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Topic: Forcing a number from 0-5
Message: Posted by: fuzzbass (Apr 22, 2018 04:52AM)
Hope you don’t mind me picking your brains, but I’m a bit stuck on a solution to an effect I’m trying to create.

The first part of the effect uses the BFD (Digital Force Bag) App on the iPhone. This is a forcing app that asks a spectator for a random number and then forces an item on a list for that number.

The idea is to use DFB with two lists of UK Football teams to generate two “random” teams to play in a fictional match. I can easily force the two teams, either with two separate lists, or a list combining ready arranged matches. Having two separate lists will enable me to have two spectators to “compete” against each other.

What I am having trouble with is coming up with a method to generate the two “forced scores”. The finale of the effect will be to produce a printed photo showing both the two forced teams and the two forced scorelines.

I know I could use the George Sands Prime Number Force to generate a number between 1 and 5, but ideally I would like to incorporate the possibility of a to nill (0) scoreline, i.e 3-0. Unfortunately the George Sands method won’t work for 6 numbers.

What I am asking is:

Do you know of an alternative method I can use to force a number between 0 and 5, twice (once for each spectator)?

Steve Hansey

George Sands Prime Number Force

Get an Ace through Five, mix them and get the number you want to force on top.

Get them to give you any number lower than 5, transfer that many cards from top to bottom.

Turn over the top card, keep repeating the process with the same number until you only have one card left face down.

It will be the one you arranged on the top.
Message: Posted by: FrankFindley (Apr 25, 2018 09:50PM)
One option may be to use dice:


Bascally, by connecting dots on the six you end up with a die from zero to five. Spectators understand this easily. If you use a sure shot die cup you ask the spectator to choose the starting number placing it uppermost. Then you casually shake it to 'randomize'.
Message: Posted by: FrankFindley (Apr 25, 2018 11:03PM)
Had a few more thoughts.

The dice approach is nice in that you could use two dice at once making it a competition, You say you are going to shake the cup vigorously five times and they each get to choose which number to start. This makes it a competion between the two teams.

A similar idea would be to use five coins under a cloth. One spectator's team is head, the other tails. Each takes a turn flipping coins under the cloth. Then the cloth is removed and the heads and tails are counted to see the score, for example 1 heads vs 4 tails. Of course you control this using d***** s**** coins.

Another approach would be to use a clear bag with slips of different combinations of outcomes on them which a spectator chooses. You can even have different color slips (one for each team) and have them pull out several and choose to keep one of each color.

The nice thing about making it a more 'head to head' game is that it gives a reason why the app isn't being used.
Message: Posted by: CardMaker (Apr 26, 2018 10:48AM)
Wiggle your (5) fingers and ask the spectator to say STOP.
Message: Posted by: Mark Williams (Apr 28, 2018 03:53PM)
Fuzzbass, You could use a force credited to Edward Victor ("More Magic of the Hands"-1938)

Take a look at these lists a friend of mine created for a routine he developed. His effect retells a story of a vintage dog race, years ago. Each separate card has Jumping Jack as the forced choice. His trick uses 6 cards, you would only need to use 5 and print the winning team instead of a dog.



Best Magical Regards,

Mark Williams
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (May 2, 2018 05:29AM)
Phill Smith - Quinta
Message: Posted by: SIX (Jun 12, 2018 08:21PM)
Woody Aragon does a finger force, which is in his A Book In English (also in Semi-Automatic Volume 10, I think?). I believe you can use that method to force them different numbers, Personally, in order to make that approach work I would have the two individuals stand back to back, this way you can tell them each to grab a finger as a starting point. (Each would have a different finger as a starting point, hence the back to back.) Now you can give them the same exact instructions and end up with the forced fingers.

Hope this helps.

Message: Posted by: Mr. Mindbender (Jun 13, 2018 01:06PM)
If you're using the DFB app to select your teams, I think ideally you would select a final score in a way that is congruent to how you picked the teams. If you use a list on your phone to choose teams, to me at least, it would seem odd to involve other props (other than something like fingers) to determine a score. So since you're already using the phone for team selection, maybe you use some variation of the Toxic Force with your phone's calculator to get to a score?
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mindbender (Jun 13, 2018 01:08PM)
PS: Not sure why this post is in the forum for Mem Deck work. You may get more advice posting it in Inner Thoughts.
Message: Posted by: dmoriarty1 (Jan 11, 2019 10:54PM)
[quote]On Apr 25, 2018, FrankFindley wrote:

Another approach would be to use a clear bag with slips of different combinations of outcomes on them which a spectator chooses. You can even have different color slips (one for each team) and have them pull out several and choose to keep one of each color.

The nice thing about making it a more 'head to head' game is that it gives a reason why the app isn't being used. [/quote]

I was actually going to suggest a good ol' clear force bag. I have one with three pockets, and use it to force two numbers or words.
Message: Posted by: Melephin (Jul 9, 2019 05:39AM)
What about having them really choose any number from zero to five and having five outs at the ready?
Message: Posted by: WayneBurrows (Jul 17, 2019 12:12PM)
[quote]On Jul 9, 2019, Melephin wrote:
What about having them really choose any number from zero to five and having five outs at the ready? [/quote]

1. There are six outs required.

2. If there are two teams then there are 36 outs required.
Message: Posted by: The Magic Ref (Jul 22, 2019 03:13PM)
Here ya go...Google Six Outs by Blake Vogt :)
Message: Posted by: holdingoutflat (Sep 1, 2019 02:51PM)
This isn't exactly what you were asking for but a great way to force that type of number would be mag dice. A certain gentlemen at Slim Card company (who makes the best gaffed decks and cards anywhere, by the way) can make some incredible mag dice. I love my set.
Message: Posted by: Andy Moss (Feb 9, 2020 04:48PM)
No dice required! The following methodology subtly disguises the use of a mathematical force.

Tell a spectator that they are going to play a game of twelve dice "Mental Yahtzee".Then have them accordingly MENTALLY roll the twelve dice and tell them that it must be their lucky day as ALL the dice have ended up with the same top numbers. What were the odds that that could happen! Yahtzee!!

Ask them to visualise this winning digit but to importantly keep it a secret known only to themselves.

Now have them add up the top values of TEN of the twelve die and to divide this total by the total of the remaining TWO die.

The answer will always be five!

Note that this particular force would seem suited for the forcing of the second pair of cards in Roy Walton's effect 'Double Discovery' since the spectator's counting of five from either left or right in the row of nine pairs (the spectator may choose which side to count from) may be considered to be a worthy alternative to the two die "add opposite sides" 14 force which achieves the same end but in a more long winded way).
Message: Posted by: Andy Moss (Feb 10, 2020 06:30AM)
This variant presentation of George Sand's 'Prime number force' will give you the strongest chance of 'best scenarios'. This can be used with five cards to force any number from one to five inclusive or with eleven cards to force any number from one to eleven inclusive (or "name any single digit").

Use any five playing cards numbered from ace to five. Control mix the five cards so that your force numbered card remains on top of the face down pile. (It is not important what the order of the other four cards are.)

Then, without paying any attention to it, place this card with the number you want to force FACE DOWN (value unknown to spectator as of yet) on a surface. Ask the spectator to name any number from one to five inclusive.

If they name "five" (and 5 is the number you are aiming to force) then simply reveal that the face down card is the card with the value of five! You can now reveal the values of the other four cards and talk about intuition as way of patter. You have in addition forced the number you wanted!

If they name the number "one" then fan out the remaining four cards face down in your hands and have the spectator choose cards from the fan randomly placing them FACE DOWN one by one in a row to the right of the first force value card. It will seem like the first card is a guide card for the lay out of the pattern of the row as way of a demo. (At the time this demo card is put down the spectator has not yet given their number) Bring attention to the fact that the spectator named one as you place your finger on "the first card" of the face down row which will be the force card. All the cards can now be turned face up and everything will seem random in the row. Once again your force number has been purely forced.

So 40% of the time we get a perfect scenario for our number force from a row of random ordered cards laid down by the spectator.

With respect to the spectator calling "two" or "three" or "four" undertake the count in the row. Start the count on the first left most card of the row. Turn over face up the very NEXT CARD after the count ends (so if given "two" the card turned over will be the third card in the row). Then commence with the two count again starting with with this now face up card......

At the end of this force elimination only your force value card should remain face down. Clear all the face up cards away and turn over the card remaining. Place all attention upon it.

You could avoid the playing cards completely and use pencil and paper crossing out the numbers as you count along the row. The above presentation could easily be adapted for this.