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Topic: Tenyo 2017 line
Message: Posted by: Bob_Hummer (Oct 15, 2016 05:43AM)
The discussion has already started over here:

Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Oct 15, 2016 12:34PM)
That discussion should be in this category. And I'll repost the message I wrote over there.

While acknowledging that what someone likes is a subjective thing, that thread is total nonsense.

First, So Sato's effect "Magic Maze" has ZERO to do with Hideo Kato's trick "All Roads Lead to Rome." If you had the trick in hand and understood that the spectator has free choices EVERY step of the way you would know that.

Second, There is no doubt that Lubor was a genius, but not every trick he created for Tenyo was great. "Ghost Cards" was in particular a disappointment. Not many people like "Security Lock," either, but that's because it takes good audience management and presentation to present it as something more than a puzzle.

Sugawara also had his share of lesser ideas in his later years at Tenyo. Look and "Money Shredder" and "Bill Cutter" and you'll get my point.

Stop wallowing in misplaced nostalgia. You--magicians--are a teeny-tiny percent of Tenyo's customers for its magic tricks. You really do not matter at all. Their market is Japanese laymen and kids. Their tricks are sold not only at the Tenyo Magic Corners, but at toy stores all over the country. Their real customers don't want big hunks of weird looking plastic any more. It has nothing to do with saving money, but everything to do with putting products on the market that will appeal to the current tastes of their consumers.

I was at the Tenyo office the other day and had the four main tricks demonstrated for me. They're great: I suggest you buy them, practice a bit, and perform them on laymen and see the reactions you get. You will not be disappointed. Several of the tricks released this year are improvements on existing tricks, and they are FAR FAR better than what has come before. The new version of the Winston Freer puzzle is astounding.
Force a card on a spectator, pour a little water in the black bowl, and swirl the water around and watch the card appear ... and then disappear. The spectator's eyes will bug out. All four tricks are equally good.

I wrote the English language instructions for the four Super Mentalism items so I know first-hand how good they are. How mystifying and how simple to do.

So stop lamenting the past: that gets you nowhere. Buy the new tricks, learn them, and perform them. After you've done that you have some grounds to have an educated discussion about them.
Message: Posted by: Bob_Hummer (Oct 15, 2016 08:32PM)
Here is my contribution to that thread. Despite how it may read - I am still very positive about Tenyo and think Richard (in the post above) makes a lot of good points...

Videos of the new effects can be found here: http://www.murphysmagic.com/Search.aspx?t=167


It is not the same without Lubor Fiedler.

I always hoped they might have a bunch of prototypes in reserve that they could market in the future.

The glory years of Tenyo have passed - in terms of the peaks they used to hit in the 90s and early 2000s. But they are still turning out mostly original and novel magic each year - for a reasonable price. So they are still providing a good service to magicians. And they do manage to turn out good tricks from time to time.

The heart of Tenyo was Shigeru Sugawara and Lubor Fiedler. And they have both gone now. I always felt Tenyo should have used Angelo Carbone more since he is the only other person in magic who has the potential to take over the mantle of Shigeru and Lubor.

Tenyo will still come up with great magic from time to time. And maybe one day there will be a renaissance at the company. So I am optimistic for the future. It is like a brilliant sports team whose best players have retired. They still have a history to inspire them in the future but it will take time to find replacements. That said - my fear is that the passion and vision that Akira Yamada had for the company will be replaced with a more pragmatic one which is not so concerned with produced innovative and brilliant tricks. It will take a lot of effort to try and live up to the past and not everyone is prepared to dedicate the time, effort and money to doing so.

Tenyo has a wonderful history (as beautifully described in the Richard Kaufman book). So - in a sense - I see anything else they produce in the future as a happy bonus. Still - I always hold out hope that they will occasionally hit it out the park with at least some of the new releases. And the tricks they release are always interesting on some level. But in recent years - they have not been pushing the boundaries with new methods and principles in the way they once did.

It used to be that at least a couple of tricks would be very good each year. Now it feels like you need about 3 years of releases before you find a couple of really good ones. And as a batting average - it is one I can live with. Also - this year - Tenyo are releasing a mentalism line which will make it easier for people to snap up some of the Tenyo Special Plus One tricks which have been very hard to find until now.

Also - with the 2017 line - it is nice to see Hideo Kato's Maze effect given the spotlight it deserves. But at the same time - that trick was originally published about 40 years ago. So it does add to the feeling that Tenyo are struggling to come up with breakthrough ideas in the way they once did. I am a big fan of geometric vanishes or anything using topological type thinking. So I am happy to see one in the 2017 line - even if it is not exactly cutting edge magic.

I am 100% behind Tenyo. And always find something interesting in their new releases. But I can see why others may feel the efforts are not as stellar as they once were.

Joe Mckay
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Oct 18, 2016 11:57AM)
I think Psycho Gravity and Water Crystal look outstanding. Plus, they don't look like toys.

I can see using Water Crystal for a demonstration of scrying, and Psycho Gravity as a study of what is science and what is magic. Very excited about these two.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Oct 18, 2016 01:02PM)
I agree, [i]Water Crystal[/i] would be a nice addition for telling the future (scrying).
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Oct 18, 2016 08:49PM)
There was a 10 year period when Lubor was hospitalized for depression and had no Tenyo tricks in the line.

There was an almost equally long period when Sugawara simply had no ideas he felt were worthy of presenting in the
product meeting.

Tenyo did just fine, and put out some of its best products, with Hiroshi Kondo, Tomoyuki Shimomura, Toru Suzuki, and Angelo Carbone. Then Konichi Komiya joined the Creative Division and has been doing excellent work. And of course now So Sato has added yet another level to their output.

You can long for the past, and for big hunks of plastic, but you will never be happy with the present, and what is to come. That's not a good way to live. (It also has nothing to do with what Tenyo's real customers want.) If you just like Tenyo's older items, then stop buying the new ones and lamenting what you consider is no longer there.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Oct 18, 2016 09:38PM)
I didn't know that happened to Lubor :( . Such a talented and creative man. Glad he came out of that :) .
Message: Posted by: Bob_Hummer (Oct 19, 2016 04:54PM)
I always felt Lubor hit a new creative peak after he recovered from his depression. Strange how the mind works.
Message: Posted by: MikeMgc (Oct 21, 2016 09:45AM)
Lubor was a true Genius and took "Creative Magic Thinking" to new Levels.
Message: Posted by: MikeMgc (Oct 21, 2016 09:48AM)
Just seen a demo of Water Crystal and this looks incredible. Psycho Gravity also. So many possibilities.
Message: Posted by: ProfW (Nov 4, 2016 01:47PM)
Waaait a minute! Did you know that Tenyo's Water Crystal can't take water? Yep, Tenno is selling a water trick that is ruined if you use water! Whaaat? Seems that water warps the polarizer that makes this trick work! C'mon, Tenyo, really? You couldn't find something that could stand up to water. Really? Don't buy this until Tenyo comes clean on this. Very disappointed in Tenyo.
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Nov 4, 2016 02:28PM)
ProfW, are you sure about that? How do you know?
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Nov 4, 2016 10:54PM)
He's partially right. It does warp in water unfortunately. The instructions tell you to re wet it and lay it flat to straighten it out. It does help a little but the disc still has some warp to it though so far, it isn't affecting the trick yet.

I did notice it works if you swirl it dry but it makes a bit of noise and looks weird. It still look kind of cool when the card materializes.
Message: Posted by: Killertweety (Nov 5, 2016 03:30AM)
Wow ... I didn't try mine out yet, but if this is true that would be a shame indeed :(
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Nov 5, 2016 08:51AM)
It doesn't affect the trick if you follow the instructions.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Nov 5, 2016 06:20PM)
[quote]On Nov 5, 2016, Richard Kaufman wrote:
It doesn't affect the trick if you follow the instructions. [/quote]

Richard's right. With the water in it you don't notice anything and for me at least, the little bend here and there isn't much.
Message: Posted by: Coolmanclyde (Nov 6, 2016 12:24AM)
Interested in Water Crystal and preorders start shipping next week. How have you guys gotten your hands on this early?
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Nov 6, 2016 01:22AM)
[quote]On Nov 6, 2016, Coolmanclyde wrote:
Interested in Water Crystal and preorders start shipping next week. How have you guys gotten your hands on this early? [/quote]

Read above for the answer you seek :) .
Message: Posted by: Coolmanclyde (Nov 6, 2016 11:28AM)
Oh yeah I see. I am really wanting to see this in person and or see/read more reviews.
Message: Posted by: ThatsCool (Nov 6, 2016 11:59AM)
[quote]On Nov 6, 2016, Coolmanclyde wrote:
Oh yeah I see. I am really wanting to see this in person and or see/read more reviews. [/quote]

It's kind of cool looking and comes with extra gimmicks to customize the message, card, or picture you want to materialize, which is an extra nice touch :) .
Message: Posted by: AndreOng1 (Nov 9, 2016 11:11PM)
Anymore reviews regarding the 2017 line?
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Nov 10, 2016 12:56PM)
What did you want to know?
Message: Posted by: AndreOng1 (Nov 12, 2016 01:20PM)
I'm interestd in Psycho Gravity .
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Nov 12, 2016 09:27PM)
I saw it demonstrated in person by the originator in Tokyo. It looks great--like the rolling puck has a mind of its own. I'm having a bit of trouble getting mine to work exactly right, but I think it's just a matter of adjusting "something" and working with it a bit more.

All of this year's tricks require a little more practice than usual.
Message: Posted by: meridianfan (Nov 13, 2016 09:30AM)
Can you store the 'special something' in the puck or are people cleaning out each time?

I suppose if you go too long without cleaning (and the special something changes while inside) it may be hard to fix.
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Nov 13, 2016 12:32PM)
You do not need to clean it regularly. Once you put it in and plug it, it should be good for a long time.
The "it" is water soluble, so a good soak cleans it easily.
Message: Posted by: Uncle Joe (Nov 13, 2016 07:41PM)
Yes. The water crystal is a little disappointing. The polarised sheet does warp considerably
and it doesn't retain it's original flat shape after following the instructions.
It's really obvious there's 'something ' floating. They should have used better material.
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Nov 13, 2016 08:57PM)
U. Joe: there should be nothing floating: the upper disc should remain at the bottom, not float up. The instructions describe pushing it down right after you pour the water in. Once down, it should stay down.
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Dec 24, 2016 11:43AM)
MMMM, I have one of these for a Christmas present, don't like what I am reading here, looking forward so much to using it and wanting it to last,well we will see.
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Dec 25, 2016 06:37AM)
Well I have played about with Water Crystal a fair bit this morning and you can make up about anything you want to reveal from a torn corner of a bike card,message on a bit of card and all works great so can't really see there being a problem once you know how it work's gonna chuck a few mystical smymbols on mine make it look like a black magic scrying dish :).
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Dec 25, 2016 07:27AM)
Just to add there is some warp in the material supplied, wonder if I can indeed get some for a back up to use if it becomes worse?.
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Dec 25, 2016 04:24PM)
There is a method in the instructions for decreasing the warp. However, even though my disc has warped slightly, it has not affected my performance of this excellent effect.
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Dec 26, 2016 03:55AM)
Still liking this Richard and it has so many possibilities, you can chuck anything in it as I said, torn corner of card and I going to make a lot of written messages that have come from the other side,Spooookyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, Merry Christmas to you sir :)
Message: Posted by: wil3923 (Jan 6, 2017 03:59AM)
Psycho Gravity is the best in my opinion. Showing it at a Christmas party gig and it blows people away. The method of divining the spectator's choice and the mystical movement of the cylinder is ingenious.