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Topic: Clear Cups & Balls
Message: Posted by: Mirokai (Apr 30, 2004 02:51PM)
Did you ever see the Cups & Balls routine from Penn & Teller where they use clear cups… it’s just so, so…well so hilarious, typical from them. I must confess I always love their job… like the cigarette routine where they explain the 7 principles of magic.

But well what do you think about this routine (The C&B) and do you know any place where I can learn it?

Thanks
Message: Posted by: deerbourne (Apr 30, 2004 10:52PM)
I enjoyed the seven principles of magic. The version I saw was part of a TLC program so I missed a bit of it. I did like the fact that Teller didn't always do what Penn was describing (or at least exactly as he described it).

Most of their stuff is great. As for the clear cups and balls, I think it just loses it's power at that speed. At that point it isn't the cups and balls but a performance piece that doesn't relate much to magic anymore. I know a lot of people think this is a great trick but it didn't do anything for me.

Stick to the real experts in Cups and Balls and you'll have an audience that will really appreciate your performance.

Deerbourne
Message: Posted by: tommy ng (May 1, 2004 03:59AM)
I just saw the Jason Latimer, his clear c&b routine, never saw the Penn & Teller routine, is they routine very close?
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (May 1, 2004 09:02AM)
Where the Penn and Teller thing involves using clear cups to perform the (now) classic routine as comedy, Jason Latimer has found some nice mechanics to make a cups trick with clear cups appear more magical.
Message: Posted by: Mirokai (May 1, 2004 11:53AM)
I never see Jason Latimer but what I like about the method of P&T is the comedy involve.
Message: Posted by: deerbourne (May 1, 2004 12:09PM)
I truly enjoy the comedy part of their performances. I would think it would be hard to impart to comedic part of a performance in instructions since comedic timing and design is such a personal thing. What works for one performer may not work for another.

Deerbourne
Message: Posted by: John Cass (May 2, 2004 06:53PM)
[quote]
On 2004-05-01 04:59, tommy ng wrote:
I just saw the Jason Latimer, his clear c&b routine, never saw the Penn & Teller routine, is they routine very close?
[/quote]

They are completely different. Not even close. Jason may publish his routine, soon, so I have heard.
Message: Posted by: Matt Graves (May 3, 2004 12:25AM)
I never saw anyone perform C & B with clear cups. It seems like that would expose the whole secret. In fact, I heard of Penn and Teller doing that a long time ago, when I was first starting in magic, and so I tried it . . . and of course I got ridiculed because everyone saw what I was doing. Do they ever rerun that show where P & T do it with clear cups? What show was it on, anyway?
Message: Posted by: Poindexter (May 3, 2004 07:05AM)
Serling307,

If you ever get the opportunity, check out International Magic's 6th International Close Up Competition video.

Gazzo won this competition, performing his Cups and Balls, although the gentleman (don't recall his name...) that performed a couple of acts *before* Gazzo did the C&B blindfolded, with clear cups. I believe used tomatoes as his final loads.

If anyone in the room wasn't familiar with the mechanics of the Cups & Balls at the start, you can bet that everyone who wasn't sleeping not only knew them, but were, in all likelihood, carefully watching for the loads to happen when Gazzo went on.

Gazzo won this competition. The audience mostly knew what was coming up. How does someone win a contest by performing an effect that has just been exposed in one of the preceeding acts?

He *entertained* them. Something to think about.....
Message: Posted by: James Harrison (May 3, 2004 09:35AM)
I would like to see Jason Latimer's version of the clear cups and balls.


Penn and Teller used clear cups and balls to 'expose' this age old trick.

But on a magic special, Teller explains why they did it, and how the speed they go at helps with the pseudo explanation.
Message: Posted by: Han Solo (May 3, 2004 11:20PM)
Whats the point of clear cbs? That screws up the trick!
Message: Posted by: James Harrison (May 4, 2004 08:20AM)
LOL,

You should really see the trick first, before you comment on it.

Penn and Teller's version is quite magicial. And So is Jason Latimer's, from what I've heard.
Message: Posted by: Terry Holley (May 17, 2004 07:55PM)
For what it's worth, if you go to Jim Riser's great Cups and Balls web page and hang in there until all the photos are loaded, the bottom photo is of my Crystal Cups and Balls.

http://www.jamesriser.com/Cups/HistoricCups.html

The idea and routine was developed back in the mid-70's.

Jim's cups and balls pages are really interesting and a special treat for anyone who appreciates the cups.

Of course, you'll also want to visit Bill Palmer's wonderful Cups and Balls page!

http://www.hocuspocusjr.com/cups.htm

Terry
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (May 17, 2004 08:28PM)
What kind of routine did you do? Is Latimer's similar?
Message: Posted by: Terry Holley (May 17, 2004 09:09PM)
[quote]
On 2004-05-17 21:28, Pete Biro wrote:
What kind of routine did you do? Is Latimer's similar?
[/quote]
The routine is basically Vernon.

I was told by one professional not to waste time with all the ball moves and "get to the money" (the loads)!

The fact that you can "see" through the cups without seeing the crystal balls is what makes it unusual. Of course, the design of the cups and the clear balls help with the disguise.

My inspiration for this came from Roy Fromer's little book "The Cups" (copyright 1972). He mentions Crystal Cups and Balls as "The Ultimate Cups and Balls" under the heading "Three 'Dream' Tricks."

Also, the different size loads (as you can see in the picture) add to the uniqueness.

Terry
Message: Posted by: rannie (May 18, 2004 10:10AM)
Jason Latimer's work with the cups was BEAUTIFUL and MAGICAL!

Rannie
Message: Posted by: Magictrickster (May 19, 2004 01:37AM)
Jason Latimer's clear cups are also his own invention, so totally original. In this the loads magically appear inside a previously empty clear cup, whereas the P & T version is simply an exposition of the effect.

Brian.
Message: Posted by: broothal (May 19, 2004 03:24PM)
I saw Jason Latimer perform his clear cups and balls routine a few times at FISM. His routine is clearly (no pun intended) magical, whilst the Penn and Teller routine is ambiguous. That is - it's meant to be an exposure since the cups are clear, but Teller performs it so fast it's impossible to follow nevertheless.
Message: Posted by: alexhui (Dec 21, 2004 05:34PM)
Jason Latimer knows what the magic should look like. His Cups & Balls clearly show how talent he is.

Alex Hui
Message: Posted by: Richard Evans (Dec 21, 2004 06:33PM)
Terry,

I was interested to see the picture of your cups on Jim Riser's website. In your crystal cups routine, did you use a cupful of the small glass balls as a single final load?

Richard
Message: Posted by: Avin (Dec 21, 2004 07:06PM)
I agree with James Harrison: P&T's version of cups and balls using clear plastic cups and tin foil balls killed! Extremely magical and in no real way expository. It's been at least 13 or 14 years since I had the chance to see them perform in New York and the C&B routine was a real highlight of the show. Now, of course, MOFO stole the show as far as I'm concerned, but that's another story...
Message: Posted by: Terry Holley (Dec 21, 2004 09:26PM)
[quote]
On 2004-12-21 19:33, taliesin wrote:
Terry,

I was interested to see the picture of your cups on Jim Riser's website. In your crystal cups routine, did you use a cupful of the small glass balls as a single final load?

Richard
[/quote]

The loads are as follows:

Large balls under the end cups, then the cupful of smallest balls under the middle cup, and as the finale, the largest ball out of the same middle cup.

Terry
Message: Posted by: MetalBender (Dec 22, 2004 09:56AM)
If I'm not mistaken Penn and Tellar didn't expose the way the trick worked because they were loading lemons, and potatoes and al kinds of things, then stealing them out and lapping them. It's been a loooooooong time since I've seen it but I remember enjoying it because it was one of those routines where they tell you they are going to expose it, but they actually fool the audience. I could be way off base but it was a skillfull bit of misdirection by Penn and some good slieght of hand by Tellar. I could be wrong but remember it's not the trick they saw, it's the trick they remember.
Message: Posted by: Richard Evans (Dec 22, 2004 04:50PM)
Thanks, Terry. Have you ever published the routine?
Message: Posted by: Terry Holley (Dec 23, 2004 06:30PM)
[quote]
On 2004-12-22 17:50, taliesin wrote:
Thanks, Terry. Have you ever published the routine?
[/quote]
I haven't published a routine because the unique aspect to the effect is really the cups, balls, loads, and wand (all "crystal") - not the routine. The routine (moves) can go in diffrent directions.

I do hope that no other magician has "borrowed" the concept. Another magician and I worked out this effect in the mid-70's, and I believe we should be the only ones performing it.

Back around 1985 I had the opportunity to present it to a well-known name in magic who wanted to see it for possible inclusion in his shows, but he never used it for various reasons.

Terry
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Dec 23, 2004 06:36PM)
This is such a beautiful concept. I hope noone rips it off. Of course, it would be costly.
Message: Posted by: pepka (Dec 23, 2004 07:22PM)
OK Terry, I'll bite. Who was it?
Message: Posted by: Jailhouse Jonny (Dec 23, 2004 10:56PM)
Jeffrey Campbell, of the Waukesha, Wisconsin, Jest For Fun Joke Shop, has a manuscript for Crystal Cups. I believe he is also it's author. Contact him through his website.

http://www.jokeshop.us/index.html

Crystal Cups ($9.95) Campbell - This was my first published book (Micky Hades International 1983). It began as a challenge from good buddy Don Lamb to do the cups and balls with clear cups. The challenge was accepted by Ron Dayton and myself. This book is the result. (autographed on request)
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Dec 24, 2004 03:07AM)
It's a completely different concept from Terry's or from Jason Latimer's. It is a good book, though.
Message: Posted by: twistedace (Dec 28, 2004 01:08PM)
Latimer's routine is simply amazing. It looks like he just slides the cups and balls disappear and reappear elsewhere. It is rumored that he will be marketing the cups with Porper I believe and he said he also may have a DvD with something like 140 moves because all of the moves for his clear cups are original. He will not be giving away his routine though.
Message: Posted by: BlackShadow (Jan 1, 2005 04:28PM)
Try using a single clear glass, doing a vanish and load quickly. It looks like an instant appearence. If any one thinks they've got it, you then proceed to chop the cup with a gimmick under a paper cover disproving their theory. After a couple of goes shove in a large load and while they're goggling at that, it's excellent misdirection for the vanish of the glass a la the old salt shaker through the table routine where you smash the paper flat on the table. Non of it's particularly original but it's very effective dining table magic.

I thought P&T routine was excellent by the way.
Message: Posted by: Mesquita (Jan 5, 2005 08:44AM)
Can anyone tell me if the Cups And Balls by LATIMER on FISM 2003 are gimicked???
Are they special balls???
Will Latimer put his routine on the market???

That cups and balls was AMAZING!!!
And so BEAUTIFUL!!!
Message: Posted by: Werner G. Seitz (Jan 5, 2005 09:18AM)
I've not seen Latimers routine using clear glass, but many, many years back, the in Holland living, stage and close-up performer Phoa Yan Tiong did a such routine using clear glasscups.

It was great and solely based on misdircetion..beautiful work.
-
Unfortunately Phoa is now in his early 80s, had two strokes and isn't at all interested in magic anymore -strange as this might sound taking into consideration he all his life was a working pro with a very beautiful act..but that's life :(

PS. Some might remember Phoa for his creation of the cut and restored silk..the one using no gimmicks, where the silk really is cut and the restauration is a *fake*..quite a concept in magic , to fake the restauration and really do what you show and tell 'em..
I think, somehow this principle might not be fully explored yet..to *fake* the magic... :)

Do a search via google under his name and some amazing info might pop up re Phoa..he really was a great performer in his time!
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jan 6, 2005 12:19AM)
Phoa Yan Tiong has had a severe stroke, but Eddy Taytelbaum sees him often. He certainly was one of the great acts. I booked him as often as I could. He wrote three of four planned books, titled "The four seasons" Spring, Summer, Fall and Winter. I don't recall exact titles but they are priceless.

He was a Marshal Arts instructor in The Netherlands. I think he was originally from what was known as the "Dutch East Indies." (What would that be now?)
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 6, 2005 12:44AM)
That would probably be Indonesia and the surrounding area.

It was probably broken up into several different countries.
Message: Posted by: Werner G. Seitz (Jan 6, 2005 02:45AM)
[quote]
On 2005-01-06 01:19, Pete Biro wrote:
... I think he was originally from what was known as the "Dutch East Indies." (What would that be now?)
[/quote]I'm not sure, but Eddy is from Surinam...
BTW it was Eddy who told me a couple of weeks back, that Phoa totally lost all interest in magic, could hardly talk, aso. so he really is badly hit :(
Eddy himself too has probs with the earlier *OK* leg and doesn't get out very often, he gets in pain when walking... :(
Message: Posted by: Mesquita (Jan 6, 2005 07:24AM)
[quote]
On 2005-01-05 09:44, Mesquita wrote:
Can anyone tell me if the Cups And Balls by LASTIMER on FISM 2003 is gimicked???
Is it special balls????? Will Lastimer put your routine on the market?????
[/quote]

Please, can anyone answer my question? Thanks in advance!
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Jan 6, 2005 11:25AM)
Mesquita,
Perhaps the reason you didn't get an immediate answer is that it's been answered many times before. Jason Latimer's routine is his and not on the market... yet.

Whether it's gimmicked or not will be revealed when he chooses to sell it. I personally believe it's not gimmicked, but that Jason is taking advantage of a unique property of the cups.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Jan 6, 2005 09:09PM)
Did Penn and Teller ever publish their routine with the clear dixie cups? It would be interesting to read.
Message: Posted by: Mesquita (Jan 7, 2005 08:09AM)
Thanks Dave VanVranken!
Message: Posted by: richardl (Jan 7, 2005 07:00PM)
Is there at least a show video of the clear cups and balls presentation?
Message: Posted by: bosque (Jun 28, 2005 12:25AM)
Jeffrey Campell's Crystal Cups cups and balls routine is killer. I hesitate to recommend it only because I use a variation of it myself and sometimes its hard to share. I first do a 2 cup routine with copper cups (nothing unique there) then finish off with Crystal Cups. I won't mention this again unless asked. Its too good...
Message: Posted by: Vandy Grift (Jun 28, 2005 09:54AM)
Where are you from bosque? I know Jeffery but I don't do cups and balls. I have seen the manuscript. Bill Palmer posted on the first page of this thread that Mr Campbells' C&B is totally different from Jason Latimers. Jeffery says this isn't really the case. That they are actually very similar. Like I said, I wouldn't know because I don't do C&B. Nice to see someone mention his manuscript though. (You too Jailhouse Jonny)

Vandy
Message: Posted by: Joggins (Jul 11, 2005 07:12PM)
Both Latimers and Campbells routine look very similar. Especially the penetration the balls through the cups. Very interesting.
Didn't Latimers card trick in the genii issue with him on the cover, turn out to be someone else's? Just asking.
Message: Posted by: Dan LeFay (Jul 12, 2005 10:59AM)
Mmmm, I was rather surprised by the last post. They look similar?
I have the booklet of Jeffrey Campbell here before me. There is a two (clear cup) routine and a "crystal chop-cup" routine in it. I have seen Jason's routine at least 3 times live and have a (shortened) version on video.
If Cambell's and Latimer's versions are alike, so are Vernon's and Wonder's. Or Ramsay's and Ammar's...

I have to admit that after seeing Jason's routine more than once, most of it's MO remains abracadabra for me. Clever stuff, very clever!

Oh, and off-topic, Bill is right again. Indonesia was a colony of the Netherlands untill the late forties. It was called in that time the Dutch East Indies. Both my parents were born there and travelled back to Holland when Indonesia became independent in the late forties. (If you look at my avatar you see someone who is half indonesian/half Dutch). I believe Phoa has the same roots although he also must have some chinese blood.
And from what I know he was teaching Tai Chi here in Holland. I was never so lucky to meet the man in person though.
Message: Posted by: Werner G. Seitz (Jul 12, 2005 11:10AM)
[quote]
On 2005-07-12 11:59, Dan LeFay wrote:
I have to admit that after seeing Jason's routine more than once, most of it's MO remains abracadabra for me. Clever stuff, very clever!
[/quote]Makes me curious..I have to admit I never saw a performance of Jason Latimer, but all I hear is praise...
Hmm, maybe he makes it to FISM 2006 in Stockholm.. :)
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jul 12, 2005 12:41PM)
I've seen Latimer's routine maybe a dozen times and I took photos of him for the Genii article as well as for his own use... and I do not know the M.O. of his cups. I have the Crystal Cups mss. and see little of the same. There may be some individual bits that are similar but the construction is quite different.
Message: Posted by: Latig0 (Jul 24, 2005 04:55PM)
I saw Latimer's routine many times an I found it quite disapointing. Either his routine really sucks or I have not understood anything about magic after all these years.
I really don't know how he made it in the Netherlands.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jul 24, 2005 07:10PM)
[quote]
On 2005-07-24 17:55, Latig0 wrote:
I saw Latimer's routine many times ...I really don't know how he made it in the Netherlands. [/quote]

What specically did you feel was awkward, unmagical or simply pointless?
Message: Posted by: rawdawg (Jul 24, 2005 08:09PM)
I've seen Jason do his C&B in the Close up Room at the Castle. It was very magical looking to me. With a slight movement of the cups, balls clearly seen inside one cup will visually disappear and reappear inside another. The only downer to me was in the presentation. He introduced the trick as being his proudest acheivement in Magic so far. (Fine) That the effect in question vaulted him to the Highest honors in Magic. (Fine too) That he would like to share it with the audience. (Perfect) Jason then performed the effect with exposition type patter. "I put the ball over here....and it goes over there..." At times, he appeared to be jazzing and in my opinion, treaded very close to being smug and or cocky. I remember wishing he had some kind of something to go along with that visually stunning routine.

In Jason's defense, the show in question was a late night add on and it is possible Jason was indeed "Jazzing" along, being playful and taking some chances.

As an aside, I'd really like to see Suzanne's final load appear in one of Jason's cups, though...
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jul 25, 2005 01:47PM)
Suzanne's final load is, in fact, Al Schneider's. And Jason, not taking from others, prefers his own finale.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jul 28, 2005 01:06AM)
I saw Jason Latimer do his routine at the Magic Circle Centenary. We spoke at length about it.

I also noticed a few things about it which I will not go into at all, because it would not be ethical for me to do so. I can say this: although there are a couple of places in the routine in which a principle that is also used in the Campbell book may appear to be used, the routine is purely Jason's. There is much more going on in that routine than most people even imagine.

He has no plans to release the routine in the immediate future. His plan is to wait until it is no longer his flagship routine. Then he will release the bulk of it.

One reason that he will not release the entire routine is that the routine changes from performance to performance.
Message: Posted by: Latig0 (Jul 28, 2005 06:00PM)
[quote]
On 2005-07-24 20:10, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
[quote]
On 2005-07-24 17:55, Latig0 wrote:
I saw Latimer's routine many times ...I really don't know how he made it in the Netherlands. [/quote]

What specically did you feel was awkward, unmagical or simply pointless?
[/quote]

His body language was really messy. All sorts of unnecesary limb movements and face contortions which would only add to the reigning confusion. I though the climax was not that strong either.
He hardly fooled me. It was so messy. All I remember is this guy making weird faces and moving some huge transparet glasses from one place to another. No rythm, no smoothness at all, no magic.
The cups being transparent is a detail which only appeals to Magicians. I think lay audiences give a *** about that.
Take Michael Ammar's cups and balls. He may be quite a Vernonist but man, that's magic! Those final loads appearing at the end and the previous moves are really beautiful to watch! Take Williamson's or Tommy Wonder's. Both exquisite pieces of classy deception!
Again I think Latimer's act was lame.

[quote]
On 2005-07-28 02:06, Bill Palmer wrote:
He has no plans to release the routine in the immediate future.
[/quote]

That's fine with me...hehe :)
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jul 29, 2005 12:50AM)
Evidently you saw the routine when it was in a different state of development than it is now. There were no grimaces or funny faces. The movements were smooth and graceful. It moved a bit faster in a couple of places than I might have wanted it to, but it was very well done.

The glasses he used were only slightly taller than a Paul Fox cup, but the shape is more triangular, so this might make them appear to be larger in diameter.

He told me that he has more than one set of cups which he works with on a regular basis.
Message: Posted by: Shawn D (Jul 31, 2005 02:58PM)
I see Jason Latimer will be performing at the Magic CAslte at the end of August. I hope he does his cups and balls routine becasue I heard so much about it I am kind of jazzed to see it.I ussally go to the Caslte with non-magicians so I will be able to tell you if lay people give a **** about it.
Hope to see other Café memebrs there
Shawn D
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Aug 2, 2005 03:15AM)
Where is everyone seeing Jason do this routine.
I don't get it.

:(

I see nothing!!!
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 2, 2005 03:25AM)
Maybe it's the shades! :)
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Aug 2, 2005 11:47AM)
How about simply experimenting with a mirror glass and learning a few things? A bottomless glass is also a useful tool.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Aug 2, 2005 12:46PM)
That sounds absolutely nuts.
Message: Posted by: John Pendleton (Aug 7, 2005 12:29PM)
This is a general question really, and I'd like to hear the opinions of the frequent post-ers in this formum....

I have a few ideas about how to make a magical C&B with totally clear glass (polycarbonate) cups, and regular balls / loads.

Since I've never read a published routine, seen anyone perform a Clear C&B is it unethical for me to pursue my ideas? If my ideas lead elsewhere I guess that's OK - but what would the situation be if I perfected a principle worthy of marketing? How would I know if JL et.al. had used "my" method first?

I know these issues have there own forum (which you should feel free to point me to) but I specifically have thoughts about making clear cups that don't expose.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 7, 2005 12:36PM)
Jason Latimer is by no means the first person to perform the cups and balls with clear cups. There are several others.

As long as you are pursuing your own methods, I don't see a real conflict.

There are a limited number of ways of introducing a ball into a cup and extracting a ball from a cup, but there are probably more methods than most magicians are aware of.

I discussed a couple of them with Jason when I saw him in London. I had a method he was unaware of. In fact, it would not work at all with his cups. But it was a good one. It was something Lubor Fiedler came up with.

But here's the question -- do you think a clear cups and balls routine is more impressive to a layman than one with, say, three coffee cups?

Clearly, (pun intended) Jason's routine is geared toward people who judge magic contests.
Message: Posted by: John Pendleton (Aug 8, 2005 07:10AM)
I'm really glad you replied Bill. I love reading your posts, even when the content isn't relevant to me at the time....

Anyhow, to answer your question, none of the methods I'm thinking of need a special loading / stealing move. Only one (using polarised filters) needs a special type of load.

In all cases the load is not immediately visible to the audience. The contents would become visible as the magician moved a wand or hand next to the cup, or slid the cup a little. This would cause a load to appear inside a cup that was not lifted. Which I think would appear quite magical - but I have to prototype before seeing how each method handled.

I've even considered using IT and a pole-switching electro-magnetic pad with some methods, so the magician will not need to touch the cup at all to make the load appear / disappear.

As always, the most promising methods are the simplest.

Everything I'm thinking of is gimmiked / faked to some extent. In the forum's opinion - how much less worthy does this make the pursuit of the ideas ?
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 8, 2005 07:58PM)
I can see some advantages and disadvantages to this method.

All's fair in love, war and magic!
Message: Posted by: DWmagic (Aug 13, 2005 05:36AM)
The key to Penn and Teller's clear Cups and Balls routine is that there are two of them. They explained that they fooled just about everyone with their Cups and Balls routine just by passing the balls between them. They also said the reason why it worked is because people can imagine one magican practicing moves in front of a mirror, but they can't imagine two people practicing moves in front of a mirror. That, along with its amazing speed, made their cups and balls one of the best.
Message: Posted by: gdw (Aug 15, 2005 06:56PM)
[quote]Clearly, (pun intended) Jason's routine is geared toward people who judge magic contests.
[/quote]
Now, although I'm sure that it is, I don't believe at all that this makes it not geared, or even made for laymen. I thought that it was entirely so, just as how visual it all was. Truely astounding AND innovative, so it works both ways.
Message: Posted by: gdw (Aug 15, 2005 07:06PM)
I do a brief sequence, with one ball and one clear shot glass, which I also produce fron under a cup, in my routione, right before the ending. I lke it.

It's all done under the "making it simpler each time" type of plot.
Message: Posted by: Christopher Williams (Oct 16, 2005 03:55AM)
I love Latimers routine. It too have heard it will be released within the next couple of years, to which I am looking forward to, but if they are being made in conjunction with Joe Porper, expect to pay a lot. I do know quite a bit about the routine, like he uses sponge balls, not solid balls, their is quite a bit of lapping, and he does use a S****a gimmick to vanish 1 of the balls. His cups are very cleverly made as well, and I would love to own a set
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Oct 17, 2005 12:07AM)
Saying if Joe Porper makes the cups would mean they will be expensive isn't fair. No matter who makes these cups they will be expensive. One, they are totally custom made and two the creator deserves a lot of money for his creation.
Message: Posted by: Christopher Williams (Oct 17, 2005 02:10AM)
This is true Pete, I was making the point as someone said Joe Porper will be making them, and Joe does make the best magic props in my eyes, I have a lot of his work and use it, I was merely pointing that fact out. You will be paying for the quality. Joes work is some of the best around, but also some of the most expensive, but I didn't say that was a problem.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Oct 17, 2005 11:02AM)
Right... today's mass produced and imports are fine for hobby and beginners, but when you really get into doing top class stuff, you want props that reflect that look and feel and will hold up to heavy use.
Message: Posted by: Christopher Williams (Oct 17, 2005 12:21PM)
Too true, and I agree with you. I didn't dispute that fact, I love Joes work, and for a working pro like myself, I would buy them and use them. But for other users, I was pointing out the fact that Joes amzing products don't come cheap, glad we could sort that out
Message: Posted by: halejs (Oct 15, 2006 03:42PM)
FYI, here are some places online where you can see videos of Latimer performing. Kudos to him.

http://www.videosift.com/story.php?id=1449&PHPSESSID=057502aa5ddcef669b9a15c50f6cf66a

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/50567/jason_latimer_magic/

http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=16924
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 17, 2006 12:37AM)
Thanks for the links, halejs. I really enjoyed his sleights.
Message: Posted by: mandrax (Feb 7, 2018 05:59PM)
[quote]On Oct 16, 2005, Christopher Williams wrote:
I love Latimers routine. It too have heard it will be released within the next couple of years, to which I am looking forward to, but if they are being made in conjunction with Joe Porper, expect to pay a lot. I do know quite a bit about the routine, like he uses sponge balls, not solid balls, their is quite a bit of lapping, and he does use a S****a gimmick to vanish 1 of the balls. His cups are very cleverly made as well, and I would love to own a set [/quote]

More than 12 years after this post. He has still not marketed his amazing routine and cups. Do you think he will do one day?
Message: Posted by: EasyK (Mar 23, 2018 08:16PM)
The P&T clear cups and balls routine was a piece of art! Loved it.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Mar 24, 2018 04:37PM)
The P&T routine exploits an idea that can be applied more quietly. Modal misd***.
Message: Posted by: TomB (Aug 17, 2019 01:54PM)
Anyone that supports the P and T clear Cups and Balls and then cries foul for the masked magician or a youtuber giving away a secret is a hypocrite. P and T are the bad boys of magic for a good reason, and should be shunned by all magicians that joined and SAM or IBM.

Jason Latimer has a wonderful Cups and Balls routine. It has notes of being better than any routine created in the last 100 years. He does make dumb faces, and his facial expressions take away from his brilliant routine, where I never even see a cup tilt. Since we do not technically know how it's done, it is quite magical. We do know that he used inattentional blindness. I would suspect the trick needs a gimmicked cup that was created just for this trick. Hopefully some day he releases his routine. I love that he looks at science and magic and makes people wonder.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Oct 13, 2019 01:50AM)
Personally, I like Kent Gunn's routine better than almost anyone else's. I stood immediately at his left during the WMS in 2009 and watched him perform the routine at least a dozen times. Never caught a move or "tell."