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Topic: Help with Twisting the Aces
Message: Posted by: supremefiction (Feb 16, 2019 07:27AM)
If someone could kindly give me some guidance, I would greatly appreciate it.

It seems that the opening moves of Twisting the Aces are 1) triple lift, 2) turn packet face up, 3) turn bottom card of packet face up and replace on bottom, 4) turn packet face up. Thus you get the starting position of (from top) face down Ace, face up Ace, face up Ace, and face down Ace.

I do not like this sequence. Can someone suggest alternate(s)?

Thanks in advance.
Message: Posted by: Rupert Pupkin (Feb 16, 2019 07:52AM)
First, you're going to have to tell us what you don't like about it and what you'd prefer to see in an alternative.
Message: Posted by: Sixten (Feb 16, 2019 08:29AM)
Anywho, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDciO3AtvpQ (If you know this version, sorry. If not, can be found on his: 'ETMCM' Vol. 2)

The patter makes sense, & I have never been caught, or questioned.
Message: Posted by: warren (Feb 16, 2019 09:48AM)
Take a look at The Asher Twist for an interesting and very magical variation.
Message: Posted by: supremefiction (Feb 16, 2019 11:16AM)
I don't like it because I think 2 and 3 look suspicious/unnatural. I'm looking for something that looks less suspect. Thanks again for any suggestions.
Message: Posted by: lynnef (Feb 16, 2019 01:07PM)
As Sixten says, the patter "makes sense", and is part of the trick. The Asher Twist, as a sleight, can be used for this trick and others, but you still need the patter. If you really think it "looks suspicious" when you perform it, it will look suspicious. On the other hand, isn't a lot of magic suspicious by nature? Why are we twisting the cards anyway? I perform the classic, but the Asher Twist would be worth looking into as something you might want. Lee Asher is one of the VIP's in the Café btw! Have fun! Lynn
Message: Posted by: IncantoMagic (Feb 16, 2019 01:07PM)
I think the thing here is to justify the actions. The triple lift is fine. As you remove the top card and do the wrist kill, you say something along the lines of "I'm not going to do it in such an obvious way". The reason for the wrist kill is to show that you are putting the top card facing the same way as the rest of the packet.

To clarify, I don't beleive I do this sequence the same way you do. I do the Triple Lift, Then I take the top card as I wrist kill with the left hand, flashing the bottom card, as I reverse the top card, and square the packet.

Another option, that Im not sure is super viable, is to use some combination of half pass and mechanical reverse, or just two half passes, to get the middle to cards face up.
Message: Posted by: Kaliix (Feb 16, 2019 03:40PM)
This is not the opening to Twisting the Aces as taught on ETMCM V2. It starts with a triple turnover, followed by turning the now face up AS on top of the pack over, so it's face down. Now the trick begins with Elmsley's...

[quote]On Feb 16, 2019, supremefiction wrote:
If someone could kindly give me some guidance, I would greatly appreciate it.

It seems that the opening moves of Twisting the Aces are 1) triple lift, 2) turn packet face up, 3) turn bottom card of packet face up and replace on bottom, 4) turn packet face up. Thus you get the starting position of (from top) face down Ace, face up Ace, face up Ace, and face down Ace.

I do not like this sequence. Can someone suggest alternate(s)?

Thanks in advance. [/quote]
Message: Posted by: warren (Feb 16, 2019 04:52PM)
[quote]On Feb 16, 2019, lynnef wrote:
As Sixten says, the patter "makes sense", and is part of the trick. The Asher Twist, as a sleight, can be used for this trick and others, but you still need the patter. If you really think it "looks suspicious" when you perform it, it will look suspicious. On the other hand, isn't a lot of magic suspicious by nature? Why are we twisting the cards anyway? I perform the classic, but the Asher Twist would be worth looking into as something you might want. Lee Asher is one of the VIP's in the Café btw! Have fun! Lynn [/quote]

The reason for me suggesting lee Asher's variation ie The Asher Twist is because the Op mentioned that he wasn't comfortable with setting up the effect in order to begin Twisting The Aces ie that was the part that looked suspicious where as with The Asher Twist there is no set up you just display the cards and away you go plus it has the nice kicker finish at the end where all the cards turn over at once.
Message: Posted by: supremefiction (Feb 17, 2019 07:22AM)
Thank you to all, your comments have helped me focus.

Sixten: I think the move Ammar makes at 0:23 is too obvious.

Warren: I think you solved my problem. I can get at least one card reversed quite easily with this.

lynnef: "If you really think it "looks suspicious" when you perform it, it will look suspicious." Not sure I agree. However, Incanto's and your points are very well taken about using patter to cover/justify actions.

Incanto: the mechanical reverse is viable, thanks!

One other thought--switch in a reversed fifth card while still holding the deck to use as a "dummy" face down ace; could reverse this card with some kind of double lift reverse prior to switch in.

Im still thinking Jack Parker or Earick or someone equally sneaky has come up with a solution for this.

Again, much appreciated.
Message: Posted by: dj (Feb 17, 2019 11:09AM)
For me, this is the most direct "Twisting the Aces" routine:
https://youtu.be/PuDkq0oDi8Y
Message: Posted by: Yehuda (Feb 17, 2019 12:28PM)
[quote]On Feb 16, 2019, supremefiction wrote:
I don't like it because I think 2 and 3 look suspicious/unnatural. I'm looking for something that looks less suspect. Thanks again for any suggestions. [/quote]
Check out Jason England's At the Table Lecture. He teaches his handling of Twisting the Aces and the setup is similar to the original, but I think he tweaks and motivates the actions better.

Yehuda
Message: Posted by: jcroop (Feb 17, 2019 02:41PM)
In a variation of Twisting the Aces, John Cornelius eliminates the suspicion of the triple in Marked for Life by doing it behind the back mimicking how his "uncle" turned a card face down. It fits in perfectly with his patter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj5DX3zJ5tw
Message: Posted by: warren (Feb 17, 2019 04:27PM)
[quote]On Feb 17, 2019, dj wrote:
For me, this is the most direct "Twisting the Aces" routine:
https://youtu.be/PuDkq0oDi8Y [/quote]

dj that is indeed an excellent way to go into Twisting The Aces very nice :)
Message: Posted by: Sixten (Feb 17, 2019 04:55PM)
It is a truly wonderful version. Mr. dj is a very talented magician. :)
Message: Posted by: Rupert Pupkin (Feb 17, 2019 05:30PM)
[quote]On Feb 17, 2019, dj wrote:
For me, this is the most direct "Twisting the Aces" routine:
https://youtu.be/PuDkq0oDi8Y [/quote]

Is there a reason you would opt for counts over spreads?
Message: Posted by: supremefiction (Feb 17, 2019 05:42PM)
A like the dj routine also. That is more along the line I was thinking of. Thanks.
Message: Posted by: lynnef (Feb 17, 2019 10:01PM)
Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I really like patter in magic... and not just for misdirection (although this is a factor). It's about the 'story", even if it's mime! Lynn
Message: Posted by: warren (Feb 18, 2019 02:06AM)
[quote]On Feb 17, 2019, lynnef wrote:
Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I really like patter in magic... and not just for misdirection (although this is a factor). It's about the 'story", even if it's mime! Lynn [/quote]


I agree completely however the method was very good and I think that was the point being made.
Message: Posted by: dj (Feb 18, 2019 08:17AM)
[quote]On Feb 17, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote:
[quote]On Feb 17, 2019, dj wrote:
For me, this is the most direct "Twisting the Aces" routine:
https://youtu.be/PuDkq0oDi8Y [/quote]

Is there a reason you would opt for counts over spreads? [/quote]
I do not understand what exactly do you mean?
Message: Posted by: Rupert Pupkin (Feb 18, 2019 10:45AM)
[quote]On Feb 18, 2019, dj wrote:
[quote]On Feb 17, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote:
[quote]On Feb 17, 2019, dj wrote:
For me, this is the most direct "Twisting the Aces" routine:
https://youtu.be/PuDkq0oDi8Y [/quote]

Is there a reason you would opt for counts over spreads? [/quote]
I do not understand what exactly do you mean? [/quote]

Apologies if I wasn’t clear.

In your version, you’re opting for one-at-a-time counts over simply spreading the four cards (as in, for example, Asher’s version). Is there a reason for that?

I ask because, based on your "most direct" comment, I assumed this effect is something you'd seriously mulled over. Just curious.
Message: Posted by: dj (Feb 18, 2019 10:56AM)
[quote]On Feb 18, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote:
[quote]On Feb 18, 2019, dj wrote:
[quote]On Feb 17, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote:
[quote]On Feb 17, 2019, dj wrote:
For me, this is the most direct "Twisting the Aces" routine:
https://youtu.be/PuDkq0oDi8Y [/quote]

Is there a reason you would opt for counts over spreads? [/quote]
I do not understand what exactly do you mean? [/quote]

Apologies if I wasn’t clear.

In your version, you’re opting for one-at-a-time counts over simply spreading the four cards (as in, for example, Asher’s version). Is there a reason for that?
[/quote]
Yes, there is a reason for that.
Message: Posted by: Rupert Pupkin (Feb 18, 2019 12:06PM)
Cool! That is?
Message: Posted by: lynnef (Feb 19, 2019 01:59PM)
[quote]On Feb 18, 2019, warren wrote:
[quote]On Feb 17, 2019, lynnef wrote:
Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I really like patter in magic... and not just for misdirection (although this is a factor). It's about the 'story", even if it's mime! Lynn [/quote]


I agree completely however the method was very good and I think that was the point being made. [/quote]

And I agree with you as well! The method was more than very good. I just didn't want the idea of the patter/story to fall by the wayside. Even if its a sprinkle of goober dust. Lynn
Message: Posted by: warren (Feb 20, 2019 02:07AM)
[quote]On Feb 19, 2019, lynnef wrote:
[quote]On Feb 18, 2019, warren wrote:
[quote]On Feb 17, 2019, lynnef wrote:
Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I really like patter in magic... and not just for misdirection (although this is a factor). It's about the 'story", even if it's mime! Lynn [/quote]


I agree completely however the method was very good and I think that was the point being made. [/quote]

And I agree with you as well! The method was more than very good. I just didn't want the idea of the patter/story to fall by the wayside. Even if its a sprinkle of goober dust. Lynn [/quote]

I also agree with you totally usually if I watch a video someone has put and it's done to music especially close up magic I immediately stop watching as I find it really boring as nobody in the real world performs that way for the public.
Message: Posted by: dj (Jul 14, 2019 03:19PM)
Here is my version with four cards, any four cards the spectator has selected.
The spectator selects four cards (no force), he touches the four cards in the deck.
Then follows Twisting the Aces routine with four selected cards.

The video is in german language:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQFkKv08IIQ


Darko
Message: Posted by: Andy Moss (Jul 15, 2019 08:44AM)
A more interesting premise than simply having aces flip face down is to have a certain card such as a Joker transform into (and back again from) all the other cards.

I commend to you Max Maven's classic 'MASQUE' .

If you are already proficient at the basic moves required for the Dai Vernon original Max Maven's effect will not take you long to master and it remains completely impromptu using just four ordinary cards from any borrowed deck.

Introduce a hidden card and more opportunities are then open to you. You could then change tack and move along the lines of another great classic called 'Bullet Party'.
Message: Posted by: larotule (Jul 29, 2019 08:53AM)
[quote]On Feb 17, 2019, Yehuda wrote:
[quote]On Feb 16, 2019, supremefiction wrote:
I don't like it because I think 2 and 3 look suspicious/unnatural. I'm looking for something that looks less suspect. Thanks again for any suggestions. [/quote]
Check out Jason England's At the Table Lecture. He teaches his handling of Twisting the Aces and the setup is similar to the original, but I think he tweaks and motivates the actions better.

Yehuda [/quote]


Yeah ! for me this is the best twisting the aces ever !
Message: Posted by: bobmag56 (Aug 9, 2019 08:50AM)
I still like the original handling in the Dia Vernon book.
Message: Posted by: dirtyrussian (Aug 12, 2019 06:32PM)
Very nice work Darko !
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Aug 21, 2019 04:45PM)
Hi Darko, that's a sensible approach, to start with a display of the cards as you turn them over. And thanks for posting the video.
Message: Posted by: dj (Aug 22, 2019 01:32PM)
Thanks.


Darko
Message: Posted by: Mike.Bonner (Aug 23, 2019 01:29PM)
Chris Wood, in the 'at the table' lecture gives a great demonstration of twisting the aces. Not only that, most importantly he talks a lot about Vernon and the theory behind why this is such a powerful effect. Worth a watch, for the theory alone. This might make the OP more comfortable in justifying the first move.
Message: Posted by: Msoriano (Sep 24, 2019 01:58PM)
Hello. Juan Tamariz solved the three questions by asking the spectator one simple question. He asked the spectator What would you do to put the first two cards back to back?. The answer always is...By turning over the top card. You then do the TL and then you do 2 and 3, holding the Ace of Spades and showing that , yes, both cards are back to back. Then you turn over the ace of spades again and you're ready.
Message: Posted by: terrillific (Oct 14, 2019 07:21PM)
Tomas Blomberg has an excellent version of Twisting the Aces in his book, Blomberg Labortories called "One Behead".
Message: Posted by: supremefiction (Nov 15, 2019 12:56PM)
I appreciate the suggestions, thanks to all.
Message: Posted by: dj (Nov 15, 2019 04:52PM)
[quote]On Aug 21, 2019, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Hi Darko, that's a sensible approach, to start with a display of the cards as you turn them over. And thanks for posting the video. [/quote]

For me personally, my Twisting the Aces is the absolute most direct Twisting the Aces routine.


Darko