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Topic: Mnemonica Trainer by Rick Lax
Message: Posted by: Magic KL (Mar 9, 2019 06:42PM)
I was just thinking that Rick Lax hasn't released anything for quite some time. Well, here it is:

http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/11618

The only product desciption they have now is this:

18+ only. This product uses imagery that is intentionally absurd, and inappropriate in polite company, and as a result is absolutely not for kids or the sensitive minded.
Message: Posted by: egoli (Mar 9, 2019 09:04PM)
Pre-order - not released yet - but 24 reviews from "verified buyers" - all freebies??
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (Mar 9, 2019 09:35PM)
There is a download, and they will send the flash cards which can help but are not necessary to work the system.

Rick uses a memory system which I used decades ago to memorize the Aronson Stack. I learned it from Kevin Trudeau, and he certainly didn’t invent it.

The foundational system worked amazingly well for me. I have no doubt most people will be stunned how quickly cards fall into place. But there is a catch. If you don’t think like Rick Lax and have his knowledge base of trivial things used to create his version of the system, then you will have to work a little harder in memorizing or in creating your own images. Do you know the top score for an ACT? Do you know your presidents by number? Do you know how many chromosomes in DNA?

Fortunately, most of you will hear one of Rick’s images which doesn’t work for you and you will think, “It should be...” and just like that you are creating your own images and making the system work even better for you.
Message: Posted by: TheBentos (Mar 10, 2019 06:23AM)
Over the years, I tried a few different “systems” to learn a stack.
However, the only way I really learnt was simply just to memorise the cards and numbers.
I probably learnt mnemonica in a month, at say 1-2 hours per day.
I think I learnt 13 cards a week, don’t try to learn all at once.
I found that the phone apps help to keep you topped up, and now I just know it.

This may work for some, everyone is different learning and retaining information
Message: Posted by: otreboR (Mar 10, 2019 06:49AM)
Does his system work in any language?
Message: Posted by: alee7371 (Mar 10, 2019 09:12AM)
I ordered it on Friday and it was in my downloads right away, his technique for learning the stack is pretty good. I know the first 10 already with hardly putting much effort into it. I do believe it would work with any language. Rick uses a combination of visual images to solidify the stack in your memory. Some of the images utilize American culture but I don't think it would be that hard to substitute other visualization images from your country.
Message: Posted by: Waterloophai (Mar 10, 2019 09:36AM)
[quote]On Mar 10, 2019, alee7371 wrote:
I know the first 10 already with hardly putting much effort into it [/quote]
And you will evenly quick forget the first 10 with hardly putting much effort into it.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Mar 10, 2019 09:39AM)
For people who having nothing better to do in their spare time.
Message: Posted by: Waterloophai (Mar 10, 2019 09:53AM)
[quote]On Mar 10, 2019, Waterloophai wrote:
[quote]On Mar 10, 2019, alee7371 wrote:
I know the first 10 already with hardly putting much effort into it [/quote]
And you will evenly quick forget the first 10 with hardly putting much effort into it. [/quote]
These 10 cards are currently in your short-term memory. They still have to go to your long-term memory.
Short-term memories can become long-term memory via consolidation and repetition to become fixed. (In reality, that process is even much more complicated, but that would be too technical here.)
It is a process of months and sometimes for some more than a year.
Do not believe people who claim anything else. (they are cheap sales stunts)
Hence the many disappointments of many magicians who once started to learn an MD.
There is a big difference between learning an MD (which is possible in a relatively short time) and KEEP memorized it FOREVER.
A memory-artist can learn a deck of cards in less than 30sec. but he has not to KEEP that information afterwards.
That's the big difference between memory artists and magicians who want to work with a MD.
I always have to smile when I read on forums claims like this: "after 2 hours I already knew my MD".
After a few months they will discover that it was overconfidence.

After more than 40 years of working with an MD and many having learned it, I found out that an MD is not for everyone.
Simon Aronson came to the exact same conclusion in recent years.
Message: Posted by: erichoudini (Mar 10, 2019 10:39AM)
I am considering purchasing the pre-order Rick Lax MD effect. I am wondering how people familiar with his method would rank it in terms of difficulty from 1-10 with 1 being easy? If not this MD, what other methods would you suggest? Thanks for any suggestions you might provide.
Eric.
Message: Posted by: alee7371 (Mar 10, 2019 10:51AM)
While I have not gone through the whole video due to lack of time, I do believe this is a usable system because Lax has created a system that utilizes different pictures and images in a creative way that associates both the card and number. I am actually encouraged that this is a practical system to memorize a stack. While I agree it is difficult to memorize a stack I think time will only tell. No doubt you will have to put some time into it, but its a pretty practical method.

To go through the video I would say its only a 3-4, to know the entire content in a usable manner will take practice. Practice, practice and practice.
Message: Posted by: erichoudini (Mar 10, 2019 11:03AM)
Thank you for the feedback alee7371.
Eric.
Message: Posted by: Waterloophai (Mar 10, 2019 11:04AM)
[quote]On Mar 10, 2019, alee7371 wrote:
While I agree it is difficult to memorize a stack I think time will only tell.[/quote]

I think you misunderstood me. It is NOT difficult to memorize a stack. (that's what they advertize and which is true)
It is VERY difficult to KEEP it memorized. That is a totally different thing.(that's what they keep quite and never tell)
Message: Posted by: Waterloophai (Mar 10, 2019 11:23AM)
It is not my intention to break down the flash cards of Rick Lax.
But the truth has to be said, because the concept of a memorized deck is too dear to me.
Flash cards are not a bad learning tool (although, but one of many possibilities).
But ... flash cards you have to make YOURSELF with "images" that you have fantasized YOURSELF.
If you learn flash cards from someone else, you lose an important part of the learning process.
Conclusion: flash cards made by someone else can indeed be a learning tool, but are far from ideal. I even doubt that someone who does not even have the creativity to make flash cards HIMSELF, is the right person to learn an MD. (but the latter is a personal opinion)
Let it be very clear: I have nothing against Rick Lax. On the contrary. Normally his products are very good and he is a (very) good teacher (but no expert in the memorized deck like me :-) ).
About this product (the efficiency of it), I have my reservations.
Message: Posted by: Axman (Mar 10, 2019 11:33AM)
[quote]On Mar 10, 2019, pegasus wrote:
For people who having nothing better to do in their spare time. [/quote]

Or people who strive for excellence in everything they do
Message: Posted by: alee7371 (Mar 10, 2019 12:10PM)
FYI no flash cards need to be created, Lax has created a picture association with each card and number for you to use.
I agree that the best flash cards are the ones you make yourself because it is personal in nature and you are more likely to remember it and associate it with things that are important to you.
I'm not saying that this video is the absolute but its a good start- but at the end of the day, with any good magic, you must put the time and energy into it.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Mar 10, 2019 12:23PM)
[quote]On Mar 10, 2019, Axman wrote:
[quote]On Mar 10, 2019, pegasus wrote:
For people who having nothing better to do in their spare time. [/quote]

Or people who strive for excellence in everything they do [/quote]

By taking shortcuts. Makes sense.
Message: Posted by: erichoudini (Mar 10, 2019 12:43PM)
I know that the Rick Lax mnemonics effect is a pre-order so I assume that the flash cards will be sent out when the trick is released. I am wondering if I purchase the effect as a pre-order if Rick immediately posts something I can do to start learning the method and or, elaborates on how to construct flash cards so I can start learning immediately? Any information would be appreciated.
Eric.
Message: Posted by: Tempesta (Mar 10, 2019 01:37PM)
Why is this 18+???
Message: Posted by: Magic KL (Mar 10, 2019 02:03PM)
I assume it's the "story" that you need to remember involves sexual and/or violence content.
Message: Posted by: paperinick (Mar 10, 2019 04:45PM)
[quote]On Mar 10, 2019, Waterloophai wrote:
It is not my intention to break down the flash cards of Rick Lax.
But the truth has to be said, because the concept of a memorized deck is too dear to me.
Flash cards are not a bad learning tool (although, but one of many possibilities).
But ... flash cards you have to make YOURSELF with "images" that you have fantasized YOURSELF.
If you learn flash cards from someone else, you lose an important part of the learning process.
Conclusion: flash cards made by someone else can indeed be a learning tool, but are far from ideal. I even doubt that someone who does not even have the creativity to make flash cards HIMSELF, is the right person to learn an MD. (but the latter is a personal opinion)
Let it be very clear: I have nothing against Rick Lax. On the contrary. Normally his products are very good and he is a (very) good teacher (but no expert in the memorized deck like me :-) ).
About this product (the efficiency of it), I have my reservations. [/quote]
I agree, if it's not personal it won't help unless some of the images kind of relate to yourself.
We will see.
I am down to 26 cards with the peg method, but I realized that the images will fade while the associations card number still stick.
Message: Posted by: alee7371 (Mar 10, 2019 04:57PM)
Just to clarify no flash cards need to be made using Lax's method. He has created images and associations that make it easier to remember which is all on the video.
Though I do believe this works I guess only time will tell.
Message: Posted by: no2ss (Mar 10, 2019 07:17PM)
[quote]On Mar 10, 2019, Waterloophai wrote:
It is not my intention to break down the flash cards of Rick Lax.
But the truth has to be said, because the concept of a memorized deck is too dear to me.
Flash cards are not a bad learning tool (although, but one of many possibilities).
But ... flash cards you have to make YOURSELF with "images" that you have fantasized YOURSELF.
If you learn flash cards from someone else, you lose an important part of the learning process.
Conclusion: flash cards made by someone else can indeed be a learning tool, but are far from ideal. I even doubt that someone who does not even have the creativity to make flash cards HIMSELF, is the right person to learn an MD. (but the latter is a personal opinion)
Let it be very clear: I have nothing against Rick Lax. On the contrary. Normally his products are very good and he is a (very) good teacher (but no expert in the memorized deck like me :-) ).
About this product (the efficiency of it), I have my reservations. [/quote]

I agree. This can work, but I think the more personal, the better. That said, this could still work for some. I picked up The Memory Arts last year when I decided I wanted to start doing MD work and I found it a useful introduction on creating a memory palace, but I didn't use their images. Rather, I used their ideas to then create one for me, involving stuff I know already (a trail I walk nearly every day), and that's proven to be much more useful long term. The book was still useful to me in grasping the concepts, but then you need to make it your own to get it to stick. If people can do that with Rick's system, that could be useful (though, frankly, I like the idea of using a broader memory palace, because then I can use it for other memory work, or multiple MD stacks).
Message: Posted by: boinko (Mar 10, 2019 09:41PM)
I wholeheartedly recommend this.

Essentially -- and I'm not giving anything away here -- this method creates an image for the card (including the suit) as well as the *position in the deck* for the card. What's interesting -- and what I find, actually, pretty powerful is that it doesn't rely on a "memory journey" like Memory Arts. You memorize the image for the value -- and then you combine that image with an *action* and then an image for the position. So for each card you have a (a) value image, (b) an action, (c) and a position image. You could call it 'VAP' (as opposed to PAO for full deck mem work). So long as you memorize the V image for each card -- and know the images for each P -- you'll automatically get it. You know, for example, that the 4 of clubs is in position 1 because, well, you know what the 4 is -- and you know what the suit is (or, actually *does* -- the action of the clubs) -- and you know what position the suit is doing its work on. The suit is the verb (or noun, in the case of a diamond) -- but it's the suit that always links to the position.

Rick teaches the V's first -- the images for the values -- and then goes through each card in the stack order to produce the full VAP. The "A" is a verb in the case of clubs, hearts, spades -- and a noun in the case of a diamond. But that's fine. It's visual enough -- and effective enough -- that the suit always feels like an "action".

Really -- this is very, very good. I wanted to like the Memory Arts -- and I memorized the journey -- but I always felt (for me, at least) it was an effort. This, on the other hand, clicked. And within 48 hours, I had the whole deck down.

Now, I'm using the mnemonica trainer app (not Rick's) to get up to speed on my iphone.

BTW -- I like the odd, off-color images. (The 2 of hearts, for example.) Offensive? Yeah -- sure -- but the more offensive and bizarre and "dirty" an image is (I'll always go over the top with the 6, for example) -- the more it will always, always, always stick in your mind. Offensive is good. It sticks. That's how you memorize this stuff. If it's offensive, you remember. If it's benign, you forget. It's that simple.
Message: Posted by: Poof-Daddy (Mar 11, 2019 07:35AM)
I ordered it to try. To be fair, I have tried many systems thru many years. Harry Lorayne’s system never clicked. It was the first I tried using his books and even audiobooks of his book several times while driving truck cross country. I tried Mnemonica method from the book, no luck there. Aronson, same outcome. Even just repeating over and over didn’t get it. But, The Memory Arts Book clicked “[b]FOR ME[/b]”. They even tell you you can replace their images with graphic, adult, NSFW... images of your own and that does help IMO. I also use the “Ultimate (Aronson, Mnemonica) Trainer” apps. The stack I chose to learn thru the Memory Arts Method was Aronson but I will give these a shot at learning Mnemonica.

I think people should keep trying different methods until they find what works. I know I can still use Memory Arts to learn Mnemonica but for the price, I am totally willing to give this a try and if nothing else, I will be informed of yet another methods pros and cons. :-)

I look forward to the journey.
Message: Posted by: Martin.Lester (Mar 11, 2019 07:36AM)
Strange a Download is on Pre Order even though it already has 23 Reviews !
Message: Posted by: Poof-Daddy (Mar 11, 2019 07:41AM)
[quote]On Mar 11, 2019, Martin.Lester wrote:
Strange a Download is on Pre Order even though it already has 23 Reviews ! [/quote]
As posted before in this thread early on, you get the download and teachings immediately upon ordering, you are just waiting for the actual cards to be shipped. You can get enough of an idea from the download to post initial thoughts as a review.
Message: Posted by: erichoudini (Mar 11, 2019 08:13AM)
Thanks for the information and insights Poof-Daddy.
Eric.
Message: Posted by: Tempesta (Mar 11, 2019 02:06PM)
I actually have always gone against the grain with regards to the Mnemonica/Aronson/Memory Arts/Solution approach to memorization--I went old school and had a lot of luck with he Joyal 6-hour memorized deck.

In the Joyal, there's some really good integration between the card and why it is at the position it is at--for instance, the 4S is 4th, and going in multiples and Suited "points", the 4H is at the 8th position--which makes for a pretty simple rules system.

I'm interested in hearing options from people who do stack work and have looked at some of the other approaches out there. For something like this, I'm extremely wary of all the positive reviews that could very well be from first-timers or people who have tried 1 or 2 and gave up.

Is this just rehashing of old ideas--is it just some new, shocking ideas to spark creativity--or is this an alternate approach to formula/rules systems? Improved approach?
Message: Posted by: 252life (Mar 11, 2019 02:57PM)
I use Atlas' stack. ("The Solution") It follows a simple logical formula (for me anyway).
When I've had a memory hiccup this system has always gotten me past it.
I've never used Mnemonica, and I'm sure it has advantages I'm unaware of. For my limited card use when performing, I don't see a need to change personally.
Message: Posted by: Magic1 (Mar 11, 2019 03:19PM)
For me (everyone learns differently) it would have been impossible to learn Mnemonica without this Game: “The Ultimate Mnemonica Trainer” https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/learn-mnemonica/id977361589?mt=8

Sam Gherman (along with being a really great magician and a cool guy) is a fantastic app maker. And now, just a few rounds of this game helps me to refresh the stack (having learned it by playing the game itself). Like Justin Flom, I tried a LOT of methods. I did not find the Trustman book very useful (I guess it was more of a helpful adjunct, but not a solution for me.) Other than actually performing, until you are put under the pressure (that the game provides) of having to name cards and positions quickly, it’s hard to know if you have actually mastered the stack.

I think it’s great that Rick has come up with a new method of learning this difficult skill. But for 9 bucks, I highly recommend having this game to compliment, measure, and refresh your progress. I find it challenging and addictive and there’s even a global level where you get to play against other magicians worldwide.

I probably could not have learned Mnemonica without it.
Message: Posted by: scott0819 (Mar 11, 2019 04:30PM)
I learned using Aronson’s approach in ‘A Stack To Remember’ (1979). 52 card images, 52 position images; all based on the phonetic alphabet. You associate the two images with the most vivid, nonsensical, violent or sexual images you can imagine. It sounds like a lot to remember but it provides a built-in failsafe if you ever forget a card.

This sounds similar but Rick does say “no phonetic alphabet” with this system so I’m curious how it differs in approach? Can anyone clarify?
Message: Posted by: erichoudini (Mar 11, 2019 07:54PM)
I started on Rick's system today and have the first ten cards in the stack. I can see that I will have to review regularly. I like the fact that so far we are working in groups as I have used this type of approach successfully before. I think the teaching is well paced and thorough and I hope to have 10 more cards memorized tomorrow.
Message: Posted by: Craig333 (Mar 11, 2019 08:23PM)
I have Woody aragon's memorandum stack committed to memory, is it confusing to have 2 stacks down?
Message: Posted by: boinko (Mar 11, 2019 08:39PM)
[quote]On Mar 11, 2019, scott0819 wrote:

This sounds similar but Rick does say “no phonetic alphabet” with this system so I’m curious how it differs in approach? Can anyone clarify? [/quote]

Yeah, see my post above. That's the system.
Message: Posted by: scott0819 (Mar 11, 2019 09:43PM)
[quote]On Mar 11, 2019, boinko wrote:
[quote]On Mar 11, 2019, scott0819 wrote:

This sounds similar but Rick does say “no phonetic alphabet” with this system so I’m curious how it differs in approach? Can anyone clarify? [/quote]

Yeah, see my post above. That's the system. [/quote]

Whoops. Thanks, boinko. Super helpful!
I never reworked the Aronson associations for Mnemonica so I may pick this up.
Message: Posted by: Maxy (Mar 11, 2019 09:53PM)
This site is very good for training:
http://www.memorizedeck.com/
Message: Posted by: MAGIC325 (Mar 11, 2019 10:20PM)
[quote]On Mar 9, 2019, Tom Cutts wrote:
There is a download, and they will send the flash cards which can help but are not necessary to work the system.

Rick uses a memory system which I used decades ago to memorize the Aronson Stack. I learned it from Kevin Trudeau, and he certainly didn’t invent it.

The foundational system worked amazingly well for me. I have no doubt most people will be stunned how quickly cards fall into place. But there is a catch. If you don’t think like Rick Lax and have his knowledge base of trivial things used to create his version of the system, then you will have to work a little harder in memorizing or in creating your own images. Do you know the top score for an ACT? Do you know your presidents by number? Do you know how many chromosomes in DNA?

Fortunately, most of you will hear one of Rick’s images which doesn’t work for you and you will think, “It should be...” and just like that you are creating your own images and making the system work even better for you. [/quote]
Message: Posted by: MAGIC325 (Mar 11, 2019 10:20PM)
Penguin said that there are no flashcards.
Message: Posted by: Dan McLean (Mar 12, 2019 12:16AM)
[quote]On Mar 11, 2019, MAGIC325 wrote:
Penguin said that there are no flashcards. [/quote]

Then Penguin needs to watch the video they supplied and produced. Rick Lax says "a sheet with drawings that we have included." About 48 minutes into it.

So where's the sheet?

D
Message: Posted by: 252life (Mar 12, 2019 12:22AM)
Where it has to go :)
Message: Posted by: no2ss (Mar 12, 2019 12:26AM)
[quote]On Mar 11, 2019, Craig333 wrote:
I have Woody aragon's memorandum stack committed to memory, is it confusing to have 2 stacks down? [/quote]

Everyone's different, obviously, but I haven't had a problem memorizing two stacks. About to start on a third as well (Redford's, following Mnemonica and Aaronson).
Message: Posted by: Craig333 (Mar 12, 2019 08:53AM)
[quote]On Mar 12, 2019, no2ss wrote:
[quote]On Mar 11, 2019, Craig333 wrote:
I have Woody aragon's memorandum stack committed to memory, is it confusing to have 2 stacks down? [/quote]

Everyone's different, obviously, but I haven't had a problem memorizing two stacks. About to start on a third as well (Redford's, following Mnemonica and Aaronson). [/quote]

nice one, might give it a go cheers ;)
Message: Posted by: Magicalos (Mar 12, 2019 11:22AM)
Cant unhear rick lax talking about spongebob putting poop in his butt :D
Message: Posted by: MagicBrent (Mar 12, 2019 11:45AM)
As a visual learner who doesn't like to read instructions, this was one of the best purchases I've ever made. I find card tricks boring or have but this has re-ignited the "superhero" mentality I haven't had in experiencing a childlike wonder with magic for cards in a long time. This is fun to learn and I'm amazed how fast I'm taken to it. I bought Juan's illustrated version but this connects better with me.
Message: Posted by: mayhem (Mar 12, 2019 12:00PM)
[quote]On Mar 11, 2019, Maxy wrote:
This site is very good for training:
http://www.memorizedeck.com/ [/quote]

Thanks for sharing, this will come in handy. I purchased this yesterday, and so far seems to be the one that will help me finally remember this stack.
Message: Posted by: scottvraneshfallin (Mar 12, 2019 12:14PM)
[quote]On Mar 12, 2019, 252life wrote:
Where it has to go :) [/quote]

I honestly don't know why you're smiling, but I have this effect and I'm laughing for my own reasons :)
Message: Posted by: cho7 (Mar 13, 2019 01:14PM)
Looks like one of the many methods that we can find in Tony Buzan's books, right ? Because I have 3 of them so I'm not really sure to learn something :-/
Message: Posted by: fireisyummy (Mar 13, 2019 10:43PM)
This is without a doubt the most important download penguin has ever put out. I've been struggling for years to memorize a deck and never got anywhere. I've tried a lot of the stuff from Mneumonica. I've tried a bunch of stuff Simon Aronson recommended. I've spent forever trying to work on memorizing a deck based on a memory palace but I changed my mind as to what system to use way too many times so I never even completed making my system.

But now, here I am. I just finished watching the video yesterday. There were a couple of pop culture references I really wasn't familiar with (Ace, 27, 34, 42 for example) but I'm trying to learn about them. I was kind of expecting some magician references but for some reason Rick Lax stayed clear of them. I wonder why... Penguin just uploaded the accompanying PDF (with some really bad mistakes in the text underneath a few of them. Somebody really should have reviewed the text at least one time. The pictures are all correct so its obvious when the text is completely describing the wrong thing) and now here I am. I put in under 2 hours practicing and reviewing so far and I'm already correct about 95% of the time and I assume by tomorrow I should be at 100%.I never dreamed it would be possible to memorize a deck this fast. I wish this would have came out years ago. Now I just have to go back and find all those tricks I couldn't do because I couldn't memorize a deck....

Thank you Rick Lax!!!!
Message: Posted by: mayhem (Mar 14, 2019 10:43AM)
I'm loving this more each day. I don't have a lot of time this week, but decided to do 10 at a time and once I had the first 10, moved on to next 10. I have the first 30 memorized and am confident that I'll retain the information long term. I saw another link that I use to test myself on it.

https://joecreates.co.uk/magicians/

You can set it up to show a certain number of cards in the stack and practice this way when you don't have a deck of cards with you. At home, I have the cards that I know in a stack and mix them and run through them. Very happy with this purchase as I see this is finally a method that works for me.
Message: Posted by: fireisyummy (Mar 14, 2019 07:39PM)
[quote]On Mar 13, 2019, fireisyummy wrote:
This is without a doubt the most important download penguin has ever put out. I've been struggling for years to memorize a deck and never got anywhere. I've tried a lot of the stuff from Mneumonica. I've tried a bunch of stuff Simon Aronson recommended. I've spent forever trying to work on memorizing a deck based on a memory palace but I changed my mind as to what system to use way too many times so I never even completed making my system.

But now, here I am. I just finished watching the video yesterday. There were a couple of pop culture references I really wasn't familiar with (Ace, 27, 34, 42 for example) but I'm trying to learn about them. I was kind of expecting some magician references but for some reason Rick Lax stayed clear of them. I wonder why... Penguin just uploaded the accompanying PDF (with some really bad mistakes in the text underneath a few of them. Somebody really should have reviewed the text at least one time. The pictures are all correct so its obvious when the text is completely describing the wrong thing) and now here I am. I put in under 2 hours practicing and reviewing so far and I'm already correct about 95% of the time and I assume by tomorrow I should be at 100%.I never dreamed it would be possible to memorize a deck this fast. I wish this would have came out years ago. Now I just have to go back and find all those tricks I couldn't do because I couldn't memorize a deck....

Thank you Rick Lax!!!! [/quote]

Here I am one day later and I'm now correct 100% of the time. I'm in shock at how fast this went.

It did take a lot of effort becoming more familiar with many of the pop culture references that Rick Lax made that I was completely unfamiliar with or learning some facts I didn't know.

I'm still too slow to use this in the course of a show but in another few days I should be fast enough (I hope...) Some numbers pop into my mind immediately, other ones I have to think for a few seconds which is not something I can really do in a show. I hope to have this ready to perform in a week.
Message: Posted by: fireisyummy (Mar 14, 2019 08:12PM)
I see that Penguin removed the PDF. Good for them. The mistakes on the PDF were awful (twice they have completely the wrong story with the wrong number in the text). I look forward to them putting up the new fixed PDF soon.
Message: Posted by: Tempesta (Mar 14, 2019 09:39PM)
Is quick recall an advantage of this system as opposed to a brute force, systematic, or rule-based system?
Message: Posted by: civins (Mar 15, 2019 08:51AM)
How does this compare to the memory acts project by the the Trustmans?
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Mar 15, 2019 10:57AM)
[quote]On Mar 14, 2019, Tempesta wrote:
Is quick recall an advantage of this system as opposed to a brute force, systematic, or rule-based system? [/quote]

Yes - once you get the cultural reference that Lax uses for each number, a cartoon image for that number will pop into your head after a pretty minimal amount of practice and review. When it does, you’ll also have the value and suit of the card. It helps that the images are very well drawn by the guy who does all of the magician cartoon avatars for Penguin, and each is some measure of absurd, funny or deliberately offensive in a few cases. There’s an internal logic to the representation of the values and suits, so the main trigger to get the image is getting familiar with the cultural, political or scientific reference for each number. Some are more obscure than others, and a couple are a real stretch (ie, the wordplay used for 37 and 46) but then the quirkiness of the outliers is memorable in its own way. After a couple of days you’ll probably be able to play the images in your head backwards and forwards starting at any number.
Message: Posted by: macc (Mar 15, 2019 03:24PM)
A little review/my experience with memory work

A few years ago I played a bit with things like working out quickly the day of the week for any date (very well explained on this page: https://gmmentalgym.blogspot.com/2011/03/day-of-week-for-any-date-revised.html?m=1 it seems a lot and difficult at first but it's pretty easy) and different memory techniques. A few of them I was really surprised with like memorizing very quickly black and red alternation in a deck.

Another thing that I liked and still do was the "Major system" which is a phonetic number system and is used to memorize numbers :D which IMHO is really easy to learn. I combined that with "Loki" whch is another memory system and I was very surprised how fast I was able to memorize long strings of numbers.

But I never managed to memorize a card stack completely for the long term. That was just a bit too much effort for me. So I sticked with Richard Osterlinds BCS Stack. Which is a wonderful stack.

And now I'm just done watching the download. And I'm impressed. It's really really easy. You watch the download and in 90 minutes you kinda have the stack down.

The images and connections are so we'll thought out that I had to smile many times just how clever some of the images are. I'm not from America so some of the numbers won't stick with me very well. I think I will substitute them withy own Images.

Most likely I will just use the "Major System" because I have the words for all two digit numbers already in my head.

I'm really looking forward to not only the univers of effects I can read up on and practice but also on practicing the stack on my way to work every morning. :D

I highly recommend the app "memdeck pro"
Message: Posted by: macc (Mar 15, 2019 04:49PM)
Going through it with a deck of cards again I found that when I look at a card I don't even have to check. I know it's the right number.

And at the moment I need more time to go from number to card. It's a bit more diffiult.
Message: Posted by: Poof-Daddy (Mar 15, 2019 10:28PM)
[quote]On Mar 12, 2019, Dan McLean wrote:
[quote]On Mar 11, 2019, MAGIC325 wrote:
Penguin said that there are no flashcards. [/quote]

Then Penguin needs to watch the video they supplied and produced. Rick Lax says "a sheet with drawings that we have included." About 48 minutes into it.

So where's the sheet?

D [/quote]

They put out a downloadable "17 page PDF" with all the images that he went over in the "first version" of the video. They pulled the PDF pretty quick (I was "lucky enough" to grab it as well as the first version vid but Found that there were number / suit mistakes made on the PDF. Now the video has buffered out several images (for copyright issues, I would believe since they are "7 dwarfs, Spongebob, and Jack Sparrow) They may even want to rethink Ace Venture (to be safe) others like Elvis, Hitler, John McEnroe, Queen of England may all fall under "public figure laws" (I am certainly not a copyright lawyer, but this is my guess). I asked late today on the chat if they had any idea when the new materials will be up and they said they were hoping for the end of today but I suspect "sometime next week at the earliest" as it seems to not only need a good proofreading but a good bit of total re-writes at this point for all the removed material.

Personally, It was still a "Pre-Order" when I hit the "buy button" It stated shipping Monday although I was able to download the video Sunday when I ordered. So.... I am ok with giving them some time to "make it right" (without having a fit) :-) . However, I am a bit upset that it indicated that it would "Ship On x/xx/2019" causing me to think it must be a set of flashcards (it was in fact a PDF) and I tossed $30 more that I really didn't want to pull the trigger on to get the free shipping on what I perceived was a "ship-able product". If it were more clear (or maybe I missed it) I would have just ordered it and been ok with the wait.
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Mar 15, 2019 11:40PM)
Whatever characters they choose to replace the Disney assets, they really should consider drawing them to closely resemble Bob Iger.
Message: Posted by: Poof-Daddy (Mar 16, 2019 12:09AM)
Before my PM box gets full, there were many errors on the PDF (others point it out in the Penguin “discuss” private forum) so I deleted it and am also waiting on the new one as it wouldn’t have been useful once images that need changed get changed.
Message: Posted by: erichoudini (Mar 16, 2019 07:33AM)
I learned the last 12 cards of mnemonica last night and now have the deck memorized, sort of. I realize I will need to review and practice to retain the stack. This was my first attempt at using mneumonica and I am unfamiliar with other methods so I am wondering if there are any systems which teach transferable skills. I think learning a different stack and retaining both decks would be too challenging for me. Is there a system which would make learning new stacks easier? I think the method Rick Lax has used to teach me is effective and as others have suggested, I modified some of the images and associations in his system to make them more memorable and meaningful to me. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Eric.
Message: Posted by: no2ss (Mar 16, 2019 04:17PM)
[quote]On Mar 16, 2019, erichoudini wrote:
I learned the last 12 cards of mnemonica last night and now have the deck memorized, sort of. I realize I will need to review and practice to retain the stack. This was my first attempt at using mneumonica and I am unfamiliar with other methods so I am wondering if there are any systems which teach transferable skills. I think learning a different stack and retaining both decks would be too challenging for me. Is there a system which would make learning new stacks easier? I think the method Rick Lax has used to teach me is effective and as others have suggested, I modified some of the images and associations in his system to make them more memorable and meaningful to me. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Eric. [/quote]

A lot of folks have mentioned The Memory Arts by the Trustmans and I found that useful. The book itself teaches you a general concept (with some artwork) on how to build a memory palace that can be used for a variety of things beyond just deck stacks. They do specifically go through Mnemonica and Aaronson (and I think they've released ebook versions for other stacks as well). I used it to help learn Mnemonica, but honestly, after I understood the concept pretty well, I ended up dumping their own memory palace artwork and drawings and created my own based on a walk I do nearly every day -- and that helped me easily memorize two stacks and some other stuff for other effects (for example, I use it to help with Phill Smith's Stegosaurus, so I don't need to display cards with the words, but can just show a word cloud instead). So, that's what worked for me personally: the Memory Arts taught me the concept of how a good memory palace can work, and then I went and created my own that I now use. I literally marked up a deck of cards and walked the route that I use for my memory palace and looked at each card in each position (and took a photo of it there). And by the next day I had it pretty much memorized. But... also, everyone is different. So may depend on your learning style. (FWIW, I also tried to supplement using the Memory Arts with Tamariz's own suggestions for how to memorize Mnemonica, and that helped too).
Message: Posted by: erichoudini (Mar 16, 2019 04:53PM)
Thanks very much for the suggestions no2ss. Aaronson and Tamariz are two names that keep popping up.
All the best. Eric.
Message: Posted by: boinko (Mar 16, 2019 05:23PM)
Point here: it's *not* "Meneumonica" -- it's "Mnemonica".

Rick Lax's video is superb -- but, good god Penguin, get the name right

Even Rick calls it (repeatedly) 'Mneumonica'. :)

A nitpick, I know -- but ...
Message: Posted by: tjackson8685 (Mar 16, 2019 06:25PM)
Is it fair to assume I can adapt this for the Aaronson stack if I want to memorize that one vs Tamariz?
Message: Posted by: rosariorose9 (Mar 16, 2019 06:38PM)
Many years ago I took the Arthur Bornstein memory course. A remarkable tool, that was invaluable in law school. At the time, using that method, I could memorize just about ANYTHING, and I'm sure that Mneumonica would not have been a problem. Now, with age, it's not as easy, but I'm finding that Rick's method is really good. I'm up to twenty cards, and counting....
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Mar 17, 2019 11:02AM)
[quote]On Mar 16, 2019, tjackson8685 wrote:
Is it fair to assume I can adapt this for the Aaronson stack if I want to memorize that one vs Tamariz? [/quote]

You could reuse the number triggers, and could also reuse the value and suit ideas for any stack. You’d wind up with a completely new set of visual images because of the different stack order.
Message: Posted by: tjackson8685 (Mar 18, 2019 07:15AM)
[quote]On Mar 17, 2019, MaxfieldsMagic wrote:
[quote]On Mar 16, 2019, tjackson8685 wrote:
Is it fair to assume I can adapt this for the Aaronson stack if I want to memorize that one vs Tamariz? [/quote]

You could reuse the number triggers, and could also reuse the value and suit ideas for any stack. You’d wind up with a completely new set of visual images because of the different stack order. [/quote]

Thank you.
Message: Posted by: erichoudini (Mar 18, 2019 09:51AM)
I performed the mnemonica 4 times for my girlfriend and she said that repeating it successfully that many times led her to believe I had memorized the deck. While surprised and flattered that she felt I could have accomplished this memory feat, I was also disappointed that she figured it out. Can anyone suggest methods of presentation which will not make the method too obvious? Tips and suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you.
Eric.
Message: Posted by: macc (Mar 18, 2019 10:50AM)
@erichoudini:
I think it depends mostly on how the deck is handled and on the effects you perform. For example when you ask the spectator to name a card and you tell them the number where the card is it's kinda obvious. There are many/actually most tricks that totally disguise that you're using a memdeck

And doing some false shuffles and cuts and handling the deck seemingly careless in general like the order of the cards doesn't matter helps. Maybe perform effects with another deck where you actually let your girlfriend/spectator shuffle the deck and do a deck switch into a mnemonica deck.

Or do a stack related effect and a non stack related effect directly after.

There are also ways to get into mnemonica while performing.
Message: Posted by: erichoudini (Mar 18, 2019 11:44AM)
Thank you for the suggestions macc.
Eric.
Message: Posted by: macc (Mar 18, 2019 12:02PM)
You're welcome but I'm not an expert. Maybe other people also have some suggestions. :-)

I really really recommend Mind Mysteries vol. 2 by Richard Osterlind. Richard teaches his BCS Stack which you don't need because you already know mnemonica but the effects taught on the DVD are easy and simply awesome and none of the effects screams memdeck/stack
Message: Posted by: paperinick (Mar 18, 2019 12:26PM)
[quote]I performed the mnemonica 4 times[/quote]
What does exactly this mean? Mnemonica is a specific stack.
If it means performed effects based on the MD, which effects are you referring to?
Message: Posted by: rosariorose9 (Mar 18, 2019 12:36PM)
Erichoudini, consider buying Juan's book ('Mnemonica'). It covers both the psychology of presentation and multiple effects using the stack.
Message: Posted by: erichoudini (Mar 18, 2019 01:44PM)
Paperinick, I meant that in the course of an evening, I asked my girlfriend four times to choose a different card and then I revealed the number it was at in the mnemonica stack I learned from the nmenonica training download from Rick Lax. Thanks for the suggestion Rosariorose9.
Eric.
Message: Posted by: macc (Mar 18, 2019 02:21PM)
Like I said that's an obvious way to signal that you're using a memdeck.

Better would have been to let your girlfriend cut the deck and complete the cut, let her look at the top card and you glimpse the bottom card to figure out which card she cut to.

And then you wouldn't reveal the number but the card she has freely chosen.

But even that shouldn't just be done like I wrote :D

Do yourself a favor and get Richard Osterlinds "Mind Mysteries vol. 2" and like rosariorose9 suggested "Mnemonica" by Juan Tamariz. :-)
Message: Posted by: 252life (Mar 18, 2019 02:45PM)
I like to go full on slop shuffle with a stack.
But I don’t present as someone smooth with cards so that approach works for me.
Message: Posted by: Poof-Daddy (Mar 19, 2019 11:32AM)
The New PDF is up on the "Learn" section. It is a simple line item pdf with no illustrations. All the "Characters" are the same but the drawings are gone and the Video now has all the "questionable" artwork blurred out (Sponge bob, 7 dwarfs, Jack Sparrow). I wish I would have kept the original. Even with the mistakes it seemed better than this final output.
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Mar 19, 2019 12:00PM)
That’s too bad. The artwork was very helpful in quickly embedding a visual image.
Message: Posted by: videoman (Mar 19, 2019 01:34PM)
If you are not happy with the new version contact Penguin and ask for a refund. You deserve to get one and you certainly will get it. Penguin is a wonderful dealer to work with.
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Mar 19, 2019 02:35PM)
How bad were the mistakes [as in are the obvious and so they aren't going to 'fool' you into learning stuff wrong]

And do you really need the PDF [?] of would the video alone be enough to learn it... as I like to work on stuff on the treadmill and so video is better than pdf
Message: Posted by: drawfull (Mar 19, 2019 02:58PM)
[quote]On Mar 19, 2019, The Duster wrote:
How bad were the mistakes [as in are the obvious and so they aren't going to 'fool' you into learning stuff wrong]

And do you really need the PDF [?] of would the video alone be enough to learn it... as I like to work on stuff on the treadmill and so video is better than pdf [/quote]

I think if you buy into the basic idea of the images he's getting you to use then you wouldn't need the PDF. But I have only watched the vid as the PDF wasn't available at the point I bought it.

When I learned a chunk of Pi, I just used the peg system with phonetics / memory palace which I find not to be too difficult. I used my childhood home as the 'palace'.
Message: Posted by: paperinick (Mar 19, 2019 03:26PM)
[quote]On Mar 18, 2019, erichoudini wrote:
Paperinick, I meant that in the course of an evening, I asked my girlfriend four times to choose a different card and then I revealed the number it was at in the mnemonica stack I learned from the nmenonica training download from Rick Lax. Thanks for the suggestion Rosariorose9.
Eric. [/quote]
That's not the way to perform with a MD. It's like using a marked deck, having somebody pick a card and say "it's the three of clubs". Dead giveaway.
Tamariz, Aronson, Michael Close, Darwin Ortiz have all published tricks that use the memdeck to perform miracles.
Tamariz published a video called Routine in D major (besides the DVD series and a whole book).
Same for Aronson, get his DVDs (lovely "Bait and switch" which teaches a clever method to switch a deck) and books.
Close and Ortiz have even more convoluted material.
Good luck!
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Mar 19, 2019 03:27PM)
Pi?

How big a chunk?

I learned 100 digits in a 60 min treadmill session

Thanks to a recent pengiun lecture
Message: Posted by: drawfull (Mar 19, 2019 03:34PM)
[quote]On Mar 19, 2019, The Duster wrote:
Pi?

How big a chunk?

I learned 100 digits in a 60 min treadmill session

Thanks to a recent pengiun lecture [/quote]

350 (but I think 100 or so is enough, especially when you're really having to think to get them time wise). I only learnt in order, wouldn't be confident* doing 'what are digits x thru y'.

Which lecture? Vincent Hedan's effect made me do it.

*able :)
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Mar 19, 2019 04:51PM)
Yes VH is the reason too

Or rather I have a rather special presentation planned that means I need to know the first 100 very well

It should also cover off if anyone does 'go early' during the normal VH presentation...

The lecture was:

http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/11421

You do get a PDF too
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Mar 19, 2019 04:58PM)
[quote]On Mar 19, 2019, drawfull wrote:

wouldn't be confident* doing 'what are digits x thru y'.

[/quote]

Well - I know what the 50th is [easily] and the ones after/before that

And if you said give me digit 17 to 22 - it wouldn't take long [seconds to get there]

As I would just go through the words, counting the 'number of numbers' for each one....

But it wouldn't be as fast as a peg system [or a memorised stack] would be

On the treadmill I always count the digits as I go. So I know when I get to 50 or the end, if I have made a mistake. Maybe that's made it much quicker for me than I had just trusted I wasn't leaving digits [words] out

A quick question..... that I'm not sure about

To normal people [well math people, if they count as normal] - if I asked for the second digit of Pi

Would that be:

a) 1
b) 4

I know that might be a basci question - but I was wondering whether it [digits] starts from the 3 or after the 'point'
Message: Posted by: Ron Giesecke (Mar 19, 2019 06:56PM)
[quote]On Mar 10, 2019, pegasus wrote:
For people who having nothing better to do in their spare time. [/quote]
Not sure someone with nearly 7,000 posts exactly fits the definition of "a guy with a full calendar."
Message: Posted by: erichoudini (Mar 19, 2019 07:15PM)
Thank you for the suggestions and encouragement Paperinick.
Eric.
Message: Posted by: no2ss (Mar 19, 2019 07:44PM)
[quote]On Mar 18, 2019, erichoudini wrote:
Paperinick, I meant that in the course of an evening, I asked my girlfriend four times to choose a different card and then I revealed the number it was at in the mnemonica stack I learned from the nmenonica training download from Rick Lax.[/quote]

Hi Eric,

As others have pointed out... that's not the best way to make use of a memdeck, as it (1) isn't very magical and (2) telegraphs the method (or, rather, shouts it out of a bullhorn). There are so many good books/thoughts on memdeck work, some of which were already mentioned, but here's my preferred list (some of the others that people recommend, I simply haven't read, but they could be good too!).

* Mnemonica by Juan Tamariz (obviously even more useful if you've memorized Mnemonica)
* Bound to Please by Simon Aaronson
* In Order to Amaze by Pit Hartling
* Temporarily Out of Order by Patrick Redford
* Memorandum by Woody Aragon

You don't need to read them all, but there are tons of great memdeck effects out there, most of which so drastically hide the method that they'll completely baffle nearly anyone.

Also, hey, it helps if you can do a convincing false shuffle. We'll see if Rick Lax comes out with a trainer on that soon too...
Message: Posted by: erichoudini (Mar 19, 2019 07:59PM)
Thank you no2ss. I will check out some books and find a few memorized deck routines that work for me. I appreciate you taking the time to help.
Eric.
Message: Posted by: Ron Giesecke (Mar 20, 2019 10:05AM)
I have had the Lorayne/Lucas book for ages. I memorized the Mnemonica stack using a combination of the phonetic numbers, the peg and even the Memory Arts for asecond (I found it to be not as useful for me because I already had the basics of other systemic starting points.

I imagine this is as good as anything, but the deal is--at some point, you want all of that scaffolding to fall away and leave you with instant recall of number:card. There are a few things I do to ram it into my permanent memory:

1) I have a deck stacked on my desk at work, and between calls, I simply cut to a place, glimpse the bottom, and guess the top card.

2) I do the same thing, but double-lift the top card the guess the one prior. (these are done over and over, randomly)

3) Shuffle the deck and build the stack by hand, timing myself.

These have made the stack much more strong in my recall.

No matter what, time, and exposure will solidify the stack only, But these onramps to memorization at least help get one out of the gate.
Message: Posted by: paperinick (Mar 20, 2019 11:09AM)
In one of the Michael Close DVDs there is a section devoted to practicing the mem-deck, e.g. using a metronome.
It's a must.
Message: Posted by: Ron Giesecke (Mar 20, 2019 11:35AM)
[quote]On Mar 20, 2019, paperinick wrote:
In one of the Michael Close DVDs there is a section devoted to practicing the mem-deck, e.g. using a metronome.
It's a must. [/quote]

Nice. Musicianship and magic.
Message: Posted by: drawfull (Mar 20, 2019 11:43AM)
[quote]On Mar 19, 2019, The Duster wrote:
[quote]On Mar 19, 2019, drawfull wrote:

wouldn't be confident* doing 'what are digits x thru y'.

[/quote]

Well - I know what the 50th is [easily] and the ones after/before that

And if you said give me digit 17 to 22 - it wouldn't take long [seconds to get there]

As I would just go through the words, counting the 'number of numbers' for each one....

But it wouldn't be as fast as a peg system [or a memorised stack] would be

On the treadmill I always count the digits as I go. So I know when I get to 50 or the end, if I have made a mistake. Maybe that's made it much quicker for me than I had just trusted I wasn't leaving digits [words] out

A quick question..... that I'm not sure about

To normal people [well math people, if they count as normal] - if I asked for the second digit of Pi

Would that be:

a) 1
b) 4

I know that might be a basci question - but I was wondering whether it [digits] starts from the 3 or after the 'point' [/quote]

I started at 159. Which is still pretty pathetic I guess, but, luckily, it fit with the house number. If I understand what you're getting at re treadmill, that's not a bad idea really although I'd still like some backbone to it. But then pace of steps as you remember/learn? Similar to one of the ideas in Mnemonica with the song.

Coming back to any system, including this, it's always (to me) a lot harder to go backwards to the point that I can't so I don't. As much as I think this will work for some, doing it in reverse will take a lot of time.
Message: Posted by: tjackson8685 (Mar 24, 2019 08:03AM)
I am VERY happy with this purchase. I realize everyone is different but for me this method seems to work better than others I have tries. For $20 I was willing to take a chance and am glad I did.
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Mar 26, 2019 07:41AM)
Valentine's Day is on the 28th Feb [?]

My mind is blown

You crazy yanks

Or Rick just forgets every year - and so makes up for it a few weeks later
Message: Posted by: dave_matkin (Mar 26, 2019 08:13AM)
[quote]On Mar 26, 2019, The Duster wrote:
Valentine's Day is on the 28th Feb [?][/quote]

They do mothers day on a different day too. It's later in the year.

[quote]On Mar 26, 2019, The Duster wrote:
My mind is blown

You crazy yanks

Or Rick just forgets every year - and so makes up for it a few weeks later [/quote]

Works for me for my dad's birthday and my wife's come to that too!
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Mar 26, 2019 08:35AM)
It says Valentine's day 28th Feb

But later on - he repeats that Feb has 28 days

So I'm not sure which he actually means

But I just pictured the Tr******* dating two [2*14]

TBH 30 was totally obscure for me......
Message: Posted by: dave_matkin (Mar 26, 2019 08:39AM)
[quote]On Mar 26, 2019, The Duster wrote:
It says Valentine's day 28th Feb

But later on - he repeats that Feb has 28 days

So I'm not sure which he actually means

But I just pictured the Tr******* dating two [2*14]

TBH 30 was totally obscure for me...... [/quote]

Well to be honest that entire post from you was obscure from my point of view as I don't have this trainer. I may get it just to decode your message ... but then your not really the Nazis and I'm certainly no Alan Turing.
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Mar 26, 2019 09:05AM)
Well - to help your efforts to defeat the Nazis

I mean that I just think of the Valentine's being with two females .... so 2 x 14 = 28

And the peg for the number 30 - is of a Tv presenter I've never heard of [not being American] from a TV show I've never seen [not being American]

G'ah
Message: Posted by: dave_matkin (Mar 26, 2019 11:10AM)
WOW what a valentines day......


better hope my wife doesn't find out!
Message: Posted by: paperinick (Mar 27, 2019 12:16PM)
Does anyone happen to be lucky to have the original released PDF with the images?
Message: Posted by: macc (Mar 27, 2019 12:18PM)
I second that request. It's a real bummer that they put it down and blurred the images.
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Mar 27, 2019 12:43PM)
If you got the original version - did Penguin change that [inside your account]?

As if they did - it's yet another warning to always download stuff you buy onto your hard drive

I do anyway - as I know so many sites [that you think will last] are gone after a few years... just click on links on here from any thread taht's more than a couple of years old
Message: Posted by: mayhem (Mar 27, 2019 01:09PM)
Good point Duster... I wished I had downloaded the original video as well. Luckily, I was already through the video while learning and have it down pretty decent. I'm sure there will be times I'll want to refer back to the video and PDF file and with the blurred out images, it doesn't help for those that originally learned with them. I understand why they made changes, but wished I had downloaded right away.
Message: Posted by: Tommytallica (Mar 27, 2019 02:10PM)
I was very surpriced how well this system works. Kinda annoyed about the blurred pictures and the missing pdf. But with this system, I had my deck memorised in less than a week. The hardest part for me was finding a few substitutes for some of the pegs, that made more sense to me.
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Mar 27, 2019 03:18PM)
Oh come on......

I gave in, to believing that in the USA valentine's day is on the 28th of Feb

But - come on.......

Really?

USA Roulette wheels have 32 numbers on?????

If that's the case - at the odds they pay out on - we better all get to Vegas and we can make a fortune....

This prompted me to check something - that I just took as fact....

When he suggested that the Canadian drinking age was 19.... it isn't - it's 18

Come on......

Not to be rude - but if he really couldn't come up with hooks - he should have asked for help...

I mean 19 was made for Paul hardcastle

32 was the year Jesus was put on the cross, 32 is the number of piano sonatas by Beethoven, the number of teeth in a human... etc

There are so many correct hooks

I get it - it's just a system

But it doesn't take much to get it right as well... I mean this is just lazy
Message: Posted by: dave_matkin (Mar 27, 2019 03:51PM)
[quote]On Mar 27, 2019, The Duster wrote:
Oh come on......

I gave in, to believing that in the USA valentine's day is on the 28th of Feb

But - come on.......

Really?

USA Roulette wheels have 32 numbers on?????

If that's the case - at the odds they pay out on - we better all get to Vegas and we can make a fortune....

This prompted me to check something - that I just took as fact....

When he suggested that the Canadian drinking age was 19.... it isn't - it's 18

Come on......

Not to be rude - but if he really couldn't come up with hooks - he should have asked for help...

I mean 19 was made for Paul hardcastle

[/quote]


well he could have been 65, 26 or 19 or 20 or 10..... he had so many many numbers and that was just from his 19 song and his other hit ..... INTERNATIONAL BATTLE OF THE YEAR 2010
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Mar 27, 2019 04:39PM)
Well I think 19 is the strongest number [by far] anyone would associate with Paul hardcastle

But it would be the average of soliders - or Vietnam you would use

I guess Rick mixed up the age you are deemed to be an adult [in law] - in Canada, and the age you can drink at?

he could have used the 19th Hole [Golf] - and used the same type of drinking thought/memory....

This system would be better if along the way - you are also remembering a few facts/truths

Like Jesus died aged 33. You may have sort of known that, or when the great depression happened... this system will give you up to 52 bits of information at your finger tips....

Except that many of them are incorrect ....

I wonder if this is really howhe learned the cards - I guess not... as it looks like something he came up with in an afternoon to teach this... as he is so sure [of his mistakes] - like he'd not had the thoughts for long

STILL - this is a good product to learn the stack - I would have said better if you got the video and PDF as that would cater for two ways of learning the information
Message: Posted by: Nathan Alexander (Mar 27, 2019 05:07PM)
I bought this back when. It shows a video and PDF in my downloads. Have they changed?
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Mar 27, 2019 05:21PM)
You would have to open them to see if they have
Message: Posted by: BCE (Mar 27, 2019 08:58PM)
He misspells quinceañera - which spelled correctly translates to "15 years" (gee, who knew?) While I realize a typo generally isn't that important as it relates to an explanation, it's kinda sorta relevant in this instance.

And why is the 'king' ok to use (doesn't his estate license his image and likeness?) but the ***** are blurred out? They're public domain. No Disney lawyer is going to sue you for using YOUR pictures of seven *****.
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Mar 28, 2019 02:01AM)
For decades - they have been doing non-disney pantos [Pantos = British xmas play for kids] and they have done the 7 Dwarves - but they have had to changed their names. So that was so they weren't sued... but that has been deemed ok. As long as the Disney names were not used.

As the story itself wasn't Disney's - but Grim's [and out of copywright]

In fact it was a play [not Disney] before the film - but Disney did make up [and clearly protected] the names for the little people

So yes - using the 7 Dwarves in picture form - would not be something that could get anyone in trouble for
Message: Posted by: dave_matkin (Mar 28, 2019 02:47AM)
[quote]On Mar 27, 2019, The Duster wrote:
Well I think 19 is the strongest number [by far] anyone would associate with Paul hardcastle

But it would be the average of soliders - or Vietnam you would use

I guess Rick mixed up the age you are deemed to be an adult [in law] - in Canada, and the age you can drink at?

he could have used the 19th Hole [Golf] - and used the same type of drinking thought/memory....

This system would be better if along the way - you are also remembering a few facts/truths

Like Jesus died aged 33. You may have sort of known that, or when the great depression happened... this system will give you up to 52 bits of information at your finger tips....

Except that many of them are incorrect ....

I wonder if this is really howhe learned the cards - I guess not... as it looks like something he came up with in an afternoon to teach this... as he is so sure [of his mistakes] - like he'd not had the thoughts for long

STILL - this is a good product to learn the stack - I would have said better if you got the video and PDF as that would cater for two ways of learning the information [/quote]

Agree completely and I had to look up the other stuff about Paul Hardcastle - I was trying (some would say failing) to make a Joke and follow on that the errors you identified in his system could be made about the song 19. In truth I was also wondering if Paul Hardcastle had released any other songs over the years. He has - just I had never heard of any of them.

In short all this is a system and the important thing for any memory system is that you personalize it. You go with what works in your mind. I remember the first 80 or so digits of pi by using a memory palace around my secondary school placing images that represent the digits. It works well - just not for cards as I don't have a link to the number / location in my Pi palace.



[quote]On Mar 28, 2019, The Duster wrote:
For decades - they have been doing non-disney pantos [Pantos = British xmas play for kids] and they have done the 7 Dwarves - but they have had to changed their names. So that was so they weren't sued... but that has been deemed ok. As long as the Disney names were not used.

As the story itself wasn't Disney's - but Grim's [and out of copywright]

In fact it was a play [not Disney] before the film - but Disney did make up [and clearly protected] the names for the little people

So yes - using the 7 Dwarves in picture form - would not be something that could get anyone in trouble for [/quote]


well I don't see why you cant say, sleepy, bashful. happy and horny (and the other 4 what ever they are called) I don't think Disney have copywriter the words - just the images and names associated with those images.

is there a reason we are ** out the words dwarf/s?
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Mar 28, 2019 05:18AM)
Well all I know is that no 1 theatres [the biggest ones in UK - somost likely to to make sure everything is legit and there will be no chance of getting sued] - changed the names

And you learned the 'digits' of Pi by putting them into different locations

That sounds super hard [learning the actual digits]

I managed to learn the first 100 digits of Pi, whilst on a treadmill for an hour... but I used a system from a recent Pengiun Lecture, so had all the hard work done for me

Plus I had already had a lot of experience of using the major system

AND apparently [literally just searched and found this] Disney forgot to copywright the name Sneezy.... but again there was no reason to block out the image of dwarves... but it feels like Rick/the team have been a little lazy [or rushed] on the product from the start

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/3547008/Pantomime-renames-dwarfs-to-avoid-breaching-Disney-copyright.html
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Mar 28, 2019 05:20AM)
There is a mistake in that article - as I know that the dwarves were given individual names - in the previous play [so Disney were not the first]
Message: Posted by: dave_matkin (Mar 28, 2019 08:32AM)
[quote]On Mar 28, 2019, The Duster wrote:
Well all I know is that no 1 theatres [the biggest ones in UK - somost likely to to make sure everything is legit and there will be no chance of getting sued] - changed the names

And you learned the 'digits' of Pi by putting them into different locations

That sounds super hard [learning the actual digits]

I managed to learn the first 100 digits of Pi, whilst on a treadmill for an hour... but I used a system from a recent Pengiun Lecture, so had all the hard work done for me

Plus I had already had a lot of experience of using the major system

AND apparently [literally just searched and found this] Disney forgot to copywright the name Sneezy.... but again there was no reason to block out the image of dwarves... but it feels like Rick/the team have been a little lazy [or rushed] on the product from the start

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/3547008/Pantomime-renames-dwarfs-to-avoid-breaching-Disney-copyright.html [/quote]

HI Duster,

Which Penguin lecture are you referring to. I have so many that I have not watched. If I already have it I will move it to the top of my list.

What I love about Pi is that once you get in to the 70s it really is pointless. But I still did / do it anyway.

I love memory and keep meaning to read the memory book by Mr Burglas. But I cant recall where I put it right now. My memory is dreadful for some stuff and can be amazing when I really work at it. But Short term memory issues is one of the 3 key characteristics of dyslexia and I have dyslexia and Irlen and certanly know how bad my memory can be.

Learning Pi on a treadmill just sounds painful no matter what! I don't know of anywhere I could go to use a treadmill. I have considered buyig two cycle trainers to put my wheelchair on but cost is prohibitive.
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Mar 28, 2019 08:52AM)
Well on a treadmill - if it's on a hard setting for an hour

Can be boring....

It is also harder to learn/remember things - so if you can keep the info [recite it] whilst on the treadmill... it's closer to a in front of audience situation... not the same obv... as the treadmill doesn't cough or laugh - which for some reason puts you off... hmm

Will PM you
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Mar 28, 2019 04:06PM)
And I suppose in the USA the standard amount of cigs in a packet is not 18 [?]

G'ah

The hooks/pegs are very poorly thought out
Message: Posted by: paperinick (Mar 29, 2019 03:17PM)
I am going to strip the audio track and listen to it on my daily commute... :)
-e
Message: Posted by: tjackson8685 (Mar 29, 2019 03:49PM)
[quote]On Mar 27, 2019, The Duster wrote:
Oh come on......

I gave in, to believing that in the USA valentine's day is on the 28th of Feb


----He didn't say Valentines Day is Feb 28th. He said the hook is to Valentines day which is in Feb which has 28 days

When he suggested that the Canadian drinking age was 19.... it isn't - it's 18

---- In the majority of Canada the drinking age is 19
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Mar 29, 2019 09:47PM)
No

He says at the end - that Feb has 28 days BUT that's not the hook

At the start he CLEARLY says Valentine's Day is on the 28th

He repeats that Valentine's Day is on the 28th

On the PDF it says Valentine's Day is on the 28th Feb [both in the drawing AND in the text]

So I completely refute you trying to reframe what he says - you are not correct.

Going back to the 32 numbers for roulette [I get it this was rushed but not knowing that or when Valentine's day is, shows Rick may not have very good general knowledge and should have got some one to proof this project] but the 32 for roulette is a super poor choice - as the 36th card is the same rank... d'oh... that would lead to memory clashes if you came back to it cold

Anyway I'm off to buy my pack of 18 cigarettes
Message: Posted by: Sudo Nimh (Mar 29, 2019 10:49PM)
For whatever it's worth...

I'm Canadian. Drinking age here is most definitely 19 in the majority of the country. Only 3 provinces have a legal drinking age of 18. The legal age for tobacco is 18 in some provinces and 19 in others.
Message: Posted by: Salby (Mar 30, 2019 07:02AM)
.
Thinking about purchasing this, but I rather learn Aronson's Memorized Deck.

Can this be easily applied to it or do you think another video will be released by Rick Lax?

Both memorized decks are pretty popular.
.
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Mar 30, 2019 07:19AM)
[quote]On Mar 30, 2019, Salby wrote:
.
Thinking about purchasing this, but I rather learn Aronson's Memorized Deck.

Can this be easily applied to it or do you think another video will be released by Rick Lax?

Both memorized decks are pretty popular.
. [/quote]

I would guess - that he won't release an aronson mem tutorial

As they released this one because Penguin have bought the rights to the stack

It is much more likely [and suggested] that follow up releases will be 'things/tircks to do with the stack'

And - no this will not 'help' you too much with another stack

EXCEPT you can see what he has done and create your own list of hooks/pegs that work for another stack... and of course the actual cards will be the same images

So it's not it won't help you at all - but it's all pretty standard

And although I have railed about how lazy - so many of the pegs are - he just needed to spend a little more time... this is still a good product. And Rick does teach it well. The way he 'says' the 'pictures' - and the pace of the learning... it is very well done.

I just guess he knew the stack - and this is not the system he used, so it's a little 'wrong' and poorly thought out. But even then it's only about 1 in 7 cards that are poor choices.

The real trick here - is after you have used the system, you need to use the stack enough, that you never use the system... it just seeps into automatic knowledge
Message: Posted by: dave_matkin (Mar 30, 2019 12:03PM)
[quote]On Mar 30, 2019, The Duster wrote:
[quote]On Mar 30, 2019, Salby wrote:
.
Thinking about purchasing this, but I rather learn Aronson's Memorized Deck.

Can this be easily applied to it or do you think another video will be released by Rick Lax?

Both memorized decks are pretty popular.
. [/quote]

I would guess - that he won't release an aronson mem tutorial

As they released this one because Penguin have bought the rights to the stack

It is much more likely [and suggested] that follow up releases will be 'things/tircks to do with the stack'

And - no this will not 'help' you too much with another stack

EXCEPT you can see what he has done and create your own list of hooks/pegs that work for another stack... and of course the actual cards will be the same images

So it's not it won't help you at all - but it's all pretty standard

And although I have railed about how lazy - so many of the pegs are - he just needed to spend a little more time... this is still a good product. And Rick does teach it well. The way he 'says' the 'pictures' - and the pace of the learning... it is very well done.

I just guess he knew the stack - and this is not the system he used, so it's a little 'wrong' and poorly thought out. But even then it's only about 1 in 7 cards that are poor choices.

The real trick here - is after you have used the system, you need to use the stack enough, that you never use the system... it just seeps into automatic knowledge [/quote]


Hi Duster

Is that knowlege or speculation about Penguin buying the rites to the stack?
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Mar 30, 2019 12:05PM)
Rick says so during the video
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Mar 30, 2019 12:06PM)
And he says tricks will be in the ‘next’ release for this stack that he will do
Message: Posted by: erichoudini (Mar 30, 2019 12:15PM)
Thank you to everyone who made suggestions to me about the presentation of the MD. I have learned a couple of false cuts and shuffles which seem to convince the lay person that my location and revelation of their card is truly magical.
Eric.
Message: Posted by: paperinick (Mar 30, 2019 02:52PM)
To repeat my question on the new page: does anybody have the original censored PDF?
Message: Posted by: Philippe (Mar 31, 2019 12:25AM)
For a really easy life, hassle free and instant happiness..... I chose the Boris Wild system.
Message: Posted by: Sudo Nimh (Mar 31, 2019 01:54PM)
I never realized memorizing a deck of cards was so difficult...

Well, if someone wants to remove the Joyal and Aronson stack from my memory, I'll let you have them because I've only been using the Tamariz for like...forever now. :)

I get that not everyone learns the same way, but determination wins the day. Always. For what it's worth, I *highly* recommend the [i]Mnemonica Stack Trainer[/i] app. It only costs about $5.00 - or somewhere around there, IIRC. I didn't need it, but I bought it just to check it out and it's a lot of fun. It turns the memorization process into a game and if you don't have the stack memorized already, just a few fun hours spent playing this game will have you settled - easily.

I promise, you'll love it. If you have the stack already memorized, play this once in a while and it'll make you super fast.
Message: Posted by: dave_matkin (Mar 31, 2019 02:48PM)
[quote]On Mar 31, 2019, Sudo Nimh wrote:
I never realized memorizing a deck of cards was so difficult...

Well, if someone wants to remove the Joyal and Aronson stack from my memory, I'll let you have them because I've only been using the Tamariz for like...forever now. :)

I get that not everyone learns the same way, but determination wins the day. Always. For what it's worth, I *highly* recommend the [i]Mnemonica Stack Trainer[/i] app. It only costs about $5.00 - or somewhere around there, IIRC. I didn't need it, but I bought it just to check it out and it's a lot of fun. It turns the memorization process into a game and if you don't have the stack memorized already, just a few fun hours spent playing this game will have you settled - easily.

I promise you'll love it. If you have the stack already memorized, play this once in a while and it'll make you super fast. [/quote]

I am a Mnemonica fan, to be honest. And in the book Jaan covers a lot of different ways to learn the stack. I don't honestly think another video is needed. Having said that really only the one book is needed but I am also rather fond of The Memory Arts book(s) which is full of really nice artwork and a nice journey for the Journey method.

I do also have the app and use that to keep up my knowledge - as we need to keep rehearsing information if we want to keep and more importantly to retrieve it easily. Its good to run through it eveyr now and again.

And then there is the lovely Marksman deck.... :)
Message: Posted by: Sudo Nimh (Mar 31, 2019 03:47PM)
I learned my stacks by simply writing the stack numbers on the back of each card in large bold black marker. I start with the first 13 and shuffle them up. Then I run through the faces and try to determine the numbers on the back. Do that a bunch of times, then do the opposite by going through the backs and trying to determine the faces. Once I think I've got them decent enough, I then mix them face-up and face-down and try to do same. Any cards I get wrong at this point, are set aside. Whatever cards I set aside are now focused upon until they evaporate and I no longer miss any.

I'll do this for about 2 hours. The next day I repeat this exact same process with cards 14-26. Once I no longer miss any of those, I add in 1-13 and run through them all the same way again.

Day 3, I add in 27-39...you get the idea. Long story short, with only 2 hours of practice each day, for 4 days in a row, I get them locked in. Days 5, 6, and 7 - I simply spend 2 hours on each doing the entire deck. By the end of the week, everything is permanently locked into place. I did that with the Joyal, Aronson, and Tamariz stack and even though I haven't used the Aronson or Joyal in about 15 years, I can still fire them off with no problem. I stick with Juan's stack simply because being able to openly set it up from a newly opened deck in just seconds is a HUGE advantage, and something you just can't do with the other stacks. There's other reasons too - of course, but that's the biggest draw for me.
Message: Posted by: rosariorose9 (Mar 31, 2019 06:59PM)
[quote]On Mar 31, 2019, Sudo Nimh wrote:

....For what it's worth, I *highly* recommend the [i]Mnemonica Stack Trainer[/i] app. It only costs about $5.00 - or somewhere around there, IIRC....[/quote]

My phone is Android, and there are a number of Mnemonica Stack Trainers. Any one in particular that you can recommend? Thanks.
Message: Posted by: Sudo Nimh (Mar 31, 2019 07:49PM)
This is the one I'm referring to: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ultimatemnemonica.com&hl=en_CA

However, there's this too (though I haven't played with it), which is browser-based: http://mnemonicatrainer.altervista.org/

That first one is great.
Message: Posted by: rosariorose9 (Mar 31, 2019 08:36PM)
Thanks so much for the link, Sudo. Just ordered it!
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Apr 1, 2019 02:24AM)
Sorry I didn't get here earlier - but I would have recommended this one:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.cubemg.games.ultimatestacktrainer&hl=en_CA

It's only a little bit more

And you can use it for any/all stacks

I just think it's a lot better value
Message: Posted by: tgaffney (Apr 1, 2019 08:44AM)
This is a really good learning tool

I have made more progress, quicker than all the other mem
systems I have bought / tried.

Anyone, who watches the download (90 mins) start to finish
at least 5 times, will have the deck committed to memory
Message: Posted by: tjackson8685 (Apr 1, 2019 05:32PM)
[quote]On Mar 29, 2019, The Duster wrote:
No

He says at the end - that Feb has 28 days BUT that's not the hook

At the start he CLEARLY says Valentine's Day is on the 28th

He repeats that Valentine's Day is on the 28th

On the PDF it says Valentine's Day is on the 28th Feb [both in the drawing AND in the text]

So I completely refute you trying to reframe what he says - you are not correct.

[/quote]

Perhaps you have a different video to me. I just re watched and at 56:10 the video he clearly says" Valentines Day is in February and the month of February has 28 days"
Message: Posted by: rosariorose9 (Apr 1, 2019 06:13PM)
[quote]On Apr 1, 2019, The Duster wrote:
Sorry I didn't get here earlier - but I would have recommended this one:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.cubemg.games.ultimatestacktrainer&hl=en_CA

It's only a little bit more

And you can use it for any/all stacks

I just think it's a lot better value [/quote]

Thanks, Duster. Ordered that one as well. Any port in a storm...
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Apr 2, 2019 03:15PM)
[quote]On Mar 31, 2019, Sudo Nimh wrote:
I learned my stacks by simply writing the stack numbers on the back of each card in large bold black marker....hen I run through the faces and try to determine the numbers on the back. Do that a bunch of times, then do the opposite by going through the backs and trying to determine the faces. Once I think I've got them decent enough, I then mix them face-up and face-down and try to do same. Any cards I get wrong at this point, are set aside..[/quote]

I've cut some of Sudo's post so that it is EXACTLY how I do this. The one change would be I don't set wrong cards to the side, they go back in the stack after I verbalize them a couple of times.

As for the question regarding whether this video will help you memorize another deck. Well, it will help in a couple of ways: 1.) You get new peg systems for both cards (Ace Ventura versus, say, a face) and the numbers (50 states versus, for example, King Cobra). 2.) You get some fun examples of how to relate card to numbers that would be difficult if you tried doing it without a good mnemonic system already.

If you use mnemonics, it's always nice to have another pegging system anyway. Now, if you already have a good set of mnemonic systems, this won't really help all that much but, again, if you have a good mnemonic system, then you shouldn't need help on this right? That's literally the point.

I bought this even though I already knew the stack through the Memory Arts system but I thought it was really nicely done. That is even despite the blurred out images and factual inaccuracies that popped up (I'd use number of teeth for 32 for example, and just move on).

All in all, very well done and a great tool for anyone who wants to memorize the Mnemonic stack. I still have to say that the easiest stack for me to learn, by far, was the Solution by Brooks and Gairlock ( http://www.atlasmentalism.com/AtlasProductsCatalog.html ).
Message: Posted by: Sudo Nimh (Apr 2, 2019 09:00PM)
I'll add this small point:

When I learned my first stack (the Joyal), I wasn't so enthused at the time because I'd not worked with this tool before. But once I had it down and began exploring the possibilities, learning the other two stacks later was a breeze because I could now fully appreciate it's applications. A memorized stack is a memorized stack, but truly, Tamariz's stack is the Cadillac of memdecks. It has become such an integral part of my card work now. If you're a Mentalist who doesn't shun cards, it is an absolute necessity - in my opinion. For those of you who are learning the stack for the first time, all I can say is "stick with it." Your patience and perseverance will pay off ten-fold in the end - I promise.

After memorizing it and using it regularly, you'll wake up one day and have a good laugh while wondering why you didn't learn it sooner.
Message: Posted by: teenagelabotomy42 (Apr 19, 2019 01:12AM)
I enjoyed the John Born book on mem work
Message: Posted by: debaser (May 4, 2019 02:36PM)
[quote]On Apr 19, 2019, teenagelabotomy42 wrote:
I enjoyed the John Born book on mem work [/quote]

What is that called?
Message: Posted by: tjackson8685 (May 14, 2019 08:08PM)
A follow-up. I have tried several mem deck methods and none stuck except for this one. I changed some of the specific images Mr Lax suggests to things that were more associated with certain numbers for me but otherwise it has been 2 months and his system works for me.
Message: Posted by: G3LO (May 23, 2019 02:27PM)
Does anyone know the name of the ACAAN trick Justin Flom performs in Mneumonica Trainer?
Message: Posted by: imacmagic (Jun 6, 2019 08:37PM)
I'm not sure if Justin is performing A.A.C.A.A.N. by Asi Wind, but I know you can use Mneumonica with A.A.C.A.A.N. and achieve a very similar effect.