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Topic: No More Business Cards
Message: Posted by: ibm_usa (Oct 7, 2016 09:09AM)
I just got done reading "The Sell" by Fredrik Eklund and in it he proposes something a bit unorthodox in business - not using business cards. Instead he either ass for theirs or he asks for their email in which he sends out an email immediately.

I have stopped and thought about this after reading... Most people you run into are not professionals and don't understand or appreciate the value of business cards. Giving out business cards is costly if you come to think about it. There is no guarantee that they will last or that you will be called.
I'm not saying don't ever have business cards but instead - don't hand out the card until after your performance and they have become a paying client.

Has anyone out there been doing this? Ever since I've read the book - I've been taking peoples emails more than I have been handing out cards when I at festivals/events with my booth.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Oct 7, 2016 09:26AM)
I haven't used business cards in years. While I do have them for some of my businesses, I prefer to do just what you suggested. If "performed" properly NOT having business cards can be the premise for more effective and direct connection than when actually using them.

I know many top pros that do not have a business card or a website and have ways to make it work to their distinct advantage.

One of the keys to what you have introduced here though, and it is often the part left out of the topic, is you must have and know how to create effective emails for your contact/follow-up with the cards you receive. I've seen many drop the ball terribly on this area as their e-mails do not make it through the noise, get read or even received.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 7, 2016 12:43PM)
Maybe Donald can find where I have been saying this for a decade here.
Message: Posted by: thomasR (Oct 7, 2016 04:04PM)
I think it's a good idea to have something to give people if they ask. It doesn't have to be a business card. Could be a postcard, could even be a playing card with yohr info on it in Sharpy (I've seen it done... And it worked for him and his style). If someone asks you for a card, they are wanting to know how to get ahold of you in the future. That's a good thing in my opinion.
Message: Posted by: ibm_usa (Oct 8, 2016 09:27AM)
Because many people don't have business cards- ive found myself giving cards away with no return. I think cards are good for those new clients who have already paid. Cards not good for prospects necessarily
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 8, 2016 10:37AM)
I think it depends on the market.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Oct 8, 2016 11:08AM)
I agree. This is where consumer markets vs. professional markets again really can come into play.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Oct 8, 2016 11:11AM)
[quote]On Oct 7, 2016, thomasR wrote:
I think it's a good idea to have something to give people if they ask. If someone asks you for a card, they are wanting to know how to get ahold of you in the future. That's a good thing in my opinion. [/quote]

I agree. I would never advise anyone not to have such, but was just saying I know many that don't. Especially those that have a selective market or don't want general tirekicker inquiries. If I was unestablished or in a new area, I would probably still suggest them. Then at that point the real issue is what you do with them. I see many performers that have cards and have no useful plan for them or just have then in case they are asked.
Message: Posted by: ibm_usa (Oct 8, 2016 04:38PM)
I'm not saying don't ever have business cards, what I'm starting to do is only hand them out when I know for a fact that business is certain in which case I hand out two cards (two because there is a high probability that they know someone and or the card gets lost because sh** happens). When a business card may not be needed is when you're doing a booth to showcase. What I do instead is have a contact list that they sign with their desired means of communication. They will get my information that way.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 8, 2016 04:54PM)
Business cards are almost useless to me and always have been. I don't like to wait or let them follow up. I prefer to do that myself. It puts me in charge of doing it and I won't forget.

As I said I have always done this and in reality it is sort of sales 101.
Message: Posted by: Sealegs (Oct 9, 2016 06:50AM)
Giving out a business card and then waiting for that person to contact you is not exactly taking a proactive business stance. For sure it's better to be ensuring that their interest gets followed up by you contacting them.

So rather than simply giving out your business card exchanging business cards has always seemed to me to be a better idea than simply handing yours out. This gives you the information you need to appropriately and proactively follow up.

But here we are in the 21st century and choosing not to use business cards seems is a reasonable choice given the alternatives now available. Even so, saying you don't have any business cards on you when asked for one can make you look unprepared... and unprepared can sometimes be equated with unbusinesslike. It can also create a moment of disappointment...they are looking to keep a connection to you and apparently there's immediately a possible obstacle to that. So, if you choose not to use business cards, or you do use them but don't have any on you, rather than saying you don't have one on you I would suggest let eh prospect know that you don't actually use business cards. This ensures your interested prospective client understands that your not having a business card is a choice, not an oversight and it leads you neatly into providing a better means of exchanging details without that moment of disappointment being allowed to develop.

So having chosen not to have business cards you still need some way to exchange information with the interested client. Much better than a card is immediate access to everything about you that they might be interested in. And fortunately in the era of the ubiquitous all singing and all dancing phone one is able to collect a prospect's pertinent details without needing to scramble for a bit of paper and a pen. So simply ask for their phone number so you can instantly give them more than any business card possible can. If they are happy to give it to you their number enter it directly into your phone and then immediately send them a text or/and email containing a link to your website thereby automatically giving them all the information a business card would have while at the same time putting all your promotion materials right in front of them.

And as you now have their details too you can follow up as appropriate.

Just some ideas.
Message: Posted by: ibm_usa (Oct 9, 2016 08:37AM)
[quote]On Oct 9, 2016, Sealegs wrote:
Giving out a business card and then waiting for that person to contact you is not exactly taking a proactive business stance. For sure it's better to be ensuring that their interest gets followed up by you contacting them.

So rather than simply giving out your business card exchanging business cards has always seemed to me to be a better idea than simply handing yours out. This gives you the information you need to appropriately and proactively follow up.

But here we are in the 21st century and choosing not to use business cards seems is a reasonable choice given the alternatives now available. Even so, saying you don't have any business cards on you when asked for one can make you look unprepared... and unprepared can sometimes be equated with unbusinesslike. It can also create a moment of disappointment...they are looking to keep a connection to you and apparently there's immediately a possible obstacle to that. So, if you choose not to use business cards, or you do use them but don't have any on you, rather than saying you don't have one on you I would suggest let eh prospect know that you don't actually use business cards. This ensures your interested prospective client understands that your not having a business card is a choice, not an oversight and it leads you neatly into providing a better means of exchanging details without that moment of disappointment being allowed to develop.

So having chosen not to have business cards you still need some way to exchange information with the interested client. Much better than a card is immediate access to everything about you that they might be interested in. And fortunately in the era of the ubiquitous all singing and all dancing phone one is able to collect a prospect's pertinent details without needing to scramble for a bit of paper and a pen. So simply ask for their phone number so you can instantly give them more than any business card possible can. If they are happy to give it to you their number enter it directly into your phone and then immediately send them a text or/and email containing a link to your website thereby automatically giving them all the information a business card would have while at the same time putting all your promotion materials right in front of them.

And as you now have their details too you can follow up as appropriate.

Just some ideas. [/quote]
I agree with you but carrying cards around isn't something people Do here in the states- at least not in my midwest region
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 9, 2016 10:08AM)
Actually business people still do it.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Oct 9, 2016 10:15AM)
Again, consumer markets vs. professional markets. It makes a difference.
Message: Posted by: TomBoleware (Oct 9, 2016 11:37AM)
The card is your business sign. Just like a store would never try and do business without a sign on the building,
the service person, the entertainer or whoever needs a sign too.

The idea is to make it easy for customers/clients to remember who you are. While they may remember every trick
you did, they most likely will not remember your name and will have no idea how to get in touch with you.


Do you remember the name of the last plumber or repairman you used? Of course you donít, just like magicians they all look alike. :)

Tom
Message: Posted by: cafecheckers (Oct 9, 2016 01:04PM)
[quote]On Oct 9, 2016, TomBoleware wrote:
The idea is to make it easy for customers/clients to remember who you are. While they may remember every trick
you did, they most likely will not remember your name and will have no idea how to get in touch with you. [/quote]

I agree, that the idea is to make it easy to remember who you are (if your audience members are critical for future booking opportunities). I disagree that one should be using a business card as a "sign" in this regard though. That would be way down on my list of ways to differentiate ones show offering and name retention. If they remember all of your "tricks" and not your name, you have likely already failed to achieve what should have been a priority. Handing out a card in hopes that it overcomes this shortcoming is a loosing proposition and missing the point.


[quote]Do you remember the name of the last plumber or repairman you used? Of course you donít, just like magicians they all look alike. :)

Tom [/quote]

This is a perspective we should all be very aware of. Again, trying to address this concern by handing out business cards is fool hearty.
Message: Posted by: TomBoleware (Oct 9, 2016 01:39PM)
Iím certainly not saying the business card is the only sign you need. That wasn't my point.
But if you think people will remember your name by the tricks you do, or how great you think
you are, youíre thinking is wrong. You better have a sign of some kind; well no, you better
have several signs.

Not nearly as hard to brand a company name but trying to get people to remember John Doe is a different game.

Tom
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Oct 9, 2016 02:16PM)
[quote]On Oct 9, 2016, TomBoleware wrote:
if you think people will remember your name by the tricks you do, or how great you think
you are, youíre thinking is wrong. [/quote]

This is where the elements of branding and positioning come into play.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 9, 2016 02:20PM)
[quote]On Oct 9, 2016, TomBoleware wrote:

Do you remember the name of the last plumber or repairman you used? Of course you donít, just like magicians they all look alike. :)

Tom [/quote]

This is absolutely meaningless. But yes I DO remember. Because he left a satisfied client.

So little of magic and performance branding is about signs of any sort.

It is all about the experience you provide. It is a different perspective from non performance oriented branding.
Message: Posted by: Investigative Mentalist (Oct 9, 2016 02:44PM)
It depends on your target market. My target market is business parties and events so business cards are natural and expected.

For example, I just booked a gig this week for a christmas party in Deceember for T-Mobile.

The woman who booked me got my business card at an event I did for a Hilton Hotel last April, the booker allowed me to pass out my cards at that event because the purpose of the event was to attract event business to their venue.

So I got paid to perform at a "grand opening" party for the hotel to show off their new event venue and because I gave my card to someone at that event who liked my "strolling mentalism" routine she contacted me 6 months later to book me for an office party.

Now if I were a kids party magician or something like that, I can see where business cards would be totally worthless.

Again, it depends on your target market.
Message: Posted by: TomBoleware (Oct 9, 2016 04:26PM)
I say,

Talent is worthless when it comes to remembering peopleís name.
Talent is cheap, everybody has talent, especially someone that can do magic.

Much like Stephen King once said, ĎTalent is cheaper than table salt.í You can
find talent everywhere, but to be remembered you must separate yourself from
the talent enough that people will remember YOU.

To think that Ďoh I am so good people will just remember meí is a bad mistake.
And for the record when I say have plenty of signs; Iím not talking about just
printed paper. (Sorry I wasn't clear on that) There are many ways to tell people
where and how to find you. The card is just one. Truth is, that requires the most talent.

Tom
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 9, 2016 05:09PM)
Spoken like a non performer.
Message: Posted by: TomBoleware (Oct 9, 2016 05:13PM)
Danny,

I knew you had a big ego, but if you really think people will remember YOU for any length of time on your talent alone,
the ego is even larger than I thought.

All I am saying is they won't.

Tom
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 9, 2016 06:59PM)
Tom you are just clueless as to what I am saying. I have run into people 10 years later who remember the end of my show. Yes that is the norm. It had nothing to do with ego but rather a well constructed show and a REASON they will remember.

Not being a performer, much less a good one you can't imagine it. But it IS possible Tom. Close your mouth and open your mind. Admit you might not know everything and it is possible to learn.

So stop name calling and pay attention when the adults are talking and you might learn something.

You are not a performer and have never been. You have a limited perspective and you should not force that on others. If you can not manage to get people to remember you then it is not shocking that you never performed professionally. I would stop too if I had that issue. But you shouldn't universalize your experience. Not all of us have that problem Tom. I am sorry you do.

Peole book me because they want me. Not just a hypnotiist or a magician bit me specifically. You never had this experience. OK that is fine but many DO have that experience.

You think it is like a plumber. If that is how one sllks themselves them yes that becomes an issue. But that is not how everyone does it. Good sales people know that you are not selling a product but rather you are seeking yourself. If this is not how you sell that is your issue. But the fact is it is the SMART way to sell.

Selling as a commodity as opposed to a specialty item is a BIG mistake.

Again your limited non performing perspective is very limiting.
Message: Posted by: TomBoleware (Oct 9, 2016 07:20PM)
Danny, Why do you keep saying I was never a performer?

You really get a kick out of being a jerk huh?

Bye

Tom
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 9, 2016 07:27PM)
YOU are the one calling names and saying I have a big ego just because you can't comprehend what I am saying and I am the one being a jerk? Try to keep up. If you have any questions just ask.

Sorry the truth hurts you so much. But if you just pay attention and listen you can learn something here. I know you don't think you have anything to learn but you do.
Message: Posted by: cafecheckers (Oct 10, 2016 10:26AM)
[quote]On Oct 9, 2016, TomBoleware wrote:
Do you remember the name of the last plumber or repairman you used? Of course you donít, just like magicians they all look alike. :)
Tom [/quote]

There is a lot to consider when internalizing the above statement. While plumbers and repair individuals may approach how they separate and brand themselves differently than entertainers, a critical decision remains the same. That is - "How will I separate from my competition". If one chooses to do this via signs, business cards, Google search, etc, they better be the best (or very near he best) at it in their area and be prepared to entertain many calls from tire kickers and uninformed buyers. They better be prepared to have clients treat them as a commodity and very replaceable. It sounds like this is the way Tom chooses to buy and regard such services. There is nothing necessarily wrong with that, but I would not choose to operate my business in ways that attract and invite such buyers.

The point about "Talent" is only true if you are defining it very narrowly. One should consider all aspects of their performance and business they preside over to access their level of "talent". Those who do not view it that way, get frustrated because what they believe to be important does not translate to financial success. If you believe your performance and customer interaction is not memorable, do something about it. I know I have a great deal to improve with regard to this, but my focus on this vs believing "we all look the same" will take me a lot further.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Oct 10, 2016 10:45AM)
[quote]On Oct 10, 2016, Cafťcheckers wrote:
It sounds like this is the way Tom chooses to buy and regard such services. There is nothing necessarily wrong with that, but I would not choose to operate my business in ways that attract and invite such buyers. [/quote]


I think young Mr. Checkers just hit upon something here that is responsible for many posts on many topics here by Tom. It explains a lot.

Again, as said, there is nothing wrong with this but it is often much different than the way many people today approach business (especially entertainment and entertainers). This of course then further affects how they approach operations, marking, branding, positioning and sales.

(Spoken as Confucius) "Ah, young Joey speaks wisely beyond his years!"
Message: Posted by: ibm_usa (Oct 10, 2016 10:56AM)
Im going to sprinkle some oil on this flame by saying- 10 years ago I wasnt even half the performer I am today & to this day I get calls from people who saw me back then
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 10, 2016 10:58AM)
I am surprised Tom doesn't want to channel a dead Houdini to see his thoughts on being memorable.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Oct 10, 2016 11:19AM)
[quote]On Oct 10, 2016, ibm_usa wrote:
Im going to sprinkle some oil on this flame by saying- 10 years ago I wasnt even half the performer I am today & to this day I get calls from people who saw me back then [/quote]

I agree. If you do it right this will occur. I still get people that come up to me or now email me and refer to something from decades ago. If you impact them, take them to a certain level in your performance they WILL remember you. Not only that, you become the bar from which all others are measured to them. No signs needed.
Message: Posted by: TomBoleware (Oct 10, 2016 12:02PM)
The problem with you people is you donít listen.:)
I have no idea what you talking about.

But let us just say you are the greatest magician in the world. You are ten times better than you know who.
BUT What has that got to do with them remembering your NAME?

HOW DO THEY GET IN TOUCH WITH THIS GREAT MAGICIAN?
Oh yea he made that girl fly around the room six times and he changed a blue rag to yellow, he was great.
So yes that right there tells me exactly how to get in touch with him.

ALL THAT GREAT TALENT IN THE WORLD IS USELESS IF THEY DONĒT KNOW YOUR $#$%^^ NAME AND CONTACT INFORMATION.
And please donít tell me you mentioned it twice during the show.

What I am saying is wouldnít it be nice if they didníty have to depend on their memory to find you and your number?
I say yes and that is all I have been saying. Why is that so hard to understand?

Tom
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 10, 2016 12:14PM)
[quote]On Oct 10, 2016, ibm_usa wrote:
Im going to sprinkle some oil on this flame by saying- 10 years ago I wasnt even half the performer I am today & to this day I get calls from people who saw me back then [/quote]

Tom read this post.

Peoplesaw him and contacted him. They REMEMBER HIS NAME. That is how they contact him 10 years later.

Maybe YOU HAVE the problem. That is not everyone.

Nobody said not to give contact information. You made that up.

IF YOU WERE A GOOD PERFORMER you might get what we are saying.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Oct 10, 2016 12:16PM)
[quote]On Oct 10, 2016, TomBoleware wrote:
I have no idea what you talking about. [/quote]

I think every gets exactly what you're saying they just prefer differently or disagree. Not hard to understand at all.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 10, 2016 12:18PM)
[quote]On Oct 10, 2016, TomBoleware wrote:

I have no idea what you talking about.

Tom [/quote]

I think we have hit the root of the problem.

What is it that confuses you so?
Message: Posted by: TomBoleware (Oct 10, 2016 12:29PM)
Danny, you have said over and over on here that all one needs is to do a good show.
Where exactly did you say anything about giving them your name? You didn't.

Danny I probably make more money in one week in sales/marketing than you make in six months
Itís a fact I do, so please donít even hint that you know more than I do about marketing.

But anyway, thatís it for me. I wonít post again here. Like so many here I have had enough of
you always twisting words into a bunch of crap. Take care.

Tom
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 10, 2016 12:40PM)
You mean in your bs mlm scams?

I would love to know what you make selling bs products to unsuspecting people. You have PROVEN you know zero about marketing and performing.

Since comprehension is so tough for you let me help. I have never said ALL you need is a good show. I Jane said that even with all the marketing in the world if you have bad one it won't help.

But you have NO SHOW so what does it matter?

I have also said the BEST marketing is a good show. I am sorry you get so confused.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 10, 2016 01:59PM)
I just wish he would stop making pointless posts about plumbers and his mlm scams and how much money he cons people out of.

The FACT is you can do very well by making people remember you. The thing Tom doesn't seem to comprehend is that if they don't remember you in the first place nobody will even bother to look for your contact information. This is not disputed by anyone but Tom.

Now today it is even easier to contact people.

I have NEVER said ALL you need is a good show. If he can find that it would be interesting. I am sure one of the usual trolls who like to quote things out of context will be along to do so any time now.

But I went through an entire diatribe talking about marketing to sell tickets in Branson or Las Vegas and how much work it really is. Certainly if I thought all you needed was a good show I would not have written that would I?

But again not actually performing he has no perspective other than opinion. That is fine but not helpful.

Business cards today are not quite what they once were. The rolodex has vanished from most desk tops and been replaced by a data base. Phones and computers have replaced it. Bookmarking on web browsers is how much of that is done.

This is not to say that they serve no function, only to mention tech is moving forward is all. If you want to be the performer who is just called like a plumber then go for it. I aim a bit higher. People hire me because of me. I don't care if I show up high on search engines for "magician". I don't want that job.

There is nothing wrong with those jobs or the guys who go for them. I just prefer people hire me, not a magician.

I have always thought you can charge more that way. If you are one of many things each individual thing is less valuable. If you are the only one of those things it is more valuable. I am surprised the self professed marketing genius doesn't seem to understand this very basic concept.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Oct 10, 2016 02:20PM)
I am always amazed at how some people have such an alternative opinion and perspective. It makes you wonder how they can truly serve their customers and industry or experience any real level of success. What also amazes me is why they tend to be so vocal. It's as if they have spent their entire life being on a hamster wheel of trying to convince others of their opinion and beliefs.

I guess this is why I always prefer to learn an industry from the inside out and work from within the industry's perspective. As long as the industry thrives, you stand an opportunity to as well.

The bottom line is the best business approach for most business models is relationship-based business. It IS their memory of you, their relationship with you and their satisfaction with you that creates the long-term, long-lasting success. Unless your business model is the "one-and-done" type of approach where you go out of you of your way with huge hot air balloons, human directional advertising (sign holders), wind-socks and inflatable gorillas, and robotic anorexic girls holding a sign, trying to get their attention (where they find you based on this noise rather than your service, product, reputation or credibility) just to get their one-shot business or booking, usually based on low pricing, you should want just the opposite - to be remembered and be the one that sets the bar.
Message: Posted by: TomBoleware (Oct 10, 2016 02:29PM)
Danny I do want to clear up one thing that you keep bringing up about my business and calling it a scam.
It is not a scam, so please donít say that. As usually you just make stuff up without any knowledge of
what you are saying. The network marketing direct selling business is a bigger market than magic,
the NFL, the Movie Business, and the Music business all COMBINED. That is a fact. The Network Marketing
and Direct Sales profession hit a new record in 2013 with $178 BILLION in global sales. You can check the fact.

But yes there are some dishonest folks in All Markets including magic. I am not one of them. So please, check
your facts before you run your mouth about me anymore.

With that said, I do apologize to ibm_usa for disturbing his topic. Sorry to everyone I allowed Danny to
drag me in the gutter again with him. It wonít happen again.

Tom
Message: Posted by: eatonmagic (Oct 16, 2016 08:14PM)
This is precisely the reason I have began creating digital business cards. These can be delivered via text, email or better yet, SMS campaign. Heres a sample one: www.eatonmagic.com/digicardtest2

it functions just like a business card but with the ability to be on you at all times and NOT take up pocket space nor get lost. Also, it can include a personal greeting video to serve as a "nice meeting you" element. The v-card option allows them to store your info in their phone with one click and there's even a form so they can share their info back with you.
Message: Posted by: ibm_usa (Oct 19, 2016 01:07PM)
[quote]On Oct 16, 2016, eatonmagic wrote:
This is precisely the reason I have began creating digital business cards. These can be delivered via text, email or better yet, SMS campaign. Heres a sample one: www.eatonmagic.com/digicardtest2

it functions just like a business card but with the ability to be on you at all times and NOT take up pocket space nor get lost. Also, it can include a personal greeting video to serve as a "nice meeting you" element. The v-card option allows them to store your info in their phone with one click and there's even a form so they can share their info back with you. [/quote]
NICE - how did you go about creating one or is it just simply a website?
Message: Posted by: Carl Andrews (Oct 26, 2016 12:18AM)
You may want to check out my custom magic App. This is my new business card that I create for other magicians as well. It gives the clients or audience a fun App to perform for their friends and direct links to you.

http://carlandrews.com/custommagicapp.html

"Beautiful work, brilliant! BIG Thanks!
ó Marc Salem
"Thanks for the great App Carl!
What a brilliant new marketing idea - it's the only 'business card' I'll ever need ;)"
ó Tim Ellis
"Carl I love my Magic App not only is it a cool magic giveaway at my shows but it puts my website in front of hundreds more people a month.
And I never have to worry about a client losing my Business card because it's on their phone
Thank you again," ó Erick Olson
"Carl's new magic app is fantastic! The interactive effects are easy to do yet baffling for the user. Being able to tell people that you have a free app is impressive and the best part is they will share it with their friends!" ó Tony Brent, Outta Control Magic Comedy Dinner Show