authentic quacksalver (if I pass the final exam.)
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Nov 13, 2014 09:19AM)
"The Magic of the Mystery Papers" can be found as an eBook on Amazon for a big $2.99 for Kindle unlimited folks it is free. Thank you Dick for the title and author of this little gem of a booklet.

I tend to use method #2 most often. The outer paper is laying flat and I am gesturing with the folded packet. The 'move' is made during a gesture and putting the smaller packet on the larger to fold it up. As a note I use newspaper as the outer sheet most often. It fits my story line. I've used brown wrapping paper tied with corse twine at the start for yet another presentation story line. This little miracle is oft overlooked but does add an interesting interlude. I can't believe that I got my first set almost 60 years ago!

As an aside, Bill Abbott uses the papers with a nice presentation as part of his professional repertoire. You can see it on one of his DVDs.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Nov 13, 2014 11:12AM)
You're most welcome, Harry!

At one of our slmost daily lunches, a couple years ago, Jon Racherbaumer handed me an envelope containing David Towers booklet titled "The Magic of the Mystery Papers". A rather generic title! But, my first glance at the paper cover, confirmed my "suspicion". It was his 36 page "dissertation" (!) on what the old carnies called the "Budda papers".

I was about 11 or 12 when a pal showed me his papers. I had been reading about magic from a few library books, and had done a "show and tell" for my sixth grade class. Here was a new mystery! My friend was tired of it. The novelty had worn off. (He had done the trick, and then showed each kid spectator, how it was done. He had run out of audience. He gave this marvelous mystery to me!

Every kid, in those days, had a Johnson/Smith catalog! (J/S Co. was a mail order company from Racine, Wisconsin. J/S Co. sold a 'gezillion" novelties and booklets with titles to capture a boy's imagination, etc. Somewhat like S.S.Adams, Asbury Park, New Jersey, J/S Co. made its money, 15 and 25 cents at a time. --But, they made it! (Remember! There was no TV, then!

There were no pocket size electronic games! Well, Dick Tracy DID have a "wrist watch radio to communicate with headquarters!) But, we boys only had Captain Midnight, and Little Orphan Annie "decoder" rings and badges. Almost every kid knew the "21 card trick" or, if they were "rich", they had a little red prop called a ball vase.

With a different circle of friends, I now had new "apparatus" to augment my meager collection of paraphernalia! (and, it packed flat!!!!)

A few years later, when I was the "youthful, master magician" in a side show top, and met Buzz Worth, a fellow carnie,who was also a magician, I really appreciated how practical and useful these few scraps of paper were.

I haven't folded one in years. I may just make one up, and relive my boyhood! I wonder if it would get me a contract in Las Vegas!!! (Don't tell Mac King! --He may have competition next year.)

Your handling (after 60 years!) must be "fairly" smooth! Thanks for sharing it. Don't worry about sharing it. If it isn't electronic, or involvle aome "new principle" very few wannabee magicians will bother to give it more than a glance.

I would enjoy seeing Bill Abbott's routine!--Thanks for passing that informatipon along.

Excuse me, I gotta go buy a bottle of rubber cement...........

O

P.S.: This whole darn thread is "Douse's" fault.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Woolery (Nov 13, 2014 12:06PM)
Yes, Harry! I did get my understanding of how to do it from Bill Abbott's DVD on performing magic for kids. Still possibly the best bargain on a magic dvd I have ever gotten.

His presentation uses a story of a criminal making a jailbreak and the move comes at a dramatic moment in the narrative when he pauses and looks at one of the audience.

The only other version I have seen on video is on Paul Gallagher's Miracles From the Sock Drawer. He uses tax forms to illustrate the way the money paid in taxes seems to shrink by the time it comes back around. Another real bargain on a video.

Dick, when will you have that book done? I want a copy.

Patrick
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Nov 14, 2014 12:46AM)
In his book "Final Curtain," Borodin has a routine that used the Buddha Papers in a very unusual way.
Message: Posted by: Kabbalah (Nov 14, 2014 03:13PM)
If you want to screw with your magician friends at your next magic meeting, do "Hen" Fetsch's [b]Buddha's Coin[/b] from Bobo's [i]Modern Coin Magic[/i], pp. 252-253.

This effect uses [b]ungimmicked[/b] papers.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Nov 17, 2014 01:17AM)
The best version of this trick in my opinion was the Clark "The Senator" Crandall sold by Magic Inc. many years ago. It was done with various size giant to small money dollar bills, and had a kicker comedy ending.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Nov 17, 2014 04:43AM)
Bill!

I had totally forgotten Crandall's "version" of the pepers. With your reminder, I now recall "playing" with it when I waa helping out behind the counter at Inc,

Crandall was "one of a kind"! Who else could do a card sword with an ungaffed sKimitar??? hee hee
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Nov 17, 2014 05:24AM)
Hey friend Kabbalah!

Thanks, to you, also! Fetsch's bit with the faux "papers" is a sleeper, that you have reminded me OF! (Note Charlie Miller's use of a preposition to end a sentende WITH!!! --Charlie, and I, use the preposition, because speaking good English, is the fondest thing we are OF).

Also, note that Fetsch uses "method number "1"!!!!!

It seems that we have two "schools of thought"! (#1 and #2) and neither "school" is "wrong". IMHO, it proves again that PRESENTATION and EFFECT, is much more important than METHOD!

--And, Hen Fetsch understood THAT, if anyone did! Your "nudge" got me off of my chair, and into the library, to grab BOBO. This evening, I will do an archaeological dig and find my Cu/Ag coin. I wish I could be in New Orleans, next Monday to tease the young guys with BUDDHA'S COIN!

Now, how did you get Buddha's Coin ITALICIZED??????? I'm stuck with using CAPS!!!

Again, thanks much for the BOBO/FETSCH reference!!! (Now, I don't need to buy that rubber cement!!!
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Nov 17, 2014 07:51PM)
I'm just savoring this moment right now. I'm looking at these posts from some of the Café's most experienced and knowledgeable members, and there is respect, sharing, and just innocent, frivolous fun. Thank you. Just plain thank you.
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Nov 17, 2014 09:53PM)
[quote]On Nov 17, 2014, Wizard of Oz wrote:
I'm just savoring this moment right now. I'm looking at these posts from some of the Café's most experienced and knowledgeable members, and there is respect, sharing, and just innocent, frivolous fun. Thank you. Just plain thank you. [/quote]

Addendum to this post. I had made it after reading several other very negative threads in other areas of the Café. Feeling quite defeated, I came here and read these uplifting contributions...from some of my favorite Café members, posting informative introspections and recollections...all good. All welcomed. And all adding to the grand pieces of the grand pie...whatever that is. And I just, well...I just felt all gushy inside.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Nov 17, 2014 09:58PM)
Hi Wiz!

OOPS! I didn't thank you for your comment above on November 11! So! >>>Thank you!<<< (Amen!)

It definitely has been a great life! --Far greater than I have deserved!

I've tried to write "the" book, in the same way, I talk. I've " thrown in" a lot of stories, and anecdotes, to add a little spice to the stew!

BTW! I had to go buy a new hat after your post! (Ego!!!)

Yes! --Re your comments just above: I'm especially happy that you noted the "respect, sharing and just innocent, frivolous fun"! Since I "joined this show", I've met and become friends with some some exceptonally talented magicians. We have a mutual respect for each other. --and, we see the humor in life!

You are most welcome, and WE thank YOU for your understanding and appreciation!

Re: "that man behind the curtain"...
When I was about 12, I met Meinhardt Raabe. He had been the Coroner of the Munchkins. He got that speaking part because he was born in Wisonsin, and had a good, clear speaking voice. Most of the other little people were foreign born, and had accents! I spent a delightful afternoon with him in Florida, about 20 years ago. It was a wonderful "jackpot" session.
Message: Posted by: Bill Thompson (Nov 19, 2014 11:06AM)
Buddha Papers are one of my favorite utilities... you can perform either transpositions or transformations with them.

Look at Dean Dill's idea of using them with a nickels to dimes gimmick for a nice transposition. You can use either method with this idea, I prefer method one... If you actually make the flip part of the folding it is undetectible..

Bill Abbot markets a routine using the papers called the Boyd Mystery. He uses method two and he uses a joke during the presentation to hide it. I use this routine often (one of my favorites) and I have presented it using both methods, but the patter is truely structured to take advantage of method two and I believe it plays better if you do it the way it was intended.

So, I would say both methods have their uses and places, depending upon the effect and what you are trying to accomplish.

I think If I were pitching them though, I would probably stick to method one.
Message: Posted by: Jeff Haas (Nov 19, 2014 12:33PM)
Years ago, Sammy Smith included a charming version of this trick in an order. His mentor, Fetaque Sanders, had shown him his version. It was a Christmas-themed presentation, and used wrapping paper to make the bundle. I'd have to dig it out, but I remember that a penny turned into a dime, and that you gave the dime to the kid.

I just looked on Sammy's website, I don't think he has this available anymore.
Message: Posted by: Jeff Haas (Nov 19, 2014 04:00PM)
Harry, thanks for the info on the Kindle version. I've already paid my $2.99 and downloaded it to my tablet. After a few pages I can tell it's going to be a great little book!

I love this modern world.
Message: Posted by: MagiCol (Nov 24, 2014 02:39AM)
When it comes to selling the Buddha Papers to kids, what is, or has been, your selling approach?

A. it's done as a con, as something the kid/adult buys and then can't figure out how to work it

B. It is sold with instructions how to work it.
Message: Posted by: MagiCol (Nov 24, 2014 03:15AM)
Mark Lewis says "The most famous buddha papers pitchman was Mickey McDougall otherwise known as the Card Detective."
Maybe some of you are aware of Mickey?
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Nov 24, 2014 04:25AM)
G'day Magicol!

I never met him, but I do remember reading about him when I was a teenager! He was well known as a "card guy", but, I never heard of his "prowess" with "the papers"!

Street pitchmen were "ubiquitous" in the Great Depression of the '30s. A lot of professional performers turned to pitching. --Hey! hamburgers were a nickel!

Al Flosso, literally got his start as a shill (more recent term: "stick")for a pitchman. The late Earl "PRESTO" Johnson pitched the Coin-Go.

The big illusion shows (Blackstone, Thurston,et al) pitched a "magic package" during intermission! It was called "inside money", and it "moved" the show down the road! Just a few years ago, Stan Kramien pitched "the mouse". Asked if it was worth it, He pointed to his bolo tie. (He wore a solid gold "mouse" bolo tie. It had diamonds for eyes!)

Every sideshow act ("working act, or feature freak) pitched something. It augmented their salary. The late Charlie Roark, vent and punch worker (I met him in the Ringling Side Show in '46) had a water pail full of quarters! He pitched "Ventrilos", the Swiss bird warbler.

There was even a pitchman's column in "Billboard".

I'm sure that more than one magician pitched Buddah Papers! --Like those sponge balls, easy and cheap to make up.

Frances Ireland Marshall told me of Jack Hurlbut. During the depression, he LIVED in his panel truck (a van nowadays). He would buy a sponge rubber mattress, which,of course, he slept on. He would park under a street light at night,and with a sharp pair of manicure scissors, he would "whittle" his mattress into sponge balls. He would sell the balls to Laurie Ireland (predecessor to Magic Inc.)Part of the income was living expenses, and part was put "aside" to buy a new mattress when the old one, due to the "whittling", became too small. He made it through the "Great Depression"!

Hey! The "Professor" (DAI VERNON) --a "fairly well known cardician", cut silhouettes for 25 cents!
Message: Posted by: Bill Thompson (Nov 24, 2014 09:58AM)
[quote]On Nov 24, 2014, MagiCol wrote:
When it comes to selling the Buddha Papers to kids, what is, or has been, your selling approach?

A. it's done as a con, as something the kid/adult buys and then can't figure out how to work it

B. It is sold with instructions how to work it. [/quote]

I'm no pitchman and I have never sold buddha papers, but I would imagine that you would have a routine worked up with the papers that will draw in the buyer without giving away the secret and the papers come with a small printed card with a basic handling and perhaps a short routine, kind of like the Royal papers do.

I would be more interested in knowing the pitchman's routine with the papers.
Message: Posted by: ROBERT BLAKE (Nov 24, 2014 04:39PM)
Where can I find a decent routine with the buddah papers?
how would you pitch the paper to the public?
Message: Posted by: MagiCol (Nov 24, 2014 11:13PM)
Dick, it's great you are sharing 'the old days".
This topic has got us readers involved!

A short thread re the Papers is at
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=429606&forum=192

and has a few ideas/sources for pitching by the look of it.
Message: Posted by: MagiCol (Nov 24, 2014 11:48PM)
For the reader who isn't familiar with the Buddha Papers, the following YouTube video seems to be what spectators see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvJOFGS7Bt8

I watched a Penquin video and it seemed to miss the paper being turned over. Probably to entice the prospective buyers without revealing
the actual moves.

Somebody like to comment on that? I don't want to encourage off-topic comments, but who knows the ignorance [I say that kindly] of readers re the Buddha Papers?
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Nov 25, 2014 11:03AM)
[quote]On Nov 25, 2014, MagiCol wrote:
Dick, it's great you are sharing 'the old days".
This topic has got us readers involved!

A short thread re the Papers is at
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=429606&forum=192

and has a few ideas/sources for pitching by the look of it. [/quote]

I had not seen that earlier thread (I just =joined this show" in December '12)

Thanks for the referral! David Tower, whose pamphlet I referred to at the "top" of this thread, posted a comment on "your" thread, so he must still be "around". He had some very cute ideas in that booklet. If the papers appeal to you, you can't really go wrong, by buying his "monogtraph!
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Nov 25, 2014 11:37AM)
Hi Magicol!

I wonder what happened to "DICE"!!! (It's his "fault" that this thresd got started!

I've enjoyed reminiscing! I've only had time to watch one of those on the you tube. I'll come back with a comment when I've seen them all.

Regarding pitching this "little gem"... IMO, it's not as strong for a large tip as the Svengali or the Mouse. --Mainly, because it's hard for a large group to see the prop on a table top. But, over the counter in a magic shop (sadly, there are less and less shops!)it's a "winner".

It's 68 years since I met Buzz Worth on that carnie lot,but, I can still vividly remember walking down the midway after closing time, with him, and watching him make the nut for his meals every night! It was a good lesson for me as a 16 year old!

Some day on another thread, I'll talk about the late Roy Kissell and his family. Roy's dad had a real hustle! He not only got his Svengali stock for free, but, he even got the instructions printed for free! HIs only nut was the "privilege"!
Message: Posted by: Bill Thompson (Nov 26, 2014 11:01AM)
Ok... I'm going to tip my mitt...

Folding and flipping all the papers, (the way the instructions tell you too!). When you display the buddha papers using the folding and flipping method, the papers all have the fold side down. You encorporate the flip into the fold so the paper is flipped as you unfold and flipped back as you fold it. There is a discrepency in the display of the gimmicked packet though. Either you don't flip it when folding it or you don't flip it when you open it up. You have to find a way to take the heat off of this moment. I doubt that many laymen would catch it. I have fooled people who know about the papers with this method, simply because they have never seen it done this way before. I had a magician friend of mine go, "hey! how did you do that? I never saw you flip the paper!"

With the other method you only flip the gimmick packet (this seems to be the way everyone learns it)... The papers are stored and folded flap side up on all the papers. When you fold there is no flipping of any packet. You do have to flip the gimmick, so you have to find a way of doing this without being detected... For example (using the supplied routine with the Royal Papers): you open all the papers and ask to borrow a dollar, you fold the dollar and place it into the papers and fold them up stopping before the last paper, pick up the gimmick packet and point to the spectator with it and ask them if seeing a magic trick is worth a quarter, when thier eyes meet yours to answer, immediately flip the paper and place it back in the last paper and continue with the trick.

Why is the first method not taught or done more? I can't say for sure but I think it is because the first method is discarded as not being natural by magicians. This would be true if you fold up the paper and /then/ flip it instead of flipping as you fold. It could be to throw off those who have read the instructions and are aware of the folding and flipping method. Then again, perhaps no one bothers to read the instructions and just do it the way the demonstrator has taught them.

Finally, you can throw off the wise guys by making your own papers with more ordinary paper... use packing paper, resume paper, and newspaper to make a set of papers... take out the last paper so you only do three folds instead of four. Think of a backstory in your mind of why you are wrapping something in the papers... perhaps it's for storage, to protect a precious photo, or even for use as a temorary wallet. You don't have tell the spectator why, but if you know why then you will convey that with your actions.

Hope this helps.
Message: Posted by: charliemartin (Dec 1, 2014 04:40PM)
Brother Shadow had some work on this trick. I thought about using comic book pages.
Message: Posted by: Bill Thompson (Dec 2, 2014 08:17AM)
[quote]On Dec 1, 2014, charliemartin wrote:
Brother Shadow had some work on this trick. I thought about using comic book pages. [/quote]

I've always wanted Brother Shadow's book on the papers... Do you know where I can find a copy?
Message: Posted by: Bill Thompson (Dec 2, 2014 08:48AM)
Here is the title of Carl Herron a.k.a. Brother Shadow's book on the papers: The Papers of Gautama Siddhartha.

There were Four routines in the book:
1. The Fountain of Youth
2. The Elf's Gift (for kids)
3. The Man Who Could See Your Soul
4. A Mystery Solved

The book also included detailed instruction on the construction of the papers.

I don't have this book. I would love to have it in some format... Perferable the original but PDF would be ok... I am especially intrested in the routines. If any one can help me I would be forever greatful.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Dec 2, 2014 11:43AM)
That sounds most interesting, misterbill!

This is becoming an intriguing thread!
Message: Posted by: ROBERT BLAKE (Dec 2, 2014 01:00PM)
Http://www.dragonskull.co.uk/shadowbook3.htm
Message: Posted by: Bill Thompson (Dec 2, 2014 01:45PM)
[quote]On Dec 2, 2014, ROBERT BLAKE wrote:
Http://www.dragonskull.co.uk/shadowbook3.htm [/quote]

Ah you ran up the same blind alley I have.
If you look at this page: http://www.dragonskull.co.uk/books.htm
you will see that his books are now collectable but no longer available, the listing is a reference guide in case you have a chance to buy second hand copies...
Message: Posted by: Bill Thompson (Dec 2, 2014 01:51PM)
[quote]On Dec 2, 2014, Dick Oslund wrote:
That sounds most interesting, misterbill!

This is becoming an intriguing thread! [/quote]

I'm no expert, but perhaps you can confirm a theory of mine. The papers in and of themselves are merely a utility device. Learing the mechanics of how they work and the subtleties involved with the display of the device is not enough to make it appear to be more than a puzzle, to appear magical it requires a proper routine and presentation.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Dec 2, 2014 04:05PM)
You understand!

The little subtleties in the handling and display, are, of course, a factor, (here comes the "but"!) but, the performer and his presentation, are always much more important than the prop!

A change bag could accomplish the same effect, but the papers are so innocent!
Message: Posted by: ROBERT BLAKE (Dec 2, 2014 04:49PM)
[quote]On Dec 2, 2014, misterbill wrote:
[quote]On Dec 2, 2014, ROBERT BLAKE wrote:
Http://www.dragonskull.co.uk/shadowbook3.htm [/quote]

Ah you ran up the same blind alley I have.
If you look at this page: http://www.dragonskull.co.uk/books.htm
you will see that his books are now collectable but no longer available, the listing is a reference guide in case you have a chance to buy second hand copies... [/quote]

yes I realised it too. it is a pitty.
Message: Posted by: Quentin (Dec 3, 2014 02:45PM)
I've been lucky enough to see Brother Shadow performing a couple of his 'Buddha Papers' routines.
Message: Posted by: Bill Thompson (Dec 5, 2014 02:24PM)
[quote]On Dec 2, 2014, Dick Oslund wrote:
You understand!

The little subtleties in the handling and display, are, of course, a factor, (here comes the "but"!) but, the performer and his presentation, are always much more important than the prop!

A change bag could accomplish the same effect, but the papers are so innocent! [/quote]

Thanks, Mr. Oslund, you are a great teacher. I wish I could just sit down with you for few minutes someday. :)

[quote]On Dec 3, 2014, Quentin wrote:
I've been lucky enough to see Brother Shadow performing a couple of his 'Buddha Papers' routines. [/quote]

You /know/ I am jealous now! I want that booklet just so I can know what the plots to those routines are, they sound so intriguing!
Message: Posted by: silvercup (Dec 6, 2014 10:09AM)
[quote]
You /know/ I am jealous now! I want that booklet just so I can know what the plots to those routines are, they sound so intriguing! [/quote]

Not as good as the one you're going to discover on your own!
Message: Posted by: Bill Thompson (Feb 12, 2015 10:24PM)
I was able to purchase a copy of this book. Thanks to all who helped.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Feb 13, 2015 06:53AM)
GRRRR! I hate you! (hee hee hee) --THREE "HEES"!)

Now, we MUST meet somehow, somewhere, some day!!!

The "saga" of the the "Budda" (carny pronunciation!) Papers continues.......................................

(Still "with it, and for it, and not yet up against it!)

The itinerant mountebanc
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Feb 14, 2015 08:49AM)
Thanks to this delightful thread, I have made myself a set of Buddha Papers; what a great trick!

Thank you, gentlemen. This really is the most civilised area on the Café.

Tom
Message: Posted by: Brad Jeffers (Feb 23, 2015 03:13PM)
[quote]On Nov 24, 2014, MagiCol wrote:
Mark Lewis says "The most famous buddha papers pitchman was Mickey McDougall otherwise known as the Card Detective."
Maybe some of you are aware of Mickey? [/quote]

MacDougall sold the Budda papers as "Mickey's Marvelous Money Mystery". The instruction sheet which accompanied the papers says "copyright 1926".

As a pitchman, MacDougall is best remembered for his work with the Svengali Deck. It's interesting to note that MacDougall first became interested in magic at the age of ten, when he himself purchased a Svengali Deck from a pitchman working the corner of Fifth and Market Street in downtown Philadelphia.

Long before becoming Mickey MacDougall "The Card Detective", he was Samuel MacDougall "The Svengali Kid" working a string of South American night clubs.

With regards to MacDougall and the Buddha Papers Mystery, here is what Rhadamanthus Jr. (Theo Annemann) wrote in 1941 ...

"And then came the Hindu Paper Mystery. Don't sneer, just read on and get educated. Nothing but the old pitchman's gag - the same old paper folding hoax that you have seen at any carnival or on any street corner, but it was dressed up into a masterpiece. First Mickey demonstrated it from the platform with a few coins. Then papers were passed among the audience, and under the master's instructions, they did it in their own laps and fooled themselves - and don't think that they weren't fooled. Of course they took the papers home to fool their friends, and it did no harm to have Mickey's name printed at the top."
Message: Posted by: KarstenMeyerhoff (Mar 14, 2015 05:01AM)
[quote]On Nov 13, 2014, Harry Murphy wrote:
"The Magic of the Mystery Papers" can be found as an eBook on Amazon for a big $2.99 for Kindle unlimited folks it is free. Thank you Dick for the title and author of this little gem of a booklet.[/quote]

I bought this one - at $2.99 you can't go wrong - and was pleasantly surprised to find some ideas that are very well worth exploring for me! After all, the papers are "just" a device to change one small, flat object for another small, flat object. But the booklet indeed offers some very nice routines and then some advice on how to make your own papers and how to make them last longer. An absolute bargain!
Message: Posted by: silvercup (Mar 14, 2015 12:19PM)
WalMart in store ads make great papers.
Added bonus of pictures and print to sell the deal.
Message: Posted by: Magicray69 (May 26, 2015 12:04PM)
Here, I believe to be the best handling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPodqYLog90
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (May 26, 2015 07:01PM)
[quote]On May 26, 2015, Magicray69 wrote:
Here, I believe to be the best handling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPodqYLog90 [/quote]

Well, friend Magicray59, you are certainly entitled to your OPINION!

I wonder if you read the entire thread!

I still prefer #1, not, #2, which is the handling in the video you provided.

"DE GUSTIBUS NON EST DISPUTANDUM!" (CONCERNING TASTES, WE CANNOT ARGUE.)

Dick Oslund
Sneaky, underhanded, devious, & surreptitious itineratnt mountebank
Message: Posted by: mtpascoe (May 26, 2015 08:56PM)
I looked this up on Google. I know the trick you are talking about now. I learned this from my fifth grade teacher who was a semi pro magician. I wrote this up in a book that my agent is pitching. I can PM you with this trick with the misdirection I use. I pitched this at a magic shop and the misdrection worked. When I taught this to the kids who bought, they always remembered to do the misdirection I taught them.
Message: Posted by: Brad Jeffers (May 28, 2015 04:13AM)
[quote]On May 26, 2015, Dick Oslund wrote:
I still prefer #1, not, #2 [/quote]

Would [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhwFMrHKNgE]THIS[/url] be a good example of your preferred method?

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9-OmOyIVsE]THIS[/url] method seems to use misterbill's idea of incorporating the flip into the fold (or in this case into the unfold).
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (May 28, 2015 09:20PM)
[quote]On May 28, 2015, Brad Jeffers wrote:
[quote]On May 26, 2015, Dick Oslund wrote:
I still prefer #1, not, #2 [/quote]

Would [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhwFMrHKNgE]THIS[/url] be a good example of your preferred method?

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9-OmOyIVsE]THIS[/url] method seems to use misterbill's idea of incorporating the flip into the fold (or in this case into the unfold). [/quote]



Three DEMONSTRATIONS and each one different!

The first one by the adult with the papers in a nice package, was the best of the three. Not quite the way that I learned it back in 1946, but,still, the best of the three demos.

Sorry to say. the young man who first exposed the method and then "explained" (?) how to make up the papers, was the WORST explanation, handling, and "performance" that I have ever seen. He fumbled the handling, did a slopppy job of making the gaffed paper, so that it was obviously gaffed, and didn't turn over each paper. It's necessary to turn over EACH paper as the bundle is opened to put in the penny, and then turned over as each paper is folded. When the bundle is opened. Each paper should be unfolded.

The folding of each paper, and the turnover each time, conditions the mind. (You are "hiding the elephant in a herd of elephants"!!!)

The European guy did not even do a turnover.

I was taught to fold in the sides first, then the wide fold, and in turning over the paper, the "flap" is automatically folded.

EC0NOMY OF MOTION!!!!! The kid fumbled, mumbled and was running without being chased. I am reminded of OKITO, sitting in the front row at a magic club public show. the klutz on stage was fumbling the most simple actions. Okito said: "BUTCHER!!!"

I hope this helps. If you aren't sure, scroll up the first page of this thread, and send the guy a couple of bucks for his pamphlet and sample set of papers.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (May 28, 2015 09:27PM)
I spent fifteen minutes writing a reply and didn't hit the submit button firmly enough. I'll try to come back tomorrow.--sorry!
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (May 29, 2015 10:10AM)
[quote]On May 26, 2015, Dick Oslund wrote:
[quote]On May 26, 2015, Magicray69 wrote:
Here, I believe to be the best handling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPodqYLog90 [/quote]

Well, friend Magicray59, you are certainly entitled to your OPINION!

I wonder if you read the entire thread!

I still prefer #1, not, #2, which is the handling in the video you provided.

"DE GUSTIBUS NON EST DISPUTANDUM!" (CONCERNING TASTES, WE CANNOT ARGUE.)

Dick Oslund
Sneaky, underhanded, devious, & surreptitious itinerant mountebank [/quote]


Hey Ray~! I apologize for that rather curt note. I put my mouth in gear, before my brain was engaged! --when I wondered if you had read the entire thread. That was an uncalled for remark.

Dick
Message: Posted by: docguitarman (Feb 20, 2019 05:35PM)
Is it time to resurrect this thread?

My interest in said effect was resparked since I recently (and finally!) purchased the complete "The Phoenix" from Lybrary. Enjoying it immensely!

But back on topic. Scanning though the index I saw the "Buddha papers" under the "apparatus" heading. The effect that actually uses the buddha papers is "PURSEPOSE" by F.V. Schoneck in Issue 173, page 694 which is a nice "sucker" version of the Buddha papers. The additional props are easy to make too. I think I'll try this out at the next magic fellowship !

Phil
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Feb 21, 2019 10:08AM)
Hi Phil!

Your post yesterday, caught my ancient eyes, as I scrolled through the Café this AM.

The title had grabbed me "5 years ago". I got involved, and, others, too. It grew into a very worthwhile thread, with fine posts.

I think that you will be pleasantly surprised, if you do it at your next fellowship,

Over the past 9 years, I've become a bit discouraged, when I read the posts of those who only buy the "latest and greatest toys".
Message: Posted by: Al Schneider (Feb 21, 2019 11:34AM)
IMHO

It doesn’t matter if you use #1 or #2.

First of all, the whole thing looks like a gimmick setup so you are not really selling magic. You are selling a puzzle.

Then, if you think the audience will track how you flip the paper, they are on to you anyway.

Though, saying it is a packet to save some valuable thing is admirable.

As magic, I would never consider doing this as magic.

However, there is one pitch that would force me to do it every show.

This is from a story that Karrell Fox shared with me one day hanging around the Fox Fun n Magic shop.

Mr. Fox claims he was doing a show for a bunch of high rolling bank guys and pulled out a Buddha papers packet.

A cheap trick for a bunch of rich guys.

In his routine he gets these dollar shaped pieces of white paper and draws a dollar bill.

He scribbles a rough drawing of Washington and puts some ones and zeros in the corners.

Then he does the work.

Now, instead of printing (?) a dollar bill, a thousand dollar bill comes out.

Then he sez, “Oops, I put the decimal point in the wrong place.”

I cannot relate how much of an impact that bit has had on me.

I have listened to Mr. Fox’s ideas many times.

His thoughts have shaped many of the routines I consider my best.

Mr. Fox added, “When you do tricks with money you have their attention.”

The only thing keeping me from doing this is that I might be mugged after the show.

If you really want to do this, find a picture of a thousand dollar bill on the internet and print it.

The result is awesome but I would also print a line on each side of the bill saying, “THIS IS NOT LEGAL TENDER”

Better than that, get a picture of a $10,000 bill. They do exist but are not used for public transfer of money.

All the best.

Al
Message: Posted by: Al Schneider (Feb 21, 2019 04:23PM)
Phil
I reread your post and a desire to restart the thread. I thought some more about it and considered a more in depth analysis of what Buddha Papers is about. On the surface, to me, it is about a simple trick that is more of a puzzle than anything else. My experience with Karrell Fox suggests there is more. Perhaps this is what you are after. The basic concept of the effect can be expanded either emotionally or magically. To whit, I came up with the following.

The performer comes out with a packet of paper. He says he found it in his family’s old farm house in a trunk in the attic. The paper looks old and has a heavy sent of perfume. The paper of three layers is opened to reveal a flattened stiff flower. The performer says it was saved by his great grandmother. Then the performer talks of his great grandfather that studied time travel. Anyway: something along that line. The flattened flower is replaced back into the nest of folded papers. The unit is placed before a spectator and asked to hold it down with a finger. A few magic words are spoken and the spectator is asked to open the papers. On doing so, a picture from days past is found in the innermost paper showing a woman holding a flower. Ostensibly, it is a picture of the flower initially shown.

Doing this is easily within the capabilities of the readers of this forum. Phil; is this in the direction you were thinking?

Al
Message: Posted by: docguitarman (Feb 21, 2019 05:06PM)
Hi Al,

My post was specifically focused on the "Pursepose" effect in The Phoenix. It is intended to catch those laymen (and maybe a few magi too) who know how the effect works. You end clean in the "Pursepose" effect. Since then I have done more research/reading and have seen ways to add patter such as you suggest (to use different items that "reconfigure" themselves in various ways) that will take the heat off the paper and onto the "reconfigured" items. Of course any one who knows the secret won't be fooled in those cases either... unless the papers are augmented with the handling described in "The Phoenix." Putting all the above together (Interesting patter/presentations, transformations -- such as you suggest -- and the extra something that allows you to end clean and leave all to be examined) ought to make it a useful and entertaining effect, IMO.

Regards,
Phil
Message: Posted by: docguitarman (Feb 21, 2019 07:18PM)
As a postscript I should add that the "Pursepose" extra something is also an "ever so sleighty" effect.

Also I reread the "Pursepose" article and I realize my intended use to end clean is in addition to the sucker version described therein.... both effects can be done with the extra apparatus described in the article.
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Mar 11, 2019 07:10PM)
I enjoyed perusing this thread a lot. I have a lot of love for the humble Buddha papers!

I used the Buddha papers for several years in my Ren Faire act. It started as a lazy "throw away" trick towards the beginning of the act, but *** if it ever failed to get a reaction WAY out of proportion to the actual effect. I was just astounded.

This ancient trick that had been relegated to the "el cheapo kids magic kits" was just killing it. Every time. Truly, it's all in the presentation; and ANY trick is a "new trick" if the audience has never seen it before!

Now, I f I had only thought to making/repackaging these with my own brand name and pulling in some extra cash via the side hustle. Live and Learn...
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Mar 11, 2019 11:28PM)
Incidentally, to answer the "question" of the original thread, I would use the principle of the paddle move and have the larger motion of lifting the packet up for closer inspection as a ruse to cover the smaller action of flipping the packet over in my hand.

I say with absolutely no hubris (it's the bloody Buddha papers, after all) that I was never caught in the act.
Message: Posted by: sethb (Mar 12, 2019 06:38PM)
I have pitched the Buddha Papers in the past, along with the Svengali Deck and the Magic Worms. The papers were not as strong a seller as either of the other two items, but that could have just been the fault of a weak pitch and/or weak routine.

I started by using the Royal Magic (Fun, Inc.) papers, which were of good quality and came attractively packaged, but then switched to Robbins E-Z Magic stuff instead. The quality was the same but the price was considerably less.

I used a variation of the #2 method. Right before the turnover, I would take the packet off the table, hold it in the air in a vertical position, and patter for a bit. Then it was a simple matter to replace the packet on the table with the correct side up, and nobody ever caught the move. It was natural, easy and didn't require any fast or fancy moves. SETH
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Mar 13, 2019 01:34PM)
@Sethb, do you pitch at the Jersey Shore somewhere?
I vacation there every couple of years, and I might get back there this year or next...
Message: Posted by: sethb (Mar 13, 2019 04:20PM)
Gaddy --- I used to pitch in Sea Isle City, Cape May, Mays Landing, Woodbine, Somers Point, Linwood, Northfield, Absecon and a few other places in South Jersey. I was a real "40-miler," as the old vaudeville term says.

But I stopped a couple of years ago, due to arthritis in the feet -- it's tough when you're standing up for 6+ hours at a clip! I thank the late Don Driver for helping to get me into the pitch business, and steering me in all the right directions. It was great fun while it lasted, and I also made a few bucks to boot . . . SETH
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Mar 14, 2019 01:24PM)
Oh, how I love Cape May! Such a beautiful place!

Actually, this is the first I heard that Don passed away.

I mean, he was sick for a long time, and while he recovered briefly... I had been off the Magic Café for quite a while, and well, we all knew it was only a matter of time.

I learned a lot from his videos and conversing with him on the Magic Café. He'll be missed, but his legacy lives on.
Message: Posted by: sethb (Mar 15, 2019 01:28PM)
Don was a great guy, a true gentleman, and very generous with his time. He was always willing to share information and make suggestions to solve problems or issues. And as I discovered in more than one instance, you ignored his advice at your own peril!

But I believe his pitch tape is still around and available, so there will always be someone to learn his wonderful Svengali Pitch! And a lot of his posts are still here under the "Step Right Up" section of the Magic Café. SETH
Message: Posted by: ATXTimeLord (Jul 10, 2019 03:35AM)
[quote]On Nov 14, 2014, Kabbalah wrote:
If you want to screw with your magician friends at your next magic meeting, do "Hen" Fetsch's [b]Buddha's Coin[/b] from Bobo's [i]Modern Coin Magic[/i], pp. 252-253.

This effect uses [b]ungimmicked[/b] papers. [/quote]

I've performed this version and love it...
Message: Posted by: docguitarman (Jul 17, 2019 03:22PM)
[quote]On Nov 14, 2014, Kabbalah wrote:
If you want to screw with your magician friends at your next magic meeting, do "Hen" Fetsch's [b]Buddha's Coin[/b] from Bobo's [i]Modern Coin Magic[/i], pp. 252-253.

This effect uses [b]ungimmicked[/b] papers. [/quote]

Just made some ungimmicked papers and am going to spring this at the next magic fellowship. Thanks Kabbalah!

Phil