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Topic: A question about Mnemonicosis
Message: Posted by: James F (Aug 30, 2017 09:56AM)
So I've seen two videos recently of people performing Mnemonicosis and they both did something that I don't understand. The first was David Blaine on Jimmy Fallon and the second was Chris Ramsay in his recent video. I'll put links below. In both they asked for a card to be named. On Fallon's show he chose the nine of diamonds, stack number 52, or the bottom card. He had Jimmy choose one or two, he chose two. He opened the box to find the ace of hearts at position one on the face and the nine of diamonds in position second from the face. So Blaine switched the nine of diamonds and the ace of hearts before the start of the trick. I have no idea why. Then Chris Ramsay does the exact same kind of thing in his video, once again the nine of diamonds had been switched with the Ace of hearts. The spectator chose the ace of hearts and Chris had him open the box to see his card staring at him. And again, I have no idea why these two cards were switched in the first place. I commented on Chris Ramsay's YouTube video and someone basically said "read Vernon its in there" and didn't want to tell me where. He ended up mentioning the booklet "Early Vernon." What exactly is the reason for this? Anyone know what is going on here? I feel like I should easily be able to figure out why they are doing this, but I'm drawing a blank. Thanks.

Chris Ramsay video (2:00 in): https://youtu.be/k36PbFfJY6I

David Blaine video (4:40 in): https://youtu.be/Z8Ws4PEky28
Message: Posted by: WooG (Aug 30, 2017 12:21PM)
Not to sound harsh, but I think your confusion is one of the reasons to do this. aside from the likelyhood of the card
Message: Posted by: James F (Aug 30, 2017 01:01PM)
What do you mean by that? Is it really just that the ace of hearts is more commonly named than the nine of diamonds? And what do you mean by my confusion is one of the reasons to do this?
Message: Posted by: tomd (Aug 30, 2017 01:41PM)
Likelyhood of the card. I move the four of clubs for the same reason. No one ever names that card.. unless I suspect the person I'm performing for is one of the few people really attempting to catch me out, then everything stays the same.
Message: Posted by: James F (Aug 30, 2017 02:17PM)
That thought occurred to me for a second, but it just seemed to dumb to me. I thought there was something deeper there. Where do you move the 4 of clubs to? Thanks for the reply.
Message: Posted by: WooG (Aug 30, 2017 02:55PM)
Further to the point, swapping the posistion of the two cards removes some initial indication of stacked deck( for those that know the stacks- many people become familiar when they see certain cards at the bottom of the deck and immediately know it is stack work). This however is also done as mentioned for the likelyhood .
Message: Posted by: tomd (Aug 30, 2017 04:00PM)
I've contemplated it being due to trying to throw off those in the know, however it didn't fool me for a second.. anyone familiar with that stack, will know the trick, and know that it wasn't that hard to be in that position. I suspect it being a card named way more often, is the reason.

As for me, the two of hearts is named more often, so I hope that answers your question James.
Message: Posted by: James F (Aug 30, 2017 05:30PM)
I'm assuming you just switch the four of clubs and the two of hearts, just like the bottom 2 cards.
Message: Posted by: alicauchy (Aug 31, 2017 02:58AM)
[quote]On Aug 30, 2017, James F wrote:
That thought occurred to me for a second, but it just seemed to dumb to me. I thought there was something deeper there. Where do you move the 4 of clubs to? Thanks for the reply. [/quote]

The simpler answer is that the deck was cut at the ace of hearts.
Message: Posted by: tomd (Aug 31, 2017 02:37PM)
[quote]On Aug 31, 2017, alicauchy wrote:
[quote]On Aug 30, 2017, James F wrote:
That thought occurred to me for a second, but it just seemed to dumb to me. I thought there was something deeper there. Where do you move the 4 of clubs to? Thanks for the reply. [/quote]

The simpler answer is that the deck was cut at the ace of hearts. [/quote]
In the case of David Blaine, that's not true. The nine of diamonds would not appear in the position it did if it was simply a case of cutting to the ace of hearts. It was a purposeful switch.
Message: Posted by: alicauchy (Aug 31, 2017 04:01PM)
[quote]On Aug 31, 2017, tomd wrote:
[quote]On Aug 31, 2017, alicauchy wrote:
[quote]On Aug 30, 2017, James F wrote:
That thought occurred to me for a second, but it just seemed to dumb to me. I thought there was something deeper there. Where do you move the 4 of clubs to? Thanks for the reply. [/quote]

The simpler answer is that the deck was cut at the ace of hearts. [/quote]
In the case of David Blaine, that's not true. The nine of diamonds would not appear in the position it did if it was simply a case of cutting to the ace of hearts. It was a purposeful switch. [/quote]

It is also compatible with a completely reversed order.
Message: Posted by: JBSmith1978 (Aug 31, 2017 04:10PM)
As an aside, a stack built specifically for mnemonicosis sounds like a fun project.
Message: Posted by: tomd (Aug 31, 2017 04:42PM)
[quote]On Aug 31, 2017, alicauchy wrote:
[quote]On Aug 31, 2017, tomd wrote:
[quote]On Aug 31, 2017, alicauchy wrote:
[quote]On Aug 30, 2017, James F wrote:
That thought occurred to me for a second, but it just seemed to dumb to me. I thought there was something deeper there. Where do you move the 4 of clubs to? Thanks for the reply. [/quote]

The simpler answer is that the deck was cut at the ace of hearts. [/quote]
In the case of David Blaine, that's not true. The nine of diamonds would not appear in the position it did if it was simply a case of cutting to the ace of hearts. It was a purposeful switch. [/quote]

It is also compatible with a completely reversed order. [/quote]
True, but David Blaine has been recorded on video many times using the stack, and not once has he used it in reversed order. And close observation of the linked video where he performs this, shows the ten of diamonds two cards down from the nine of diamonds.. meaning it was a simple switch, as the deck is not reversed.

working with the stack reversed impedes the majority (if not all) of the effects David uses, unless he memorised the reversed order, instead of the original intended version.
Message: Posted by: James F (Aug 31, 2017 05:28PM)
Yeah, it's definitely that the two cards are simply switched. I just assumed there was more to it than this. The thought that the ace of hearts was more commonly named did come to me, but I dismissed it, figuring I was missing some deeper intention behind it.
Message: Posted by: tomd (Aug 31, 2017 05:38PM)
James, my opinion is that you are better off switching the top two cards, rather than the bottom two. I'd rather not discuss further in a public place, but you can PM me if you'd like to understand the reasoning.
Message: Posted by: JBSmith1978 (Aug 31, 2017 06:30PM)
Honestly as long as you know the order what does it matter?
If it works it works.
As for the hypothetical "reverse order", some effects are built
on this reverse while in others the math formulas change to be
more intuitive.
Since most memstack work is stack independent, any stack will do.
Message: Posted by: durgy (Sep 5, 2017 11:11AM)
I've just started with stack work (working with mnemonica) - can someone comment what the first trick David performed is called? Also what shuffle is that he uses throughout his routine?

Thanks in advance
Durgy
Message: Posted by: Ahlichs (Sep 15, 2017 04:16PM)
[quote]On Aug 31, 2017, JBSmith1978 wrote:
As an aside, a stack built specifically for mnemonicosis sounds like a fun project. [/quote]

... Mnemonica?
Message: Posted by: JBSmith1978 (Sep 16, 2017 12:09AM)
Umm... No.
Message: Posted by: MSaber (May 17, 2018 04:40PM)
@JBSmith1978 - I'm not sure on the name, but David does a variation of "Transportation in Three Phases" in Asi Wind's booklet “Chapter One”.
Message: Posted by: blaykp (Jul 31, 2021 10:56PM)
[quote]On Sep 15, 2017, Ahlichs wrote:
[quote]On Aug 31, 2017, JBSmith1978 wrote:
As an aside, a stack built specifically for mnemonicosis sounds like a fun project. [/quote]

... Mnemonica? [/quote]

I don’t think this is what JBSmith meant. Mnemonica isn’t built specifically for that particular trick. I think JBSmith meant a deck that had frequently named cards strategically placed in particular places within the deck.