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Topic: The PERFECT Stack!
Message: Posted by: MemDeck329 (Feb 22, 2015 09:42AM)
The PERFECT Stack!

Well, you may not contribute or comment on this thread,
but at least, I have your attention, right?

Everyone has distinct wishes and desires. For me, I require
two things:

1. I like, and am proficient in Faro Shuffles. I desire a stack
that can be attained by one or more Faros from NDO order.
Or, even from a slightly culled order.

2. I like to be able to spread the cards out on the table for
more than a millisecond. Ideally, it should “look” like a
randomly shuffled deck.

“Built in effects”? Yeah, those are cool but I can live without
them. Every stack has some interesting features.

Si Stebbins, etc., are GREAT until you spread the cards out on
the table. Drat! I LOVE Si Stebbins!

You can faro into pairs, four of a kind, and even “Out of this
World set-ups…. but….. Even so, folks like Darwin Ortiz and
Gene Anderson get accolades from these setups.

Aronson, etc., are GREAT except you have to set-up 52 cards
in the correct order, one at a time. Drat!

“Formulas” and “Rules” can be daunting under fire. You know
what I mean. We have all died a painful-death at one time or
another, right? If you are young you can have a brain-fart!
If you are old (like me), you can have a senior-moment. You
know what I’m talking about.

What are your requirements?
Message: Posted by: Waterloophai (Feb 22, 2015 10:47AM)
"THE" perfect stack does not excist.
I have my perfect stack. But it will be surely not your perfect stack.
And your perfect stack will be surely not my perfect stack.
It all depends on what you want to do with your MD.
Message: Posted by: MemDeck329 (Feb 22, 2015 03:49PM)
Exactly right!
Message: Posted by: J-L Sparrow (Feb 23, 2015 10:02AM)
[quote]On Feb 22, 2015, MemDeck329 wrote:
Everyone has distinct wishes and desires. For me, I require
two things:

1. I like, and am proficient in Faro Shuffles. I desire a stack
that can be attained by one or more Faros from NDO order.
Or, even from a slightly culled order.

2. I like to be able to spread the cards out on the table for
more than a millisecond. Ideally, it should “look” like a
randomly shuffled deck.

Aronson, etc., are GREAT except you have to set-up 52 cards
in the correct order, one at a time. Drat!

“Formulas” and “Rules” can be daunting under fire.[/quote]

Sounds to me like you'd enjoy Juan Tamariz's [b]Mnemonica[/b] stack, as it fits all of your requirements nicely. You can get into the proper order with (I think) a full faro and a partial faro (so you won't have to remember any formulas or rules under fire). And since you can get into Mnemonica order from new deck order, you don't necessarily need to set up 52 cards in the correct order, one at a time. (Though you [i]would[/i] have to first set it up in new deck order, if it isn't already.)

Whichever stack you choose, make sure you memorize it thoroughly. That is, learn which card is at which number, which number has which card, and the preceding and following cards of each individual card.

I hope this helps!
Message: Posted by: MemDeck329 (Feb 24, 2015 06:13AM)
Thanks guys! I have used the Aronson Stack since 2009. I was just curious
what YOU think is the Perfect Stack (for you).

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=580523&forum=205

I've looked at Tamariz and Richardson and other systems. From what I have
seen, except for Ortiz's "Secret", the shuffling into Tamariz or Aronson
(Richardson) leave too many possibilities for something to go wrong.

So, I've had to compromise. If I want to faro shuffle into a stack, I use
Si Stebbins. If I want to use a stack that doesn't look like a stack, I
use Aronson. I wish I could have it both ways, but so far, no luck.
Message: Posted by: J-L Sparrow (Feb 24, 2015 10:13AM)
[quote]On Feb 24, 2015, MemDeck329 wrote:
I've looked at Tamariz and Richardson and other systems. From what I have
seen, except for Ortiz's "Secret", the shuffling into Tamariz or Aronson
(Richardson) leave too many possibilities for something to go wrong.[/quote]

In fairness to Juan Tamariz's [b]Mnemonica[/b] stack, it can be set up (from new deck order) both by using faros, and by not using faros. It's your choice which you want to use. Personally, even though I've rarely ever executed a perfect faro, I'm able to get a deck from new deck order to [i]Mnemonica[/i] order pretty quickly without faros, thanks to the fact that Juan Tamariz explains how to do so in his [b]Mnemonica[/b] book.

(The [i]Mnemonica[/i] stack is not the stack I normally use. The stack I normally use is Richard Osterlind's MBCS, and the reason why I'll leave for another post.)

To be honest, I think you'll be in a good position no matter which random-looking stack you choose to use, but from what I understand, Juan Tamariz's [i]Mnemonica[/i] stack really plays well with faro shuffles.
Message: Posted by: doriancaudal (Feb 28, 2015 05:07AM)
My perfect stack, the one I always use is ISIS, by Isidore Buc. A really good mix taking the advantages of Aronson, Tamariz, Rix, Si Stebbins). It's not perfect for english speaking people, but for me, as a french, THIS is the stack to go for.
Message: Posted by: Brad Jeffers (Mar 3, 2015 02:00AM)
MemDeck329,

From your criteria, I believe the perfect stack for you may be the one I use. I call it The Fifth Pharaoh.

From new deck order do five out faro shuffles and there you have it.

I'm sure many have come up with this independently. I know Mike Skinner used it a lot and published an excellent effect, "The Monkeys Paw", which takes advantage of the fact that three more faros brings you back to new deck order.
Message: Posted by: MemDeck329 (Mar 3, 2015 09:02AM)
That is truly an EXCELLENT idea! I actually have that book: "Classic Sampler"
by Mike Skinner. This does fulfill the requirement/desire to set-up using
Faro Shuffles, and the feature that the deck can be spread face up.

But..... I have spent a lot of time and effort mastering the Aronson Stack.
And, I do like some of the stack-dependant self working miracles included
in this system. There are so many choices in these modern times. All stacks
have inherent advantages and disavantages.
Message: Posted by: Steven Keyl (Mar 14, 2015 07:07AM)
For me, Dyment's QuickStack is perfect because it contains the strengths of both si stebbins type stack and 'random' stacks like Tamariz and Aronson. There's a lot more to it than this, but briefly:
[list]
[*] Like stebbins-style stacks you're one faro from collecting all cards into mated pairs--for me, VERY useful; two faros from 4 of a kind groupings, again very useful
[*] Like Aronson and other random stacks when spreading it on the table it doesn't betray any obvious patterns AT ANY POINT through the 8 faro cycle; unlike stebbins which starts in strict red-black order and then as you move through the faro cycle the suits clump up together in ways that don't look random at all (though you can use this feature to your advantage)
[/list]

Bottom line, any stack you devote some time toward will generate benefits as you become aware of relationships and symmetries that you weren't previously aware of and if you can leverage any particular stack's strength to your presentation you've got quite a tool for the toolbox.
Message: Posted by: Cohiba (Mar 15, 2015 07:24PM)
[quote]On Mar 14, 2015, Steven Keyl wrote:
For me, Dyment's QuickStack is perfect because it contains the strengths of both si stebbins type stack and 'random' stacks like Tamariz and Aronson. There's a lot more to it than this, but briefly:
[list]
[*] Like stebbins-style stacks you're one faro from collecting all cards into mated pairs--for me, VERY useful; two faros from 4 of a kind groupings, again very useful
[*] Like Aronson and other random stacks when spreading it on the table it doesn't betray any obvious patterns AT ANY POINT through the 8 faro cycle; unlike stebbins which starts in strict red-black order and then as you move through the faro cycle the suits clump up together in ways that don't look random at all (though you can use this feature to your advantage)
[/list]

Bottom line, any stack you devote some time toward will generate benefits as you become aware of relationships and symmetries that you weren't previously aware of and if you can leverage any particular stack's strength to your presentation you've got quite a tool for the toolbox. [/quote]

Steve - do you mean AT ANY POINT with the exception of 1 and 2 faros after the stack, when the cards are in pairs or 4 of a kinds?

I haven't studied Doug's stack, but it sounds interesting.