Topic: Temporarily Out of Order Review Vs. Memorandum - Who will win??
 Message: Posted by: MadisonH (May 26, 2017 04:14PM)
Hello everyone,

I want to give a full review of Patrick Redford's book "Temporarily Out of Order" followed by how I feel it stacks up to Memorandum by Woody Aragon (pun intended.)

Temporarily Out of Order:

Getting into Redford Stack:
After the forward and introduction (with a hidden trick within) the book starts by showing the order of the stack followed by an explanation of how to get into the stack from Si Stebbins with a casual overhand shuffle. No faros here! Patrick provides tips on how to memorize this shuffle. After reading these tips, the shuffle was permanently stuck in my head and virtually impossible to forget. The next section explains the Si Stebbins stack and then tells you how to get from new deck order to Si Stebbins to Redford Stack. The next section teaches how to get into Si Stebbins from a genuinely shuffled deck and then from Si Stebbins into Redford Stack. The next section teaches two tricks you can perform to hide the fact that the deck is being stacked with the method mentioned previously. The first trick is one that many mentalists already perform, so it is great that it can be used to put the deck into stack. This is followed by a two phase effect which is a demonstration of clocking cards. The first phase is impressive, but the second phase is down right impossible.

Right off the bat, I'd like to point out that while you do technically get into Redford Stack from a shuffled deck, you are actually getting into Stebbins and THEN into Redford. You don't go directly into Redford stack. This isn't a huge issue though since it is so simple to get into Redford Stack from Stebbins. The biggest plus with this stack is how easy it is to get into.

Stack Transformations:
This section teaches how to go from Redford stack into various other stacks which are useful. It teaches how to get into Si Stebbins, alternating red/black order (not Stebbins), Shocked order, Stebbins Stay stack, Redford Stay Stack, and New Deck Order.

Each of these sections includes a photo of the stack at the end which is a nice reference. I should mention, many of these stack transformations don't require faros, but some require multiple perfect faros. In fact, the book teaches four different methods of getting into New Deck order. Some with faros and some without faros. Each version has its pros and cons.

Tools for the Arranged Stack:
This section teaches some necessary techniques when working with stacks. It teaches how to secretly count to card positions, false shuffles, a faro subtlety which makes the shuffle seem fair to a layman, removing and replacing cards, keeping the stack hidden, and ends with a discussion on having a "Super Card" in the deck.

I would like to mention the false shuffles aren't taught in this section but rather discussed as a necessary tool. They are taught later in the book.

Rapid Memorization:
This section teaches how to memorize the deck in the quickest way possible. Luckily, Patrick has done all of the hard work on this one.

He uses a peg system to aid in memory and provides all the images which should make it very simple to memorize.

Quasi-Memorized Deck Techniques:
This section teaches three effects which can be performed as a memory demonstration. Each effect is used to set the deck up from genuinely shuffled directly into the Redford Stack.

The first effect actually allows you to stack the deck in new deck order. Then you must use the technique taught previously to set the deck from new deck order into Redford stack (requires faros.) This is an effect of knowing which cards two people hold. The second effect involves 4 spectator receiving a packet of cards, selecting a card, and mixing their card into their packet. You then eliminate all the cards in their packet except for the card they hold. This effect goes from a shuffled deck directly into the Redford Stack. The last effect is a combination of the first two and ends in New Deck Order which can then be shuffled into Redford Stack.

Card Locations:
This sections tells what cards can be spelt to in the Redford Stack without any adjustments (17 cards in all) followed by 9 cards which have locations in the deck that can be revealed easily.

Not much to say about this section. It's pretty impressive how many cards can be located in an impressive way with no work.

Gambling Demonstrations:
This section teaches many gambling effects including how to get any hand called for into the dealer's hand. Quite literally, any hand called can be dealt into the dealer's hand. Someone can name ANY pair value and you can deal it. Any other hand that is named can be dealt with very little tweaking of the deck. Generally it's a cut and a second deal or a cut and moving one card secretly. It's all very simple. It's amazing how many different hands can be dealt from this stack. Then an effect called "Progressive Poker" is taught which deals each player a progressively stronger hand and ends with the performer having a full house. This requires a cut, a couple of cards being moved, and a cull. But it is worth the effort. Next is a blackjack demonstration which can be dealt directly from the Redford stack. The spectator has 4 chances to win to the performer's one chance. The spectator even shuffles the cards himself. This can be followed directly by ANOTHER game of blackjack where the dealer wins yet again. Next this section teaches an effect where cards are dealt to five players and the performer deals his partner a non-flashy winning hands (pair of aces.) This is immediately repeated. This time, the partner wins with a royal flush. This demonstration only requires shifting 2 cards before performing. This is done very casually with culls. Next is a bridge/rummy demonstration ending with all four hands receiving all cards of a suit in order. This is accomplished easily with a shuffle.

Patrick teaches how to put the stack back into order after each of these effects.

Faro Effects:
This section teaches effects using faro shuffles. The first effect here is one where two black kings trap a selected card after two faro shuffles. They then find two more selected cards with another shuffle. The next effect teaches how to do a poker deal directly after the effect with the kings which ends with the spectator having a straight flush and the performer with a royal flush in spades. This is set up simply by giving the deck one more faro after the previous effect. Then an effect is taught where the four aces are turned face up in four spread out positions in the deck. The deck is shuffled and the two red aces come together at one end of the spread and the two black aces come together at the other end. The deck is shuffled again and the four aces all come together. The deck is shuffled one last time and three selections are trapped between the aces. In the next effect, two aces are turned face up and when two shuffles are performed, the aces have trapped the two selections between them. The effect is immediately repeated with two new selections. This section ends with an observation on how the deck is effected by faro shuffles.

If you enjoy faroing and can do it effortlessly, then these effects are very impressive. I especially love the combination of the kings finding three selections followed by being able to perform a powerful poker demonstration.

Generic Memorized Deck Work:
This section includes effects which can be done with any memorized deck. In the first effect, any card named is magically pushed up through the cards and because of the force, ends up bent on top of the deck. In the next effect, any card can be named and then pushed through a table only to land in a spectator's hand. The next effect allows you to dribble the cards on the table and pull out any card named by the spectator. The next effect is called Twain and involves two spectators selecting a card from their half of the deck, trading it with the other person, losing the card in their packet. The perform then divines the first spectator's card and proceeds to tell the second spectator the card they are thinking of, the location of the card in their half, and what two cards they placed the card between. The last section is where Patrick teaches his version of tossed out deck using a regular deck of cards. He covers a lot of various ideas in this.

Twain is the stand out of this section in my mind. It seems impossible and is a great reveal with little effort on the performer's part.

More Redford Stack Tricks:
This section begins with an effect called O.F.M. Essentially, the deck is split into 10 piles. The volunteer just thinks of any card from one of the piles. The performer reassembles the deck, memorizes it, asks for the name of their card, and tells them the position of their card. The deck is divided again into ten piles and the volunteer removes a card from any pile, remembers it, and puts it in any other pile. The spectator never says a word and yet the performer reveals it's position in the deck AND is able to name the card before it is revealed. The next effect is a version of Twain but this one ends with the cards covertly in suited order to be used how you wish. The next section tells how to spell to any card named from the deck. It works great following the effect mentioned previously. This section ends with "Temporarily Out of Order" which is a full 15 minute magic routine filled with incredible moments.

O.F.M. is a really great effect which truly seems impossible. The stand out of this section is easily Temporarily Out of Order. I will speak more on this later, but it is a KILLER combination where each phase sets up for the next one and it gets more and more impossible. I love this.

This section teaches three stories than can be told with the Redford stack. One of these requires 6 faros to set up. One requires and exchange of two cards and a faro. And one requires no changes whatsoever. The first story is supposedly family friendly, the second story is reminiscent of Sam the Bellhop, the third story is X-Rated and full of innuendos.

If you’re interested in story decks, all of these are valid.

The section talks about a combination of methods which can be added to the deck which would make it even more powerful.

Utilities:
This section teaches two false shuffles and five false cuts.

Most of these are brand new cuts and shuffles. They are all very deceptive and work very well with the material in the book.

Two Deck Switches and a Force:
As the title suggests, this section teaches two deck switches and a force.

One of the deck switches is used in the context of a routine (which uses the force) and it is brilliant. It may very well be the best deck switch I've ever seen. It is PERFECT to use in conjunction with the stack work to secretly go from a genuinely shuffled deck into the Redford Stack without anyone being the wiser.

Stacking into Effects by Others:
This section teaches how to go from Redford Stack into the following effects: 26! by Caleb Wiles, Candy by Chris Mayhew, A Pale Blue by Ben Blau, Chaos-Mandelbrot's Revenge by Pit Hartling, and Ultimate Hold 'Em by Jack Carpenter.

This section does not teach any of these effects since they are not Patrick's to teach. But each one tells where to learn the effect. I assume these are all listed because Patrick uses them often in his set.

That is what is all in the book! Now here are my thoughts:

I really genuinely love this book. I believe this is one of the best books on mem deck work to every come out. Patrick's stack is without a doubt the most versatile. It's amazing that so many incredible effects can be performed with a deck which looks nice and mixed with no patterns to be spotted. One of the best things about this deck is how easy it is to get into and also how easy it is to go from Redford Stack into the various other stacks. The "Temporarily Out of Order" routine is worth the price of the book in my mind. It is a beautiful flow of effects which is very effective. As a matter of fact, I will be performing this routine along with O.F.M. and the two effects to get into stack very shortly as a 30 minute performance. This will allow me to borrow a deck, have it thoroughly shuffled, and then perform killer magic ending with the deck sorted by all the suits in numerical order. The main change I'm making is in the book, Patrick demonstrates the final phase as some sort of the power of the human mind where the spectator deals all the cards out and they do the magic. Instead of this, I am going to present it as a memory and gambling demonstration by memorizing the cards and then "stacking" the deck with shuffles and cuts. I believe bringing this realism into the ending will get far greater reactions. That said, let me get into some thoughts on the book itself. Because it is packed with so many effects and techniques, most of the effects taught have no routine with them. They tell the effect, they teach the method, and that's it. In some cases, the book simply tells how to set up for the effect and that's it. Some people may not like this, but I actually prefer it as it allows me to put on my thinking cap to come up with presentations for the effects. Now I'd like to publicly admit: I've never memorized a deck. I've always wanted to use a memorized deck but never had the motivation. This book gave me the motivation. As a matter of fact, it's been three days of studying, and I pretty much have the deck down pat. This is a great place to be, and I know I'll only get better and better with practice. Also! This book includes a link to videos of Patrick teaching some of the moves and effects as well as bonus effects which AREN'T in the book. There's also a Facebook group for owners of the book and people are already coming up with great ideas and finding new things within the stack that even Patrick didn't discover.

Now to compare with Memorandum by Woody Aragon. I know MANY people have been wanting a comparison between this and Memorandum. While I won't be reviewing Memorandum, I will say this: Having read both, I committed the Redford Stack to memory. I found The Redford Stack to have much better effects than Woody's. Woody's has some gambling demonstrations built in, but they pale in comparison to Redford's. Perhaps the biggest reason I decided to go with the Redford Stack is because the Redford Stack is MUCH easier to get into than Woody's. I'm not great with faros. I can do them if I absolutely have to, but generally, I perform with bicycle brand cards, and I struggle to faro them consistently. Woody's requires quite a few faros to get into. Redford's can be gotten into with only two faros and some displacements. Or, it can be gotten into via the method discusses from a shuffled deck. Another downside to Woody's is that Woody's deck does not appear shuffled. As a matter of fact, Woody explicitly states you mustn't let the spectator see cards number 2-14! This is crazy to me! A large part of a good memorized deck is it appearing to be thoroughly shuffled. Woody says his doesn't appear shuffled because you must have comprise and if you want to do a bunch of routines, then the deck can't look as random. Clearly, Patrick has found a way to do both. His deck looks very well shuffled and yet a multitude of effects can be performed from it with very little effort.

All in all, I say Temporarily Out of Order wins HANDS DOWN in comparison to Woody's Memorandum stack.

If these effects mentioned interest you, I suggest you look up Patrick Redford's youtube channel. He is posting one video a week of performances from the book.

I'll try my best to answer any questions you may have,

 Message: Posted by: Karl M (May 26, 2017 04:20PM)
Http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=641391&forum=218

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=640757&forum=218
 Message: Posted by: MadisonH (May 26, 2017 04:27PM)
Are you suggesting I should have posted this on TWO forums instead of a new one combining both? I think this dictates a new forum because it is a full review and comparing both works.

 Message: Posted by: Drtriage (May 26, 2017 04:44PM)
 Message: Posted by: ash2arani (May 26, 2017 04:45PM)
Great job Madison on the review. I have both and I am still not done with both.

I have been using Mnemonica for years now but I am ready to make the jump to the Redford stack.

What separates mem deck orders are the effects built into them. Otherwise, just shuffle a deck and memorize the random order. Or even better, take BCS by Osterlind and memorize it and you will have what I feel is arguably the moat random looking stacked deck.

The fact that you can easily move between Si Stebbins and Redford stack makes this a winner. And the fact that you can easily to get into many setups including 26! by Caleb Wiles, Chaos by Pit Hartling, and Ultimate Hold em by Jack Carpenter seals the deal for me (I love all 3 effects).

But Woody's work is still inspiring and I am yet to finish his book. His stack is great but I believe Redford trumps it and for me, it is better than my dear Mnemonica. But all this is subjective. If you feel mem deck you are using or want to use offers built-in effects that you are comfortable with, then by all means, stick to it.

I happen to join Maddy's view and believe the Redford Stack to be one of the best out there.

And the book is AMAZING in both quality of production and content :)
 Message: Posted by: Doomo (May 26, 2017 04:51PM)
Well... once again I am forced to say. I RARELY say buy something. Memorized deck work is undeniably difficult. Redford here has made it easier than just about anyone. And his effects are just lovely. Look. If this kind of thing is at all of interest... Just buy the ***ed book!

Tony
 Message: Posted by: Dave the Knave (May 26, 2017 05:29PM)
Thanks for the outstanding review, Madison. What are the dimensions of the book, if you don't mind, and your opinion of the quality of the paper?

Dave
 Message: Posted by: Daren (May 27, 2017 04:40AM)
This is a fantastic book, out the two this wins in my opinion!! Brilliant
 Message: Posted by: geordiediver (May 27, 2017 04:51AM)
Great review thanks, very detailed and well worth a new thread. :-)
 Message: Posted by: baobow (May 27, 2017 05:26AM)
Just curious, did you do memorised deck work prior to reading these Patrick's and Woody's book?

It is not usually common for someone to switch from one memorised stack to another one. (though people have done it). SO for you to say you are now using the redford stack would usually mean that you didn't memorise a stack prior.

Thanks

Baobow
 Message: Posted by: MadisonH (May 27, 2017 09:33AM)
Thank you all for the kind words about the review! I greatly appreciate it :)

[quote]On May 27, 2017, baobow wrote:
Just curious, did you do memorised deck work prior to reading these Patrick's and Woody's book?

It is not usually common for someone to switch from one memorised stack to another one. (though people have done it). SO for you to say you are now using the redford stack would usually mean that you didn't memorise a stack prior.

Thanks

Baobow [/quote]

Correct, I had never taken the one to commit a stack to memory until this one. I never thought the routines were that valuable until this release.

 Message: Posted by: Tim Cavendish (May 27, 2017 06:06PM)
Thanks to Madison for this writeup.

It's certainly a useful perspective for a newcomer to memdecks.

Nevertheless I'm sure we'll still be interested in further reviews of both books from readers with more extensive experience in memdeck work.

There's a lot to chew on.
 Message: Posted by: korttihai_82 (May 27, 2017 06:14PM)
[quote]On May 26, 2017, ash2arani wrote:

The fact that you can easily move between Si Stebbins and Redford stack makes this a winner.[/quote]

Why in the world would anyone using memdeck wanna do that?!?!? If you know your memdeck you don't need Si Stebbins unless you do that one particular routine by Fisher or Tamariz or perhpas by Woody??? But memdeck variations are so much stronger than those??? Oh, and btw you can do that with mnemonica and memorandum as well...

[quote]On May 26, 2017, ash2arani wrote:
And the fact that you can easily to get into many setups including 26! by Caleb Wiles, Chaos by Pit Hartling, and Ultimate Hold em by Jack Carpenter seals the deal for me (I love all 3 effects). [/quote]

But you can get into those setups from Mnemonica and memorandum as well? So I am still wondering what makes Redford stack different?

J-M
 Message: Posted by: MadisonH (May 27, 2017 07:01PM)
Hi JM,

One may want to go from mem stack into Si Stebbins go some routines not utilizing a memorized stack. For instance, many of Patrick's effects in his book use a combination of both stacks to achieve different results he also has effects which go from Redford Stack into Si Stebbins into Stay Stack and back into Stebbins. This combination of stacks always for a multitude of effects that can't be achieved just with using any one of these stacks by itself.

As for your second question, I guess what makes this different is how quickly and easily you and get from one to other. It takes a simple over hand shuffle to get in and out. But again, the Redford Stack has a multitude of advantages over other memorized decks.

However, if you prefer any of the other stacks, the just use those and don't buy this. Or, buy this, read it, and see if it changes your mind. If not, you still have some good effects you ca do with any other stack.

No one is trying to persuade anyone to give up their stack if they have it, use it, and love it. I just feel this one has many advantages other stacks don't offer.

Plus Patrick hinted at having two other books on this stack for the future.

 Message: Posted by: Pasteboard Alchemist (May 27, 2017 09:51PM)
I'll have to echo ash2arani's post. I'm a long time (since it was released in English) Mnemonica stack aficionado who has also been using Woody's "old" stack (for many years since the release of Cosas Mías, which is where the bulk of the material/concepts in Memorandum come from) and would start in Woody's and use Carta de Seguridad to head to Mnemonica. And, long story short: I've already started using the Redford stack as my go-to.

First off, let me say: I consider both Memorandum and Temporarily Out of Order "must buy"s. Even with a large portion of Memorandum not being a surprise to me (having long since read all of Cosas Mías) the changes, additions, and new concepts made the book [i]more[/i] than worth it. For someone not familiar with that body of work before Memorandum's release? Even more so.

The Redford stack book, though, was purchased on a whim. I didn't expect to be, well... what it is. And what "it is" is something that checks off a good amount of my "stack wish list" that I haven't had before. These aspects are all purely subjective/personal, but they're big for me--big enough to warrant me switching the stack I leave the house with. This isn't something that came lightly, as I've dedicated a lot of time to many Mnemonica-specific handlings/routines. The nature of the Redford stack, though, makes some of those things easier to the point that I had to give it a shot... and I really found myself enjoying using it.

One of the aspect of the Redford stack that makes it easier to do some of my pet and "wish list" things--and I never thought I'd say this--is that its generated from Si Stebbins. I get where J-M is coming from with his "What?!?!?" comment because, as a stack worker, I roll my eyes as the thought of Stebbins and the like. When the book arrived and I saw those words, my immediate reaction was not a good one. But then I read on. It's [i]generated[/i] from Stebbins, but is a full, random memdeck that you have to commit to memory as you would with Mnemonica/Aronson/etc. There's no formulaic approach like Stebbins or BCS. It just happens that, in much the same way that Mnemonica has a four out faro stay stack as a waypoint, Redford has Stebbins as a waypoint.

Why did this having Stebbins as a waypoint turn out to be a good thing for me, then, and lend the Redford stack to ticking off some of my "I wish my stack could..." list? The Chinese Shuffle technique to get into Stebbins is easy as heck, and can be done in plain sight in an effect or two (or simply done sans effect in, for me, ~1:15). Yes, I've got a handful of ways to stack from a shuffled deck with Mnemonica (or any stack), but I find the Chinese Shuffle easier/faster/superior [i]personally[/i]. From a new deck (I know many aren't presented with fresh decks often, but I am... so, again, from my personal viewpoint) Stebbins is easier to shuffle into. I'll take two faros over four faros. But this gets it into Stebbins. How much work to get it from there to Redford? 15 seconds or less. And you don't ever have to even glance at the deck when you do so.

Also going from Redford back to Stebbins is equally as fast as the reverse (again, 15 seconds or less without even having to look at the deck during the process.) This only means something for me for one, single thing: I can now deal out the four suits in order (well, one in order and three that require a cut, but if you're can't figure out how to deal them in a way that makes it easy to turn over the packet while simultaneously performing said cut, I don't know what to tell you...) My usual finisher is Tamariz's routine that ends with the same, so I like being able to get to that situation more easily/quickly (and be in a situation that would even allow me to let a spectator deal it.)

As a fan of the Gilbreath principle, being able to quickly get into a non-sequence red/black alternating order for the whole deck. This can be done with the Redford stack in less than 5 seconds (and I'm not talking about going to Stebbins--that'd be an glaringly obvious sequential order). I have a pet way of getting [i]most[/i] of Mnemonica to red/black alternating quickly, but it takes more effort if I want the full deck. Again, the Redford stack simply makes it much easier.

There's a couple things I wish the Redford stack could do better, don't get me wrong. But, for what I do, it's benefits are worth the trade-off. Will I still use Mnemonica and Memorandum (old version)? Yes. But when I leave the house with only a single deck (which is most of the time) or when someone hands me a shuffled deck and I want to do stack work? It'll be Redford.

That's my take--and it's wholly subjective. What makes something good for me may not make it good for someone else (that's why they're called opinions.) But, I'm really enjoying this stack.
 Message: Posted by: Karl M (May 28, 2017 03:24AM)
[quote]On May 26, 2017, MadisonH wrote:
Are you suggesting I should have posted this on TWO forums instead of a new one combining both? I think this dictates a new forum because it is a full review and comparing both works.

Hi mate no it was just as a references to the original threads for people to see them to,I have orderd Patrick book noew because of what you said about it I already use my own stack what is called the mathers stack and I am defanatly happy with it and I want to suss some stuff out from this book now because of what you said
 Message: Posted by: tincture (May 28, 2017 05:38PM)
[quote]On May 26, 2017, Dave the Knave wrote:
Thanks for the outstanding review, Madison. What are the dimensions of the book, if you don't mind, and your opinion of the quality of the paper?

Dave [/quote]

It's an 8.5 X 11 book on a glossy paper stock. The book is heavy and beautiful! I have some of Patrick's other releases but this really stands out amongst them!

Tim
 Message: Posted by: Dave the Knave (May 28, 2017 06:37PM)
[quote]On May 28, 2017, tincture wrote:
[quote]On May 26, 2017, Dave the Knave wrote:
Thanks for the outstanding review, Madison. What are the dimensions of the book, if you don't mind, and your opinion of the quality of the paper?

Dave [/quote]

It's an 8.5 X 11 book on a glossy paper stock. The book is heavy and beautiful! I have some of Patrick's other releases but this really stands out amongst them!

Tim [/quote]

Thank you, Tim!
 Message: Posted by: Patrick Redford (May 28, 2017 08:00PM)
Wow! I'm speechless.. Thank you so much for that amazing review. Sounds like the Redford stack might actually be pretty good!

To echo what Tincture posted about the book dimensions etc...

It is indeed an 8.5 by 11 book on a 80 lbs glossy paper stock. The book is hardcover with a rubberised casewrap. It runs 264 pages.
 Message: Posted by: Dave the Knave (May 28, 2017 08:33PM)
[quote]On May 28, 2017, Patrick Redford wrote:
Wow! I'm speechless.. Thank you so much for that amazing review. Sounds like the Redford stack might actually be pretty good!

To echo what Tincture posted about the book dimensions etc...

It is indeed an 8.5 by 11 book on a 80 lbs glossy paper stock. The book is hardcover with a rubberised casewrap. It runs 264 pages. [/quote]

You're applying some serious torque to my arm...
 Message: Posted by: Nicolino (May 29, 2017 02:36AM)
[quote]On May 28, 2017, Dave the Knave wrote::
You're applying some serious torque to my arm... [/quote]
And to my wallet.
 Message: Posted by: tincture (May 31, 2017 03:19PM)
Worth it!
 Message: Posted by: Dave the Knave (May 31, 2017 06:20PM)
It's on its way...
 Message: Posted by: mentalboy (May 31, 2017 07:57PM)
While people debate the relative merits of these two books (I have them on order and I can't wait to get my hands on them both), I have been enjoying Pit Hartling's latest opus, "In Order to Amaze." Pit has a way of working with effects to the point that he appears to squeeze every bit of entertainment value inherent in the premise. His presentations are honed over many, many actual performances. What's more, he has given a considerable amount of thought to every aspect of the effect and provides the reader with a number of variations and alternatives.

To top it all off, the make-up of this book is gorgeous. Much thought has been given to the layout, typeface, end papers, stunning full-color illustrations, even the choice of paper. It's a beautiful book, in the same lofty category as Andi Gladwin's stunning "Jack Parker's 52 Memories." And, just like the case with Andi's book, the material truly deserves this royal treatment.
 Message: Posted by: Dave the Knave (Jun 1, 2017 09:36AM)
I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of Pit Hartling's book.
 Message: Posted by: tincture (Jun 6, 2017 03:20PM)
Did you get it yet?
 Message: Posted by: Magic-Daniel (Jun 11, 2017 01:50AM)
Is there a version of ACAAN in Patrick's new book?
 Message: Posted by: Patrick Redford (Jun 12, 2017 05:27PM)
Hi Magic-Daniel. I have published so many different versions of ACAAN but there isn't one in this book. That said there are things that might feel that way to you that are just as interesting. O.F.M. is one of my favorites (for instance) where a participant looks at and looks at any card in the pack, names it and you tell them the position. Then as a second phase this is repeated, but this time they don't tell you the card. You not only are able to tell them what card t hey thought of but also the position it is from the top. During this entire process the deck is being cut into multiple piles and mixed and reassembled in a different order. It's an interesting effect methodologically and devastating to both laymen and those magicians who aren't "in the know."
 Message: Posted by: dr_catman (Jul 23, 2017 11:46PM)
Just started going through this gem last night! So much to digest but it's written really well and makes it easy to understand and appreciate. Thanks so much for releasing this Patrick. Makes me now want to order Applesauce! I know doing it the wrong way around lol
 Message: Posted by: Waters. (Oct 28, 2017 06:37AM)
Patrick, this looks so, so good. I think the biggest challenge for me would be restraint. (Read: resisting doing all that can be done with the stack). This is beautiful work.
 Message: Posted by: DrBrewhaha (Jul 11, 2018 09:21PM)
Really hoping the next book comes out soon.
 Message: Posted by: Churken2 (Jul 12, 2018 05:49PM)
Both books are amazing. I think we all win by studying both. Having seen both Redford and Aragon perform with their memorized stacks, I can tell you that they are both fantastic. Just watching them is a clinic.

I have been using Aronson Stack for over 20 years and have not quite committed to learning a new stack. If I had to choose one book to study for the rest of my life, it would be Mnemonica by Tamariz.

I find T.O.O. to be on the same level as Mnemonica with the variety of effects. I have lightly memorized Redford Stack and will really get it down over the next few months as I work with the principles. Who knows, maybe it will ultimately replace Aronson.

Memorandum also has a ton of insight, but is too gambling heavy for my work.

I am anxiously awaiting volume 2 of both books. I understand Redford actually has at least two more books on the way.
 Message: Posted by: Poof-Daddy (Oct 25, 2018 10:47PM)
[quote]On May 26, 2017, ash2arani wrote:
The fact that you can easily move between Si Stebbins and Redford stack makes this a winner. And the fact that you can easily to get into many setups including 26! by Caleb Wiles, Chaos by Pit Hartling, and Ultimate Hold em by Jack Carpenter seals the deal for me (I love all 3 effects).
[/quote]
I recently purchased T.O.O. used (should be here soon) and I have long been wanting to grab Jack Carpenter's "Ultimate Hold 'em". Does the book teach how to set up for this effect? or, does the Hold 'em effect tell you how to set up from T.O.O.? I am guessing you still need to buy both the book and the Carpenter effect (or is it included in the book with Mr Carpenter's permission)?

Thanks.
 Message: Posted by: Shikina (Nov 6, 2018 10:05AM)
[quote]On Oct 25, 2018, Poof-Daddy wrote:
I recently purchased T.O.O. used (should be here soon) and I have long been wanting to grab Jack Carpenter's "Ultimate Hold 'em". Does the book teach how to set up for this effect? or, does the Hold 'em effect tell you how to set up from T.O.O.? I am guessing you still need to buy both the book and the Carpenter effect (or is it included in the book with Mr Carpenter's permission)?
[/quote]

You'll still need to acquire the Ultimate Hold 'em book separately, but it's worth it.
 Message: Posted by: Poof-Daddy (Nov 6, 2018 07:26PM)
Thanks for the answer. I did get, and read, and really love, the book. I also will be getting the Carpenter Routine now.
 Message: Posted by: teenagelabotomy42 (Apr 18, 2019 11:03PM)
I really like Woody, but for me Memorandum had so many poker tricks and I just find those boring.
 Message: Posted by: niva (Apr 25, 2019 03:09AM)
Am I the only crazy one trying to learn all three? I got Mnemonica and Redford pretty much down.
 Message: Posted by: Patrick Redford (May 20, 2019 02:36PM)
Not crazy at all. It's a fun goal!
 Message: Posted by: Pierre Cardinlemon (Jun 13, 2019 08:11AM)
I've been using Memorandum for about one year now, but I perform usually stack-independent tricks.

Now I'm reading T.O.O. and I love its possibilities! I've already memorized the stack, although I cannot use it fluently enough yet, I still need a lot of practice. But fortunately, it seems that I don't confuse the two stacks.

For me, the most useful property of Memorandum is that it is very easy to separate a shuffled deck into the lower and upper halves of the stack. This is because it is very unbalanced: for almost half of the cards I don't have to think about stack positions at all, but I know immediately the proper half. This enables creating a divided or alternating deck during a performance almost as fast as using red-black separation.

So each stack has its advantages. Furthermore, maybe using two decks with two different stacks also has some applications...
 Message: Posted by: hbenod (Jun 14, 2019 09:04AM)
A question to Pierre Cardinlemon:

I have started to use Memorandum. Do you use the Siamese stack? I have not seen any of these effects performed but it carries a high approval mention by Max Maven. What's you're take?

Thanks,

hbenod
 Message: Posted by: niva (Jun 14, 2019 10:03AM)
Hi Hbenod,

You may want to head over to the Memorandum group on Facebook and get some feedback over there.