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Topic: Cups Opinion
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Mar 6, 2017 05:34PM)
Say there was a set of cups available that are almost indestructible, It can't be caused, cracked, dented, scratched and mouth never go out of round if dropped, withstand heat temperature of boiling water. What would a set of cups like this
be worth to the magic community? Especially strolling magicians. Any insight is appreciated. Final loads are REALLY silent. Even in white a 2" Chrome ball bearing can not be detected.

The cons of the cups so far. My Rott managed to chew through it after 2 hours and a 45 Magnum makes it vanish.

Mad Jake Jr.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Mar 16, 2017 11:54AM)
Jake, you need to call them "Buskers Delight!" They sound very interesting!

Message: Posted by: Tom G (Mar 16, 2017 08:14PM)
I guess if you'r not shot at or attacked by a dog while performing you're safe??? They sound interesting, but also like some kind of plastic or synthetic. I do like my metal cups. But out in the real rough and tumble world, just what the doctor ordered.
Message: Posted by: William Dee (Mar 16, 2017 10:31PM)
Carbon Fiber?
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Mar 17, 2017 06:33AM)
PLA, ABS, Delrin, Carbon Fiber, Poly Carbonate they are all to dense to pull it off. Jr. has designed a material that will now take a 45 magnum at 20 feet away and all it does is knock the cup off the target stand.
.The material is so resilient you could run it over with a car. and pick it up and go right back to your routine. His pitch is towards children's parties where any 10 year old could snatch your cups or cup. They
don't dent, scratch, crack and they are still rigid enough to feel comfortable in your hands. and they will next 3 on the saddle. Not enough room in your case for transport? No problem, just fold them up or
just stuff them in between props. When you take them out, you give them a couple rubs between your hands and the cups are perfect again.

As for a playful Rot chewing on them for 2 hours or so, well Jr. hasn't worked that part out yet.

They're not for everyone, but if you know you'll be in a situation where someone want's to examine and might drop it, they'll be ok.

So far he's done them in white and was able to tint the material with a deeper white, you can have 3 Fire Red balls stacked and there is no transparency.
Same goes for final loads. He produced 3 large steel ball bearings and they loaded with no sound and no visibility through each cup.

A prototype set has been sent out to someone and we will wait till he reports back on the durability of the cups as well as any pro and cons.

AS Pete Biro always says "Stay Tooned"

Mad Jake Sr.
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Mar 17, 2017 07:15PM)
I'm listening.
Message: Posted by: Tom Fenton (Mar 18, 2017 06:50AM)
They sound good to me Jake.
Nearly indestructable cups are always going to be very useful.

Message: Posted by: cbguy (Mar 18, 2017 11:18AM)
Can you/will you make an ungimmicked benson bowl from this material as well?
Message: Posted by: Peckham (Mar 18, 2017 02:01PM)
Sounds like Kevlar.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Mar 18, 2017 07:45PM)
Nope, not Kvlar, unless you want to pay 1K for a set and even then there are properties in Kevlar that wouldn't allow
the shape to return. I put one under my Mustang back tire and rolled over a cup a few times today and it sprung right
back into shape.

cbguy, I probably could, but would have to look at the ratio of material to size of the bowl and design. If you're talking about
the design my father had with RNT2, then yes, I could probably make you one like that. Through 3 cups in the over
set to 200 degrees, material was pliable. It adapted to the cooler air in about 5 minutes and it was badk to it's same
shape. I'm trying all sorts of ideas to put this material up against adverse actions and it's passing all the tests, well
I still have my dad's Rot, Saint and he did get teeth holes in it.

Another application I was thinking this would be good for would be wand tips, just as protective covers.

Mad Jake Jr.
Message: Posted by: Jay (Mar 18, 2017 10:06PM)
This sounds great, Jake. I am thinking that it sounds like a soft silicone material. I have a set of silicone wine glasses that I've often thought would be perfect for the cups and balls, were it not for the wine glass shape. Either way, I am intrigued!
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Mar 19, 2017 12:22AM)
It's not a silicone. I've changed the chemical properties of something. So far after adding different dyes to it, I've been successful in creating the true Opaque White, Black, Super Blue, I tried yellow and red, both had a negative reaction to the base. I made one cup in each color and had
a complete breakdown in the cup when pressure is applied to them. I don't know why it break down with these 2 particular colors, but I'm going to have to find alternative dyes and with the EPA on it's way out I shouldn't have a hard time, but safety is my first concern.
It also has 2 enemies, Acetone and Gasoline. Kerosine is fine, but the other two destroys them.

I'm enjoying the project and I think I'm only a few days away from having it in producible material with the exception of having to test tints and dyes with it.

I did enlarge the saddle and it nests 3 balls just fine.

Mad Jake Jr.
Message: Posted by: Tom Fenton (Mar 19, 2017 04:58AM)
Those Super Blue cups sound great.
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Mar 19, 2017 02:48PM)
Now I'm picturing you in a secret lab like Walter White. "I've changed the chemical properties of something." Good God man, I hope you are wearing protective gear :)

Seriously though, the material sounds awesome. I'm wondering if aside from making props out of it, is there a magic effect possible using this material?
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Mar 19, 2017 04:05PM)
I've made some notes a long the way. There might be some other uses. Nothing really dangerous about this material. You can change any chemical property simply by adding tap water to it.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Mar 19, 2017 05:45PM)
I've set in motion the first set of cups. I will photograph and video the cups as well in action.

Jake Jr.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Mar 20, 2017 08:53AM)
I actually have a signature routine that I have been using Porper wooden cups for.This sounds interesting and possibly a better alternative! Intriguing!
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Mar 20, 2017 09:26AM)
funny you should mention wooden cups. By the end of the week I have a 4 Axis milling machine arriving. We'll be able to do in house CNC cup work and cup engraving. I've had a few PM's about wands. The only wands I can recommend is
first choice Brett Sherwood and Thomas Wayne.

Brian do you remember the Foxy 1 and the Foxy 2 cups in the early days of RNT2? Mike Brazill and I used to pitch that you could use Foxy 1 cups as final loads for the Foxy 2's. Well with the last change I made You can fit a Foxy 2 style cup
inside the smaller Foxy 1 cup as a final load and the Foxy 2's are 2/3rd larger than the Foxy 1 cups. Please I'm not bragging, but this particular project I started with my dad and it kept challenging us and we ran with it.

Thanks to everyone for feedback and positive energy.

All the Best,
Mad Jake Jr.

PS Brian, have you done a second run on your cups yet?
Message: Posted by: cbguy (Mar 20, 2017 10:45AM)
Mad Jake: I'm really looking forward to seeing these bad boys and a Benson Bowl like your Dad's design for RnT2 is perfect.

Message: Posted by: Al Kazam the Magic Man (Mar 20, 2017 11:56AM)
I'm keen as well.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Mar 24, 2017 08:12PM)
[quote]On Mar 20, 2017, cbguy wrote:
Mad Jake: I'm really looking forward to seeing these bad boys and a Benson Bowl like your Dad's design for RnT2 is perfect.

Thanks! [/quote]

We're beginning tonight on getting everything set up for production, once we complete 1 set I'll post pictures and a video on YouTube.

As for the Benson Bowl, the dimensions could be a problem, I mean it would work, but a pita to actually produce. However my father gave me a book by Starlight
on Roy Benson and. have the exact replica of the bowl that Roy used to his exact specs. I'll play with the dimensions of both bowls and let you know which is
the best.

Mad Jake Jr.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Mar 24, 2017 08:15PM)
[quote]On Mar 20, 2017, Al Kazam the Magic Man wrote:
I'm keen as well. [/quote]

Thanks for posting, which are you keen on, cups or bowls? Look forward to hearing from you.

Mad Jake Jr.
Message: Posted by: cbguy (Mar 25, 2017 07:23PM)
Thanks for the update Mad Jake Jr. Hopefully the bowl works out.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Mar 25, 2017 09:22PM)
Hello Jake:

Please keep me in the loop on this!

Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Mar 26, 2017 04:46AM)
OMG, Bill it's so good to see you here. Can you PM me so I can send you a Message? Will chat
with you then and I hope you are in good spirits and health.

Jake Sr.
Message: Posted by: Tom G (Apr 7, 2017 08:16PM)
What ever happened to these cups?
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Apr 7, 2017 09:04PM)
[quote]On Apr 7, 2017, Tom G wrote:
What ever happened to these cups? [/quote]

there is a couple sets being tested, I should have pictures up this weekend.

Mad Jake Jr.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Apr 9, 2017 10:25PM)
Sorry, can't figure out how to get video on here. If you have a facebook page, Just PM me and I'll post it to your timeline.

Jake Jr.
Message: Posted by: Tom G (Apr 15, 2017 09:10PM)
You could post the video on Youtube and post the link here.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Apr 16, 2017 04:57AM)
Thank you Tom, I didn't even think of YouTube. Guess I'll toddle on over there and make an account. I made an improvement to the cups. With the last version say if you were to run over them with a car they would have to be laying on their side.
Well after some alterations, you can now stand one saddle up and run over it and it springs right back up. I'm not making these like this to show your friends you can run over their magic, rather you can trust them as tough equipment.
Message: Posted by: plungerman (Apr 18, 2017 11:27AM)
Dogs are crazy for the smelly solvents in most plastics. We can't smell them but they are like cat-nip for dogs.

I'm sure people here could work out a routine with a cup that has a bullet wedged in the side or even a bullet hole.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Apr 18, 2017 02:31PM)
That would explain why he chewed holes in my stainless Monti cups, the small of the plastic. As for the bullet hole, there was none. Just testing to see what kind of marks different forces would leave on the cups. The cups are
not meant to be abused but to see how they will hold up under extreme treatment due to say dropping,, crushing etc. I think only Gazzo would take a pistol out and shoot his cup if it gave him headaches, LOL.

After the run of these, I'm going back to the rigid cups made of Delrin. Despite what people want to call the material, they are not plastic, but a resin.
Message: Posted by: mikenewman (May 5, 2017 09:36AM)
These sound AWESOME!!!

Did you ever take any pics or video yet?
I could come down and help you as far as that goes! :)
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (May 5, 2017 04:33PM)
We had some machinery die on us while prroducing some other items. We back online with a all new equipment and it's back to this project.
You're welcome to come down any day.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (May 13, 2017 10:11AM)
Jr is back to work on these, will keep you posted and hopefully some pictures and videos for everyone too.

Mad Jake Sr.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (May 24, 2017 01:04AM)
Well the final filament is finished, ti's now ready to make cups. will only be making 15, you have your choice of bulk or white. Also you have the choice of the size of the cups. We did the drive over test again on them with mouth down on the ground.
I rean over it with my care slowly the cup flattened and when the wheel came off the cup, it sprung right up with no damage. Production time depends on the size of the cups. Each set comes with Alien Skin Cups, balls Chinese red with gold glitter in the balls. and a bag. These are not
plastic, these are the most durable cups you will ever get your hands on . Again I'm only making 15 sets and then moving on to a new project of Chink a Chinks I'll probably only do 6 sets of those.

The white cups are completely Opaque you can put a Bright red ball under one and no one can see it.. Great for strolling . No matter what size you want is $100.00 per set. If you click on the Lin under my text that will take you to sign up
for my New letter. Reservations for the cups can just be PM'd to me here.

PS. The cups will be Hallmarked.

Mad Jake Jr.
Message: Posted by: ekins (May 24, 2017 08:44PM)
This is great news. I know there's a lot of curiosity about these cups. Any chance you can post some pictures?