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Topic: Vernet Classic TT
Message: Posted by: will lane (Sep 14, 2018 01:04PM)
I bought a Vernet Classic TT (hard) after researching around for the "standard" TT. I really liked that the color seemed to match my skin color more accurately compared to the TT I did have which was much more red-toned. Yes, the audience isn't ever supposed to get a good look at the TT, but spending a few bucks on a more "accurate" TT helps me with confidence in performance.

When I got it, I really liked the color in natural light (sunlight). In artificial light, like in my house where the light is yellowish, it takes on a greyish hue. My other TT looks better in the artificial light in my house. But outside/in less colored lighting, the Vernet looks great. The Vernet also fits really well and has a great amount of room compared to my other TT.

Something I didn't expect is the seam on the Vernet. Again, the audience will not notice it in a good performance but not having a seam helps with confidence. I was able to blend the seam all the way around the TT using a slightly rough fabric- car upholstery, in fact. It was quite a silly moment but I just rubbed the seams against the upholstery for a while and the seam melded together.

Most important is to get the seam on the tip blended, as that is the most exposed part of a TT. If you do this yourself, be sure not to use upholstery or fabrics that may have a strong die/a darker color, as the die may come off onto the TT. I wouldn't use sandpaper, either. You aren't really shaving off material, just heating up the material enough so it evens out.

A last thing I didn't expect is how translucent the Vernet is. I like a blue silk compared to the typical red silk, but the blue silk gives the TT a darker hue. A little bit of red something in the tip of the TT helps. Still, a bill hidden ready for a switch can be seen if you're looking for it.

Again, most of these issues are cosmetic and they don't really matter if you are doing a good performance. But hey, extra confidence is always great. If you need a lo-fi TT that looks great out the box, I would be hesitant with the Vernet. You have to do a little work. I don't really want to go the hyper-realistic TT route, I don't know why. I kind of like the idea of such a lo-fi object that allows such a convincing effect. But hey, as cheap as TT's are, it wouldn't hurt to try a few and see what works best.

The Vernet still does look the best and feel the best out of the TT's I have. If you don't care about the seam and translucency, it's a great buy. And again, just remember that the looks don't really matter. I just like to be able to fool myself while I'm fooling the audience.
Message: Posted by: will lane (Sep 16, 2018 04:19PM)
Well, I did a silk appearance/vanish a few times today to some friends with the Vernet. I thought I performed it well enough so that "they wouldn't see it even if they knew to look for it" but I don't think it worked. I think the Vernet is just too transparent. TT's don't have to be exact but the tip color is very yellow compared to my more pale pink skin. I was in some harsh lighting too. Maybe I just didn't perform it well enough. But I've done the trick with my other TT and it seemed to go well all the time (unless [b]I[/b] botched it).

I guess for a typical red silk it wouldn't matter. But I like a dark blue silk, so it shows through.

The other TT is called "Morris" ( https://smhttp-ssl-42830.nexcesscdn.net/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/215x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/t/h/thumb-tip-morris.jpg ) and the tip color is much closer to my own and it is much less transparent. Although I liked the feel of the Vernet better, I'll keep using this Morris TT until I get a chance to physically try some other ones.
Message: Posted by: Dan Ford (Sep 18, 2018 10:51AM)
You could coat the inside with a paint that would match your skin color. Might help?
Message: Posted by: will lane (Sep 18, 2018 11:57AM)
[quote]On Sep 18, 2018, Dan Ford wrote:
You could coat the inside with a paint that would match your skin color. Might help? [/quote]I thought about that. I used a red sharpie to give the Vernet some pinkish color in the inside. The problem is that the plastic's thickness isn't uniform throughout, so some spots would shine a deeper red/pink than others. It looked goofy.

I've ordered the HD TT by Alan Wong. We'll see how it turns out. I guess I have a freer handling which requires possibly a more realistic tip.
Message: Posted by: Dan Ford (Sep 18, 2018 09:28PM)
Have you thought about painting the outside of the tt? You can get acrylic paints and mix your own color with a combination of light brown, white and red. Use small amounts of each as you find your color of skin tone. I have done this, so I know it works. Use an eye dropper and count your drops for a recipe for future.
Message: Posted by: will lane (Sep 18, 2018 11:07PM)
That's a good idea. If the HD TT doesn't really work well, I'll take that route. Does the acrylic paint chip/wear over time?
Message: Posted by: Dan Ford (Sep 19, 2018 10:09AM)
Spray the acrylic paint with a flat clear spray like Tester's Dullcote or matte finish clear spray. This will protect it. You can get these at your hardware or hobby shop.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Oct 1, 2018 03:19AM)
When Vernets first were available (early '70s) I used the (now "standard" routine of production, vanish, reproduction)for a season (+/- 400 shows). I NEVER had ANY problem with the color of the TT!

I ALWAYS used a "warm colored" silk! (RED, ORANGE, YELLOW. (NEVER "COLD COLORS -- GREEN, BLUE )

It appears to me that you are using silk colors that YOU LIKE. ---That's DUMB!

After WWII, Harris Solomon was traveling in Egypt. In a little village, he watched an old (!!!) street magician doing cups & balls. The old man was of African descent. His skin was BLACK. Harris invited the magician to have some lunch. After lunch, Harris did the then standard bit of vanishing a lit cigarette in a handkerchief, using a metal TT, which was THE ONLY TT, then. The old magician was AMAZED. (He knew only the tricks that had been handed down to him by his father.) Harris, knowing that the old timer, would never have the opportunity to buy a TT, gave it to the old guy, whose eyes lit up!



End of sermon.
Message: Posted by: will lane (Oct 1, 2018 09:27AM)
[quote]On Oct 1, 2018, Dick Oslund wrote:

End of sermon. [/quote]Thanks for the info. Personally, I would just rather have a TT that matches my skin well to build confidence. I'm not one of these great performers who could perform with brightly colored/shiny metal TT's. And since many lay-people know about TT's now, I think if you value the confidence a matching TT will give you, get it. It will allow for freer handling as well, possibly being more convincing. We don't need any more stress in our lives.

I hear a lot about well-experienced magicians using brightly colored/shiny metal TT's for performance/demonstration. I've never personally seen that handling to be so convinced. Sure it is possible, but how would a culture who [i]knows[/i] what to look for receive it? I'd like to see a video (probably privatized) of that kind of handling.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Oct 1, 2018 06:04PM)
To be a successful magician, one who can ENTERTAIN people (moppets, young teens, older teens, adults) one must have TALENT. -- and, also, GUTS!

Every TRICK has a weak point. A good magician must, using PROPS, TALENT, AND GUTS, develop a PRESENTATION for a TRICK, that ENTERTAINS people.

(Magic is NOT inherently ENTERTAINING!)

You and I have never met. I don't KNOW you. But, in reading your comments on a simple gimmick/feke (a TT) it's apparent to me at least, that you need to develop some GUTS! A nicer word would be CONFIDENCE.

If you are seriously hoping, or even planning, to be a magician, you will need to "work on THAT, along with all the other qualities. I suspect that no one has ever told you this.

A TT is not even a TRICK! It's just a specialized PROP, that a magician uses to PERFORM a TRICK.

To add a TRICK to one's act/show, THREE THINGS ARE NECESSARY!

1. Learn how the TRICK is DONE.

2. Learn how to DO it.

3. Learn how to do it, so that it ENTERTAINS people.

I made a living for 50 years, performing magic, from coast to coast, and, border to border. I was never "at liberty". Managers would call ME, to find out when I was available. I think that I know what I am talking about.

Most young people, if willing to learn the basic principles, and, having some basic talent, can acquire the GUTS, but it doesn't just "happen". Sophocles said it very well, two thousand years ago: "One learns by DOING the thing."

So! You must decide, whether you will settle for being able to "do" a few tricks, or be a MAGICIAN.
Message: Posted by: Bill Thompson (Oct 1, 2018 11:43PM)
Please listen to Dick, try to understand what he is trying to get across to you. Please pardon me, Dick... He is crusty, pedantic, blunt, and crotchety, but he is full of wisdom! Don't get all hung up on how he conveys his thoughts! Ponder what he has said and learn from it.
Message: Posted by: will lane (Oct 3, 2018 02:52PM)
I don't disagree with Dick Oslund. In fact he is quite right: I don't have much confidence. I would just prefer to have a TT that is less detectable for that extra boost of confidence.
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Oct 3, 2018 05:19PM)
While you are searching for the perfect color match try a couple of things that are confidence builders.

First learn to use the TT in non-standard ways (Salvano and Losander have good work on the TT. It doesn't stay on their thumbs for long) Both have DVDs with their handlings.

wear a TT in place all day while you work and play. But a bandaid around it near the opening (breaks up the continuity of the flesh color) make it a colorful bandaid that draws attention. People may glance at it but look away.

If you get comfortable with it and don't notice it then it will go unnoticed by others.

TT that is slightly darker is preferable to one that is lighter when trying to match your skin tone. It will appear as if it was in shadows.

Another trick that I got from a Ringling Brothers clown is to wear white gloves and glue a matching glove finger to your TT now it's white as is your hand.

Good luck matching your skin tone.
Message: Posted by: RMV (Oct 24, 2018 08:29PM)
My Vernet TT is 30 years old, so I’m not sure what they look like today. I have never had a confidence issue about seeing it. Wore mine for several minutes at a show last week. Forgot it was on and I opened a water bottle while it was on. Still no big deal. I remember some advice from Eric Mead at a lecture. “Believe in yourself and do it.” You can do this. Worry about the fun would be my advice.
Message: Posted by: gismo (Oct 25, 2018 06:29AM)
It is more important that the size fits well, the exact color doesn't matter
Message: Posted by: Dan Ford (Oct 29, 2018 02:27PM)
I am one of those guys Will, who likes the color to match my skin tone too, so you are not the only one in the world who thinks like you. I have been into magic for over 60 years and I guess I have a little OCD going when it comes to my props.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Oct 29, 2018 06:50PM)
Back in the mid '70s, my friend, the late J. B. BOBO, and, I were sitting in a "corner" of the hotel lobby, during the SAM convention in Chicago. After exchanging a few stories (we both had done a gezillion school shows on the road) J.B. said, "Have you seen this?" He did a simple bare hand" production and vanish of a small silk, and, it was GOOD! He was wearing just an open color short sleeved sport shirt, and, he had resorted to none of the methods with which I was familiar! I blinked, and said, "No! --THAT, is very nice!"

Then he showed me what was a relatively new gimmick/feke. It was a Vernet TT. I was familiar with metal TTs, I had bought one from Percy, when I was about 14. for 25 cents! I had mainly used it to vanish a lit cigarette "STUB" in a handkerchief. I had been on the road, in the Dakota, Montana, area for the entire school year, just closed, and there weren't any magic shops "out there", then. (There still "aint".) So, I hadn't seen a Vernet. We spent a half hour talking about the EFFECTS that the Vernet TT had made possible.

In the dealers room, I found a dealer "willing" to sell me one! I think he wanted two bucks. I bought two. (Professionals ALWAYS have a "back up" prop.)

I played with it for a week or two, and, that fall, I used the simple routine that J.B. had shown me for an opener. About 60 shows, and a month, later, I really realized how strong the EFFECT was! I used it for two seasons. I wrote up the routine and lines that I used, in my book. I've used it, also for walk a round, jobs, and, other casual situations. It has never failed!

Amusing incident: I was walking on with the loaded TT "installed appropriately" one morning, and, as I greeted the kids in an elementary school, the TT FELL OFF! I reached down (kept talking) and grabbed the TT. Still talking, I did the production, vanish, and reproductions of the little silk. The "oohs/ahhs" and, the laugh was just the same as it always had been, and, the applause came on cue, too!

Message: Posted by: HenryleTregetour (Dec 4, 2018 11:31AM)
"When Vernets first were available (early '70s) I used the (now "standard" routine of production, vanish, reproduction)for a season (+/- 400 shows). I NEVER had ANY problem with the color of the TT!

I ALWAYS used a "warm colored" silk! (RED, ORANGE, YELLOW. (NEVER "COLD COLORS -- GREEN, BLUE )

It appears to me that you are using silk colors that YOU LIKE. ---That's DUMB"

Thanks, Dick!

TT are one of the things that interest me a lot, especially since I am way late to the game and not particularly dexterous (any time there is cooler weather, my hands literally freeze!) Basically one sneaky sleight that doesn't require much in way of dexterity allows a person to do countless amazing feats.

Message: Posted by: HenryleTregetour (Dec 4, 2018 11:52AM)
Will wrote: "I don't disagree with Dick Oslund. In fact he is quite right: I don't have much confidence. I would just prefer to have a TT that is less detectable for that extra boost of confidence."

As a relative beginner myself, I completely understand.

He also wrote, "And since many lay-people know about TT's now, I think if you value the confidence a matching TT will give you, get it."

I have no arguments against your second point (in fact I very much feel that way myself), but I think the first point is not as true as many might believe. In fact, despite the secret-revealers on the internet, I would bet that relatively few people know about TTs, or for that, the modus operandi of most tricks. Basically, those in the know are magicians and the desconstructionists. Most people just don't have an interest in magic that would cause them to look at utube videos or watch TV programs that deconstruct tricks. Also, except for the very credulous, people have "always" known (at least my entire 55 years on earth) that magic feats are just "tricks". And they are not interested in putting in the effort--even if it is as simple as clicking a button--to find out the secret of the trick. On the other hand, the same people are delighted by well-done magic tricks.

Another thing is that even if a person watches a show, it is unlikely they will really remember the specifics of how tricks are done. They will know that there are gadgets, maybe they will even be able to identify a TT, but for people they tell, unless they have a strong interest in magic, it will be in one ear and out the other.

Henry (one of the gutless people lacking confidence--I really need to practice!)
Message: Posted by: HenryleTregetour (Dec 4, 2018 03:24PM)
One other thing about the TT.

People who are aware of the TT generally connect it to disappearing handkerchiefs. However, there are countless feats that can be performed using the TT.

Last night I was looking through some files and found a little book that my brother and his family gave me for Christmas. It is "101 tricks with TOP SECRET: the magicians secret weapon!" by Roman LePress from Trickmaster. Basically it has a brief but useful discussion on using the TT, then, as the title indicates, 101 briefly described tricks.

So, if you are concerned that people "know about" the TT, then use it for something unexpected.

Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Dec 4, 2018 05:27PM)
Well said, Henry! I haven't seen you on the Café in eons!
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Dec 4, 2018 05:29PM)
Will! I own the only double ended vernet in existence!
Message: Posted by: will lane (Dec 4, 2018 08:17PM)
[quote]On Dec 4, 2018, Dick Oslund wrote:
Will! I own the only double ended vernet in existence! [/quote]Isn't that just a dye tube? :lol:
Just a reply to some recent comments: A considerable amount of people that I have performed silk+TT work for before know something or another about these "fake thumbs". I've heard it said that "Even if they do know how it is done, if you perform it well enough people won't think they see it- adding to the illusion. They'll be looking for the TT and when they don't find it, because of your good performance, they'll be baffled".

There is a degree to which I think that is true. But I think there is also a degree to which I don't. I'm not really sure what side I lean towards. I don't think I perform it the best, but surely I'm not so awful as to be giving the audience a tutorial on silk+TT magic. Maybe I'm not good at all and I need to practice. Well, I do know I need practice, though.

The TT I've landed on for know is actually some random TT from China. I ordered a bunch of random TT's from China, and they didn't include any tracking info or branding. It has a reasonable size and matches my skin nicely in most light.
Message: Posted by: Julie (Dec 4, 2018 09:04PM)
It's sounds like it's time you looked into a finger tip and/or a sixth finger...

Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Dec 5, 2018 05:02AM)
Nope! It's a "double ended TT!

TTs are made in a machine that makes two at a time. Then they are cut in half to get two TTs.

I was helping Tom Ladshaw unpack several hundred, and found one that "missed" the 'cutter'!
Message: Posted by: Dan Ford (Dec 5, 2018 09:21AM)
Thumbs up Dick!!
Message: Posted by: HenryleTregetour (Dec 13, 2018 04:36PM)
Dick Oslund wrote: Well said, Henry! I haven't seen you on the Café in eons!

Yeah, I have been doing other things. It's a little more complicated than that--I was working on cup and balls, performed before a friendly (magician) audience, and got stuck, and only recently figured things out.

I have been a lot more music lately. Beyond the recorders, I did a lot of work on my lap harp, a bladder pipe, a double recorder, etc. In September I bought a hurdy-gurdy (!) and I've done some work on it. It's only been since the beginning of December since my mind has been able to focus on magic, and I am getting better at focusing on a few tricks rather than trying to grab at everything. Maybe I might even had a video in the near future.

More on target for Will Lane--I think I said it before, silks are the obvious combinations for TT, but there are so many other less obvious things that could be done. One of my favorites is disappearing and reappearing salt. Drop the silks (which I thought looked good) and try some of these others--that way you can gain confidence and later go back to the silks.

Just an idea.

Message: Posted by: Wx4usa (Jan 13, 2019 03:15PM)
It has been mentioned in this thread and I’ll mention it again, Will, I believe you’re doing exactly what I did and that’s overthinking it and I never progressed to decent handling until I wore it for an entire week 80% of the time. (While awake lol) switching between hands, palming, index finger, middle finger, using the cell phone, steering the car, shifting gears, shaking hands, cup of coffee, you name it, it was there. Got used to it and no one noticed it. Don’t worry about color it shouldn’t be seen. MM makes a set in a very light color but you know what, it doesn’t matter, no one should see it. Saw a guy from Asia on you tube with a home made paper TT looked horrible, but when he performed wow it was a knockout. Just watch your angles and practice moving, palming etc. next up try the electrical tape on the tip challenge and sit in front of your camera. Try the tape challenge and the one week challenge you won’t be disappointed. I do like to find a nice balance between tight and loose because a do a water from an empty mini solo cup with mine and the Vernet is perfect for me. I do the bill switch, silk vanish, salt vanish, cuts and restored headphones and water/mini solo cup trick a lot.
Message: Posted by: Riley (Mar 10, 2019 11:01AM)
When magicians worry about TT colour (we've all done it) I suggest some good teaching is needed. I was fortunate to have people like the late Ken Brooke and Patrick Page -especially Patrick Page -teach me how to handle the TT (king size and classic size Vernet) and the dye tube.

Both these great teachers are no longer with us. BUT buy Patrick Page's DVD on the TT. This will teach you to handle it properly and I promise you it is a real eye opener. Gary Darwin's three DVD set is also full of good stuff. Soon, you will ALWAYS carry one in your pocket.

None of my TT's match my skin tone. Confidence comes by learning how to use it correctly. Re-read Dick Oslund's post on the subject. Enjoy it, it is one of the greatest tools for the magician.
Message: Posted by: Wx4usa (Mar 26, 2019 06:06AM)
Here is a video of a vernet king size TT wrapped with black electrical tape. Its is huge on my hand and not a great color match. The TT shows very little. https://youtu.be/J2_sUK7Yab0