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Topic: Trolls and Bullies on the threads
Message: Posted by: Zerububle (Mar 7, 2016 07:55AM)
Hi all

I'm not a regular here but do occasionally pop in and make a comment or two. The main reason I don't some back regularly is the constant abuse and criticism from a couple of members. These people attack anyone who questions their views and stamp on anyone who's not to 'their level'. It has made this forum unbearable for many. There are 2 obvious culprits who seem to troll these boards. They claim to be all knowing yet fail to show any constructive commentary choosing instead to attack and criticise anyone who disagrees with their interpretation of the subject.

I cannot be the only one infuriated by their bully like tactics..

I don't doubt the wealth of knowledge these people may have to offer but I also believe their online presence is often poisonous - there's a good chance they will fail to appreciate my intent on posting this (making this forum of benefit to all) and show themselves all to clearly in their replies (which are clearly evident with only a cursory scan through these threads)

Just for transparency...

James Brown
Dorset UK
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Mar 7, 2016 12:50PM)
James, I believe I have made a similar point in the past. I have clashed with some people here and later found out they were nice people. But if I hadn't stuck around I would not know that.

We can be judgemental and superior here, more than on other sections of the Café. I wish it were not so, because like you I feel it drives people away and stifles conversation.

Like you, for transparency, Tony Galvin.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Mar 7, 2016 01:07PM)
I have clashed with Tony in the past. But I actually invited him (VERY seriously.) for a holiday dinner at my house. Actually it is any dinner and an open invite.

As he said he stayed here. Otherwise it wouldn't happen.

What you seek to do is bully people into acting in a way you think of as acceptable. Sorry. All people act as they wish and if you came in and interacted with everyone on a regular basis instead of dictating what you want to happen it would be easier.

That is how life works. You don't get what you want and get to dictate how people in a public forum act by starting a thread complaining. Get more involved with discussions.

Tony and I have different views on hypnosis. I respect his views as they come from experience. The real problem is having an opinion based on nothing but opinion. What you "think" the right answer is. To think such an opinion varies as much weight as decades of experience is silly. What is poisonous is dissemination of bad information by the uninformed.

Why would anyone even want bad information? What good will it do you?
Message: Posted by: Munken (Mar 7, 2016 03:35PM)
James, you are the last of many that ran into the wolf pack.

Communication or attitude has nothing to do how nice people. Properly you are all nice, in another context. There is just a problem in the communication department.
I have read a lot of threads where the communication got sidetracked because of this pack. I myself, made a comment on a thread where the knowledge people, made statement based upon the fact that a magician was behind the screen and therefor it was crap. They had not seen the material that the where criticizing. Well that did not go all that well.

I will chime in here because my point was not about hypnosis, but alone on professionalism in making comment or replying to a thread. I have been a CEO for more than 25 years so this is something I know about and have seen more than once.
Message: Posted by: Munken (Mar 7, 2016 03:36PM)
The communication is based on management by fear. It is an antiquated form of management and mostly used by the older generation. The main point is to dominate the other part. That gets the sensation of winning the discussion. What it does in reality is the opposite. If you use this form for communicating you will lose respect from the other part. The respect when lost is hard to regain. The part being dominated will eventually end the communication because common sense tells then it is pointless to go on. Another feeling of victory for the dominant. But nothing further from the truth that feeling is.

If you push the dominant part far enough with argument the eventually will seek to the next level. It is starting the child/parent conversation. They are the parent and the other part is the child. This is the point of no return. All communication is wasted after that.

The only way to stop this kind of communication is to be the manager. They will never admit having a problem, and it is all the other idiot, that are wrong.
Message: Posted by: Munken (Mar 7, 2016 03:36PM)
The child/parent communication has root in many personal problems. One of the more common is lack of self-esteem. Not to be mistaken for self-confidence. I am not saying it is so because that would require a long conversation and evaluation. It could be a simple attitude of superiority. It could have been picked up in kinder garden and stayed on as a means of power full communication.

The postulation that to have an opinion in here you should have at least 20 years of working experience is arrogant and narrow minded. There are good performers and bad performers. There are great theoretic masterminds that have never performed. If you make any comments in here it is because you have some kind of knowledge on the field. The counter opinion should be more solid than “yea another idiot” or you will lose respect. At some point the respect from friends will diminish and if they are real friends the will tell you the reason.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Mar 7, 2016 03:49PM)
Do you do tarot cards? Can I book you for a reading?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Mar 7, 2016 03:51PM)
Yea it is always one side that is wrong. Oh and never one you agree with. Nice pop psycho babble, but off the mark. Like it or not all opinions ate not created equal. If I was to roll in after 2 years and tell you things that you know are wrong about being a CEO how would that conversation go exactly? If you and 4 of your 25 year CEO bodies were in a pub and someone with 3 yeasts under his belt, or better yet just read a few books about it starts telling you that your ideas are just wrong and you ate clueless and their way is THE NEW WAY? How would that be received? Be honest here they would be laughed out of the joint.

The idea that experience counts for nothing is Ludicrous. It is generally apposed by the inexperienced.

So Lets not play your silly card of "I've seen this a lot". Mainly because I have seen this, what you are attempting to do, a LOT. Heck when I had no experience I didn't try it. Why? Because I was more interested in LEARNING. Give it a try.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Mar 7, 2016 03:53PM)
Too many "opinions" being bantered bout and not enough facts, in my opinion (lol). There is a difference. Maybe you come here for opinions, most I hear from come here for knowledge, experience and facts. Those that take away the most do so not with opinions but again, knowledge, experience and facts.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Mar 7, 2016 03:55PM)
Wait now let him tell us how condescending we are being. That is the next step.
Message: Posted by: Munken (Mar 7, 2016 04:18PM)
There are not always a wrong. More often there are ways of doing things. The new way could be interesting because ideas get formed based on knowledge from others. You all have learned the hard way or at least not as easy as the next generation. The trainee could be the one with the golden theory. You should stay open minded and debate the new way. If your mind is open you could get something out of it, and if not, you can make your point.

I would newer laugh at anyone, I would enlighten them. If the arguments are well founded it is not difficult. If the other part just have another idea of how the world spins then it is fine be me. I would respect the guy anyway and by him a beer. That is how to get respect.

And I would newer comment on anything a have not read or seen.

I am here for the knowledge and not for the retorik opinions.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Mar 7, 2016 04:35PM)
No. Apparently you are here to tell others what to do. You think that gets you respect?

Not every theory has merit. Some things are just wrong. Experience can tell you this.

All the psycho babble in the world can not get around reality. Keep spinning it and keep telling others how to act. Apparently this is how you gain knowledge. Is that how you rose to be a CEO? When you were starting out telling the more experienced you want to learn from how to act?
Message: Posted by: Munken (Mar 7, 2016 05:58PM)
Ooh, Danny now your getting off again. At no point have I told you how to act. I did tell you that your way of reacting is bad for respect. You are seeking respect not building it.

Keep an open mind, you could might learn something.

You hit the nail this time. I have told the seniority how things should be done, and they actually listened to me. That is called progress and renewal. Mentalisme and hypnosis could might gain from progress and innovation. That is not to say everything new is a gift but once in a while it is.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Mar 7, 2016 06:03PM)
Yea I am sure you just walked in and started doing exactly what you're don't now. Hard to believe

Perhaps if you took your own advice YOU could learn something. Oh no wait you know everything already.

See I don't particularly care if you respect me. That is where your ego is getting in the way.
Message: Posted by: Munken (Mar 7, 2016 06:05PM)
Point of no return. Bye Bye.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Mar 7, 2016 06:10PM)
The point of no return was you breezing in here with no introduction and starting to dictate terms and give us a bunch of psycho babble.

God forbid you learn something. Nope you just want to preach at us and tell us how to act.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Mar 7, 2016 06:17PM)
[quote]On Mar 7, 2016, Munken wrote:
There are not always a wrong. More often there are ways of doing things. The new way could be interesting because ideas get formed based on knowledge from others. You all have learned the hard way or at least not as easy as the next generation. The trainee could be the one with the golden theory. You should stay open minded and debate the new way. [/quote]

Here's the problem with your logic. If there was anything new, a breakthrough, new methods, advancements, etc. (which there have been over the years) they would not be revealed or introduced here. They are introduced, tested, revised and tweaked in the and run through the scrutiny of the actual hypnosis community, not a magic forum. Only once they are presented and well analyzed in the hypnosis community would they ever even begin to show up here.

The only things that get introduced or revealed here (as anyone who has been a member here for any length of time knows) is "hypnosis (or fake hypnosis) for magicians." This is the stuff that is almost ALWAYS quite suspect, sub-par, typically offered by someone with little or minimal real experience in actual hypnosis and yes, what many would deem wrong. The problem is many that wonder in here may not know or realize this. We often are creating the true reality and proper perspective. We also do not want some of the mentalities of magic to be brought into our industry.

As Danny said, there is absolutely, 100% no substitution for experience and reality. It can't be rushed, it can't be faked. You can bend or twist things all you want, it all comes down to this. This all begins with proper information, education and knowledge as the foundation. Not shortcuts, pretend, facimilies, faux or pseudo.

As far as what you said above, we most definitely have a different definition of "respect" for sure.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Mar 7, 2016 06:18PM)
[quote]On Mar 7, 2016, Dannydoyle wrote:
The point of no return was you breezing in here with no introduction and starting to dictate terms and give us a bunch of psycho babble.

God forbid you learn something. Nope you just want to preach at us and tell us how to act. [/quote]

Which is also quite common with most newcomers here, yet they wonder why they get called out on their "opinions".
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Mar 7, 2016 06:36PM)
Point is spend the time to learn what is there, THEN try to change it. Until you have basics no I am not going to debate the "new". It is lazy.

A debate is between peers about a common knowledge. Not between a person with no knowledge or a person seeking knowledge.

You misrepresent the issue. Nobody just asks questions. They go to tell the people answering with decades of experience that they are wrong. So at that point you get what you get. Lets at least be honest about what you are crying about.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Mar 7, 2016 07:01PM)
Wow, that escalated quickly!

Danny, the day will come when we break bread. I look forward to it. MP, I will be back to Edinburgh to annoy you within the year.

This can be an intimidating place, James is right on that. I won't say anything more in case I fan the flames!
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Mar 7, 2016 07:06PM)
What about when I asked if I could be shown some videos of performers that didn't do 'standard' comedy hypnosis and was ignored? http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=604741&forum=22

Or when Tristan14 asked about The Trilby Connection and got responses regarding Fraser Parker? http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=602376&forum=22 (Except me - because I've seen both the sets he was referring to)

People do ask questions. And they get shot down, belittled, and/or ignored.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Mar 7, 2016 08:48PM)
You are misinterpreting perpetuating the problem with being ignored. For example, your request for some videos is not anything I would ever support or encourage. I believe it is wrong to post or suggest others videos. It is one of the greatest problems with out art (and attempting to learn our art) today as everyone seeing others videos on youtube. Rather than encourage it and rather than stating why it is not encouraged and risk the issue of my response being taken out of context or you reading something into it that doesn't exist, I choose to pass and see if anyone else would assist you. Hence my other point, if the ones (you know the trolls and bullies) you and others seem to be targeting with this thread, if we didn't respond or assist, it wouldn't get done.

So which is it? You want us to assist and not care for what we offer or how it's presented, or for us to chose to take the high road and not create an issue and disregard it only to have you feel you were being ignored. It's a lose-lose situation.

As far as Tristan's request, he stated he is a Head Hacking student and has many of their materials, plus he is new here, and likely would like to hear the responses he is hoping to hear. It too would evolve into what you guys would deem attacking, not encouraging his, and all of your other "opinions." The products he mentioned are created and targeted for magicians, again, part of the problem. Not what many would consider true hypnosis training. I think they were greatly responsible for the wave that has finally subsided that we have been speaking about here. Do I care to encourage this? Of course not. Again, so not responding wasn't right with you, and if we would have responded you wouldn't have cared for what we were saying. We shouldn't need to defend ourselves, our positions and reasons for not responding. Again, lack of understanding, appreciation and respect. Yet you claim it is belittling. Really?

Bottom line is he wouldn't have liked what he would have been told so, out of courtesy, he was spared. Maybe Anthony would have chimed in to tell him what he wanted to hear. It didn't happen. Also if he took the time to search the forum, he would have understood all of this and these positions and perspectives. It's all well documented. Our job here is not to handhold everyone who wanders in here. If they want to come with an open mind and learn from those with experience and demonstrate respect, great, there are many here who will share. But if it's just to gain faux support in what he thinks (based on lack of/minimal education and knowledge), I prefer not to perpetuate that myself. Hope this clarifies and creates the proper perspective for you and the points you presented.
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Mar 7, 2016 09:33PM)
I would appreciate it if you would not make assumptions about myself or my comprehension skills. You do not know me. You do not know what I am able to comprehend or not. To enlighten you, I can comprehend the concept of not wanting to share videos for that reason. It's reasonable and understandable. Had you taken the time to dismount your high horse and give that response, I can tell you I would have said, "Ok! I understand and respect that position."

It seems to me you (collectively) are not very concerned with people finding the right resources to learn this art and skill because you rarely take the time to bother guiding anyone beyond, "Find personal training." Ok, that is great advice. But if that is all you have to say then this forum is pretty pointless isn't it? We could just pin a post up top that says, "Google a personal trainer and come back after 20 years of performances."

Not everyone knows to search forums. Not everyone is savvy with this form of communication any more. They are not nearly as popular as they were even a few years ago. Now it's all Facebook and Twitter. So apparently, to be deserving of any respect on this forum you must be an expert with decades of experience and also savvy in outdated internet based communication methods? Doesn't seem terribly welcoming to me.

I just don't understand it, personally. Maybe the old guard here is just tired of answering same questions over and over? I can understand that. It gets tedious answering the same questions over and over and feeling like no one is learning. That's pretty much my day job right there. But I still make a point to create a response to every new magician wanting to overcome stage fright, or figure out how to create routines, or how to get more paid gigs. Because I was once where these people are now, and I had people who responded to my emails.

Everyone deserves basic respect and manners. I do not have the experience you guys have, that is true. Not even a third of it. But there is no way I will ever get to that point if I didn't go through what I've already gone through to get where I am now. And there's no way you could have gotten to where you are without being a rank amateur at one point as well. Someone (Or multiple someones most likely) responded to your questions and helped you learn. These people asking these questions are in the same place - they're just looking for answers to questions. Is that such a crime?

This place does not welcome new learners, does not encourage anyone I have seen, and therefore is doing nothing to develop the knowledge and skill of hypnosis.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Mar 8, 2016 09:12AM)
You have a unique knack and great talent for just naturally taking things out of context to reflect things never said. I never referred to anything about your comprehension skills. I simply explained my own personal reasons for not responding to your inquiring, and exactly as I predicted you are responding as expected. That was the entire point you've seemed to missed, yet you added something that was never there.

I regularly offer sources and resources when applicable. I've regularly talked about my own trainings (and others I suggest), even taking 1-3 students on the road with me as part of my annual Spring tour to allow for the entire real-world, hands-on experience and to see and experience all facets of stage hypnosis performing from the business, marketing, behind the scenes aspects to the show and after. Again, if you were here with any regularity you'd know this and probably, like other regulars here, would be tired of hearing me say this over and over again.

Again, it's about you being part of the community and how you choose to fit in and participate. You must be a magician, as this seems to be common to those that come to hypnosis from magic. Unrealistic expectations.

In reality to me things are exactly the opposite of what you've said here. The community has been consistent for years. It seems that there is only the few of you that are sharing this problem and all of you have some of the same approach - not regular contributing members, only pop in occasionally, only expect to take, rarely give, and have a problem about how others offer their advice (that you are seeking!). To the point of one of you starting this thread itself! How much more obvious can this be? (Btw, where is the OP in all of this? Talk about tolling, flaming and baiting!)

What you don't understand is your "rookie-ness" and approach is part of the problem (see I AM giving you FREE advice!). A beginner, that thinks they are peers with 30 year veterans of any business or industry is just plain silly. It's delusional. Take any business or profession. If a new young hotshot tries barging in trying to tell the longtime veterans "how it is" and "how it should be" the exact same thing would happen that is happening here. It IS disrespectful and it IS uninviting. Why would anyone want to assist that person?

You seem to expect respect, which, like the pretty packing you expect in information provided, may be your own false expectation.

This place does welcome learners, but what is more important is how open and respectful they are approaching this learning process and those they are learning from. You seem to be focusing more on the HOW than the WHYs. Putting your effort on yourself rather than what you seem to expect form others may be a great starting point for newcomers here to start with.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Mar 8, 2016 10:07AM)
This place does not welcome newcomers who want to set rules of conduct, give opinions as if they are fact and want to tell others how to act.

I will answer any question but lets talk respect here a second. On this thread Chris you make a claim of all shows you have seen being the same and ate quote disrespectful or shows in general.


Why in the world would anyone want to help you when you do that? You want respect and toy don't give it. Then you want to demand people show you video and such. You don't see how this will bother professionals?

So look in the mirror and get your item behavior in line before complaining about others.
Message: Posted by: Tristan14 (Mar 14, 2016 06:06PM)
As far as a place to learn for a beginner I've learned this is not one, but there is some interesting content shared here from time to time so I pop in and out. I appreciate the thought that no information is better than the wrong info but the first time few times posted here it felt a bit like a kick to the nuts. When either being ignored or shot down, maybe in hindsight I was just asking the wrong sort of questions and the few regulars here although very knowledgeable are somewhat stuck in there ways and sick of the same old junk being asked.
I’ve come to my own decision to seek learning basic hypnosis knowledge elsewhere. This place has a strong feeling of "If you’re not capable of understanding it’s not worth the time explaining."
That being said I've got maybe a little kick in the right direction and have dropped thinking about mentalism gimmicks (I never wanted to be a magician but somehow wound up thinking the two where entwined). I am now set on a clearer path and concentrating on learning traditional stage hypnosis. I personally found street hypnosis training was still a good stepping stone despite its reputation here on the forum but agree it’s not a standalone genre, it needs to be built on or used by an already competent hypnotist under the right controlled situation, not a simplistic mind trick any magician can add to his/her list of tricks.

So I don't believe this is a bully club, yes its a little harsh and withholding at times but don't expect answers delivered on a silver spoon and hopefully theres something positive to take out from it.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Mar 14, 2016 06:35PM)
Sometimes the truth and reality is harsh, especially to the unskilled and uninformed beginner. I think in reality the regular advice offered is A.) understand hypnosis is not a "trick" or "effect", B.) Get he proper training at all costs (none available in my area or I cant afford proper training is really too bad, that's an excuse or shows your lack of seriousness), C.) don't attempt shortcuts or substitutes for the real thing, D.) be concerned with safety and proper knowledge (far more than with magic or mentalism or most other types of performances, E.) safeguard and protect yourself against lawsuits, and F.) understand the expectations of the audience and volunteers.

It's really quite simple. I think the problem come sin in how it's asked, that we have no idea who these guys are or their level of interest or experience and as you said you had misconceptions about it as you approached us here with your interests. This all comes into play. Plus this is not where one should come for their education. We are happy to help and offer advice based on experience, but in no way should participation here be considered education or training.

What I've never understood is is when guys get bent when they hear something they don't want to hear. Sometimes guys need a bit of tough love or assistance to create the proper reality, which few will realize or admit. Also if these guys can't handle a little heat here, how in the h**l are they going to handle hypnosis in the real world?
Message: Posted by: Gismologic (Apr 16, 2016 10:06AM)
Question to this fine group..

Would it be bold to assume that more often than not, the path to voluntarily learning a new skill(knowledge) requires the following steps :
- Curiosity ?
- Research ?
- Exposure ?
- Commitment ?
- Practice ?

Who hasn't found that our motivations (the "Why's) often change and vary in intensity as we move forward through this acquisition of knowledge ?
We may start someplace..and end up someplace else, Bob Burns comes to mind..

The subconscious is a marvelous, mysterious and ever deepening frontier that I for one, will continue to explore.
I admittedly don't dwell in these "hypno" threads .. It seems like every other paragraph here is sprinkled with Judgment.

Message: Posted by: Shrubsole (May 22, 2016 02:33PM)
So a thread about two people has been taken over by those two people and everyone else 'corrected' by them.

Irony at its very best!
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 22, 2016 02:43PM)
[quote]On May 22, 2016, Shrubsole wrote:
So a thread about two people has been taken over by those two people and everyone else 'corrected' by them.

Irony at its very best! [/quote]

Yea no agenda on your part.
Message: Posted by: Gismologic (Jun 2, 2016 05:56PM)
Hmm.. perhaps "The Eternal Order" has it's own responsibilities to "the order".. backbiting and some inscrutable score settling seems to be it's primary function at this end of the pool..
When I look at these threads it certainly doesn't smack of Brethren.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jun 2, 2016 07:43PM)
Doesn't "Brethren " imply a shared knowledge and experience?
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Jun 14, 2016 08:05AM)
ROTFLMAO :giggles: :giggles: :giggles: :giggles: :giggles: :giggles: :giggles:
I love everyone calling each other a troll just because they don't agree. Glad I'm not a hypnotist....
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jun 14, 2016 11:43AM)
So is the world in general.
Message: Posted by: writeall (Jun 14, 2016 10:21PM)
It's all fake anyhow.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jun 17, 2016 12:54PM)
Not everyone calls everyone a Troll it was just that Troll James......

So stop being a Troll Slim...

Im glad Im not a Troll
Message: Posted by: ProfessorMagicJMG (Jul 23, 2016 09:44PM)
If you feel your thread is being hijacked by trolls, just report it to the admins without comment on the thread. They are quick and responsive and will shut it down quickly.
Message: Posted by: Chris Meece (Nov 11, 2016 07:47PM)
Funny that you received responses from the two culprits within the first few responses. I quit coming to this board as well because of them. I came here when I was staring out .. got tremendous help from others on the board and learned how to do this crazy thing. I used DVDs and books to learn from but because I didn't attend a stage hypnosis seminar or multiple seminars I was simply a hack like everyone else. It grew old very fast.

When I finally invent a way to punch people through the computer screen I'll become a millionaire.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Nov 12, 2016 09:06AM)
Yea no punching. Just crying and whining crying through very clear

Come to Las Vegas and punch me.
Message: Posted by: Chris Meece (Nov 12, 2016 10:48AM)
You wouldn't like that very much.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Nov 12, 2016 11:18AM)
[quote]On Nov 11, 2016, Chris Meece wrote:
Funny that you received responses from the two culprits within the first few responses. I quit coming to this board as well because of them. I came here when I was staring out .. got tremendous help from others on the board and learned how to do this crazy thing. I used DVDs and books to learn from but because I didn't attend a stage hypnosis seminar or multiple seminars I was simply a hack like everyone else. It grew old very fast.

When I finally invent a way to punch people through the computer screen I'll become a millionaire. [/quote]

Nice of you to pop in with such a great contribution. This seems to me like trolling at its very best. Let's resurrect an old thread for no other reason than to flame? If that's your approach no wonder you find no help here. But then one must ask, why come here at all? To troll?
Message: Posted by: Chris Meece (Nov 12, 2016 12:02PM)
And look ... suspect one and two both show up immediately. Why come here? I was hoping to possibly see some interesting stuff .. maybe learn something or two. Instead I see troll number one and number two doing what they always do.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Nov 12, 2016 12:04PM)
[quote]On Nov 12, 2016, Chris Meece wrote:
You wouldn't like that very much. [/quote]

Give it a try.

Internet tough guys are hilarious.

All I did was invite you to back up your bs. And lie5 every Internet tough guy you won't.
Message: Posted by: Chris Meece (Nov 12, 2016 12:19PM)
And yet that is exactly what you are being Nancy, an internet tough guy. You took my initial joke of making millions by inventing a way of punching people through a computer screen and took it as a personal affront. I hate bullies and your type is the very reason I became a martial arts instructor.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Nov 12, 2016 01:16PM)
Ooooo scary.

Some martial arts instructor. Taking things out of context on a message board and then taking them personally and getting upset by them.

Seems silly that you would let something said by some Anonymous person on the internet bother you.

Again the biggest problem with the Internet is that the reader ads all tone. If you feel insulted or if you feel as if someone is saying something in a mean way generally speaking the problem is how you are reading it not how it's being written. But rather than thinking about that it is far easier to personify it and just get angry at someone else. It is easier to just call people a bully rather than sitting down and trying to actually talk to somebody or actually write them a message and say hey is this what you meant by this because this is how it came across.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Nov 12, 2016 02:15PM)
So since one has gone out of the way to revive an old silly thread lets at least make it positive.

How does one find training today? Well it is easier than ever. First I would be shocked if you can find a post of me ever recommending live training. If I did I revise that position.

First figure out what style of performer you want to be. Classical, modern, hip out whatever. Really nail it down for yourself.

Then find a DVD that is put out by a guy who most emulates that style. Spidey comes off as hip and fresh, Terry Stokes is Vladislav, Kevin Lepine is in your face and so on. (Not sure Kevin has a DVD, just an example.)

Then GET THAT DVD! Most, if not all are very good and aside from style the same content. There Is nothing really new to discover. So it is style you are looking for. Shop for that style!

Then one you have the basics get some books to do in the blanks. Above all get out there. Aside from someone falling you are not going to hurt anyone. If street hyp is your goal find some stuff on that.

It is not a mystery, it is nor deeply guarded secrets or anything of the sort. It is simple experienc and judgment. Anyone who says it is more is a liar oor selling something. Neither one is a bad thing.
Message: Posted by: kevinuncanny (Nov 26, 2016 09:01PM)
I wouldn't say "in your face......" but I've heard worse Danny!
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Nov 27, 2016 07:08AM)
It was in no way an insult my friend.

Only saying you have a style you developed and that is a good thing.
Message: Posted by: kevinuncanny (Nov 30, 2016 01:45AM)
None taken Danny! :)
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Nov 30, 2016 07:21AM)
All that remains is to see if someone is offended "for you".
Message: Posted by: Senor Fabuloso (May 17, 2018 06:34AM)
Just came upon this thread and wonder how and or why the bullies are allowed to stay? Seems like if you don't agree or might know something outside the realm of the agitators, their goal is squash you. The only views that seem to matter is theirs? Why? Can nobody else know anything about stage hypnosis? Are there but two experts on the subject in all the world? Statistically speaking I don't see how that's at all possible.
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (May 17, 2018 08:55AM)
We're not in the whole world, we're in this quite limited forum.

And they are allowed to stay because they don't actually break the rules. People just don't like what they say/how they say it.
Message: Posted by: Senor Fabuloso (May 17, 2018 12:42PM)
Any Board on the web is world wide. The governments that censor the web not withstanding I venture to guess that there are more than just two authorities who visit this forum? Although when one is attacked immediately upon asking a question or expressing themselves, the rules are being broken http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=4408&forum=39 You may want to pay special attention to the "Public Criticism" section. The rules seem to be for some and not for others but that up to the mods and beyond my understanding. Since I'm not a mod it's not my place to comment on their work and so this observation is just that and not meant to offend them. My point which can get lost in the explanation, how does it serve the board or forum to have but two members bully others into not posting? It's not a question what they say or even how they say it, it's the ATTACKING members with things like "you don't know what your talking about" or other such verbiage. Just as there are different performing styles in all of magic, so to are there different performing style among hypnotist. I'v seen comedic performances. More serious demonstrations. And even a more sudo show with tricks resembling hypnosis but with no actual hypnosis in it. Why not make a point WITHOUT the hostility? Can we not be civil to one another in the spirit of the Café? I just don't understand. It's my problem though and I don't really expect an answer. I just wish this forum was a more open place to exchange ideas and performing styles. But I'm done WHINING as was told to another member and will just leave the dead to decay and wither.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 17, 2018 04:52PM)
[quote]On May 17, 2018, Senor Fabuloso wrote:
Just came upon this thread and wonder how and or why the bullies are allowed to stay? Seems like if you don't agree or might know something outside the realm of the agitators, their goal is squash you. The only views that seem to matter is theirs? Why? Can nobody else know anything about stage hypnosis? Are there but two experts on the subject in all the world? Statistically speaking I don't see how that's at all possible. [/quote]

I notice how when I tried to turn this positive you choose to further the negative part. Then accuse others of bad behavior.

So again let's be positive. How would you recommend a person go about learning stage hypnosis today?
Message: Posted by: Senor Fabuloso (May 20, 2018 08:25PM)
[quote]On May 17, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
How would you recommend a person go about learning stage hypnosis today? [/quote]

What is your motivation for asking the question? Is it because you want to try dissecting every word I might say in an attempt to discredit me? Or maybe your not the all knowing ultimate authority on hypnosis you think you are and really interested in learning something? Either way I think it's a bait question for you or your cronies to jump on. So I won't be answering. However any person REALLY interested in hypnosis in ALL it's forms are free to contact me via pm anytime.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 21, 2018 01:43AM)
Oh my you do have issues.

It was a second attempt of mine to take this from a negative footing and turn it into something positive. Once again you turn it negative.

So out of curiosity do you perform stage hypnosis? Because you capitalized all and really and I'm curious as to what that means?

Just trying to discuss. That however does not seem high on your to do list. You seem more fond of bloviating without discussion.
Message: Posted by: Senor Fabuloso (May 21, 2018 10:41AM)
[quote]On May 21, 2018, Dannydoyle wrote:
You seem more fond of bloviating without discussion. [/quote]

I can thank you for one thing. I had to look up the word bloviating as I had no idea what it meant. So my vocabulary has now been enhanced. I guess even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Message: Posted by: NightSG (May 22, 2018 02:24AM)
[quote]On May 21, 2018, Senor Fabuloso wrote:
I guess even a broken clock is right twice a day. [/quote]

Not at all; it will only be right twice a day if it's actually stopped, which you seem to be incapable of.
Message: Posted by: Senor Fabuloso (May 23, 2018 02:58AM)
[quote]On May 22, 2018, NightSG wrote:
[quote]On May 21, 2018, Senor Fabuloso wrote:
I guess even a broken clock is right twice a day. [/quote]

Not at all; it will only be right twice a day if it's actually stopped, which you seem to be incapable of. [/quote]

Really? I would point you to many threads that I abandon out of futility. Another false assessment by a person with no knowledge of who I am or what I'm about.
Message: Posted by: NightSG (May 28, 2018 05:30PM)
[quote]On May 23, 2018, Senior Moment wrote:
Another false assessment by a person with no knowledge of who I am or what I'm about. [/quote]

Ok, so you summed up your power of self assessment in an incomplete sentence with no real meaning. Were you going somewhere with that?
Message: Posted by: 252life (Nov 8, 2018 12:39PM)
Granted, some of the Café hypno crowd can be "direct" in their opinions.
I had some nasty little exchanges early on.
(Sheesh, really nasty in retrospect.)
But, these same people, also have experience and knowledge in the field.
Lots and lots of real life experience on a large scale.
Different approaches/rationales at times, sure.
I'd be dishonest though, if I said I never found anything useful from the postings.
I just try and remind myself that this is a unique medium to communicate through.
It's almost expected to come on public forums, in a defensive, war like posture.
I wouldn't expect (or tolerate) anyone speaking to me in person, in the ways we take as acceptable here.
Having said all that, these folks will share their opinions and thoughts, good and bad, fairly unfiltered.
I see value in that.
I just try and laugh off the occasional grumpy biting comments..unless I'm also in a cr@p mood. Then I become part of the problem lol.
Overall, I'll deal with the trade off. But, it would be nice if we tried giving each other the benefit of the doubt occasionally.
Less attacking, more questioning.

But, as stated, I'm half a hypocrite trying to evolve a tad :)



Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Nov 8, 2018 01:25PM)
Some great observation 252life. The thing one must remember and understand, which is also not understood by many on the Café, is that this type of difference and dissension occurs anytime where you are combining experienced, serious professionals, with amateurs, hobbyists and newbies. Like most professionals, this can be a formula for difference and misunderstanding. It is impossible for amateurs, hobbyists, and newbies to even come close to thinking, operating, and comprehending to the levels to which industry professional that have been doing something for their living for decades think, operate and offer/discuss insight and experience.

Once this realization can be accommodated, they can learn so much with the right attitude and perspective. Again, this is the same in any profession.

Then, of course, there is also a third category on online communities which are guys that aren't anything yet bloviate as if they are and pretend to be experienced or professionals when not at all. They disrespect the community, the members, and the experienced professionals. These are worse than the newbies and beginners because they are not here to learn and only pop in to flame and stir the pot for their own personal satisfaction and ego, and does absolutely nothing to further the discussion or contribute to the forum and community itself (as we've seen in this exact thread and many others). The actual pros can see this a mile away, yet the amateurs, hobbyists, and newbies are the ones that become confused and misinformed and may accept this bloviating as some kind of actual information when in reality it is rarely anything more than a personal opinion often with an accompanying agenda (I'm sure one or two will be along soon, shortly after I make this post).

I think it great that you shared your realization and your progress into your own learning process.