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Topic: TEENAGERS
Message: Posted by: kinesis (Feb 5, 2019 04:31AM)
Hi
I've been asked to teach teenagers (12 - 15yrs olds) 4 or 5 simple magic effects. Any suggestions?
Message: Posted by: davidpaul$ (Feb 5, 2019 12:26PM)
These teens aren't magicians. They probably won't respect the art of magic.
I have encountered thousands of not only teens, but others who just want to know how it's done or be shown a simple trick. ( it's so much more)

One of the managers of a restaurant I worked in pleaded for me to show him a trick. I gave and showed him the effect Hot-Rod with the multi-colired gems. He said "oh is that all it is"
I swore I would never do that again.

If they want to learn a few tricks, make the effort to go to the library and seek out a book. Guess how many will do that?................................................................................I'm waiting
Message: Posted by: GlennLawrence (Feb 5, 2019 01:11PM)
Strongly agree. Don't do it.
Message: Posted by: Mary Mowder (Feb 5, 2019 01:21PM)
I've been asked on multiple occasions to just teach a few tricks ( in a one hour, one time class) . I always decline and tell them that Magic takes a serious commitment and that one lesson is a set up for embarrassment. I 'm sure they just call the next name on the list.

-Mary Mowder
Message: Posted by: puggo (Feb 5, 2019 02:43PM)
I have found that showing teenagers ONE simple, near self working trick can be a positive experience, particularly if you then explain how serious study is needed if they want to learn more/sleight of hand etc. (I use a simple in the hands card trick or a coin to neck vanish for this). Even putting aside the internet, I don't think that this is exposure, but as giving them a taste of magic in their own hands or achievement.

Who's to say that you won't make a difference to the teenagers life in some perhaps small way or inspire them to become a serious student?

I will now put on my flame proof underpants in case others disagree!

PS - I don't do lessons or offer to teach them anything else, but rather direct them to a good source or teacher.
Message: Posted by: funsway (Feb 5, 2019 04:23PM)
I have taught several "High school club" courses in magic to teenagers. If they did not have an interest in magic or weird science when they were 10-12 they did not suddenly
discover it as a teen. Many want to learn a trick to impress friends or attract girls, etc. - or just "gotcha" as an ego stroke.

Yet, there were the few who really "got into it." That was /decades ago. Today I am not sure that anyone addicted to an iPhone can be serious about magic.
It is not about technology. It is matter of imagination and interpersonal relations. How do you find the few?

One suggestion based on by experience. Teach one trick to be mastered. No second one until they can perform the first adequately under a variety of settings.
Yes, show them where the library is. The third trick is one they find themselves in a book and master. Of any are left in the group you have a chance to move to better things.

Above all else, kill any notion that magic is something you buy. They might purchase a gaff like a C/S, but no one in my classes could ever perform a purchased packet trick.
I also did not allow card tricks for beginning students. No mental magic or mentalism either. PM me if you don't understand why.

It was terrific when the advanced group could put on a show for fellow students at an assembly. Yes - effects and not tricks.

Also, today I would charge a fee for the course and then return part for every class attended on time. The final cost is Zero.
The key is not to waste time waiting for a lack of responsibility. There is no "catch up" or "what did I miss?"
The secrecy rule applied to each other as well. As Mary said, "commitment" is essential. Have them prove it.
Message: Posted by: EllisJames52 (Feb 5, 2019 04:56PM)
Teenager here, chiming in. Are most teens going to seriously appreciate magic? No. Is there are chance that one could? Yes. Magic, like all art, needs to be shared.

What if you taught something simple, like a false transfer. Tell them that you can help them learn more, but only when they can come back and do a perfect false transfer. The ones that don’t care enough to put in the time will give up, but the ones who care will stay, and can be pushed into the right direction.

If you don’t offer any help, and turn them away completely, they will learn from YouTube. Then they will grow up without any appreciation for our art.
Message: Posted by: Mary Mowder (Feb 5, 2019 05:16PM)
I agree EllisJames52

But I don't want to make money from a situation where I know most in the group will not be well served.

- Mary Mowder
Message: Posted by: Rocky (Feb 5, 2019 07:11PM)
Why stop at magic? Teenagers often don't respect the subjects they are taught in public school. Math, literature, art history...these are subjects most teenagers will have little interest in, but are forced to sit through public school to learn them. Send them off to a library to teach themselves if they really have an interest and the tax payers can save millions.

I also have seen my share of retired adults who express an interest in learning magic at a later age...forget them too! They are only into it because they have spare time on their hands to butcher classic magic effects in front of their peers at the magic club...some even attempt to perform for the public only to embarrass themselves and the art of magic as a whole.


Magic Café members...we need to determine a way to measure the worth of those who wish to learn how to cut and restore rope, multiply billiard balls, and vanish a coin. Please join me in my crusade to evaluate the worthiness of those who we feel are entitled to be taught magic!!!!!
Message: Posted by: davidpaul$ (Feb 5, 2019 07:32PM)
[quote]On Feb 5, 2019, kinesis wrote:
Hi
I've been asked to teach teenagers (12 - 15yrs olds) 4 or 5 simple magic effects. Any suggestions? [/quote]

No one knows the particulars of the above request. Are these teens genuinely interested or have previous experience? Is the request just to teach some teens who may or may not be interested?

I was asked to teach a magic class at my church for some youngsters. In the middle of explaining a simple napkin trick a young man raised his hand to tell me his family owned horses.

I've been asked several times to teach the boy scouts, girl scouts etc. I kindly decline because of personal experience reasons and the reasons already mentioned above.
Message: Posted by: kinesis (Feb 6, 2019 04:00AM)
[quote]On Feb 5, 2019, davidpaul$ wrote:
[quote]On Feb 5, 2019, kinesis wrote:
Hi
I've been asked to teach teenagers (12 - 15yrs olds) 4 or 5 simple magic effects. Any suggestions? [/quote]

No one knows the particulars of the above request. [/quote]

Thanks, The teenagers have all expressed interest. several of them already do card tricks and one is quite skilled. This is a school environment where these particular children could do with a confidence boost as some come from quite difficult backgrounds.
Message: Posted by: funsway (Feb 6, 2019 06:22AM)
[quote]On Feb 6, 2019, kinesis wrote:
[quote]On Feb 5, 2019, davidpaul$ wrote:
[quote]On Feb 5, 2019, kinesis wrote:
Hi
I've been asked to teach teenagers (12 - 15yrs olds) 4 or 5 simple magic effects. Any suggestions? [/quote]

No one knows the particulars of the above request. [/quote]

Thanks, The teenagers have all expressed interest. several of them already do card tricks and one is quite skilled. This is a school environment where these particular children could do with a confidence boost as some come from quite difficult backgrounds. [/quote]


OK - expanding then on my ideas posted above. Is it to be a regular course such as an after school program? How long per session and how many sessions?
Are there language difficulties? Is an eventual show a possibility, or just individual socialization objectives?

You said 4-5 tricks. Might this lead to something more? Who did the asking - parents? School counselor?
Why you? What do they (kids and asker) know about the magic you perform? Are you to be paid or a willing volunteer?

Such questions can influence which tricks you teach, or preferably "create conditions in which they might learn."

In my experience, "boosting confidence" can be a great secondary affect of getting involved in performing magic IF the motivation comes from the kid.
If this is being done based on an adult's opinion as to what is best for these kids it is "fraught with peril."
Music or theater might be a better choice than magic.

If the school wishes to teach ALL students a couple of magic tricks as a way of overcoming stage fright it could be great! (as in all Cub Scouts back when)
As an alternative, how about offering the "teach in" to all students showing an interest? That way, these kids would be "included" rather that specialized.
Message: Posted by: Mary Mowder (Feb 6, 2019 11:34AM)
Kinesis,

How long will you have with them?

- Mary
Message: Posted by: TKD27 (Feb 6, 2019 01:44PM)
I'll teach anyone magic. I just don't see the problem.

James Munton sells a DVD on doing a magic class as a birthday party show. It's aimed at kids in the 8-12ish range, but it might be useful for you.

Tricks I love to teach include:

- Key Card Trick
- Mind Reading Crayons where you scrape the wax with your finger nail
- Two Card Monte (I have my own branded give aways for this, but you can teach it to kids by having them glue cards together).
- Linking Paper Clips

For really young kids (under eight), far and away my favorite trick for them is a coin slide. You know - the cheap plastic toy that you put a quarter in to whole then insert it in a sleeve and vanishes. It's completely self working and they basically fool themselves with it all day long, it's wonderful.
Message: Posted by: Dollarbill (Feb 6, 2019 10:48PM)
[quote]On Feb 5, 2019, puggo wrote:
I have found that showing teenagers ONE simple, near self working trick can be a positive experience, particularly if you then explain how serious study is needed if they want to learn more/sleight of hand etc. (I use a simple in the hands card trick or a coin to neck vanish for this). Even putting aside the internet, I don't think that this is exposure, but as giving them a taste of magic in their own hands or achievement.

Who's to say that you won't make a difference to the teenagers life in some perhaps small way or inspire them to become a serious student?

I will now put on my flame proof underpants in case others disagree!

PS - I don't do lessons or offer to teach them anything else, but rather direct them to a good source or teacher. [/quote]


I show people the neck thing too. Very rarely.....Usually it's only for close friends or other adults that aren't the kind to go blab their mouth. If they want to show their kid sumthing'.

To the OP. I wouldn't suggest it either. Mary makes a good point as do several others here.

You could do the Fortune telling fish. (super cheap to provide) That is one of the coolest "trick" things for kids out there. I don't care how old you are it's great! Maybe that fish illusion that one fish is bigger than the other. Also you could twist some ez balloon animals. Just my $.02
Message: Posted by: Chamberlain (Feb 7, 2019 02:12PM)
Some easy tricks that shouldn't take too long to learn:

Crazy Mans Handcuffs
TOXIC Force on their Phones calculator
Emotional Reaction by Vernon
Sponge Balls (basic routine with 2 sponges)
Out of this World
Wonderland Bill
Card Warp

Or just get the JawDroppers magic dvd set and choose from there
Message: Posted by: Dollarbill (Feb 7, 2019 02:19PM)
[quote]On Feb 7, 2019, Chamberlain wrote:
Some easy tricks that shouldn't take too long to learn:

Crazy Mans Handcuffs
TOXIC Force on their Phones calculator
Emotional Reaction by Vernon
Sponge Balls (basic routine with 2 sponges)
Out of this World
Wonderland Bill
Card Warp

Or just get the JawDroppers magic dvd set and choose from there [/quote]

I disagree here. None of those should be taught. just my $.02
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Feb 7, 2019 03:14PM)
I agree with your disagreement
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 7, 2019 03:17PM)
Why would you teach those?

And consider what right you have to do so.
Message: Posted by: Rocky (Feb 7, 2019 06:18PM)
These are the very same effects which are performed by some of the senior citizens who haunt our magic club!!! They continuously butcher these effects to no end! I can only imagine what a precocious teenager would do given the secrets to these effects!!!!

Shame on those who share these nuggets with the "Wannabes"...both young and old alike.
Message: Posted by: Kaliix (Feb 7, 2019 06:30PM)
Newbies starting out need to learn early how to perform a trick. Magic is hard enough to learn, but if one doesn't have performing chops. I would pick tricks that are easy to do but ones that allow for a decent performance.

The circus card trick or the lie detector card trick (key card method) are technically easy enough to perform while allowing for good audience interaction and entertainment.
Message: Posted by: Dollarbill (Feb 7, 2019 09:48PM)
[quote]On Feb 5, 2019, kinesis wrote:
Hi
I've been asked to teach teenagers (12 - 15yrs olds) 4 or 5 simple magic effects. Any suggestions? [/quote]

I know it sounds like people are Bit***** at you, but don't read into it too much. I think the overall gist' is to go another way...... I'm gist' sayin', my $.02 cents. ... just my opinion. db (see what I did there?) ha! Thank you very much! I'll be here all week! 👌👈 < that
Message: Posted by: funsway (Feb 8, 2019 02:39AM)
Here is an alternative approach for a small group. At a birthday party years ago for a 12-14 age group I had each parent pay $5.00
to cover the cost of a small magic set from E-Z. Each contained six simple/beginner tricks.

I performed two of them during my show without their knowing I had the kits to pass out later.
They were all excited to get the magic sets - and more excited to learn that these tricks could actually be performed in a show.

Out of the eight girls, two of them later contacted me to see if they could learn more.
When I asked which of the tricks they had mastered I never heard form them again.

I have no doubt some learned a couple of tricks to amuse their friends. To me that is NOT "being interested in magic."
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Feb 8, 2019 09:31AM)
I agree Ken. The situation you have described is too often the case.

These "magicians" who want to expose the methods of "commercial' tricks to "curiosity seekers", are doing just that: EXPOSING. (e.g.,see Mr. Chamberlain's post above.)

THEY ARE NOT HELPING MAGIC, OR THOSE SEEKERS who are only motivated by "secrets:.

I have years of experience, mentoring teens. Many are now successful professionals. Some are avid amateurs. It was made clear to all of them at early meetings, that I could merely help them learn. Learning is an active process, not a passive one.

We had discussions, but, I merely recommended books by well qualified magicians, and, we discussed what they had learned.

I only mentored those who showed themselves SERIOUS.
Message: Posted by: Rocky (Feb 8, 2019 10:18AM)
I think the exception should be for Gospel Magic. The student of gospel related magic has devoted their life to our Savior Jesus Christ and is seeking a way to deliver His message through magic. Also, should they be deemed "not serious" through their mentor/teacher, the secrets will be safe due to the morals held by the student. Perhaps it could be recommended to pursue clowning as a way to promote Christianity(?).
Message: Posted by: Wx4usa (Feb 8, 2019 07:07PM)
Reminds me of when the kids were little and taking TaeKwonDo. People would come in and want to know the 'Secrets' in their FREE intro lesson. Show me how to break a board or knock someone out. The idea was, sign up, pay for lessons, make a commitment, start where everyone starts, learn the basics, master the basics and advance...over time. Planned, proactive and intentional. Same with learning magic, I think.

Ken's example above with the magic kits validated the kiddos commitment or lack thereof.

Same idea applied in a magic shop where I grew up. The owner knew the basic 'tricks' and what I could (successfully) handle. Those he showed me and sold me. He would show other effects but not necessarily sell them to me because I wasn't ready. He'd say, show me this trick and how you do it. If I did it well, I might get to buy this one or that one. If I blew it, I wouldn't. He knew success in this effect meant I would be OK with that one...I know now that he was right. He said, I'd just be frustrated with that one until I learned this one.....

At the core of it all I think is striking a balance between protecting secrets, validating commitment and setting the student up for success whatever the age happens to be....kids or adults. And realizing there are those that just want to buy stuff to discover secrets, try it a few times, impress friends and throw it in a box.

And Dick's ideas on mentoring above are good ones.
Message: Posted by: Dollarbill (Feb 8, 2019 08:04PM)
[quote]On Feb 8, 2019, Wx4usa wrote:
Reminds me of when the kids were little and taking TaeKwonDo. People would come in and want to know the 'Secrets' in their FREE intro lesson. Show me how to break a board or knock someone out. The idea was, sign up, pay for lessons, make a commitment, start where everyone starts, learn the basics, master the basics and advance...over time. Planned, proactive and intentional. Same with learning magic, I think.

Ken's example above with the magic kits validated the kiddos commitment or lack thereof.

Same idea applied in a magic shop where I grew up. The owner knew the basic 'tricks' and what I could (successfully) handle. Those he showed me and sold me. He would show other effects but not necessarily sell them to me because I wasn't ready. He'd say, show me this trick and how you do it. If I did it well, I might get to buy this one or that one. If I blew it, I wouldn't. He knew success in this effect meant I would be OK with that one...I know now that he was right. He said, I'd just be frustrated with that one until I learned this one.....

At the core of it all I think is striking a balance between protecting secrets, validating commitment and setting the student up for success whatever the age happens to be....kids or adults. And realizing there are those that just want to buy stuff to discover secrets, try it a few times, impress friends and throw it in a box.

And Dick's ideas on mentoring above are good ones. [/quote]


Nailed It! Nailed It! Nailed it! (although my teacher would have sold me anything and did sumtimes, but taught me a lot and steered me towards books). I miss that guy!

I like your analogy using martial arts.....that's perfect.👍👍👈

You must put in the work Grass Hoppa! 🤘
Message: Posted by: Wx4usa (Feb 8, 2019 08:12PM)
Thanks DollarBill. Mister Miyagi said, "Wax on, Wax off....Nice finish on Miyagi car validates desire to learn Daniel san."
Message: Posted by: kinesis (Feb 10, 2019 11:28AM)
The session was on Friday 8th Feb
I had a class of 5 eager 15 yr old boys for 2 hrs
We had a lovely time chatting, sharing and learning, they appear to have had a really positive time. I got great feedback from the school.

Thanks for all of the advice but I didn't take any of it and I just did my thing.
Message: Posted by: Wx4usa (Feb 10, 2019 11:39AM)
[quote]On Feb 10, 2019, kinesis wrote:
The session was on Friday 8th Feb
I had a class of 5 eager 15 yr old boys for 2 hrs
We had a lovely time chatting, sharing and learning, they appear to have had a really positive time. I got great feedback from the school.

Thanks for all of the advice but I didn't take any of it and I just did my thing. [/quote]

I’m so glad it went well. That’s awesome. Thanks for sharing the outcome with us!
Message: Posted by: imgic (Feb 10, 2019 01:02PM)
[quote]On Feb 10, 2019, kinesis wrote:
The session was on Friday 8th Feb
I had a class of 5 eager 15 yr old boys for 2 hrs
We had a lovely time chatting, sharing and learning, they appear to have had a really positive time. I got great feedback from the school.

Thanks for all of the advice but I didn't take any of it and I just did my thing. [/quote]

Great to hear. You can't find out if somebody is "serious" or wants more until they try it. Good for you!
Message: Posted by: Rocky (Feb 10, 2019 01:09PM)
Boy, is Dick going to be disappointed!
Message: Posted by: davidpaul$ (Feb 10, 2019 07:07PM)
[quote]On Feb 10, 2019, kinesis wrote:
The session was on Friday 8th Feb
I had a class of 5 eager 15 yr old boys for 2 hrs
We had a lovely time chatting, sharing and learning, they appear to have had a really positive time. I got great feedback from the school.

Thanks for all of the advice but I didn't take any of it and I just did my thing. [/quote]

Just wondering in your time together with the 5 eager boys if you taught them to respect our art
and to respect other performers. I have encountered some teens, with some knowledge, that found it necessary to blurt out some card moves to their buddies in the middle of my performance. No respect or decorum. Glad you had a positive experience but it was all for not "IF" RESPECT and COURTEOUS behaviour was not at the forefront of your class. I hope so.
Message: Posted by: HeronsHorse (Feb 11, 2019 05:49AM)
[quote]On Feb 6, 2019, Rocky wrote:
Why stop at magic? Teenagers often don't respect the subjects they are taught in public school. Math, literature, art history...these are subjects most teenagers will have little interest in, but are forced to sit through public school to learn them. Send them off to a library to teach themselves if they really have an interest and the tax payers can save millions.

I also have seen my share of retired adults who express an interest in learning magic at a later age...forget them too! They are only into it because they have spare time on their hands to butcher classic magic effects in front of their peers at the magic club...some even attempt to perform for the public only to embarrass themselves and the art of magic as a whole.


Magic Café members...we need to determine a way to measure the worth of those who wish to learn how to cut and restore rope, multiply billiard balls, and vanish a coin. Please join me in my crusade to evaluate the worthiness of those who we feel are entitled to be taught magic!!!!! [/quote]

Really? I'd guess from his sarcasm directed at Dick there, that he probably meant to just poke at Dick, yet again, as I keep seeing intolerable morons doing on this site.
Whatever happened to consideration I don't know. Where I come from we have respect for the elders, especially when those folk are trying to pass on knowledge. I see it so often around here, sorry but I'm getting tired of it.
I'd say my apologies if I'm wrong in this case but it seems pretty clear. Rocky jumped on Dick right away. Pathetic.
It is against my better judgement to even comment, because the people who behave this way will then direct the same at me and that's not a game I'm playing. So um yeah, I'll close this thread now.
*poof!
I'm gone
Message: Posted by: Kaliix (Feb 11, 2019 08:56AM)
Dick did nothing but crap all over the original posters idea in like four different posts. One post was enough to register his disapproval. Multiple negative posts with no real suggestions forthcoming were unnecessary. One little post saying that Dick might be disappointed (likely said tongue in cheek) was NOT the work of intolerable morons. Dick had it coming and he doesn't need you to defend him. Of all the ridiculous posts on the Café to choose from...

[quote]On Feb 11, 2019, HeronsHorse wrote:
[quote]On Feb 6, 2019, Rocky wrote:
Why stop at magic? Teenagers often don't respect the subjects they are taught in public school. Math, literature, art history...these are subjects most teenagers will have little interest in, but are forced to sit through public school to learn them. Send them off to a library to teach themselves if they really have an interest and the tax payers can save millions.

I also have seen my share of retired adults who express an interest in learning magic at a later age...forget them too! They are only into it because they have spare time on their hands to butcher classic magic effects in front of their peers at the magic club...some even attempt to perform for the public only to embarrass themselves and the art of magic as a whole.


Magic Café members...we need to determine a way to measure the worth of those who wish to learn how to cut and restore rope, multiply billiard balls, and vanish a coin. Please join me in my crusade to evaluate the worthiness of those who we feel are entitled to be taught magic!!!!! [/quote]

Really? I'd guess from his sarcasm directed at Dick there, that he probably meant to just poke at Dick, yet again, as I keep seeing intolerable morons doing on this site.
Whatever happened to consideration I don't know. Where I come from we have respect for the elders, especially when those folk are trying to pass on knowledge. I see it so often around here, sorry but I'm getting tired of it.
I'd say my apologies if I'm wrong in this case but it seems pretty clear. Rocky jumped on Dick right away. Pathetic.
It is against my better judgement to even comment, because the people who behave this way will then direct the same at me and that's not a game I'm playing. So um yeah, I'll close this thread now.
*poof!
I'm gone [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Rocky (Feb 11, 2019 01:23PM)
All of my posts were done tongue in cheek...My apologies if they were offensive. I should have said in my first response that the advice given by Dick was not what I had expected.
Message: Posted by: imgic (Feb 13, 2019 02:08AM)
[quote]On Feb 10, 2019, davidpaul$ wrote:
[quote]On Feb 10, 2019, kinesis wrote:
The session was on Friday 8th Feb
I had a class of 5 eager 15 yr old boys for 2 hrs
We had a lovely time chatting, sharing and learning, they appear to have had a really positive time. I got great feedback from the school.

Thanks for all of the advice but I didn't take any of it and I just did my thing. [/quote]

Just wondering in your time together with the 5 eager boys if you taught them to respect our art
and to respect other performers. I have encountered some teens, with some knowledge, that found it necessary to blurt out some card moves to their buddies in the middle of my performance. No respect or decorum. Glad you had a positive experience but it was all for not "IF" RESPECT and COURTEOUS behaviour was not at the forefront of your class. I hope so. [/quote]

Respect is learned well before a two hour class. Family, friends, school, environment all instill a sense of respect in a person. Whether it’s respect for the protocols of Magic, then tenets of scouting, or the discipline of athletics...

Bottom line is He spent a couple of hours teaching some kids somethings...he had fun, they had fun...it may lead to something more, or it may not. But bravo to Kinesis for teaching.
Message: Posted by: davidpaul$ (Feb 13, 2019 07:35AM)
[quote]On Feb 13, 2019, imgic wrote:
[quote]On Feb 10, 2019, davidpaul$ wrote:
[quote]On Feb 10, 2019, kinesis wrote:
The session was on Friday 8th Feb
I had a class of 5 eager 15 yr old boys for 2 hrs
We had a lovely time chatting, sharing and learning, they appear to have had a really positive time. I got great feedback from the school.

Thanks for all of the advice but I didn't take any of it and I just did my thing. [/quote]

Just wondering in your time together with the 5 eager boys if you taught them to respect our art
and to respect other performers. I have encountered some teens, with some knowledge, that found it necessary to blurt out some card moves to their buddies in the middle of my performance. No respect or decorum. Glad you had a positive experience but it was all for not "IF" RESPECT and COURTEOUS behaviour was not at the forefront of your class. I hope so. [/quote]

Respect is learned well before a two hour class. Family, friends, school, environment all instill a sense of respect in a person. Whether it’s respect for the protocols of Magic, then tenets of scouting, or the discipline of athletics...

Bottom line is He spent a couple of hours teaching some kids somethings...he had fun, they had fun...it may lead to something more, or it may not. But bravo to Kinesis for teaching. [/quote]

True in a perfect world...Do you get out much? It's ALWAYS important to stress respect, decorum and courtesy. If your statement was true why so much disrespect in our world? There would be no need for LifeLock. :lol:
Message: Posted by: imgic (Feb 15, 2019 11:30PM)
[quote]On Feb 13, 2019, davidpaul$ wrote:
[quote]On Feb 13, 2019, imgic wrote:
[quote]On Feb 10, 2019, davidpaul$ wrote:
[quote]On Feb 10, 2019, kinesis wrote:
The session was on Friday 8th Feb
I had a class of 5 eager 15 yr old boys for 2 hrs
We had a lovely time chatting, sharing and learning, they appear to have had a really positive time. I got great feedback from the school.

Thanks for all of the advice but I didn't take any of it and I just did my thing. [/quote]

Just wondering in your time together with the 5 eager boys if you taught them to respect our art
and to respect other performers. I have encountered some teens, with some knowledge, that found it necessary to blurt out some card moves to their buddies in the middle of my performance. No respect or decorum. Glad you had a positive experience but it was all for not "IF" RESPECT and COURTEOUS behaviour was not at the forefront of your class. I hope so. [/quote]

Respect is learned well before a two hour class. Family, friends, school, environment all instill a sense of respect in a person. Whether it’s respect for the protocols of Magic, then tenets of scouting, or the discipline of athletics...

Bottom line is He spent a couple of hours teaching some kids somethings...he had fun, they had fun...it may lead to something more, or it may not. But bravo to Kinesis for teaching. [/quote]

True in a perfect world...Do you get out much? It's ALWAYS important to stress respect, decorum and courtesy. If your statement was true why so much disrespect in our world? There would be no need for LifeLock. :lol: [/quote]

Yes, respect, decorum, and courtesy should always be stressed. Such as sliding in a little jab about me getting out...
Message: Posted by: davidpaul$ (Feb 16, 2019 08:06AM)
It was a joke. Did you notice the laughing imoji? :lol:
Message: Posted by: Alyx (Feb 16, 2019 09:32AM)
I wish so much that someone had shown me Bobo's and Royal Road to Card Magic when I was a teen (or younger). It should be straightforward to design a curriculum based on these two texts.
Message: Posted by: kinesis (Feb 18, 2019 05:21AM)
Thank you KALIIX & IMGIC for your understanding and support.

Yes, the first round of comments to my original post were off-putting and negative. At times I wished I hadn't bothered posting.

I'm 54yrs old, I've been performing professionally for 37 years, The first 17 of those as a Children's entertainer. I then moved into the close-up sector, performing at restaurants, weddings and corporate events. Since then I've being doing a mix of performances ranging from a complete 2hr mentalism stage show, to radio broadcasts to walkabout close-up at private parties. As a performer I never stop learning, I never stop refining my art and yet I felt after 37 yrs in the field I was being lectured to when all I wanted to do was to teach a bunch of kids a couple of tricks. I'm sure when your uncle sat you on his knee and taught you how to vanish a coin, he had no moral dilemma like The Café has presented here. WOW!!!!
Message: Posted by: davidpaul$ (Feb 18, 2019 08:38AM)
[quote]On Feb 18, 2019, kinesis wrote:
Thank you KALIIX & IMGIC for your understanding and support.

Yes, the first round of comments to my original post were off-putting and negative. At times I wished I hadn't bothered posting.

I'm 54yrs old, I've been performing professionally for 37 years, The first 17 of those as a Children's entertainer. I then moved into the close-up sector, performing at restaurants, weddings and corporate events. Since then I've being doing a mix of performances ranging from a complete 2hr mentalism stage show, to radio broadcasts to walkabout close-up at private parties. As a performer I never stop learning, I never stop refining my art and yet I felt after 37 yrs in the field I was being lectured to when all I wanted to do was to teach a bunch of kids a couple of tricks. I'm sure when your uncle sat you on his knee and taught you how to vanish a coin, he had no moral dilemma like The Café has presented here. WOW!!!! [/quote]

REALLY???? You asked for advice and it was given respectfully. They were opinions from professionals
who have real world experience like you. So you disagreed, so what. No need to complain about the answers given and that you were being lectured to. I don't understand since you are the OP. I applaud your experience and willingness to help up and coming, possible future magical entertainers.

People that post replies to questions have different experiences and are shared. Whether you heed them or not is up to you. You did what you thought was appropiate. Best of luck to you.
Message: Posted by: kinesis (Feb 18, 2019 09:00AM)
[quote]On Feb 18, 2019, davidpaul$ wrote:

REALLY???? You asked for advice and it was given respectfully. They were opinions from professionals who have real world experience like you.

[/quote]

YES REALLY!!!! I asked what effects might be appropriate to teach to a small group of teenagers.

davidpaul$, how many of the 27 comments prior to my event actually addressed my question with suggested effects?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 18, 2019 09:45AM)
In your blanket condemnation you are throwing away some great posts by Mary, and Funsway. So it almost looks like you are choosing to be offended. Mary NEVER is discouraging to ANYONE about ANYTHING.
Message: Posted by: kinesis (Feb 18, 2019 11:53AM)
[quote]On Feb 18, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
In your blanket condemnation you are throwing away some great posts by Mary, and Funsway. So it almost looks like you are choosing to be offended. Mary NEVER is discouraging to ANYONE about ANYTHING. [/quote]

You’re right. My apologies, maybe I was a little overwhelmed by so many comments with so many different opinions and advice. Not at all what I was expecting LOL

Thank you all for taking an interest and responding (In many cases) passionately.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 18, 2019 12:00PM)
Yes when it is put in the perspective of thinking Mary is being offensive it changes LOL! (NOT an insult Mary, you are always a positive voice and encouraging is my point. It is a compliment.)

There are those of us who come off as a "bull in a China shop". (ME being the worst offender.) I can see how when you are expecting one thing and get a LOT of another it can seem overwhelming. No harm no foul. The passion most if not all have here is to help. Even if our own particular style seems a bit too aggressive. No harm is intended I guarantee.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Feb 18, 2019 04:05PM)
With all due respect to your age, and professional experience, kinesis, I think that you should KNOW how to mentor teenagers.

I've been "eating off it" (magic)as Frances Ireland usta say, for 50 +/- 50 years, as a professional, and about 20 years as a part time professional. I'm 87 and, retired. I learned over 50 years ago, how to help INTERESTED TEEN AGERS to learn. I mentored the late Bob McAllister, when he was in high school. I did the same for the late Chuck Windley. I did the same for the late DOUG HENNING (plus many successful young and middle aged professionals.)

I suggested in my first post, how I help young potential magicians. There are dozens of magic books geared to them. (When I was a teen there were only a few books for that age group. I started with "The Magic Show Book" by Alexander the Magician, and "Fun With Magic", by Joseph Leeming.) They helped me book my first school assembly. I made $24. in about 40 minutes, in October, 1945. I was 13. I became a part time professional, THAT DAY.

No one held a meeting and taught me how a few tricks were DONE! Sophocles said it, a few thousand years ago: "One learns by doing the thing!"
At age 8, I saw Stanley Susan's magic show. I told the story in my book about how I decided, that day, to be a magician. --And. I DID.
Message: Posted by: funsway (Feb 19, 2019 04:50AM)
[quote]On Feb 18, 2019, kinesis wrote:


YES REALLY!!!! I asked what effects might be appropriate to teach to a small group of teenagers.

davidpaul$, how many of the 27 comments prior to my event actually addressed my question with suggested effects? [/quote]

Weird. Your OP was "I've been asked to teach teenagers (12 - 15yrs olds) 4 or 5 simple magic effects. Any suggestions?"

No where in there do I see a request for tricks. For me, "effects" and "tricks" are different.
"Been asked to teach" did not imply that you were going to do it regardless, but wanted suggestions on whether to do so or not.

I offered suggestions based on actual experience addressing both concepts.
I asked questions to clarify who and what you were considering (none answered)

Later you say, "Thanks for all of the advice but I didn't take any of it and I just did my thing."

So, it sounds like you always intended to meet this request and had some "tricks" planned. Why did you ask for suggestions at all?

You feel that I was being disrespectful. Weird.
Message: Posted by: kinesis (Feb 19, 2019 06:09AM)
I guess it's all down to the way I worded the O.P.

It would seem everyone interpreted it differently. I had already accepted the (no fee - time freely given) event and was simply looking for ideas for appropriate tricks. Hence my frustration/surprise at the replies.

I never meant to offend anyone
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Feb 19, 2019 09:02AM)
Kinesis!

You asked for suggestions for EFFECTS to teach teenagers in your OP.

With your years of experience, you should KNOW that an EFFECT is WHAT THE SPECTATOR PERCEIVES!

>>>AN EFFECT IS NOT A TRICK.>>>

A TRICK IS WHAT A MAGICIAN PERFORMS TO CREATE MAGIC IN THE MIND(S) OF THE SPECTATOR(S). Whether the PERFORMANCE of the TRICK creates MAGIC in the mind(s) of the SPECTATOR(S) depends on the magician's PRESENTATION.

(Magic is NOT INHERENTLY ENTERTAINING!)

A magician cannot TEACH an EFFECT!

Somewhere above you said that you never stop learning. Good! (When you are through learning, you're through!)

I think that you should read, no study, the Fitzkee Trilogy! 37 years of experience isn't worth much, when one has not learned the FUNDAMENTALS.

Dick Oslund
Message: Posted by: Kights (Feb 19, 2019 10:28AM)
Im 15 and I have royal road , expert card technique, the expert at the card table , card control , Mnemonica and all 5 card college books as books to read for technique and tricks and it's amazing to read through them and learn. For teens you have to remember to not rush your practice and be patient before you go preform your effect
Message: Posted by: kinesis (Feb 19, 2019 02:01PM)
[quote]On Feb 19, 2019, Dick Oslund wrote:
Kinesis!

You asked for suggestions for EFFECTS to teach teenagers in your OP.

With your years of experience, you should KNOW that an EFFECT is WHAT THE SPECTATOR PERCEIVES!

>>>AN EFFECT IS NOT A TRICK.>>>

A TRICK IS WHAT A MAGICIAN PERFORMS TO CREATE MAGIC IN THE MIND(S) OF THE SPECTATOR(S). Whether the PERFORMANCE of the TRICK creates MAGIC in the mind(s) of the SPECTATOR(S) depends on the magician's PRESENTATION.

(Magic is NOT INHERENTLY ENTERTAINING!)

A magician cannot TEACH an EFFECT!

Somewhere above you said that you never stop learning. Good! (When you are through learning, you're through!)

I think that you should read, no study, the Fitzkee Trilogy! 37 years of experience isn't worth much, when one has not learned the FUNDAMENTALS.

Dick Oslund [/quote]

Hi Dick
I believe I corrected myself in all my other posts or maybe most of them where I used the word 'tricks'. I really dislike the word 'trick' and that's why I used the word 'effect' instead, my bad, I should have used the correct word in the first instance but I did change it in later posts.

I've listened and I've apologised and I've tried to identify where I could have been misunderstood but you know what Dick, your rant just reminded me why I abandoned The Café several years ago. Your rant was completely uncalled for. If the best you can do is pick me up on the misuse of a single word in a post and shout at me about it in CAPITALS and belittle my 37 years of experience then I want nothing to do with you or The Café. You might have great respect from your friends in this little corner of the internet but you've just lost all of mine.
Message: Posted by: Kaliix (Feb 19, 2019 03:50PM)
I look at my magic club and see no young people in it. I go to my local magic convention and see mostly old men, very few young people, teens and 20's.

I see all the negativity here, all the condescension and saltiness and it's no wonder.

Listen, I don't want kids performing bad magic but they gotta start some where some how. All Kinesis wanted was a few trick suggestions, not a litany of sarcasm and negativity.

I'm not saying you can't say anything is a bad idea, but Jeez SUS, say it short and sweet, ONCE! and then be done with it.

It's embarrassing sometimes, really...
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 19, 2019 04:03PM)
Yes your post certainly is ironic in tone don't you think?
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Feb 19, 2019 04:40PM)
[quote]On Feb 7, 2019, Dick Oslund wrote:
I agree with your disagreement [/quote]

Kalix: THIS was my FIRST comment on this thread. I was agreeing with Dollar Bill, regarding Chamberlin's post.

I said NOTHING to the OP.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Feb 19, 2019 04:56PM)
[quote]On Feb 8, 2019, Dick Oslund wrote:
I agree Ken. The situation you have described is too often the case.

These "magicians" who want to expose the methods of "commercial' tricks to "curiosity seekers", are doing just that: EXPOSING. (e.g.,see Mr. Chamberlain's post above.)

THEY ARE NOT HELPING MAGIC, OR THOSE SEEKERS who are only motivated by "secrets:.

I have years of experience, mentoring teens. Many are now successful professionals. Some are avid amateurs. It was made clear to all of them at early meetings, that I could merely help them learn. Learning is an active process, not a passive one.

We had discussions, but, I merely recommended books by well qualified magicians, and, we discussed what they had learned.

I only mentored those who showed themselves SERIOUS. [/quote]

Kalix: Thia is my SEC0ND post on this thread, I was agreeing with my friend, Ken. I said nothing to the OP. I merely described how I mentored young teens who had expressed a serious interest.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Feb 19, 2019 05:51PM)
[quote]On Feb 11, 2019, Kaliix wrote:
Dick did nothing but crap all over the original posters idea in like four different posts. One post was enough to register his disapproval. Multiple negative posts with no real suggestions forthcoming were unnecessary.

Kindly tell me how my agreement with Ken, in which I mentioned my "method" of mentoring, or my agreeing with Dollar Bill's disagreement with Chamberlain's suggestion were "crapping all over the OP's idea "... in like four different posts."

My final contribution to the OP's thread, was "with all due respect" an attempt to help him understand a few very basic terms.

You and I have had differences of opinion, before. I've never bothered to make an issue of those differences, but, this time, I could not ignore them.

BTW, you mention that your magic club is full of old men. Do you know that that the IBM and SAM are both losing membership? Have you considered the reason?
Message: Posted by: foolsnobody (Feb 19, 2019 10:34PM)
[quote]On Feb 19, 2019, Dick Oslund wrote:
[quote]On Feb 11, 2019, Kaliix wrote:
Dick did nothing but crap all over the original posters idea in like four different posts. One post was enough to register his disapproval. Multiple negative posts with no real suggestions forthcoming were unnecessary.[/quote]
<snip>

BTW, you mention that your magic club is full of old men. Do you know that that the IBM and SAM are both losing membership? Have you considered the reason? [/quote]

The attitudes of the old-timers that Kaliix referred to were a problem in the 1960's when I quit going to magic clubs. Zero humility and a lot of "I know a secret and you don't." A lot like the old Saturday Night Live Weekend Update with Chevy Chase. I know it's a vicious circle where the "kid" might not be too humble either, but...

All I want to point out here is that a lot of older magicians in magic clubs had the same lousy attitude in 1965 that Kaliix mentioned in his post 50+ years later. But Kaliix, Dick ALWAYS uses caps for emphasis when he is sharing what he believes are important principles of magic that must be properly understood. We "internet savvy kids" recognize caps as SHOUTING but you gotta realize that Dick, like I, was born before TELEVISION and WAY before the Internet was created.
Message: Posted by: funsway (Feb 20, 2019 02:38AM)
I am a bit thrown by the phrase "register his disapproval." As an old fart I do not consider offering an alternative or challenge and idea as indicating "disapproval."

In fact, when I take time to offer a suggestion I am registering approval. Reasoned discourse is an investment of time and energy.

In many threads I see an apparent need to "impress people" or to "seek approval." Why?
If you have an idea in support of a theme or to offer a different idea for comparison, just say it without posturing or personal attack/reference.

My experience with various magic clubs over 60 years is also different, it seems.
There are those who have experience to share and attempt to mentor the learning of magic. The know that "teaching tricks" is of little value.
The there are those who demonstrate half-practiced tricks seeking some sort of ego stroke - like a Karaoke reduction of magic to Kindergarten 'show and tell.'
Age has little to do with that. I see more "lousy attitude" in the second group than in those who think learning magic takes effort.

I thought that as a kid of 13 in my first magic circle and don't see any reason to change if I should join a new club now.
I guess it is a matter of why you join a club and what you expect. If you look for bad attitude you will always find it.
I have learned something from every performance at a magic club and every comment made or withheld.

As to why membership in magic clubs and organizations is declining, I have an opinion there too.

Learning a trick is easy. Mastering a magic effect is more difficult. Developing the ability to inspire "must be magic" in the mind of an observer is tough.
Few younger people today seem willing to invest any effort into learning anything. Laziness and a concept of 'instant gratification' is the culprit.
Even if you do believe that clubs are filled with old men with bad attitudes - suffering through that is part of the work if you wish to learn magic rather than tricks.

When I see another person perform magic I am a 13 year old kid again. When I see someone mangle a trick or expect something for nothing I am made old and aloof.

Bu there is never "disapproval." That would remove the joy. In a way magic is about disagreeing. I wallow in it!
Message: Posted by: HeronsHorse (Feb 21, 2019 08:57AM)
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
~George Bernard Shaw

:D
Message: Posted by: Kaliix (Feb 21, 2019 09:45AM)
Nice quote, I think I read it somewhere...

[quote]On Feb 21, 2019, HeronsHorse wrote:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
~George Bernard Shaw

:D [/quote]
Message: Posted by: HeronsHorse (Feb 21, 2019 06:47PM)
Well, that went right over your head.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 21, 2019 11:36PM)
Yea not even close to getting it.
Message: Posted by: adrianrbf (Feb 22, 2019 05:50AM)
I might not be a professional magician, but I know a lot about teenagers and about teaching, thus let me share some thoughts.

there is so much more in teaching magic to teenagers that the antagonism "exposing secrets" and "raise new magicians". Magic is empowerment, magic is thinking outside the box, magic is a code of honour, magic is fun. It is worthwile teaching magic to teenagers even if they will not become professional magicians.

And let's be honest, there are secrets and "secrets". Every kid has an uncle who can do a "pick a card"-trick and find the picked card again with help of a key card. Revealing the key card method is not really exposing a secret. Still, it is empowerment and fun. And one could show them, that with the same principle, one can come to different effects - thus teaching them the importance of presentation.

Sticking to cards, I would also teach them some easy-to-learn flourishes. When I was a teenager, I had a lot of fun learning the Charlier cut. It is no secret, it takes some practice, but it isn't rocket science. And it can even serve as a test: Those who practise enough to master the Charlier cut are ready to work for their magical skills.
Message: Posted by: Kaliix (Feb 22, 2019 06:04AM)
Nope, gotten and played right back at you to see how many times you would respond with nonsense like you both just did. You guys are too easy... LOL

[quote]On Feb 21, 2019, HeronsHorse wrote:
Well, that went right over your head. [/quote]


[quote]On Feb 21, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Yea not even close to getting it. [/quote]

Oh and you both don't really GET the quote, which is actually even funnier.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 22, 2019 08:25AM)
Oh no we knew you knew and responded so you would respond like that. Too easy.

Your turn.

And obviously you have no idea the meaning of the quote.

My lord just stop. Because it seems like you are saying you intentionally acted ridiculous in order to get others to react to it. This is kind of the definition of trolling. Certainly you are not saying you did that.
Message: Posted by: HeronsHorse (Feb 22, 2019 09:19AM)
Oh My! :D It isn't exactly so complex that you should assume that two people don't understand it.
I'll just respond in the form of emoji from now on?
:D
:D
:P
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Feb 22, 2019 09:19AM)
Danny & Heron! This guy has demonstrated that he cannot add "1+1" !
Message: Posted by: Kaliix (Feb 22, 2019 09:27AM)
What ever dude. Your admitted "bull in a china shop" routine is [getting] old and you rarely have anything positive or "on topic" to add to any thread. Is there a post in this thread were you positive or on topic?

You think the quote applies here, but the act of being unreasonable does not automatically equate to progress. Being unreasonable can be equally detrimental to progress as well, this thread being an example. But then you likely already knew that.

Fortunately most of the negativity and condescension here was promptly ignored, as most of it should have been, and kinesis just did what he planned on doing. By all accounts, his session with these hard luck kids went well. Congratulations on that Kinesis!

[quote]On Feb 22, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Oh no we knew you knew and responded so you would respond like that. Too easy.

Your turn.

And obviously you have no idea the meaning of the quote.

My lord just stop. Because it seems like you are saying you intentionally acted ridiculous in order to get others to react to it. This is kind of the definition of trolling. Certainly you are not saying you did that. [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 22, 2019 09:49AM)
How about the post where I pointed out how you're blanket accusation of Mary was uncalled for? The very thing that made you admit you were wrong in the first place! Trolling gets you nowhere.

What is old is your trolling. You juat admitted to it. How does that help exactly?

And by the way whatever is 1 word. Just pointing it out. But I'm sure you did that on purpose.

But everyone needs to see you in the right light. You INTENTIONALLY do something ridiculous to get a response. Then you got that response, and are now ANGRY at those who responded as you supposedly intentionally caused!
Message: Posted by: HeronsHorse (Feb 22, 2019 11:13AM)
:D

:P

:magician:
Message: Posted by: adrianrbf (Feb 22, 2019 11:49AM)
[quote]On Feb 22, 2019, adrianrbf wrote:
I might not be a professional magician, but I know a lot about teenagers and about teaching, thus let me share some thoughts.

there is so much more in teaching magic to teenagers that the antagonism "exposing secrets" and "raise new magicians". Magic is empowerment, magic is thinking outside the box, magic is a code of honour, magic is fun. It is worthwile teaching magic to teenagers even if they will not become professional magicians.

And let's be honest, there are secrets and "secrets". Every kid has an uncle who can do a "pick a card"-trick and find the picked card again with help of a key card. Revealing the key card method is not really exposing a secret. Still, it is empowerment and fun. And one could show them, that with the same principle, one can come to different effects - thus teaching them the importance of presentation.

Sticking to cards, I would also teach them some easy-to-learn flourishes. When I was a teenager, I had a lot of fun learning the Charlier cut. It is no secret, it takes some practice, but it isn't rocket science. And it can even serve as a test: Those who practise enough to master the Charlier cut are ready to work for their magical skills.[/quote]

Selfquoting may be unusual, but I don't want my on-topic post to be buried in a bunch of off-topic name-calling.
Message: Posted by: Rocky (Feb 22, 2019 09:08PM)
[quote]On Feb 22, 2019, adrianrbf wrote:

Selfquoting may be unusual, but I don't want my on-topic post to be buried in a bunch of off-topic name-calling. [/quote]

This is the Magic Café...a thread rarely exists where on-topic posts aren't overshadowed by adults getting into with one another. I find it both fascinating and sad...but here I am!
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Feb 23, 2019 11:28AM)
[quote]On Feb 5, 2019, EllisJames52 wrote:
Teenager here, chiming in. ....
What if you taught something simple, like a false transfer. [/quote]

Well, that's a problem right there. A false transfer is hardly something simple.
As we all know, the REAL requirements to do a false transfer are things people work on for a very long time. The mechanics are just the beginning.

In one class you will never hit the mark on what is actually required. And what is actually required will be boring and uninteresting to the teens that just want to learn a trick or two.


I don't mind teaching something but it would have to be one of a select few things that don't give any real magic secrets away, easy to do, fun, funny, etc.
Message: Posted by: HeronsHorse (Feb 23, 2019 01:44PM)
[quote]On Feb 23, 2019, TheAmbitiousCard wrote:
[quote]On Feb 5, 2019, EllisJames52 wrote:
Teenager here, chiming in. ....
What if you taught something simple, like a false transfer. [/quote]

Well, that's a problem right there. A false transfer is hardly something simple.
As we all know, the REAL requirements to do a false transfer are things people work on for a very long time. The mechanics are just the beginning.

In one class you will never hit the mark on what is actually required. And what is actually required will be boring and uninteresting to the teens that just want to learn a trick or two.


I don't mind teaching something but it would have to be one of a select few things that don't give any real magic secrets away, easy to do, fun, funny, etc. [/quote]
I thought the same when I read that. Teaching a false transfer is also basically giving away lots of secrets in one!
You might as well not show them anything for entertainment if you've shown them the false transfer. Every time you even do a real transfer they will assume it was false!(which could be taken advantage of I suppose..!)
I'd show them how to hold a pencil like it is stuck to your hand. You know, the old way of holding your wrist with the other hand and having a finger hold the pencil?! I actually got people with that last week and I was only showing it to my family cos I read it in an ancient book and it reminded me of how I used to fool kids with it in primary school. I was showing them as a kind of mockery, yet they fell for it!! Wow :D
I'd probably not teach actual secrets, just simple stuff like that or some mathematical self worker with cards.
Message: Posted by: Kaliix (Feb 23, 2019 02:12PM)
I like Mary and her posts. I have no desire to pull her into this. You need to read what was written and to whom it was written. You did not point out MY blanket accusation of Mary, that was your post to Kinesis. Unfortunately, the post that Mary initially made [quote]On Feb 5, 2019, Mary Mowder wrote:
I've been asked on multiple occasions to just teach a few tricks ( in a one hour, one time class) . I always decline and tell them that Magic takes a serious commitment and that one lesson is a set up for embarrassment. I 'm sure they just call the next name on the list.

-Mary Mowder [/quote]

was not exactly positive. She indicated that she would never take that kind of job, as magic takes a "serious commitment" and that situation would be "embarrassing". The "next person on the list" comment indicates that all though she would never stoop to be a part of that embarrassment, someone, namely the guy who made the original post would. That is a back handed way of saying that Kinesis would take on an embarrassing job that she has indicated is below her. She also noted that she wouldn't take money from a situation where "I know most in the group will not be well served." A not so subtle way of indicating that she believed the situation Kinesis was asking about would be a failure.

Also, I wasn't trolling anyone. My response to the posting of my tagline was simply to say that I'd read it somewhere before. No swipes at anyone, no negativity, just me saying that I was acknowledging the likely origin of the post (reading my tagline). Sure I finally succumbed to the dark side after that and trolled a bit, but that was after a perfectly benign response where both you and Heron just had to chime/troll in.

You are a hypocritical troll master Danny, so spare me you righteous trolling indignation. I tried to help answer the question, you still haven't. Kinesis apparently thought what I wrote was helpful. Your comments clearly were not.

My graduate teaching degree has allowed me to teach teenagers on a daily basis for the last 15 years. I feel pretty comfortable weighing on on how to teach them because I have the modern experience and training to back that opinion up. That's part of my frustration with the approach that a lot of they naysayers on this thread took. I have no problem respecting the art, demonstrating commitment and being serious. That's all well and good, but you gotta hook them first. The class Kinesis was talking about was an intro course. That environment needs to be positive, fun and enjoyable. Before any teenager is going to listen to you talk about respect and commitment, they need to be invested in the magic first. There is little harm in teaching them a simple public domain trick like the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Circus_Card_Trick]circus card trick[/url] to get their feet wet and experience the rush of both performing and fooling someone. You can't get them to care until they get hooked and get the magic bug. Once that happens, those teenagers will start to care about the important stuff that was mentioned, but not until then.


[quote]On Feb 22, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
How about the post where I pointed out how you're blanket accusation of Mary was uncalled for? The very thing that made you admit you were wrong in the first place! Trolling gets you nowhere.

What is old is your trolling. You juat admitted to it. How does that help exactly?

And by the way whatever is 1 word. Just pointing it out. But I'm sure you did that on purpose.

But everyone needs to see you in the right light. You INTENTIONALLY do something ridiculous to get a response. Then you got that response, and are now ANGRY at those who responded as you supposedly intentionally caused! [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 23, 2019 02:20PM)
Hilariously pathetic excuses.

How silly claiming somehow you "succumbed" and started trolling. You were trolling and it is as simple as that.

Yes it is easier to call me one to mitigate your actions even further in your mind. Nobody is being indignant, b simply pointing out your behavior. Doing so does not qualify as trolling as desperate as you are for that to be true.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Feb 23, 2019 03:29PM)
Well, Danny & Heron! It IS a challenge to try to discuss anything with someone who can't add 1 + 1 and, arrive at 2 not 4.
Message: Posted by: HeronsHorse (Feb 24, 2019 04:13AM)
My graduate teaching degree blah blah blah.
Why are you even bothering to keep this going? To tell about your degree? Or show a new level of emotional insecurity?

Jeeeeeez.

Yes Dick, you're right. :D
Message: Posted by: Kaliix (Feb 24, 2019 08:36AM)
No excuse, I did troll. So did you, many more times than I did I might add. But I also made several points that I've seen no attempt from you to discuss or rebut. You are just pounding the table and proving that you have nothing to add to the topic or discussion.

[quote]On Feb 23, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Hilariously pathetic excuses.

How silly claiming somehow you "succumbed" and started trolling. You were trolling and it is as simple as that.

Yes it is easier to call me one to mitigate your actions even further in your mind. Nobody is being indignant, b simply pointing out your behavior. Doing so does not qualify as trolling as desperate as you are for that to be true. [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Feb 25, 2019 04:01PM)
Well, Kaliix, I do not have a "graduate teaching degree"! Since the early '50s, I have never taught anyone, magic. I have mentored dozens. I've mentioned some names like Henning, McAllister, Windley. There are many others who are now successful performers.

I always told them, "I can't teach you anything! I can only help you learn!" --And, I did.

An old Greek philosopher, Sophocles, said, a few millenia ago, that, "One learns by doing the thing."

Those that convinced me that they wanted to learn, how to perform magic, were counseled, and guided in what books to study. (Not just books with methods of tricks, but books on showmanship (Nelms et al) and, principles (Tarbell)). We discussed performing techniques, presentation, tempo, timing and time, etc. They began to realize that, magic is not inherently entertaining! They began to realize that tricks are but tools that magicians use to entertain. Those things cannot be learned in a three hour session.

Some of them, I later helped get work. They are now successful, and. thankful.
Message: Posted by: imgic (Feb 27, 2019 08:53PM)
[quote]On Feb 25, 2019, Dick Oslund wrote:
Those things cannot be learned in a three hour session.
[/quote]

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 27, 2019 11:28PM)
[quote]On Feb 27, 2019, imgic wrote:
[quote]On Feb 25, 2019, Dick Oslund wrote:
Those things cannot be learned in a three hour session.
[/quote]

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. [/quote]

True enough. But it does not ONLY take a single step.
Message: Posted by: funsway (Feb 28, 2019 07:23AM)
[quote]On Feb 27, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:

True enough. But it does not ONLY take a single step. [/quote]

Yup - even if one must use a cane. I am forever introducing performance magic as a hobby, discipline or profession.

I do not want nay reader to think I do not tech tricks to kids or seniors, or later attempt to morph that into performing magic.

My early comments on this thread were guided by my interpretation of the OP and the phrase "been asked."
Never did get an answer as to who did the asking - and important factor in deciding what, where or if.

Often the first step is to perform a magic effect and refuse to perform tricks or dance on a puppet string.
That first step can be the planting of a seed. You can then wait for the proof of interest in the observed fruit.

There is no way of knowing how many can watch Danny's show and later become interested in magic.
But, we can know it happens ...
Message: Posted by: vincentmusician (Mar 26, 2021 01:56AM)
I do not teach Magic to anyone. When Magic is revealed, it destroys the mystery and wonder. Nobody taught me. I had to learn everything myself. I was at a Magic shop and someone told this beginner Magician that I was very good and he ask me what tricks I do. I said, if you think Magic is about learning tricks, you are wrong. The Magic is about you. If you are a good entertainer, you can entertain without any Magic Tricks.
Message: Posted by: davidpaul$ (Mar 26, 2021 09:10AM)
[quote]On Mar 26, 2021, vincentmusician wrote:
I do not teach Magic to anyone. When Magic is revealed, it destroys the mystery and wonder. Nobody taught me. I had to learn everything myself. I was at a Magic shop and someone told this beginner Magician that I was very good and he ask me what tricks I do. I said, if you think Magic is about learning tricks, you are wrong. The Magic is about you. If you are a good entertainer, you can entertain without any Magic Tricks. [/quote]

:applause:
Message: Posted by: EZrhythm (May 21, 2021 03:43PM)
[quote]On Feb 6, 2019, TKD27 wrote:
I'll teach anyone magic. I just don't see the problem.

James Munton sells a DVD on doing a magic class as a birthday party show. It's aimed at kids in the 8-12ish range, but it might be useful for you.

Tricks I love to teach include:

- Key Card Trick
- Mind Reading Crayons where you scrape the wax with your finger nail
- Two Card Monte (I have my own branded give aways for this, but you can teach it to kids by having them glue cards together).
- Linking Paper Clips

For really young kids (under eight), far and away my favorite trick for them is a coin slide. You know - the cheap plastic toy that you put a quarter in to whole then insert it in a sleeve and vanishes. It's completely self working and they basically fool themselves with it all day long, it's wonderful. [/quote]

^ ^ THIS! ^ ^ Quite excellent, Matt. Some people are just WAY to uptight about magic secrets where there are PLENTY of good tricks to teach. And also as mentioned earlier- The Jaw Droppers videos are a great resource.
Message: Posted by: EZrhythm (May 21, 2021 04:04PM)
[quote]On Feb 18, 2019, Dick Oslund wrote:
With all due respect to your age, and professional experience, kinesis, I think that you should KNOW how to mentor teenagers.

[/quote]

Yet that isn't what he asked.
:blackeye:
Message: Posted by: EZrhythm (May 21, 2021 04:22PM)
[quote]On Feb 22, 2019, adrianrbf wrote:
I might not be a professional magician, but I know a lot about teenagers and about teaching, thus let me share some thoughts.

there is so much more in teaching magic to teenagers that the antagonism "exposing secrets" and "raise new magicians". Magic is empowerment, magic is thinking outside the box, magic is a code of honour, magic is fun. It is worthwile teaching magic to teenagers even if they will not become professional magicians.

And let's be honest, there are secrets and "secrets". Every kid has an uncle who can do a "pick a card"-trick and find the picked card again with help of a key card. Revealing the key card method is not really exposing a secret. Still, it is empowerment and fun. And one could show them, that with the same principle, one can come to different effects - thus teaching them the importance of presentation.

Sticking to cards, I would also teach them some easy-to-learn flourishes. When I was a teenager, I had a lot of fun learning the Charlier cut. It is no secret, it takes some practice, but it isn't rocket science. And it can even serve as a test: Those who practise enough to master the Charlier cut are ready to work for their magical skills. [/quote]

VERY WELL PUT, Adrian! I remember learning the Charlier Cut also!
Message: Posted by: EZrhythm (May 21, 2021 05:01PM)
[quote]On Feb 23, 2019, HeronsHorse wrote:
Teaching a false transfer is also basically giving away lots of secrets in one!
[/quote]

Wasn't there a magician on Penn and Teller's, Fool Us that taught a false transfer to the audience and then went on to use it in his act, fooling everyone anyway?