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Topic: Dove Productions
Message: Posted by: latentimage (Apr 16, 2004 03:05PM)
I have been working with doves for several years, but have only recently been getting into body loads and steals. I have been talking with Gen Grant and watching his videos for advice, which by the way are wonderful, but Im trying to find some advice on dove productions done with no cover. If anyone here has ever seen Dimmare, I'm sure you know what I mean. If anyone has any advice, it would be greatly appriciated.
Message: Posted by: Darcy (Apr 16, 2004 03:35PM)
Your proabably looking for something called an invisible dove harness. I would not recommend one if you have just gotten into body loads as they can be dangerous for the birds if not used properly.
Message: Posted by: latentimage (Apr 16, 2004 04:53PM)
Some time ago I got an invisable harness (Tony Clark) to try out, but I never got around to using it. Are they typically used with standard pockets or as sleeve loads?
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Apr 16, 2004 04:58PM)
Yes they are used for pocket loads. Shamada has his dove on cane. As far as dove splitting, this is not in print as the more you learn about body loads will lead how to do this type of effect.

The Twin Dove Production is available for sale, 2 birds at once on a large scarf or 2 tied scarves.
Message: Posted by: Darcy (Apr 16, 2004 05:15PM)
There are several great vidoes out there that may help you figure this out exactly. I would recomend you get Tony Clark's behind the seems and it will tell you almost everything you need to know about body loads and your costume etc.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Apr 16, 2004 06:17PM)
Buy a complete dove suit.


It will solve a lot of headaches in the long run.
Message: Posted by: latentimage (Apr 16, 2004 06:50PM)
I was going to buy a full dove suit from Amos, but I have been talking with Gen Grant, and I think it will be a lot more economical for me in the long run to build my own (I'm a poor college student). I would really like to get a complete one, but I just can't afford it unless someone knows where I can get one cheaper than $850.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Apr 16, 2004 08:42PM)
You will spend that much in getting the correct pockets, jacket, and information to produce a good dove act.

I was speaking from experience. So save your money and get it all put together correctly.

Or I have $1000 of research information you can buy from me as I do not do doves anymore.
Message: Posted by: latentimage (Apr 16, 2004 09:00PM)
I found a tux with tails I can get for $250 dollars, and for 250 more dollars I can have 5 pockets with matching silks and harnesses and a tail pocket put in from Gen Grant. Is there anything else you think I would need? The suits Amos has really looks nice and if I had the money I would buy one today, but its still looking cheaper to me to go with making my own. Another factor is I can buy a little at a time instead of waiting the 6 months it would take me to come up with the $850. What kind of research information do you mean that you have? I am really trying to learn as much as I can from everyone before making any desicions. Thanks
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Apr 16, 2004 09:09PM)
Start by buying a used tux. Many of the tux shops sell suits that are out of fashion. You can even save more then.

Only get a Summer weight wool blend, they wrinkle less.

Even if you have the suit with pockets then you need to find an learn the moves. The silks alone are expensive.

A dove act is more than pulling doves out of pockets.
Message: Posted by: latentimage (Apr 16, 2004 09:21PM)
I recently got a video from General Grant, and he and his video have been helping me with the technical aspects of productions and stuff, and now I really want to get the tux and the pockts etc. and get started with those long hours in front of the mirror. About how much does a used tux run?
Message: Posted by: KSMagic2007 (Apr 16, 2004 10:15PM)
I would recommend Tony Clark's Ultra safe invisible dove harness, and also his dove video's they are great.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Apr 16, 2004 11:39PM)
It seems that KSMagic2007 also recommends Tony Clark's video 'Behind the Seems' to crate and prepare your jacket. This he straightened me out on in another string, good advice.
Message: Posted by: latentimage (Apr 17, 2004 03:52AM)
Yes I have been looking into getting that Tony Clark video. I will definitly invest in that before putting my jacket together. Thanks a lot for the advice!
Message: Posted by: KSMagic2007 (Apr 17, 2004 07:02AM)
You are welcome AL, I hope it helps.
Message: Posted by: latentimage (Apr 20, 2004 12:17AM)
Does the Tony Clark video deal with invisable harness productions? If it doesn't, can someone tell me about a video that does?
Message: Posted by: sperris (Apr 20, 2004 12:50AM)
Tony's does, I think every video shows invisible dove harnesses except like General Grant's and Amos's Videos. Most of them all are the same moves, maybe just different productions.

Message: Posted by: latentimage (Apr 20, 2004 01:32AM)
Thanks Sperris,
I have been getting a great deal of advice from General Grants video, but I also wanted to find something that dealt with invisable harness productions. As soon as I finish getting this new tux together, I beleive I will look into getting your video. :)
Message: Posted by: magic mike (Apr 20, 2004 10:25AM)
AL (dovemagic9),
Make sure the tux you buy is the right size for body loads from the breast. It should be two sizes bigger (at least) than your right size.

Beside Tony Clark, Andy Amyx and Dan Sperry, among others, teach steals with an invisible harness. If you want the birds to come out very quickly try using a pocket made from thin plastic as used in book binders. You can find them in any stationery store. You need to place one sheet on top of the other and staple them in the appropriate spots. I learned this on this forum from Dave Scribner.

Good luck,
Message: Posted by: sperris (Apr 20, 2004 12:07PM)
I use the overhead projection sheets, they work nicely. I'm in the process of marketing a new wave pocket with special material that I found that works similar that is already installed into the pocket for you. They'll be the same price as my current ones and will end up replacing them once I sell out of my current stock of standard pockets.

Message: Posted by: latentimage (Apr 21, 2004 03:27AM)
So I should make my own pockets out of plastic?
Message: Posted by: templemagic (Apr 21, 2004 04:00AM)
wmhegbli said...
"As far as dove splitting, this is not in print as the more you learn about body loads will lead how to do this type of effect"

Richard Griffin from the UK put out a couple of videos a few years ago on dove magic called A Basic Step into Dove Magic and a Further Step into Dove Magic. I managed to find these second hand recently although I have no idea as to where you would find a first hand set. He talks about the invisible harness on the second tape and included in this is the splitting the dove if anyone would like to learn it.

Hope this helps,
Message: Posted by: Dave Scribner (Apr 21, 2004 05:52AM)
Dovemagic9, many of us make our own pockets and bags but I would suggest before attempting that, you purchase some, just to get the idea of the requirements. There are many on the market. Tony Clark, Dan Sperris, and Gen Grant for example make great pockets. The plastic that is being talked about is a liner that fits inside the pocket.
Message: Posted by: latentimage (Apr 21, 2004 01:55PM)
Thanks Dave, I will take your advice and stick to the satin pockets for a while.

Temple Magic... Thanks for bringing that up...I have always wanted to learn that particular move...Does anyone know where I could get these tapes??
Message: Posted by: Dave Scribner (Apr 21, 2004 02:51PM)
Dovemagic9, you would still use the satin pockets, they're just lined with the plastic inserts.
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Apr 22, 2004 11:30PM)

I'm sure you will enjoy learning to do dove body steals. It allows you to work the stage area much more freely.

I never recommend invisible dove harnesses to some one before they have considerable experience and have worked well with the music to get the timing down. Invisible harnesses are an ideal way to break doves' feet and legs if anything goes wrong. Doves in other harnesses have their feet and legs protected during the production. You will also experience fewer "accidents" on stage. Plastic inserts help but are very hot and cut down on air available to your bird. I just don't use them. There are ways to produce the dove with no harness at all.


Message: Posted by: Dave Scribner (Apr 23, 2004 06:02AM)
Good point Bob. If I use the plastic insert, it's for a production early in the routine just for the reason of heat as you explained. I used them more when I first got started. Now I find I don't really need them.
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Feb 18, 2005 10:36PM)
On 2004-04-23 07:02, Dave Scribner wrote:
I used them more when I first got started. Now I find I don't really need them.

There you go Dave! That's my observation too. Time and experience make a lot of problems go away. Ultimately we just don't need solutions to problems that we don't have.

When James Adamson was acting as my consulting magician for the Capri theater shows, he watched the show like a hawk (great man to have on your side!) and never realized that two of the birds I produced didn't even have harnesses. (That's not for sale, yet!)

Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: James Adamson (Feb 19, 2005 04:07PM)
Hey Bob,

When are going to get your Dove Book finished?

With your history and background it should be beneficial for all Dove Workers!

Time... I know it takes time to get it the way you want it!
Message: Posted by: templemagic (Mar 12, 2005 06:49AM)

Richard Griffin has just set up http://www.gadgetmagic.com selling all of his products. I can highly recommend the videos (and they have the dove split on them) and also his invisible harnesses. They are fantastic.

Hope this helps,
Message: Posted by: Richard Moor (Mar 13, 2005 07:40AM)
I also believe that Davenports Magic sell the Richard Griffin videos.