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Topic: Break-Apart Production Box
Message: Posted by: FrankFindley (May 30, 2019 10:01PM)
I really enjoy watching dealer demos as sometimes you see principles and methods you know implemented in ways you haven't seen. One recent example is the below "Break-Apart Production Box". Does anyone know its history?

[youtube]YRDPDQnqvWY[/youtube]
[youtube]R3q8mtBL7xU[/youtube]
[youtube]BBfZ2E5Jjus[/youtube]
Message: Posted by: JNeal (May 30, 2019 10:56PM)
Silk Encyclopedia Volume 1

In the chapter on quantity productions with apparatus, it shows the same prop. Around page 300 (?0

Since that book must have been published in the late 40's or early 50's... it is an old idea, and as suggested in the Silk Encyclopedia.. probably comes from England.
Message: Posted by: FrankFindley (May 30, 2019 11:36PM)
Thank you! Page 199, "Break-A-Way Production Box". Lots of laughs, it is right after the Wonder Box yet I never noticed it!

This will definitely help me track it down.
Message: Posted by: FrankFindley (May 30, 2019 11:53PM)
Oh my, there are some beautiful ones:

Okito-Nielson
[img]https://nnmagic.com/store/images/products/on_breakaway.jpg[/img]

Michael Baker
[img]https://www.magiccollectibles.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/DSC_0911.png[/img]
Message: Posted by: chmara (May 31, 2019 03:40AM)
While the Okito/Nielsen is beautiful, the one I have I got years ago from a California dealer -- and now have it for sale on my lists (prviouslym and to come when I am back in commission healthwise. It is fast, clever and unexpected when it drops.PM me if interested.....and I will get bsvk to you around hospital appointments.
Message: Posted by: jimgerrish (May 31, 2019 04:21AM)
Another variation from 1926 is R.M. Jamison's Production Box which never made it into the Rice Encyclopedia and so is virtually unknown, but definitely worth knowing about if you believe smaller is better when it comes to production boxes. If you want to make something that no one else is likely to have, give it a try. It's in our Mini-Mysteries Book 3 at The Magic Nook: https://www.magicnook.com/MiniMysteries/MM3-05JamisonProductionBox.htm
Message: Posted by: FrankFindley (May 31, 2019 10:44AM)
The addition of cut outs is really fascinating. May be one of those rare cases where "improvements" are actually an improvement.

[img]http://www.themagicdepot.com/images/BrkAwyProdBx.jpg[/img]

[quote]On May 31, 2019, chmara wrote:
While the Okito/Nielsen is beautiful, the one I have I got years ago from a California dealer -- and now have it for sale on my lists (prviouslym and to come when I am back in commission healthwise. It is fast, clever and unexpected when it drops.PM me if interested.....and I will get bsvk to you around hospital appointments. [/quote]

Thanks, chmara. Hope your recovery is speedy! I am primarily interested in it from a design standpoint so not looking for one to use. But I am interested if you recall who manufactured it. It seemed to be a well known item in 50s but has dissapeared. Shame because it is so deceptive.
Message: Posted by: FrankFindley (May 31, 2019 12:56PM)
So Davenports included it in their catalog in 1950 along with the other now classic boxes. Note the demon logo which suggests it was part of their line. So it would have been extremely well known at that time in both England and US confirming Rices' Encyclopedia.

[img]https://www.picclickimg.com/d/w1600/pict/122433723408_/Davenports-Magic-Catalogue-Circa-1950-8-Pages-Folded-Unstapled.jpg[/img]
[img]https://www.picclickimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/ogoAAOSw03lY5hRQ/$/Davenports-Magic-Catalogue-Circa-1950-8-Pages-Folded-Unstapled-_57.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: FrankFindley (May 31, 2019 08:15PM)
Paul Osborne had a Shop To Stage article on the breakaway box in the October 2008 M-U-M magazine pages 30-31. He included plans for construction. The article contained an ad from the 1947 National Magic Catalog #7 which listed it for $7.50!
Message: Posted by: FrankFindley (May 31, 2019 11:11PM)
So the earliest reference to that name I can find is by Hornmann in a 1917 Sphinx. In it he refers to "my latest invention: BREAKAWAY PRODUCTION BOX". Does anyone have a 1917/1918 Hornmann Magic Company Catalog they could use to verify this refers to the same apparatus?

[img]http://www.libertyassociate.com/TheMagicCafe/Hornmann.JPG[/img]
Message: Posted by: FrankFindley (Jun 1, 2019 07:59PM)
Just a note for those interested in the version with the cut outs. It is part of Sunil Batra's line of products. So it may be an innovation by him.

[img]http://www.libertyassociate.com/TheMagicCafe/bawayprodbox.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jun 3, 2019 02:18AM)
Abbott's made this prop as well for many years. It sat up high in a glass case. No one ever suggested taking a look at it. They only painted it all black with some silver paint markings. Not very colorful for a stage prop.
Message: Posted by: randirain (Jun 8, 2019 04:10PM)
I'm guessing it's still sitting on a shelf at Magic etc. I bet they'll give you a hell of deal on it.

Randi
Message: Posted by: wunceaponatime (Jun 13, 2019 05:05PM)
One of my first big tricks. Bought it at the old Circle Magic Shop in NYC. Multiple colors with geometric shapes decorating the box. Very deceptive even at short distances.

David
Message: Posted by: Dan Ford (Jun 13, 2019 05:35PM)
[quote]On Jun 1, 2019, FrankFindley wrote:
Just a note for those interested in the version with the cut outs. It is part of Sunil Batra's line of products. So it may be an innovation by him.

[img]http://www.libertyassociate.com/TheMagicCafe/bawayprodbox.jpg[/img] [/quote]

I have the same one pictured in your post and just used it a month ago to produce various 36 inch picture silks for a cover to produce a 36 bloom bouquet. Very deceptive.
Message: Posted by: FrankFindley (Jun 14, 2019 09:34PM)
[quote]On Jun 13, 2019, Dan Ford wrote:
I have the same one pictured in your post and just used it a month ago to produce various 36 inch picture silks for a cover to produce a 36 bloom bouquet. Very deceptive. [/quote]

Wonderful! How did you learn of this style of production box?

Did some more digging. It turns out that this box is a variation of the "Sleeve Production" cabinet manufactured by Okito in the early 1900s. The Okito Sleeve production cabinet is covered in the amazing books/DVDs "The Oriental magic of the Bambergs". Such a wonderful resource that series is!

The advantage of the Breakaway Production box is that the lid and bottom are kept with it making handling easier and visually isolating the box from a table. But the illusion is just as powerful in the Sleeve Production cabinet, maybe even a little more so.

[img]http://www.libertyassociate.com/TheMagicCafe/SleeveProductionOkito2.png[/img]
[img]http://www.libertyassociate.com/TheMagicCafe/SleeveProductionOkito.png[/img]
[img]http://www.libertyassociate.com/TheMagicCafe/SleeveProductionOkito3.png[/img]
Message: Posted by: Dan Ford (Jun 15, 2019 10:37AM)
[quote]On Jun 14, 2019, FrankFindley wrote:
[quote]On Jun 13, 2019, Dan Ford wrote:
I have the same one pictured in your post and just used it a month ago to produce various 36 inch picture silks for a cover to produce a 36 bloom bouquet. Very deceptive. [/quote]

Wonderful! How did you learn of this style of production box?

Did some more digging. It turns out that this box is a variation of the "Sleeve Production" cabinet manufactured by Okito in the early 1900s. The Okito Sleeve production cabinet is covered in the amazing books/DVDs "The Oriental magic of the Bambergs". Such a wonderful resource that series is!

The advantage of the Breakaway Production box is that the lid and bottom are kept with it making handling easier and visually isolating the box from a table. But the illusion is just as powerful in the Sleeve Production cabinet, maybe even a little more so.

I learned Magic from books, ( I am in my 70's) and it was in the silk encyclopedia as noted. I acquired many years ago at a flea market for magic apparatus. One person's trash is another person's gold....
Message: Posted by: FrankFindley (Jun 19, 2019 06:50PM)
Good flea market find, Dan.

More info on Sleeve Production, Stevens always had good ad copy:

[img]http://www.libertyassociate.com/TheMagicCafe/Sleeveprod.png[/img]
Message: Posted by: FrankFindley (Jun 19, 2019 08:48PM)
Does anyone have the 1909 Bamberg Magic and Novelty Co. Catalogue? The Okito book/DVDs suggest the Sleeve Production cabinet was created in the very early 1900s. And the above Hornmann ad suggests that the Breakaway Production box came in 1917. We know the ghost tube came about in 1919 and was highly explored in magic magazines as a new effect from 1920 to 1935. Many variations were invented during this time including the Botania. By 1933 the final classic variation, the Genii Tube, was being sold.

[img]https://geniimagazine.com/wiki/images/a/a4/GeniiTube.jpg[/img]

So it seems the history is:

Sleeve Production cabinet {~1905) -> Breakaway Production box(1916/1917)-> Ghost Tube (1919)-> Genii Tube (1933)

That is an amazing rate of innovation. I would love to verify the Okito and Hornmann dates by the actual catalogs.
Message: Posted by: Dan Ford (Jun 19, 2019 09:02PM)
Abbott's put out a Continental Cabinet that worked on the same principle as Okito's Sleeve Production in the 70's, which I still use to this day. Very deceptive! It had a Dragon stenciled on the 4 sides which are no longer there, as I changed the outside look. Quite a l**d chamber.
Message: Posted by: FrankFindley (Jun 20, 2019 12:00PM)
[quote]On Jun 19, 2019, Dan Ford wrote:
Abbott's put out a Continental Cabinet that worked on the same principle as Okito's Sleeve Production in the 70's, which I still use to this day. Very deceptive! It had a Dragon stenciled on the 4 sides which are no longer there, as I changed the outside look. Quite a l**d chamber. [/quote]

Indeed, it is in my first Abbott's catalog from 1976! It looks like it may still be available. Here it is in action:

[youtube]qdengWZXlNw[/youtube]

[quote]On Jun 3, 2019, Bill Hegbli wrote:
Abbott's made this prop as well for many years. It sat up high in a glass case. No one ever suggested taking a look at it. They only painted it all black with some silver paint markings. Not very colorful for a stage prop. [/quote]


Bill, is the Continental Cabinet the prop of which you were thinking or did they have another which was a Breakaway box?
Message: Posted by: FrankFindley (Dec 10, 2019 10:28PM)
For those who like to DIY, Paul Osborne released plans for construction of the breaksway box in his [i]Shop to Stage[/i] column in the October 2008 MUM magazine. Though I think he greatly underestimated the usefullness of this prop. This apparatus is so much more than simply a means to produce silks for use in other effects.

Yesterday I performed it at the IBM Ring 56 monthly meeting and it was very well received. It was a story based presentation. From it was produced a dozen flowers, five 4 inch balls, four 36 inch silks, one hundred one inch authentic chinese coins, two oranges, a bananna, and a string of large flags. This was after sevral corresponding items were removed from the box further verifying it was empty prior to the productions.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Dec 10, 2019 11:37PM)
[quote]On Jun 20, 2019, FrankFindley wrote:

[quote]On Jun 3, 2019, Bill Hegbli wrote:
Abbott's made this prop as well for many years. It sat up high in a glass case. No one ever suggested taking a look at it. They only painted it all black with some silver paint markings. Not very colorful for a stage prop. [/quote]


Bill, is the Continental Cabinet the prop of which you were thinking or did they have another which was a Breakaway box? [/quote]


No it was the one that you arm was inserted into, and the top and bottom fell open to show empty. I just checked Abbott's website, it is no longer listed, to bad and Greg made a video of it a while back.