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Topic: Phantom by Peter Eggink
Message: Posted by: FrankieF (Aug 25, 2015 12:06AM)
This looks pretty good. I'll wait for some reviews though.
http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S19940
Message: Posted by: Casshan (Aug 25, 2015 12:17AM)
Wow. This looks pretty insane. If the ad copy is that accurate, I'm highly interested.
Message: Posted by: Jack Poulin (Aug 25, 2015 06:22AM)
Can't wait to read reviews on this one !!! Looks incredible ! ... if practical and usable in real world situations, we have a winner.

Jack
Message: Posted by: Alex DLF (Aug 25, 2015 07:21AM)
Yes, definately looks very interesting :)

Should have mine asap ^^
Message: Posted by: Jack Poulin (Aug 25, 2015 02:31PM)
Alex DLF, let us know what you think as soon as you receive it, I'm very curious about that one.

Jack
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Aug 25, 2015 03:33PM)
Look's cool,will see after some good ole honest review's.
Message: Posted by: Cole Gross (Aug 25, 2015 03:36PM)
Phantom is crazy. Peter Eggink has killed it with this product.

Wanted to let you all know there is an incredible coin retention vanish that is taught with this in addition to the card and bottle routines that are shown in the video.

All borrowed items makes this even better!

Hocus Pocus has it available for Preorder here:
http://www.hocus-pocus.com/magicshop/?p=31252

Cole
Message: Posted by: Saturn UK (Aug 25, 2015 04:48PM)
I'm always interested in Peter's work so I can't wait to see this, its due out next week.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Aug 25, 2015 04:54PM)
I shall definitely wait for reviews on this one.
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Aug 25, 2015 05:28PM)
The gimmick for this is very, very clever!

There seems to be a run of very good releases at the moment...

MoM will have this shipping from the UK, and I'll be having one myself

Dominic
Message: Posted by: FrankieF (Aug 25, 2015 11:04PM)
How long do the gimmicks last?
Message: Posted by: Jack Poulin (Aug 25, 2015 11:14PM)
Is it possible to use it in the middle of a set or do we have to begin with it ? Is there any clean off necessary ? How about the "impromptuness" of it ? Any angle problem ?

Thanks

Jack
Message: Posted by: SlipperySnake (Aug 26, 2015 02:36AM)
[quote]On Aug 25, 2015, Dominic Reyes wrote:
The gimmick for this is very, very clever!


Dominic [/quote]

I found this about most of his stuff. Highly clever gimmicks. That cat has mad creative skills.
Message: Posted by: Alex DLF (Aug 26, 2015 08:51AM)
Mine has been shipped by Mr. The creator himself !

Will let you know when it arrives :)

I've never been disappinted by Mr. EGGINK !
Message: Posted by: Peter Eggink (Aug 26, 2015 11:43AM)
Thanks everybody for the initial interest! Phantom is a really cool utility device that can do LOTS of things and I'm sure you're going to love the gimmick :)
Just to let everybody know, I'm NOT pre-selling Phantom -I shipped Alex a review unit...so you should contact your local dealer if you'd like to get hold of a copy. All units have been shipped to Murphy's today so it'll be available mid next week.

Thanks for the support!

Peter
Message: Posted by: mikenewman (Aug 26, 2015 01:40PM)
Peter,
Good to "see" you here...

Care to answer some of the excellent questions above?
Message: Posted by: dman11 (Aug 26, 2015 07:11PM)
Streaming tutorial? I'm out, not a fan of having to be logged in somewhere to watch a video
Message: Posted by: Ceierry (Aug 26, 2015 07:22PM)
Dominic, are you going to do a special deal for subscribers? ;)
Message: Posted by: daniltan (Aug 26, 2015 07:26PM)
[quote]On Aug 27, 2015, dman11 wrote:
Streaming tutorial? I'm out, not a fan of having to be logged in somewhere to watch a video [/quote]
Well, I hope this comes with streaming tutorial. So there's a chance penguin can send it with flat-packed.
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Aug 27, 2015 02:27AM)
[quote]On Aug 26, 2015, Ceierry wrote:
Dominic, are you going to do a special deal for subscribers? ;) [/quote]

Hi Ceierry
Normally I would, but I've sent out a lot of emails this month, about revolution, cloud 9, a thought well stolen, and cube 3
Because of that, I was actually going to pass on helping with Phantom, until a video chat about phantom showed me the error of my ways.

The emailing rate was too spammy in my opinion. :/ It's hard as there's been some great stuff all released at the same time..

I do want to look after MC readers though, so shoot me a PM or drop an email to the shop and I'll give you a special deal code.
I won't be doing a mass mailing to our full subscriber lists though for a while.

Hope this helps
Dominic
Message: Posted by: Peter Eggink (Aug 27, 2015 04:49AM)
Thanks, mikenewman ;)

Hope to clear up a few questions here:

Durability: The gimmick is VERY well made. With proper use it'll last almost forever. I can't see this gimmick wear out easily unless you go crazy and out of your way, and want it to break.

Angles: As for angles, I would say that the routines offered with Phantom are "angle proof", only with one specific effect you'll want to be "aware" of a certain aspect which is nothing major at all in terms of angle issues or practicality.

Practicality: This is designed to be a worker. Yes, you can easily perform this ANYWHERE in your act: in the middle, end or beginning. No set-up or awkward unnatural handlings here.

The possibilities are only limited by your imagination -the more creative you are the more effects you're able to create using this gimmick!

Let me know if you have any questions and I do my best to answer them the best I can.

Peter
Message: Posted by: Jack Poulin (Aug 27, 2015 10:34AM)
Thanks Peter, you answered all my questions without forgetting any !! :)

I wish you a big success with your latest creation. Can't wait to test it in the field.

Best regards

Jack
Message: Posted by: mikenewman (Aug 27, 2015 11:04AM)
[quote]On Aug 27, 2015, Peter Eggink wrote:
Thanks, mikenewman ;)

Hope to clear up a few questions here:

Durability: The gimmick is VERY well made. With proper use it'll last almost forever. I can't see this gimmick wear out easily unless you go crazy and out of your way, and want it to break.

Angles: As for angles, I would say that the routines offered with Phantom are "angle proof", only with one specific effect you'll want to be "aware" of a certain aspect which is nothing major at all in terms of angle issues or practicality.

Practicality: This is designed to be a worker. Yes, you can easily perform this ANYWHERE in your act: in the middle, end or beginning. No set-up or awkward unnatural handlings here.

The possibilities are only limited by your imagination -the more creative you are the more effects you're able to create using this gimmick!

Let me know if you have any questions and I do my best to answer them the best I can.

Peter [/quote]


I have "known" you for a long time Peter, I knew you would answer... :)
Still using Ghost Tag, it still works great! Teens actaully enjoy it the most. And older kids (6-12), so I guess I should say 'All the kids are enjoying it'!

Anyways,
This looks great! I have had a few "haunted" decks, but this looks and sounds great.
On my list....

Thanks again for your responses, we all appreciate it

Mike
Message: Posted by: dman11 (Aug 27, 2015 11:07AM)
[quote]On Aug 26, 2015, daniltan wrote:
[quote]On Aug 27, 2015, dman11 wrote:
Streaming tutorial? I'm out, not a fan of having to be logged in somewhere to watch a video [/quote]
Well, I hope this comes with streaming tutorial. So there's a chance penguin can send it with flat-packed. [/quote]


I understand your point, but it should be downloadable not just a stream
Message: Posted by: paw (Aug 27, 2015 02:03PM)
Hey Guys -
Patrick From Murphy's here.

I think this is one of those products that everyone is going to want once they know how it works. It's basically self working, you can apply it to so many different routines/effects.

Borrowed items? no problem! no body hook-ups, etc. this is really a cool 007 type thing.

Great work Peter!

p
Message: Posted by: daniltan (Aug 27, 2015 11:42PM)
[quote]On Aug 27, 2015, dman11 wrote:
[quote]On Aug 26, 2015, daniltan wrote:
[quote]On Aug 27, 2015, dman11 wrote:
Streaming tutorial? I'm out, not a fan of having to be logged in somewhere to watch a video [/quote]
Well, I hope this comes with streaming tutorial. So there's a chance penguin can send it with flat-packed. [/quote]


I understand your point, but it should be downloadable not just a stream [/quote]
Yes, I agree. It should be downloadable too.
Message: Posted by: markhitton (Aug 28, 2015 06:37AM)
No electronic ? :hotcoffee:
Message: Posted by: Jack Poulin (Aug 29, 2015 07:59AM)
Can't wait to read the first impression/review on it ... I'm very curious about the "get ready" to make these miracles happen, but since we're talking about Peter Eggink here, I'm pretty confident.

Jack
Message: Posted by: markhitton (Aug 29, 2015 08:20AM)
Wait for reviews :hotcoffee:
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Aug 29, 2015 10:43AM)
[quote]On Aug 27, 2015, paw wrote:
Hey Guys -
Patrick From Murphy's here.

I think this is one of those products that everyone is going to want once they know how it works. It's basically self working, you can apply it to so many different routines/effects.

Borrowed items? no problem! no body hook-ups, etc. this is really a cool 007 type thing.

Great work Peter!

p [/quote]
Patrick is spot on here. Even if you play with magic for your own personal fun and never perform, you will love the gimmick, it's genius. If you do perform, then I'm sure you will be using this at gigs!
Message: Posted by: FrankieF (Aug 29, 2015 06:59PM)
Well I put in my pre-order, well see how this turns out.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Aug 29, 2015 07:52PM)
Me too - but its not preorder anymore.... yay! I am keeping my hopes up... it looks great on the video
Message: Posted by: James Conti (Aug 30, 2015 06:09AM)
So! Phantom! God, the trailer got me excited. I was lucky enough to have Peter send me a unit, and in the meanwhile, get to check out the streaming/downloadable tutorial video that accompanies the gimmick. And my initial thoughts are - this is AWESOME!

The gimmick hides in plain sight and would never be picked up on my the spectator. It is a very James Bond style utility which allows you to really perform those classic gimmicked card effects with a borrowed and examinable pack of cards. You start and end clean and you can hand the deck straight to the spectator to examine to their hearts content. It looks like it should last for almost forever with due care, however I will comment on the quality of the gimmick when I receive it (not that I doubt it's quality).

The download goes over a few ideas using this gimmick. There is a rising card, in which a card is selected, signed and returned into the deck, which is then placed in the box. Then under your complete control, the card rises out of the pack, slowly and beautifully. You are then completely clean and can hand out the card, deck and box out for examination.

Next was a haunted pack, which I absolutely loved. The pack is placed onto your palm and with no finger movements, the pack cuts slowly to the selected card.

Next was the Genie in a Bottle effect, in which a borrowed and signed bottle unscrews itself and falls to the floor. I loved this abastract effect, it is unexpected and you could really play this up to be huge and spiritual (if that's your thing). Once again, you end completely clean and can give the bottle right back to the spectator.

Also covered on the DVD, is a way to vanish a coin (or any other small object) using the gimmick.

The download is very well produced and Peter teaches everything clearly and methodically, including recaps after the explanation of each effect. Absolutely no issues here.

So if you are on the fence, I would say go for it. This is one of the coolest methods I have seen in a while, and you can get crazy creative with this. So James Bond, so usable and so darn sneaky!

I will post my video review, complete with performances, when I receive my unit. I hope this helped some people out contemplating the purchase of Phantom :)

- James
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Aug 30, 2015 06:49AM)
Thank you James. Sounds very good indeed.
Message: Posted by: daniltan (Aug 30, 2015 10:11AM)
[quote]Next was the Genie in a Bottle effect, in which a borrowed and signed bottle unscrews itself and falls to the floor. I loved this abastract effect, it is unexpected and you could really play this up to be huge and spiritual (if that's your thing). Once again, you end completely clean and can give the bottle right back to the spectator.
[/quote]

Imagine using this and smoke suddenly appear from inside the bottle after the cap is open.. And then you reach the smoke and take the spec's signed card from the smoke. Hmm..
Message: Posted by: Mejais (Aug 30, 2015 11:56AM)
Do you need some time for the setup?
Message: Posted by: James Conti (Aug 30, 2015 05:39PM)
[quote]On Aug 30, 2015, Mejais wrote:
Do you need some time for the setup? [/quote]

Nope, set up is done right in front of the spectator and its invisible.
Message: Posted by: Jack Poulin (Aug 30, 2015 08:26PM)
Mejais wrote:
Do you need some time for the setup?

James Conti wrote :
Nope, set up is done right in front of the spectator and its invisible


.... this starts to look too good to be true ... but I still have faith, since we're talking about Peter Eggink here. :)

Jack
Message: Posted by: Porturtle (Aug 30, 2015 09:53PM)
The video has me hooked. I will be picking one of these up soon. The bottle trick will be perfect for a spirit effect while doing walk around.
Message: Posted by: markhitton (Aug 31, 2015 08:50AM)
I do not understant if it is something I must apply to the objects or not
I am with finger on payp button :bubbly: :stircoffee:
Message: Posted by: markhitton (Aug 31, 2015 08:52AM)
The first time I saw the video I thought to a kind of milanesi ultracinese.
Message: Posted by: Mejais (Aug 31, 2015 08:53AM)
[quote]On Aug 30, 2015, Jack Poulin wrote:
Mejais wrote:
Do you need some time for the setup?

James Conti wrote :
Nope, set up is done right in front of the spectator and its invisible


.... this starts to look too good to be true ... but I still have faith, since we're talking about Peter Eggink here. :)

Jack [/quote]

you are right. I will definitly get my hands on this. Maybe ill wait for 2 more reviews just in case, but this looks awesome.
Message: Posted by: markhitton (Aug 31, 2015 08:53AM)
Very nice job peter I really like the spinning bottle :hotcoffee:
Message: Posted by: Jack Poulin (Aug 31, 2015 12:20PM)
Hello Peter/James, can you tell us if it is "knacky"please ? ... I mean, how much practice does it take to perform it perfectly as Peter did on the video ?

Jack
Message: Posted by: markhitton (Aug 31, 2015 02:09PM)
Is the gimmick bulky or very confortable to use?
Is pocket size ?
:hotcoffee:
Message: Posted by: EZrhythm (Aug 31, 2015 02:40PM)
[quote]On Aug 31, 2015, Jack Poulin wrote:
Hello Peter/James, can you tell us if it is "knacky"please ? ... I mean, how much practice does it take to perform it perfectly as Peter did on the video ?

Jack [/quote]

Dominic has mentioned that it is basically self working. I would say that means it doesn't qualify for the knacky category. :jump:
Message: Posted by: Burf (Aug 31, 2015 06:58PM)
This looks really good - I HAVE to get one......
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Aug 31, 2015 08:11PM)
Well in the penguin packing your order vid I hit a glimpse of it - looks interesting..... Let you know my thoughts once I get it....
Message: Posted by: MichalMystic (Aug 31, 2015 08:57PM)
Yep this looks pretty killer. Im almost ready to hit the order button but wait for maybe a few more reviews..
Message: Posted by: Jack Poulin (Aug 31, 2015 09:16PM)
EZ rhytm wrote : Dominic has mentioned that it is basically self working. I would say that means it doesn't qualify for the knacky category. :)

... I know ... I know ... lol ... my mistake ... you're right, but if we're talking about an Ultracinese (I really don't know, I'm using Ultracinese as an exemple to illustrate my point) gimmick type here, it can be qualified as "almost self working" when you get the knack of it (no "move" is necessary but it is still kind of knacky) but on the other hand, it is not totally a sure fire thing because it was kind of hard to make it work 100% of the time (at least for me) ... let's wait and see now ... I'm sure we won't be disappointed. :) :)

Jack
Message: Posted by: MagicBrent (Aug 31, 2015 09:19PM)
Could this work with a 2 liter plastic bottle? I could see that opening the arc of presenting to a group
Message: Posted by: Suux88 (Aug 31, 2015 11:15PM)
Sleeves or clothing requirements?
Message: Posted by: James Conti (Sep 1, 2015 01:38AM)
[quote]On Sep 1, 2015, Suux88 wrote:
Sleeves or clothing requirements? [/quote]

Nope :)
Message: Posted by: M Pitcher (Sep 1, 2015 10:02AM)
Really anxious to receive mine :yippee:

Will post my initial thoughts once it hits the doormat. This looks and sounds fantastic!

Does this work with bridge size playing cards as well?

M P
Message: Posted by: magicman29 (Sep 1, 2015 11:25AM)
Does the gimmick make toast?

Kieran
Message: Posted by: Mark8infiniti (Sep 1, 2015 12:44PM)
Excuse me, can someone please tell me if the gimmick will double my income? I don't think that has been mentioned by anyone? I'LL WAIT FOR MORE REVIEWS THEN.
Message: Posted by: ReviewerMaster (Sep 1, 2015 12:48PM)
Peter has great track record on releasing practical stuff. Look forward to get this.
Message: Posted by: markhitton (Sep 1, 2015 03:13PM)
More reviews are appreciated :hotcoffee:
Message: Posted by: markhitton (Sep 1, 2015 03:13PM)
Something more about the gimmick :stircoffee:
Message: Posted by: Merlin (Sep 1, 2015 05:53PM)
[quote]On Sep 1, 2015, magicmarkworldwide2 wrote:
Excuse me, can someone please tell me if the gimmick will double my income? I don't think that has been mentioned by anyone? I'LL WAIT FOR MORE REVIEWS THEN. [/quote]

I doubt if anybody can answer that unless you post your income.
Message: Posted by: Dazzler UK (Sep 1, 2015 06:13PM)
Combining the 'Genie in a bottle' effect with Radioactive by Titanas would allow you to play some creepy evp recordings through an FM radio on a frequency with just static or 'white noise' being heard in the background. All this before/after a supposed spirit was trapped in a bottle and realeased itself infront of everyone. Then using EVP by Alan Rorrison you could use a specs phone to record more creepy evps that they could keep, all in a seance type setting with a few specs. Or is this just too cruel lol. Best for Halloween perhaps :-)
Message: Posted by: Ceierry (Sep 1, 2015 06:20PM)
[quote]On Sep 1, 2015, Dazzler UK wrote:
Combining the 'Genie in a bottle' effect with Radioactive by Titanas would allow you to play some creepy evp recordings through an FM radio on a frequency with just static or 'white noise' being heard in the background. All this before/after a supposed spirit was trapped in a bottle and realeased itself infront of everyone. Then using EVP by Alan Rorrison you could use a specs phone to record more creepy evps that they could keep, all in a seance type setting with a few specs. Or is this just too cruel lol. Best for Halloween perhaps :-) [/quote]


Less is more :)
Message: Posted by: daniltan (Sep 1, 2015 07:58PM)
Just ordered this through HP. My first option is Penguin Flat-packed for free shipping-- but, alas this is not one of them. Just when I was gonna give up on this, HP free worldwide shipping arise. Yay!
Message: Posted by: Dazzler UK (Sep 2, 2015 01:19AM)
[quote]On Sep 2, 2015, Ceierry wrote

Less is more :) [/quote]


Yeah you're probably right. Would be fun though. I could probably drag the 3 effects out over a nice period of time tho so it wouldnt be spooky overload in 5 mins :-)
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 2, 2015 01:33AM)
[quote]On Sep 1, 2015, Dazzler UK wrote:
Combining the 'Genie in a bottle' effect with Radioactive by Titanas would allow you to play some creepy evp recordings through an FM radio on a frequency with just static or 'white noise' being heard in the background. All this before/after a supposed spirit was trapped in a bottle and realeased itself infront of everyone. Then using EVP by Alan Rorrison you could use a specs phone to record more creepy evps that they could keep, all in a seance type setting with a few specs. Or is this just too cruel lol. Best for Halloween perhaps :-) [/quote]

Indeed. And Haloween falls on Fri 13th this year. First time for 666 years apparently. Very spooky. :wow:
Message: Posted by: markhitton (Sep 2, 2015 09:13AM)
Would be nice to have much more info on the gimmick.
How do you apply to the objects?
Is it necessary some misdirection to use it or is it totally invisible?
Do I need to recharge or reload it for another effect?
Im deciding to buy but I have the strange fear this is something I already use adapted to these 3 new effects.
Is there a demo video where it is possible to see a live demo? :hotcoffee:
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Sep 2, 2015 12:53PM)
[quote]On Aug 26, 2015, Alex DLF wrote:
Mine has been shipped by Mr. The creator himself !

Will let you know when it arrives :)
[/quote]

Have you received the package? If so, your initial thoughts please.

Thank you.

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: Ceierry (Sep 2, 2015 01:26PM)
The gimmick is very clever and it's definetely a 007 Jams Bond Gadget.

Saw the video instructions and I'm amazed by the gimmick, just saw the Rising Card and it's something I'll try in real world for sure!

I'll continue to watch the video and will post my thoughts afterwards.

The gimmick gives you a lot of possibilities and don't be limited for the effects provided, you'll find another applications for sure!
Message: Posted by: markhitton (Sep 2, 2015 01:55PM)
Hi my friend nice to see you here :hotcoffee: :cheers:
Message: Posted by: FrankieF (Sep 2, 2015 02:28PM)
Heres an honest review. Yes it is a very cool Gadget/ Gimmick, but that's all. It's for magicians who want a new toy. The ad copy is not exactly 100% true and this is not even close to practical. I could never rely on this. Also the handling of the gimmick is so awkward. I'm so disappointed in this product I'm going to return it and get my money back.
Message: Posted by: Jack Poulin (Sep 2, 2015 02:36PM)
FrankieF wrote : Heres an honest review. Yes it is a very cool Gadget/ Gimmick, but that's all. It's for magicians who want a new toy. The ad copy is not exactly 100% true and this is not even close to practical. I could never rely on this. Also the handling of the gimmick is so awkward. I'm so disappointed in this product I'm going to return it and get my money back.


:( ... aouch ... let's hope that some other honest reviews said otherwise ... my feeling was that it was too good to be true, I really wished I was wrong ... maybe I was, I will read more reviews before I decide to buy or not.

Jack
Message: Posted by: EZrhythm (Sep 2, 2015 02:47PM)
[quote]On Sep 2, 2015, FrankieF wrote:
Heres an honest review. Yes it is a very cool Gadget/ Gimmick, but that's all. It's for magicians who want a new toy. The ad copy is not exactly 100% true and this is not even close to practical. I could never rely on this. Also the handling of the gimmick is so awkward. I'm so disappointed in this product I'm going to return it and get my money back. [/quote]

This "review" if someone would call it that sounds suspect without more detail. In what way is the ad copy not 100% correct? In what way is it not close to being practical? Why could you never rely on this? How is the handling awkward? Honestly we would need more details before such a review could be taken with more than a grain of salt.
Message: Posted by: markhitton (Sep 2, 2015 03:22PM)
It was better for sure to see a real world video,not just frames where everything seems miracoulous :stircoffee:
Message: Posted by: markhitton (Sep 2, 2015 03:38PM)
[quote]On Sep 2, 2015, FrankieF wrote:
Heres an honest review. Yes it is a very cool Gadget/ Gimmick, but that's all. It's for magicians who want a new toy. The ad copy is not exactly 100% true and this is not even close to practical. I could never rely on this. Also the handling of the gimmick is so awkward. I'm so disappointed in this product I'm going to return it and get my money back. [/quote]

:worry: :hotcoffee:
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Sep 2, 2015 05:22PM)
[quote]On Sep 2, 2015, EZrhythm wrote:
[quote]On Sep 2, 2015, FrankieF wrote:
Heres an honest review. Yes it is a very cool Gadget/ Gimmick, but that's all. It's for magicians who want a new toy. The ad copy is not exactly 100% true and this is not even close to practical. I could never rely on this. Also the handling of the gimmick is so awkward. I'm so disappointed in this product I'm going to return it and get my money back. [/quote]

This "review" if someone would call it that sounds suspect without more detail. In what way is the ad copy not 100% correct? In what way is it not close to being practical? Why could you never rely on this? How is the handling awkward? Honestly we would need more details before such a review could be taken with more than a grain of salt. [/quote]

I haven't finished watching the video yet but I can see some people complaining about the ad copy since "no invisible thread / no elastics" is technically true but some may choose to disagree. Don't want to say any more to protect the method. Will post more thoughts once I have had a chance to finish the video and play around with it.
Message: Posted by: FrankieF (Sep 2, 2015 07:25PM)
[quote]On Sep 2, 2015, EZrhythm wrote:
[quote]On Sep 2, 2015, FrankieF wrote:
Heres an honest review. Yes it is a very cool Gadget/ Gimmick, but that's all. It's for magicians who want a new toy. The ad copy is not exactly 100% true and this is not even close to practical. I could never rely on this. Also the handling of the gimmick is so awkward. I'm so disappointed in this product I'm going to return it and get my money back. [/quote]

This "review" if someone would call it that sounds suspect without more detail. In what way is the ad copy not 100% correct? In what way is it not close to being practical? Why could you never rely on this? How is the handling awkward? Honestly we would need more details before such a review could be taken with more than a grain of salt. [/quote]

I can't say too much with out revealing the method, but I'll give you a hint it's not practical because it's simply just not practical in the real world. The method is not reliable. The handling just feels awkward. Why did you get so offended and angry?
Message: Posted by: FrankieF (Sep 2, 2015 07:29PM)
Also it sounds like TuneHV understands what I mean.
Message: Posted by: daniltan (Sep 2, 2015 08:05PM)
[quote]On Sep 3, 2015, FrankieF wrote:
Also it sounds like TuneHV understands what I mean. [/quote]

I'm still waiting for my video link at the moment. You're saying the gimmick is not practical. But someone else said it's invisible and you can set it up in front of audiences. How can it's not practical then? You don't have to answer this. Since, I'll watch it sooner or later. I'm just confuse. That's all.
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Sep 2, 2015 08:47PM)
OK, I have had some time to watch the video and play with the gimmick. Its definitely super clever and a great idea, but at least in my experience, I cannot get this to work properly. Clearly it seems to work fine for Peter, so maybe its just me, or possibly that's what FrankieF is referring to as well as far as practicality. I really want to like this because its a cool gimmick and very smart, but I cant get the effects to work reliably... I really cant explain much more as to the issues I'm having because it will tip the method.

Also, the way the trailer is shot leads a purchaser to believe there is nothing in your hands when the magic happens- that's not true. Is it justified? I guess so, but it does feel awkward for me to hold the prop in that manner- it may look fine to a spectator, but it feels really unnatural.
Message: Posted by: mikenewman (Sep 2, 2015 09:45PM)
I can't get to the video download/stream....
And I agree so far even without seeing the explanation that I don't like this at all.

The ad copy is very misleading in my opinion.

I will wait until I can get to the download though. Maybe it will inspire and get me excited.
Message: Posted by: mikenewman (Sep 2, 2015 09:56PM)
I have tried on my phone and my laptop. Still can't get to the instructions...

I'm done.

I am returning this for sure.

The add copy has two things that are not true; and possible 3 depending on your opinion.

I am not going to spell it out, but I am really sad that this got released with the ad copy written the way it is.
Shame on Murphy's for endorsing this and distributing it.

Sorry Peter, but this is not what I expected from you and I can't sit quiet and let others spend their hard earned money on this one.

I highly regret my purchase already.

As far as the instructions not being available, I understand that stuff happens. But this costs $35!
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Sep 2, 2015 10:21PM)
The link works for the instructions, I just double checked. not sure what is giving you trouble
Message: Posted by: mikenewman (Sep 2, 2015 10:24PM)
Weird....
I will send you a PM if you don't mind, I have tried like 10 times now.

Thanks for checking though.
Message: Posted by: mikenewman (Sep 2, 2015 10:30PM)
So....
If you purchase this, do not type the link as it says on the back of the package, you need to type it in all lowercase.

Maybe this is common knowledge?

Oh well, it worked thanks to TuneHV PM.

I will look it through now, just because.
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Sep 3, 2015 12:10AM)
Hmm, so Peter's ad is playing with words. I like the way TuneHV tries to explain the Ad copy, and may I please quote:-

[quote]On Sep 2, 2015, TuneHV wrote:

[b]"no invisible thread / no elastics" is technically true but some may choose to disagree[/b].
[/quote]

So it's a NO - NO and a YES - YES at the same time. With that statement one is sure that Phantom uses a thread in some form or another. Oh, but where was the doubt? ;)

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 3, 2015 12:37AM)
Another subpar release from Eggink. :mad:
Message: Posted by: Wardy (Sep 3, 2015 12:41AM)
I agree that the copy was maybe misleading, but honestly, how else did you think it was going to be achieved? Actual magic? I got it for the bottle sequence which I can see playing very strongly. I'll muck around with it for the next day or so and leave a review after I've given it 8-10 hours practice. The problem here a lot of the time is that people try it for 10 mins and feel disappointed. Reminds me of 95% of my guitar students who expect to be able to play like Slash or Hendrix after owning a guitar for 1 week and practicing 15 mins a day. I honestly don't see how anyone could have played around with this long enough so far to be disappointed. To be continued....
Message: Posted by: markhitton (Sep 3, 2015 01:20AM)
[quote]On Sep 3, 2015, Wardy wrote:
I agree that the copy was maybe misleading, but honestly, how else did you think it was going to be achieved? Actual magic? I got it for the bottle sequence which I can see playing very strongly. I'll muck around with it for the next day or so and leave a review after I've given it 8-10 hours practice. The problem here a lot of the time is that people try it for 10 mins and feel disappointed. Reminds me of 95% of my guitar students who expect to be able to play like Slash or Hendrix after owning a guitar for 1 week and practicing 15 mins a day. I honestly don't see how anyone could have played around with this long enough so far to be disappointed. To be continued.... [/quote]

Honestly I do not accept this playing with words and video editing operation.
Perhaps one can pay for a new method and receive a slight modification of something already seen?
No thread means no thread or if we play with words everything is right.
A bit sad 😯....hope the reviewers are wrong
Message: Posted by: Dazzler UK (Sep 3, 2015 02:01AM)
I ordered this and was looking forward to recieving. Now I'm thinking I may be dissapointed :-(
Message: Posted by: M Pitcher (Sep 3, 2015 02:29AM)
Just finished watching the video and have to say I'm quite impressed. Very clever 007 type of gimmick indeed and can't see anybody being disappointed with this unless you expect REAL miracles. Like every magic trick it needs practise to make perfect but noting knuckle busting at all.

Will post my personal experience in the next couple of days.

So far, LOVE it!

M P
Message: Posted by: Wardy (Sep 3, 2015 02:39AM)
Honestly I do not accept this playing with words and video editing operation.
Perhaps one can pay for a new method and receive a slight modification of something already seen?
No thread means no thread or if we play with words everything is right.
A bit sad 😯....hope the reviewers are wrong [/quote]


But how do you think it works when you watch it? Anyone with a few years experience can tell there's only one or two ways to do it.If the ad copy told you exactly how it was done you wouldn't buy it and you'd simply devise your own method.There's too many questions on these forums as is. Someone asked the other day if a certain trick would double their income!I mean that's one of the most moronic questions ever asked!! If you buy it and specs continually devise the method, then I would say that's cause for a refund. But if the method/gimmick actually works, and this is a clever gimmick, then sit back and enjoy the ride. I'll be testing this tonight on some 'grabby' type friends, so if it passes by them I'm confident the average layman won't catch on. As usual, the less people that buy this the better, more fun for me and my audience.
Message: Posted by: EZrhythm (Sep 3, 2015 02:50AM)
[quote]On Sep 2, 2015, FrankieF wrote:
[quote]On Sep 2, 2015, EZrhythm wrote:
[quote]On Sep 2, 2015, FrankieF wrote:
Heres an honest review. Yes it is a very cool Gadget/ Gimmick, but that's all. It's for magicians who want a new toy. The ad copy is not exactly 100% true and this is not even close to practical. I could never rely on this. Also the handling of the gimmick is so awkward. I'm so disappointed in this product I'm going to return it and get my money back. [/quote]

This "review" if someone would call it that sounds suspect without more detail. In what way is the ad copy not 100% correct? In what way is it not close to being practical? Why could you never rely on this? How is the handling awkward? Honestly we would need more details before such a review could be taken with more than a grain of salt. [/quote]

I can't say too much with out revealing the method, but I'll give you a hint it's not practical because it's simply just not practical in the real world. The method is not reliable. The handling just feels awkward. Why did you get so offended and angry? [/quote]

My apologies, I didn't intend to be taken as offended nor angry. Thank You for the further clarification. Do you feel that the product would improve with patience and practice or maybe even with further tips or instruction or is it beyond hopeless?
Message: Posted by: markhitton (Sep 3, 2015 03:14AM)
[quote]On Sep 3, 2015, Wardy wrote:
Honestly I do not accept this playing with words and video editing operation.
Perhaps one can pay for a new method and receive a slight modification of something already seen?
No thread means no thread or if we play with words everything is right.
A bit sad 😯....hope the reviewers are wrong [/quote]


But how do you think it works when you watch it? Anyone with a few years experience can tell there's only one or two ways to do it.If the ad copy told you exactly how it was done you wouldn't buy it and you'd simply devise your own method.There's too many questions on these forums as is. Someone asked the other day if a certain trick would double their income!I mean that's one of the most moronic questions ever asked!! If you buy it and specs continually devise the method, then I would say that's cause for a refund. But if the method/gimmick actually works, and this is a clever gimmick, then sit back and enjoy the ride. I'll be testing this tonight on some 'grabby' type friends, so if it passes by them I'm confident the average layman won't catch on. As usual, the less people that buy this the better, more fun for me and my audience. [/quote]


As veteran you appear to me as a new user.
I disagree with your point of view.
I stop here
Enjoy with your great gimmick



:hotcoffee:
Message: Posted by: Wardy (Sep 3, 2015 05:03AM)
Hahaha congratulations on your fantastic plastic title, you must be so proud!Relax,mate, it's just my opinion so far. Believe me, if this can't do what's required I'll be asking for my money back. I just don't see how anyone has had enough time to work with this properly. Over and out.
Message: Posted by: Dazzler UK (Sep 3, 2015 05:26AM)
Just because someone is a new member does not mean they are new to magic. Just saying!
Message: Posted by: Paul S Wingham (Sep 3, 2015 06:04AM)
[quote]On Sep 3, 2015, Wardy wrote:
Honestly I do not accept this playing with words and video editing operation.
Perhaps one can pay for a new method and receive a slight modification of something already seen?
No thread means no thread or if we play with words everything is right.
A bit sad 😯....hope the reviewers are wrong [/quote]


But how do you think it works when you watch it? Anyone with a few years experience can tell there's only one or two ways to do it.If the ad copy told you exactly how it was done you wouldn't buy it and you'd simply devise your own method.There's too many questions on these forums as is. Someone asked the other day if a certain trick would double their income!I mean that's one of the most moronic questions ever asked!! If you buy it and specs continually devise the method, then I would say that's cause for a refund. But if the method/gimmick actually works, and this is a clever gimmick, then sit back and enjoy the ride. I'll be testing this tonight on some 'grabby' type friends, so if it passes by them I'm confident the average layman won't catch on. As usual, the less people that buy this the better, more fun for me and my audience. [/quote]

I think the simple answer is; we don't know how its done or why would we buy it? That doesn't mean a creator can at worst lie and at best be very economical with the truth and say "no threads and no elastic" just to throw people off the scent does it? It may be the best trick in the world but why say something isn't present if it is; even in a round about way.

It feels to me like not a week passes where there isn't controversy surrounding a new release. misleading ad wording and dubious trailers.
Message: Posted by: daniltan (Sep 3, 2015 06:17AM)
I just hope mine arrive soon. Can't wait to see it.. IMO, the review so far is still uncertain. Can't really tell what's going on with the gimmick. My only concern is TuneHV posted that his gimmick is not working like what he saw on the video. Can someone else confirm about this? Thank you.
Message: Posted by: Peter Eggink (Sep 3, 2015 06:35AM)
Hi Everybody,

First off, thanks for all the feedback -It's much appreciated.

For those that experience some issues of some sort with one of the Phantom effects, please contact me so I can assist you to easily resolve these. My e-mail is: info@peter-eggink.com I'm more than happy to help where I can. The gimmick is well made and properly tested by myself. It delivers exactly what it promises so most likely there could be some user issues. Again, drop me a line so I can help. Also, I'm planning to shoot a full performance video over there weekend for those who are on the fence.

Thanks, and have a great weekend!

Peter
Message: Posted by: markhitton (Sep 3, 2015 06:44AM)
[quote]On Sep 3, 2015, Dazzler UK wrote:
Just because someone is a new member does not mean they are new to magic. Just saying! [/quote]

You re right means something else
:stircoffee:
Message: Posted by: markhitton (Sep 3, 2015 06:46AM)
Looking for new video ...thanks :hotcoffee:
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Sep 3, 2015 08:29AM)
Thanks Peter - a full performance would be great
Message: Posted by: mikenewman (Sep 3, 2015 10:42AM)
I think that will help... the new video at least. Maybe?

The current demo is not fair at all, in my opinion. It will peak interest (obvously) and get people like me to jump on it... Which I will NEVER do again!

Yes, I 100% know that there is a freaking gimmick. Obviously only a few ways to do this. But, if I knew which one in advance, I would have passed on this. So again, not fair.

This is hard and I know there will be some that agree with me and some that don't. Glad I live in a place where I can voice my opinion.


BUT,
In order to do this as you see in the demo, you will have to hold something. You can NOT have empty hands as the demo clearly leads you to believe. And you can not appear to have empty hands. You can hide the gimmick VERY well though! And I agree that it is very 007ish. And great thinking on it. Just did a poor job on marketing it. Although, I fully understand that marketing will sell tricks and get the sales skyrocketing and then...... plummeting a few months later. I get it.


Yes, obviously the gimmick, which I agree 100% that they will not see. But.... I can't say much more.

And if you are the type of magician that doesn't like/care for your spectators signing the card for a rising card. Or signing the bottle? Well, you need to start caring...

The effect is very cool looking, but the handling is very awkward IMHO. And to do this, you need to have a marker. Not a big deal, but I know when I was deployed, I couldn't just go to a store and purchase one. It is 100% fair that Peter/Murphy's should say that you need to have a marker in order to make this work to your advantage and not bring attention to your "hands".

I don't want to seem as if I am piling onto Peter, I am not that kind of person.
The current demo led me to believe that I could do this with nothing in my hands. Not true.

And saying, No magnet, No Invisable Thread, No elastic.... that's where the aruments go either way.


For me, there are far too many other methods to do rising cards/haunted pack. Just my opinion, and this is not what I want.

I am selling mine on the Café' if anyone wants it.... after I post this.

*Note:
If my statments revel too much, so be it, and I apoligize. I still stand by my comments, and am not trying to harm Peter in any way.


Thanks
Mike
Message: Posted by: Dazzler UK (Sep 3, 2015 10:59AM)
Wow! Very honest of you appreciate it. But mine has landed already today, so will check it out later, but for some reason I'm not as excited as I was.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 3, 2015 11:09AM)
Return it Mike demanding a full refund.
Message: Posted by: mikenewman (Sep 3, 2015 12:01PM)
[quote]On Sep 3, 2015, pegasus wrote:
Return it Mike demanding a full refund. [/quote]


I have never asked for a refund.
That just changed today....
I asked and am waiting for a response.

This is kind of like buying a new and improved Thumb Tip... But you get it and find out you MUST wear a glove to use it. OK maybe a bad example...



I want to back out of this thread and end by saying:

Good luck to those that like this and to those that this fits your needs.

Phantom IS great thinking, and will last a lifetime (IMHO), and is a good quality device. Depending on your style and needs, it has great potential for YOU.

Good luck Peter and I hope that the new video will help everyone understand and appreciate the effect more if it fits their way of performing.

Off to find an invisible glove. :)

Mike
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (Sep 3, 2015 12:09PM)
Mine should be arriving today. Based off of what I've read thus far, I'm now morbidly curious to see what it is. Now I just need to buy the Examiner by PHP. I can have a theme act where every trick requires me to hold a marker in my hand while performing ;)
Message: Posted by: djefvulen (Sep 3, 2015 12:09PM)
Mine will arrive tomorrow or next week. I was also very excited to get it, now I'm not sure. I have a few useless gimmicks already - don't need another one. In what kind of situations would Phantom work best? Will it work for streetmagic? At work/in school? Is it impromptu? What about angles and is it best performed with only 1-2 people, or is a larger group better/worse? Will it be easier to perform close up, or at a distance?
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Sep 3, 2015 02:41PM)
I wouldn't get too high or low before you receive it. I've seen many products I've loved get trashed by a few commenters and then it be highly rated later and vice versa. This seems like it's going to be one of those divisive effects that people disagree on. Let's hope it's that and not a complete bust.
Message: Posted by: Dazzler UK (Sep 3, 2015 03:52PM)
Initial impression of this is that the handling doesn't look natural. A few of the comments I didn't want to hear have been spot on sadly :-(
Message: Posted by: M Pitcher (Sep 3, 2015 04:20PM)
After less then 10 min. practise with the gimmick I was able to to the rising card effect and works beautifully. Done with a borrowed deck this is pretty much killer. The way the gimmick is in play is both natural and motivated so don't see the big deal here.

M P
Message: Posted by: Dazzler UK (Sep 3, 2015 04:45PM)
I agree that the motivation and gimmick in play is natural just not the handling of the gimmick
Message: Posted by: rasmus (Sep 3, 2015 05:21PM)
I received this device and think, that I've allready seen a similar gimmick in one of peters other releases.

what can I say about this release? the demo video and the explanations are very well shot. perhaps something in the demo is missing?
Message: Posted by: Wardy (Sep 3, 2015 06:15PM)
Ok, so I bought this to perform Genie in a bottle only. Very disappointed after hours of mucking around and using different bottles. Signing the bottle is overkill to start with, and the fact that a spec must have a very specific bottle type kills this for me. I don't see me using this at all(already have enough card effects) and am trying to sort something out with Penguin regarding reimbursement, as this is the only purchase I have ever been truly disappointed with and can't adapt to my performance style. Hopefully other people will have more luck as it is a truly ingenious gimmick.
Message: Posted by: Wardy (Sep 3, 2015 06:22PM)
[quote]On Sep 3, 2015, markhitton wrote:
[quote]On Sep 3, 2015, Dazzler UK wrote:
Just because someone is a new member does not mean they are new to magic. Just saying! [/quote]

You re right means something else
:stircoffee: [/quote]

It means they've got better things to do than sit in a imaginary Café stirring imaginary coffee.
Message: Posted by: markhitton (Sep 4, 2015 12:26AM)
Nobody forces you to stay I'm just imaginary :hotcoffee:
Message: Posted by: markhitton (Sep 4, 2015 12:30AM)
Like your gimmick disappointment?
It works fine and its a new 007 kind method :spoon:
Message: Posted by: dynamite magic shop (Sep 4, 2015 02:57AM)
Hi,

we received our first batch yesterday, I watched the entire instructional video's which has FULL PERFORMANCES as the spectators would see it (including your secret handling of course) and I think it will be a great seller. That means that if we show it as Peter does it, people should buy easily. The pen is made very well, I only played with it for an hour but it will used for sure in the shop as a demo so we can test and test and test.....:)

Great Job Peter....I did post that yesterday already on Facebook.

Apart from the Phantom gimmick my opinion about produc-video's.

I agree there is a lot of editing nowadays in product-demo's and often close to the edge of being acceptable. I think it is fair however as the video exaclty shows what the SPECTATOR would see during a routine. You cannot misdirect a camera but you can misdirect a spectator so you have to overcome this part by editing maybe. Don't forget that these video's are meant to SELL products to magicians, in the past we could sell items by demoing them into our shop...that was WAY easier then with a video as people can watch it over and over again and are looking for methods instead of thinking about the EFFECT itself. Your goal is to ENTERTAIN people with an effect, NOT to present them with a PUZZLE they have to solve. These are two completely different ways of stepping into your acts and you will see the fooling will be way easier when you are entertaining as well :)

Enough for now!
Message: Posted by: Dazzler UK (Sep 4, 2015 03:15AM)
Its the fact that I already had this gimmick from one of Peter's previous releases that disappointed me. Thought I was getting something else. The gimmick is cool no denying it. But I don't want 2. I've requested a refund also.
Message: Posted by: FrankieF (Sep 4, 2015 04:26AM)
[quote]On Sep 3, 2015, EZrhythm wrote:
[quote]On Sep 2, 2015, FrankieF wrote:
[quote]On Sep 2, 2015, EZrhythm wrote:
[quote]On Sep 2, 2015, FrankieF wrote:
Heres an honest review. Yes it is a very cool Gadget/ Gimmick, but that's all. It's for magicians who want a new toy. The ad copy is not exactly 100% true and this is not even close to practical. I could never rely on this. Also the handling of the gimmick is so awkward. I'm so disappointed in this product I'm going to return it and get my money back. [/quote]

This "review" if someone would call it that sounds suspect without more detail. In what way is the ad copy not 100% correct? In what way is it not close to being practical? Why could you never rely on this? How is the handling awkward? Honestly we would need more details before such a review could be taken with more than a grain of salt. [/quote]

I can't say too much with out revealing the method, but I'll give you a hint it's not practical because it's simply just not practical in the real world. The method is not reliable. The handling just feels awkward. Why did you get so offended and angry? [/quote]

My apologies, I didn't intend to be taken as offended nor angry. Thank You for the further clarification. Do you feel that the product would improve with patience and practice or maybe even with further tips or instruction or is it beyond hopeless? [/quote]

No worries. Also I just feel like it's awkward to hold the gimmick in your hand while doing it. It's just not for me, the trailer doesn't really show him holding the gimmick while the animations are happening. ( The Gimmick is seen by the spectators but is "unsuspecting") Even if they could somehow improve it, it's just not for me, nor is it a worker.
Message: Posted by: Dazzler UK (Sep 4, 2015 04:54AM)
There will be 2 sets of opinions I think. Anyone who owns one of Peters previous releases maybe dissapointed when they recieve this. Anybody else who doesn't may love it in my opinion.
Message: Posted by: Peter Eggink (Sep 4, 2015 05:06AM)
Thanks for the comments, Rene!

Let me clear something up:

This is an adjusted/improved gimmick for an effect that I designed years ago. Phantom is a similar type of gimmick in its modus operandi but produces completely different effects due to the adjustments designed to do the effects related to Phantom. In other words, with the other gimmick you are committed to do just that effect and you're not able to perform any of the Phantom routines with it.

I'l be posting a full performance shortly...it's just a rough iPhone vid. but gives you the whole picture.

Thanks for all the feedback and have a wonderful weekend!

Peter
Message: Posted by: Dazzler UK (Sep 4, 2015 05:27AM)
Hi Peter its nothing personal. I have and use some of your other effects with great success. This release just wasnt for me that's all. So no hard feelings.
But I wish you well with it :-)
Message: Posted by: magicman29 (Sep 4, 2015 07:34AM)
[quote]On Sep 4, 2015, Dazzler UK wrote:
Hi Peter its nothing personal. I have and use some of your other effects with great success. This release just wasnt for me that's all. So no hard feelings.
But I wish you well with it :-) [/quote]

Hi dazzler, I'm thinking of getting this so maybe if you want you could sell it to me if the price is good?

Kieran
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Sep 4, 2015 05:16PM)
Can't decide what to do with my order. Purchased from Penguin before some of the negative reviews tumbled in. Now I can't decide whether to just ship it back unopened or try it and get stuck if I don't like it. I'm afraid my curiosity will get the better of my common sense. Hoping to see some more reviews before its decision time.
Message: Posted by: rosariorose9 (Sep 4, 2015 05:51PM)
[quote]On Sep 4, 2015, Slackerking wrote:
...Hoping to see some more reviews before its decision time. [/quote]

+1 I was also 'put off' a bit by the negative reviews. Interested to see what other forum members think...
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Sep 4, 2015 06:09PM)
[quote]On Sep 4, 2015, Slackerking wrote:
Can't decide what to do with my order. Purchased from Penguin before some of the negative reviews tumbled in. Now I can't decide whether to just ship it back unopened or try it and get stuck if I don't like it. I'm afraid my curiosity will get the better of my common sense. Hoping to see some more reviews before its decision time. [/quote]

The instructions are on the back of the package so you can check them out first, but it's not your "standard" packaging anyway so that won't be an issue
Message: Posted by: Mark8infiniti (Sep 5, 2015 09:27AM)
Ah jeez... this came today..... sorry guys... it's horrible.

Just... there is NO WAY on earth I'm gonna be messing around with something like this at gigs... it is so problematic.... the fact alone that a blob of wax is going into the middle of your deck means cards are going to get stuck together, rise up together, cut together... it's a total mess. It is indeed totally knacky and inconsistent.... Orginally I was hoping for something similar to Peter's Original 'Haunted' but with more control ánd versatility... this is not it... it creates so so many problems. This was put out just for the SAKE of being able to use someone's borrowed deck... who cares?? Who on earth carries a deck on them anyway? Which spectators have decks of cards? Totally unnecessary.

I just cannot be doing with this..., literally a single elastic band would be better in achieving this effect.... I don't know why I bothered to buy it... must have more money than sense.


We all know Peter is a good guy and an extremely talented creator. I have no qualms with him putting out something like this to try, but I am VERY DISSAPOINTED in the crafty way the gimmick pen is totally hidden from the trailer, cut out of shot... that is crafty and dishonest. To say the gimmick is invisible is also a severe play on words... advertising at it's very best. I cannot believe this wasn't made clear that the gimmick was hidden in a special pen... to me we HAVE TO LET buyers know this!!!! IT IS ALSO THREAD. 100000 PERCENT THREAD,no matter how you look at it!! IT IS THREAD, slightly thicker and more elastic,.. BUT THREAD!!!! CHRIST...
Message: Posted by: luckyspotz (Sep 5, 2015 01:25PM)
As you can see from my post count I'm a lurker but in this case feel I need to post.

IMO the most deceptive thing about Phantom is the advertising. In the ad (and even on the package) it specifically says "NO ..." despite the fact that the gimmick uses it.

I can't remember the last time I returned a trick but this is a matter of principle.
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Sep 5, 2015 01:30PM)
Ironic this came from a production company named "Empty Hand."
You hand is certainly not empty when you do the trick...that is the issue.
Message: Posted by: mikenewman (Sep 5, 2015 03:19PM)
I returned mine for a full refund, no questions asked.

I am glad that it wasn't just me.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 5, 2015 03:21PM)
[quote]On Aug 25, 2015, Dominic Reyes wrote:
The gimmick for this is very, very clever!

There seems to be a run of very good releases at the moment...

MoM will have this shipping from the UK, and I'll be having one myself

Dominic [/quote]

Really Dominic?? :confused:
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 5, 2015 03:22PM)
[quote]On Aug 27, 2015, paw wrote:
Hey Guys -
Patrick From Murphy's here.

I think this is one of those products that everyone is going to want once they know how it works. It's basically self working, you can apply it to so many different routines/effects.

Borrowed items? no problem! no body hook-ups, etc. this is really a cool 007 type thing.

Great work Peter!

p [/quote]

Really???
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 5, 2015 03:24PM)
[quote]On Aug 30, 2015, James Conti wrote:
[quote]On Aug 30, 2015, Mejais wrote:
Do you need some time for the setup? [/quote]

Nope, set up is done right in front of the spectator and its invisible. [/quote]

Hmmm. Interesting.
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Sep 5, 2015 04:03PM)
Haha....just received this and sadly I have to agree with everyone so far. It's horribly bad, I'm not even convinced the gimmick is 007 clever. I have a s****r p*n that's miles better. While I'm genuinely wary of reviews on here, they're all right. Nothing about this looks natural, the rising card and haunted deck are laughably bad in the demo video and I'm doubtful the bottle would even work but I'm not opening it to find out because even if it did it's so unnatural that it screams to the spectators in that you have to have something in your hand that is so obviously out of place it's like a giant pimple on your nose. Listen to the people who have this and save yourself the time and energy to have to send it back.

It's also interesting to wonder why there isn't the social media mob on this thread like they are on Ellusionist and Sansminds bemoaning the over the top misleading advertising. This is far far worse than anything I've encountered from either of those companies.

Still, Peter has released some great stuff in the past, no reason to think the next creation won't be great. No one hits home runs every time. This is for sure a swing and a miss. I said before this might be divisive. It won't be. Very few people are going to like this.
Message: Posted by: mikenewman (Sep 5, 2015 04:06PM)
[quote]On Sep 1, 2015, magicman29 wrote:
Does the gimmick make toast?

Kieran [/quote]


Nope.

But you can make toast, break off a small piece, and then make that small piece "magically" disappear!!!!

Oh,
Just FYI, you have to butter the toast with a sharpie first though. And for safety reasons you should keep the "knife" in your hand when you make the toast go bye bye...
Message: Posted by: mikenewman (Sep 5, 2015 04:14PM)
[quote]On Aug 25, 2015, Cole Gross wrote:
Phantom is crazy. Peter Eggink has killed it with this product.

Wanted to let you all know there is an incredible coin retention vanish that is taught with this in addition to the card and bottle routines that are shown in the video.

All borrowed items makes this even better!

Hocus Pocus has it available for Preorder here:
http://www.hocus-pocus.com/magicshop/?p=31252

Cole [/quote]


Are you seriously backing this product? "Incredible" retention vanish?

I fully support you coming in here and backing products so that we can buy from you. That is awesome. And I use to use that as a basis to purchase a product. No more. I will trust other customers instead. This was the first time I bought something by only reading reviews from dealers and watching the demo. HUGE mistake!

And.... to back a product like this and back the coin vanish?? Wow!

I know I said I was done with this thread, but it really upset me to see you and other dealers backing this; to include Murphy's.

Come on Cole. Please help us in the future.
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Sep 5, 2015 04:16PM)
You can make toast with it, but it will taste like wax, thread and a little sharpie ink 😂
Message: Posted by: pelicantrapper (Sep 5, 2015 04:31PM)
[quote]On Sep 5, 2015, mikenewman wrote:

it really upset me to see you and other dealers backing this; to include Murphy's.

Come on Cole. Please help us in the future. [/quote]


I agree.
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (Sep 5, 2015 06:08PM)
Not sure anything can top Change as the worst magic release of all time but sounds like this is gaining fast
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Sep 5, 2015 10:03PM)
Personally this is way worse but they're about neck and neck. I can use two of the changed cards and do (blurred King and color change) and if nothing else they're stupidly fun to play with on my sofa. Not so much this.
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Sep 5, 2015 10:32PM)
But does this work? That's all I care about. I will have no problem justifying the use of a sharpie (I'm kind of surprised that people are having such an issue with that). And once you use it to write with it's essentially invisible, people do things with markers/pens in their hands all the time.
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Sep 5, 2015 11:10PM)
You guys are being too harsh. Comparing this to Change? Worst trick ever? Far from it, just suffers from some overhype and misleading ad copy / demo. We expected something else, and in that regard it didn't deliver... But the product itself is not as bad as this thread makes it sound- just not for everyone or the answer we were all hoping it to be.
Message: Posted by: Mark8infiniti (Sep 6, 2015 10:00AM)
This is the worst trick I've ever purchased POUND FOR POUND. I was hoping I could at least use the sharpie as a pen but nope, doesn't even come with a real tip. Even the blob of wax was inferior. Didn't even get a DVD to use as a coaster. I cannot give this a single percent out of a hundred. Sorry... but true.
Message: Posted by: daniltan (Sep 6, 2015 10:34AM)
[quote]On Sep 6, 2015, magicmarkworldwide2 wrote:
This is the worst trick I've ever purchased POUND FOR POUND. I was hoping I could at least use the sharpie as a pen but nope, doesn't even come with a real tip. Even the blob of wax was inferior. Didn't even get a DVD to use as a coaster. I cannot give this a single percent out of a hundred. Sorry... but true. [/quote]

Well, I missed Change. But, I did ordered this. I hope this not as bad as it seem. I really think in the video, this effect would seem better than Change. Can't wait to play with this.
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Sep 6, 2015 11:10AM)
Well my mind is made up,my draw is bulging from all the crap I have had to sling in it,lol.Every day missleading adds come out and overpriced product's that look very cool on vidio are thrown at us by dealers's biggin it up,come on my magic world is getting more exspensive, and for what, a load of old toot,love Peters Haunted deck brilliant,only thing I do have by him but that is good.
Message: Posted by: Ross W (Sep 6, 2015 11:51AM)
So basically it's a pen with a reel in it?

Jeez. If so, that's truly disgracefully misleading advertising, if not blatant lying!

Also: there have been a handful of dealers coming on the forum lately presenting themselves as the "good guys" - i.e. "trust me, if I say it's great, it's great".

Reputations are hard to gain, but very easily lost, gentlemen.
Message: Posted by: cardbiker (Sep 6, 2015 01:29PM)
Peter, could you please explain why so many are mentioning thread when in the ad copy it clearly says No Thread !
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 6, 2015 02:46PM)
[quote]On Sep 6, 2015, Ross W wrote:
So basically it's a pen with a reel in it?

Jeez. If so, that's truly disgracefully misleading advertising, if not blatant lying!

Also: there have been a handful of dealers coming on the forum lately presenting themselves as the "good guys" - i.e. "trust me, if I say it's great, it's great".

Reputations are hard to gain, but very easily lost, gentlemen. [/quote]

Absolutely Ross. Although I've always taken their comments with a pinch of salt. Just as well really or I'd be homeless.
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (Sep 6, 2015 08:42PM)
I was really hoping to like this but I have to agree with everyone else. There was no need to bring this to market. I love cool gimmicks...IF they advance a plot or make an effect more impossible looking. This does neither. It makes the effects look more fishy and and it takes a giant leap backwards not forwards. A simple loop worn around your wrist is way more invisible and more magical looking. Cool gimmick...that will sit unused. But if you r looking for an effect to make $35 disappear, this is perfect.
Message: Posted by: FrankieF (Sep 6, 2015 09:38PM)
I had to ask for my money back. I've never been so disappointed by a trick as much as I have by this one.
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Sep 6, 2015 09:40PM)
[quote]On Sep 6, 2015, cardbiker wrote:

Peter, could you please explain why so many are mentioning thread when in [b]the ad copy it clearly says No Thread![/b] [/quote]

The Ad copy doesn't say 'No Thread!'. Rather it says "NO Invisible Thread!". For the MAGIC creator, distributor and the retailer they are two different items with a common word 'Thread'. This is how they make a fool of you and take your hard earned money. How else do you think they make their millions :worry: In MAGIC, this is an age old tradition to fool, deceive & cheat your own clan. In no way I am trying to single out Peter, this is common and goes for most creators and distributors.

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: Lord*Of*ILLUZION (Sep 6, 2015 11:06PM)
Just wanted to add some comments to the list. The marketing for the effect is deceiving. The gimmick is a step backwards in technology. Mine has stopped working consistently (doesn't retract back all of the way). The handling is awkward. A simple l**p or even the old Al Baker method is more economical for the haunted pack. Some of Peter's releases have been great....however...the joke is really on me this time for buying into the marketing. I don't know how people will use this in the real world.
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Sep 6, 2015 11:18PM)
[quote]On Sep 5, 2015, Magicsquared wrote:
But does this work? That's all I care about. I will have no problem justifying the use of a sharpie (I'm kind of surprised that people are having such an issue with that). And once you use it to write with it's essentially invisible, people do things with markers/pens in their hands all the time. [/quote]

I want to be clear that I didn't open my gimmick package and only watched the training video so I cannot comment on whether it actually works. However you should be aware of a few things. The gimmick doesn't actually work as its original pen form, it's not functional for that. In other words you can't write a word with , you will have to swap out the real pen for the gimmick. Secondly, while people perform with markers in their hands all the time they don't perform with them held in their hands this way. I think most times magicians over think things like the way hands are held because specs don't really notice BUT this is so odd that it's the first thing they will notice and it completely telegraphs the method. It is completely awkward. Until you see the video that won't make sense. The bottle effect is interesting and technically it might work but I highly doubt it since the way it's set up and way bottles are created there are rough edges that I don't think will allow the process to happen. If that's too much info regarding the technique please just flag this.

A few things about the advertising. The ad does not say no thread. This is typical advertising for any industry. There is actually no lying in it, it's technically correct in print. However it's just worded so that it sounds as though it's something it isn't. The trailer is more deceptive as it shows both hands clearly empty when they cannot be however technically it's not lying either as the angle they film at blocks the view of the gimmick. When you watch the teaching video compared to the trailer it's actually laugh out loud funny how completely different things look. If they showed the actual trick no one would buy this.

The major issue for me is that you can do the haunted deck and rising card with loops which is one million times easier, more invisible and looks completely clean with a borrowed deck so why would anyone even want to do it this way. It adds nothing to the effect except an unneeded gimmick. I could understand if it forwarded the effect even microscopically but it goes backwards.

How bad a purchase is is subjective, personally this was worse than Change and easily my worst purchase ever. My worst purchases ever go something like this. 1. Phantom 2. Bently 3. X-act 4. Change and 5. Sealed (probably great but impossible to make). The saving grace for me is that because of the way it's package it was unnecessary for me to open it. I could tell after ten minutes of watching that it wasn't going to be for me, I have never laughed out loud at a training video ever until this. Your mileage may vary but I can guarantee 90% or more are going to range from disappointed to downright angry.

Again I've liked some of Eggink's other product like Feel n Seal so I'm just writing this off as an anomaly. I am curious to see how many end up liking it though.
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Sep 7, 2015 01:24AM)
So ... there goes the hype ~

Could Phantom could be compared with Spider Pen ?
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 7, 2015 02:27AM)
But alas, it will continue to be sold and Eggink will be laughing all the way to the bank. It angers me to the core. :mad:
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Sep 7, 2015 03:28AM)
[quote]On Sep 7, 2015, Magician560 wrote:
So ... there goes the hype ~

Could Phantom could be compared with Spider Pen ? [/quote]

I have the spider pen. Think of it as a Ferrari and this as a Yugo.
Message: Posted by: mike donoghue (Sep 7, 2015 04:00AM)
Haven't tried this yet but my initial thoughts with the method are that it is dissapointing.

Wish I had asked for it to be demonstrated before I bought it, but no one from Magicbox had learnt it as it had just arrived.

It will work, but for the rising & haunted deck effects, normally you have more distance from the cards.

However, the bottle effect will play really well and the close proxcimity of the "Gimmick" will not be questioned(i think).

Mike Donoghue
Message: Posted by: Ross W (Sep 7, 2015 05:07AM)
Mark Traversoni (Saturn UK) has been unusually quiet on this one! It was he who devised the excellent handling for Peter Eggink's Haunted.

Can we deduce he is keeping a diplomatic silence?
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 7, 2015 05:18AM)
I would say so Ross. ;)
Message: Posted by: Saturn UK (Sep 7, 2015 07:54AM)
I have been watching this thread with interest but have not posted before because I guess some would say as a dealer you would say that...but here goes.

I am of the option reading the ad copy that it it correct.

Some are saying there is thread but reading the ad copy as pointed out already the ad copy says no invisible thread.
If you asked me to supply you invisible thread you would not expect to receive the item used, it is thread but not what we call invisible thread that many fear.

The problem is many have read this to mean no thread, I'm sorry to point this out but this is not the fault of the ad copy.

The video although shot the way it is is no less deceiving than many, I can think of one effect that uses a mirror hanging behind the table top, in the video you can't see the mirror but it is there if the spectator was to lean over and look.
The video is obviously not going to show you that angle either, is that video deceiving no its just hiding the secret. It also means that trick is no use to anyone unless performed in that way show, this is often cause for disappointment also.

As the pen is motivated in its use I don't think it would draw undue attention if handled correctly. It does work as Peter shows but it will take a bit of practice to get it smooth.

When ad copy is written the creators will often do a long list of items not used to create the effect, as a purchaser you should be more interested what is not included in the list as that is what is probably used.

The other option is to call or email your shop and ask questions, I knew nothing about how this worked until a day or so before it arrived and this is the case with most releases but I do try and help where I can.

I also come on here and don't hype effects in advance unless I have inside information, I won't just say something is a worker just to sell it, as pointed out already reputations are soon lost.

My opinion will not always be inline with others but I do try and base my comments on wether the majority of people would be happy with what I say.

I'm obviously not always right and people may not always agree but I do try to be as honest as possible.
Message: Posted by: Paul S Wingham (Sep 7, 2015 08:25AM)
I think the problem is more the fact that the combination of the demo being "cleverly" shot and the ad saying no invisible thread; has helped people wrongly assume this means no thread at all. Either way, the video gives the impression this is cleaner than it is which I don't think is on with a product that requires a custom gimmick. I appreciate if your trick is move based then you wont want to tip everything, but that isn't the case here; so why not an honest demo to allow people to decide.

I think people, including myself, feel agreived becasue there are already lots of really good haunted deck and rising cards out there that are much much cleaner than this and consequently the cleverly shot video has prompted a purchase that I suspect many simply would not have made had they have known the pen needs to be in play in a somewhat unatural way.

As I've said before, this "clever" marketing seems to be happening more and more with rarely a week passing where there isn't some sort of controversy at best and at worst, consumers being outright lied to. I appreciate the purpose of the advert is to sell products but I do think we have a right to be given enough info to make an informed decision. If nothing else, it couldve been mentioned in the ad copy as a relevant point.

I used this analogy in another thread, but this missing info feels almost as bad as lying. It's like buying a drill from a DIY shop, getting it home and discovering it only drills through polystyrene (the polystyrent in the ad was made to look like concrete). Sure; they've not lied to you per se; it is a drill, but the limitations are soemthing we'd like to know and that would influence our purchase.
Message: Posted by: Ross W (Sep 7, 2015 08:28AM)
Cool response, Mark - thanks!

Us oldies can remember the sensation of ordering something from a catalogue and being bitterly disappointed when it arrived. "Is that IT? Oh for heaven's sake!"

Video demos have gone a long way towards dispelling that disappointment but this is a great example of how the manufacturers stay one step ahead. Perhaps it will always be this way, until someone invents real magic.
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Sep 7, 2015 08:31AM)
[quote]On Sep 7, 2015, Ross W wrote:

Mark Traversoni (Saturn UK) has been unusually quiet on this one! It was he who devised the excellent handling for Peter Eggink's Haunted.

Can we deduce he is keeping a diplomatic silence? [/quote]

[quote]On Sep 7, 2015, Saturn UK wrote:

I have been watching this thread with interest but have not posted before because I guess some would say as a dealer you would say that...but here goes.

I am of the option reading the ad copy that it it correct.

Some are saying there is thread but reading the ad copy as pointed out already the ad copy says no invisible thread.
If you asked me to supply you invisible thread you would not expect to receive the item used, it is thread but not what we call invisible thread that many fear.

The problem is many have read this to mean no thread, I'm sorry to point this out but this is not the fault of the ad copy.
[/quote]

In this modern cyber information age, the creators and distributors still think that we (the magicians) can be easily fooled and taken for a jolly good ride by their so called clever advertising and hype campaign. Well they might have deceived a few but certainly not all. And now you come in and try to justify and teach us the difference between a Thread and an Invisible Thread? Mark, I am sorry to say that your above statement has only added insult to injury. Pathetic.

And you need to remember & keep in mind what you said, and may I please quote:-

[quote]On Sep 7, 2015, Saturn UK wrote:

[b]. . . reputations are soon lost.[/b]
[/quote]

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: CarlMcCoy (Sep 7, 2015 09:37AM)
Jeez Ustaad...

Mark didn't write the copy. He's only offering 'his' opinion of it and the effect in general.

You offer people 'your' opinion all the time.
Message: Posted by: Paul S Wingham (Sep 7, 2015 09:42AM)
To be clear; I'm annoyed about this, but I'm not annoyed at dealers; I'm annoyed at the person / people who made the trailer. I actually feel sorry for dealers when this sort of rubbish gets released as I imagine they sometimes struggle to move the stock!
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 7, 2015 10:03AM)
I agree with Ustaad. No one can defend this particular add. It is deceit in its worse form. Shame on the producers of this effect.
Message: Posted by: djefvulen (Sep 7, 2015 11:19AM)
Ok, got mine today. I really haven't tried it. Just watched the video. It doesn't seem very practical, but I will give it a chance. Nothing wrong with the gimmick itself, but it's the way it's used/held that ruins it (I think), looks very unnatural. Almost like wearing a tinfoilhat when performing a cardtrick. Everyone will ask you why you're wearing a tinfoilhat, and you really can't explain why...
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Sep 7, 2015 11:27AM)
[quote]On Sep 7, 2015, Saturn UK wrote:
The video although shot the way it is is no less deceiving than many, I can think of one effect that uses a mirror hanging behind the table top, in the video you can't see the mirror but it is there if the spectator was to lean over and look.
The video is obviously not going to show you that angle either, is that video deceiving no its just hiding the secret. It also means that trick is no use to anyone unless performed in that way show, this is often cause for disappointment also. [/quote]

that's not a good analogy. I know which trick you are referring to and that's perfectly fine they do not show the secret in the trailer because its never visible during the routine. In this case, to only show a tight close up of the deck while there is clearly a pen in your hand in actual performances is as deceiving as it gets since the spectator clearly sees your hand isn't empty.
Message: Posted by: kevishu (Sep 7, 2015 11:32AM)
I'm very disappointed in this product as well. But it's just as frustrating to see that some are basing their disgust on the fact the ad says no invisible thread. Some people truely don't like working with invisible thread, and so this is an alternative, although in my opinion not a good one. But I do believe that's why it's completely fair to state in the ad that it does not use invisible thread. The problems with this effect are not entirely common with the problems associated purely with invisible thread methods, making it an issue unrelated to invisible thread. Personally, I prefer invisible thread methods to the one used in Phantom. But if I absolutely hated working with invisible thread (for the commonly known reason), this does provide an alternative method which avoids that issue.
Message: Posted by: Mejais (Sep 7, 2015 11:51AM)
[quote]On Sep 7, 2015, djefvulen wrote:
Ok, got mine today. I really haven't tried it. Just watched the video. It doesn't seem very practical, but I will give it a chance. Nothing wrong with the gimmick itself, but it's the way it's used/held that ruins it (I think), looks very unnatural. Almost like wearing a tinfoilhat when performing a cardtrick. Everyone will ask you why you're wearing a tinfoilhat, and you really can't explain why... [/quote]

USE THE TINFOIL HAT FOR MISDIRECTION. THEY WONT QUESTION THE PEN.
Message: Posted by: djefvulen (Sep 7, 2015 12:00PM)
[quote]On Sep 7, 2015, Mejais wrote:
[quote]On Sep 7, 2015, djefvulen wrote:
Ok, got mine today. I really haven't tried it. Just watched the video. It doesn't seem very practical, but I will give it a chance. Nothing wrong with the gimmick itself, but it's the way it's used/held that ruins it (I think), looks very unnatural. Almost like wearing a tinfoilhat when performing a cardtrick. Everyone will ask you why you're wearing a tinfoilhat, and you really can't explain why... [/quote]

USE THE TINFOIL HAT FOR MISDIRECTION. THEY WONT QUESTION THE PEN. [/quote]
And a toaster under my arm, and a propeller on the tinfoilhat. It might just work.
Message: Posted by: Mark8infiniti (Sep 7, 2015 12:07PM)
HOLD ON A MINUTE, AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE WITH REGARDS TO THE AD COPY????

OKAY, peter wins with the NO INVISIBLE THREAD LINE, HE IS DECEITFULLY CORRECT, He's done us.... but... the ad copy also says NO ELASTICS!! NO ELALSTICS!!!!! IF a piece of FLEXIBLE FISHING LINE on a TENSION BASED spring that SNAPS BACK is NOT ELASTIC, then what is!??????????????????????? COME ON!!!!!!

Let's look at the ENTIRE ad copy one more time and assess:

NO Invisible Thread! - Okay, Peter, you've done me.
NO Loops! - 2-0 to you... EVEN though on the haunted deck you are LOOPING the fishing line around the deck.... durh
NO Elastics! - The ENTIRE GIMMICK IS BASED AROUND A TENSION AND a cord of fishing line on a spring... this is as elasticy as it gets... DON'T !@#$%^&* ME!
NO Skill! -
NO Magnets! - obviously... but why would this be a selling point anyway? What's wrong with magnets?
All borrowed items! - NOPE! You can't borrow the pen!!! You have to SUPPLY A GIMMICKED CRAPPY PEN YOURSELF IDIOT!!!!!
Easy to do with ZERO sleight of hand! - Absolute rubbish. It's horrific to perform, Nacky, looks STUPID, clumsy and actually involves a PEN SWITCH which actually classes as sleight of hand.
ALWAYS ready to go! - It's NEVER READY TO GO!!!! yOU HAVE to go through a distingly stupid process of attaching a line of fishing line to the middle of a deck using a blob of wax that will hardly ever hold anyway!
Instant reset! - Again, see above... getting into this trick is a pointless nightmare.
Extremely well made gimmick! - It's the most pointless gimmick I've ever handled... the pen DOESN'T EVEN WRITE!!!!


SO THERE YOU GO, this analysis proves that We've been LIED TO on about 7 occassions and TRICKED on the other couple of points. I was ready to let this go but with people coming on here defending the ad copy... I coulnd't resist a final pop at this.

It's laughable. Who the hell wrote this ad copy?m I thought Peter was a trusted guy?
Message: Posted by: cardbiker (Sep 7, 2015 12:39PM)
Come on Peter when it's all going well you're happy to post!
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Sep 7, 2015 01:14PM)
Excellent review magicmarkworldwide2, I have just placed my order 👍
Message: Posted by: MR Effecto (Sep 7, 2015 01:22PM)
Is this like the same gimmick as with the Hole effect he put out?
Message: Posted by: magicman29 (Sep 7, 2015 03:15PM)
I'll keep this review short and sweet... it went straight into the bin!

Kieran
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Sep 7, 2015 03:27PM)
[quote]On Sep 7, 2015, magicman29 wrote:
I'll keep this review short and sweet... it went straight into the bin!

Kieran [/quote]
Lol,i like it.
Message: Posted by: gtx magic (Sep 7, 2015 05:26PM)
These are some comments from penguin magic customers. And also in fairness to penguin they do publish there negative reviews on their post...Unlike Ellusionist whom only publish positive reviews.

Phantom by Peter Eggink






be ready to Astonish...

"Phantom" is a specially engendered utility gimmick that you'll carry with you everywhere you go. This new secret weapon allows you to perform killer effects such as the "Haunted Deck" and "Rising Card" like NEVER before. Use ANY deck, ANY time at ANY place, WITHOUT gimmicked cards, Sleight of hand, etc. Perform authentic miracles on the spot using BORROWED items! You are going to LOVE this gimmick!

Other effects include: Catch a "Ghost" in a BORROWED bottle and watch the bottle EERILY and MAGICALLY unscrew itself from the cap! Then, Hand the ENTIRE thing out for examination.

The gimmick is invisible to the spectator's eye and is easy & totally FUN to perform!

Key Points:
•NO Invisible Thread!
•NO Loops!
•NO Elastics!
•NO Skill!
•NO Magnets!
•All borrowed items!
•Easy to do with ZERO sleight of hand!
•ALWAYS ready to go!
•Instant reset!
•Extremely well made gimmick!

Comes complete with the special "Phantom" gimmick along with an HD streaming instructional video, showcasing different routines, ideas and performance tips.








Have a question about this product?
ASK HERE



Write a review!

Customer Reviews (showing 1 - 4 of 4)
3 of 3 magicians found the following review helpful:

False Advertising, Great demo vid to cover it Report this review
Anonymous from Virginia on September 2nd, 2015

Wow.
I can't believe that the ad copy and demo got passed the common sense people and this is being sold. I can't pinpoint the ad copy, as it would give away the gimmick and I am not about that. But don't buy this. You will be highly disappointed.

NOT easy to do at all. Extremely awkward at best.

I will have to say this. It is a decent idea to an idea that had been already out there n a few forms that I have seen. Yes, I said forms.. Hard to explain.

And good luck getting to the streaming video instructions.


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3 of 3 magicians found the following review helpful:

Buy at your own risk Report this review
Anonymous from CA on September 3rd, 2015

The ad copy and video for Phantom are extremely misleading. Buyers beware.

First, It indicates in the ad copy that invisible thread is not used. This is semantics. Beware.

Second, the thing that comes from the gimmick for just over 3 inches. Thus the gimmick cannot be that far away from the card(s). When you watch the videos you clearly see beyond 3 inches around the deck or bottle cap and you do not see the gimmick being held. Without giving it away the gimmick is about 5.5 inches long so not something you can miss. The gimmick looks like something we are all familiar with but imagine holding a long 5 inch object next to the box or bottle for no apparent reason as the card rises or the bottle/cap spin... it's suspicious. If the gimmick is used in the demo it's done in a deceptive (misleading manner) that you would not be able to get away with in real use. The gimmick would have to extend from the back of the hand (and again it is 5.5 inches long). On the video instructions the gimmick looks glaringly odd in the position required. This is simply not shown on the trailer. The video performance in the instructional section is disappointing. In the trailer it looks like magic. As noted, in my opinion, the demo was not done using the gimmick. I'm all about giving the positive points of a trick (or anything you are advertising) but not misleading the buyer.

I like Peter's thinking but this was bad and the thing that upset me was the advertising and trailer he provided.


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3 of 3 magicians found the following review helpful:

I have been ripped off! I want my money back! Report this review
Verified buyer CJJanis from Chicago on September 4th, 2015

Wow I was expecting much better from Peter, but this is garbage! The ad is a total lie, and I have to say I would not be selling this. The gimmick is BBBBBBIGGGGGG and out in the open for all to see!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO STARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Message: Posted by: takeachance (Sep 7, 2015 06:26PM)
Yep, if you have space at the back of your draw that needs to be filled then this is what you need to fill it.
Message: Posted by: Wardy (Sep 7, 2015 07:39PM)
After trying to get this thing to work I contacted Penguin and asked for reimbursement in the way of equivalent downloads. They agreed the ad copy was misleading and were happy to refund. I got this only for the Genie In A Bottle and sad to say that trick is nowhere near 100%. Luckily I'm not a big gimmick buyer and this reminds me why. Top marks to Mert at Penguin for reimbursing me within a couple of hours of me contacting them.Live and learn,luckily Haunted Doll blew people way over the weekend.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Sep 7, 2015 10:20PM)
Well, peter promised a video full on to show it in real time situations - yet nothing has come forth. Just returned from holidays and will likely find my phantom waiting at the post office - glad I ordered from penguin as they are great in returns and refunds..... I am surprised at the other merchants singing this thing praises....guess I'll find out tomorrow if my experience mirrors the rest here
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 8, 2015 12:39AM)
[quote]On Aug 27, 2015, paw wrote:
Hey Guys -
Patrick From Murphy's here.

I think this is one of those products that everyone is going to want once they know how it works. It's basically self working, you can apply it to so many different routines/effects.

Borrowed items? no problem! no body hook-ups, etc. this is really a cool 007 type thing.

Great work Peter!

Dominic : Patrick is spot on here. Even if you play with magic for your own personal fun and never perform, you will love the gimmick, it's genius. If you do perform, then I'm sure you will be using this at gigs!

James Conti :
So! Phantom! God, the trailer got me excited. I was lucky enough to have Peter send me a unit, and in the meanwhile, get to check out the streaming/downloadable tutorial video that accompanies the gimmick. And my initial thoughts are - this is AWESOME!





p [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Mejais (Sep 8, 2015 12:43AM)
"I think this is one of those products that everyone is going to want once they know how it works" ...

Wax blob in the middle of a deck of card and a string attached to a pen... yeah I totally want that!

Sad I already ordered it and its shipping :( I should have waited for more reviews. I thought the seller would be honest since the sites had a good reputation. I will learn from my mistake for sure.
Message: Posted by: markhitton (Sep 8, 2015 01:10AM)
[quote]On Sep 7, 2015, Ustaad wrote:
[quote]On Sep 7, 2015, Ross W wrote:

Mark Traversoni (Saturn UK) has been unusually quiet on this one! It was he who devised the excellent handling for Peter Eggink's Haunted.

Can we deduce he is keeping a diplomatic silence? [/quote]

[quote]On Sep 7, 2015, Saturn UK wrote:

I have been watching this thread with interest but have not posted before because I guess some would say as a dealer you would say that...but here goes.

I am of the option reading the ad copy that it it correct.

Some are saying there is thread but reading the ad copy as pointed out already the ad copy says no invisible thread.
If you asked me to supply you invisible thread you would not expect to receive the item used, it is thread but not what we call invisible thread that many fear.

The problem is many have read this to mean no thread, I'm sorry to point this out but this is not the fault of the ad copy.
[/quote]

In this modern cyber information age, the creators and distributors still think that we (the magicians) can be easily fooled and taken for a jolly good ride by their so called clever advertising and hype campaign. Well they might have deceived a few but certainly not all. And now you come in and try to justify and teach us the difference between a Thread and an Invisible Thread? Mark, I am sorry to say that your above statement has only added insult to injury. Pathetic.

And you need to remember & keep in mind what you said, and may I please quote:-

[quote]On Sep 7, 2015, Saturn UK wrote:

[b]. . . reputations are soon lost.[/b]
[/quote]

:xmas: [/quote]


I totally agree ,well said.the Traversoni explanation is a bad trial to justify a poor marketing operation.
No thread means no thread stop playing with words is irritating enough
:hotcoffee:
Message: Posted by: markhitton (Sep 8, 2015 01:13AM)
[quote]On Sep 7, 2015, pegasus wrote:
I agree with Ustaad. No one can defend this particular add. It is deceit in its worse form. Shame on the producers of this effect. [/quote]


Yes me too
:stircoffee:
Message: Posted by: Sean Giles (Sep 8, 2015 01:45AM)
This is a genius method... for getting rid of all those Hole gimmicks that didn't sell ;)
Message: Posted by: normative (Sep 8, 2015 04:44AM)
You know it's bad when the best defense of the ad copy anyone can muster is semantic hairsplitting on par with "well, technically I didn't SLEEP with your sister... we were wide awake the whole time!" You can get a whiff of bad conscience even in the instructional video: "This is totally motivated! <Strikes ludicrously awkward pose> Spectators will find this totally natural!" I suppose I'll probably hang onto mine on the off chance I come up with some sort of off label use for it, but at the moment I'm hard pressed to imagine what effect it could accomplish that wouldn't more elegantly & reliably be accomplished by other methods.
Message: Posted by: reignofsound (Sep 8, 2015 04:47AM)
Be good to see Peter's full performance video on this.
Message: Posted by: Paul S Wingham (Sep 8, 2015 06:09AM)
Review

I'm disappointed. Firstly, with myself for not waiting until reviews came in from regular people with no vested interest in the trick's success. Secondly and more importantly I am disappointed with the creator for releasing this effect with the video it was released with and to a lesser extent; the ad copy.

To be clear and fair; it does work (or at least the haunted deck and rising card do - more about genie later.

If the adverts had shown the pen awkwardly in his hand then I could have made an informed decision and that decision would have been to not give this effect a second thought. However; you didn't. So; what I thought I was buying was a way of doing the haunted deck / rising card without invisible thread but still very cleanly. Now as someone who doesn't entirely trust thread; this seemed like a great addition. In reality of course, you get rid of the thread (on a technicality) and introduce a pen with perhaps not technically elastic but certainly something that behaves like elastic and you also have to hold the pen in this weird way. I often tread carefully and I invite a response, but in my opinion, this clever filming was done so purely to deceive because in truth, I don't think many people would trade a look that is invisible, for a pen being held in your hand; and that is why I am so annoyed.

Now; I said this works and if you can justify holding the pen and your audience don't do the obvious thing of wanting to see the pen in your hands, then you can perform a version of rising card and haunted deck. However; genie is very very hit and miss; to a point where the beauty of it is lost by the reliability. let me explain. Genie is a cool trick in theory and certainly looks cool in the demo (without pen in hand), but its a trick that needs to be done with a borrowed bottle. However, it's very temprermental. you need a certain type of bottle, and by that, I don't mean a cola or pepsi bottle, I mean something else. The issue is that bottles are throw away mass produced items and subsequently quality even within brands varies. So; to do Genie, you would have to ask to look at the bottle, test it out a bit and then decide whether to perform or not. Not particularly practical to say "no; sorry, it's not the right kind of borrowed bottle".

So in summary; this is my new worst purchase of 2015. Quite a claim from a man who bought Change. However; one thing that change can do, is a) amuse my kids and b) provided me with a modicum of amusement playing with the cards. This does neither.

So there you go. In my opinion, a blatant attempt to deceive people in to buying a rubbish version of a classic trick and a version that adds nothing to the genre.

Question is; at a time where barely a week goes by with dodgy ad copy; what can we the consumer do to stop it?
Message: Posted by: RNK (Sep 8, 2015 06:47AM)
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, Paul S Wingham wrote:
what can we the consumer do to stop it? [/quote]


It would help if people quit pre-ordering. Then probably less people would get bitten by the snake!!
Message: Posted by: Dazzler UK (Sep 8, 2015 06:52AM)
Catch 22. We either pre-order and hope for the best. Or wait for some reviews to flood in and take a risk that the product is awesome and everyone will want one so it sells out everywhere and you cant get one for love nor money - Cube 3 for example.
Message: Posted by: RNK (Sep 8, 2015 07:00AM)
If you are one that likes to pre-order and end up unhappy with your purchase should not complain. Everyone is WELL AWARE of deceiving ad copies in today's world.
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Sep 8, 2015 07:14AM)
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, RNK wrote:
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, Paul S Wingham wrote:
what can we the consumer do to stop it? [/quote]


It would help if people quit pre-ordering. Then probably less people would get bitten by the snake!! [/quote]

I am sure we have all met someone who says they don't like magic because the last magicians they saw was terrible or embarassed the person. Same goes with new products.

Not all new products are bad; not all trailers are deceitful.

Pre-ordering might seem like a gamble but that depends on whether you trust the supplier and whether they will offer a refund if what you receive is not what was advertised in either method or effect.

Personally, I will be happy to offer someone a refund if what I advertise either in video form or ad copy is proven to be blatantly deceptive towards the buyer or a downright lie. How about asking for a commitment from the person you are pre-ordering or buying from for the same? I'd be more than happy to do so if asked.

Pre-orders can be a very important part of bringing a new product to market. There should never be a blanket ban on it due to a few misdemeanours.
Message: Posted by: Dazzler UK (Sep 8, 2015 07:35AM)
Agreed RNK that's how they get us by the short and curly's. Based on the ad copy phantom should be 'sold out' and people may have had to wait a while to get one. So you either take the plunge and possibly end up dissapointed or wait longer to get one if its awesome and you can be patient.
Unfortunately I wasnt patient enough and was dissapointed. In this case I learnt the hard way so I'll kick myself and move on but to be fair it wouldnt stop me from purchasing another effect by peter because if its a good effect and practical I don't care if my aunties neighbour created it. So no hard feelings here, as I've only got myself to blame.
Message: Posted by: RNK (Sep 8, 2015 07:39AM)
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, Jon Allen wrote:
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, RNK wrote:
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, Paul S Wingham wrote:
what can we the consumer do to stop it? [/quote]


It would help if people quit pre-ordering. Then probably less people would get bitten by the snake!! [/quote]

I am sure we have all met someone who says they don't like magic because the last magicians they saw was terrible or embarassed the person. Same goes with new products.

Not all new products are bad; not all trailers are deceitful.

Pre-ordering might seem like a gamble but that depends on whether you trust the supplier and whether they will offer a refund if what you receive is not what was advertised in either method or effect.

Personally, I will be happy to offer someone a refund if what I advertise either in video form or ad copy is proven to be blatantly deceptive towards the buyer or a downright lie. How about asking for a commitment from the person you are pre-ordering or buying from for the same? I'd be more than happy to do so if asked.

Pre-orders can be a very important part of bringing a new product to market. There should never be a blanket ban on it due to a few misdemeanours. [/quote]

Jon- well said. I think that would be a fantastic idea! A disclosure from the creator/distributor that a refund will be offered if what is advertised is false or as you put it, "if what you receive is not what was advertised in either method or effect."

And I do agree there are FEW creators that you can trust. But the list keeps getting shorter. As to your statement, "There should never be a blanket ban on it due to a few misdemeanours". Well- there are ONLY a few you can trust now.

Also, can you please tell us why pre-ordering is a "very important part of bringing a new product to market"?
Message: Posted by: Paul S Wingham (Sep 8, 2015 08:07AM)
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, RNK wrote:
If you are one that likes to pre-order and end up unhappy with your purchase should not complain. Everyone is WELL AWARE of deceiving ad copies in today's world. [/quote]

So its my fault the creator sold this in the basis of a video that basically omits the fact a pen has to be held? As it goes I only bought this as it was relatively cheap and I had a voucher code over bank holiday; otherwise I wouldve waited. However I still think the onus is on the creator to be honest and the video is simply dishonest in my opinion. The ad copy is probably just about honest on a technicality.

The thing is that magic is niche and without pre orders a lot of tricks would never see the light of day so in my opinion its not fair to say "pre orders are bad". All I can do is act by a) not buying anything from peter again and b) make sure this sort of thing isn't forgotten or overlooked. Therefore expect to see me harping on about this anytime a new release comes up.
Message: Posted by: jimesw (Sep 8, 2015 08:14AM)
Can people not just send it back for a refund? If I bought a can of baked beans and there was peanut butter inside I'd send it back.
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Sep 8, 2015 08:25AM)
When it arrives, just send it back for a refund under the distance and selling act - that's last resort if the seller won't just cancel the pre order and simply refund you.
Message: Posted by: magicman29 (Sep 8, 2015 08:30AM)
Anyone notice the gap in between the two halves of the deck for the haunted deck explaination, it was like 2-3mm! lol
If peter ever does get back to this thread I've one question for you... if (before phantom was created) you saw a magician doing a rising card/haunted deck/ghost in a bottle effect while holding a sharpie in an awkward position in the same hand as the deck would you be suspicious of the sharpie, honestly?

Kieran
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Sep 8, 2015 08:53AM)
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, Sean Giles wrote:

[b]This is a genius method... for getting rid of all those Hole gimmicks that didn't sell[/b] ;) [/quote]


:bg: :lol:

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: luckyspotz (Sep 8, 2015 09:08AM)
I've seen a lot of mind pretzel and splitting hairs, both here and elsewhere, attempting to explain or minimize deceptive advertising. Reality check: deceptive advertising is NOT acceptable and in fact, federal law in the United States requires that ads be truthful AND not misleading.
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/media-resources/truth-advertising

Deceptive trick = GO
Deceptive advertising = NOGO
Message: Posted by: normative (Sep 8, 2015 09:47AM)
Well, it's not really a "Catch-22" so much as a plain old "tradeoff": You take the risk of being disappointed in a product that doesn't live up to its sales pitch in order to guarantee you get one if it turns out to be hit. But while to SOME extent I'll buy the argument that this is a knowing risk, it seems awfully perverse to say people shouldn't complain about deceptive advertising because everyone knows ads are misleading. There's ordinary allowance for hype——few products are exactly as MINDBLOWINGLY LIFE CHANGING as the trailers imply——and then there's... well, stuff like this.
Message: Posted by: normative (Sep 8, 2015 09:52AM)
Incidentally, since Slackerking mentioned it upthread, thought I'd point out that Amazon is, for some weird reason, currently selling the Spider Pen Pro (currently $99+ at all the usual online magic shops) for the "is that a mistake??" price of $19.99. They're showing 5 remaining, so maybe they're clearing out old stock or something? Anyway, PSA in case there are folks who'd always wanted one but couldn't stomach the price——just snagged 2 myself. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008NHPUJS?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00
Message: Posted by: RNK (Sep 8, 2015 10:02AM)
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, Paul S Wingham wrote:
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, RNK wrote:
If you are one that likes to pre-order and end up unhappy with your purchase should not complain. Everyone is WELL AWARE of deceiving ad copies in today's world. [/quote]

So its my fault the creator sold this in the basis of a video that basically omits the fact a pen has to be held? As it goes I only bought this as it was relatively cheap and I had a voucher code over bank holiday; otherwise I wouldve waited. However I still think the onus is on the creator to be honest and the video is simply dishonest in my opinion. The ad copy is probably just about honest on a technicality.

The thing is that magic is niche and without pre orders a lot of tricks would never see the light of day so in my opinion its not fair to say "pre orders are bad". All I can do is act by a) not buying anything from peter again and b) make sure this sort of thing isn't forgotten or overlooked. Therefore expect to see me harping on about this anytime a new release comes up. [/quote]

No Paul- it is definitely not your fault that "the creator sold this in the basis of a video that basically omits the fact a pen has to be held?" You, others and even myself at times- it's been our fault by purchasing pre-order products. My only point is there have been many cases, and many increasing cases of people not happy with what they received as compared to the ad. We all know this, therefore it's our fault that we continue to buy pre-orders. That's all I am saying. We all have been a victim of it from time to time. That being said, I have maybe 4 creators who I trust and will pre-order. IF I would pre-order a product from ONE of those FOUR and was not happy about it. I would not complain and they would go on my DO NOT Pre-Oder List. Burn me once- I will not pre-order from you even if it means there may be a limited quantity release and I may lose out by not getting one. Oh well, there is way to much magic/mental effects out there that by not getting that one product will not make me a worse performer.
Message: Posted by: Paul S Wingham (Sep 8, 2015 10:16AM)
I know what you mean rnk. The problem is that irrispective of pre order; someone has to buy first and on the strength of a couple of shop owners; this sounded great? I guess what I am saying is there always needs to be someone taking a leap of faith.
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Sep 8, 2015 10:18AM)
Hole , is much better than this though ~
Message: Posted by: Dazzler UK (Sep 8, 2015 10:24AM)
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, Magician560 wrote:
Hole , is much better than this though ~ [/quote]

Agreed. A bit knacky but better.
Message: Posted by: Peter Eggink (Sep 8, 2015 10:46AM)
Here's a full performance video of the Rising Card effect with gimmick in play incl. the "secret move" (which in real life situations won't be noticed by your specs. due to the natural build-in misdirection).

https://youtu.be/RH_h0L2elps


Thanks,

Peter
Message: Posted by: Christopher Williams (Sep 8, 2015 11:11AM)
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, Peter Eggink wrote:
Here's a full performance video of the Rising Card effect with gimmick in play incl. the "secret move" (which in real life situations won't be noticed by your specs. due to the natural build-in misdirection).

https://youtu.be/RH_h0L2elps


Thanks,

Peter [/quote]

I wonder how many will change their mind now Peter... I don't actually think it looks bad at all, and some say it is an unnatural handling... have you see the way Magicians 'juggle cards', how some do their 'DL'?! What constitutes as natural?! I may take advantage of someone selling theirs second hand after seeing this, I have some ideas I can think would work with this. Have you seen how lay people shuffle a deck?! How clumsy some of them are, and how they handle a pack of cards like it is red hot?! We don't see the way they shuffle a pack of cards or whatever as natural, as it isn't natural to us, however if it is natural to them.

Well done Peter
Message: Posted by: RNK (Sep 8, 2015 11:19AM)
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, Paul S Wingham wrote:
I know what you mean rnk. The problem is that irrispective of pre order; someone has to buy first and on the strength of a couple of shop owners; this sounded great? I guess what I am saying is there always needs to be someone taking a leap of faith. [/quote]

I think you know as well I as I know- there will always be someone out there that will buy. Too many addicts out there.
Message: Posted by: djefvulen (Sep 8, 2015 11:24AM)
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, Christopher Williams wrote:
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, Peter Eggink wrote:
Here's a full performance video of the Rising Card effect with gimmick in play incl. the "secret move" (which in real life situations won't be noticed by your specs. due to the natural build-in misdirection).

https://youtu.be/RH_h0L2elps


Thanks,

Peter [/quote]

I wonder how many will change their mind now Peter... I don't actually think it looks bad at all, and some say it is an unnatural handling... have you see the way Magicians 'juggle cards', how some do their 'DL'?! What constitutes as natural?! I may take advantage of someone selling theirs second hand after seeing this, I have some ideas I can think would work with this. Have you seen how lay people shuffle a deck?! How clumsy some of them are, and how they handle a pack of cards like it is red hot?! We don't see the way they shuffle a pack of cards or whatever as natural, as it isn't natural to us, however if it is natural to them.

Well done Peter [/quote]
I agree, it doesn't look bad. I think it look worse in the teaching video than it does in this video. I certainly will give it a try. This video should be included in the ad, then people might have not been so disappointed. Would be nice with some more videos like this, but with haunted deck and the bottle.
Message: Posted by: Dazzler UK (Sep 8, 2015 11:32AM)
Performed nicely.
Message: Posted by: MR Effecto (Sep 8, 2015 11:38AM)
As I said earlier on this effect. Thinking it was like the hole gimmick and I was right. I pulled my hole gimmick out and did the rising card effect just like on his demo. Not bad Petter. It works like a charm. I kinda like it. I wont need to buy the Phantom gimmick even if not the same but can use my hole gimmick just the same. No jokes please lets keep it clean. Even my hole gimmick is clean. LOL
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Sep 8, 2015 11:41AM)
Performed well, but why the hell would anyone logically be wanting to hold a pen whist holding the card box. To even justify people possibly changing their mind, I think its only fair and an idea to post a private live performance vid like above of each effect (e.g haunted deck) so people can see the potential of turning this negative maybe into a positive.
Message: Posted by: CarlMcCoy (Sep 8, 2015 12:19PM)
Dare I say that this thread seems to be another example of magicians overthinking everything?

Seems like it works fine and it didn't look suspicious to me at all.

For the record I was never going to buy it, and still aren't...but good job Peter.
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Sep 8, 2015 12:25PM)
As I said earlier, its more unnatural for the performer... not the spectator. Holding the pen in that position feels weird.... and the angle also helps for the deck to be facing the spectator as in the demo.
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Sep 8, 2015 12:32PM)
I just wanted to answer the question about pre-ordering. I only said it "can" be important because it can help to raise finances in a short space of time. Putting out a new product is not always cheap. Set up charges, prototypes and changes, packaging etc.. By offering pre-orders during, say a two week period, it's an enticement to those who wish to get the product first but also helps to bolster depleted finances.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Sep 8, 2015 12:56PM)
So, it seems this item works well as part of a combo of effects.... but yeah, in the end, I could do this for loops and not need the pen :(

I guess the question is - why use this vs. loops?

The video looks great but then it seems to me you need to do one effect with a time misdirection to switch in the gimmick hmmmm
Message: Posted by: reignofsound (Sep 8, 2015 12:56PM)
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, normative wrote:
Incidentally, since Slackerking mentioned it upthread, thought I'd point out that Amazon is, for some weird reason, currently selling the Spider Pen Pro (currently $99+ at all the usual online magic shops) for the "is that a mistake??" price of $19.99. They're showing 5 remaining, so maybe they're clearing out old stock or something? Anyway, PSA in case there are folks who'd always wanted one but couldn't stomach the price——just snagged 2 myself. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008NHPUJS?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00 [/quote]

Purchased at that price even though I have Fearson's Cobra
Message: Posted by: Ceierry (Sep 8, 2015 01:01PM)
OMG it show 95$ now :s
Message: Posted by: Paul S Wingham (Sep 8, 2015 01:07PM)
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, Christopher Williams wrote:
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, Peter Eggink wrote:
Here's a full performance video of the Rising Card effect with gimmick in play incl. the "secret move" (which in real life situations won't be noticed by your specs. due to the natural build-in misdirection).

https://youtu.be/RH_h0L2elps


Thanks,

Peter [/quote]

I wonder how many will change their mind now Peter... I don't actually think it looks bad at all, and some say it is an unnatural handling... have you see the way Magicians 'juggle cards', how some do their 'DL'?! What constitutes as natural?! I may take advantage of someone selling theirs second hand after seeing this, I have some ideas I can think would work with this. Have you seen how lay people shuffle a deck?! How clumsy some of them are, and how they handle a pack of cards like it is red hot?! We don't see the way they shuffle a pack of cards or whatever as natural, as it isn't natural to us, however if it is natural to them.

Well done Peter [/quote]

The issue is Chris; the demo didn't show this honest presentation, it deliberately hid the fact the pen was in play and only when called out was the honest demo offered up. Kinda like closing the stable door once the horse has bolted in my opinion. I think most people's grievance is the dishonesty that suggested we were getting something a lot cleaner than is actually the case. We can do a similar effect with a loop that is much cleaner. It's not the fact it is unworkable because it does work, its just I didn't want a version of haunted deck / rising card that is a lot less clean than almost everything that came before phantom.
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Sep 8, 2015 01:10PM)
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, Ceierry wrote:
OMG it show 95$ now :s [/quote]

There were only a few left from the seller who listed it for $20... those sold out so now it's showing another seller at the full price.
Message: Posted by: reignofsound (Sep 8, 2015 01:12PM)
Will let you know if I get it or not.
I have email confirmation from them at $25 though :)
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 8, 2015 01:29PM)
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, reignofsound wrote:
Will let you know if I get it or not.
I have email confirmation from them at $25 though :) [/quote]

Thank you. I can't wait to know if you get it, or not. :confused:
Message: Posted by: mikenewman (Sep 8, 2015 01:35PM)
When I had mine for a few minutes.. It didn't work well at all. It kept slowing down, and wouldn't retract smooth at all. Just as in any product, there will be defective ones. There was another person on here that had issues as well I believe. I am curious if anyine else has issues? Actually I don't care. I am just glad that I wasn't the only one that doesn't like this.

I retuned it for full refund.

I have to admit, the new demo does look much better. I would fall for it again, if I didn't know any better.
Message: Posted by: reignofsound (Sep 8, 2015 03:48PM)
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, pegasus wrote:
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, reignofsound wrote:
Will let you know if I get it or not.
I have email confirmation from them at $25 though :) [/quote]

Thank you. I can't wait to know if you get it, or not. :confused: [/quote]

That was meant for normative

This place is too funny at times.
Every one sarky as f*$k

:)
Message: Posted by: markhitton (Sep 8, 2015 04:13PM)
Good performance but not convincing :hotcoffee:
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Sep 8, 2015 04:29PM)
Has this site been hacked or was?,i kept getting some page up earlier on this thread ,some Saver thing?.
Message: Posted by: Bill08 (Sep 8, 2015 04:50PM)
I don't think there is any rationale for pre-ordering. If the creator has already approached dealers and everyone is keen on releasing the product, then raising money for manufacturing should not be an issue. As for the argument that a really great trick might end up sold-out, when something is selling strong it is only a matter of time before more are produced. My gut feeling is that pre-ordering exists as a means of selling a lot of product before any real world reviews roll in. In what way does it benefit the consumer?
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Sep 8, 2015 06:07PM)
Well, I got it. I was really waiting for the miracle to happen - but it didn't.

They should have at least made it WRITE..... I mean, at least add some darn ink. ...

Everyone said it was 007 style - but I think the closest thing was Red Grant's garrotte watch - and that was WAYYYYYYYYY better in design - you could even tell the time....
Message: Posted by: gtx magic (Sep 8, 2015 06:27PM)
[quote]On Sep 9, 2015, Dr Spektor wrote:
Well, I got it. I was really waiting for the miracle to happen - but it didn't.

They should have at least made it WRITE..... I mean, at least add some darn ink. ...

Everyone said it was 007 style - but I think the closest thing was Red Grant's garrotte watch - and that was WAYYYYYYYYY better in design - you could even tell the time.... [/quote]

Dr Spektor

Can we take that as a not recommended. And would yourself not perform this to others.

Thanks

Graham
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 8, 2015 06:31PM)
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, reignofsound wrote:
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, pegasus wrote:
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, reignofsound wrote:
Will let you know if I get it or not.
I have email confirmation from them at $25 though :) [/quote]

Thank you. I can't wait to know if you get it, or not. :confused: [/quote]

That was meant for normative

This place is too funny at times.
Every one sarky as f*$k

:) [/quote]

Too late now. I will not sleep until I know this piece of junk has arrived safely in your hands. :lol:
Message: Posted by: daniltan (Sep 8, 2015 06:50PM)
[quote]On Sep 9, 2015, Dr Spektor wrote:
They should have at least made it WRITE..... I mean, at least add some darn ink. ...
[/quote]

That would be Phantom ver2.0
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Sep 8, 2015 07:36PM)
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, gtx magic wrote:
[quote]On Sep 9, 2015, Dr Spektor wrote:
Well, I got it. I was really waiting for the miracle to happen - but it didn't.

They should have at least made it WRITE..... I mean, at least add some darn ink. ...

Everyone said it was 007 style - but I think the closest thing was Red Grant's garrotte watch - and that was WAYYYYYYYYY better in design - you could even tell the time.... [/quote]

Dr Spektor

Can we take that as a not recommended. And would yourself not perform this to others.

Thanks

Graham [/quote]

hmmm I see I was not clear...

so I shall say this:

NOT RECOMMENDED.
NEVER WILL I USE IT

I have contacted Penguin and fall upon their mercy - maybe I can get a download out of their kindness / pity as we all suffer together...

As for the other dealers - where are you now?

Well, as Pat Colney has tattooed upon her arm - CAVEAT EMPTOR

IDEA: At some magic conference we should all bring these with us and do some sort of Phantom demos - they must all flash the mechanisms, be akward, and never work correctly... we can have bottles not spin.... big globs of goo sticking out of things and such....

Special Anger: This product name has denigrated the word phantom.... and I like that word. We need to make a new product /item with this term to save the word!
Message: Posted by: pelicantrapper (Sep 8, 2015 10:45PM)
The video looked good. Still don't know what to think about this.
Message: Posted by: pelicantrapper (Sep 8, 2015 10:47PM)
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, Fire Starter wrote:
Has this site been hacked or was?,i kept getting some page up earlier on this thread ,some Saver thing?. [/quote]

This was happening to me as well. Not anymore though. Also, why is it that creators always have time to shoot a dvd /instructional video with a camera, but when we need a live performance the only available camera is an Iphone?
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Sep 9, 2015 03:09AM)
At this point, anyone who buys this and is still disappointed has no one to blame but themselves.
Message: Posted by: CarlMcCoy (Sep 9, 2015 03:53AM)
[quote]On Sep 8, 2015, Fire Starter wrote:
Has this site been hacked or was?,i kept getting some page up earlier on this thread ,some Saver thing?. [/quote]


It appears so...randomly happens to me on random threads about once a month. Doesn't seem to matter what browser I use either, although it's more prevalent on Chrome.

Annoying.
Message: Posted by: dynamite magic shop (Sep 9, 2015 04:01AM)
I know Peter very well for many years, he is an honoust guy and the last thing he will do is selling you a product that cannot be used in real performance or as is shown on a video. Magicians look at methods, which is wrong, you should look at the effect.

I think the problem is not in the pen but in the magicians head. In my opinion there are two kinds (maybe even more) kinds of magicians, roughly said:

1-The kind who perform magic professionally, they will see the possibilities and work an effect in their act and think about that. Because the make an ACT and a story to it there is a natural misdirection which makes almost every effect in the real world. These performers write their acts, think carefully about what to use and work on it. They often choose the EFFECT first and then choose which method they use to establish the effect. After the act is ready and tested and polished often in an excisting act they start using it. These people already ARE magicians as they do what a magician should do.....it is a real job en involves way more then buy a trick and put it onl youtube and show how good (ahum) you are

2-The kind who buy tricks, unpack it, watch the dvd, perform the trick as it is, get caught by their family as there is no act, no story and therefore no misdirection and therefore blame the trick from being poor. After they placed some orders online they put up a website and name themselves "magician". Don't get me wrong, I am not saying there are no poor magic effects but I can tell you (I demonstrate magic for over 16 years and do shows for over 25 years) that the most poor effects can be turned into miracles if performed well.

Now, in which category would you put yourself...and if you wanted to book a magician...which type of the two would you book? Does that make sense?

Just to think about :)

René
Message: Posted by: Dazzler UK (Sep 9, 2015 04:04AM)
It appeared to be a notorious browser hijacker, like the above post mentioned it doesn't matter what browser is running i.e. chrome, explorer etc. Apparently if a users equipment is infected it can do further damage if you're not protected properly. I would suggest running some scans to check for viruses and malware to anyone who has experienced this recently.
Message: Posted by: Christopher Williams (Sep 9, 2015 05:33AM)
I wonder...if people didn't know how 'The vanishing hanky' worked...they see two empty hands, there's a cut, they see the silk go into the hand and then it's vanished, then there's a cut, and then both hands are shown freely...if that trick was created today, and a video put out...would people still buy it? Or would they feel cheated because they didn't know there was a TT used that you couldn't see in the demo?

I also wonder, if the Hole hadn't come out, and this was his first release with a '007 pen'... would people still feel cheated? We all know a lot of marketed effects use a gimmick you don't actually see during the effect, but we don't moan then, well, actually on here people do. That being said, the video Peter put of the full performance, the pen is hidden behind the box, but it isn't a secret move, it's just held there and the spectator knows that. In the demo to this, it looks the same, just without the angle or part shown where the pen is behind the box... it is a cleverly shot demo, and if you can do what Peter showed in his full performance above with this pen, which I'm assuming you can, then I wouldn't have been disappointed personally if I received this, although yes I was fooled as I thought both hands were empty
Message: Posted by: magicman29 (Sep 9, 2015 05:38AM)
I would love to see a live performance of the haunted deck, could anyone justify the gap between the two halves?

Kieran
Message: Posted by: Paul S Wingham (Sep 9, 2015 05:41AM)
[quote]On Sep 9, 2015, dynamite magic shop wrote:
I know Peter very well for many years, he is an honoust guy and the last thing he will do is selling you a product that cannot be used in real performance or as is shown on a video. Magicians look at methods, which is wrong, you should look at the effect.

I think the problem is not in the pen but in the magicians head. In my opinion there are two kinds (maybe even more) kinds of magicians, roughly said:

1-The kind who perform magic professionally, they will see the possibilities and work an effect in their act and think about that. Because the make an ACT and a story to it there is a natural misdirection which makes almost every effect in the real world. These performers write their acts, think carefully about what to use and work on it. They often choose the EFFECT first and then choose which method they use to establish the effect. After the act is ready and tested and polished often in an excisting act they start using it. These people already ARE magicians as they do what a magician should do.....it is a real job en involves way more then buy a trick and put it onl youtube and show how good (ahum) you are

2-The kind who buy tricks, unpack it, watch the dvd, perform the trick as it is, get caught by their family as there is no act, no story and therefore no misdirection and therefore blame the trick from being poor. After they placed some orders online they put up a website and name themselves "magician". Don't get me wrong, I am not saying there are no poor magic effects but I can tell you (I demonstrate magic for over 16 years and do shows for over 25 years) that the most poor effects can be turned into miracles if performed well.

Now, in which category would you put yourself...and if you wanted to book a magician...which type of the two would you book? Does that make sense?

Just to think about :)

René [/quote]

As I said before; its not about this not working in my opinion, its about being equipped to make an informed decision before parting with your hard earned money. I am sure people would have bought this had the video have been honest; but it wasnt. It was dishonest. It implied a level of purety that simply doesn't exist and introduces an item not required in many other versions. Why would I replace an invisible loop with a pen in my hand? Sure some would, but I wouldnt as I know some people will suspect that pen.

Lets imagine this was the first ever haunted deck / rising card gimmick. I think the video would be fine becasue what other option do you have??. However it is not the only one and we all own versions already and this is just a different version. What seperates it from the other versions is the modus operandi as the effect is broadly the same; but we didn't get an important bit of information that would influence whether to purchase or not.

We can talk about what spectators will and will not pick up on and for what it is worth; I think they suspect a lot more than we give credit for, but social grace prevents them from blurting it out. However; the fact is that most haunted decks leave you with an examinable deck and no other objects in play. This one doesn't and that weakness was completlt hidden by deliberately shooting the video very well. To assume that no one will suspect the pen is naive to say the least.

So to repeat; its not the effect that is the problem; it is the way it was sold. Apart from genie; that's just not reliable enough to perform in a profession setting as it may not work.
Message: Posted by: Paul S Wingham (Sep 9, 2015 05:54AM)
[quote]On Sep 9, 2015, Christopher Williams wrote:
I wonder...if people didn't know how 'The vanishing hanky' worked...they see two empty hands, there's a cut, they see the silk go into the hand and then it's vanished, then there's a cut, and then both hands are shown freely...if that trick was created today, and a video put out...would people still buy it? Or would they feel cheated because they didn't know there was a TT used that you couldn't see in the demo?

I also wonder, if the Hole hadn't come out, and this was his first release with a '007 pen'... would people still feel cheated? We all know a lot of marketed effects use a gimmick you don't actually see during the effect, but we don't moan then, well, actually on here people do. That being said, the video Peter put of the full performance, the pen is hidden behind the box, but it isn't a secret move, it's just held there and the spectator knows that. In the demo to this, it looks the same, just without the angle or part shown where the pen is behind the box... it is a cleverly shot demo, and if you can do what Peter showed in his full performance above with this pen, which I'm assuming you can, then I wouldn't have been disappointed personally if I received this, although yes I was fooled as I thought both hands were empty [/quote]


But it uses a "007" gimmick that you need to do the trick and in fact it doesn't look so bad in the video, but why deliberately hide that fact in the video demo. You said yourself you were fooled becasue of what was missing which I assume means you also thought there was no pen involved and some sort of hidden gimmick. If the pen were present I think many people would just say; you know what; I'll stick to my current method becasue the trade of isn't worth the benefit and the effect looks cleaner without a pen. rather than spending £30 on a method that brings very little. Plus as others have said; how do you hide the break under the card in the haunted deck???
Message: Posted by: Mark8infiniti (Sep 9, 2015 07:36AM)
I cannot believe some people are still trying to defend this PIECE OF JUNK that was sold to us illegally through Deceitfulness.

Nothing can defend this, not even a full demo video from the creator. ERRRR, A BIT LATE I THINK???? After you've took everyone's money to release a live performance!! The cheak. Peter's response is worse than the product he's brought out. Where is his justification? His apology? POOR... VERY POOR indeed.

I wonder how many shots it took to get that video demo to work out? How many times the wax blob came off? Or stuck to other cards?

Do not defend this. It is the WORST TRICK OF ALL TIME, not just this year.

Goodbye and good riddance.
Message: Posted by: gdw (Sep 9, 2015 09:02AM)
It's funny how this use od the word "thread" has been employed by magicians/magic marketers for as long as magicians have used threads.


To be fair, there is not only a difference between thread and IT, but in the applications of both as well.
I'm not neccessarily defending the common advertising practises here, just kind of going on a tangent.

When one says "no invisible thread" they are, if we are giving them the benefit of the doubt, attempting to dispell a very specific notion. When considering the use of INVISIBLE thread in effects like animated cards and decks, we usually assume a line of thread out in the "open" at some spot.
That is, the "invisible" part refers to how the thread is "concelled" in performance.

For many, this is a drawback, the notion of a gimmick being that out there and potentially exposed, hence the common ad use of "no invisible thread." That, and playing to our constant desire for something "new." By telling you that it's not this one specific old method you already know about, YOU infer that it must be something "new." Or at least new to you. Not exactly the most "honest" marketing technique, but it's pretty much exactly what ALL marketing tries to do. And all magicians for that matter.

Any who, back to "thread": Non invisible thread is, while often employed for similar ends, for all intents and purposes, a completely different "thing." "Thread", or "wires" are, usually (in close up applications) actually conceled. IE, running beind or underneath something, as opposed to relying on it's own inherent properties to evade detection.

Long story short, while both are often used for very similar ends/effects, their actual implementation and execution is often quite different.
As such, a distinction between the two SHOULD exist when used in marketing/describing an effect/method.
Unfortunately, it is difficult, if not impossible, to then dispell the notion of one without simultaneously implying the use of the other.
If an ad for an effect went out of its way to emphasis that it was saying no INVISIBLE thread, they may as well be spelling out that it DOES use NONinvisible thread.
Similarily, you may notice some ads reading "no invisible thread reels." You can ususally bet, if you didn't miss that one word "reels", that the trick *** well uses invisible thread, or maybe it DOES use a reel, but it's wond with NONinvisible thread. Hence why they don't emphasis those key words. Again, if you saw "NO invisible thread REELS" you would likely read that as 'oh, so there's no REEL, but there's IS invisible thread.'


Perhaps we should push for marketers to develope, or adhear to their own fsort of standards and practicies,?
Perhaps use the common IT abreviation to specify INVISIBLE thread, and similatily ITR if tlalking about IT-Reels. "Thread" in the general can be assumed to refer to all thread, invisible or otherwise, and similarily "reels/pulls" can be considered all encompasing.

Just somethings to think about.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 9, 2015 09:54AM)
[quote]On Sep 9, 2015, gdw wrote:
It's funny how this use od the word "thread" has been employed by magicians/magic marketers for as long as magicians have used threads.


To be fair, there is not only a difference between thread and IT, but in the applications of both as well.
I'm not neccessarily defending the common advertising practises here, just kind of going on a tangent.

When one says "no invisible thread" they are, if we are giving them the benefit of the doubt, attempting to dispell a very specific notion. When considering the use of INVISIBLE thread in effects like animated cards and decks, we usually assume a line of thread out in the "open" at some spot.
That is, the "invisible" part refers to how the thread is "concelled" in performance.

For many, this is a drawback, the notion of a gimmick being that out there and potentially exposed, hence the common ad use of "no invisible thread." That, and playing to our constant desire for something "new." By telling you that it's not this one specific old method you already know about, YOU infer that it must be something "new." Or at least new to you. Not exactly the most "honest" marketing technique, but it's pretty much exactly what ALL marketing tries to do. And all magicians for that matter.

Any who, back to "thread": Non invisible thread is, while often employed for similar ends, for all intents and purposes, a completely different "thing." "Thread", or "wires" are, usually (in close up applications) actually conceled. IE, running beind or underneath something, as opposed to relying on it's own inherent properties to evade detection.

Long story short, while both are often used for very similar ends/effects, their actual implementation and execution is often quite different.
As such, a distinction between the two SHOULD exist when used in marketing/describing an effect/method.
Unfortunately, it is difficult, if not impossible, to then dispell the notion of one without simultaneously implying the use of the other.
If an ad for an effect went out of its way to emphasis that it was saying no INVISIBLE thread, they may as well be spelling out that it DOES use NONinvisible thread.
Similarily, you may notice some ads reading "no invisible thread reels." You can ususally bet, if you didn't miss that one word "reels", that the trick *** well uses invisible thread, or maybe it DOES use a reel, but it's wond with NONinvisible thread. Hence why they don't emphasis those key words. Again, if you saw "NO invisible thread REELS" you would likely read that as 'oh, so there's no REEL, but there's IS invisible thread.'


Perhaps we should push for marketers to develope, or adhear to their own fsort of standards and practicies,?
Perhaps use the common IT abreviation to specify INVISIBLE thread, and similatily ITR if tlalking about IT-Reels. "Thread" in the general can be assumed to refer to all thread, invisible or otherwise, and similarily "reels/pulls" can be considered all encompasing.

Just somethings to think about. [/quote]

Thanks for that utter nonsense. I've got a headache now.
Message: Posted by: Mark8infiniti (Sep 9, 2015 10:49AM)
Ha Ha Pegasus... I SECOND THAT!
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Sep 9, 2015 10:49AM)
[quote]On Sep 9, 2015, gdw wrote:
It's funny how this use od the word "thread" has been employed by magicians/magic marketers for as long as magicians have used threads.


To be fair, there is not only a difference between thread and IT, but in the applications of both as well.
I'm not neccessarily defending the common advertising practises here, just kind of going on a tangent.

When one says "no invisible thread" they are, if we are giving them the benefit of the doubt, attempting to dispell a very specific notion. When considering the use of INVISIBLE thread in effects like animated cards and decks, we usually assume a line of thread out in the "open" at some spot.
That is, the "invisible" part refers to how the thread is "concelled" in performance.

For many, this is a drawback, the notion of a gimmick being that out there and potentially exposed, hence the common ad use of "no invisible thread." That, and playing to our constant desire for something "new." By telling you that it's not this one specific old method you already know about, YOU infer that it must be something "new." Or at least new to you. Not exactly the most "honest" marketing technique, but it's pretty much exactly what ALL marketing tries to do. And all magicians for that matter.

Any who, back to "thread": Non invisible thread is, while often employed for similar ends, for all intents and purposes, a completely different "thing." "Thread", or "wires" are, usually (in close up applications) actually conceled. IE, running beind or underneath something, as opposed to relying on it's own inherent properties to evade detection.

Long story short, while both are often used for very similar ends/effects, their actual implementation and execution is often quite different.
As such, a distinction between the two SHOULD exist when used in marketing/describing an effect/method.
Unfortunately, it is difficult, if not impossible, to then dispell the notion of one without simultaneously implying the use of the other.
If an ad for an effect went out of its way to emphasis that it was saying no INVISIBLE thread, they may as well be spelling out that it DOES use NONinvisible thread.
Similarily, you may notice some ads reading "no invisible thread reels." You can ususally bet, if you didn't miss that one word "reels", that the trick *** well uses invisible thread, or maybe it DOES use a reel, but it's wond with NONinvisible thread. Hence why they don't emphasis those key words. Again, if you saw "NO invisible thread REELS" you would likely read that as 'oh, so there's no REEL, but there's IS invisible thread.'


Perhaps we should push for marketers to develope, or adhear to their own fsort of standards and practicies,?
Perhaps use the common IT abreviation to specify INVISIBLE thread, and similatily ITR if tlalking about IT-Reels. "Thread" in the general can be assumed to refer to all thread, invisible or otherwise, and similarily "reels/pulls" can be considered all encompasing.

Just somethings to think about. [/quote]

I think you do have a good point there.

I've been following this thread (sorry for the pun) as I agree that the demo trailer for this really should have shown the pen in hand.
I think it would be good to use peters video of his live performance on product pages too. I also think that the product text needs adjusting.

I was looking though it today, seeing how MoM could modify the ad copy to cover the destinction between thread and invisible thread.
The challenge is to do so, without exposing the method.
Many magicians don't like using invisible thread for the haunted deck because it is prone to break. We all go through a LOAD of loops etc..
Phantom does have this advantage, but how do you explain that it's a type of invisible thread rather than the traditional 'invisible thread' we love and hate.. !?!

So far I've corrected the ad copy to say that the gimmick 'hides in plain sight' and removed reference to No elastic and No Thread.

This one is very tricky to describe in a way that explains the difference whilst still retaining the secret.

MoM currently have Phantom on special offer at the moment. It's selling well, and there are a lot of people happy with it, as well as some wanting to use our 365 day return policy. if you brought Phantom from MoM you are totally welcome to pop it back to them if you don't think you will use it.

Best wishes as always
Dominic
Message: Posted by: Christopher Williams (Sep 9, 2015 10:57AM)
[quote]On Sep 9, 2015, Paul S Wingham wrote:
[quote]On Sep 9, 2015, Christopher Williams wrote:
I wonder...if people didn't know how 'The vanishing hanky' worked...they see two empty hands, there's a cut, they see the silk go into the hand and then it's vanished, then there's a cut, and then both hands are shown freely...if that trick was created today, and a video put out...would people still buy it? Or would they feel cheated because they didn't know there was a TT used that you couldn't see in the demo?

I also wonder, if the Hole hadn't come out, and this was his first release with a '007 pen'... would people still feel cheated? We all know a lot of marketed effects use a gimmick you don't actually see during the effect, but we don't moan then, well, actually on here people do. That being said, the video Peter put of the full performance, the pen is hidden behind the box, but it isn't a secret move, it's just held there and the spectator knows that. In the demo to this, it looks the same, just without the angle or part shown where the pen is behind the box... it is a cleverly shot demo, and if you can do what Peter showed in his full performance above with this pen, which I'm assuming you can, then I wouldn't have been disappointed personally if I received this, although yes I was fooled as I thought both hands were empty [/quote]


But it uses a "007" gimmick that you need to do the trick and in fact it doesn't look so bad in the video, but why deliberately hide that fact in the video demo. You said yourself you were fooled becasue of what was missing which I assume means you also thought there was no pen involved and some sort of hidden gimmick. If the pen were present I think many people would just say; you know what; I'll stick to my current method becasue the trade of isn't worth the benefit and the effect looks cleaner without a pen. rather than spending £30 on a method that brings very little. Plus as others have said; how do you hide the break under the card in the haunted deck??? [/quote]

Maybe because exactly as everyone has said here, it is similar in methodology to another release by Peter. I agree, when I first saw it I thought no pen was involved, that being said, I don't imagine any spectator going 'That card is rising out of the pack due to the pen you are holding!!', I can't imagine they would even suspect the pen for a single moment. It then comes down to personal preference on whether you want to use this method or others. Due to the nature of our industries there are constantly different methods or additional methods being created or adapted that suit someones performance style better than others. There are tricks that wouldn't suit me or my style that I stay clear from, likewise others would stay away from effects I like.

I can see why people would be annoyed, but also see reasons for why they shouldn't be, and I've just started to notice more and more people being a bit over the top (Not saying you are Paul) in their reactions, especially as I can guarantee there are people commenting on this product and slating it etc, when they don't even own it and are only commenting because due to what has been said in here the method has become apparent (Which wouldn't have happened directly from the demo video alone) and so they feel they have a right to slam a product. This will not suit everyone clearly, but it will suit some, and it is that market Peter has targeted with this. Unfortunately when releasing Magic, you can never sell to just your target market as nowadays it is too refined that unless you give out the method, you have to rely on people to just buy it and if they don't like it, sell it on.

What is next in the Magic world, people asking for a refund for Dynamic coins because they didn't realise from the demo there was a fake stack of coins!?!?!?
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Sep 9, 2015 11:19AM)
Bad comparison example with dynamic coins as if you see a vid performance of it you know the gimmick (if a gimmick is involved) must be to do with the cap or contained in the cap/s - as this is what's shown on the demo - unlike this example as the gimmick was deliberately and purposely hidden/left out of the performances, given the impression that a pen would never be in play if you bought this. More importantly given the impression that the performer would not have to illogically hold an item whilst having/needing to perform each effect. Also I know already established, but if he had shot a true and live performance in trailer, then there would be hardly any sales.
Message: Posted by: gtx magic (Sep 9, 2015 12:12PM)
[quote]On Sep 9, 2015, magicman29 wrote:
I would love to see a live performance of the haunted deck, could anyone justify the gap between the two halves?

Kieran [/quote]

Kieran.

Here is a segment from peters live lecture with Greg Wilson performing Haunted.

[youtube]bMsnFKf5ye0[/youtube]

Graham.
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Sep 9, 2015 12:22PM)
[quote]On Sep 9, 2015, gtx magic wrote:
[quote]On Sep 9, 2015, magicman29 wrote:
I would love to see a live performance of the haunted deck, could anyone justify the gap between the two halves?

Kieran [/quote]

Kieran.

Here is a segment from peters live lecture with Greg Wilson performing Haunted.

[youtube]bMsnFKf5ye0[/youtube]

Graham. [/quote]

that's not Phantom, that's Haunted.. I believe he is asking for a live performance of the haunted deck routine using Phantom
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Sep 9, 2015 12:25PM)
I think he's referring to the seeing the haunted deck performance using this gimmick
Message: Posted by: Saturn UK (Sep 9, 2015 12:30PM)
It is actually the version I devised Haunted 2.0.

Café readers can get free worldwide shipping by contacting me direct here is the link http://www.saturnmagic.co.uk/new-magic/haunted-20-by-mark-traversoni.html
Message: Posted by: gtx magic (Sep 9, 2015 01:01PM)
[quote]On Sep 9, 2015, PRINCE wrote:
I think he's referring to the seeing the haunted deck performance using this gimmick [/quote]

Here's peters live performance of phantom...If Kieran as not already seen it ! from the previous thread.

[youtube]RH_h0L2elps[/youtube]

Graham
Message: Posted by: Markymark (Sep 9, 2015 05:42PM)
Could'nt this video have easily been put up to begin with?

Like before people parted with their hard earned cash. Of course a lot of people would not have bought this if that was the case.Very calculating. It was clever to put 'no thread' in the advert which actually meant 'no invisible thread'
Message: Posted by: gtx magic (Sep 10, 2015 10:01AM)
[quote]On Sep 9, 2015, Markymark wrote:
Could'nt this video have easily been put up to begin with?

Like before people parted with their hard earned cash. Of course a lot of people would not have bought this if that was the case.Very calculating. It was clever to put 'no thread' in the advert which actually meant 'no invisible thread' [/quote]

Yes Markymark your right. Unfortunatly some creators will only resort to this when it effect sales after negative reviews.

And I agree had peter done this first time round I'm sure there would of been less negativity and untrust.Peter Eggink is a top guy and a good creative thinker. Lets hope this sets the bar for future demo's.

Graham
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Sep 10, 2015 10:22AM)
Well, I actually tried it out now. I thought I would return it but I will keep it as a reminder.

I am tempted to rip out the guts and see if I can repurpose it to fit into a ring you can wear.... at least then it solves some problems.

Anyone want to make a Ring ITR? Hmmm and you can switch out components for that or a magnet.... THE ONE RING! Give me credit nod if you develop it. :)
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Sep 10, 2015 10:39AM)
Except when you do the vid demo of each effect you can do with it, just remember to position the camera and film so it hides seeing the ring on your finger.
Message: Posted by: gtx magic (Sep 10, 2015 10:56AM)
Give Peter a "Ring" :gossip: he might have some idea's. Lol

Graham
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 10, 2015 01:24PM)
I don't believe the PM I just received. :rotf:
Message: Posted by: reignofsound (Sep 10, 2015 01:27PM)
[quote]On Sep 10, 2015, pegasus wrote:
I don't believe the PM I just received. :rotf: [/quote]

Too funny :)
Message: Posted by: magicman29 (Sep 10, 2015 02:03PM)
Sorry for not being specific, peters haunted deck rountine using the phantom gimmick live performance is what I was after.

Kieran
Message: Posted by: magicman29 (Sep 10, 2015 02:04PM)
[quote]On Sep 10, 2015, pegasus wrote:
I don't believe the PM I just received. :rotf: [/quote]

I think someone is talking the p*ss out of us moaning about phantom lol

Kieran
Message: Posted by: jaizon (Sep 10, 2015 02:13PM)
I think I'm gonna pass on this one.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Sep 10, 2015 02:30PM)
[quote]On Sep 10, 2015, jaizon wrote:
I think I'm gonna pass on this one. [/quote]

But think of the hours of fun you can have with this.... are you sure?!!??!
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Sep 10, 2015 02:35PM)
[quote]On Sep 10, 2015, magicman29 wrote:
[quote]On Sep 10, 2015, pegasus wrote:
I don't believe the PM I just received. :rotf: [/quote]

I think someone is talking the p*ss out of us moaning about phantom lol

Kieran [/quote]

[youtube]tIfZ4X6n9B0[/youtube]

[youtube]F_XaIuw6K6Q[/youtube]
Message: Posted by: luckyspotz (Sep 10, 2015 05:12PM)
[youtube]SWo-vDVajns[/youtube]
Message: Posted by: nornando (Sep 10, 2015 06:56PM)
I've scanned the bazillion comments, which mainly seem to focus on the "thead, no thead" thing, My issue lies with the marketing, I spent the better part of an hour, first getting the URL, then downloading the PDF which basically just directed me to a 'secret" Vimeo which I was never able to access. I looked at the pen, my computer, and decided this is no way to sell a product. Why should I have to go through all these steps just to learn a handling? Regards the pen idea, decided there were way better ways to accomplish the same thing, that this was either junk drawer material or return, which I did.
Bur my bigger issue is with this trend to supply streaming downloads (some of which can't even be downloaded). Why can't creators, marketers, spend a bit more and provide a *** DVD?
Message: Posted by: mikenewman (Sep 10, 2015 08:44PM)
Did you try typing the address in all lowercase? If you type it in all caps, it won't work.
Message: Posted by: jaizon (Sep 10, 2015 08:51PM)
[quote]On Sep 10, 2015, Dr Spektor wrote:
[quote]On Sep 10, 2015, jaizon wrote:
I think I'm gonna pass on this one. [/quote]

But think of the hours of fun you can have with this.... are you sure?!!??! [/quote]

Now you've gone and raised some doubt in my mind. But it's all those 1 star reviews on Penguin. What about them.
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Sep 10, 2015 09:50PM)
[quote]On Sep 10, 2015, nornando wrote:
I've scanned the bazillion comments, which mainly seem to focus on the "thead, no thead" thing, My issue lies with the marketing, I spent the better part of an hour, first getting the URL, then downloading the PDF which basically just directed me to a 'secret" Vimeo which I was never able to access. I looked at the pen, my computer, and decided this is no way to sell a product. Why should I have to go through all these steps just to learn a handling? Regards the pen idea, decided there were way better ways to accomplish the same thing, that this was either junk drawer material or return, which I did.
Bur my bigger issue is with this trend to supply streaming downloads (some of which can't even be downloaded). Why can't creators, marketers, spend a bit more and provide a *** DVD? [/quote]

Probably two reasons. One. DVDs add to cost and shipping and take from the profit margin. You might not think it would impact it much but it does. The profit margin on a product isn't $25-35. It's generally a pretty small percentage of price, so anything that cuts into that affects margin. Illusions don't sell millions of copies so every penny of profit is important. There are very few industries with big profit margins, hence the cutting in all businesses.,
Two. The majority of people don't want the clutter of having DVDs. While it's nice to have something physical most probably prefer having a downloadable video they can just store. Streaming is problematic for many and I agree with you but the trend isn't going to reverse.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Sep 10, 2015 10:19PM)
[quote]On Sep 10, 2015, jaizon wrote:
[quote]On Sep 10, 2015, Dr Spektor wrote:
[quote]On Sep 10, 2015, jaizon wrote:
I think I'm gonna pass on this one. [/quote]

But think of the hours of fun you can have with this.... are you sure?!!??! [/quote]

Now you've gone and raised some doubt in my mind. But it's all those 1 star reviews on Penguin. What about them. [/quote]

Hey you can smash the gimmick against a singing stone and make it sound like metal.... totally wild.....! and then glob the stone too.

Oh yeah - as soon as you get it you will want to SMASH it - SMASH it good!

Yeah, those Pengy 1 stars show nobody wants anyone else to get this effect because they ally want it to themselves. The sheer joy of getting the gimmick and then SMASHING IT TO SMITHEREENS and hearing it sing.....

I heard someone bought 20 of them at once so they can do a shelf-shuffling deck.... I think they plan to place the gimmicks in button holes of their shirts and sleeves and nostrils so they will not be seen!
Message: Posted by: writeall (Sep 11, 2015 01:33AM)
[quote]On Sep 9, 2015, dynamite magic shop wrote:
I know Peter very well for many years, he is an honoust guy and the last thing he will do is selling you a product that cannot be used in real performance or as is shown on a video. Magicians look at methods, which is wrong, you should look at the effect.

I think the problem is not in the pen but in the magicians head. In my opinion there are two kinds (maybe even more) kinds of magicians, roughly said:

1-The kind who perform magic professionally, they will see the possibilities and work an effect in their act and think about that. Because the make an ACT and a story to it there is a natural misdirection which makes almost every effect in the real world. These performers write their acts, think carefully about what to use and work on it. They often choose the EFFECT first and then choose which method they use to establish the effect. After the act is ready and tested and polished often in an excisting act they start using it. These people already ARE magicians as they do what a magician should do.....it is a real job en involves way more then buy a trick and put it onl youtube and show how good (ahum) you are

2-The kind who buy tricks, unpack it, watch the dvd, perform the trick as it is, get caught by their family as there is no act, no story and therefore no misdirection and therefore blame the trick from being poor. After they placed some orders online they put up a website and name themselves "magician". Don't get me wrong, I am not saying there are no poor magic effects but I can tell you (I demonstrate magic for over 16 years and do shows for over 25 years) that the most poor effects can be turned into miracles if performed well.

Now, in which category would you put yourself...and if you wanted to book a magician...which type of the two would you book? Does that make sense?

Just to think about :)

René [/quote]

You are a dealer. Would you agree not to sell products like this to amateurs/hobbyists? In other words, if you believe in the "two types of magicians" thing, aren't you ripping off the non-professionals if you recommend Phantom to them?

I'd like to hear your perspective on this. And, if you don't mind, what percentage of your sales are to professionals instead of amateurs?
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Sep 11, 2015 05:08AM)
Dynamite Magic Shop. That's a pretty ridiculous comment. Methods are huge part of effects and if the method doesn't make sense or move an illusion forward there is no reason for its existence except to make money. The problem isn't in people's heads it's that most people commenting have common sense and realize the handling looks ridiculous and unnecessary. And just because a great magician can perform a poor effect well doesn't excuse releasing a crap product. You sound like you're just making excuses for someone you know. The trick doesn't suck because people can't tell a story or use misdirection. It sucks because the handling adds an illogical step to a number of effects that can be done infinitely cleaner, because the gimmick isn't reliable, because you have to load a piece of something that will leave residue, because you need to hold s gimmick that is so poorly designed it can't even do what it's original use is, because the ads were misrepresentive of what the product was, because it's a poor mans ripoff of a much better similar product. I highly doubt many working magicians are going to use this, most pro magicians would do these effects much cleaner. It's much more likely hobbyists might if they can't figure out one of the hundreds of better handling a for haunted deck and rising card. And man, you have a pretty condescending view of hobbyists who have to make up a large part of your clientele. If I was them I wouldn't give you a dime as there are plenty of sellers who don't have that perspective.
Message: Posted by: EZrhythm (Sep 11, 2015 05:27AM)
[quote]On Sep 10, 2015, Slackerking wrote:

Probably two reasons. One. DVDs add to cost and shipping and take from the profit margin. You might not think it would impact it much but it does. The profit margin on a product isn't $25-35. It's generally a pretty small percentage of price, so anything that cuts into that affects margin.

There are very few industries with big profit margins, hence the cutting in all businesses.,
[/quote]

Different point of view here-

Bulk DVD purchases bring the price down substantially per disc and shipping costs are passed on to the customer so no profit reduction impact there.

...Profit margin a small percentage of the price? Hardly! You would be surprised what the profit margin is on magic products, especially the one's creators produce in China or with a distributor who has the product made in China. It happens much more than is generally known.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 11, 2015 07:29AM)
Well said Slackerking. He tried the old 'damage limitation' sketch for his buddy but failed miserably. :mad:
Message: Posted by: Wardy (Sep 11, 2015 07:47AM)
Sorry, but I gave this gimmick a serious try and there's no way you can do genie in bottle 100% as shown in the ad. No hard feelings against Peter, but not every song the Rolling Stones writes is a hit either.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 11, 2015 08:06AM)
[quote]On Sep 11, 2015, Wardy wrote:
Sorry, but I gave this gimmick a serious try and there's no way you can do genie in bottle 100% as shown in the ad. No hard feelings against Peter, but not every song the Rolling Stones writes is a hit either. [/quote]

Good attitude. You've obviously got more money to waste than me.
Message: Posted by: mikenewman (Sep 11, 2015 10:21AM)
[quote]On Sep 9, 2015, dynamite magic shop wrote:
I know Peter very well for many years, he is an honoust guy and the last thing he will do is selling you a product that cannot be used in real performance or as is shown on a video. Magicians look at methods, which is wrong, you should look at the effect.

I think the problem is not in the pen but in the magicians head. In my opinion there are two kinds (maybe even more) kinds of magicians, roughly said:

1-The kind who perform magic professionally, they will see the possibilities and work an effect in their act and think about that. Because the make an ACT and a story to it there is a natural misdirection which makes almost every effect in the real world. These performers write their acts, think carefully about what to use and work on it. They often choose the EFFECT first and then choose which method they use to establish the effect. After the act is ready and tested and polished often in an excisting act they start using it. These people already ARE magicians as they do what a magician should do.....it is a real job en involves way more then buy a trick and put it onl youtube and show how good (ahum) you are

2-The kind who buy tricks, unpack it, watch the dvd, perform the trick as it is, get caught by their family as there is no act, no story and therefore no misdirection and therefore blame the trick from being poor. After they placed some orders online they put up a website and name themselves "magician". Don't get me wrong, I am not saying there are no poor magic effects but I can tell you (I demonstrate magic for over 16 years and do shows for over 25 years) that the most poor effects can be turned into miracles if performed well.

Now, in which category would you put yourself...and if you wanted to book a magician...which type of the two would you book? Does that make sense?

Just to think about :)

René [/quote]


I understand that Peter is your friend. That's great you want to back him up and support him. I respect you for your efforts...

But your comments towards "Non-Magicians" as you say (Me!).
Your thinking is way off here. So, to be a "magician" I have to perform and get paid?? So.... I don't understand mis-direction?? Really??

I have been "fooling" my 12 year old son and his sisters and my GF for the last week with the "Cap flying back on the pen" magically. They are clueless. I even did the 1,2,3, where did it go (behind my ear) and they fell for it. I also perform for friends and other family. And for Soldiers at work. They all seem to LOVE that I share effects with them. Am I great at it? Heck no! Have I been caught on some things, sometimes, yep! Should I just give up magic?

So, I guess I have no business complaining about this crap release since I am not a professional. And obviously you need to change your Website to "Professional Magicians Only"! Fine with me for sure.

QUOTE: "...and if you wanted to book a magician...which type of the two would you book?"

Ummm. People looking to book a magician don't call me. I AM NOT A PROFESSIONAL so I do not do shows! They wouldn't call me anyways!!!

You need to accept that everyone is having an issue with this crap. It sucks! It is a fail. The darn thing failed to retract correctly on mine as well. Maybe if I knew how to "mis-direct", I can have the spectator look away so I can reel it back in manually. I guess that's my fault for not knowing how to misdirect.

On second thought, I should have kept this. I am just a NON MAGICIAN, I could have used to do the "Cap to pen" effect with it!
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Sep 11, 2015 11:11AM)
Well said mikenewman
Message: Posted by: chrislomas (Sep 11, 2015 11:46AM)
Mikenewman, well said. Not all of us are paid pro's. I serve and most of my audience are either family or military mates. I was gutted this received bad reviews, as I like many, wad blown away by the trailer for it. Well said indeed.
Message: Posted by: reignofsound (Sep 11, 2015 11:59AM)
[quote]On Sep 9, 2015, dynamite magic shop wrote:
I know Peter very well for many years, he is an honoust guy and the last thing he will do is selling you a product that cannot be used in real performance or as is shown on a video. Magicians look at methods, which is wrong, you should look at the effect.

I think the problem is not in the pen but in the magicians head. In my opinion there are two kinds (maybe even more) kinds of magicians, roughly said:

1-The kind who perform magic professionally, they will see the possibilities and work an effect in their act and think about that. Because the make an ACT and a story to it there is a natural misdirection which makes almost every effect in the real world. These performers write their acts, think carefully about what to use and work on it. They often choose the EFFECT first and then choose which method they use to establish the effect. After the act is ready and tested and polished often in an excisting act they start using it. These people already ARE magicians as they do what a magician should do.....it is a real job en involves way more then buy a trick and put it onl youtube and show how good (ahum) you are

2-The kind who buy tricks, unpack it, watch the dvd, perform the trick as it is, get caught by their family as there is no act, no story and therefore no misdirection and therefore blame the trick from being poor. After they placed some orders online they put up a website and name themselves "magician". Don't get me wrong, I am not saying there are no poor magic effects but I can tell you (I demonstrate magic for over 16 years and do shows for over 25 years) that the most poor effects can be turned into miracles if performed well.

Now, in which category would you put yourself...and if you wanted to book a magician...which type of the two would you book? Does that make sense?

Just to think about :)

René [/quote]


Wow!
If you were my magic dealer I'd find someone else to buy from.
What an elitist comment to make.

I think hobbyists probably buy more magic than professionals?
Message: Posted by: T.G. Jones (Sep 11, 2015 12:03PM)
When I used to be a dealer I would give new items (for free) to my best customers for them to try out before I would peddle them to others. At least that way I could sell them honestly using feedback from people I trust. Compare that to all of this pre-sale nonsense that happens now...

"Phantom is crazy. Peter Eggink has killed it with this product." Hocus Pocus

"The gimmick for this is very, very clever!", "I'm sure you will be using this at gigs!" - Merchant of Magic

"I watched the entire instructional video's which has FULL PERFORMANCES as the spectators would see it (including your secret handling of course) and I think it will be a great seller"- Dynamite Magic Shop

If I'd have taken that approach my reputation would have been shot to pieces in no time. I'm surprised these guys get any repeat business.

Compare the dealer hype to the reality...

"Ah jeez... this came today..... sorry guys... it's horrible."

"I returned mine for a full refund, no questions asked."

"It's horribly bad".

You know that review show, TNT - Trust The Trailer, maybe we should have a TTD show - Trust The Dealer. Now there's a thought.
Message: Posted by: Paul S Wingham (Sep 11, 2015 01:12PM)
If creators only sold to pros there would be no point releasing a trick. I imagine less than 1% of magicians do it for any other reason than love / a hobby

I feel for dealers when they get garbage like this. On one hand they risk annoying customers if they sell it. If they don't; they're stuck with the stock. If they wait for reviews, bu the time they get stock, we'll have moved on to the next trick.

Half the problem with the magic world is a) people scratch each others backs too much b) magicians seem scared to talk badly about "names". Throw in dishonest videos like phantoms and what chance do we have? I'd never say something is hood if it was rubbish. I've got too much respect for myself!
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Sep 11, 2015 01:22PM)
The irony of it all... 'Magicians helping magicians'
Message: Posted by: chrislomas (Sep 11, 2015 01:56PM)
[quote]On Sep 11, 2015, Paul S Wingham wrote:
If creators only sold to pros there would be no point releasing a trick. I imagine less than 1% of magicians do it for any other reason than love / a hobby

I feel for dealers when they get garbage like this. On one hand they risk annoying customers if they sell it. If they don't; they're stuck with the stock. If they wait for reviews, bu the time they get stock, we'll have moved on to the next trick.

Half the problem with the magic world is a) people scratch each others backs too much b) magicians seem scared to talk badly about "names". Throw in dishonest videos like phantoms and what chance do we have? I'd never say something is hood if it was rubbish. I've got too much respect for myself! [/quote]


Have a look at magic worlds reviews on youtube. James Anthony is pretty honest about tricks he reviews, as to whether he would use them etc. Even recommends similar items he would use instead.
Message: Posted by: LookyLookyMan (Sep 11, 2015 03:36PM)
[quote]On Sep 10, 2015, Slackerking wrote:
The profit margin on a product isn't $25-35. It's generally a pretty small percentage of price, [/quote]

utter nonsense. the margin on magic is MASSIVE. murphy's et al will give you around 50% of retail cost.
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Sep 11, 2015 03:42PM)
[quote]On Sep 11, 2015, EZrhythm wrote:
[quote]On Sep 10, 2015, Slackerking wrote:

Probably two reasons. One. DVDs add to cost and shipping and take from the profit margin. You might not think it would impact it much but it does. The profit margin on a product isn't $25-35. It's generally a pretty small percentage of price, so anything that cuts into that affects margin.

There are very few industries with big profit margins, hence the cutting in all businesses.,
[/quote]

Different point of view here-

Bulk DVD purchases bring the price down substantially per disc and shipping costs are passed on to the customer so no profit reduction impact there.

...Profit margin a small percentage of the price? Hardly! You would be surprised what the profit margin is on magic products, especially the one's creators produce in China or with a distributor who has the product made in China. It happens much more than is generally known. [/quote]

No, you're talking about the dealers. Bulk DVDs bring the price down for creators but it's still an additional cost and shipping costs aren't passed on the customer because I'm taklking about the developer shipping it to dealers not dealers shipping it to buyers. My business partner has another business who sells purses which are made in China for cheap and sold here for hundreds of dollars. You would think the profit margin would be huge but you'd be wrong. After shipping, taxes, all the fees to get it here, marketing, and other overhead the profit margins are much slimmer than you'd imagine. Just because a product costs a $1.00 to fabricate has nothing to do with the overall cost of making the product. After all is said and done profit margins in magic are very similar to profit margins in all business. You're mixing up dealer profit and developer profit but Dealer profit isn't any higher as they also have overhead and fixed expenses.
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Sep 11, 2015 03:44PM)
[quote]On Sep 11, 2015, LookyLookyMan wrote:
[quote]On Sep 10, 2015, Slackerking wrote:
The profit margin on a product isn't $25-35. It's generally a pretty small percentage of price, [/quote]

utter nonsense. the margin on magic is MASSIVE. murphy's et al will give you around 50% of retail cost. [/quote]

You obviously don't run a business. Margin isn't profit, they aren't making 50% profit. If they're making 10% after all expenses that's very very good.
Message: Posted by: Wardy (Sep 11, 2015 06:41PM)
[quote]On Sep 11, 2015, pegasus wrote:
[quote]On Sep 11, 2015, Wardy wrote:
Sorry, but I gave this gimmick a serious try and there's no way you can do genie in bottle 100% as shown in the ad. No hard feelings against Peter, but not every song the Rolling Stones writes is a hit either. [/quote]

Good attitude. You've obviously got more money to waste than me. [/quote]

I knew it had to be some type of thread watching the video, but the gimmick itself was a let down for the Genie trick. I thought the gimmick would have been more practical and therefore wasn't worried too much about the method initially.But the gimmick and the 'glob' of stuff just doesn't work for Genie. Thankfully I know when I buy from Penguin that a refund is possible, and Mert handled my request quickly and professionally. I now have 3 better tricks than this waste of time gimmick, and have re-learnt to wait for killer reviews before buying gimmick tricks. Lesson learnt for me, hopefully for Peter too.
Message: Posted by: mikenewman (Sep 12, 2015 12:18PM)
What are the 3 better tricks? Just curious.
Message: Posted by: dyoung (Sep 12, 2015 01:58PM)
I think it's pretty simple... IF the pen's not the problem, and it's all in the magician's head. Then why was it never shown in the video?

I wish magician's stopped trying to fool other magicians with these kinda trailers.

The thing that will go through any normal person's head is... why is he still holding onto the pen? He did put it away once, and then he took it out again for some reason.

If this wasn't just The Hole gimmick all over again, you could easily have made the pen write. No reason why you couldn't. Now you have to use a normal pen, and then switch in the Phantom. I mean, really?!?!? C'mon... let's stop this.

//Dan

(oh and yes, margins in a magic shop is tiny)
Message: Posted by: Wardy (Sep 12, 2015 08:43PM)
[quote]On Sep 12, 2015, mikenewman wrote:
What are the 3 better tricks? Just curious. [/quote]

Hey Mike,By better I mean fit my style and are very visual. The Vanishing by Jon Allen(qualified for free flat pack to Oz,hopefully get it this week, goes with Screen Test and French Postcards nicely),Download by Nicholas Lawrence(I'd been looking for a signature jumping to a signed card in a visual way for a while) and the Dave Deck(5 bucks and have already used it at a party a few times,great prediction for inebriated people!) So you can see why I'll be sticking with Penguin, awesome customer service!

Cheers from Oz, Wardy
Message: Posted by: EZrhythm (Sep 13, 2015 10:58AM)
[quote]On Sep 11, 2015, Slackerking wrote:
[quote]On Sep 11, 2015, EZrhythm wrote:
[quote]On Sep 10, 2015, Slackerking wrote:

Probably two reasons. One. DVDs add to cost and shipping and take from the profit margin. You might not think it would impact it much but it does. The profit margin on a product isn't $25-35. It's generally a pretty small percentage of price, so anything that cuts into that affects margin.

There are very few industries with big profit margins, hence the cutting in all businesses.,
[/quote]

Different point of view here-

Bulk DVD purchases bring the price down substantially per disc and shipping costs are passed on to the customer so no profit reduction impact there.

...Profit margin a small percentage of the price? Hardly! You would be surprised what the profit margin is on magic products, especially the one's creators produce in China or with a distributor who has the product made in China. It happens much more than is generally known. [/quote]

No, you're talking about the dealers. Bulk DVDs bring the price down for creators but it's still an additional cost and shipping costs aren't passed on the customer because I'm taklking about the developer shipping it to dealers not dealers shipping it to buyers. My business partner has another business who sells purses which are made in China for cheap and sold here for hundreds of dollars. You would think the profit margin would be huge but you'd be wrong. After shipping, taxes, all the fees to get it here, marketing, and other overhead the profit margins are much slimmer than you'd imagine. Just because a product costs a $1.00 to fabricate has nothing to do with the overall cost of making the product. After all is said and done profit margins in magic are very similar to profit margins in all business. You're mixing up dealer profit and developer profit but Dealer profit isn't any higher as they also have overhead and fixed expenses. [/quote]

Actually I was talking about the creator's profit and if the creator knows how to structure pricing then his profit margin will hardly be small. ( I never said "huge") In regards to shipping costs of developers sending their products to dealers- Yes, shipping costs are passed on if the developer knows what he is doing because he will factor that in when deciding or agreeing what amount the product will sell for. Regarding your friends business- I am familiar with profit margins of such a business example so they shouldn't be slimmer than I am imagining if he is being successful.

You stated, "Just because a product costs a $1.00 to fabricate has nothing to do with the overall cost of making the product." I believe you meant "marketing" instead of "making".
Message: Posted by: normative (Sep 13, 2015 12:02PM)
Postscript: Having played with this when it arrived & pretty quickly abandoned it as impractical & inferior to other methods for the same effects, I pulled it from the box today resolving to play with it & see if I could come up with some other use for it. It was, after all, sort of a clever gimmick, & I figured even if I wasn't about to rely on it for the most awkward haunted deck ever, it would probably be good for SOMETHING. After about 15 minutes of (I swear!) quite gentle experimentation——which largely involve guessing whether it would move an object, do nothing, or merely pull itself loose leaving a smear of wax behind again—the piece to which the wax is affixed snapped off. I take this to be the universe's way of informing me I'd wasted enough time on a cute but ultimately bad idea.
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Sep 13, 2015 05:26PM)
I think there is not much left to discuss this release. This thread can now be put to rest. :napping:

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: daniltan (Sep 13, 2015 07:21PM)
[quote]On Sep 14, 2015, Ustaad wrote:
I think there is not much left to discuss this release. This thread can now be put to rest. :napping:

:xmas: [/quote]
I'm agree with you, Ustaad. All different people. But, the reviews are pretty much the same.

P.S.
My Phantom is still OTW. Without knowing for sure whether it's already sent or not. There's no confirmation email from HP that they're already sent the package. So, I got no postal code to track the package. And my last mail asking about the delivery and possibility to return the "seems to be unused" product was not reply for almost a week now (if I remember correctly). I sent the mail to Mr. Paul. Not so happy about all of this.
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Sep 14, 2015 01:29AM)
This thread should keep going - if I was tempted to buy this (and from the trailer I would be) then just before I hit the buy button to check on here, this thread would save me and I would be so grateful
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 14, 2015 03:26AM)
[quote]On Sep 14, 2015, PRINCE wrote:
This thread should keep going - if I was tempted to buy this (and from the trailer I would be) then just before I hit the buy button to check on here, this thread would save me and I would be so grateful [/quote]

Alternatively you could conduct a search. Very good search engine on here now.
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Sep 14, 2015 03:43AM)
Yep the search engine is really good - but still like the awareness of this fiasco keeping in the limelight. Not that it makes a difference, but it shows that we as consumers are not prepared to put up with this so hopefully potential deceitful trailers and potential misleading ads and products, will get named and shamed.
Message: Posted by: James Conti (Sep 14, 2015 07:16AM)
HUGE UPDATE:

I had a lot of issues with Phantom. I couldn't get the darn thing to do what it was supposed to do. The rising card didn't work, the haunted deck was unpredictable, but the bottle trick was fine. I just got off a Skype jam with Mr Eggink and he helped me out so much!

We realised that the downloadable video didn't cover the minor touches and subtleties which allow the gimmick to work. I could never do the rising card, but he covered the notes he missed in the tutorial, and it is 100% sure fire now. No joke. And it's the small things that make the big difference. Same with the haunted pack, I am having a far more successful performance with it too. I am genuinely having fun with this gimmick now.

After chatting with Peter, he said he will be making a new tutorial video for those who have purchased Phantom, covering all the parts he missed and that are crucial for the effect to work. He said he will aim for in a week or so, but could be sooner or later.

I hope this helps someone. I can attest to my gimmick working 100% now, and I am glad Peter is taking care of those who have purchased Phantom and will be making this new video to cover the points missed in the original.

James
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Sep 14, 2015 08:25AM)
[quote]On Sep 14, 2015, James Conti wrote:

[/b]HUGE UPDATE:

I had a lot of issues with Phantom. I couldn't get the darn thing to do what it was supposed to do. The rising card didn't work, the haunted deck was unpredictable, but the bottle trick was fine. I just got off a Skype jam with Mr Eggink and he helped me out so much!

We realised that the downloadable video didn't cover the minor touches and subtleties which allow the gimmick to work. I could never do the rising card, but he covered the notes he missed in the tutorial, and it is 100% sure fire now. No joke. And it's the small things that make the big difference. Same with the haunted pack, I am having a far more successful performance with it too. I am genuinely having fun with this gimmick now.[/b]
[/quote]

I feel that Peter and his team have got into the habit of serving half-baked effect. This happened with Peter's Haunted Deck and now it is the same with Phantom. Such things happen when one tries to hurriedly putout effects in the market.

If one has the time, I suggest that you read just one page on Peter's Haunted 2.0 thread. This is exactly what happened to his originally released Haunted which was improved (in its working and method) later bringing out Haunted 2.0 but at the cost of putting additional burden on the original purchasers of Haunted (I'll call it 1.0). Here is the page: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?forum=218&topic=477408&start=90#20

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: daniltan (Sep 14, 2015 08:25AM)
[quote]On Sep 14, 2015, James Conti wrote:
HUGE UPDATE:

I had a lot of issues with Phantom. I couldn't get the darn thing to do what it was supposed to do. The rising card didn't work, the haunted deck was unpredictable, but the bottle trick was fine. I just got off a Skype jam with Mr Eggink and he helped me out so much!

We realised that the downloadable video didn't cover the minor touches and subtleties which allow the gimmick to work. I could never do the rising card, but he covered the notes he missed in the tutorial, and it is 100% sure fire now. No joke. And it's the small things that make the big difference. Same with the haunted pack, I am having a far more successful performance with it too. I am genuinely having fun with this gimmick now.

After chatting with Peter, he said he will be making a new tutorial video for those who have purchased Phantom, covering all the parts he missed and that are crucial for the effect to work. He said he will aim for in a week or so, but could be sooner or later.

I hope this helps someone. I can attest to my gimmick working 100% now, and I am glad Peter is taking care of those who have purchased Phantom and will be making this new video to cover the points missed in the original.

James [/quote]

To be honest, your post really helpful (at least to me). I did said that I'm asking for returning the product to Hocus Pocus (still no reply, though. I just checked my email. Nope. Still no mail from them. Beside the promotional mails). That request is based on the reviews here saying that the gimmick is not working properly. The other stuff like the knacky handling and "not so comfortable" method. I still can accept it. But, there's no way I want to paid for broken gimmick. So, thank you, James and Peter too.

Although, I still not sure if Hocus Pocus sent my purchase or not.
Message: Posted by: T.G. Jones (Sep 14, 2015 09:39AM)
So I take it you don't agree with what Hocus Pocus said about the product at the start of this thread?

"Phantom is crazy. Peter Eggink has killed it with this product. Wanted to let you all know there is an incredible coin retention vanish that is taught with this in addition to the card and bottle routines that are shown in the video. All borrowed items makes this even better!"
Message: Posted by: Mark8infiniti (Sep 14, 2015 10:35AM)
Please let this thread die like the woeful, insulting, sewage product it is. Phantom doesn't deserve to be talked about for a second longer, until the WORST TRICK OF 2015 thread is opened of course.
Message: Posted by: daniltan (Sep 14, 2015 10:41AM)
To be honest, I can't make comment to your post yet. I haven't received my order. What I want is a confirmation from HP that they already received my payment and sent my order. Now I'm not even sure if they've recieved my email. They did replied on my first email, though. I'll try emailing the same thing again to them. I hope this time they'll reply back to me.
Message: Posted by: Peter Eggink (Sep 14, 2015 11:01AM)
In addition to James' post, IF you found some issues in performing one of the phantom effects -this is not the gimmick malfunction but the result of some user issues that can be easily fixed. Just a few pointers really. The Phantom gimmicks work all perfectly -I checked and packed them all personally. IF for some reason one or two slipped through the quality control process and you received an factory faulty unit by accident, I'll be happy to send out a replacement at zero cost.

Will try to make a video this week as James mentioned.

Peter
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Sep 14, 2015 05:07PM)
User issues.

That 'splains it!
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Sep 14, 2015 05:44PM)
[quote]On Sep 14, 2015, Jack Straw wrote:
User issues.

That 'splains it! [/quote]

[youtube]CD9YqdWwwdw[/youtube]
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Sep 14, 2015 05:49PM)
You fools. The only thing to do now, for those that returned this 007 device, is to re-order and wait for the proper video-explanation to materialise. :rotf:
Message: Posted by: Wardy (Sep 14, 2015 10:47PM)
If someone can post a video of the bottle trick working at least 3 times in a row I might put some more time into trying to make that work. Thanks.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Sep 14, 2015 11:03PM)
[quote]On Sep 14, 2015, Wardy wrote:
If someone can post a video of the bottle trick working at least 3 times in a row I might put some more time into trying to make that work. Thanks. [/quote]


[youtube]yntaMVd7iNU[/youtube]
Message: Posted by: daniltan (Sep 15, 2015 12:02AM)
[quote]On Sep 15, 2015, Wardy wrote:
If someone can post a video of the bottle trick working at least 3 times in a row I might put some more time into trying to make that work. Thanks. [/quote]

This looks like a job for... JAMES CONTI!

*ehem!* by all means, I don't intend for James to put the video on public. You can PM the video to Wardy instead, James. That's if you want too, of course.
Message: Posted by: Wardy (Sep 15, 2015 03:19AM)
[quote]On Sep 15, 2015, daniltan wrote:
[quote]On Sep 15, 2015, Wardy wrote:
If someone can post a video of the bottle trick working at least 3 times in a row I might put some more time into trying to make that work. Thanks. [/quote]

This looks like a job for... JAMES CONTI!

*ehem!* by all means, I don't intend for James to put the video on public. You can PM the video to Wardy instead, James. That's if you want too, of course. [/quote]

Hahaha The challenge has been set!

I would love to be able to perform genie in bottle, it is a pain in the arse though to have to fool around with the gimmick and the pen to write/draw on the bottle.If anyone can seriously pull this off repeatedly I'd love some tips.
Message: Posted by: daniltan (Sep 15, 2015 11:33AM)
Just wanna chime in to tell that I finally get this on my hand. Thank you HP! The gimmick seems working perfectly. Haven't got the time to even finishing the video tutorial, though. But, I tried the rising card effect. No skill required-- but, yes! You still need to practice. Handling seems okay. Not that (OMG, why do you have to hold it like that?) weird, just like you normally holding it. These are my list of opinions: [list=1]
[*]No invisible thread - True. It's definitely not an IT.
[*]No loops - No.
[*]No elastic - No. No elastic. Yes, you're right. It's something else.
[*]No skill - but, need to practice.
[*]No magnet - No.
[*]All borrowed items - Sure. To other magician, maybe. Laymen doesn't carry a deck and sharpie with her all the time.
[*]Easy to do with zero sleight of hand - True. This is when you handling the gimmick. Not before.
[*]Always ready to go - I won't keep it all the time in my pocket. But, to set it work is easy. Just take it and place it in your pocket. You're ready to go.
[*]Instant reset - Yes, if you do it the way Peter teach.
[*]Extremely well made gimmick - Still waiting for the new tutorial video. And I just use it for rising card only. Haven't test the others yet.
[/list]
Do I like my purchase? Until now, it's okay. I get one cool gimmick. Can't use it right away, though. Until I'm sure I can do it perfectly.

THE *** THAT DOESN'T W****
I post this one in the secret session.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Sep 15, 2015 11:45AM)
[quote]On Sep 15, 2015, daniltan wrote:
Just wanna chime in to tell that I finally get this on my hand. Thank you HP! The gimmick seems working perfectly. Haven't got the time to even finishing the video tutorial, though. But, I tried the rising card effect. No skill required-- but, yes! You still need to practice. Handling seems okay. Not that (OMG, why do you have to hold it like that?) weird, just like you normally holding it. These are my list of opinions: [list=1]
[*]No invisible thread - True. It's definitely not an IT.
[*]No loops - No.
[*]No elastic - No. No elastic. Yes, you're right. It's something else.
[*]No skill - but, need to practice.
[*]No magnet - No.
[*]All borrowed items - Sure. To other magician, maybe. Laymen doesn't carry a deck and sharpie with her all the time.
[*]Easy to do with zero sleight of hand - True. This is when you handling the gimmick. Not before.
[*]Always ready to go - I won't keep it all the time in my pocket. But, to set it work is easy. Just take it and place it in your pocket. You're ready to go.
[*]Instant reset - Yes, if you do it the way Peter teach.
[*]Extremely well made gimmick - Still waiting for the new tutorial video. And I just use it for rising card only. Haven't test the others yet.
[/list]
Do I like my purchase? Until now, it's okay. I get one cool gimmick. Can't use it right away, though. Until I'm sure I can do it perfectly.

THE *** THAT DOESN'T W****
I post this one in the secret session. [/quote]

That reminds me of this.... especially around the 50 second mark in the video....

[youtube]j2nYqyfDMnQ[/youtube]
Message: Posted by: mikenewman (Sep 15, 2015 01:49PM)
But yet.....
You can use it for fishing!
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Sep 15, 2015 03:04PM)
[quote]On Sep 15, 2015, mikenewman wrote:
But yet.....
You can use it for fishing! [/quote]


Sorry the one in the picture actually has INK - the Phantom has none!
Message: Posted by: gtx magic (Sep 16, 2015 03:04PM)
World magic shop review on phantom.

[youtube]Maqa9LhRXOM[/youtube]

Graham
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Sep 16, 2015 03:40PM)
54+45=99!
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Sep 17, 2015 06:44AM)
Merchant of Magic are now sending an extra video to everyone that ordered Phantom, if they are having some problems in performing one of the effects. The video makes it really easy to overcome.

If you purchased Phantom from MoM and are still not getting on with it, remember you have a full year to return it and choose something else instead. So far out of all the units sold, we have only had 3% return rate, but I wanted to make sure you are 100% happy with the magic you order from the shop.

Wishing you the best
Dominic
Message: Posted by: mikenewman (Sep 17, 2015 09:20AM)
[quote]On Sep 17, 2015, Dominic Reyes wrote:
Merchant of Magic are now sending an extra video to everyone that ordered Phantom, if they are having some problems in performing one of the effects. The video makes it really easy to overcome.

If you purchased Phantom from MoM and are still not getting on with it, remember you have a full year to return it and choose something else instead. So far out of all the units sold, we have only had 3% return rate, but I wanted to make sure you are 100% happy with the magic you order from the shop.

Wishing you the best
Dominic [/quote]


That's a good deal and the right thing to do.
Glad you are doing this, and I am glad to know this for the future.

This may be too nosy, but have any of those been returned due to defectiveness?

Thanks for the info
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Sep 17, 2015 09:51AM)
[quote]On Sep 17, 2015, mikenewman wrote:
[quote]On Sep 17, 2015, Dominic Reyes wrote:
Merchant of Magic are now sending an extra video to everyone that ordered Phantom, if they are having some problems in performing one of the effects. The video makes it really easy to overcome.

If you purchased Phantom from MoM and are still not getting on with it, remember you have a full year to return it and choose something else instead. So far out of all the units sold, we have only had 3% return rate, but I wanted to make sure you are 100% happy with the magic you order from the shop.

Wishing you the best
Dominic [/quote]


That's a good deal and the right thing to do.
Glad you are doing this, and I am glad to know this for the future.

This may be too nosy, but have any of those been returned due to defectiveness?

Thanks for the info [/quote]

Hi Mike
I just asked Ben at the shop. Looks like we have only had 3 returned defective, one of which the customer simply wanted a replacement as they like the product. I don't know why/if they were actually defective though, the warehouse just throws the item in the returns bin and give the customer what they ask for, so I don't have data on that sorry.

The product doesn't need to be defective for it to be returned though, you can pop it back if you simply feel you will not use it. I'd rather customers got something they will find useful.

Hope this helps
Dominic
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Sep 19, 2015 09:21AM)
So has this now changed anyone's opinion ?
Message: Posted by: Michael Jay (Sep 20, 2015 07:31AM)
Andy, at 'The Jerx', offered a good system for precisely the problem that has cropped up on this thread. You might want to give it a look (it really is a good idea):

https://thejerx.squarespace.com/blog/2015/5/30/when-to-pull-the-trigger-on-that-magic-purchase

Mike.
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Sep 20, 2015 11:04AM)
[quote]On Sep 20, 2015, Michael Jay wrote:

Andy, at 'The Jerx', offered a good system for precisely the problem that has cropped up on this thread. You might want to give it a look (it really is a good idea):
https://thejerx.squarespace.com/blog/2015/5/30/when-to-pull-the-trigger-on-that-magic-purchase
[/quote]

In 'The Jerx Purchasing Principle', the article talks of "Impulse Price Point". It gives examples and suggestions we have all known and have learnt the hard way over the years. Innumerable times we have been fooled/cheated/bluffed/lied by the creator and their distributors & boys school supporters. And to add to the misery (which I and many of us have personally experienced), we find that any honest negative review (written with due logic, reasoning and with firsthand practical experience) that doesn’t suit the creator/distributor get mercilessly deleted. Hence I will say, it is NOT the 'Impulse Price Point' that is relevant here but rather it is the 'Impulse Purchase' that becomes much more relevant.

Impulse purchase is nothing but the desire to be the FIRST to get the new release. Invariably even the much seasoned performer falls into this 'Impulse Purchase' trap. So it isn't the Impulse Price Point that matters but it is our Impulse Purchase that plays a big role while taking a decision on any new magic release as we magicians are a highly inquisitive and impatient species. So one must try and control their Impulse Purchase and one shall be happy.

Just MY thoughts.

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: DavidKenney (Oct 8, 2015 07:01AM)
For anyone else still on the fence, I hope this helps

Creator: Peter Eggink
Publisher: Empty Hand Productions
MSRP: $35
Skill Level: all
DVD Run time: 35 minutes

Type of effect: Invisible Trick Realizer

Manufacturer's Write Up:

ALWAYS be ready to Astonish...

"Phantom" is a specially engendered utility gimmick that you'll carry with you everywhere you go. This new secret weapon allows you to perform killer effects such as the "Haunted Deck" and "Rising Card" like NEVER before. Use ANY deck, ANY time at ANY place, WITHOUT gimmicked cards, Sleight of hand, etc. Perform authentic miracles on the spot using BORROWED items! You are going to LOVE this gimmick!

Other effects include: Catch a "Ghost" in a BORROWED bottle and watch the bottle EERILY and MAGICALLY unscrew itself from the cap! Then, Hand the ENTIRE thing out for examination.

The gimmick is invisible to the spectator's eye and is easy & totally FUN to perform!

Key Points:
NO Invisible Thread!
NO Loops!
NO Elastics!
NO Skill!
NO Magnets!
All borrowed items!
Easy to do with ZERO sleight of hand!
ALWAYS ready to go!
Instant reset!
Extremely well made gimmick!

Comes complete with the special "Phantom" gimmick along with an HD streaming instructional video, showcasing different routines, ideas and performance tips

How accurate is the ad copy? the add copy can say what it says, because it can't' say what it is - I can't even show you the effect, or hint at what it's "sister utility device" is because THAT would give it away. I just think that if the add copy were more HONEST - then the RIGHT people could purchase this, rather than be vague and have people "guess" as to if they could use this or not.

In the video Peter says that these tricks are done "without card gimmicks or invisible thread." I just don't think that's being fair. It's a half truth. Of course there is a gimmick. Of course there is a "hidden element" (but we just can't use the word "invisible" or "thread") Not to mention that all the effects in the video are shot from a tight angle as to exclude the "clearly seen" gimmick in the actual performance. (The Genie in the Bottle performance is shot from underneath!)

What's in the box? The gimmick and a link to a streaming VIMEO instruction

How are the production values: Top notch, all shot in HD, great angles and

Is it well made: Very well made, with care could last you a very long time.

Is it well taught: very meticulous teaching, I think Peter does everything he can to
ensure you learn how to do all of the effects presented in the video. On the video you learn 4 effects, The Rising Card, the Haunted Deck, Genie in a Bottle (unscrewing bottlecap) and a "Phantom Vanish" which is Peter's take on a retention vanish with a coin.

Storage? Does it "pack flat?" The utility can be easily carried on your person and will "match" similar objects standard to a magician.

Does it "play big?" These "haunted" style effects get very big reactions. This is a very creative utility and I can easily see more of these "spirit move" tricks done with it. As Peter points out in his teaching, the "utility" even though it's visible in all of your performances can go by unseen by the spectator so long as it has a purpose. However, the fact that it IS SEEN - can draw heat to it, especially if you do two consecutive effects with it.

How practical is this in the real world? (can it really be done?) I think it can be a very practical idea, I'd be curious how it works in different lighting conditions - that said I think that for specifically rising card and the haunted deck - LOOPS are a more practical and more "invisible" utility. Of the 4 effects - the Genie in a bottle trick is the only effect exclusive to this gimmick.

How original is this idea? Both the haunted deck and the rising card can be performed with LOOPS and both can be performed with a borrowed deck with no advanced set up. A retention vanish can be done with only sleight of hand, and no complicated gimmick is needed.

Overall score: 8/10

+ If you want to see my full review with even more of my opinions and ideas you can visit this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSnRimNtaLM
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 8, 2015 08:11AM)
[quote]On Sep 15, 2015, Dr Spektor wrote:

That reminds me of this.... especially around the 50 second mark in the video....

[youtube]j2nYqyfDMnQ[/youtube] [/quote]
Message: Posted by: MikeTheKid (Oct 18, 2015 10:51PM)
How do you fix ? when the gimmick got separate?
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Oct 19, 2015 12:08AM)
I don't have this , but if this gimmick works exactly as Hole , then fixing it is possible and will not be very difficult .
Message: Posted by: ace620 (Oct 25, 2015 08:35AM)
Peter... have you gotten your updated video done?
Message: Posted by: Wabojeg (Dec 22, 2015 05:42PM)
[quote]On Sep 6, 2015, TuneHV wrote:
You guys are being too harsh. Comparing this to Change? Worst trick ever? Far from it, just suffers from some overhype and misleading ad copy / demo. We expected something else, and in that regard it didn't deliver... But the product itself is not as bad as this thread makes it sound- just not for everyone or the answer we were all hoping it to be. [/quote]


"JUST suffers from ... misleading ad copy." That isn't bad enough for you that they lied in the advertising?
Message: Posted by: Wabojeg (Dec 22, 2015 06:08PM)
So I feel as if I have to ad my two cents here, though so many have said it already. First, thread is thread, period. Was there a technical difference, yes. Was the use of that technical difference slimy, very much so. Second, if as Mr. Eggink says, having the marker in your hand is totally natural and motivated (which I agree can be true), then why doesn't he show that in the video? Is it the worst product ever? I doubt it. I've been buying magic for 40 years and used to get some really crappy fox lake stuff. Is it the most deceptive advertising? It is way up there in the top echelon, not a place I would want to be if I cared about my reputation. I can't recommend the product to anyone, not because of the gimmick, but because you are giving money to support dishonest advertising practices.