(Close Window)
Topic: A real magic "school?"
Message: Posted by: danaruns (Jul 12, 2016 03:41PM)
Just curious, does anyone know of an actual, real "school" for magic, with an actual curriculum? A kind of real world Hogwarts that gets people ready for a career (such as it is) in magic?

I've taken classes at the Magic Castle's "Magic University." It is not a real school. I've taken classes at Jeff McBride's Magic & Mystery School (both online and in person). It's not a real school either, though Jeff's master class is a transformative experience that I highly recommend even (or especially) for working magicians. But wouldn't it be cool if there was a school where you could get a complete and thorough education in magic, where you learn all the secrets and techniques [i]the right way[/i], and are graduated as a skilled magician with an understanding of history, techniques, theory and business, ready for a career?

Is such a thing economically possible? Surely there is enough interest. There are such schools for music and acting. Why, then, does it not exist for magic?
Message: Posted by: funsway (Jul 12, 2016 08:03PM)
Some years ago I attempted to set up an Associate Degree in Performance Arts from the Del Rio Community College system (Sacramento, CA)

They have this for other arts and I suggested one in magic. The curriculum was approved but no one could teach it.

There rules require a professor with a Masters Degree in the field -- and there is no such person. Catch 22.
Message: Posted by: davidpaul$ (Jul 12, 2016 10:45PM)
Check out the Chavez Studio of Magic / College of manual dexterity and prestidigitation.
Message: Posted by: MKoeppel (Jul 14, 2016 05:46AM)
Not a school, but a university course:
Three weeks fulltime.

Johan Ståhl and Tom Stone are the main facilitators. The main topics are misdirection and dramatic structures. It will draw heavily on the participants' own experiences. The study model is very hands-on with focus on research and practical experiments. The course is given in English.

You'll get 4.5 university credits and an university diploma from the Stockholm University of the Arts - something that might open doors that previously have been closed to you.

More details here:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=581954&forum=218

HTH, markus
Message: Posted by: donny (Jul 14, 2016 09:44AM)
Not to answer OP per say, but I'd like to see a week-long workshop for Street Magicians. Not hustling, busking or whatever, whatnot, but actual instruction of tricks, filming, coordinating with magic product companies and costumes. Sure, several here will scream "abomination", but what I'm suggesting is already out there and "productive" already. The product review "blogs" from Alakazam and Worldmagic, Murphy's and other companies. The perspective (here though) is "create the spectacle" and the people will come. "Ghost Busters" bringing magic to the people. a mobile "Now you See me" encounter. Black vans, film crews, lights and SPECTACLE! All effected, out with their cell phones RECORDING and posting. A few shills adding to the mania. Who will see the miracle and WHERE CAN I BUY IT NOW? Style, finesse, teamwork, planning. Which companies will get to associate with such promotion?

Just roaming here and maybe I have my answer. I'm thinking the "Mindfreak" thing and wondering why others haven't tried it. Criss Angel did make it to the top of the pyramid, but others don't seem so big on it. I'm wondering why.

Anyhow, a "sleight of hand" project would be great. It beats a DVD on many levels.
Message: Posted by: Zipposrsa (Jul 20, 2016 12:18PM)
There is of course The College of Magic - going for 36 years. Great story behind this wonderful place - www.collegeofmagic.com
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Jul 20, 2016 07:01PM)
What a wonderful place Zipposrsa. I had no idea it existed.
Message: Posted by: friend2cptsolo (Jul 21, 2016 08:18AM)
Just weighing in with these thoughts:

Accreditation is a process of validation in which colleges, universities and other institutions of higher learning are evaluated. The standards for accreditation are set by a peer review board whose members include faculty from various accredited colleges and universities.

I think about why would you need nationally accredited magicians? A REAL College or School that carries with it these standards would not be cost effective for students and then why would you then need a governing body on interpretive performance.

I do see where certain aspects of magic can be woven into a fabric of a course that one may need in a wide variety of fields.

I have also heard many GREAT thing about the Chevez school and The McBride Classes and I think many in the magic community know these things carry a great deal of weight with in, so that speaks highly of those "courses".
Message: Posted by: Ado (Jul 21, 2016 08:12PM)
The university of Dong A, in Korea, has a magic curriculum: http://magic.dongac.ac.kr/
I'm pretty sure that all the Koreans you see dominating the magic competitions in the manipulation field come from there. You can see (in Korean), how students ranked at competitions if you click on the hat and scroll down.

P!
Message: Posted by: danaruns (Jul 22, 2016 02:54PM)
[quote]On Jul 21, 2016, friend2cptsolo wrote:
Just weighing in with these thoughts:

Accreditation is a process of validation in which colleges, universities and other institutions of higher learning are evaluated. The standards for accreditation are set by a peer review board whose members include faculty from various accredited colleges and universities.

I think about why would you need nationally accredited magicians? A REAL College or School that carries with it these standards would not be cost effective for students and then why would you then need a governing body on interpretive performance.

I do see where certain aspects of magic can be woven into a fabric of a course that one may need in a wide variety of fields.

I have also heard many GREAT thing about the Chevez school and The McBride Classes and I think many in the magic community know these things carry a great deal of weight with in, so that speaks highly of those "courses". [/quote]

Yeah, I wasn't necessarily thinking of accreditation, just a place where aspiring magicians can learn the fundamentals in the right way, get excellent instruction in all aspects of magic, and come out of it with the knowledge and skills necessary for a successful career. There are schools for music, acting, etc.

I'm not real familiar with the Chavez school, but I have gone to the McBride Magic & Mystery School and found it life-changing. But Jeff only has short duration classes, and no particular curriculum for development. Because Jeff is so great at marketing his school and brand, I assume the reason he doesn't have a more traditional system is because it's not viable. I think if it were, Jeff probably would have done it.

I guess I was just fantasizing about it because I've seen so many working magicians who don't know their fundamentals, and so many amateurs who learned poorly from YouTube tutorials and stuff, and I am incredibly grateful to have been lucky enough to study from some truly great magicians. So I wished there was a place to raise and harvest excellent young magicians. And then eat them. They'll be tender from being indoors all the time, practicing. ;)
Message: Posted by: donny (Jul 22, 2016 03:15PM)
[quote]On Jul 22, 2016, danaruns wrote:
And then eat them. They'll be tender from being indoors all the time, practicing. ;) [/quote]
You seem to have a refined palette Danaruns. I can only hope you get your "fill".
:baby:
Message: Posted by: friend2cptsolo (Jul 26, 2016 10:43AM)
I figured you really were not speaking about accreditation but I think that is the main reason why you would not see a class in magic at a REAL school.


[quote]On Jul 22, 2016, danaruns wrote:


I guess I was just fantasizing about it because I've seen so many working magicians who don't know their fundamentals, and so many amateurs who learned poorly from YouTube tutorials and stuff,) [/quote]

I got a few thoughts. I think there is a barrier to learning how to perform magic.... The Human Ego.... example...When someone sees a juggling performance( or any good performer) they might get jazzed up and want to try that..... Well with skills like juggling you can go right home and pick up a few objects and try it....within seconds you realize hey this is harder than what it looks like when that person was doing it on stage....same with a lot of types of entertainment.... but with magic I think people walk away sometimes with the sense If I only knew the "secret" or the way the apparatus works or "the Move" that THEY can now be a magician just by that little bit of secret knowledge. SO THEY JUMP into magic and now we live in the age of instant INFO and it is so easy to get "the secret" and then your an INSTANT MAGICIAN.

But that is not what make magic fun to watch.... nor entertaining and it takes away from the mystery of magic.

Think about a video called the "Fundamentals of card magic" and you get the video and all of the learning is focused around CARD MOVES AND SLEIGHTS..... when really the fundamentals of card magic... or any magic is HOW to present it.
That juggler is not just fun to watch because he/she juggles..... but they took time to script an act together....work out timing and pacing.... Know the exact moment to deliver the punch line all those things come together into a show.

The whole structure of learning magic is kinda backwards..... magic as an money making industry needs to sell secrets, and props and new moves .... the aim unfortunately is not sell people the fundamentals.
Magic is sooooo focused on "SECRETS" it gives a false sense to the importance of that secret.

[quote]On Jul 22, 2016, danaruns wrote: and I am incredibly grateful to have been lucky enough to study from some truly great magicians. ;) [/quote]

most people do not have this around them or even aware of magic groups and not all magic groups are really helpful in this sense. And the Magic Café is definitely a great resource to a lot of awesome magicians and range of topics but you have to be ready to want the input or advice.

Bob Cassidy once wrote on the Café He was amazed that when a person will pay him GOOD money for 1 on 1 instruction and the student will hang on every word....but he gives advice on the Café' for free and people want to argue with him about it...... funny but kinda disturbing

I am definitely no expert on this subject I just writing from my soap box here.....Any thoughts??
Message: Posted by: Father Photius (Jul 31, 2016 10:25AM)
Magic has always been a field that was based more on mentoring than schooling. You find a more senior magician who had experience in the area of magic you were interested in and worked out a mentoring arrangement with them.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Jul 31, 2016 12:33PM)
Father Photius AND, friend 2......

Yes! I concur with both of you!

I learned from mentors, (who were successful performers)YEARS AGO, and, I also STUDIED, the basic books (Tarbell, Maskelynne & Devant, Fitzkee et al.)

Then, I listened to Mr. SOPHOCLES, who several thousand years ago, said, "One learns by DOING the thing!" I also listened to that agent back in the early '50s, who said, "Make 'em laugh, and, I'll get you work!" I got work! --And, once I was established, I was NEVER OUT OF WORK!

AS friend2 noted above, magic is quite different from the other performing arts! (S E C R E T S !!!). The non magicians think that, "If I know the SECRET, and/or have the PROP, I can print 'PROFESSIONAL MAGICIAN (OR ILLUSIONIST' ON A BUSINESS CARD, AND, I'll BE ON TELEVISION!" (ETC. ETC ETC.)

I "usta" tell those young folks: "Take a show out for a season on the road, do 400 or more shows, that ENTERTAIN almost anyone, almost anywhere, come home with money in your pocket, and, a contract for next year,in your pocket, and your health and sanity, and, THEN, you can consider yourself a PROFESSIONAL.

I've read thousands of posts since I "came on" this Café. It's very obvious that the VAST MAJORITY, have a wife, kids, a car payment, and, a mortgage! They "dream" of being a "pro.", but, it ain't gonna happen!!! Many, if not most, don't have the "drive", and/or the talent. They don't understand those words of R.L. Sharpe ("Those who think that magic consists of doing tricks, are strangers to magic. Tricks are only the crude residue from which the lifeblood of magic has been drained.")

I always have advised young folks whom I have mentored, in the past 50 years, to become educated! --and, I don't mean just magic "schools"!

I consider magic to be an art form. Not everyone who owns a palette and a few brushes will paint the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel! Not everyone who owns a "black stick with white tips, and a "red velvet bag on a stick" will win FISM!

I don't look down" on hobbyists and/or amateurs or part time pro's.! I have many fine friends, who enjoy performing for friends, and family. They have no desire to be (although many of them could, if they wished) be successful professionals. I also have many friends who are part time pro's (I was one, myself, for the first twenty years.) Gene Anderson, for example, could have been a full timer, had he wanted to. (OOPS! There goes another "Charlie Miller"!

So. Danaruns! Professional magicians are in $HOW BU$INE$$. WE DON'T "FANTASIZE". As Frances Marshall "usta" say: "WE EAT OFF IT"!

That's enough ranting, I gotta go re-wind the hat coils.
Message: Posted by: SevenSigma (Aug 1, 2016 03:55AM)
Check this, it is in Germany and the page is originally in German: https://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fzauberzentrale.de%2Fzad%2Fdie-ausbildung%2F

At least it gives you an idea what is definitely possible. Four semesters, weekly courses, and a final exam.
Message: Posted by: Doug Trouten (Aug 1, 2016 10:42PM)
[quote]On Jul 12, 2016, funsway wrote:
The curriculum was approved but no one could teach it. Their rules require a professor with a Masters Degree in the field -- and there is no such person. Catch 22. [/quote]

Colleges and universities are generally able to hire instructors who lack graduate degrees if they have extensive professional experience in their field. Such teachers usually just handle hands-on skill-based classes, rather than classes emphasizing history or theory, which are seen as more academic subjects. There is no master's degree in magic, but an M.A. in theatre arts would probably do the trick. But having said that, I can't imagine the world is full of skilled magicians who have graduate degrees in theatre. (At one point my job included hiring for a college theatre program, so I know first-hand that finding the combination of solid professional experience and a graduate degree can be a real challenge.)
Message: Posted by: FrankHorng (Aug 2, 2016 12:52AM)
I know a kind of magic school is an art performance for very young kids.
Mainly in China.
Parents send their young kids to the school.
Message: Posted by: alan1954 (Apr 24, 2018 06:28AM)
For myself, Jeff McBride's Magic & Mystery School was a life-changing experience and I can't recommend it too highly! For kids and adults, the FAB Magic Camp each summer in Michigan appears to be doing some very fine work plus it's in the Magic Capital of the World! How cool is that?
Message: Posted by: John Oaks (Apr 25, 2018 03:16PM)
Should be more such places.
Message: Posted by: jimgerrish (Apr 25, 2018 09:10PM)
The myth surrounding the idea of a "school" as the only place where learning takes place does not belong in magic. Since the beginning of human history, magic "education" has been going on between a teacher and apprentice, with no need or reason for the mass groupings of administrators, specialized teachers, and rows of students learning by rote and repetition in order to earn a piece of paper that announces that their education has ended and they are now prepared to go on with their life's chosen work. The way it actually works in magic is that a person who is serious about becoming a magician learns all he can on his own FIRST, and then finds someone more experienced or advanced who can teach him that which he can't learn from books and videos. He is tested each time he performs for non-magicians, and he grades or evaluates himself by the reaction his performance of magic gets from those critics.
Message: Posted by: kohuho (Jan 25, 2019 05:13AM)
[quote]On Jul 12, 2016, danaruns wrote:
Just curious, does anyone know of an actual, real "school" for magic, with an actual curriculum? A kind of real world Hogwarts that gets people ready for a career (such as it is) in magic?

I've taken classes at the Magic Castle's "Magic University." It is not a real school. I've taken classes at Jeff McBride's Magic & Mystery School (both online and in person). It's not a real school either, though Jeff's master class is a transformative experience that I highly recommend even (or especially) for working magicians. But wouldn't it be cool if there was a school where you could get a complete and thorough education in magic, where you learn all the secrets and techniques [i]the right way[/i], and are graduated as a skilled magician with an understanding of history, techniques, theory and business, ready for a career?

Is such a thing economically possible? Surely there is enough interest. There are such schools for music and acting. Why, then, does it not exist for magic? [/quote]


I do not know about the existence of the school of magic! I think that such schools exist, but these schools are not in all cities. However, the writing lesson is obligatory in every school, and the writing lesson is obligatory in the school of magic too. The writing lesson is a lesson that many schoolchildren do not like, because writing is easy only with the help of the service [url=https://papersowl.com/write-my-personal-statement]papersowl.com[/url] (which writes my personal statements), but studying how to write correctly is a complicated process without help from this service and without using services that are service. If you find a school of magic, then my recommendation will be useful for you, because you will use this service to get good grades in your school.
Message: Posted by: HeronsHorse (Jan 26, 2019 03:44AM)
These schools DO in fact exist, but we do not get to learn of their existence, which is highly shrouded in secrecy. Even at the level of expertise and skill as Danaruns, we must spend our days working and practicing and performing in the meagre hope that one day, when we least expect it, there will be that knock at the door requesting our appointment at the School of Magic admissions Council. That hallowed place where only the very select few have ever been graced with seeing the walls from the inside. Or outside, come to mention it. The place where dreams are reality and Magic is more than mere sleight of hand and showmanship, or a trick hawked at the local shop for profit over substance! Where students become Masters of an ageing artform with a rich history and even richer future. Where the real Magic is practiced and honed into excellence far beyond a youtube dreamer's comprehension.
They say only 1 in every 10,000 will ever become one of those Masters. They say the school does not exist.
I prefer that it does and you should, too.
Who knows. You might get that knock one day.
Only if you work hard enough. . .

:D
Message: Posted by: Melephin (Jul 5, 2019 07:01AM)
Shouldn't that be your magic club? Every new member should have an experienced "god father" or "god mother" who is responsable for your magic education and is working with you. You can't have better feedback than performing in front of fellow magicians and from time to time, when the club is organizing a show for laymen audiences, where you have to proof yourself or at least to check out, what reaction you get.

Reality is unfortunately quite different. At least in Switzerland the philosophy in the clubs is, that nobody is showing or teaching anything (although they demand for you to improve). Why is it not the clubs interesst, that their members improve and get better and learn the good stuff "from the ground"?
Message: Posted by: funsway (Jul 6, 2019 07:26AM)
For years I have been willing to mentor younger magicians - different than teaching tricks. (no age limit - just that I am an old fart)
But this requires that they come and meet at my physical location some of the time. They are unwilling to commit to a time, show up at that planned time;
and be prepared for a couple of hours of isolated work on moves, sleights, mannerisms and psychological stratagems.

Of course, some activities can be accomplished by email or Skype. I can guide the learning of sleights/moves from a distance.
But, mentoring is about mastery of self as well as props and sleights.

Plus, a given, agreed "effect" must be mastered before moving on to another (or completely rejected for cause).

So, yes, I can provide a real school at no monetary charge to a person interested in learning magic beyond tricks.

I six years of offering, no one has been willing to pay the price called "commitment" and "diligence."

I quit going to the local Magic Circle because of disability and care=provider issues. But, I have not been motivated to return
because the attitude is "let me show you something I am working on that I bought yesterday, but, no, I don't want to discuss magic."

Back at my first Magic Circle EVERY member had to perform at every meeting. No necessarily a magic effect - could be a story or demonstration of a prop.
Often a Theme was scheduled with several members performing within that venue - and then scheduling a teach-in for members interested.
There was always a contest on a theme for younger members - with prizes donated by the older members.

Thus, general support of "learning magic" was always there - with more focused training and mentoring available for those "ready."

The key is that any "student" should first demonstrate that it is worth the time of the mentor to be involved.

Scotland is far away, Heron, me lad - but I would be happy to communicate with you at some level. ken@eversway.com
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Jul 6, 2019 09:28AM)
Hi Ken...

As a teenager, I lived in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, 500 MILES from Detroit, and, almost that far from Chicago! My only contact with other teens was Darrell Hammer (Marinette WI 60 miles away) Howard Kahn, (Milwaukee, WI 5 hours by train) Bob Blue, (Iron Mountain, MI another 60 miles away). We corresponded via "3 cent stamps"! and once or twice, we got to meet personally. Darrell, and Howard are now deceased. I lost contact with Bob during the Korean War.

I was able to meet C. Thomas Magrum. Stuart Ross. Roy Mayer, Roy Shrimplin, and Loring Campbell, all school assembly magicians, plus various carnival and circus sideshow magicians, like Herman Suss. Buzz Worth, Red Friend, plus several whose names, I've forgotten.

Roy Mayer, Clem Magrum, and Stuart Ross and I would correspond by mail.

Except for library books, the above were either my fellow learners, or mentors, until I joined the Navy at 19, and was sent to Norfolk, VA.

There, I met the owner of EdMar Magic Shop, and "got" an agent who booked me club dates. (As Sophocles had said,a few thousand years before, I was learning by "doing the thing"! Of course, studying TARBELL, had helped!

That agent booked club dates which provided an opportunity to gain experience. --and, the club date fees allowed me to send my Navy pay checks home to the bank for 3 1/2 years. I lived on the show money!

In later years. I have been a mentor to about a dozen young men who are now full time professionals! I also mentored Doug Hennning, Bob McAllister, and Chuck Windley. They all did well as full timers, although now deceased.

Maybe if there had been a "school", I might have done better! (hee hee)
Message: Posted by: TomB (Jul 17, 2019 05:02PM)
Not sure if it's any good but Penn and teller have some online classes
Message: Posted by: HeronsHorse (Jul 19, 2019 01:36PM)
Hehe. Dick!That's quite a list. I'm bookmarking this page for future reference of those others you mentioned...