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Topic: Trabucco Holdout
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 5, 2004 02:02PM)
Elmwood magic has released this. It sounds very interesting without the high cost of other holdouts:

http://www.elmwoodmagic.com/?tagent=elm-2244&key=2062&html=full
________________
Recently released at the prestigious 4F Convention to rave reviews - now the TRABUCCO HOLDOUT can be yours for this special introductory price...and ONLY from Elmwood Magic.

Victor Trabucco has combined his forty years of magic experience with his desire to create truly magical moments for his audience to produce a device that will take your magic to a whole new level.

The TRABUCCO HOLDOUT is unlike any traditional holdout available. There is no lengthy learning curve in mastering the TRABUCCO HOLDOUT...most magicians will be using it within minutes of setting it up. More importantly, this powerful yet simple tool, works from each hand and uses only the most natural of gestures.

Once mastered, it can be used at any moment. Your audience will be stunned as coins vanish, appear, and change at your fingertips. Your hands can be shown empty before, during, and after each routine and there are no bad angles. But it doesn't end there...

The TRABUCCO HOLDOUT can be used for a wide variety of effects and items. From the kit you'll discover the secrets to:

A two-coin transposition that is so clean it's scary
A visual nail bend in which the spectator can even keep the nail
A matchbook will vanish in a misty haze of smoke
A solid nut will join back on to a bolt under the most impossible of conditions
And MUCH More
The kit includes: 2 Trabucco Holdouts - one for each side of your body, an instructional DVD in which Victor himself teaches each routine in detail, Victor also covers the complete installation of the holdout as well as how to apply the holdout to everything from silk effects to mentalism, you'll also receive all of the necessary component parts to begin using your holdout from the minute you've installed it.

Here's What the Pro's Are Saying..

"A great idea that can be used with cards, coins and more. A must have for those that want to leave the spectators clueless." Bill Malone

"It was not until Victor tipped the Trabucco Holdout to me that I realized how badly he had fooled me with it. What a powerful tool." Tom Gagnon

"Your innovative holdout is ingenious, yet simple. The possibilities for mind-blowing magic are endless. Thank you for taking my magic in a new direction." Harrison J. Carroll

"Great Idea . . . very practical for a working professional. You fooled me not once, but again and again!" Paul Gertner

"It looks like real magic!" Dan Block

"Vic's ideas and handlings of his TRABUCCO HOLDOUT have created some wonderfully magical experiences in a very disarming manner." Herb Zarrow

"With Vic's hold-out, there are no quick movements or body swings and no sleeving. Coins may be vanished and retrieved at will - and the device is portable from one coat to another. It is ingenious and should prove to be a large seller." Paul Cummins

"My other holdouts are in a drawer. They're just too messy to deal with. Vic's holdout is in my coat all the time. My sleeves are rolled up and yet objects are appearing from nowhere and disappearing without a trace. There are no funny hand twitches or tossing motions. Vic's holdout won't end up in your drawer. This is something you will use, and use, and use" Mike Powers
Message: Posted by: Michele (May 5, 2004 02:16PM)
Can I use this Holdout when I'm sitting at the table ?

Thanks for your help.
Message: Posted by: Yuji (May 5, 2004 03:38PM)
How about this Trabucco holdout vs Bob Kohler Professional Holdout system ?
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 5, 2004 05:23PM)
Well, if it's "almost" as good, that's quite a savings
Message: Posted by: Chris S (May 5, 2004 05:43PM)
Yuji, you just can't make that comparison. Judge each one on its merits and weigh those merits up against the vastly different costs - only you can decide whether that evaluation leaves one ahead of the other.
Message: Posted by: Dan Watkins (May 5, 2004 06:39PM)
Some excerpts the FAQ on the elmwood magic site:

[b]"The TRABUCCO HOLDOUT uses no pulls, wires, strings, or elastics. Once installed it is always ready to uses and requires no reset at all.

the Holdout does not use sleeves in ANY way"[/b]

This holdout is not even remotely related to a gravity one given those comments.

I am guessing it is some type of stationary holdout where you can put things and take things - like a secret pocket or clip or something just inside the jacket.

But that's just a guess from reading their FAQ - I really don't know for sure what it is.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (May 5, 2004 08:14PM)
I guess we need a review from MagicChis when he get it.

It seems it should not be called a holdout, if it is not a holdout.
Message: Posted by: Dan Watkins (May 5, 2004 08:36PM)
Well - a "holdout" in its most basic definition holds an item in secret until it is needed.

Using this definition even a clip worn on your belt to hold a billard ball or a magnet in your back pocket is a type of holdout.

Where its actually "held" how it delivers the item, how mechanical it is, etc. are all secondary characteristics that define the type of holdout.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (May 5, 2004 10:15PM)
Staying out of Webster's. I don't think custom terms used in an industry can be defined buy a general public dictionary. Many trades have there own definitions as do magic, computer, doctors, lawyers, etc. There is a term for this but I cannot think of it, dang.

A 'holdout' that has always been supplied to magicians and gamblers, did include a delivery system as well as a place to hold out the item secretly. Therefore, I do not think this new item qualifies as a holdout.

I guess it is okay to change definations, that way noone will know what the other is talking about. Makes for good communication.
Message: Posted by: poolmagic (May 5, 2004 10:47PM)
I have seen the Trabucco holdout in action. The most important thing to know is that it is very magical. One can produce and vanish items in a stunning manner. It is relatively easy to use and very clean. The product comes with a DVD that illustrates and explains a number of applications and I am sure more applications will follow. This is a real reputation builder. My guess is that the introductory price will rise once the word gets out on this product.
Message: Posted by: MagicCarisio (May 5, 2004 11:40PM)
Sounds fantastic...can't beat the price!
I'll be taking the plunge with a revue ASP.
Gerard
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 6, 2004 12:18AM)
I won't wait for a review-I TRUST elmwood and will report back!!!
Message: Posted by: MacGyver (May 6, 2004 03:07AM)
Well Mike Powers, who has the most lengthly blurb in the ad, is a member here on the boards.


Perhaps he can fill us in on some of the details, what makes this different from other holdouts and such, or give us a longer review before MagicChris gets his.


It says no sleeves, but that it must be put into a coat..... interesting.



As a side talk, how do you guys feel about utility items? How tightly guarded should the secret be?

Since it isn't an effect, do the normal rules of secrets come into play? I just hope MagicChris and others aren't paying for 2 huge PK magnets to stick in your jacket pockets that hold coins and such to your side.... heh.
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (May 6, 2004 08:12AM)
I've known Vic for twenty years and he not only a true gentleman, one of the top glass artists in the world and a great magician, but one of the nicest people in magic.

I have not personally seen Vic work his holdout but I heard nothing but rave reviews from those who saw it at FFFF. All of the magic I've ever seen Vic perform is flawless. He's one of the great underground close up workers from Buffalo in the Fechter/Gallo tradition. I can't imagine this release is anything less than great.

I was tipped what the method is. It is certainly a great tool that is well worth the investment.

Vic's concept actually can be used at the same time as a gravity holdout. Each complements the other, making both more powerful.
I'm sure that the Trabbuco Holdout will find it's way into your routines and not into your drawer!

Secrets are secrets...
Catagories are meaningless...
Message: Posted by: Paul Richards (May 6, 2004 11:46AM)
Bob:

You took the words right from my "typing fingers"! I will pass your kind words on to Vic.

I have been using the Trabucco Hold out for several months and I love the thing. BUT I would also be the first to say the Fitch/Kohler Holdout is VERY different from the Trabucco Holdout…comparing the two is like comparing "apples & oranges". I too could imagine someone using the two together with devastating results.

In regards to the keeping of secrets, I am always stunned by how many magicians treat them with so little respect. The Internet and message boards like this ARE not "hidden corners" of some secret magic gathering.

Bob, I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of secrets. I’m reminded of a quote, which I believe was from Winston Churchill who said, “When eagles are silent, parrots begin to jabber.” As magicians, we would all do well to decide which we would rather be.

Best Wishes,
Paul Richards
Message: Posted by: Michele (May 6, 2004 12:52PM)
Mr.Bob Kohler is a true gentleman.
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 6, 2004 02:21PM)
What a classy post from Bob. He's one in a million!!!

And Magi need to start claming up. We do more damage than the Masked Magician ever did!
Message: Posted by: magicmann (May 6, 2004 04:31PM)
The Trabucco Hold Out sounds great, I will wait to see the reviews
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 6, 2004 05:06PM)
I ordered from our Friends at Elmwood today and will report back. If Mike Powers likes it, it must be INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!
Message: Posted by: ftlum (May 10, 2004 06:58PM)
Okay, here's my review (good and bad):

For what it's worth, I found the Trabucco holdout to be an interesting utility device, though unfortunately it could not quite do what I had expected. While the device itself is not bad, some of the wording (hype) of the advertisement made me disappointed when I saw what could actually be accomplished. Overall, there's nothing really earth-shattering in the techniques, but it does allow for some nice, clean routines.

The advertisements, while technically correct, are a little misleading-- coins don't exactly "change at your fingertips" the way you'd think based on the advertising, and as to "a matchbook will vanish in a misty haze of smoke," well, that also is not what I had envisioned (I was thinking "open your hand and it's gone, leaving just smoke"). I think that if these sort of statemtents were not made, I'd have been more pleased with my purchase.

That being said, I thought the body motions that are used were quite graceful. This is the holdout's advantage over other methods of ditching / retrieving things. The motions are smooth and impreceptable, though you do need to position yourself in a certain way (as with any device). The buyer should also know that there are some limitations to what you can hold out-- things can't be very bulky, and you may have to gimmick some of your objects to get them to work (sorry, I can't elaborate without giving away the secret).

The switches demonstrated were very, very good. Having a holdout on both sides really makes the switching actions natural.

Regarding comparison to the Fitch-Kohler holdout, it's not like comparing apples to oranges. It's more like comparing apples to hotdogs (not that I'd say which is the hotdog :) ). You just can't compare the two... except, perhaps to say that the FK holdout is much more versatile. And, as Bob mentioned, the two could be used together, though I'm not sure doing so would really offer one that much of an advantage.


-- Frank
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 10, 2004 08:13PM)
Mine should be here anyday. I'll very excited about this because of the endorsements of people I respect ( Bill Malone, Mike Powers, Bob Kholer, etc. ).
Message: Posted by: truthteller (May 10, 2004 08:51PM)
For the record, re: Webster's definitions et. al, even in the magic literature a holdout does not necessarily refer to a delivery system. If you look at old gambling catalogs you will find "holdouts" that do nothing more than "hold."
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 11, 2004 10:02AM)
I got it last night. It looks very clever.

The package say accessories are available at Elmwood. Maybe Paul can comment on that.
Message: Posted by: Enigmo (May 11, 2004 06:58PM)
I have seen and used both the F/K holdout and the Trabucco holdout and while it is true that comparing both is like comparing apples and oranges/hotdogs, I will do my best.

Advantage of the Trabucco vs F/K :

Less expensive.
It can be used on both sides.
It can be used with your sleeves rolled up.
The hands work independently of each other even though their movements need to be well choregraphed.
No attachments to change.
More than one different types of objects can be held.
The Trabucco is silent.

Disadvantage of the Trabucco vs F/K

You need a coat or a vest. The F/K can be used with a shirt. I guess it's also theoretically possible with a Trabucco depending of the style you want to project.

Much less versatile. The objects must attract to a ma****.

It always requires the same hand movements. The F/K can be operated with a wider range of movements.

It's passive. With the F/K, the objects can be disappeared visually. With the Trabucco, the objects have to be supposedly "transferred" to the other hand and then ditched on the holdout. Interestingly I find the Trabucco requires a choreography very similar to sleeving.

This might be related to my body size/length, but I find that with the Trabucco, I need to button my coat for the holdout to be at the right height.

I find that for the Trabucco to be effective, the movements required need to be slower. Mr. Trabucco does this very well but it might not fit everyone's style. I guess that, for me, the F/K was more intuitive to learn.

Comparable points:

Both can be transferred to another coat fairly easily.
Both have good DVDs. The F/K has a lot more DVDs because it has more to cover due to the nature of the holdout and the versatility it brings. The F/K DVDs are more entertaining.

Conclusion:

Both if mastered will provide great value. I am probably going to adopt half the Trabucco on my left side and the F/K on the right side...

I hope this helps.
Message: Posted by: truthteller (May 11, 2004 07:06PM)
Just to clarify, the FK holdout can be used on both sides of the performer's body.
Message: Posted by: Enigmo (May 11, 2004 07:13PM)
It's true; It can be installed on either side but it works on only one side at a time...
Message: Posted by: truthteller (May 11, 2004 07:33PM)
Yes, exactly. The first post made it seem like it was side dependant. Just wanted to clear that up. Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 11, 2004 08:23PM)
Enigmo said it better than I could. Thanks!!!

The Trabucco DVD is excellent and very clear in instructions.

I use '64 silver coins in my work. They don't have those available yet, so I "think" they jumped the gun on this project. Anyone else???

Here’s the problem I have:

You can’t do the routines on the DVD. He uses a Copper/Silver routine and you don’t get that with the “coins” supplied. Paul, what gives???
Message: Posted by: Paul Richards (May 12, 2004 07:21AM)
I think a few points need to be clarified here…

I believe that MagicChris is overstating things when he says, “You can’t do the routines on the DVD.” Every special item that is covered on the main sections of the DVD is included with the product. There is a BONUS ROUTINE called “3AM Spellbound”, that uses a special coin that is not included. The purpose of including this routine was to demonstrate how a little creative thinking opens the door to other possibilities with the Holdout.

We do plan on making other coins and components available within the VERY near future. There was no “jumping the gun"...this project has been in the works for a long time.

We choose to hold back a bit on the components because we did not want to imply that you needed to buy all sorts of other items. The included effects are all VERY good and there is NO need to ever buy anything else unless you choose to.

Finally, part of the reason that we introduced the item the way we did was to get more input from users in the REAL world. I believe this is a tremendously versatile utility tool. As with any device of this nature…there will be a great deal of personalization and individual approaches. We look forward to receiving your input...although it would be helpful if it were directed it to us.
Best Wishes,
Paul Richards
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 12, 2004 11:39AM)
Paul,
I think you have a great effect here. But, I believe if you show a routine, bonus or not, that needs a special coin and that coin isn’t included in the kit and it’s not even available separately at the moment, then the project was released prematurely.

I realize you could have left the bonus routine off the DVD and avoided comment on it from purchasers.

If the ad had said “gimmicked coins included, I most likely would have investigated further before purchasing because I use silver coins, sun/moon coins, etc. in my work.

This is just my opinion. Obviously you have heavy weights that have endorsed the product as is, so my comments should be taken in that context.

Thanks for listening.

Chris
Message: Posted by: magicday (May 12, 2004 03:13PM)
I think the disadvantage of the Trabucco holdout, it requires the same hand movements all the times.

It is not a necessary tool if your are good at sleight of hand.

Between Trabucco and F/K holdout, I will go for F/K.
The only reason I don't order F/K just because of the prices. I hope they can offer special discount to the working magicians at the near future. Cheers
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 12, 2004 04:00PM)
The F/K won't be discounted in order to keep the secret workings just that, a secret.
Message: Posted by: Larry Davidson (May 12, 2004 05:52PM)
You'll probably see an astronaut walk on the sun before you see the F/K holdout discounted, and I think that's a good thing, not only to help keep the workings secret, but because I'm sure that F & K have no desire to alienate good customers who have already purchased. If they do discount, I'll lease a big guy named Nunzio to pay them a visit. :baby:
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 12, 2004 07:45PM)
BOb protects secrets and this is one way to do it. I support him on this!!!
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (May 12, 2004 08:32PM)
Please not Nunzio again! Not a chance the price will decrease, if anything they will continue to rise due to rising costs...

Same as houses and cars...everything seems to go up except our show fees.

I still haven't seen the Trabucco Holdout but I've used similar principles and the main thing to consider is if the choreography can be worked into the problem you're trying to solve.

My opinion is always use the best possibel solution to solve the obstacle. Certain problems will need Vic's solution.

I do understand MagicChris' opinion that everything should have been included. But from a manufacturers point of view, it's always a tough decision to figure out exactly what to include in a release.

There's is always a fine line that must be drawn due to costs and how useful each additional feature will be to the majority of the users. Tough decision.

I do know both men are men of ingegrity and are trying very hard to bring everyone a useful tool.

By the way, Jamie Schoolcraft makes a dynamite m******* coin. I've been a huge fan of the invisible force created. Thought can generate many ways to implement this force into objects that audiences know cannot possible be m*********.

Just my two cents...
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 13, 2004 02:04AM)
I for one am THRILLED that I’m the only one in my town that performs Bob’s U3F!!!!!!

Vic and Elmwood have a great product. I’m not slamming them. I just feel it was released prematurely. As you can tell by Bob’s posts and release, he takes the proper time in developing and releasing effects.

Chris
Message: Posted by: M Pitcher (May 13, 2004 10:51AM)
Magic Day wrote :

"The only reason I don't order F/K just because of the prices. I hope they can offer special discount to the working magicians at the near future"

I wouldn't be happy when the price is going down , I payed the "full" price for the FK hold out , and I think , it is worth the price !
This would not be fair for the people who payed the "full" price .
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 13, 2004 09:42PM)
I hope Paul will address the points I brought up. For the price this is being offered at, the coin needed for 3AM Spellbound should have been included. At the very least, it should be available separately and it is not. It’s like getting a yoyo without the string.
Message: Posted by: Dan Watkins (May 13, 2004 11:15PM)
RE: special coins being sold seperately - can't you seperately buy them from one of the custom coin guys?
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (May 13, 2004 11:41PM)
[quote]
On 2004-05-12 08:21, Paul Richards wrote:
I think a few points need to be clarified here…

I believe that MagicChris is overstating things when he says, “You can’t do the routines on the DVD.” Every special item that is covered on the main sections of the DVD is included with the product. There is a BONUS ROUTINE called “3AM Spellbound”, that uses a special coin that is not included. The purpose of including this routine was to demonstrate how a little creative thinking opens the door to other possibilities with the Holdout.

We do plan on making other coins and components available within the VERY near future. There was no “jumping the gun"...this project has been in the works for a long time.

We choose to hold back a bit on the components because we did not want to imply that you needed to buy all sorts of other items. The included effects are all VERY good and there is NO need to ever buy anything else unless you choose to.

Finally, part of the reason that we introduced the item the way we did was to get more input from users in the REAL world. I believe this is a tremendously versatile utility tool. As with any device of this nature…there will be a great deal of personalization and individual approaches. We look forward to receiving your input...although it would be helpful if it were directed it to us. Feel free to send your emails to service@elmwoodmagic.com.

Best Wishes,
Paul Richards
http://www.elmwoodmagic.com
[/quote]

[quote]
On 2004-05-13 22:42, MagicChris wrote:
I hope Paul will address the points I brought up. For the price this is being offered at, the coin needed for 3AM Spellbound should have been included. At the very least, it should be available separately and it is not. It’s like getting a yoyo without the string.

[/quote]

I believe his post covered your question very clearly. He believes the price you paid is fair with the equipment you received. If you do not think it is fair, that is your opinion and you have a right to feel the way you do. I guess you would have been happier if he left off the 'Bonus' extra effect so you would not have known about it.

Sorry, no refunds one the secret is learned. :)
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 14, 2004 01:13AM)
Over a hundred dollars paid and you can accomplish the effect with easy sleight of hand?

From :Dan Watkins:
RE: special coins being sold separately -
can't you separately buy them from one of the custom coin guys?

Why should I have to search this out on my own?

I’m selling the effect for far les than I paid. I think Paul has done a disservice releasing prematurely this early and giving a poor excuse in this forum. I gave him a chance to correct the problem and he stopped replying.

Buyer beware!!

Chris
Message: Posted by: Paul Richards (May 14, 2004 08:14AM)
MagicChris:

When did I stop replying? As far as I can see I have answered everything you have asked.

Chris, if you have ANY questions or comments that I have not addressed...then PLEASE make ME aware of them.
Best Wishes,
Paul Richards
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 14, 2004 08:38AM)
The Trabucco Holdout is a quality item. I hope everyone realizes that. I read the add several times before buying and no where did I see “special coin(s) included”. That would have told me that my own coins would not work with it.

It says: “you'll also receive all of the necessary component parts to begin using your holdout from the minute you've installed it”.

This is true. But I think it should have said more. It wouldn’t have given away its deadly secret and the buyer would know more. I should have written Elmwood first and asked can I use my own coins. Paul runs a FANTASTIC operation and would have given me the answer.

There’s a bent nail effect that will spook your spectators. Fantastic thinking went into this!!!! ( Yes, the nail is included ;-)

Chris
Message: Posted by: sharpace (May 14, 2004 09:49AM)
[quote]
On 2004-05-14 02:13, MagicChris wrote:
Over a hundred dollars paid and you can accomplish the effect with easy sleight of hand?

MagicChris,

If you don't paid "Over a hundred dollars"you don't know what's inside/enclosed with the Trabucco Holdout package. You have paid for the secret.

Luckily I have seen what is enclosed without purchased it. Honestly it is not too bad, may be just not worth for what you paid. As you said all the routine can perform by easy sleight of hand.

As to the gimmick I have a new way to install it, I think this way much better than the one teached in the DVD.
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 14, 2004 10:30AM)
I think it's worth every penney. Everyone should own one. I just have an issue with the coin not being included or being available.
Message: Posted by: coinlover (May 14, 2004 12:31PM)
[quote]
On 2004-05-14 02:13, MagicChris wrote:
Over a hundred dollars paid and you can accomplish the effect with easy sleight of hand?

I?m selling the effect for far les than I paid. I think Paul has done a disservice releasing prematurely this early and giving a poor excuse in this forum. I gave him a chance to correct the problem and he stopped replying.

Buyer beware!!

Chris

[/quote]

If it worth every penney. Why you want to sell it and ask Buyer beware !! ??????
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 14, 2004 12:42PM)
I'm taking the high road. I can get the coin made. I just think it should have been included.
Message: Posted by: Rocky (May 14, 2004 01:44PM)
While at the recent Fechters get together I was involved in a conversation regarding holdouts...Basically, most of us felt that its a crime to charge anyone over 25 bucks for such an item. Think about it, how mant effects in your act are going to rely on this piece of apparatus? If you use a holdout for more than one effect,your overusing it...period.Should you decide that your act wont be a hit unless you add a routine that wont work without the aid of a holdout,check out Pete Biros design.Works like a charm, its simple to make and operates reliably.

All my love....Rocky
Message: Posted by: Duke (May 14, 2004 02:35PM)
I received mine yesterday and I am inspired. I could not stop any longer to play and practice thereby. It gives you so many possibilities. But the best for me is the following fact: I am a big fan of the "Perfect Holdout System". Now I have the possibility of combining these two Holdouts. It makes enormous fun with it to experiment. And by the way: I give a sh... on it whether this or that one was not supplied. Just use your fantasy, makes much more fun, than given routines and the appropriate accessories. Fantasy is everything in Magic. An enormous complement to Mr. Trabucco.
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 14, 2004 07:19PM)
Well, I for one would have liked the coin supplied. For $125, it should have.
Message: Posted by: Larry Davidson (May 14, 2004 08:02PM)
[quote]
On 2004-05-14 14:44, Rocky wrote:
...most of us felt that its a crime to charge anyone over 25 bucks for such an item...how mant effects in your act are going to rely on this piece of apparatus?
[/quote]

I'm glad a lot of magicians feel that way because it means everyone won't be doing what I am.
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 14, 2004 08:30PM)
I don't mind high prices if there is value there.
Message: Posted by: johngault (May 14, 2004 08:53PM)
I may have been one of the first guys in the country to get the Trabucco Holdout and I have been using it ever since. I can not stress how important it is to truly get this thing in use…the reactions I have received are simply wonderful. If you’re making any asessment without having truly worked with this for awhile, you’re doing both yourself and Mr Trabucco an injustice.

I’ve been using the two coin transpo and the nail bend mostly, both are squeaky clean. I also think using it for simply producing and vanishing coins is nothing short of "real" magic.

I’m wondering if some of the comments here are even being made by people who own it!?!?

“EASILY accomplished with sleight of hand?” WHAT? I’m no slouch at sleights and I’m not sure how you could do any of the effects as cleanly without some very difficult techniques.

The movements look graceful and natural. The technique for loading and unloading is direct and deceptive.

I’ve bought a lot of magic over the years and have paid twice as much for things as simple a dice cup! So for my vote - not only is the TH a great item, it’s under priced!
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 14, 2004 09:10PM)
You can do the magic with sleight of hand. If you can do a classic palm, spellbound moves and a ramsey subtley, you can perform magic without the holdout.

This is a great device and wonderful how they made it for each side ( left and right ). But, that darm 2 sided coin should be included OR be avaialable.

Understand: AVAILABLE. It's not and that's wrong. It was released prematurely.
Message: Posted by: johngault (May 14, 2004 09:19PM)
My point was about the "cleaness" of each effect. Of course you can do the basic effects with moves - but you'll never be as clean unless you're using much more sophisticated techniques than you listed.

You mentioned U3F - isn't one of the fundamental benefits to using that (as opposed to straight sleight of hand methods) the "cleaness" of the effect? Obviously we as magicians are willing to learn, master, and pay for products that make our magic look better. I believe the TH certainly does that.
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 15, 2004 12:21AM)
You can't compare U3F with this. It's like comparing apples and oranges!!!
Message: Posted by: Duke (May 15, 2004 07:42AM)
Only4card,

I don't think you really understand what Johngault tries to explain. Slight of hands is very beautiful, but you are afterwards not really clean in most cases. I also think that it is important to keep the movements and the action as simple as possible. It does not make any sense to nearly break the fingers,if you can come with simplicity to the goal. The spectator does not interested, what difficult sleights the performer has learned. Sometimes I have the feeling that certain people much rather loves to show what madly fast hands they have, instead of leading the folks in to a magic dream.
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 15, 2004 08:32AM)
The DVD shows Mr. Trabucco performing many effects and how powerful the holdout is. He's a gifted Magician, that's for sure!
Message: Posted by: mike gallo (May 17, 2004 10:01PM)
I just have an issue with the coin not being included or being available

But you don't have issues with books like Roth's where the props are not included?

Mike
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 17, 2004 11:08PM)
[quote]
On 2004-05-17 23:01, mike gallo wrote:
I just have an issue with the coin not being included or being available

But you don't have issues with books like Roth's where the props are not included?

Mike
[/quote]

Mike, the coins the Roth book mentions are available. The coin used in the Elmwood product release is not available. I believe the DVD discusses the coin has to be just right in order to release it. If you get it made, it may not release so easy. That's why Elmwood should have had it available when they released this.

Mike, I don't think any coin routine is as powerful as coins through table with the Gallo Kicker!! Thanks for that!!!!

Chris
Message: Posted by: mike gallo (May 18, 2004 03:44PM)
Mike, the coins the Roth book mentions are available.

Yes, they are...but the planet, the rainbow, the salt shakers, the rubber stamp, the portable hole ect. etc. etc.....are not! And thanks for the kind words about the coins through table, I have lots of fun with that one.

Mike
Message: Posted by: Mike Powers (May 20, 2004 07:23AM)
I’m going to jump in here.

First of all I am a friend of Vic but have nothing to do with Elmwood and have no financial stake in this product. I have endorsed the product with the following quote and I stand behind it:

"My other holdouts are in a drawer. They're just too messy to deal with. Vic's holdout is in my coat all the time. My sleeves are rolled up and yet objects are appearing from nowhere and disappearing without a trace. There are no funny hand twitches or tossing motions. Vic's holdout won't end up in your drawer. This is something you will use, and use, and use" Mike Powers

I bought the “Invisible Hand” holdout at FFFF a few years back. The demonstrators were performing miracles and I had to have one. The line to buy this item was LONG. You didn’t get much for $50 but nonetheless I swore I’d use it. It never made its way into my jacket and I’ll bet very few who have bought it actually use it since it take a LOT of practice to do the miracles. I never committed myself to the practice required. It’s in my drawer.

Vic’s holdout made its way into my jacket immediately. With this holdout, you’ll be ULTRA CLEAN right away. It won’t take many hours of practice to master this item and you will find many uses beyond those given on the DVD. I bought one at the 52 Convention last year. I received only the holdout with no DVD and no extra items. I got to see Vic use the holdout in the real world on both laypeople and magicians (including myself). It’s GREAT and well worth $125 in its new incarnation with a DVD and special items.

Vic recently sent me the DVD. The one criticism I have of it is that it doesn’t give you the view of a real spectator. The panoramic view of the camera makes the action more visible. When you work for real people close up while standing, the action is totally invisible with no “tells.” If you turn slightly to the right or left when working with people, say at a table, there will be nothing to see at all. Coins (and other objects) will seem to come from nowhere and disappear totally. On the DVD there is a bit of a “tell” due to the camera’s panoramic view. This doesn’t happen in the real world if you just turn slightly at the proper times.

As far as the issue of premature release goes I don’t think anyone will be unhappy with his or her purchase. I look forward to the release of an accessory package. But meanwhile I am having loads of fun and am developing new ideas for its use. I hope Elmwood will create an area on their website for new ideas for this cool product.

A couple of final thoughts – The modus operandi of this holdout may become transparent due to ongoing discussions. Be aware that quite a bit of thinking and trial and error went into the design of this product. It’s not a simple matter to recreate this item from a vague idea of what it is or even directly when the item is in hand. I think $125 is a fair price given that you get a DVD as well two holdouts (one for each side) and several other items. I’d like to hear more comments from people who have this product, especially new ideas for its use (although this should probably be shared privately if the secret is not to be compromised).

Mike
Message: Posted by: Paul Richards (May 22, 2004 01:44PM)
Mike:

Thanks for the kind words...by the way, I was one of the guys in that line for the “Invisible Hand” and can certainly relate to your comments.

I’m glad you brought up the “DVD view” versus “real world view”. Believe it or not, we actually re-shot some scenes to give the more panoramic view so that NO ONE could accuse us of hiding the dirty work! We did this in an effort to be totally fair to the viewer. But I echo the sentiment that in the “real world” the technique is truly invisible.

I also plan on adding section for owners of the holdout to share their ideas and insights to our site. This area will be password protected and ONLY for owners of the Trabucco Holdout. I will keep you posted when it goes live. Thanks again!

Best Wishes,
Paul Richards
Message: Posted by: Review King (May 23, 2004 04:03PM)
Paul when will the add on items be available?

Chris
Message: Posted by: p.b.jones (May 25, 2004 02:50AM)
HI,
I have just recieved this a day or so ago and I must say I am very happy with my purchase

The holdouts are very easy to fit and move from jacket to jacket and with a little thought you can even fit them to a loose fitting tee shirt or sweat shirt (as only old guys tuck shirts into their trousers/pants over here in the UK) so you can work slevless and jacket less if you are so inclined or are at a party with friends.

the moves are very natural and I would reccommend anyone using the holdout to read "Leading with you head" by Gary Kurtz as it will help you a lot with picking up and dumping out of the hot zones.

I have already come up with a supurb nail bend which is far more direct and clean than the one supplied if the sugested forum gets off the ground I will post it there
Phillip
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (May 27, 2004 03:52PM)
Can this be used to vanish a key.
Message: Posted by: truthteller (May 27, 2004 05:10PM)
Can you do it on a boat?
Can you do it with a goat?
Message: Posted by: Paul Richards (May 28, 2004 09:04AM)
Yes, this can be used with most keys. Some would require a little "gaffing"...but that would be very easy to do.

Yes, on a boat.

Perhaps, with a goat...but the goat would definitely require a little "gaffing". :)

Best Wishes,
Paul Richards
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (May 28, 2004 11:07AM)
Thanks Paul. Sounds like a great way to do the final vanish in Archangel.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jun 6, 2004 06:49PM)
I haven't seen the add ons on Elmwood yet.
Message: Posted by: Randy (Jun 7, 2004 08:36PM)
MagicChris said:
"I haven't seen the add ons on Elmwood yet."
-----
They probably don't want to release them prematurely.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jun 7, 2004 10:40PM)
Paul wrote me a nice note saying they were going to be available soon.
Message: Posted by: Dan LeFay (Jun 17, 2004 05:48AM)
The THO is one of those things where you slap your head saying: why didn't I think of this...Very clever!
My creative juices are flowing.
Message: Posted by: Paul Richards (Jun 17, 2004 08:44AM)
Just a quick note to let users know that we have added a number of component items for the Trabucco Holdout to our site. You can get full information, by simply entering “Trabucco” into the search engine at our web site.

Best Wishes,
Paul Richards
Message: Posted by: Bobcape (Jun 17, 2004 11:05AM)
[quote]Just a quick note to let users know that we have added a number of component items for the Trabucco Holdout to our site. You can get full information, by simply entering “Trabucco” into the search engine at our web site.

Best Wishes,
Paul Richards[/quote]

Paul,
I went to your site and looked at the items now available and I'm quite interested. Is there any chance you might put together a "Pro Kit" that would include everything for a special price?

Thanks,
Bob
Message: Posted by: Paul Richards (Jun 17, 2004 01:51PM)
The reason we choose NOT to assemble them as a kit is that EVERYONE has asked for different combinations.

I will let you know, that when you purchase the Holdout itself it comes with a coupon that allows you to buy 3 component items at 20% off. We have not advertised that but, for the present time, it is included as a bonus in the box.

Best Wishes,
Paul Richards
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jun 17, 2004 08:18PM)
I sold mine.
Message: Posted by: ScottLeavitt (Jun 28, 2004 01:51PM)
Just received, and VERY happy with the design (he thought through some of the major issues I've had with props working on similar principle, and solved them!), construction, and all of the "props" (e.g., coins) it came with. Wonderful utility piece whose use is only limited by the magicians imagination.
Message: Posted by: paulsmagic (Jul 11, 2004 06:37AM)
TO: MAGIC CHRIS
I suggest you get a book about marketing. when you go to a car show, the manufacturer shows you a futuristic car that is not available YET. it wets your appetite.
the same is what you describe about the minor point about a coin not being available. you start by saying you don't have either holdouts you discuss because of the price, then in the same breath say that you want another coin for the effect. personally it doesn't sound like you bought either one or sold anything. you are just whining. this is a site to help magicians not a doctor's couch. if you have an issue with Paul Richards take it up with him personally. you are doing this site a disservice with your diatribe. stop already.
Message: Posted by: coinlover (Jul 11, 2004 08:05AM)
MagicChris sold his may be has his own reason. I really attracted by the ad. I will pm MagicChris for more details before ordering. But I found on Elmwood site the addon Chinese coin for 3am Spellbound is very ugly. It don't look like a chinese coin.
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Jul 11, 2004 09:58AM)
Honestly this sounds like a slight variation of the inexpensive accessory that Chazpro put out ten or 15 years ago (and still sells today). It is called the “bat”. It was a simple hold out device that you hooked on your belt. Two, one on each side would do the things that this is reported to do

The Bat is only $30.00 and at that price of the Trabucco you could buy 4 and put them at four different locations on your person. Then you can make some magic (using the special objects necessary)!


I wonder how different these two are?
Message: Posted by: Mike Powers (Jul 11, 2004 10:23AM)
The Trabucco hold out is MUCH better than what you describe with the Bat. It is far easier to use and more versitile.

Mike
Message: Posted by: kregg (Jul 28, 2004 10:14AM)
Hold-out shmold-out... I saw Bob Fitch do the coin bit (circa 1980's) and it was real magic!
I have yet to see a Kohler product poorly made. Pony up if you plan on doing magic the rest of your life and if you want to do real magic like Broadway Bob.
I'll get a Trabbuco, as well as an F/K... after all I don't own just one hammer.

Kregg
Message: Posted by: Review King (Aug 9, 2004 04:26AM)
[quote]
On 2004-07-11 07:37, paulsmagic wrote:
TO: MAGIC CHRIS
I suggest you get a book about marketing. when you go to a car show, the manufacturer shows you a futuristic car that is not available YET. it wets your appetite.
the same is what you describe about the minor point about a coin not being available. you start by saying you don't have either holdouts you discuss because of the price, then in the same breath say that you want another coin for the effect. personally it doesn't sound like you bought either one or sold anything. you are just whining. this is a site to help magicians not a doctor's couch. if you have an issue with Paul Richards take it up with him personally. you are doing this site a disservice with your diatribe. stop already.
[/quote]

What does a futuristic car have to do with this? If I bought the car and found out it runs, but the tires aren't available yet, then it's INCOMPLETE!

Diatribe? ohhh Funk and Wagnall's 30 days to a better vocabulary, eh? Do you have the Holdout? Doubtful.
Message: Posted by: Jim Stan Magic Man (Aug 9, 2004 06:22PM)
I love the Trabucco Holdout. It has many possiblities. I am having a blast trying out different combinations of methods. I have been working on some different routines including the Trabucco Holdout, topit and sleeving (not all in the same routine). Imagine the possible combinations!
One last thought. Bob Kohler has a great effect called the Black Envelope. That with a little work and the holdout....this will leave those 'in the know' without an explanation. Thanks to Bob, Paul and Vic.
Jim
Message: Posted by: Review King (Aug 9, 2004 11:27PM)
[quote]
On 2004-07-11 10:58, Harry Murphy wrote:
Honestly this sounds like a slight variation of the inexpensive accessory that Chazpro put out ten or 15 years ago (and still sells today). It is called the “bat”. It was a simple hold out device that you hooked on your belt. Two, one on each side would do the things that this is reported to do

The Bat is only $30.00 and at that price of the Trabucco you could buy 4 and put them at four different locations on your person. Then you can make some magic (using the special objects necessary)!


I wonder how different these two are?

[/quote]

Harry, after I sold my holdout I used my 2 bats just as you say.
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Aug 10, 2004 07:06PM)
I bought the TH and am very pleased with it. it's the little touches that let you know it's been thought through. I also own other holdouts and it is neither better nor worse.... just different.

It's funny to see U3F being mentioned on here. I have worked out a version 3F using the TH. It doesn't use the "usual gimmick", the coins can be examined and it all be done with sleeves rolled up. You start and finish clean.
Message: Posted by: patrick1515 (Aug 27, 2004 03:53PM)
Having attended the Magic Live seminar in Las Vegas I was able to watch Bob Fitch demonstrate their holdout and watch Paul Richards use the Trabucco holdout. Both are very well made and excellent for what they are...utility devices. You cannot compare the two systems. Overall, I am happy with my purchase of the Trabucco holdout. It perfectly fills my needs in two routines that I perform on a regular basis. I was able to set it up quickly (unlike the 3 week wait from the tailor for my top-it) it will help a performer "clean up" many rough spots using very natural gestures and movement. I recommend it to anyone who does walk around or table hopping. I do however have some minor complaints. Elmwood charges $125 for this system. The DVD was shot by Paul Richards, there are a number of times when Mr. Trabucco "flashes". Reshooting and/or editing is in order. Also take a page from Michael Ammar's formula, start off showing some effects, then take the viewer step by step through the process, installing, using it, tips on misdirection, then show the explainations. My biggest pet peave was shared by someone else, an English penny, and a chinese coin should have been included at this price.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 27, 2004 04:11PM)
[quote]
On 2004-05-18 16:44, mike gallo wrote:
Mike, the coins the Roth book mentions are available.

Yes, they are...but the planet, the rainbow, the salt shakers, the rubber stamp, the portable hole ect. etc. etc.....are not! And thanks for the kind words about the coins through table, I have lots of fun with that one.

Mike
[/quote]

What do you mean "they aren't available." You can make the portable hole out of felt. You can cut the rainbow out of cardboard, you can have the rubber stamp made. If all of these props were included with the book, the price would go through the roof.
Message: Posted by: mike gallo (Aug 27, 2004 08:54PM)
What do you mean "they aren't available." You can make the portable hole out of felt. You can cut the rainbow out of cardboard, you can have the rubber stamp made. If all of these props were included with the book, the price would go through the roof.

Bill, I was trying to make a point...there is a complaint about 1 coin not being available with the Trabucco Hold-out...why is it any different than say the Roth book which has many props unavailable with the book. Yes, I know you can get felt and make the portable hole...yes, I know you can get a couple little globe pencil sharpeners to make the planet...yes, I know you can get some colored plastic, some glue, some spray paint, and get a lot of dimes gold plated to make the rainbow....yes,I know you can get a lot of things to make up the effects in Davids book. I also know that you will have to do a lot of running around to get all this...I also know that if you make up every prop in this book...it will cost more than the book itself...hell, it will cost more for gas in your car alone ;)...so my point is...why complain about one little coin that will cost less than the hold-out itself...when you buy dozens of books and spend a lot more to make up the props! Afterall, this is a prop you are buying...not a magic kit!

Mike
Message: Posted by: Review King (Aug 27, 2004 09:25PM)
Look, they sold this holdout and put an effect on the DVD that could not be done with what you were given. And, it's explained that it takes a special way to make the coin, so you need them to supply it. And...it was not avaialble ( yet ).

Why put out a car with only 3 working doors? maybe wait until it's actually ready and then market it????
Message: Posted by: mike gallo (Aug 27, 2004 09:29PM)
Look, they sold this holdout and put an effect on the DVD that could not be done with what you were given. And, it's explained that it takes a special way to make the coin, so you need them to supply it. And...it was not avaialble ( yet ).

That applies to most any purchase you make in magic...you are buying secrets...it's up to you to get the tools!

Mike
Message: Posted by: Review King (Aug 28, 2004 09:52PM)
Mike, we'll have to agree to disagree, then.

I feel they released this too early. I was ok with the coin not being in the kit, but not ok with it not being available.

I sold it and glad I did.

Besides, the advertising says coins appear and vanish at your fingertips. This is not so.
Message: Posted by: Dan Watkins (Sep 3, 2004 08:02PM)
Just being ornery here, but it can appear and vanish at your fingertips - as long as your fingertips are down at your side concealed from view :) So the advertisement is not wrong.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Sep 4, 2004 12:08AM)
Dan, good point. That's why my new holdout has the same advertising claims, but you do have to travel to a different town for the routine to look good.
Message: Posted by: Glenn Watson (Sep 4, 2004 10:12PM)
Why does this remind me of the predator wallet? Is it black on the web site instead of brown?
Did this start out in praise of elmwood only to end in an unhappy customer?
Will Paul also stop posting as did Mr.Wilson?

Can't someone help me, There seems to be a repeating theme? But what is the common thread?
Message: Posted by: Review King (Sep 4, 2004 10:34PM)
Well, if things are advertised one way, and show up another.....

I doubt anyone is listening to just me on any subject. There must be mutiple buyers voicing complaints/opinions. No?
Message: Posted by: ftlum (Sep 5, 2004 05:28PM)
I agree with you, MagicChris. I really felt misled by the advertising. The ability to vanish things at the fingertips and with a puff of smoke was very misrepresented, IMHO. Had they not made such statements, I would have felt a lot better about my purchase.

That's not to say this holdout is a bad product... but truth in advertising would have led me to trust the company on furture purchases. Now, I'll be very cautious before buying any "exclusive" products from them.

-- Frank
Message: Posted by: jackleu (Sep 10, 2004 08:28AM)
I just recieved my TH today
I think it is excellent for doing street magic
but I am a bit worry about the dirty moment will be noticed....it is a bit suspicious to me when I first see the video before opening the product...
I just know that is something happened at "that" moment......(many people said it is so nature..but I am not quite agree)
I think I need to practice more on misdirection(also sleight of hand)

I am very satisfy with the accessories...so many~~~~
but I found the "3 O" seems a bit difficult to unload...it's too tight........anyone else with this problem?what to do with it?

finally.....the estimate shipping fee is 7.99 but turn out to be $25 -_-!
(they use the extremely urgent)
(i am not unhappy with that.i am happy to get it so fast... just to let you guys know and pay attention if you want cheaper mailing service
:)
Message: Posted by: Jim Stan Magic Man (Sep 11, 2004 10:00AM)
I think the use of the TH is much more effective in a surrounded condition. I used it a our last club meeting and no one had any clue as to the method. Audience managemnt is the key to using the TH, much like a topit. I am working on a routine using the TH, topit and sleeving. It is a five phase routine. Jackleu, I hope you enjoy the TH.
Regards,
Jim
Message: Posted by: Review King (Sep 11, 2004 10:43AM)
[quote]
On 2004-09-05 18:28, Frank L. wrote:
I agree with you, MagicChris. I really felt misled by the advertising. The ability to vanish things at the fingertips and with a puff of smoke was very misrepresented, IMHO. Had they not made such statements, I would have felt a lot better about my purchase.

That's not to say this holdout is a bad product... but truth in advertising would have led me to trust the company on furture purchases. Now, I'll be very cautious before buying any "exclusive" products from them.

-- Frank
[/quote]

No online video, either. If there was, you would have not seen coins vanishing at the fingertips.
Message: Posted by: Paul Richards (Sep 11, 2004 11:50AM)
There’s no video because I felt there was no way to capture the authentic live experience of the device in use. I use the device on a regular basis and I can honestly say that real people believe that the coin has vanished at my fingertips. That’s what almost any good vanish should “feel” like to a spectator…but the Holdout leaves you clean at the conclusion.

I'll be the first to admit that I do not do a lot of posting on the Café. I run a business with several different facets, have a wife and child to care for, and have interests outside of magic. I'm also in the process of renovating a house that is almost 100 years old! Frankly, when I see someone with hundreds or THOUSANDS of posts I am always amazed that they have that kind of time. More power to them….

Let me take a moment to address a few of the previous posts:

Is anyone here unclear about MagicChris's feelings about the Trabucco Holdout? He didn't like it! In fact he feels the need to add his comments almost EVERY time someone makes any post about it.

As for misleading advertising, I disagree. The spirit of the ad was to promote how clean you are as a performer before, during, and after many routines. Linking rings are not "metal melting through metal", a money-maker does not "make paper change into money", and the cigarette doesn't really "penetrate through the quarter". My point is that magic ads are designed to convey the appearance of effects to the audience. I believe I'm safe in saying that anyone who knows me or has done business with us will attest to the fact that I ALWAYS try to be as open and forthcoming as possible. Properly used, the Trabucco Holdout allows you to create every effect we list in the ad. Nothing is self-working however; I assumed a competent magician would understand that. Any holdout is a tool that can make your effects look more magical, not a replacement for skill.

As for MagicChris's REPEATED rehashing of the 3AM Spellbound Coin…I explained already why we held back the release of the component items and all of them have been available since a little over a month after our first release of the Holdout. You may not have agreed with why we held the component items back for a short while and that's your prerogative…but that's what we did and I stand by my reasoning. Regardless, the items are ALL available now and have been for MONTHS.

Finally, we have sold and continue to sell the Trabucco Holdout to a wide range of magicians, from those that work in virtual anonymity to some of magic's most well known names. The VAST MAJORITY have had VERY positive response to the device. No one is forcing anyone to buy the device, but those of you who value the opinion of people like Bill Malone, Charlie Reynolds, Steve Bargatze, Tom Gagnon, Paul Gertner, Mike Powers, Paul Cummins, and Larry Becker (just to name a few!), may want to investigate the Trabucco Holdout further.

Best,
Paul Richards
Elmwood Magic
Message: Posted by: Jim Stan Magic Man (Sep 11, 2004 12:50PM)
I agree with Paul. Not everything is for everyone. Those of us who have purchased the TH have a new 'weapon' in our arsenal. I believe this to be a great addition to my act. You really need to 'read between the lines' with some magic offerings. We have all seen a lot of 'junk' advertised that is nothing like what the ads state. I read the magazines on the TH and knew that this was something that would fit my style. I purchased mine from Paul at the 2004 IBM convention. Paul was very helpful in demonstrating the possibilites and answering all of my questions.
Paul, thanks for putting out such a great product!
regards,
Jim
Message: Posted by: Mike Powers (Sep 11, 2004 03:55PM)
If your spectators see you take a coin from your right hand into your left hand and then they see that the right hand is totally empty, they have no doubt that the coin is in the left hand. Slydini used to use the bold subterfuge of holding up nothing at his finger tips and saying "Whacha da coin" (Slydini talk for "watch the coin."). There was nothing there but people would swear they saw it there. The illusion that the coin vanished from the fingertips is strengthened by the fact that the other hand is utterly empty due to the holdout...

Mike
Message: Posted by: ftlum (Sep 11, 2004 07:36PM)
I still feel somewhat misled.

If you do a retention pass and drop the coin in a servante hanging off the table, would you advertise the servant as being able to vanish items at your fingertips?

Or how about this: you do a spellbound move and ditch the other coin in the servante. Would you advertize the servante as being able to change the color of coins at your fingetips?

No, this type of advertising is not accurate. In my opinion, when I read about a gimmick, the description should be about what the gimmick immediately accomplishes; it should not emphasize an unrelated sleight of hand move that occurs earlier.

For instance, a better advertisment of the servante might be one that emphasizes that you can end clean.


BTW, as I mentioned earlier, I do have a positive opinion about the holdout. I simply disagree with a few bits in the advertising which (unfortunately) had a heavy influence on me when I purchased it. Caveat emptor.


-- Frank
Message: Posted by: Review King (Sep 11, 2004 08:44PM)
[quote]
On 2004-09-11 12:50, Paul Richards wrote:
There’s no video because I felt there was no way to capture the authentic live experience of the device in use. I use the device on a regular basis and I can honestly say that real people believe that the coin has vanished at my fingertips. That’s what almost any good vanish should “feel” like to a spectator…but the Holdout leaves you clean at the conclusion.

I'll be the first to admit that I do not do a lot of posting on the Café. I run a business with several different facets, have a wife and child to care for, and have interests outside of magic. I'm also in the process of renovating a house that is almost 100 years old! Frankly, when I see someone with hundreds or THOUSANDS of posts I am always amazed that they have that kind of time. More power to them….

Let me take a moment to address a few of the previous posts:

Is anyone here unclear about MagicChris's feelings about the Trabucco Holdout? He didn't like it! In fact he feels the need to add his comments almost EVERY time someone makes any post about it.

As for misleading advertising, I disagree. The spirit of the ad was to promote how clean you are as a performer before, during, and after many routines. Linking rings are not "metal melting through metal", a money-maker does not "make paper change into money", and the cigarette doesn't really "penetrate through the quarter". My point is that magic ads are designed to convey the appearance of effects to the audience. I believe I'm safe in saying that anyone who knows me or has done business with us will attest to the fact that I ALWAYS try to be as open and forthcoming as possible. Properly used, the Trabucco Holdout allows you to create every effect we list in the ad. Nothing is self-working however; I assumed a competent magician would understand that. Any holdout is a tool that can make your effects look more magical, not a replacement for skill.

As for MagicChris's REPEATED rehashing of the 3AM Spellbound Coin…I explained already why we held back the release of the component items and all of them have been available since a little over a month after our first release of the Holdout. You may not have agreed with why we held the component items back for a short while and that's your prerogative…but that's what we did and I stand by my reasoning. Regardless, the items are ALL available now and have been for MONTHS.

Finally, we have sold and continue to sell the Trabucco Holdout to a wide range of magicians, from those that work in virtual anonymity to some of magic's most well known names. The VAST MAJORITY have had VERY positive response to the device. No one is forcing anyone to buy the device, but those of you who value the opinion of people like Bill Malone, Charlie Reynolds, Steve Bargatze, Tom Gagnon, Paul Gertner, Mike Powers, Paul Cummins, and Larry Becker (just to name a few!), may want to investigate the Trabucco Holdout further.

Best,
Paul Richards
Elmwood Magic
[/quote]

This Café is a gathering place for magicians to share ideas. This section is a review section for members. So, I’m allowed to comment anytime anyone else makes a comment. Start your own message board and you can dictate what your members can do.
Message: Posted by: BroDavid (Sep 12, 2004 09:37PM)
I was excited about the ads for this item, and when Elmwood was at the IBM, I went right there hoping they had it.

After the demo, I walked away terribly dissapointed. The method was extremely obvious to me. But maybe that is because I have been using that same method in that exact same way for over three years.

BroDavid.
Message: Posted by: Mike Powers (Sep 12, 2004 10:07PM)
The holdout works best in close quarters like a walkaround situation but it can be used in most any circumstances. The basic method may be obvious after the demo but I believe you'll find that there are features of this design that were not at all obvious and that make the prop far more versitile than you might think.

Mike
Message: Posted by: Review King (Sep 12, 2004 11:05PM)
[quote]
On 2004-09-12 22:37, BroDavid wrote:
I was excited about the ads for this item, and when Elmwood was at the IBM, I went right there hoping they had it.

After the demo, I walked away terribly dissapointed. The method was extremely obvious to me. But maybe that is because I have been using that same method in that exact same way for over three years.

BroDavid.
[/quote]

Paul doesn't like comments like that.:lol:
Message: Posted by: Neoglobin (Sep 12, 2004 11:38PM)
Well actually, Paul would like it. It seems Brother David must like the hold out if hes been using it for 3 years! :)
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (Aug 21, 2005 12:11PM)
I have the TH and use it all the time. Depends on your level of creativity how much you will get out of it. For me, it kills and I think it's a very effective weapon.
Message: Posted by: Glenn Watson (Aug 21, 2005 07:45PM)
I bought the holdout from Paul at a convention in Vegas.He spent a while dicussing the holdout before and after my purchase.
This was not my first encounter with Paul at a convention .I have found him to be honest ,helpful and a good magic demonstrator.
I give Paul my highest compliment.I trust him. Glenn
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (Aug 21, 2005 10:28PM)
I would agree about Paul. The days of magic dealers being able to demonstrate their products are long gone. I go to the MagiFest every year and Paul and Mark Mason are the only dealers that know how to properly demonstrate their items. It's really sad if you ask me. Bottom line, Paul did a very nice demo of the holdout and it fooled everyone that watched .
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Aug 22, 2005 08:49AM)
The TH is a fantastic utility item. It won't vanish things at your fingertips but you can vanish things at your finger tips and show both hands empty immediately afterwards.

Does a topit enable you to vanish items at your fingertips? Does a topit enable you to make a bottle of wine appear in your hand?

The TH does enable you to do things but it does not do it for you.
Message: Posted by: bsears (Aug 23, 2005 05:06PM)
I'll agree that the ad was misleading, but I love my TH. Much better than the Bat. Much more affordable than the K/F holdout. You can't get a better, more versatile holdout for the money, IMOP.
Message: Posted by: Larry Davidson (Aug 23, 2005 05:12PM)
All holdouts are not created equal. From the standpoint of versatility, instruction, and multiple other criteria, the F/K holdout is light years ahead of the Trabucco holdout. I have both. That being said, the Trabucco is great and I highly recommend it.
Message: Posted by: Joey Evans (Jul 30, 2006 10:21PM)
Well, I for one, like to see that there are two side to this discussion. As with any product some will like it and some won't. I like the fact that both sides can state their opinion and why they believe that way. It gives potential buyers much more information. I enjoyed reading the variety although I won't be purchasing this hold-out or the F/K hold out, as I use a topit and a Dan Tong hold out and there's nothing I need something like this for. If it's not broke, don't fix it. I just wanted to say, thanks for keeping it civil.

Joey
Message: Posted by: magicman899 (Jul 31, 2006 07:48AM)
How does this compare to the Black Widow device?
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (Jul 31, 2006 11:11AM)
I don't have Black Widow but I do have Trabucco. The main difference is that Trabucco is a stationary holdout meaning that it has no moving parts. To make something appear or vanish, your hand has to come into contact with teh holdout. Given the design, any necessary handmovements are almost invisible. The nice thing about Trabucco is that you have a holdout on both sides and the holdouts are fairly large. So you can use the holdout with either hand and you can have multiple objects on the holdout at the same time.
Message: Posted by: magicman899 (Jul 31, 2006 02:49PM)
Thanks
Message: Posted by: jones08 (Jul 31, 2006 02:58PM)
I have Subterfuge and I'm not entirely happy with the system. Is Trabucco the same idea, or do you think it would be something I should look into?
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (Jul 31, 2006 04:25PM)
With Trabucco, you have nothing attached to your hands or sleeves at any time. Your hands are completely free and clean and the ditches/steals look invisible if you can do even the slighest misdirection. It does pretty much require a jacket however and some minor alteration is necessary although you can do it yourself.
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Jul 31, 2006 04:58PM)
And don't forget your sleeves can be up the whole time!
Message: Posted by: Jim Stan Magic Man (Jul 31, 2006 07:14PM)
I have still not had anyone catch the method during performance (including magicians). Much like the topit, less is more. I love my Trabucco Holdout. Thanks Paul.
Regards,
Jim
Message: Posted by: jones08 (Aug 1, 2006 01:36AM)
"With Trabucco, you have nothing attached to your hands or sleeves at any time. Your hands are completely free and clean and the ditches/steals look invisible if you can do even the slighest misdirection. It does pretty much require a jacket however and some minor alteration is necessary although you can do it yourself."

"And don't forget your sleeves can be up the whole time!"

Thanks for the answers. This is sounding interesting. I don't like the jacket part, though--I never wear one. Any way around this? Maybe a baggy shirt over a t-shirt?
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (Aug 1, 2006 08:05AM)
Probably not. Some have said you can do it with a vest, but jacket is the best way by far.
Message: Posted by: Jim Stan Magic Man (Aug 1, 2006 05:08PM)
A vest would be possible but the jacket is definetly the way to go. It is easy to transfer between jackets.

Jim
Message: Posted by: Irishghost (Aug 9, 2006 08:36PM)
I ordered mine 2 days ago from Paul at Elmwood, and I can not wait to get it. I also seen Mr Schoolcraft make use of the Trabucco hold out in his 3CM video. He was wearing a short sleeved shirt, any thoughts on this type of modification? I really am excited to get this. I recently started working with coins(cardman at heart) but feel after 5 years of strickly card work, it is time to move on to coin work.
Message: Posted by: TOM WIESE (Aug 10, 2006 02:46PM)
I have spoke to Jamie in regards to his 3CM video. He told me that he did not use a Trubucco Holdout in his video.


Tom
Message: Posted by: Irishghost (Aug 12, 2006 07:10AM)
Ouch, I could have sworn I read he used it in the vid. Oh well, I am sure I will love my Hold-out
Message: Posted by: magiclee71 (Aug 13, 2006 09:07PM)
I am interested in this gimmick. Can someone that has this holdout confirm that there are 2 ways to set this up with a loose fitting short sleeved shirt? On Elmwood magic's site it says in the Trabucco Holdout forum there are 2 ways to set this up with short sleeves. If this is true then I will buy this tomorrow. Thanks.
Message: Posted by: Irishghost (Aug 16, 2006 07:30AM)
[quote]
On 2006-08-13 22:51, magiclee71 wrote:
I am interested in this gimmick. Can someone that has this holdout confirm that there are 2 ways to set this up with a loose fitting short sleeved shirt? On Elmwood magic's site it says in the Trabucco Holdout forum there are 2 ways to set this up with short sleeves. If this is true then I will buy this tomorrow. Thanks.
[/quote]
I will let you know on Friday, mine is sitting at the post office waiting for me to pay the duty. Getting it at lunch today.
Message: Posted by: magicxman (Aug 16, 2006 07:39AM)
You just need a loose fitting shirt or jacket. Long or short sleeves not a matter.
Message: Posted by: magiclee71 (Aug 16, 2006 09:37AM)
Thanks guys for your replies. I ordered mine yesterday and was shipped out the same day. Elmwood Magic shipping is great. I am very excited to put this to use. A short sleeve, button up, untucked shirt will do the job from what I was told at Elmwood.
Message: Posted by: the who dini (Aug 20, 2006 07:44PM)
Does anyone own a Black Widow? How is the Trabucco Holdout diffrent from the Black Widow?
Message: Posted by: GarySumpter (Aug 24, 2006 10:28AM)
What a humerous thread!

I saw the TH demonstrated by the man himself at Blackpool 2 years back and loved it.

Not for me, but VERY smart anyway. If I hadnt just spent a lot on useless toys I probably would have picked one up!

In my opinion, the TH is best NOT used to make things vanish, but as a clean up device for switching in / out items or removing the evidence at the end of a routine.

Gary
Message: Posted by: haccis (Apr 7, 2007 04:50AM)
First, I havent slightest idea what this gimmick might be. (Interesting is only thing what know about it).
So...

1. I work usually surrounded, can I use this "holdout" normally if I'm surrounded?

2. I work usually walk around. Does this mighty gimmick need some reset or secert loading?

3. Do I need some special clothing? Like M. Ammars topit, what's assembled with serious cutting and needle using. Is it easy removable from cloths and is it "switchable" to another clothes? ( Different clothes for different audience).
Message: Posted by: Justin N. Miller (Apr 7, 2007 08:31AM)
I was just with vic this past monday...he had on a short sleeved shirt..while DEVESTATING everyone around him! It SHOULD be done in a short sleeved shirt in my opinion.
GREAT UTILITY DEVICE!!
Justin N. Miller
Message: Posted by: dannydaniels (Sep 16, 2007 01:20PM)
I just received my holdout and am totally satisfied with the product. I have to admit and agree with some who have also said it, even my daughter (who knows a little about magic) saw "the move" every time on the DVD. That is not to say the holdout or method is bad. Remember, Victor is performing at such a distance in front of the camera that does not give the holdout its due merits. It fries people when working in real-world close-up and/ or surrounded conditions. With a little management, even using it at a distance, you can still blow their minds. I work professionally here in Germany, and the Germans really REALLY burn your hands. I have my own routines that have always paid well, but the TH has greatly augmented them. I get a great kick out of this baby. Bottom line: it's fun to work with, a great tool, and it floors people when I roll up my sleeves, show my hands empty, and then a coin is at my fingertips a la Larry Jennings nice move from his Hook routine. Slow mo' and cool. It is simply a GREAT UTILITY DEVICE (thanks Justin)! That's it. Thanks, Vic!
Message: Posted by: dannydaniels (Sep 16, 2007 01:22PM)
Sorry, I have to add that my daughter knows what to look for! Most folks won't catch it!
Message: Posted by: Review King (Sep 19, 2007 11:57PM)
I think this should be called a utility device. When I read "hold out" I think about a Jack Miller type device. The Trabucco is not like that.

With good misdirection, the Trabucco would work fine. But, with a "holdout" like the Miller type, there are no moves ( like going to your side to dicth ). The magic happens in front of their eyes.
Message: Posted by: Curtis Kam (Sep 20, 2007 03:45AM)
Vic Trabucco's a monster with this. He walked up to a bunch of us at Fechter's in a short sleeved shirt and fooled us for a couple of hours. He never "went to his side to ditch" and the magic did happen right in front of our eyes.

If you use the Trabucco Holdout wisely, the audience will never see a ditch. If you use the Miller style holdout wisely, they'll never see a ditch either. But they will still see your sleeves.

To answer Haccis' questions:

1. Yes.
2. Not particularly. Depends on your application. All holdouts need loading if you're doing a production. With the Trabucco holdout you can produce the coins you vanished at the end of your last set.
3. No, and Yes.
Message: Posted by: Ethan the emazing (Jan 19, 2008 11:50PM)
A few weeks ago I saw Vic lecture...hes AMAZING with this thing. This lady's nose was 8 in. from it, and she knew the method, and she still was blown away. Great utility device.
Message: Posted by: Acecardician (Feb 6, 2008 07:21PM)
I have this, but I wear a long coat, almost to my knees, as the riverboat gambler.
Any suggestions on how to use this with this type of coat?


ACE
Message: Posted by: Airave (Jun 1, 2008 02:14PM)
[quote]
On 2008-02-06 20:21, Acecardician wrote:
I have this, but I wear a long coat, almost to my knees, as the riverboat gambler.
Any suggestions on how to use this with this type of coat?


ACE
[/quote]

My first post here!

I ordered one last week (and it is already in Germany!)
so should be getting it tomorrow or Tuesday at the latest.

ACE, The coat I plan on using is a thin leather mantle,
which also comes to about knee level. Have you resolved
this issue or is this really an issue at all?

I also like working in a tee with an unbuttoned
short sleeved over.... Hehe, I'm getting anxious! :D
Message: Posted by: Airave (Jun 5, 2008 02:34PM)
After many problems* (and support from Elmwood Magic!)
my hold-out has arrived. Was worth all costs and delays
(German customs...). I love it. Have a booth at a trade show
this week-end and am working hard to get a routine together
for handing out business cards (I do Photography & Design)
in another Magic way... ;D

Ok.... trenchcoat.... dunno.... maybe.... But!
Have a couple of big hawaiian shirts that may work.
With a black T and black pants and "Subterfuge"... meow!

Edit:*Problems with German customs that had
nothing to do with Elmwood Magic. EM is superior
in quickness and customer service, in my experience.
Message: Posted by: mrpiper (Jun 8, 2011 02:36PM)
OK, I know this is a VERY old thread, but I found a Trabucco hold out "used" for $50.00 on Ebay 2 weeks ago. When I got it, the box was opened, but everything insisde the box was still sealed and brand new! I was already delighted with the price, but now ecstatic. This idea is worth its weight in gold! I haven't had this much fun with simple close up routines in years. I am re-thinking everything I do. I am dragging out the old gravity hold out and can't wait to see just how amazing the magic becomes. Thank you Victor for sharing such a great idea with the magic community. Through all of us who own your great idea, many people are laughing and smiling in wonder. What a great gift to give to your audience!
Regards,
m
Message: Posted by: HerbLarry (Jun 8, 2011 03:13PM)
Don't O.D. on that holdout or any other.
Message: Posted by: Ben Harris (Jun 8, 2011 03:45PM)
I remember Vic fooling everyone over and over with this at a FFFF convention in 1985!

Benny