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Topic: Jeff Busby Hallmarked Paul Fox Cups
Message: Posted by: Rainboguy (Oct 5, 2015 08:42PM)
I was VERY fortunate to pick up a set of hallmarked Paul Fox Copper Cups at Denny & Lee Magic Studios on Saturday, September 26th while I was there for Dick Oslund's Lecture and book signing event.

I didn't realize until TODAY that the hallmarked sets were made by Busby. You never quit learning as a Magician.....

Just curious as to whether anyone knows how rare these may be?
Message: Posted by: Ray Haining (Oct 5, 2015 09:59PM)
I don't believe they were mass produced, but obtainable only by special order. Others here on the Café will no doubt know more about this.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Oct 14, 2015 12:12AM)
The Busby cups were basically produced to order. It is believed by a rather significant number of cup collectors that the first run of hallmarked PF cups were produced by Danny Dew and hallmarked by Busby. The stainless steel hallmarked PF cups were produced specifically by Busby.

I don't believe anyone knows exactly how many sets Jeff produced.

However, there were also a few hallmarked Paul Fox sets that were produced by Rings and Things II.
Message: Posted by: padre rich (Oct 17, 2015 01:34PM)
I didn't no that Jake hallmarked any cup sets . I did know that there were some Chop cups that he hallmarked PF for kicks and giggles.
Message: Posted by: Leo H (Oct 17, 2015 05:53PM)
I have an aluminum chop cup with the PF logo inside. Now I know its origins.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Oct 20, 2015 01:27PM)
Jake!
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Oct 20, 2015 10:42PM)
[quote]On Oct 20, 2015, Bill Palmer wrote:
Jake! [/quote]

XXX

Bill, still at the same # I'm usually available anytime after noon.

Jake
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Oct 21, 2015 12:17AM)
I'll try to give you a call soon. Right now, my throat is kinda busted out from a bout with a big dust cloud.
Message: Posted by: pepka (Oct 21, 2015 12:32AM)
I have a Paul Fox set by RNT2 and was kind of surprised they aren't hallmarked. I thought THEY own the PF trademark now. Why not use it?
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Oct 21, 2015 12:40PM)
[quote]On Oct 21, 2015, pepka wrote:
I have a Paul Fox set by RNT2 and was kind of surprised they aren't hallmarked. I thought THEY own the PF trademark now. Why not use it? [/quote]

There was only 1 set that was hallmarked and it was 1 set of Surgical Stainless, it's in the Museum. They were hallmarked on the outside of the saddle.
There was no way to get them hallmarked on the inside due to the depth of the cups. I was not pleased hallmarking on the outside thus the Stainless
steel was the only set. There were other factors that we looked at but again I wasn't pleased with the results. I think Donnie is having the same issue
with getting the depth problem that I had.

Mad Jake
Message: Posted by: Leo H (Oct 24, 2015 10:24AM)
I have a set of the Busby brass cups with stress fractures. They look live river illustrations that we see on maps.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Oct 24, 2015 10:54AM)
[quote]On Oct 24, 2015, Leo H wrote:
I have a set of the Busby brass cups with stress fractures. They look live river illustrations that we see on maps. [/quote]

I had a similar set that I won on Ebay. I wasn't much for brass and wanted to buy a set of JB Copper cups. There are
ways to fix a crack in brass. It just takes a bit of time, and a process called Magna Fluxing. If you could send me a picture
of the spider cracks and I can let you know if they're worth fixing or just leaving them as is. Jake Jr. does repairs here and
is very good at it.

Mad Jake
.
Message: Posted by: Leo H (Oct 24, 2015 11:44AM)
Thank you! Will get on this.
Message: Posted by: padre rich (Oct 24, 2015 08:05PM)
It is possible that jeweler with a laser could repair the cracks. Lazers are becoming fairly commonplace in the jewelry industry (at least in L.A.) Worth a shot anyway.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Dec 10, 2015 01:58AM)
[quote]On Oct 24, 2015, padre rich wrote:
It is possible that jeweler with a laser could repair the cracks. Lazers are becoming fairly commonplace in the jewelry industry (at least in L.A.) Worth a shot anyway. [/quote]

You would need a special laser called a Yag Laser to bond and cut metals. CO2 lasers just don't work quite the same way.

Jake
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Dec 13, 2015 10:42PM)
[quote]On Oct 14, 2015, Bill Palmer wrote:
The Busby cups were basically produced to order. It is believed by a rather significant number of cup collectors that the first run of hallmarked PF cups were produced by Danny Dew and hallmarked by Busby. The stainless steel hallmarked PF cups were produced specifically by Busby.

I don't believe anyone knows exactly how many sets Jeff produced.

However, there were also a few hallmarked Paul Fox sets that were produced by Rings and Things II. [/quote]

Let's not forget that Rings-N-Things spun the last run of PF/DD. Bill correct me if I'm wrong.

Jake
Message: Posted by: Rainboguy (Dec 14, 2015 07:09PM)
Ahhhhhhhh.............the Magic of St. Louis...!!!
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Dec 15, 2015 07:55PM)
That's absolutely correct. They were really fine cups. They have the Magi-poxy coating.

[quote]On Dec 13, 2015, Mad Jake wrote:
[quote]On Oct 14, 2015, Bill Palmer wrote:
The Busby cups were basically produced to order. It is believed by a rather significant number of cup collectors that the first run of hallmarked PF cups were produced by Danny Dew and hallmarked by Busby. The stainless steel hallmarked PF cups were produced specifically by Busby.

I don't believe anyone knows exactly how many sets Jeff produced.

However, there were also a few hallmarked Paul Fox sets that were produced by Rings and Things II. [/quote]

Let's not forget that Rings-N-Things spun the last run of PF/DD. Bill correct me if I'm wrong.

Jake [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Rainboguy (Nov 30, 2020 05:42AM)
Bringing this thread back to life.......

I'm just curious to know if anyone (especially you, Bill!) has an idea as to what a set of these Busby-Hallmarked Paul Fox Cups would be worth today?
Message: Posted by: Leo H (Nov 30, 2020 06:00PM)
The last time I saw a set of Busby copper cups sell on eBay about 4 or 5 years ago they went for about $500. That seems to be the range for PF/DD cups as well, give or take a $100, and it's held there for quite some time. The Busby heavy stainless steel sets have sold for up to $700 to $1,000 in past auctions. Busby brass cups haven't weathered the last 35 years too well. They're plagued with structural cracking.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Dec 27, 2020 02:20AM)
Rainbow, if you ever want to sell them, just PM with price and PayPal address, no price haggling guaranteed.
Message: Posted by: Rainboguy (Dec 27, 2020 12:05PM)
Mad Jake:

Thank you.

PM sent.....
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Jan 2, 2021 04:43AM)
Thanks Rainbowguy, I just sent a reply.
Message: Posted by: Rainboguy (Jan 14, 2021 04:02PM)
Mad Jake, Jr.:

Hope you're doing well....
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 25, 2021 10:41PM)
Copper cups, or more correctly, bronze cups don't seem to have the same problems with "work hardening" that brass cups do. There are several sets of cups in the museum that have cracked from improper annealing or no annealing at all. All of these are brass.

Some of the Paul Fox candy bowls had the same problems.

As far as the prices of the Busby cups are concerned, perhaps they haven't increased in price like one would expect simply because people did not like Jeff Busby.
Message: Posted by: Leo H (Jan 26, 2021 11:16AM)
[quote]On Jan 25, 2021, Bill Palmer wrote:As far as the prices of the Busby cups are concerned, perhaps they haven't increased in price like one would expect simply because people did not like Jeff Busby. [/quote]

I also wondered if Busby's notoriety had affected the desirability of his books and props in the secondary market. The prices these items have commanded in the last 20 years tells me it hasn't. His book on the Palmetto decks keeps selling at healthy prices on the big action site. A copper set of his cups commands about as much as a vintage set of DD/PF cups. On the J.P. Jackson Potter Auction his Chick cups and steel set went for high prices.
Message: Posted by: Rainboguy (Jan 29, 2021 10:28AM)
Leo H:

Interesting that you would mention J.P.Jackson's Chick Cups on the Potter Auction....

J.P. Was a member of the Houdini Club, a very nice man and a friend, and I remember him showing me his set of brass chick cups many years ago during a Houdini Club Convention. When I bought my set of Paul Fox Busby Hallmarked Cups from Denny Haney in September of 2015, Denny had a set of Paul Fox Chick cups for sale, too....If I remember the price at that time, I believe he was asking for.....I think it was somewhere in the range of $900-$1,250. I don't know or remember if that set was hallmarked but darn....those cups were big and HEAVY and I believe that one of them had a small stress fracture, too.
Message: Posted by: Leo H (Jan 29, 2021 12:55PM)
THAT was a great anecdote Rainboguy! I'm not surprised that Denny was asking $900 and upwards for that set of brass chick cups. JP's brass set on the Potter Auction sold in that range. This indicates that Busby's notoriety hasn't made a dent in the magic collectibles market. Magic collectors seem to have forgiven his behavior.

Unfortunately time has not been kind to the brass cups that Busby and Danny Dew produced. Quite a number have succumbed to stress fractures over the years. It's prolly a good idea to leave those brass sets on display and not touch them.
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Feb 2, 2021 06:31PM)
[quote]On Jan 25, 2021, Bill Palmer wrote:
Copper cups, or more correctly, bronze cups don't seem to have the same problems with "work hardening" that brass cups do. There are several sets of cups in the museum that have cracked from improper annealing or no annealing at all. All of these are brass.[/quote]

Hey Bill! it's been awhile since I've asked this so I thought I might give it another go. Is the cups and balls museum up and running again? And if so might I possibly have access? It's been so long that I cannot remember my old password for the life of me, if that would even be valid now...

Hope you're well, good sir!
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Feb 9, 2021 07:03PM)
[quote]On Feb 2, 2021, gaddy wrote:
[quote]On Jan 25, 2021, Bill Palmer wrote:
Copper cups, or more correctly, bronze cups don't seem to have the same problems with "work hardening" that brass cups do. There are several sets of cups in the museum that have cracked from improper annealing or no annealing at all. All of these are brass.[/quote]

Hey Bill! it's been awhile since I've asked this so I thought I might give it another go. Is the cups and balls museum up and running again? And if so might I possibly have access? It's been so long that I cannot remember my old password for the life of me, if that would even be valid now...

Hope you're well, good sir! [/quote]

Yes, it's up and running. Go to the cups and balls museum home page and follow the instructions there to get a username and password.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Feb 9, 2021 07:04PM)
[quote]On Jan 29, 2021, Rainboguy wrote:
Leo H:

Interesting that you would mention J.P.Jackson's Chick Cups on the Potter Auction....

J.P. Was a member of the Houdini Club, a very nice man and a friend, and I remember him showing me his set of brass chick cups many years ago during a Houdini Club Convention. When I bought my set of Paul Fox Busby Hallmarked Cups from Denny Haney in September of 2015, Denny had a set of Paul Fox Chick cups for sale, too....If I remember the price at that time, I believe he was asking for.....I think it was somewhere in the range of $900-$1,250. I don't know or remember if that set was hallmarked but darn....those cups were big and HEAVY and I believe that one of them had a small stress fracture, too. [/quote]

I have a set of Busby Chick Cups in bronze. They are not hallmarked.

None of my Danny Dew brass PF cups are cracked. At least, they weren't last time I looked!
Message: Posted by: Leo H (Feb 11, 2021 02:01PM)
[quote]On Feb 9, 2021, Bill Palmer wrote: I have a set of Busby Chick Cups in bronze. They are not hallmarked.

None of my Danny Dew brass PF cups are cracked. At least, they weren't last time I looked! [/quote]

The Busby Chick Cups were not hallmarked. Most likely cuz the hallmark punch stamp was not long enough to reach inside the depth of the chick cup.

I have a set of brass Danny Dew PF cups I got cheap from a Martinka auction years ago. All three of the cups are heavily cracked.