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Topic: What scientific laws does magic break?
Message: Posted by: slyhand (Jun 13, 2019 10:53AM)
Can you name some scientific laws or theories that magic breaks and give examples?

Example: Gravitational theory / Any levitation or suspension.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jun 13, 2019 07:33PM)
? science is about elegant rules with predictive power. :)
Our little craft is about getting people to recall the limits of their knowledge and perceptions. They know it's a trick. They know that you know it's a trick. The secret is how to get them to engage themselves in being tricked.
The laws? Like distinguishing "me" from "not me", believing in "object permanence" and "theory of mind"? Basic plots. :D
As your will directs your arm to move - magic permits things outside your person to move.
As you imagine what you will or what you choose to consider, magic permits what you imagine may be projected into or gleaned from another person's mind.
As you choose what you will do, magic permits your choice to be enacted by others.
As you forget a thing and it seems to slip away from your inner world, magic permits you to make things vanish in the worlds of others.
Message: Posted by: funsway (Jun 25, 2019 03:27AM)
Science and physical technology can be viewed as attempts to control one's relationship with nature and other people --
to reduce decisions to predictable mechanics and cybernetic responses in place of reasoned thought over multiple options.

Alchemy was more about controlling thinking and creativity than chemistry and metallurgy.

So, performance magic can break the "mental sloth" cycle by challenging any perceived ability to control ones environment or universe or world view.
I agree with Jonathan's "getting people to recall" except that today's youth may have nothing to recall that is not vicarious.
Too many believe that life is a multiple choice exam between limited choices provided by others.

Thus, magic may be a way of introducing the creativity and imagination missed in the formative years of learning.

The largest "scientific law" to be broken is the notion that there is a single cause or answer for everything.
Message: Posted by: slyhand (Jul 2, 2019 06:13PM)
I am sure both Jonathan and Funsway are much smarter than I am. I don't understand a thing either of them said. I think my question was pretty simple but instead of answering it with a simple answer (as in my example) they needed to turn it into something else. Thank you. Both must be fun at parties.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jul 6, 2019 11:02PM)
? One of the first things one has to believe before building "laws of science" is that the world itself does not depend upon what we see or whether we wish to see it. I.E. that anyone would and could see the same thing. That's how we (at least as far back as Newton) extended Euclid's geometry of ideal objects to physical matter. Magic often plays with that subjective reality belief. We do that by looking back to a guy named Gorgias who claimed that any absolute certain knowledge of the world is impossible. So whatever we demonstrate is either the same as what they could see or feel or do - or something else unknown. We admire that "coin which falls up" bit. :)

Continuing with Newton, conservation laws are built up from notions including object permanence. The object at rest is presumed to remain even when you're not looking at it. We put a cloth over something and then ... all bets are off. An object at rest tends to stay at rest unless acted upon by an outside force. But we often demonstrate otherwise. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Yet in magic not only do things seem to move at our whim but often without recoil or any apparent expenditure of force at all! Every bit of reasoning about an objective world based upon object constancy, cause/effect, and conservation of (??) is open to subversive demonstration.

As of Descartes, who lived just before Newton, the notion of thoughts and beliefs being somehow inserted into our awareness much as the shadows are made in Plato's allegorical cave, was explored. As he put it (Principles of Philosophy) we cannot doubt of our existence while we doubt. The experience of self and its narrative leaves the matter of just who or what is telling this story - how much is "self"? Plato's cave with shadows or a Cartesian Theater - it could all be a show.

Yup, the philosophical foundations of material science are significant. And in magic all those "givens" are conditional ;), the difference between effect and method. :D
Message: Posted by: slyhand (Jul 8, 2019 01:54PM)

Now you are just f-ing with me.
Message: Posted by: TomB (Jul 27, 2019 12:10AM)
Fitzkee trilogy is what you are looking for.

A magician plays the wizard with supernatural powers. So he breaks all the laws of nature. Gravity is suspended, people and objects float, liquid runs uphill. Teleportation is possible. Telekenisis is possible. Solid objects move thru solid objects. Time can be warped. Death is not permanent. Pain is not real. Perpetual motion becomes valid.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Jul 27, 2019 07:14AM)
YUP! Read Fitzkee'a list of the nineteen EFFECTS, in his trilogy.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jul 31, 2019 06:41PM)
From July 11, 2014 05:59 am "I am not sure that Fitzkee's list is the last word but not all tricks can be classified into one category. " https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=66830&forum=41
I like time travel tricks :)