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Topic: Bicycle Elite Edition Playing Cards (Rider Back)
Message: Posted by: dr_catman (Apr 29, 2017 06:30AM)
I just saw on Penguin the "Bicycle® Elite Edition Playing Cards" and was wondering who has had a chance to use them and how they compare to the standard Rider backs.

These are meant to also have Rider backs. Do they have the air cushion finish as well?

My local dealer doesn't have any for me to try and I was keen to pick some up. Any help is much appreciated.
Message: Posted by: TRI6KED (May 4, 2017 02:13PM)
I was wondering how these compare to Bicycle Playing Cards (Gold Standard) - by Richard Turner
Message: Posted by: niva (May 4, 2017 04:07PM)
Did I notice correctly? They brought back the old cardbox with the card back on one side? I have been saving the older card boxes for some time now because that back allows for some great things.
Message: Posted by: Mercury52 (May 5, 2017 03:38PM)
Hey everyone. These are exclusive to Penguin (we did a custom run) and will not be available elsewhere for quite some time.

The biggest difference between these and the Turner Gold Seals are that those are printed on Bee stock, which is thicker and stiffer than standard Bike stock. The Elite Edition are printed on a thin-crushed stock that is thinner and softer than standard Bike stock but still just as snappy and durable. Yes, they do have the embossed "Air Cushion" finish, but with USPCC's top-of-the-line coating.

The first run is very nearly sold out. We do have a 2nd printing underway, but they will not be ready for about 2 months.

The Elite Edition do have the old-style box (much more useful for magicians) and NO seals or stickers of any kind. The pull tab/tear strip on the cellophane works. Duplicate Color jokers. Blank facer and double backer in the box.

Enjoy!
Message: Posted by: niva (May 5, 2017 04:25PM)
Hope you will have the second run ready for the sam/ibm convention in Kentucky.
Message: Posted by: dr_catman (May 5, 2017 06:28PM)
Thanks Penguin, went ahead and got myself a couple packs which arrived yesterday. Promptly went ahead to get a couple bricks last night. These are really smooth.
Are you going to go ahead with a run of blue backs?
Message: Posted by: barts185 (May 5, 2017 06:29PM)
Chance that Mark Calabrese actually threw out all his cards? :nose: LOL
Message: Posted by: dr_catman (May 5, 2017 07:00PM)
[quote]On May 5, 2017, barts185 wrote:
Chance that Mark Calabrese actually threw out all his cards? :nose: LOL [/quote]

Use them to practice card throws :)
Message: Posted by: Mercury52 (May 6, 2017 07:25PM)
Yes, second batch should hopefully be done in time for IBM/SAM. I'm not really involved with whether or not we have a booth, and if so, what gets offered/sold. But I imagine since a Brent Braun (our convention dealer rep extraordinaire) lives in Louisville and love the Elite Bikes, we'll probably have them there.

No idea if Mark is actually throwing away his old cards, but he was the very first person to place an order for some, and he bought quite a lot.

No firm plans or dates for a Blue back yet, but am keeping an eye out on requests to see if demand is there overall. No promises, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.
Message: Posted by: niva (May 7, 2017 11:19AM)
Penguin is listed on the convention website. That's why I asked ;)
Message: Posted by: Honest John T (May 12, 2017 03:55PM)
I just bought a brick from Penguin and they are fantastic! The cards handle beautifully right out of the box. Like others here I missed the old "Rider Back" box. I even have a couple bricks of the originals that I use on special occasions. The Elites are even better since you don't have to pull off the sticker and eliminate the residual glue. The gaffs are a nice touch too. The Elite edition should be very popular with magicians.
Message: Posted by: RevConfused (May 13, 2017 01:20PM)
I went to order a couple of bricks of these and the postage to the UK was $95......

I post and receive things from the US regularly, but...$95?.....
Message: Posted by: montanna40 (May 20, 2017 05:02PM)
This has been among several things I want to purchase abroad
But the shipping costs is astronomical. And this is just for a pack of cards
Message: Posted by: AznSAmagic (May 21, 2017 07:45PM)
Even getting stuff shipped from USA to Canada has increased over the past little while to the point where shipping costs are the same as the price of a brick of cards. Really want to try these tho.
Message: Posted by: niva (May 22, 2017 12:19AM)
Shipping prices have been ridiculous especially through ebay.
Message: Posted by: Lempereur (May 25, 2017 04:31PM)
[quote]On May 13, 2017, RevConfused wrote:
I went to order a couple of bricks of these and the postage to the UK was $95......

I post and receive things from the US regularly, but...$95?..... [/quote]

Rev: May I ask where you were looking to order from?

Penguin Magic has them pre-order for $39.95. per brick. Not sure what the UK shipping would be
but they are usually reasonable.

Jim Rose :bikes:

PS: Just pre-ordered 3 bricks!
Message: Posted by: niva (May 26, 2017 05:08AM)
Can anyone comment on how well these cards faro please?
Message: Posted by: dr_catman (May 27, 2017 08:29PM)
[quote]On May 26, 2017, niva wrote:
Can anyone comment on how well these cards faro please? [/quote]

They seem to do so it well. No complaints
Message: Posted by: niva (May 28, 2017 01:26AM)
Thanks!
Message: Posted by: RevConfused (Jun 8, 2017 01:47PM)
[quote]On May 25, 2017, Lempereur wrote:
[quote]On May 13, 2017, RevConfused wrote:
I went to order a couple of bricks of these and the postage to the UK was $95......

I post and receive things from the US regularly, but...$95?..... [/quote]

Rev: May I ask where you were looking to order from?

Penguin Magic has them pre-order for $39.95. per brick. Not sure what the UK shipping would be
but they are usually reasonable.

Jim Rose :bikes:

PS: Just pre-ordered 3 bricks! [/quote]


Hi Lempereur. It was Penguin I went to. The brisk price was find, but the shipping for 2 bricks was $95.
Message: Posted by: Lempereur (Jul 1, 2017 10:43AM)
I just took delivery of 3 Bricks of the Penguin's Bicycle Elite P3's.

All I can say is WOW!

The Elites feels like a cross between a deck of ellusionist's Keepers and T11 Artisans!

They feel wonderfully light. They faro ok, but it took a couple of trys to get the feel of it.
The "traditional" cut reminds me of Tally Ho. Some may not like the feel out of the box, but it
will not take long to get rid of the "rough" edges. I am use to it with Tally Hos.

At $40 a brick, that is $3.33 a deck, they have the feel of a $10-$12 deck. I saw one reviewer on Penguin
who used them exclusively for gambling routines. He said the Elites exceeded his expectations
and would recommend them over anything else under $10.

The Penguin Elites have the "new" "crushed" finish and are as thin as Artisans. A regular Bike card placed in the deck can be cut to immediately without any additional help, i.e. crimps or bends.

FIVE STARS -I love them and added a second review asking for Blue backs, these are Red only, AND a Tally Ho Red and Blue Elite version!

As soon as the Blue backs are available for pre-order, I am getting 4 Bricks this time!

There is a real good chance that these Elites will cut into the sales of the high end decks!
Message: Posted by: Magicmike1949 (Jul 1, 2017 10:39PM)
Just got a brick of these.Very impressed. Love to see blue as well in the future. I'll be buying more.
Message: Posted by: RevConfused (Jul 4, 2017 04:42PM)
Have you used Bicycle Gold Standard Turner decks, Lemp? They are my current fave. If you have, how do these compare as both are traditionally cut.
Message: Posted by: Robert M (Jul 5, 2017 01:19PM)
[quote]On Jul 4, 2017, RevConfused wrote:
Have you used Bicycle Gold Standard Turner decks, Lemp? They are my current fave. If you have, how do these compare as both are traditionally cut. [/quote]

"The biggest difference between these and the Turner Gold Seals are that those are printed on Bee stock, which is thicker and stiffer than standard Bike stock. The Elite Edition are printed on a thin-crushed stock that is thinner and softer than standard Bike stock but still just as snappy and durable."

I bought a brick as well and I love these cards. They table faro perfectly. I'm pretty sure I will be switching to these exclusively, but Penguin needs to print blue back decks, as well!

Robert
Message: Posted by: Mercury52 (Jul 11, 2017 08:33AM)
Glad to hear you guys are enjoying the Elite Bikes! It seems like they are rapidly becoming a favorite.

Two bits of info:

Blue decks are coming. I think at this point we can expect them around late Aug or early Sept. Not sure if they will be listed for preorder before they arrive, or if they will just go up for sale once printing is complete.

If you enjoy the "Marked Cards" project from Rick Lax, all future batches of those will also be on the Elite stock. They will also have 2 identical Jokers, a DB, and a Blank Face like the Elite Bikes instead of the extra Aces that were in the first run.
Message: Posted by: Lempereur (Jul 12, 2017 01:07AM)
[quote]On Jul 4, 2017, RevConfused wrote:
Have you used Bicycle Gold Standard Turner decks, Lemp? They are my current fave. If you have, how do these compare as both are traditionally cut. [/quote]

rev:

I have used the Turner Decks. I still have about 10 decks left. The Penguin Elites feel similar, except the thinness and the rough cut give them the feel of Artisans, which are my all time favorite. The new Elite stock gives the deck a fanning feel that I have not felt on any other deck, It is hard to explain!
I still like the Turner Bikes, but these P3 Bikes have just kicked the Keepers into my 2nd go to position for under $12 decks!
:bikes:
Message: Posted by: Lempereur (Jul 12, 2017 01:32AM)
[quote]On Jul 11, 2017, Mercury52 wrote:
Glad to hear you guys are enjoying the Elite Bikes! It seems like they are rapidly becoming a favorite.

Two bits of info:

Blue decks are coming. I think at this point we can expect them around late Aug or early Sept. Not sure if they will be listed for preorder before they arrive, or if they will just go up for sale once printing is complete.

If you enjoy the "Marked Cards" project from Rick Lax, all future batches of those will also be on the Elite stock. They will also have 2 identical Jokers, a DB, and a Blank Face like the Elite Bikes instead of the extra Aces that were in the first run. [/quote]

Kevin: Thanks so much for the great cards! They are worth 3 or 4 times the price.

Glad to hear the Blues are on the way. A couple of questions:

1. Has anyone given any feedback on how easy they are to split?

2. Have you entertained the idea of printing a few runs of standard gaff cards and standard gaff decks, i.e. oneway, a full deck of Blank face, value on both sides, all colored or all non colored joker decks, etc. ?,

3. How about the strippers, etc?

4. Any chance of a a Penguin Elite Tally Ho limited run???????

Thanks again for the price point.

Sincerely,

Jim Rose
aka
L'empereur
Message: Posted by: RevConfused (Jul 12, 2017 04:03PM)
Thanks for the info, Lemp. I just need to sort out the shipping !
Message: Posted by: Mercury52 (Jul 14, 2017 12:01PM)
Lempereur-

1 - I have split them myself, as has Jeremy Hanrahan. I haven't heard from anyone else about splitting them, but for me they're just as easy to split as any other USPCC deck.

2 - We have had brief thoughts and discussions on an Elite gaff deck with assorted cards, but if it ever happens it will be some time off. Adding in one or two odd gaffs on regular Bike stock doesn't really throw off an Elite deck.

3 - This is a definite possibility. May not be offered on the site super soon. If anything, message me and I can make you a one-off. I'd say that "altered" gaffs such as Strippers, Svengalis, Invisibles, etc are likely to come sooner than printed gaffs.

4 - Funny that you mention this, it's an idea that I started discussing right after we first released the Elite Bikes. I've chatted with the bosses at Penguin, as well as the folks at USPCC. I don't think it's likely anytime soon. If it happens (big if) it would be 2018 or later. I think it's more likely that we would do a borderless deck on Elite stock before we go to Tally-Ho. That said, Blue Circle backs are one of my favorite decks, so I'd love to do an Elite version.
Message: Posted by: Brian Proctor (Jul 18, 2017 04:33AM)
I have been playing with the elite deck all week. I love this thing. One thing I noticed immediately is how much faster I can cull cards because of the finish of the card. If you thought road runner cull was good on regular cards, try it on elite decks.
Message: Posted by: Mercury52 (Aug 24, 2017 08:14PM)
Couple points of news:

Our "Marked Cards" are now on Elite stock as well, so you can have marked or unmarked Elite Bikes.

Blue decks (unmarked) will be available for preorder early next week and begin shipping in early September.
Message: Posted by: Mercury52 (Aug 28, 2017 03:37PM)
Hi everyone. Blue Elite Bikes are up for preorder now, shipping next Monday.

http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/8919

Enjoy!
Message: Posted by: AmazingKeithy (Oct 3, 2017 08:03PM)
There is absolutely nothing wrong with these cards except that the deck shipped to me did not Faro very well out-of-the-box. I made the decision to switch to Phoenix decks a few years ago as one of my favorite effects is Unshuffled and I simply got tired of the hit-or-miss Faro from a brick of Bicycle decks. Phoenix decks are practically guaranteed to Faro perfectly from the factory. That, coupled with all of the gaffed matching decks, makes Phoenix my go to deck.

Your mileage may vary.
Message: Posted by: Mercury52 (Apr 20, 2018 11:39AM)
Very happy to say that we're adding a borderless option to the Elite Edition family of decks. Honeybee Elite provide a classic Red & Blue design with the same great feel of Bicycle Elite with the thin-crush stock. Available now on Kickstarter:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/penguinmagic/honeybee-elite-edition-playing-cards
Message: Posted by: hypnoman1 (May 28, 2018 11:24AM)
Thanks so much for the great cards! They really are worth 3 or 4 times the price.

I am looking forward to the Blue BikesI have used many versions but feel that these will be the only cards I keep in my arsenal!
Message: Posted by: Angelo Carbone (Feb 19, 2019 11:41AM)
This may be an obvious or even silly question but are these thin crushed stock cards lighter in weight than standard bicycle cards? Does anyone know the gram difference?

Also I saw someone with a deck which had P3 printed on the bottom of the card case. Is that this deck? The elite version?
Message: Posted by: NEKKODDD (Mar 24, 2019 08:55AM)
[quote]On Feb 19, 2019, Angelo Carbone wrote:
This may be an obvious or even silly question but are these thin crushed stock cards lighter in weight than standard bicycle cards? Does anyone know the gram difference?

Also I saw someone with a deck which had P3 printed on the bottom of the card case. Is that this deck? The elite version? [/quote]

I believe the Elite is thinner, it sure feels that way.
Message: Posted by: Sebastian Oudot (Mar 25, 2019 04:50PM)
[quote]On Feb 19, 2019, Angelo Carbone wrote:
This may be an obvious or even silly question but are these thin crushed stock cards lighter in weight than standard bicycle cards? Does anyone know the gram difference?

Also I saw someone with a deck which had P3 printed on the bottom of the card case. Is that this deck? The elite version? [/quote]

It could be. I believe the "P3" is used specifically by Penguin. The place where they shoot all the Penguin Lives is called "P3 Magic Theater".

You can also find the "P3" on the "Marked Cards".


[quote]On Mar 24, 2019, NEKKODDD wrote:
I believe the Elite is thinner, it sure feels that way. [/quote]

They are indeed.

David Kenney from the magicorthodoxy youtube channel precisely measured the thickness of many decks reviewed on his channel.

The measurements (in millimeters) are based off of a stack of 10 cards.

http://magicorthodoxy.weebly.com/magic-reviews/card-thickness-how-will-these-cards-feel

As you can see, the Elite Edition from Penguin Magic is one of the thinnest deck on the market today, with 2.73 mm.

Just as comparison, the Bicycle Rider backs are 2.94 mm.

[youtube]Dp3gwQHv8Fw?t=228[/youtube]
Message: Posted by: Sebastian Oudot (Mar 28, 2019 07:00AM)
Do we know when these cards will be available again?
Message: Posted by: magicwiia (May 8, 2019 06:23PM)
I was told pre-ordered bricks should arrive late May or early June. As far as new orders are concerned, I am curious as well. The pre-order status is gone and has been replaced with "out of stock".

Not good news as I will get another brick if they start accepting new order.
Message: Posted by: MagicBarMan (Jun 6, 2019 10:11AM)
They came in and are already out again. Does anyone know of any other “thin crush” style of card like the Elites that have a softer broken in feel?
Message: Posted by: Powell (Nov 30, 2020 08:14PM)
Niva asked if these faro well. Yes, they do, but not nearly as well as Gold Seals, not least of all because they are "crushed," thereby being a bit thiner than Golds. I do one-handed faros with both hands, have about a 20% hit rate with perfect one-hand faros in each, so I know of what I write. Also do perfect table faros nearly 100% of the time. The Elites work for this, but I like the Golds better.
For regular faros, either should be perfect.
I hope this helped.

~ Brian Foley
Message: Posted by: Carderrez (Jan 24, 2021 07:49PM)
I realize this is an old thread. However I think I have some information to contribute as well as a question about the Thin Crushed, Web Press stock. I believe they come with similar gaff cards to the Elites, but may or may not be a fraction of a millimeter thinner per card.

I do not consider myself an expert on playing cards, but playing cards are the primary focus of my magic. Understanding the cards I use is vital to creating gimmicks, gaffs and practicing sleights.

My favorite working decks are the Gold Standards and the Elites. However knowing why needs to go deeper than they just feel good. I need to know why. Now that I have all the facts sitting right in front of me I felt I should share what I have discovered.

I really started to get serious on the topic when I established a new practice routine. I knew what I liked to work with, but I also wanted to be sure to work cards more difficult to handle. That is when I found the Expert Playing Card Superior Robusto. These are the cards I begin my practice with.

The Robusto has a density of 96.46 grams and 52 cards are 16.5 mm. These cards by far have the highest molecular density I have ever encountered. They are difficult to work with which makes them the perfect deck to start off with in my practice rotation. They remind me of the rear suspension springs on a motor vehicle. They have spring to them, but you wouldn't know it unless significant force is applied, and this can only be done by holding the cards at one extremity to achieve the spring necessary to riffle shuffle the opposing ends. Its takes significant finger strength to just dribble them.

The next deck is the Gold Standard they have a density of 86.76 grams and 52 cards are 15.4 mm thick. These cards have the same thickness as a retail Bicycle 808, but have a higher molecular density. These cards have much more spring to them than the Standard Retail Bicycle 808 which is a spongier card at 84.46 grams.

I then move over to the Elites, which is a real eye opener for 52 cards at 14.4 mm thick they have a density of 85.26 grams which is one gram less in volume than a Gold Standard and a little under a gram more than retail Bikes. These cards have a higher molecular density than the Gold Standards but they are thinner.

Lastly I shift to the retail deck. Which I have pretty much covered 15.4 mm thick at 84.46 grams. Taking a single card from the Gold Standard or the Elite and comparing the spring to a single retail 808. They feel porous the spring more like that of a sponge.

I worry less about the finish on the cards (although I know this matters), buy the time I get done practicing with them they are pretty worn, and I push them beyond that point to push myself.

I prefer to use both the Elites and the Gold Standards as far as handling is concerned depending on the effect. I use all three grades for gaffing and gimmicking depending on the effect.

The Expert Playing Card Superior Robusto is my warm-up deck. If I can perform a slight with the Robusto, I can perform it with any deck, and in the off hand chance I am handed a deck with similar properties to a Robusto performing impromptu. I will know my limitations.

That leads into the final thought. I practice will all of these decks, so in the real world challenge of impromptu I am vetted.

I do not recall if I have tried to split the Elites, but I don't think there is much benefit unless the point is to extract the core. I don't think there is any significant difference in the thickness of the outer layers between the Bicycle decks.

Again I am sharing this information because I ran the numbers on these decks, but my main reason for posting is to find out if anyone has worked with the Thin Crushed, Web Press stock and compared it to the Elites. Are they the same stock or is there a notable difference?
Message: Posted by: Carderrez (Jan 27, 2021 05:39PM)
Since my last post I have received a brick of the "Thin Crushed Stock" 52 cards measure at 14.3 mm thick and weigh 84.5 grams .76 grams less the Elites but are only 0.00576923076 mm thinner per card. They appear to be using the same molecular porous core as a retail Bicycle deck. They have similar spring to the Elites out of the box, but I believe because they are using the more porous core the spring will not last as long. I do not see any real advantage over the Elites unless maybe for gaffing or some very specific effects and/or some very specific handling.
Message: Posted by: Carderrez (Jan 31, 2021 12:35PM)
I thought I would run the numbers on the Conjuror Community Deck and found it measured it at 15.5 mm thick for 52 cards and 86.4 grams, those numbers indicate it using the same or similar core as the Gold Standards or the Elites. Another deck that has garnered recent attention is the DMC Elite v5 these measure in at 15.4 mm an 84.6 grams and appear to be similar card stock to the retail Bicycles.

I hope this information is helpful. I have learned over the years especially when it comes to gaffing, mixing the right card stock can help to create a more perfect gaff or gimmicked deck, and these numbers come in handy for this. And of course depending on the effect and the handling required some decks perform better than others and it's just a good to practice with all the gradations to find the best fit.