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Topic: Bill Cosby.....I'm Just Saying.
Message: Posted by: slowkneenuh (Dec 6, 2014 06:47PM)
Firstly, I am not condoning the behavior that led to the current accusations against Cosby. But, it still saddens me that at this stage in his life he will go to his grave with a never to be removed black cloud over his head. All of his accomplishments and good deeds will pale in comparison to the ribald tales now associated with him.

Whatever else he did, he was also a superb entertainer for hundreds of millions of viewers and listeners, a generous benefactor and a mentor to many aspiring entertainers. I suspect his public role led to many young folks becoming responsible parents.

Also, we are measuring a man's behavior from many decades ago against our mores of today. Part of my male teenage development cycle was the judicious use of alcohol to increase your odds of having your way with girls, and girls were taught by their mothers to watch out for such shenanigans. (I never did get that one right, I would always get drunk first). Actors and rock stars have built reputations on "conquests" whatever their methods. Why is he being singled out? Is it his "method" or his name? The end crime is the same for anyone whatever approach they use.

Maybe we should have a "get out of jail free pass" for this kind of a situation. The rules would be that for every ten million people you entertained and positively influenced you were forgiven a "pass" on one unacceptable act or behavior if it did no physical harm to that person (adding mental makes it tough to judge).
Message: Posted by: michaelmystic2003 (Dec 6, 2014 06:54PM)
If the allegations are true, then yes, it is worth him dying with a 'black cloud' over his head. If they are true, he is a disgusting excuse for a human being and dismissing his actions just because he entertained people would be the real tragedy.

"Get out of jail free?" A serial rapist is a serial rapist. If he committed acts of sexual violence against women, that is 100000000000000000% unforgivable.

Yes, this is enough to cloud over his career. Yes yes yes yes yes.

This post enrages me.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Dec 6, 2014 06:57PM)
Wow. I hardly know how to respond. Drugging 18 yo's so older men can have sex with them was just a more of the 70's?
Message: Posted by: balducci (Dec 6, 2014 07:09PM)
[quote]On Dec 6, 2014, slowkneenuh wrote:

Whatever else he did, he was also a superb entertainer for hundreds of millions of viewers and listeners, a generous benefactor and a mentor to many aspiring entertainers. I suspect his public role led to many young folks becoming responsible parents.
[/quote]
And he was HANDSOMELY rewarded for it. It's not like he did it for free, out of the goodness of his heart.

[quote]On Dec 6, 2014, slowkneenuh wrote:

Maybe we should have a "get out of jail free pass" for this kind of a situation. The rules would be that for every ten million people you entertained and positively influenced you were forgiven a "pass" on one unacceptable act or behavior if it did no physical harm to that person (adding mental makes it tough to judge). [/quote]
I'm guessing at 220 million people he may well have already hit his free pass limit.

"22 Bill Cosby Accusers" (and still counting):

http://www.thewrap.com/19-bill-cosby-accusers-complete-breakdown-of-the-allegations-so-far/
Message: Posted by: Bob1Dog (Dec 6, 2014 07:32PM)
[quote]On Dec 6, 2014, Michaelmystic2003 wrote:

This post enrages me. [/quote]

Lots and lots of the of posts in this forum enrage [b][i]me,[/b][/i] and yours is one of them. That's why I don't come here much anymore. Now get over it and get on with your life. I'm sick of the plethora of comments in here from y'all who chomp at your collective bits to push your agendas in this forum who don't give a *** about what the other folks think or believe. Allegations are allegations and facts are facts. Would that we might wait for the facts to correct the allegations. Not in this forum. Allegations, armchair lawyers and spin come first and facts second.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Dec 6, 2014 07:58PM)
A brilliant comedian.
As a man, God and the jury will have to decide.
Message: Posted by: acesover (Dec 6, 2014 08:11PM)
To answer your Question. Why is he being singled out? The single most important phrase in Sonnet 94 explains.

"For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds; Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds,"
Shakespeare
Message: Posted by: magicalaurie (Dec 6, 2014 08:29PM)
[quote]On Dec 6, 2014, Michaelmystic2003 wrote:
If he committed acts of sexual violence against women, that is 100000000000000000% unforgivable.
[/quote]

Bullsh!t
Message: Posted by: landmark (Dec 6, 2014 08:46PM)
Expand?
Message: Posted by: acesover (Dec 6, 2014 09:02PM)
[quote]On Dec 6, 2014, magicalaurie wrote:
[quote]On Dec 6, 2014, Michaelmystic2003 wrote:
If he committed acts of sexual violence against women, that is 100000000000000000% unforgivable.
[/quote]

Bullsh!t [/quote]

Is that "magicalaurie" talking? :)
Message: Posted by: Josh the Superfluous (Dec 6, 2014 09:32PM)
Violent acts against women are forgivable???? I'm so confused.
Message: Posted by: balducci (Dec 6, 2014 09:40PM)
[quote]On Dec 6, 2014, landmark wrote:

Expand? [/quote]
"You will refuse to forgive 100000000000000000%."

"That's impossible. No one can refuse to forgive more than 100%. By definition, that is the most anyone can refuse to forgive."
Message: Posted by: acesover (Dec 6, 2014 10:10PM)
[quote]On Dec 6, 2014, balducci wrote:
[quote]On Dec 6, 2014, landmark wrote:

Expand? [/quote]
"You will refuse to forgive 100000000000000000%."

"That's impossible. No one can refuse to forgive more than 100%. By definition, that is the most anyone can refuse to forgive." [/quote]

I actually see it quite impossible to forgive someone less than 100% also. Either you forgive them or you don't.

It is like being pregnant...either you are or you are not. You are not 50% pregnant. You are forgiven or you are not. You forgive or you don't.
Message: Posted by: magicalaurie (Dec 6, 2014 10:39PM)
Sometimes I feel like you guys just don't listen to me.

It's a simple truth and if people started to acknowledge that human beings are highly fallible (if you'd like to consider it as such- we could just acknowledge that human beings don't know it all, afterall, and learn as they go, just like everyone else on the planet) and all is forgivable, I believe we'd be living a much more peaceful existence, despite all the proclamations to the contrary. The displays of ego and arrogance and hypocrisy performed by those who proclaim another is unforgivable/unworthy are the very roots of the perpetuation of violence in our society, I suggest. When you get down to it, it is really quite simple. The guy can be forgiven. Some factions of the human population, for some reason seem to think it demonstrates a sort of intellectual superiority by complicating, thus attempting to obscure the truth with Bullsh!t. Clear? Case in point. Bullsh!t summed it up succinctly and you all pressured for complexity... next you'll say I confused you. You confuse yourselves, I say.
Message: Posted by: Bob1Dog (Dec 6, 2014 11:00PM)
^ :applause:
Message: Posted by: magicalaurie (Dec 6, 2014 11:06PM)
Thankyou, Bob. Just for the sake of clarity and consistency, I need to edit slightly and so adjust this line:

Some factions of the human population, for some reason, seem to think they demonstrate a sort of intellectual superiority by complicating, and thus attempt to obscure the truth with Bullsh!t.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Dec 6, 2014 11:19PM)
Not going to judge the guy. It does make me feel less comfortable enjoying what I recall of his work.
Message: Posted by: critter (Dec 6, 2014 11:35PM)
Whether Cosby's guilty or not the original post here is very disturbing to me. In my state you cannot legally consent to sex if under the influence and I agree with that law.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Dec 6, 2014 11:58PM)
Anyone else up for comment on the ten million laughs earns a legal exception?
Message: Posted by: Bob1Dog (Dec 7, 2014 12:00AM)
[quote]On Dec 7, 2014, magicalaurie wrote:
Thankyou, Bob. Just for the sake of clarity and consistency, I need to edit slightly and so adjust this line:

Some factions of the human population, for some reason, seem to think they demonstrate a sort of intellectual superiority by complicating, and thus attempt to obscure the truth with Bullsh!t. [/quote]

You're welcome Laurie; and thank [i][b]you[/i][/b] for your astute perspective here. I couldn't agree with you more.
Message: Posted by: Bob1Dog (Dec 7, 2014 01:48AM)
[quote]On Dec 7, 2014, critter wrote:
In my state you cannot legally consent to sex if under the influence and I agree with that law. [/quote]
Yikes! I wonder how many illegal children there are in the state of Washington :wow:
Message: Posted by: landmark (Dec 7, 2014 07:17AM)
[quote]On Dec 6, 2014, Josh the Superfluous wrote:
I'm so confused. [/quote]
And here I thought you were Mike Doogan.
Message: Posted by: R.S. (Dec 7, 2014 08:15AM)
[quote]On Dec 6, 2014, slowkneenuh wrote:
Also, we are measuring a man's behavior from many decades ago against our mores of today. Part of my male teenage development cycle was the judicious use of alcohol to increase your odds of having your way with girls, and girls were taught by their mothers to watch out for such shenanigans. (I never did get that one right, I would always get drunk first). Actors and rock stars have built reputations on "conquests" whatever their methods. Why is he being singled out? Is it his "method" or his name? The end crime is the same for anyone whatever approach they use.
[/quote]

Would you excuse Mr. Cosby if he drugged and had sex with your own daughter without her consent?

He is being "singled out" because, IF THE ALLEGATIONS ARE TRUE, he has committed serious crimes.

PS - I'm curious to know which actors or rock stars built their reputations on non-consensual sex?

Ron
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Dec 7, 2014 08:34AM)
Lots of this makes me wonder.

But Laurie hit the nail on the head.

And the fact is we have accusations. Very old accusations. Lets at least let it play out to see what does and does not even need forgiving.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Dec 7, 2014 10:15AM)
[quote]On Dec 6, 2014, Michaelmystic2003 wrote:
If the allegations are true, then yes, it is worth him dying with a 'black cloud' over his head. If they are true, he is a disgusting excuse for a human being and dismissing his actions just because he entertained people would be the real tragedy.

"Get out of jail free?" A serial rapist is a serial rapist. If he committed acts of sexual violence against women, that is 100000000000000000% unforgivable.

Yes, this is enough to cloud over his career. Yes yes yes yes yes.

This post enrages me. [/quote]

Me too.
Message: Posted by: acesover (Dec 7, 2014 10:56AM)
Just trying to sort this out here. What are some of you saying?

Is sit OK if he did these things because it was a long time ago?

or

Is it OK because he is Bill Cosby?

or

Is it that we are not sure because we do not know the facts? This last statement seems like the only logical one.

If he is guilty of these things he deserves what he gets. If he is innocent it is a shame because there will always be a cloud because of the allegations. However with his wealth I do not feel we should feel that badly for him.

The only thought that comes to mind is the murder of his son. This is reaching...but could there be any connection..
Message: Posted by: balducci (Dec 7, 2014 11:17AM)
[quote]On Dec 7, 2014, acesover wrote:

The only thought that comes to mind is the murder of his son. This is reaching...but could there be any connection.. [/quote]
Given the times and dates involved, I don't see how it could.

Also, the killer of his son said he thought he was robbing a drug dealer.
Message: Posted by: magicalaurie (Dec 7, 2014 11:23AM)
I think aces was asking whether some feel empathetic toward Bill because his son was killed, balducci.

Forgiveness is available, that simple.

----------------------------------------

Here's Marshall:

[youtube]-dpk5Z7GIFs[/youtube]
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Dec 7, 2014 11:56AM)
Do you believe forgiveness is available if there is no contrition?
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Dec 7, 2014 12:00PM)
[quote]On Dec 6, 2014, magicalaurie wrote:
[quote]On Dec 6, 2014, Michaelmystic2003 wrote:
If he committed acts of sexual violence against women, that is 100000000000000000% unforgivable.
[/quote]

Bullsh!t [/quote]

Are you suggesting that drugging and having non-consensual sex with younger women is OK if you go out and do good things publicly?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Dec 7, 2014 12:04PM)
No she is not. Why not read what was written and not read into what is written?
Message: Posted by: landmark (Dec 7, 2014 12:09PM)
[quote]
Forgiveness is available, that simple. [/quote]
Disagree.
If that were true, there would be no need for Jesus.
There are some acts for which one human being cannot forgive another.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Dec 7, 2014 12:34PM)
No. There are some acts for which you personally can not forgive another. Not all human beings.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Dec 7, 2014 01:10PM)
[quote]On Dec 7, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
No she is not. Why not read what was written and not read into what is written? [/quote]

I'm still confused. Why is it "********" to say that you couldn't forgive Bill Cosby if these charges turn out to be true?
Because, as far as I can see, that was her response to the post that Cosby would be an improbable percentage unforgivable if these charges are true.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Dec 7, 2014 01:12PM)
[quote]On Dec 6, 2014, magicalaurie wrote:
Sometimes I feel like you guys just don't listen to me.
[/quote]

Sometimes I feel like you just don't explain yourself very well!


[quote]
It's a simple truth and if people started to acknowledge that human beings are highly fallible (if you'd like to consider it as such- we could just acknowledge that human beings don't know it all, afterall, and learn as they go, just like everyone else on the planet) and all is forgivable, I believe we'd be living a much more peaceful existence, despite all the proclamations to the contrary. The displays of ego and arrogance and hypocrisy performed by those who proclaim another is unforgivable/unworthy are the very roots of the perpetuation of violence in our society, I suggest. When you get down to it, it is really quite simple. The guy can be forgiven. Some factions of the human population, for some reason seem to think it demonstrates a sort of intellectual superiority by complicating, thus attempting to obscure the truth with Bullsh!t. Clear? Case in point. Bullsh!t summed it up succinctly and you all pressured for complexity... next you'll say I confused you. You confuse yourselves, I say. [/quote]

No matter how "fallible" human beings are, multiple counts of drugged rape is not something I can say; "Oh well, he did something terrible but who am I to judge him?"
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Dec 7, 2014 01:13PM)
[quote]On Dec 6, 2014, magicalaurie wrote:
Sometimes I feel like you guys just don't listen to me.

........you are probably correct.

It's a simple truth and if people started to acknowledge that human beings are highly fallible (if you'd like to consider it as such- we could just acknowledge that human beings don't know it all, afterall, and learn as they go, just like everyone else on the planet) and all is forgivable, I believe we'd be living a much more peaceful existence, despite all the proclamations to the contrary.

....yes, that's what jails are for. To allow society itself to forgive.

The displays of ego and arrogance and hypocrisy performed by those who proclaim another is unforgivable/unworthy are the very roots of the perpetuation of violence in our society, I suggest.

.....Bullshit. What does that even mean? ...'the very roots of...?

When you get down to it, it is really quite simple. The guy can be forgiven. Some factions of the human population, for some reason seem to think it demonstrates a sort of intellectual superiority by complicating, thus attempting to obscure the truth with Bullsh!t.

......again, what does this even mean?


From the evidence so far, he was a serial predatory rapist.

If you cannot condemn him for allegations, there is no need for forgiveness from allegations.

However, if this all proves to be true (and with 22-and-counting who's to doubt?) he actually is a serial predatory rapist. He didn't go the regular socially acceptable male route of Booze, Schmooze & Cooze, he just drugged and raped. What's to forgive here? Much to condemn, little to forgive. Was he so important, so pressed for time he couldn't waste Schmooze Time?

It's not a question of US forgiving him on a personal level, that is up to the victims only. WE can only let him off the hook, in our own minds. Sorry, not me. IF, that is, proof is forthcoming. Someone with so little regard for the damaging of others' lives for the sake of a little Kootchy Time doesn't get him off the hook in my book. Ask his victims how much your forgiveness of him helps their lives. It only helps yours, and THAT's an ego stroke in its own right. He doesn't get off the hook.

And if it is all smoke and fake reports, IF he is indeed innocent, we are left with a man of great accomplishments tarnished by false accusations. I'd rather have this than the other. The other is evil.

BTW...weren't some of his accusers underage when they were (supposedly) drugged and raped?

Once again, we must separate the good men do from the evil they do. Both stand on their own, both have their own burdens. Forgiveness is not germane here.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Dec 7, 2014 02:19PM)
[quote]On Dec 7, 2014, magicalaurie wrote:
...Forgiveness is available, that simple.
[/quote]

Forgiveness from whom Laurie? What does what you mean by forgiveness mean to anyone at home watching and wondering?
Please fill in some of the deletions and lost performatives in your assertions.
Message: Posted by: Poof-Daddy (Dec 7, 2014 05:12PM)
[quote]On Dec 7, 2014, Tom Jorgenson wrote:

BTW...weren't some of his accusers underage when they were (supposedly) drugged and raped?
[/quote]

The most recent victim to come forward (that I heard about this week on the radio) was 15 at the time and he allegedly took her to the Playboy Mansion (to a party) and (**details skipped here**). Because she was underage, and because it happened in CA, They said this one may actually see a courtroom due to no statute of limitations on sex with minors under Ca law.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Dec 7, 2014 07:25PM)
The big boys who own show business, they authorise the contracts and they like to have the stars in their pocket and so they tend to give the contracts to people they have something on. Thus one finds stars tend to have dark side. Politics is show business for ugly people and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_LQlWh8AT0
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Dec 7, 2014 08:08PM)
[quote]On Dec 7, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
No she is not. Why not read what was written and not read into what is written? [/quote]

Disagree. That is exactly what she is saying. All of us "read into" what is written. Else, the written language would be largely useless, but for some scientific and proprietary language to a specific purpose...
Message: Posted by: tommy (Dec 7, 2014 08:59PM)
It does not what I said. It only matters what I meant and I will tell what I meant and not you! So I heard a judge once say.