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Topic: Can't remember tricks I see
Message: Posted by: Déclic (Apr 12, 2015 05:32AM)
There's a thing that started little during my lessons but felt more and more big and problematic with time and study:
I have practiced magic for a while and while I have a slow pace because of busy life, I start to know a good handful of basic card sleights.
My professor taught me how to recreate/retro-engineer routines I see performed in front of me, and I am quite good at it using videos or understanding on the spot
what are the sleights involved.

The problem being that when I can't record a video or watch it on YT or other, in short,
when I am in front of another magician and I want to do that after I saw something cool, I barely can.
I have to go on the internet fishing for the effet.
When I have a lesson with my professor, indeed he shows me the trick, but then if I missed some point, I can't remember what to do, like
the transitions between sleights that are sometimes as important that a well managed sleight for not getting stuck.
And I have to call him again or wait to see him for being able to work.
So that's very bad cause it prevents me to make the best of my lessons.
Also, it's not that he's too scarce on explanations, that's just that I miss little things like if I have to deal after a part of the effect, shuffle, or things like that.
I am like: "so first he showed me a card turning, ok, then... wait I remember he did that again. But ok, did he shuffled the cards after the first one, did he peeled cards or dealed them? and after, what followed?".
I get ****ed, disappointed and confounded by that.

I generally have a good memory, but it's like my short term memory can't absorb things done fast in front of me.
fast being like "too fast for me to formulate it and repeat it in my words so I can remember it". Which obviously,
happens all the time, indeed.
I could compare that to what happen when some people like me try to mirror a choreographer.
Most of them are overwhelmed.

Indeed I think practice can make me better at that. But I feel like I am stupid or sick. Still I am not, I already saw a doctor for memory loss (not because of magic) but
they keep saying me I performed vastly better than regular people. So if I am coined to have "super memory", like being able to recite lists of 15 objects one hour after I read it or quoting long numbers backwards, why can't I remember a small trick done in front of me??
I am alone here or is it common?
It is just enraging me.

Thanks for your insights and help by advance.
Message: Posted by: widuk (Apr 12, 2015 09:39AM)
Perhaps your problem is not a poor memory but lack of attention. So you would have to do some attention and concentration exercises.
Message: Posted by: Déclic (Apr 12, 2015 11:39AM)
Thanks for your answer. Well, I am really focused and trying to memorize so I don't know what happens.
I am really like I am losing the thread really fast. I mean, I see the things and am aware, but when I try to put the pieces together,
I am confused. Can't remember the different parts, just prominent actions or effects, not the things in between.
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Apr 12, 2015 12:56PM)
I wrote quite a few books for you!
Message: Posted by: Déclic (Apr 12, 2015 01:51PM)
Sir, I am very glad that you answer me, but I am not sure to understand very well (but maybe that my lack of culture in the magic world talking).
Indeed your material, for what I heard about, is prime quality and dign of interest.
Still, I think that being able to learn from seeing other magicians is important too.
I don't know if you were doing reference to routines and sleights in your book for me not having the need to work
on that, or if you wrote specific things about this kind of learning.
Could you be more specific, please?
Thanks by advance
Message: Posted by: Kyoki_Sanitys_Eclipse (Apr 12, 2015 02:58PM)
First off if a magician does a trick and you can't backtrack he's doing a good job,generally. that's if the effect went well and was pleasing. The other part takes practice. I have to go over some tricks quite a few times before I get them down in sequence.
Message: Posted by: Déclic (Apr 12, 2015 03:23PM)
Thanks. You used exactly the right word: sequence.
It's not so much that I can't backtrack it because when it rely upon simple sleights I can do it, but
just that I am unable to remember such things as the sequence. Like impossible to remember "details", that are importants,
like the hands and the ways of holding the cards, if that was a specific card and so on.
It's very hard to remember things that I am very concious about. And I don't understand why...
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Apr 12, 2015 05:47PM)
My books - about twenty of them! - teach how to remember. You'd have to twist the ideas to make them work for your particular memory problem. For example - I teach how to remember names, faces, numbers of ANY kind, lists of ANY kind, language, and on and on. I've never specifically taught to apply it to remembering card routines, but - my systems can apply to anything if you work at it. Best I can do for you. HL.
Message: Posted by: motown (Apr 12, 2015 07:58PM)
Maybe you need to think about purchasing the items you want to learn. That way you'll have the written or video instructions.
Message: Posted by: Jescilito (Apr 12, 2015 08:27PM)
Start taking a notebook along with you to your lessons.
Message: Posted by: jclightman (Apr 12, 2015 09:27PM)
Harry...I had forgot about that line of books. I guess I need to get them, too. :)
Message: Posted by: Déclic (Apr 13, 2015 03:12PM)
Thank you Sir;) I'll look into this system.

Thanks to all of you for your answers.
Motown; indeed, but the idea behind that is not to be dependent on that. First because I am already taking lessons and it would be a waste to buy basic material that I am taught during lessons, and second because the manuals don't contain everything.
Also, if I can't describe a sequence or effect precisely, I can't do better in describing it for finding it on the web or to other magicians.

Jescilito; I have already a notebook and lenghty explanations. The problem being that I miss some points that should be evident.
For example; if I am to describe a routine I was taught, sometimes I will be stuck because even if I have lots of note, something that was quite precise at the moment became fuzzy, or that something that was simple and thus not told has been skipped and I can't remember it and even if I am not really stuck, it will cause the routine to fail because the detail has some implications (that are clear at first, or that felt so natural I overlooked it, and that should not be said by my teacher if I was "paying attention". Unless I pay attention but forget things like how he showed the cards or something...)
It feels really stupid but I think that's so unnatural people can't understand. My teacher believes that's because I lack self confidence, for example...
Message: Posted by: 1KJ (Apr 14, 2015 11:34PM)

You might want to focus on creating a few routines that are yours, not someone else's. They could be your versions of classics, such as OOTW, Triumph, etc. Or, they could be something totally unique. Practice them until they are "yours".

There are a million books on someone else's card tricks, but there is only one you.

Use your creativity.

Message: Posted by: jimgerrish (Apr 15, 2015 01:42PM)
It may help if you talk yourself through the tricks - out loud (with no lay persons around!). You will not only be remembering what you saw visually, but also what you heard yourself say, and what your mouth was saying. At the same time, your body is remembering the moves you made to accomplish the trick. Adding a few more memories to the practice session can help. Just remember to stop reciting the trick out loud when you perform it! But if you get stuck because of stage-fright or nervousness in front of an audience, just say the words to yourself to get started again.
Message: Posted by: Déclic (Apr 18, 2015 09:41AM)
1KJ: thanks but for now I am still at basics. Also, the fact that I can't remember some "effect" disallow me to find new tricks and sleights in someone else hands and make it my own and creating new things with it.

Thanks for these useful tips Jim! I actually talked to myself all along today's course. Kind of intuitive behavior, actually.
Message: Posted by: Payne (Apr 21, 2015 04:11PM)
Learn one trick at a time. Perform it over and over again until it becomes second nature and you could do it in your sleep. Then, and only then move on to your next trick.

Right now it sounds as if your not focusing on a trick to do it justice. But instead trying to backwards engineer every trick you see.
Message: Posted by: Déclic (Apr 22, 2015 04:13PM)
Well it's not that I really change my focus, it's more about trying to understand interesting things I've seen in order to improve generally in the art of magic,
since knowing principles makes a lot about this too.
But You might be right, as my mind may be too dissipated to not mix things...
Message: Posted by: Tukaram (Apr 25, 2015 05:40AM)
I learn better by video. It just fits my learning style better. But to help me remember I keep a notebook. Write each trick out step by step. I like to skip a few pages in between each effect for either more notes later, or a similar effect. The book is in no kind of order... but it still helps me as they are effects I am working on.
Message: Posted by: Maxy (Apr 29, 2015 04:38AM)
[quote]On Apr 21, 2015, Payne wrote:
Learn one trick at a time. Perform it over and over again until it becomes second nature and you could do it in your sleep. Then, and only then move on to your next trick.

Right now it sounds as if your not focusing on a trick to do it justice. But instead trying to backwards engineer every trick you see. [/quote]
One trick at a time and try to master it.
Do it over and over infront of mirror or record it in video and watch it to spot your weakness and critisize yourself.
Practice practice practice.
After time moves will come automatically without thinking.
Message: Posted by: landmark (May 4, 2015 06:18AM)
It takes time and experience to know just what you should be paying attention to.
Just keep learning, one trick at a time. Then perform, perform, expect not to be happy with the results at first.
A video camera helps too.
Also take a look at An Actor Prepares by Stanislavsky and understand how he recommends learning a part beat by beat, objective by objective, but then subsumes that all under the super-objective in an unbroken line.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (May 4, 2015 07:15PM)
Don't feel bad. Sometimes I can't even remember the effects that I do. :eek: