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Topic: John Scarne articles in Yank Magazine
Message: Posted by: luvisi (Jan 9, 2018 02:49AM)
I just ran across these. Thought y'all might find them interesting.

http://www.unz.org/Pub/Yank-1943mar12-00004
http://www.unz.org/Pub/Yank-1943apr09-00008
http://www.unz.org/Pub/Yank-1943jun04-00008
http://www.unz.org/Pub/Yank-1943jul23-00008
http://www.unz.org/Pub/Yank-1943oct01-00010
http://www.unz.org/Pub/Yank-1943dec10-00010

Andru
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Jan 9, 2018 11:15AM)
Good find.

Scarne traveled to the military camps and bases during WWII to do exposes and wrote articles to wise up the service men because were easy marks for card and dice game cheaters. It also helped build his reputation and credentials as a gambling expert.

Most of the cheating methods disclosed in these 1943 articles and in his subsequent books were relatively [i]unknown[/i] at that period of time and more importantly were [i]practical[/i] ploys that were in use. Nothing fancy here - just solid cheating methods.

Much of what has been exposed in these articles is still in use in private games, in one form or another, throughout the USA and many other parts of the world.

In some of these private games, although they may have a more casual format, serious money can be made depending upon the customs in the local area, player preferences, proximity to casinos and other factors. Even if there are casinos in a local area, oftentimes players will opt to have private or perhaps more casual games instead - some of which are small time Mickey Mouse games and some can be [i]very serious[/i] with big money changing hands.

I should add that I gained a tremendous amount of knowledge from Scarne's various books and articles because they dealt with [i]real world gambling[/i]. Of course, I built considerably on that information, but Scarne gave me a solid base to grow from, the knowledge was invaluable and served me extremely well over the years.

Good articles, Andru. Thanks.
Message: Posted by: steve ehlers (Jan 9, 2018 12:24PM)
Andru,
Thanks I really enjoyed looking at those.

Steve
Message: Posted by: slim23 (Jan 11, 2018 08:05AM)
Very cool to see these old articles! Great find, thanks for giving us the link.

Cheers,

Slim
Message: Posted by: hcs (Jan 13, 2018 09:53AM)
Thank you very much for giving this links.
Message: Posted by: Marlin1894 (Mar 26, 2018 01:38PM)
Very cool, thanks Luvisi.
Message: Posted by: Gamblingman007 (Mar 28, 2018 05:46PM)
I once idolized Scarne when I was just learning but after hearing what a lot of old hustlers said about him made me realize that he was just a magician who could do gambling moves. Scarne was known as a coat puller (a person known for waking up the suckers or the dead) in his day. Where’s the article about Scarne being laughed off stage after being cheated by some hustlers who was in the audience. They told him after embarrassing him “to run and tell that” or write an article about that; so where is it?

John was a great exhibitionist but when it really came down to getting down he was so scared to cheat that he snuck out of a game through a casino bathroom window. Where are those articles?


The Gamblingman007
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Mar 31, 2018 04:48PM)
[quote]On Mar 28, 2018, Gamblingman007 wrote:
I once idolized Scarne when I was just learning but after hearing what a lot of old hustlers said about him made me realize that he was just a magician who could do gambling moves. Scarne was known as a coat puller (a person known for waking up the suckers or the dead) in his day. [/quote]

Scarne did expose some good, workable gaffs in his day when little was known about these methods, but he was not a hustler. He was first and foremost a magician, who like Mickey MacDougall found that being a "gambling expert" was more lucrative than doing magic tricks.

Many hustlers despised Scarne and MacDougall, although they were lauded by magicians and the general public. Hustlers considered them to be gutless blabbermouth rats that exposed many things they were shown in confidence, and that opinion is still prevalent in regard to the expose and "gaming protection" crowd of today.

Keep in mind that is not my opinion, but the general view of many in the hustling community.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Bones (Mar 31, 2018 04:58PM)
Personally, I found Scarne to come across as somewhat of a buffoon in his most well known books on gambling.

But one thing you can't fault him on was the quantity and quality of information that he made available to the gambler (or potential gambler) in his more well known books, especially as that information relates to casino odds.
I kind of doubt that he carried all that information around in his head though, and was likely furnished with the information by others.
But there's no doubting that in the 1961 edition of [b]Scarne's Complete Guide to Gambling[/b], one found a lot more information in one place than might be found elsewhere.

But never sell short the man who invented [b]Teeko[/b] and [b]Scarney[/b]!
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Mar 31, 2018 05:30PM)
[quote]On Mar 31, 2018, Mr. Bones wrote:

Personally, I found Scarne to come across as somewhat of a buffoon in his most well known books on gambling.[/quote]

Certainly at least -- an insufferable egotist...and that insufferable egotism seem to have benefited him to some degree in bolstering his career.

Go figure...
Message: Posted by: Merc Man (Mar 31, 2018 07:35PM)
I do find myself having to chuckle at all these 'gambling mechanics and officicianado's' decrying John Scarne on an errmmmmmm 'Magicians Forum'.

If it wasn't so hypocritical, it would actually be laughable. Not least because the majority have probably never never orchestrated nor participated in a real 'money game' during their entire lives!
Message: Posted by: Gamblingman007 (Apr 1, 2018 04:26AM)
Mr. Merc Man I don’t know what “decrying John Scarne” mean but I is a real Gamblingman and most guys in the know who really gambled for a living like Mr. Cagliostro and I really know this about Scarne. So what do you mean about the majority when only Mr. Cagliostro and I is the only ones who spoke on the subject. Mr. Bones whoever this gentleman is, is correct about what he stated as well. A lot of what Scarne wrote about dice in his books is wrong and he got a whole bunch of prop people posing with hands at a card or black jack table which is staged just for a photo.

Now did I learn a lot from reading John Scarne, yes I did but once you graduate to the real academy you also learn where he lacked at as well.

The Gamblingman007
Message: Posted by: Mr. Bones (Apr 1, 2018 12:09PM)
Tried to find some value in Merc Mans post ... failed completely.

No value to be found.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Apr 1, 2018 02:11PM)
[quote]On Apr 1, 2018, Gamblingman007 wrote:

Now did I learn a lot from reading John Scarne, yes I did but once you graduate to the real academy you also learn where he lacked at as well. [/quote]

I agree with that observation 100%. I learned a great deal also from Scarne when I was a teenager on up until my early 20's. One has to put everything in context with the era in question. At the time that Scarne's books first came out, almost [i]no one[/i] knew this stuff, or at least a very few. It was not like today.

I remember I first read about riffle stacking in one of Scarne's original hard cover books, with all the great photos - [b]Scarne on Cards[/b]. I though, wow, I have to learn that---but where do I go? Certainly not Erdnase. So I scoured everything I could find and there were only four explanations at the time ...[b]and a Pack of Cards[/b] by Jack Merlin, [b]Card Mastery[/b] by MacDougall (which was not very practical), [b]Sharps and Flats[/b] (also not very practical) and [b]More Card Manipulations[/b] (I think vol. 2 and the best explanation of all), by Jean Hugard. That was it!!!!

But... that was enough. :)

I spent a great deal of time mastering that move in front of a three way mirror...hour after hour, week after week and so on. That was how things were back then.

Finally, when I moved to Vegas and got in with the real pros at this...WOW...that was the "real academy" for me. Then I never looked back.That was when I learned that much of what I learned prior to Vegas was good but a lot was also BS.

Yea, the real academy is different to say the least. :cool:
Message: Posted by: Gamblingman007 (Apr 1, 2018 05:40PM)
Mr.. Cagliostro you’re the real deal. I have every one of those books that you just mentioned. Congratulations wow you were with the pros while I was working the chitterling circuit. I hope one day to be where you were or are. Nice post and good reading.


The Gamblingman007
Message: Posted by: Merc Man (Apr 2, 2018 06:38PM)
The point I was making was in response to references of Scarne just being a magician; not, as inferred, a Real World card hustler.

Yet these comments are made within a gambling section........upon a Magic Forum! :hysteric:

You yanks just don't get satire, do you.

I don't know how you all have so much time to waste on a magic forum anyway. I thought you'd all be in Las Vegas; cleaning out the casinos.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Bones (Apr 2, 2018 09:48PM)
[quote]On Apr 2, 2018, Merc Man wrote:
You yanks just don't get satire, do you.
[/quote]
Not when an old gob rag does such a poor job of presenting it
:cucumber: :coolspot: :pepper:
Message: Posted by: B.W. McCarron (Nov 9, 2018 10:26AM)
Andru,

Thanks much for posting the link to those Yank articles. It's nice to know that those historical articles are being preserved.


--Brett
Message: Posted by: cbharrelson (Nov 9, 2018 02:59PM)
I disagree with the folks who do not think John Scarne was a good hustler. He went to where the money was and hustled in a legal way. It was for game protection. I believe he as the one to get the casinos to go to multi deck blackjack. He was good at convincing people that he was better than he actually was.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Bones (Nov 9, 2018 07:02PM)
There's a big difference between being a "hustler", and being able to move in a game.
The guy who sold me my Ford F-150 was a hustler, but I doubt he could deal a second.

Most folks in this forum usually note that Scarne was all talk when it came to [i]he himself[/i] cheating at cards and dice ... which was likely the hard truth.

Actually Scarne's greatest skill was as an author. Not for the quality of his prose, but for his in-depth explanations of table games.
I learned everything I know about Craps, Blackjack, Roulette, Baccarat, Slots, etc from reading Scarne's big book on the subject.
Back in the day, I read it and re-read it a couple of dozen times.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Nov 9, 2018 07:56PM)
[quote]On Nov 9, 2018, Mr. Bones wrote:

Actually Scarne's greatest skill was as an author. Not for the quality of his prose, but for his in-depth explanations of table games.
I learned everything I know about Craps, Blackjack, Roulette, Baccarat, Slots, etc from reading Scarne's big book on the subject.
Back in the day, I read it and re-read it a couple of dozen times. [/quote]

Absolutely agree. Scarne's in depth and extensive explanations on gambling games jumped started me and I was years ahead in understanding the various games, odds, procedures, cheating methods and so on. Well ahead of others in understanding what gambling was all about. That was invaluable.

Fortunately this was before the magician/hobbyist/demonstrator craze took hold and I was not distracted by a lot of "non-gambling" and somewaht questionable information and ideas.
Message: Posted by: cbharrelson (Nov 10, 2018 05:45PM)
Well not all hustlers deal seconds or do moves but anyone who does moves in a game and makes money is a hustler.