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Topic: Iris by Lloyd Barnes
Message: Posted by: daniltan (Aug 19, 2015 12:20PM)
Just watched the trailer. What's the point of that effect? It's insane.. It's bad.. Perhaps if you have another video for me to see? So I can change my mind. Please..

P.S. This is the link http://www.ellusionist.com/iris-by-lloyd-barnes.html
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Aug 19, 2015 12:26PM)
Doesn't look as good as Melt 2.0 imo
Message: Posted by: Archey (Aug 19, 2015 12:30PM)
Ellusionist doesn't half release some **** nowadays.
Message: Posted by: daniltan (Aug 19, 2015 12:47PM)
How can you convince laymen with this effect? IMO, just showing the regular card wont help. The movement of the hand drop down that fast is so telling anyone to inspect the whole deck. It's too suspicious. I agree, Melt2.0 is far more better than this.
Message: Posted by: Alex DLF (Aug 19, 2015 12:51PM)
LLoyd Barnes ?


Ellusionist ?


Ahahaha, are people gonna still buy things from these guys ? Come on, this is crap as was Change, please, stop !

P.S. : Now to make a new magic trick, you just have to print random things on playing cards, gosh !
Message: Posted by: gtx magic (Aug 19, 2015 01:27PM)
This could CHANGE our lives forever !!! A new magic revolution has begun.be prepared for famed recognition through out the world. :rotf:
Message: Posted by: RiBo (Aug 19, 2015 02:39PM)
Not usually one to pile on, but after CHANGE, it will be a very long time before I invest in anything Lloyd creates,

Unless reviews start rolling in that the gimmick literally grants the power to dematerialize objects, I can't see myself buying anything he releases.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Aug 19, 2015 03:57PM)
There's only 1000 of these available. Fact. When they're gone, they're gone. Get your preorder in now.
Message: Posted by: RiBo (Aug 19, 2015 04:55PM)
[quote]On Aug 19, 2015, pegasus wrote:
There's only 1000 of these available. Fact. When they're gone, they're gone. Get your preorder in now. [/quote]

"Fact."

That's perfect.
Message: Posted by: Chamberlain (Aug 19, 2015 05:18PM)
It's almost like Ellusionist is trolling us to see what people will buy.

Melt is 10000x better.
Message: Posted by: Paul S Wingham (Aug 20, 2015 02:12AM)
Oh dear. I've said this before but I've really enjoyed a number of Lloyds' previous releases but this feels like it's cut from the same cloth as change, albeit a different method. Possibly useable for a camera, but I don't think anyone is going to fool for this close up whether you switch the card or not. For me the crown is still held by melt which can be seen performed to the general public many many times.

I could be wrong and it could be totally useable but why are these tricks filmed straight to camera in a living room, rather than in real performance. It sounds like I am bashing Lloyd and I'm not, I just don't think this is going to be practical for real world performance and generally speaking I am sick of magic being released that isn't performable outside of youtube.
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Aug 20, 2015 03:30AM)
Right ... So they clearly stated this gimmick is not the same as Change ? Probably they know most are fed up with Change and wanted to specify it's different than Change so that others might buy it ?

Well this looks as awful as change ... And plus the switch is like the switch used in Wonderbox Trailer by Sansmids , expect everything is terrible ...
Message: Posted by: daniltan (Aug 20, 2015 08:48AM)
[quote]On Aug 20, 2015, Paul S Wingham wrote:
Oh dear. I've said this before but I've really enjoyed a number of Lloyds' previous releases but this feels like it's cut from the same cloth as change, albeit a different method. Possibly useable for a camera, but I don't think anyone is going to fool for this close up whether you switch the card or not. For me the crown is still held by melt which can be seen performed to the general public many many times.

I could be wrong and it could be totally useable but why are these tricks filmed straight to camera in a living room, rather than in real performance. It sounds like I am bashing Lloyd and I'm not, I just don't think this is going to be practical for real world performance and generally speaking I am sick of magic being released that isn't performable outside of youtube. [/quote]
Agree! I also want to see other video for this effect. The trailer right now is unbelievable to be displayed on E. It was too painful to see it there.

[quote]On Aug 20, 2015, Magician560 wrote:
Right ... So they clearly stated this gimmick is not the same as Change ? Probably they know most are fed up with Change and wanted to specify it's different than Change so that others might buy it ?

Well this looks as awful as change ... And plus the switch is like the switch used in Wonderbox Trailer by Sansmids , expect everything is terrible ... [/quote]
To be honest, I couldn't see the switch since he just took a different card from off the camera view (in my view point, though).
Message: Posted by: scott0819 (Aug 20, 2015 11:39AM)
Wow, pretty harsh criticism. I understand coming right off of Change that people will be super critical because a lot of people feel they got burned; but some comments are just mean.

The visual of this is kind of cool but how on earth do you naturally switch the card out at the end? It would be a pretty awkward handling to hold a deck throughout the trick; I'm only guessing that is what is suggested in the explanation for this.
Message: Posted by: RNK (Aug 20, 2015 12:14PM)
[quote]On Aug 20, 2015, scott0819 wrote:
Wow, pretty harsh criticism. I understand coming right off of Change that people will be super critical because a lot of people feel they got burned; but some comments are just mean.
[/quote]


Maybe if E would have bucked up and admitted their mistakes and not criticized others so arrogantly these comments would not have been so mean.
Message: Posted by: Gorecki (Aug 20, 2015 12:34PM)
Is this for real? It's the sort of effect that, had I come up with it, I would never have thought I could market it.
Yet here we are. Wow.
Message: Posted by: Calvin826 (Aug 20, 2015 12:50PM)
Ya think they had this trick/demo in the can before the Change debacle, and couldn't afford to not release? Otherwise, F everyone involved. As the old saying goes, this is insult after injury.

I really can't wrap my head around this- I can only hope that this is some kind of devious 'marketing masterstroke', a-la New Coke, and that the jokes on us. Perhaps Lloyd and E are actually trying to reinvigorate sales for Melt 2.0, by pretending to promote this laughably inferior product?
Message: Posted by: gdw (Aug 20, 2015 05:10PM)
This isn't a trick, it's a moment, it's an idea for a moment.

I could certainly have seen this being flushed out into something worthwhile, but what I'm seeing in the demo video is not it.
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Aug 20, 2015 05:44PM)
I think I shall invent a gimmick by printing random things on some cards ... Easy profit ~
Message: Posted by: Paul S Wingham (Aug 21, 2015 04:29AM)
[quote]On Aug 20, 2015, gdw wrote:
This isn't a trick, it's a moment, it's an idea for a moment.

I could certainly have seen this being flushed out into something worthwhile, but what I'm seeing in the demo video is not it. [/quote]

I think that's it. It's not a terribly bad moment but in isolation there is going to be so much heat on that card and unless its a very clever gimmick, you didn't see it being rung in; you just saw a hand dip out of shot and come back with a card. I assume the same needs to be done in reverse. Imagine if you could do something like this and then move effortlessly in to melt; you'd have a nice additional phase. However; I'm still not convinced people wont assume / be able to see the card is gimmicked at close range.

Come on; you flew all the way to New York; pop out to a bar and film it being done live. If nothing else it'll shut people like me up.
Message: Posted by: magicman29 (Aug 21, 2015 07:31AM)
I'm gonna take the plunge later and see what it's like, hopefully not as bad as change but we'll see.....

Kieran
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Aug 21, 2015 08:46AM)
[quote]On Aug 19, 2015, daniltan wrote:
Just watched the trailer. What's the point of that effect? It's insane.. It's bad.. Perhaps if you have another video for me to see? So I can change my mind. Please..

P.S. This is the link http://www.ellusionist.com/iris-by-lloyd-barnes.html [/quote]

I think you are just looking at this effect all wrong...tilt your screen by 20° and it will change to a much better effect. :)
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Aug 21, 2015 08:51AM)
Hahaha. Nice one Ray. :rotf:
Message: Posted by: Gorecki (Aug 21, 2015 08:52AM)
[quote]On Aug 21, 2015, magicman29 wrote:
I'm gonna take the plunge later and see what it's like, hopefully not as bad as change but we'll see.....

Kieran [/quote]
You're a brave man, Kieran. I'll be curious to hear what you have to say.
Message: Posted by: ULockJustice (Aug 21, 2015 09:15AM)
Clearly the Change debacle had an effect on them, since the ad copy clearly states it is not the same gimmick. I hope that phrase is in all of their future releases.

Really looking forward to hands on reviews of this. Maybe this could turn into something you could combine into a longer bill and card routine with multiple phases. I'm going to be hugely optimistic, but also wait for other people to spend their hard earned bucks on it before I inevitably become intoxicated and buy it late at night.
Message: Posted by: JoelDickinson (Aug 21, 2015 09:41AM)
I don't see the issue here. It isn't the same gimmick. This is what it is - I just don't know how an audience would react to this ?
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Aug 21, 2015 10:03AM)
To be fair, although it's spoilt by Lloyd having his paws cover the card in the most obvious way near the beginning and the somewhat ham-fisted switch, visually it looks okay.

Of course that's on camera and is no guarantee of what it looks like for real.
Message: Posted by: daniltan (Aug 21, 2015 10:13AM)
If somehow he can move the bill while the bill passing through the card-- even a couple millimeters is enough. Or, holding the bill and the card with one hand and flap the bill to show that the bill passing through the card. Then I'm sold. IMO, that'd be the biggest flaw of the effect. It's not very impressive to me. Just like a rough idea put into a product.
Message: Posted by: magicman29 (Aug 21, 2015 11:29AM)
I went to purchase this but the international postage is $7.95 with a 6-8 week wait, f###k that!! With the gimmick being "light" and if it is "flat" like I think it is then why can't they do a flat pack free postage like penguin....

Kieran
Message: Posted by: magicman29 (Aug 21, 2015 11:31AM)
Just a pointless post to give myself 1001 posts :)

Kieran
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Aug 21, 2015 11:58AM)
Penguin can ship flat packs for free , I wonder why they can't ...
Message: Posted by: daniltan (Aug 21, 2015 12:59PM)
[quote]On Aug 21, 2015, magicman29 wrote:
I went to purchase this but the international postage is $7.95 with a 6-8 week wait, f###k that!! With the gimmick being "light" and if it is "flat" like I think it is then why can't they do a flat pack free postage like penguin....

Kieran [/quote]

I guess we lost the only person who gonna try to get this trick.
Message: Posted by: neoinwonderland (Aug 21, 2015 02:02PM)
[quote]On Aug 20, 2015, RNK wrote:
[quote]On Aug 20, 2015, scott0819 wrote:
Wow, pretty harsh criticism. I understand coming right off of Change that people will be super critical because a lot of people feel they got burned; but some comments are just mean.
[/quote]


Maybe if E would have bucked up and admitted their mistakes and not criticized others so arrogantly these comments would not have been so mean. [/quote]

I Have to give Lloyd Barnes credit though for standing behind his own product and really uploading some real life performance videos after all the criticism.

I was not happy with my change gimmick and I think it is way too impractical for most environments but I respect him for backing up all his claims about the product by uploading a real life performance video.
Message: Posted by: gdw (Aug 21, 2015 07:41PM)
Although I didn't jump on the bash Change bandwagon, I'd love to see the additional live performance videos. Where are they posted, if you don't mind me asking?
Message: Posted by: daniltan (Aug 21, 2015 09:20PM)
[quote]On Aug 22, 2015, gdw wrote:
Although I didn't jump on the bash Change bandwagon, I'd love to see the additional live performance videos. Where are they posted, if you don't mind me asking? [/quote]

Here it is! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CuImhGEAsnk

Shall we back on the Iris trick now, please :-) Anybody else care to take it and review it? I still stand on my opinion that this trick lacks on depth. It's just still too rough. Maybe a new video live footage or new angle of trailer could change my mind on this trick?
Message: Posted by: gdw (Aug 22, 2015 08:15AM)
Thanks!
Message: Posted by: GeraintClarke (Aug 22, 2015 11:08AM)
Live performance : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOlm44y0w7U
Message: Posted by: Ceierry (Aug 22, 2015 11:22AM)
Why do you not combine Iris with Melt 2.0 ? :)
Message: Posted by: daniltan (Aug 22, 2015 11:29AM)
Thank you for the live video performance. This one is much more better than the trailer video. Especially the pull down motion. A few millisecond slower than what I saw in the trailer, making it more convincing. I think for a bar performance where's the lighting is a bit dim this is quite flashy and quick opener effect where after you finish you've got borrowed money on your hand and you can continue to your next performance. Nice one!
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Aug 22, 2015 11:52AM)
[quote]On Aug 22, 2015, GeraintClarke wrote:
Live performance : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOlm44y0w7U [/quote]

Well, seeing what I assume are the Ellusionist team whooping and hollering and jumping up and down like incontinent apes sure does explain a lot !!! :)
Message: Posted by: Alex DLF (Aug 22, 2015 12:08PM)
Ahahah, yeah, let's bring all the E team to shot a "live performance".. What a shame.
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Aug 22, 2015 12:10PM)
I don't see the reason for the life performance ... It's done to the E team ...

And , if they really want to do that , they should put in more effort ... Pick a few E guys whom no-one recognizes , and film Lloyd showing IRIS to them and have they yell and shout on the street , that makes it more believable that IRIS works ...
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Aug 22, 2015 02:17PM)
[quote]On Aug 22, 2015, Ray Chelt wrote:
[quote]On Aug 22, 2015, GeraintClarke wrote:
Live performance : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOlm44y0w7U [/quote]

Well, seeing what I assume are the Ellusionist team whooping and hollering and jumping up and down like incontinent apes sure does explain a lot !!! :) [/quote]

Even Brad Christian was there!

I also noted that there was a strong light shining behind Lloyd. Don't recall seeing that in a trick demo before, but since lighting is such a huge thing with "Change," it could turn out to be the same with "Iris".
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Aug 22, 2015 03:53PM)
Why don't you all go on the appropriate thread (Change) to have this discussion? Honestly it's so tiring hearing the same **** over and over again, like a bunch of whiny five year olds who can't let go of something. If people didn't know better they'd think E had bilked you of your life's savings, not $35 or so.

Any reviews of THIS effect? The one the thread is about.
Message: Posted by: gtx magic (Aug 22, 2015 03:59PM)
[quote]On Aug 22, 2015, Chessmann wrote:
[quote]On Aug 22, 2015, Ray Chelt wrote:
[quote]On Aug 22, 2015, GeraintClarke wrote:
Live performance : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOlm44y0w7U [/quote]

Well, seeing what I assume are the Ellusionist team whooping and hollering and jumping up and down like incontinent apes sure does explain a lot !!! :) [/quote]

Even Brad Christian was there!

I also noted that there was a strong light shining behind Lloyd. Don't recall seeing that in a trick demo before, but since lighting is such a huge thing with "Change," it could turn out to be the same with "Iris". [/quote]

I wonder why we never seen the clean up and the card handed out at the end for inspection. "Mmmmm" ???

Now after Seeing that convincing live performance who is going to rush to press the buy button !!!

But I must admit the ellusionist audience team should be nominated for an Oscar award...Woopeee ye...bravo... excellent.
:dancing: :applause:
Message: Posted by: Ryan Jacobs (Aug 22, 2015 05:36PM)
Hey guys,

Ryan here from marketing at Ellusionist. Thought I'd chime in on this debate.

First of all, aside from Brad & Adam, [b]nobody[/b] else in the trailer works for Ellusionist. The majority of faces which you won't recognise are people who requested to come to an Ellusionist filming party, under the guidelines that they were to bring a +1 (at least) lay person to spectate. If any of the guests there at the party are on here, they will absolutely attest to this. Also, Bobby Motta and Mark Calabrese [i]have[/i] released with us, but do not work for us nor had they seen this effect before. From time to time, faces of team members in every company will show up in trailers. We all know this. Whether you choose to believe this or not, is irrelevant, these are the facts. The reactions from the people in the trailer are real reactions.

The reason we state this is [i]not[/i] Change is simply because people thought this is what it was, since it was following closely to the release of Change. It's as simple as that. It's something new and it makes total sense to state that. This is common in the magic community. Change is one our proudest and most successful releases and although it was received badly by some here at the Magic Café, the overwhelming response to this has been outstanding.

Those of you that own Iris (who have received it in the post) will realise there are [B]NO[/B] lighting restrictions. The bill colors are identical and from what you can probably guess, the angles are 180 degrees around. We're half tempted here at Ellusionist to post the entire explanation so you can see the beauty and simplicity behind this. However, we don't endorse exposure and the reviews will speak for themselves when they roll in.

[b]This is not meant to be a magician fooler.[/b] This is a real world effect. Although this does [i]sometimes[/i] fool magicians, this amazes laymen [i]every time.[/i] What we're giving you is the gimmick and routine for an unbelievable price. We'll be getting more live performances up in the next coming weeks.

Lastly, the switch. This switch wasn't highlighted in the trailer because it's nothing special. We're not going to reveal the switch but we will say it's as simple and as unnoticeable as when you place a deck down on the table whilst turning it over to switch the top card for the bottom card. Any performers out there know that this sort of switch flies 100% of the time. The switch is as motivated, direct and as simple as this. 100% worker.

Those of you that feel like you got stung by Change seem to be very upset and hurt; we empathise with you. Anyone in the magic industry has bought at least one trick that they didn't like, when others loved it. The numbers speak for themselves in simple black & white. Almost 3,000 sold. 34 refunds in total. That's a 1.3% return rate. Incredible! No company in the industry can boast a sales and satisfaction rate as impressive as this. As you can tell, we are very proud. And again, although the thoughts on Change here reflected a minimal minority of our customers who bought Change, we still did our upmost to frequent here and address any of your issues.

So there you have it. Short of outright exposing this to you, we're laying our cards out on the table. Of course a few of you aren't going to stop the hate and we understand that. Every company industry has haters and we are all aware that we can't please them. Where as most people hate the magic café for the types of behaviour found here, we still don't want ignore it completely. For everyone else we can't wait to hear your thoughts, see your performances and we'll try and jump on here when we can to answer any of your questions.

Thanks everyone and nice to meet you!


Ryan Jacobs
Head of Marketing at Ellusionist

P.s. If you'd like to talk directly, feel free to drop me a PM or an email.
Message: Posted by: Alex DLF (Aug 22, 2015 06:03PM)
It's funny how you still don't understand why people were upset about Change.. Wow, I would have expected more from a company like you but hey, let's be dumb and ignore everything said on the forum and just take what we want to hear..

But it's not the debate here, this is clearly not a live performance if done with people you know. Dynamo has a lot of live performances like that if you want to go that way.

Bad company, bad trick, after being really ripped off with Change, I just can't let you guys getting away with those type of things.
Message: Posted by: daniltan (Aug 22, 2015 07:48PM)
C'mon guys the only logical reason why this is not Change is because the back can not "change". The live performance video is not showing a convincing crowds. But it does showing a spectator's view and the move to me is convincing enough for a flashy opening act or maybe for closing act. So you wouldn't need to worry about cleaning the mess. Just pack up and go. For the lighting, IMO these kind of effect work best at a Café or bar where the lighting is not so bright-- on the streets at night. The switch is not the best switch in the world and you need to clean up afterward. But, for general use, the switch is easy to do. The price to me is not so cheap. But, not that expensive either. For me, the shipping cost to my country is very expensive for a single playing card. Flat-pack ala penguinmagic is a good recommendation. Make it free!

The WHY is the major concern of the people in the café. And I think you know WHY. I hope someday E can settle the Change problems accordingly, so it wont go on too long.
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Aug 22, 2015 08:19PM)
I think you guys are being a bit harsh, this does not look bad to me. I think any trick Lloyd followed up with from E was bound to get some backlash here, so I'm not too surprised, but I think everyone is being a bit critical here.
Message: Posted by: Paul S Wingham (Aug 22, 2015 08:41PM)
I've actually laid off E after change but after this I am saying it as I see it. They're a bunch of theiving ****s. Change was just one huge con. I could live with it as i
Am Well off enough to be able to smile at being tricked out of $40, but it annoyed me as a lot of their customers are kids who perhaps cant afford $30 - $40 as easily. Now this crap comes along with their team as the "audience" and now I think "you r taking the mickey". I Implore people not to buy this junk and instead buy melt 2.0 a infinitely superior product.

E in my opinion are taking the **** out of us by releasing this sort of crap that at best belongs on a multi trick dvd and at worst....well belomgs no where
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Aug 22, 2015 10:46PM)
E are not some big evil rip off merchants but there are some fundamental truths here that drive their business.

On Change they sold 3000 units at what, $30 a pop, so that's a gross of $90,000 dollars. Now even before that's split various ways , whilst it's not insignificant to you and I, it's not enough to keep a company running or to ship people in like Lloyd for filming.

They have to keep product flowing and , in the end, economics will come into it not quality. It's something we see also with the likes of Sankey. And of course if they acknowledge this in any way they are doomed :

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/aug/22/gerald-ratner-jewellery-total-crap-1992-archive

My stance is to look for effects that have been proven a lot in the real world, not for some brand new brainchild of a kid who's chained to a production line.

The whoops and hollers over Iris were excitement that they've got another product to put out, not at how good it is.
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Aug 22, 2015 11:06PM)
[quote]On Aug 22, 2015, Slackerking wrote:
Why don't you all go on the appropriate thread (Change) to have this discussion? Honestly it's so tiring hearing the same **** over and over again, like a bunch of whiny five year olds who can't let go of something. If people didn't know better they'd think E had bilked you of your life's savings, not $35 or so.

Any reviews of THIS effect? The one the thread is about. [/quote]

LOL, you wouldn't like the conversation no matter where it took place, and I find it very odd for you to be telling people what they should talk about. Regarding the effects, there *appear* to be some similarities between "Iris" and "Change," so comparing and discussing the effects is only natural. The only one giving the appearance of a whiny 5 year-old is yourself.

Reviews for "Iris" will come when people actually purchase the effect. Just be patient.

The sad thing is, you think that the "Change" issue was about the amount of money involved. It wasn't.
Message: Posted by: pavelrodzevich (Aug 22, 2015 11:15PM)
What's wrong with E? They produced really great tricks. But what is that?

I don't like camera tricks, but iris doesn't even look good when filmed

Pavel
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Aug 22, 2015 11:29PM)
[quote]On Aug 22, 2015, Ryan Jacobs wrote:

Those of you that feel like you got stung by Change seem to be very upset and hurt; we empathise with you. Anyone in the magic industry has bought at least one trick that they didn't like, when others loved it. The numbers speak for themselves in simple black & white. Almost 3,000 sold. 34 refunds in total. That's a 1.3% return rate. Incredible! No company in the industry can boast a sales and satisfaction rate as impressive as this. As you can tell, we are very proud. And again, although the thoughts on Change here reflected a minimal minority of our customers who bought Change, we still did our upmost to frequent here and address any of your issues.

[/quote]

1.3%...sounds like the percentage of good reviews for "Change"! "Change" has been almost universally panned, not only by purchasers, but by respected folks in the field. Gotta admit, Ryan (nice to place a name with the marketer and his ethic, btw), your ploy worked. You did great with sales, but you're lying through your teeth about satisfaction - and you are well aware of this. You're arrogance is about as bad as your ethics. But it was good of you to come here and demonstrate that fact.

"...although the thoughts on Change here reflected a minimal minority of our customers..." Arguing from silence - is this truly the best you can do? Apparently, it is. Your ethics and your tactics are simply disgusting. But what else can you do? Well, in E's case, say the same thing over and over until it is clear that you are actually saying nothing at all.
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Aug 23, 2015 12:47AM)
[quote]On Aug 22, 2015, Ryan Jacobs wrote:

"First of all, aside from Brad & Adam, [b]nobody[/b] else in the trailer works for Ellusionist. The majority of faces which you won't recognise are people who requested to come to an Ellusionist filming party, under the guidelines that they were to bring a +1 (at least) lay person to spectate. If any of the guests there at the party are on here, they will absolutely attest to this. Also, Bobby Motta and Mark Calabrese [i]have[/i] released with us, but do not work for us nor had they seen this effect before. From time to time, faces of team members in every company will show up in trailers. We all know this. Whether you choose to believe this or not, is irrelevant, these are the facts. The reactions from the people in the trailer are real reactions."
[/quote]

I have never seen a group of mostly "random" spectators all yell "Wooo wooo" simultaneously as they did in the "live" demo video. Street crowds yell, curse (usually often and loud!), and make various kinds of noise, but that synchronized "woo" sound? Real reactions? Difficult to believe.

Jim
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Aug 23, 2015 01:28AM)
[quote]On Aug 23, 2015, J-Mac wrote:
[quote]On Aug 22, 2015, Ryan Jacobs wrote:

"First of all, aside from Brad & Adam, [b]nobody[/b] else in the trailer works for Ellusionist. The majority of faces which you won't recognise are people who requested to come to an Ellusionist filming party, under the guidelines that they were to bring a +1 (at least) lay person to spectate. If any of the guests there at the party are on here, they will absolutely attest to this. Also, Bobby Motta and Mark Calabrese [i]have[/i] released with us, but do not work for us nor had they seen this effect before. From time to time, faces of team members in every company will show up in trailers. We all know this. Whether you choose to believe this or not, is irrelevant, these are the facts. The reactions from the people in the trailer are real reactions."
[/quote]

I have never seen a group of mostly "random" spectators all yell "Wooo wooo" simultaneously as they did in the "live" demo video. Street crowds yell, curse (usually often and loud!), and make various kinds of noise, but that synchronized "woo" sound? Real reactions? Difficult to believe.

Jim [/quote]


Jim, you mean you've never had a spectator jump around like a monkey at one of your performances ? You need Iris from Ellusionist..."It'll make them scream like chimps!"
Message: Posted by: Sean Giles (Aug 23, 2015 01:34AM)
If that's Ellusionists head of marketing then it's not surprising the mistakes they are making. Brad Christian seriously needs to find some new talent.
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Aug 23, 2015 01:52AM)
[quote]On Aug 23, 2015, Chessmann wrote:
[quote]On Aug 22, 2015, Slackerking wrote:
Why don't you all go on the appropriate thread (Change) to have this discussion? Honestly it's so tiring hearing the same **** over and over again, like a bunch of whiny five year olds who can't let go of something. If people didn't know better they'd think E had bilked you of your life's savings, not $35 or so.

Any reviews of THIS effect? The one the thread is about. [/quote]

LOL, you wouldn't like the conversation no matter where it took place, and I find it very odd for you to be telling people what they should talk about. Regarding the effects, there *appear* to be some similarities between "Iris" and "Change," so comparing and discussing the effects is only natural. The only one giving the appearance of a whiny 5 year-old is yourself.

Reviews for "Iris" will come when people actually purchase the effect. Just be patient.

The sad thing is, you think that the "Change" issue was about the amount of money involved. It wasn't. [/quote]

Okay, you're the adult. Putting photos of pieces of **** on threads is very mature. I really need to grow up.
Message: Posted by: daniltan (Aug 23, 2015 02:24AM)
Oh no.. Not that picture again...
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Aug 23, 2015 03:22AM)
[quote]On Aug 22, 2015, Ryan Jacobs wrote:
Hey guys,

Almost 3,000 sold. 34 refunds in total. That's a 1.3% return rate. Incredible! No company in the industry can boast a sales and satisfaction rate as impressive as this. [/quote]

Not sure who released their figures to you :-)

I've sold around 20,000 units of Double Back and not had anyone ask for a refund. That works out at..... 0%

I've only ever had to issue two refunds across all my products ever. That's something like 0.000001% across the range.

Not a boast.

Just saying.
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Aug 23, 2015 09:18AM)
I was one of the 34 returns.

It was the first time I ever returned a magic trick in my life.

It's not the first time that I wanted to do it, but I was under the (false) impression that a magic trick could NOT be returned- you know, I bought the secret as well as the trick itself.

Maybe that's the reason there were so few returns on "Change"?

It's been hammered into our heads for so long, and we've all come to believe it.

I'll bet that the 34 returns were more than Ellusionist has gotten in their entire 15 years or so of being in business.

Thirteen returns in 15 years, and then 34 in two weeks.

Anyway, Lloyd Barnes and Ryan Jacobs (it's good for me to have another name to attach to that disaster, Ryan- thanks for letting me know!) and Ellusionist are added to my list of people that I will NEVER purchase from again. The list grows slowly but surely because the magic field is littered with people with no marketing morals at all.

Oh, and thanks for calling me a "Hater" because I'm upset with your low standards and morals.

That's the way things are handled today any time someone disagrees with your own standards or opinions.

He's a hater, so don't listen to him.

Take care,
Jack the Hater, VP of The He-Man Ellusionist Hater's Club
(My apologies to "The Little Rascals")
Message: Posted by: RagnarzA (Aug 23, 2015 10:23AM)
:(
Message: Posted by: Paul S Wingham (Aug 23, 2015 01:29PM)
And then you post a review on the ellusionist website and if its not a glowimg recommendation or a five star; they don't publish it. Its all very shady in my opinion.
Message: Posted by: gtx magic (Aug 23, 2015 03:16PM)
Here is another video of Iris by Lloyd,this one as genuine audience reaction's...Honestly no BS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnaiFN2E3IA

Graham.
Message: Posted by: Alex DLF (Aug 23, 2015 04:01PM)
Fair enough !

That was a good laugh :)
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Aug 23, 2015 04:23PM)
Too me, it just look's so faint when it is ment to be through the card,so I just can not get it,most of the hand is covering ,what we want the spectator's to see ,no?.
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Aug 23, 2015 05:55PM)
[quote]On Aug 24, 2015, gtx magic wrote:
Here is another video of Iris by Lloyd,this one as genuine audience reaction's...Honestly no BS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnaiFN2E3IA

Graham. [/quote]

That was ... Very dramatic but I guess would be the exact opposite reaction for IRIS in the real world ...
Message: Posted by: RNK (Aug 24, 2015 08:42AM)
[quote]On Aug 23, 2015, Paul S Wingham wrote:
And then you post a review on the ellusionist website and if its not a glowimg recommendation or a five star; they don't publish it. Its all very shady in my opinion. [/quote]

Exactly. Sad to see what's happening with E. And that real world video, well, I couldn't help but chuckle after the reactions. All was very shady- that's a great word for it Paul. It is truly funny to watch how E and others that market this way must think consumers are not very smart. For me, that's even more disturbing and cements my position in boycotting purchasing anything from them. I know- it is partly shallow to think and feel that way- but they obviously don't think to much of the consumer.

The one guy in the video in the back was hilarious- making those goofy faces and dancing around. It looked to me that those guys clearly knew Lloyd. Again- doesn't sit well with me to try and pull a fast one on the consumer. Just bad taste.

Somebody should really take the shovel away from E.
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Aug 24, 2015 08:47AM)
[quote]On Aug 22, 2015, Ryan Jacobs wrote:

Lastly, the switch. This switch wasn't highlighted in the trailer because it's nothing special. We're not going to reveal the switch but we will say it's as simple and as unnoticeable as when you place a deck down on the table whilst turning it over to switch the top card for the bottom card. Any performers out there know that this sort of switch flies 100% of the time. The switch is as motivated, direct and as simple as this. 100% worker. .
[/quote]

I actually agree that showing a switch is not always necessary in a trailer. It is very different to not showing a selection process which many trailers have done to dupe viewers. However, any switch needs motivation, trchnique and psychology taught.

I'm sure there are many magicians on here who are new to magic or who are still learning about the psychology of it. They may not realise that there is a massive difference between an object that has no heat on it and one that does. I hope this helps them.

If someone chooses a card, you naturally ask them to look at it... and they naturally want to anyway. At that moment, they are interested in the card. There is no reason to be interested in the deck. Turning it over as you place it one table at that point is the the prime time to do so.

If someone's borrowed note visible penetrates your own playing card, there is a lot off heat on the plying card. They really want to look at it. They will follow it to the end of the earth to look at it! They know their note is clean so the only other object is the card. Asking them to check out their own money is tantamount to saying, "Look over there!"

I would hope that the psychological aspect of having the gimmicked card being the one thing people want to look at is covered.
Message: Posted by: RiBo (Aug 25, 2015 06:15AM)
[quote]On Aug 23, 2015, Paul S Wingham wrote:
And then you post a review on the ellusionist website and if its not a glowimg recommendation or a five star; they don't publish it. Its all very shady in my opinion. [/quote]

This is my frustration.

I posted a two-star review after getting an email from them soliciting one. I did around two weeks ago (could be longer) and it still hasn't shown up.

I PMed Ryan Jacobs asking about it (per his request, on this thread) but no response. That was on Saturday, so only three days ago, but I'm a bit disappointed - again - that he hasn't responded given the fact that he was "open" enough to come here and request that people PM him with questions or comments.

The shame of it is that in the Internet world, building relationships with customers is tough, but critical for longterm success. For whatever reason Ellusionist seems to be blowing that aspect of their business at the moment.
Message: Posted by: magicman29 (Aug 25, 2015 07:22AM)
I too have sent a pm to Ryan Jacobs about the price of postage but still waiting for a reply....

Kieran
Message: Posted by: Low Key (Aug 25, 2015 08:46AM)
Kieran, my advice to you would be to be 100% sure about any order (pre- or otherwise) you place with Ellusionist.

If you place an order you can't cancel it if you change your mind. You have to wait for it to be delivered, then return it (at your own expense) for a refund.
I had no idea this was their policy, but according to what they told PayPal it's not only policy, but cancelling orders before they ship is impossible for them.

I'm in the UK, and by a freak of statistics I'm also one of the 34 people who returned Change.
The return postage cost me £10 because I had to go through a PayPal dispute to get Ellusionist to act legally and refund both postage and cost of item. PayPal require an online tracking number for returned items, which ups the price of international postage, apparently.
If you deal with Ellusionist directly they will only refund the cost of the item and you'll have to pay both postage costs.

As a customer service aside it's very sad that only 34 people returned this, but as 1 of this tiny number I had to go through PayPal, and Ellusionist consistently waited until the last day to respond to PayPal.

They also erroneously referred to me as a 'he'.
34 refunds, some presumably directly with Ellusionist, and they couldn't take a few seconds to check my gender if they need to refer to it?
Message: Posted by: Sean Xem (Aug 30, 2015 12:31PM)
Low Key,

I have cancelled orders at E before they have shipped. Probably done this a few times over the years.

They never gave me a problem about it either.
Message: Posted by: Low Key (Aug 30, 2015 02:35PM)
Lucky you :)

That was what they told me via email, and what they told PayPal.

Perhaps they've changed their policy.
Perhaps they just decided to be difficult with me.
I couldn't say. I only know what they told me and PayPal.
Message: Posted by: MJE (Aug 31, 2015 02:06PM)
[quote]On Aug 22, 2015, Ryan Jacobs wrote:
This switch wasn't highlighted in the trailer because it's nothing special.

Did no one but me find that statement hilarious? I don't have "Iris," nor do I have any intention of purchasing it, but to edit out the point at which the magic happens (for the performer) is sort of like those Melies films where he stops the camera, someone steps in front of the camera, and he resumes shooting so that someone just magically appeared in the frame. There was, of course, "nothing special" going on while the camera was off. These Ellusionist guys are digging their hole deeper, it seems.
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Aug 31, 2015 09:30PM)
"He is the only outside consultant Ellusionist ever hired. His experience resulted in..."

[img]http://media.giphy.com/media/ADr35Z4TvATIc/giphy.gif[/img]
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Sep 1, 2015 09:25AM)
Nah , they're just editing out the switch so it can fool us ~ And we are so totally fooled , stunned and never going to press the order button ~
Message: Posted by: magicman29 (Sep 1, 2015 11:22AM)
I reckon just let this thread die, "the less people know about it the less people fund ellusionist.

Kieran
Message: Posted by: Ceierry (Sep 23, 2015 04:33PM)
I have Iris, and people love this trick, it's the most visual card thru bill effect available, peoples prefer Melt instead Iris, why not? Iris is just an alternative and for those who prefer hard close up magic, Melt is for you, those who simply want a moment of visual magic of something absolutely impossible, Iris is a good option, workable.

Thumbs up for me.

15$ is cheap? No, absolutely not, but IMHO, it's hard for a single gimmick, but think about that moment of visual, and the times you'll perform this.

- Good trick to keep the bill btw :) (tips)
Message: Posted by: Gern Blanston (May 19, 2016 06:48PM)
Is Lloyd Barnes an actual performing magician? This is a genuine question.
Message: Posted by: KazMagic (Feb 18, 2018 10:33PM)
I really should have asked for a refund with Change. I regret myself.
Message: Posted by: KazMagic (Feb 18, 2018 10:36PM)
[quote]On May 20, 2016, Gern Blanston wrote:
Is Lloyd Barnes an actual performing magician? This is a genuine question. [/quote]

don't think so. He rarely uploads vids of him performing magic to real spectators.