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Topic: Gimmicked effect for Newbie
Message: Posted by: Scott Horn (Dec 19, 2017 02:24PM)
I'm looking for a gimmicked coin effect for a friend who loves magic but is NOT a magician. He is a psychologist who does a lot of work with kids of all ages and families. I've given him a D'Lite and he has fun with younger kids.

I am looking for an effect he can use with older kids and adults... Conditions:
- As self working as possible / NO sleight of hand
- Familiar props / Impromptu appearance
- Easy to carry
- As "clean" as possible in the end
- Simple reset

The first effect that comes to mind is Scotch & Soda / Gin & Tonic... (magnetic or bang ring?). Coin Unique provides a similar (if not the same) effect. These seem to fit the bill and can be carried in a small coin purse.

Is S&S / G&T / CU the way to go ?
Are there other options ?
Message: Posted by: tonsofquestions (Dec 19, 2017 02:48PM)
Does it have to be coins?

That would also be one of the first that comes to mind, or something like the $1.35 trick, but I think S&S is more versatile. The magnetic is easier to reset, but slightly less examinable, so I'd say it's up to your friend which style he'd rather use.
John Murray's Mark (http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/3688) is also similar in function, with a built-in reset and a tad more examinable (without a switch), though I does require one false transfer.
A folding coin also comes to mind, but a very different type of effect (in bottle, bite, etc).

Those two are probably the easiest/have the most options for performances. If you go to non-coin stuff, I'd say one of the pen-through-bill gimmicks would be pretty good and reusable. I gave a friend Ignition (http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/2685) as a gift last year, which is similar, but presents nicely/a little differently.

Hope that helps!
Message: Posted by: Scott Horn (Dec 19, 2017 05:22PM)
No... doesn't have to be coins. It has to be Zero sleight of hand.. Even Pen Through is too much for him. This is a gift, so Im trying to not engage him in the selection
Message: Posted by: Wravyn (Dec 19, 2017 06:33PM)
Nickels to dimes. Only problem is having to reset it
Devils Hank. Can use to make things vanish or appear
Out To Lunch. Is automatic reset depending on how it used
Message: Posted by: funsway (Dec 19, 2017 07:50PM)
Teach him the "Ten Count." It can be done with any two small objects - erasers, coins, bottle caps - and illustrated misdirection over trickery.
Technically, a sleight is involved but so easy to master. As a psychologist he should love the fact that even those knowing the secret
cannot resist looking in the wrong place.

If you have to buy something, a set of Color Changing chips will work. Fun and very little skill - and he can't be talked into repeating ;)

for example "Poker Chip Polka" - $10 from Magic Trick Store
Message: Posted by: tonsofquestions (Dec 19, 2017 09:44PM)
Is it your impression that pen-through is too much, or his? Because I don't consider that to be "sleights" you can remove a tip one handed, and put the bill down on top of it palm facing you, and no one's the wiser, even though you did it completely in the open. (Body blocking.)

If even that's too much, then 10 count will likely be also (despite my seconding the suggestion). But in that case, I suspect the magnetic version of S&S would be better, as it self-activates, rather than needing pressure as the bang-ring version does.
Message: Posted by: funsway (Dec 20, 2017 04:06AM)
On the one hand, my mind boggles at the notion that a person who made it though college and readily works with kids cannot (or has not) the ability to manipulate simple objects.
On the other hand, I have worked with many persons with physical disabilities and taught them magic effects - always looking at how to use the disability to advantage.
If the aversion/limitation is psychological, then ...

not being judgmental - just suggesting that the selection of trick should be based on the reason why he doesn't already do such things.
I am biased, of course, from coming from a generation in which every kid learned a couple of magic tricks, and performed them for adults and other kids. Why is he a "newbie?"
Possibly, being concerned over "gimmick vs sleight" is either disrespectful or enabling. What is objective in performing in his work?

So, find a copy of "The Boy Scout Book of Magic" and let him select his own method of communicating with kids and adults.

another thought is to focus on "semi-magic" items. Consider a couple dozen "Adair Butterfly" packets. This is the ever-popular long=short comparison puzzle with caterpillars,
that when turned over fit to form a butterfly. Kids can take them home (cheap) and amaze friends and stay off of video games for a moment.
Message: Posted by: Scott Horn (Dec 20, 2017 07:32AM)
Its not an issue of "ability," per se....and I do believe there are plenty of smart, intelligent people who just don't have the dexterity or ability to mime actions for magic. In any event, maybe I mis-represented my request by using the term "newbie." He is very busy in his practice and social life, and has other interests; learning magic is not one of them. He enjoys watching magic, and does play with a TT with young kids "on occasion."

Nickles to Dimes is "close," but that cap is not something lots of folks have in their pocket or would recognize as "common." Out to lunch is a possibility if I got him the Stockholder wallet and a "set" routine. I still am gravitating toward SS / GT / CU. No "technique," easy to carry, "normal" props, and I think it is more repeatable (over time) for the same audience.
Message: Posted by: simplymagicweb (Dec 20, 2017 10:51AM)
Hi Scott - if its coins, then I guess Coin Unique is the way to go. However, if he's a psychologist then what about Genetics.... not a coin trick however, but self working and fun
Message: Posted by: Scott Horn (Dec 20, 2017 11:02AM)
Thanks. I wasn't with Genetics and just looked it up. If this is Sean Goodman's card effect.... It looks good, but doesn't fit the bill. Its not something he would "normally" have in his pocket all the time, and it definitely isn't using items which are "familiar" to most. Again, I'm looking for effects (not necessarily coins) for a an "anytime, anyplace" quickie
Message: Posted by: Wravyn (Dec 20, 2017 11:41AM)
Perhaps Quiver?

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=644626&forum=218
Message: Posted by: Scott Horn (Dec 20, 2017 12:28PM)
Quiver is a good idea (I have 2 for myself) ... Just a simple switch.. say the "paper" coin to a real coin. Good option
Message: Posted by: simplymagicweb (Dec 20, 2017 11:02PM)
What about the Raven or Ring Flight Revolution too?
Message: Posted by: inigmntoya (Dec 21, 2017 12:16AM)
If he's not that into magic, do we really want him to have a great utility tool like quiver that might be exposed through "loose" handling?

I have a family friend who works for his volunteer fire department who's been carrying a hotrod for quite some time to distract kids when there's something going on with either them or a family member. He was looking for something else, but it needed to be simple, and like the hot rod, one he could carry easily. The Amazing Jumping Arrow was the perfect fit. Any simple paddle trick should be good.
Message: Posted by: inigmntoya (Dec 21, 2017 12:18AM)
If it's got to be coins, then scotch and soda.
Message: Posted by: warren (Dec 21, 2017 03:40AM)
If he's not a magician and has zero interest in learning magic using sleights why are people happy for him to give away items such as Quiver, ring flight revolution etc or are these joke suggestions ?
Message: Posted by: tonsofquestions (Dec 21, 2017 10:10AM)
I like the hot-rod suggestion, and third the concern about giving away something *too* good (e.g. Quiver) as opposed to something essentially in the public domain (e.g. the paddle move). Though neither is particularly repeatable to the same audience.

I agree to some extent that sleights are too much for some people (especially if they're unwilling to practice), but I also draw the distinction between a "sleight" (e.g. a retention pass) and, say, holding something in finger-palm secretly from the audience. The latter should be doable by anyone with a small amount of misdirection.
Message: Posted by: funsway (Dec 21, 2017 11:31AM)
Ditto on the last, tons. My wife is a musician and not a magician. Yet, she has always had a guitar pick hidden in her fingers when playing.
It is a very natural thing to do.
Message: Posted by: warren (Dec 21, 2017 02:10PM)
[quote]On Dec 21, 2017, tonsofquestions wrote:
I like the hot-rod suggestion, and third the concern about giving away something *too* good (e.g. Quiver) as opposed to something essentially in the public domain (e.g. the paddle move). Though neither is particularly repeatable to the same audience.

I agree to some extent that sleights are too much for some people (especially if they're unwilling to practice), but I also draw the distinction between a "sleight" (e.g. a retention pass) and, say, holding something in finger-palm secretly from the audience. The latter should be doable by anyone with a small amount of misdirection. [/quote]


It was said at the begining that this isn't a magician and he has no interest in learning sleight of hand magic therefore why on earth would you be willing to give away things like quiver etc.

As I said before magic certainly isn't what it used to be, giving away these things to someone who can't be bothered to learn anything with just a tiny bit of skill and can't be bothered enough to even do a little research himself just cheapens the art.
Message: Posted by: Scott Horn (Dec 21, 2017 02:54PM)
Given all the feedback, I think Scotch and Soda / Gin and Tonic / Double Deception is the way to go. SS and GT (along with Invisible decks, sponge balls and hot rods) have been marketed to anyone and everyone for decades, so there is no new exposure here.

This fits the bill for a non-magician, lover of magic... who will NOT disclose the gimmick
- Self working / NO sleight of hand - just sliding one coin over another one
- Familiar props / Impromptu appearance - 2 common coins
- Repeatable - not 5 times in a row, but maybe once a month or so to friends and associates
- Easy to carry - 3 coins in a little pouch
- Ends "clean," although not examinable (No, he will not be able to do a convincing switch)
- Simple reset - even easier with magnetic version

- I also think the magnetic version allows for 3-4 different presentations (none requiring any "technique") that can appear to be different effects

and just hope he doesn't spend them !
Message: Posted by: warren (Dec 21, 2017 05:26PM)
Exposure is exposure my friend but there you go.
Message: Posted by: Scott Horn (Dec 21, 2017 06:45PM)
Where is the "exposure"??? Do you somehow think I'm making this gift to someone who will walk around with the intent of not performing, but just exposing the gimmick ?

I'm not telling him the method outright, the prop is being purchased, and he will have the accompanying instructions. He will perform it as intended and maintain the honor of non-disclosure ?
Message: Posted by: Scott Horn (Dec 21, 2017 06:46PM)
Oops... should have ended that last sentence with an exclamation point, not a question mark.
Message: Posted by: tonsofquestions (Dec 22, 2017 01:06AM)
Double Deception is something completely different. (It's also a lot more pricey.) I suspect he'll want some sleights with that - at least finger-palming a coin. So that might be too much. Sponge balls definitely do, as well.

I think warren's complaint of "exposure" (forgive me if I misread, here) is around exposing something "too good"/versatile, like Quiver. Better to leave that for people who can come up with something really incredible/unique, rather than just a purchased routine.

Sure, there's some element of showing someone a secret who doesn't really want to Thadevote time to the art, and might expose from poor performance, but there's nothing stopping someone from just buying stock items (like a S&S) off of Amazon, so it seems fine.

That said, I think he might have fun with a hot rod or simple paddle move trick - I'd put those in the similar "no sleights" category, yet aren't quite as self-working, particularly the former.

If you're particularly worried about him spending it, get a set that doesn't have local coins - e.g. a coin unique or UK set of S&S. I personally prefer the bigger coins for better visibility, but they're also a tad harder to conceal, which it sounds like he's unwilling to practice at all. You'd be the best judge.
Message: Posted by: warren (Dec 22, 2017 05:25AM)
Scott I'm just going by what you've said in the thread which is that basically you have a friend who is not a magician, that has no interest in learning sleight of hand etc but wants a few things to show some kids and their families whilst he's working please correct me if I'm wrong ?

If this is the case then in my opinion you most definiately should not be giving away excellent effects that many professionals use such as DD, Quiver, etc especially when this is someone that can't even be bothered to do some reasearch which lets face it is very easy in this day and age.

Only yesterday I was reading a thread where someone was showing a friend a video of a real magician performing 3 card monte and the friend hadn't a clue how it was done, so he then decided to perform 3 card monte himself for his friend possibly the next day and got busted after throwing the monte for the 3rd time in a row.

That example is the sad state of magic these days people performing magic poorly after next to no time practicing, he probably didn't think to use cards without boarders, he probably did the same move repeatably etc.

Sometimes you'll come across a thread and someone will say that they've been turned away when approaching a table to perform well its mainly down to them having wittnessed poorly performed magic in the past from people who just wanted to show their friends a few tricks.

If your friend is serious about learning magic and is willing to practise etc then that is completely different to someone who just wants to show some people a few things, there is a big big difference bewteen the two but from what you have said your friend falls into the latter so I would be very picky with what I would give away and limit my choices to something like a Svengali deck at most.
Message: Posted by: Scott Horn (Dec 22, 2017 10:56AM)
TonsOfQuestions, Warren. First off, mea culpa! I misstated Double Deception when I intended to say Coin Unique. To me, Scotch and Soda, Gin and Tonic, and Coin Unique are effectively the same gimmick. I know DD is far more "sophisticated" and absolutely is not free of some "handling" (i.e. sleight of hand). I apologize if my misstatement created the wrong understanding.

That said, and in context, I agree with your first point that there should be some alignment between performer and effect (including gimmick). I started a topic in Right or Wrong because I think this is an interesting discussion that is giving me something to ponder.

However, I take a little issue with Warren's second point. I didn't say, nor mean to imply, that my friend couldn't "be bothered" to practice. He loves magic but has neither the time or (frankly) the dexterity to do any manipulation. That's why I was looking for non-sleight / self working effects. I agree with your point about exposure through poorly performed magic, but that's a different topic altogether. My friend will honor the secret and will become competent, which is why I am looking to minimize the time and dexterity requirements. If I give him a video on the muscle pass it would sit in a drawer, if I give him Nickels to Dimes, he would do great with it.. but N2D doesn't fit what I am looking for.

I think Im going with some version of Scotch and Soda. I appreciate all the feedback. Please see my post in Right or Wrong if you'd like to continue this discussion
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Dec 24, 2017 09:34AM)
[quote]On Dec 22, 2017, warren wrote:
Only yesterday I was reading a thread where someone was showing a friend a video of a real magician performing 3 card Monte and the friend hadn't a clue how it was done, so he then decided to perform 3 card Monte himself for his friend possibly the next day and got busted after throwing the Monte for the 3rd time in a row.

That example is the sad state of magic these days people performing magic poorly after next to no time practicing, he probably didn't think to use cards without boarders, he probably did the same move repeatably etc.[/quote]

Though that digresses a bit from the OP's intent, That is the down side of learning new Magic tricks. Ya gonna have that FAIL factor. It happens. Or worse, some twid looks it up on YouTube on their phone and exposes it. That can discourage ya! That happens a lot. It happened to me a few times! But the point Warren made about the person not wanting to bother practicing, or doing slightly advanced methods, at what point do we say NO? The good stuff today is used by professionals. To give an example, The Secret Servante. Here is where it gets dicey:

My friend is a "casual" magician. Knows virtually NO sleight of hand, and uses a couple standards like N2Ds and S&S. He just bought a Secret Servante, and got busted with it. "I guess I'm not as slick as I thought." He never will be. It was an idea to "clean up" a bit. Had he asked ME? I'd have discouraged it, and would have told him to just use his pockets. Marketing being what it is, he was SOLD on the use of the tool. Now a good tool was exposed, thankfully to just a few people. So Warrens point does not fall on deaf ears.

Good magic has been thrust into the public spotlight for YEARS. Case in point, D'Lites and Invisible Thread (think Helicopter Card). Malls everywhere had cards floating and Las Vegas had drunks with D'Lites! The argument is, that an ENTERTAINER can STILL delight (pun intended!) an audience! But these unintended breaches do not HELP the entertainer. One has to look for other ways. Other effects. Until THOSE get exposed, etc. On it goes, ad nauseum. Even the occasional magician/hobbyist is stymied at times by exposure! These people are not armed with OUTS like a pro.

I never thought Scotch and Soda was marketed to the public. Maybe that's why the secret has been kept so long.

Doug
Message: Posted by: warren (Dec 24, 2017 10:49AM)
Doug, that was pretty much my point, there are many as you put it casual magicians although I wouldn't actually call them magicians myself haha. However most proper magicians take the time to put in the proper practice so rarely get busted even if an effect is new, where as these as you call them casual magicians usually can't be bothered to put the practice time in and secondly lack presentation skills which then ends up being challenge magic which leads to them getting busted.

If someone is serious then they don't mind putting in the practice and likewise if they are serious but lack the time to put in practice then surely they would be willing to wait until they do have time if they really are serious.

Going back to practice time, you would be surprised just how much practice you can do if your serious for example its a simple matter to put a coin into classic p**m and go about your daily business whilst trying to keep it there.
It's a simple matter to sit with a deck of cards in hand and practice a particular technique whilst watching TV etc.

I can remember many years ago when I had to use a bus to get to work I used to practice my coin roll with the idea that if I can do it on a moving bus then after that it would be easy.

How many times do we find ourselves with a few minutes to spare whilst waiting for something whether it be in a queue at the doctors, dentists,waiting for a customer etc the list goes on.

The point being if you are really serious about something you simply make the time and if your not willing to make the effort then I for one am certainly not about to give away something that means so much to me.

I made a comment on the new thread started by the OP what I would be willing to do for someone who just wants to be able to show a few things but isn't serious so I won't repeat it here.

Some of my comments can obviously be taken with a pinch of salt though as I'm old school which means in my day there was no google, youtube etc you had to go out of your way to learn anything, I'm a member of a magic club which means I took an oath never to knowingly expose magic etc and finally I also get paid to perform so don't take kindly to effects that put food on the table being given away freely.
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Dec 24, 2017 11:37PM)
Scott, consider Sticky Situation by Andy Leviss and performed by Rick Lax. It's restoring a stick of gum from a chewed wad to a full unchewed stick, and then again from that to a wrapped stick of gum. It's quick, uses a common item (there's a gimmick but it's very small and easily kept in any pocket).

Here's a link to this at Penguin: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/4225

Good luck!

Jim
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Dec 24, 2017 11:42PM)
[quote]On Dec 24, 2017, Dougini wrote:

I never thought Scotch and Soda was marketed to the public. Maybe that's why the secret has been kept so long.

Doug [/quote]

Doug, search for "scotch and soda magic trick" on Amazon and you'll see it offered by both Tango and Sasco. There's a LOT else on Amazon also.

Jim
Message: Posted by: tonsofquestions (Dec 24, 2017 11:47PM)
[quote]On Dec 24, 2017, J-Mac wrote:
Doug, search for "scotch and soda magic trick" on Amazon and you'll see it offered by both Tango and Sasco. There's a LOT else on Amazon also.

Jim [/quote]

That's not really a great measuring stick. A lot of Tango items are listed on Amazon, including the TUC. The Secret Servante is also listed there. Recall that Amazon can be a front for other businesses, just to get items visible.
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Dec 25, 2017 12:06AM)
Tons: Doug said he didn't think S&S was marketed to the public. It is listed for sale on Amazon. If that isn't marketed to the public then what is? Who asked about a "great measuring stick"?

Jim
Message: Posted by: tonsofquestions (Dec 25, 2017 08:36AM)
But that's exactly the point I'm making. It being on Amazon doesn't imply "marketed to the public" because tiny magic stores (or individuals, e.g. Sean Goodman: https://www.amazon.com/Sean-Goodman/b/ref=bl_dp_s_web_13607049011?ie=UTF8&node=13607049011&field-lbr_brands_browse-bin=Sean+Goodman) can also put things up there. Does that mean, that by your logic, the Secret Servante was also marketed to the public? That was not my understanding.

I'd say if it's at Walmart (thumb tips, beginner's magic sets, Svengali deck) then it would count as being "aimed at the muggles".
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Dec 25, 2017 08:50AM)
[quote]On Dec 25, 2017, tonsofquestions wrote:
I'd say if it's at Walmart (thumb tips, beginner's magic sets, Svengali deck) then it would count as being "aimed at the muggles". [/quote]

Walmart is a good example. Or Spencer's Gifts.

Doug
Message: Posted by: Charles Gaff (Dec 26, 2017 11:01PM)
Scotch and soda with the coin appearing under or in another location and the paddle move is pretty strong. Richard Sanders on the paddle is super strong.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Dec 27, 2017 05:49PM)
There's an impressive trick with a dime and penny- a transposition where the coin seems to change at the tap of a pen. Maybe that item?

link: http://www.fantasmamagic.com/double-x
Message: Posted by: Dollarbill (Dec 30, 2017 01:46AM)
[quote]On Dec 21, 2017, inigmntoya wrote:
If it's got to be coins, then scotch and soda. [/quote]


easily this........
Message: Posted by: Mb217 (Jan 28, 2018 10:46AM)
Hi Scott, welcome to the Café... :)

Lots of good suggestions here (surprised but maybe I missed it) but I didn't notice mention of a real stalwart of coin magic, maybe because it's so devilishly deceptive & simple... but a little [b]Copper & Silver Coin[/b] has a whole lot of magic to it. :) Plus it's pretty easy and cheap.

It's a coin you can do a lot with and learn a lot from. No hard moves to it really, just some practice to make the coins change places back & forth to great amazement...It meets all your requirements and I think your friend would truly love it. :)

I've had one of these coins since I was boy, several of them over the years, but my favorite came from Johnson's Coins...Love that coin! It was well made, looked good and felt great to handle for not much money. ;) Just add a matching English penny to it and away you go, and or [I]away you grow![/I] :)

Again, welcome. :)
Message: Posted by: funsway (Jan 28, 2018 02:22PM)
[quote]On Jan 28, 2018, Mb217 wrote:
It meets all your requirements
[/quote]

I though of a C/S right off, but he did say "gimmick" and mentioned "reset." The C/S is a gaff rather than gimmick ..,

but, if you, old friend, think they are interchangeable terms, or feel the OP is really asking for something not completely sleight based ...

Regardless, I still feel that gifting any magician a gaffed or gimmicked anything is not a good idea as stated above.

Now, if for magician friends you do a routine where they will assume you are using a C/S when you are not -- is that an un-gaff, or an over-sleight?
Message: Posted by: tonsofquestions (Jan 28, 2018 07:42PM)
I agree with Funsway here. If pen-through-anything is too much sleight of hand, then a copper silver is worse - that even requires some sort of switch so that you can hand out the coin afterwards - and that was a no-go for the original poster - the giftee was unwilling to put in much practice. You definitely don't end "as clean as possible", otherwise.

I completely agree that a C/S coin is a fantastic tool/utility, and that there's so much you can do with one. It's one of my favorites as well. Though, in an interesting turn, a S&S actually has one in it, (though of lesser quality), so it's possible it might inspire the recipient to practice more and work on some of those sleights. From what I heard, though, it doesn't sound too likely...
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jan 28, 2018 07:59PM)
[quote]On Dec 19, 2017, Scott Horn wrote:
I'm looking for a gimmicked coin effect for a friend who loves magic but is NOT a magician. He is a psychologist who does a lot of work with kids of all ages and families. I've given him a D'Lite and he has fun with younger kids.

I am looking for an effect he can use with older kids and adults... Conditions:
- As self working as possible / NO sleight of hand
- Familiar props / Impromptu appearance
- Easy to carry
- As "clean" as possible in the end
- Simple reset...[/quote]

Impromptu pretty much rules out anything with English Pennies. He's doing okay with the timing to make the hand-to-hand transfer with d-lites? Good for him.

There's a cute year (date) prediction trick using one gaffed coin he might like. Also some fun things you can do with a "hoo" coin (or the modern magnetic version) if he's up for that.

Still recommend that item using the dime and penny coins - that looks about as impromptu as you can get. :)
Message: Posted by: tonsofquestions (Jan 28, 2018 09:03PM)
There's also one with a Golden (US) Dollar and a quarter called "Vodka and Orange", but I think an English Penny is probably fine.
I think the impromptu was "not a lot of setup" as opposed to "organic", which works fine in a "I was traveling and picked up this weird foreign coin" or some such.
Message: Posted by: funsway (Jan 29, 2018 04:40AM)
If the consensus it towards this type of tick, then the Chinese Color Changing Coin should be considered. Single coin, red to blue to black and can be handed out. Reset is simple. and is a gimmick.

Some semi-sleight handling is involved, but no palming. Many story lines possible to match the news of the day about US- China relations.

Later on, if desired, he can add an Exp [ in black and really know 'em dead.