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Topic: Air crimp / crimpless crimp?
Message: Posted by: SimonCard (Aug 17, 2017 10:43AM)
Hi yall:

Good morning.
I watched Dai Vernon revelation DVDs a few weeks ago and he talked an idea that if you cut the deck and look at the card you cut to and put the packet back on top and cut again, there is high probability that you will cut at the same card. I found it interesting that if I press the deck down to push the air out between cards, then cut the bottom half to top. Now there is a high chance I can cut to the same card if I aim at the center of the deck for the final cut.
It's not 100% surfire, but I'm still curious if this has been used in either gambling world or magic world? If so, are there any tips that can increase the chance to cut back to the same card.
Thanks a lot. I did a short video on this.

https://youtu.be/zdXukIWGlwA
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Aug 17, 2017 12:22PM)
This technique works fairly well with a brand new deck. As the deck become used, develops slight waves or bends, gets a little sticky, etc. the certainty of the technique gets reduced to the point where it becomes nonexistent. Probably better suited to some form of magic trick or demo.

I donít see any practical value for this ploy from a gambling perspective. It is more of an oddity in my opinion and perhaps something to play with out of curiosity.

Usually more certainly is required for gambling demos and definitely for situations under fire.
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (Aug 17, 2017 01:03PM)
If this is your play, why wouldn't you just put a crimp in a card?
Not sure I see the value in pursuing this line of thinking even for magic, and definitely not for gambling.

Even the tiniest crimp tends to guarantee 100% accuracy on the subsequent cut, giving up that kind of a sure thing seems counter-intuitive to the intent.
Message: Posted by: SimonCard (Aug 17, 2017 01:44PM)
Thank you both Cagliostro and Artie for the comments. I'm for sure not pursuing this unreliable method. I just thought it is interesting and was curious how other people think of this and if other people pursued this method before. When a regular crimp gradually loses its shape and strength I would get nervous and redo the work, not to mention this unreliable idea.
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (Aug 17, 2017 03:54PM)
What that line of thinking (air crimp or crimpless crimp) does do though, is highlight just how [i]little needs to happen[/i] to any given card (or pair of cards) in a deck in order for those cards to "behave" completely differently from the remainder of the cards in the deck ... if that makes sense?

Worth noting just in general terms, as that specific characteristic can no doubt have other applications that might lend one an advantage.
Message: Posted by: Jerry (Aug 18, 2017 09:33AM)
Martin Nash "Infinity Beyond", discusses putting a crimp into the cards while handling them.
I am sure there are others.


SShhh...

That's underground stuff I am revealing!
Message: Posted by: SimonCard (Aug 18, 2017 09:44AM)
@ Artie. That is true. So if any other card gets warped even slightly, it will even get the "air crimp" even worse and totally useless.

@ Jerry, I'm a big fan of crimps. I've used infinity for some time now and it's great. I also found a one-handed crimping technique from Forte's book. It was described as a peeking technique. I found it hard for me peek in that manner, but it can be a quite good crimping method.

https://youtu.be/tUaFQBTlK9w
Message: Posted by: TH10111 (Aug 19, 2017 05:56AM)
This air crimp is quite a cool phenomenon.
It's certainly worth being aware of, and I could see it being advantageous in certain situations. For example, if the player to your left overhand shuffles and finishes with a cut. In this case the player may be prone to flashing the bottom card in your direction. And since he finishes his shuffle with a cut, this principle could be used when he passes the deck to the right, and you cut at the air crimp in order to kill the last card.
I know it's a very specific situation, but I still think it's worth being aware of the possibility.
Message: Posted by: SimonCard (Aug 19, 2017 10:53AM)
Interesting idea. but still this is not reliable. Even though you hit the right spot, isn't the advantage that killing one card produces too small?
Message: Posted by: TH10111 (Aug 19, 2017 11:17AM)
Yea, you obviously can't rely on this to win a game, but if given the opportunity then why not take it!
Message: Posted by: tommy (Aug 19, 2017 08:09PM)
It is an interesting thing and one might use it as a maker after the cut: the top half might be made to slide a little giving a jog maybe.
Message: Posted by: luvisi (Aug 21, 2017 12:12AM)
[quote]On Aug 18, 2017, SimonCard wrote:
I also found a one-handed crimping technique from Forte's book. It was described as a peeking technique. I found it hard for me peek in that manner, but it can be a quite good crimping method.

https://youtu.be/tUaFQBTlK9w [/quote]

Which peek/crimp technique are you using in that video? Or is the crimp already in before the video starts?

Andru
Message: Posted by: SimonCard (Aug 21, 2017 10:30AM)
@ luvisi

It's on page 138 in "Poker Protection Series" by Steve Forte, and there were no crimps on any card beforehand.
Message: Posted by: luvisi (Aug 21, 2017 11:53PM)
Your execution is flawless. It flew by me in over a dozen viewings, and even knowing what you're doing, and when, I still can't see a thing.

Thank you so much for sharing!

Andru
Message: Posted by: SimonCard (Aug 22, 2017 09:50AM)
HI Audru.
Thanks for the encouragement. Glad that you also have the book; it's very informative book.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Aug 22, 2017 12:21PM)
Nicely done. You are going to have to stop fooling me like this. It is embarrassing.

Does anyone refer to you as "Simon Card Forte?" :cool:

I notice that you have a few videos on YouTube, one of which is the finger stop shown here combined with the table hop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVLCOCwzMJE

I assume it is you because of the red shirt which is a "tell." I'll be on the lookout for someone with that shirt the next time I play poker. :)

You do the finger stop and hop nicely. It certainly is very fast.

Nice work.
Message: Posted by: SimonCard (Aug 22, 2017 02:17PM)
@Cagliostro.

Thanks very much. The encouragement from you means a lot to me.
and I admit I'm a Forte fan.
Message: Posted by: markhitton (Feb 14, 2019 03:42AM)
[quote]On Aug 21, 2017, SimonCard wrote:
@ luvisi

It's on page 138 in "Poker Protection Series" by Steve Forte, and there were no crimps on any card beforehand. [/quote]


i do not find it. pls could you tell me the name I do not find it :spoon:
Message: Posted by: Mr. Bones (Feb 14, 2019 09:36AM)
It's right there on page #138 ... there's even a picture!
Message: Posted by: Jerry (Feb 15, 2019 11:35PM)
Mark, are you looking at "CASINO GAME PROTECTION"?
If so, wrong book.