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Topic: Professors nightmare to one rope ending. CLEAN
Message: Posted by: countrymaven (Jun 25, 2019 08:16AM)
Hi I am asking you if there would be an interest in doing a professors nightmare then ending in very clean one rope ending. This is done a la Pavel (I didn't know him but thank him for his great creativity) w ma...ts. But it is done better. Basically I use this in my shows. It is perfect for even the occasional kids who think they know the P.N. This should last almost forever. I have found a great way to manufacture them. But it is labor intensive.

I usually have audience members pull on each rope. They just arent going to detect anything. After you make them one, you can display the rope freely. It does not have to be held in a certain position. It can be done close up too, with a little movement and a little instruction. I am just trying to see if there would be any demand for this. Should last you forever. For me, it is nice to have an effect in the show supplies that is always ready to go, never needs to be updated. No more rope needed. The audience seems to "get" the clean open display of the rope at the end. It would be sold for about 25 dollars with shipping. I could not afford to sell it through a dealer. their markup would put it out of reach of the average magician. I am NOT TRYING TO SELL THIS. I appreciate all of you here on the rope forum who helped me finally come up with my rope routine. I am just trying to get your feedback on whether this is something you could possibly use in this price range or not. Again, it is pretty simple. Professors Nightmare. Then end in a simple and clean and quick ONE ROPE TRANSFORMATION. WHICH CAN BE CLEANLY SHOWN. NO SWITCHES. Let me know. I will not sell any. I am just asking if there is any interest among performers. thanks again for all of your contributions and feedback. And thank you Pavel. I feel you never really got credit for all your great inventions. IN the way you deserved!!!
Message: Posted by: countrymaven (Jun 25, 2019 12:39PM)
Ok I will make it more clear. Please just press on "like" if you would possibly be interested in this. this is not an attempt to sell it , just to see that there is interest out there. There are all kinds of rope gymnastic routines out there. Not many of them end in a super clean one rope ending with no switches. With a completely open display of the whole rope. To audiences, it is a miracle. They just "examined" the three ropes.
Message: Posted by: Zauberman (Jun 26, 2019 01:22PM)
Perhaps a video of you using/performing with these ropes?

Can these ropes be examined and if not....do you think the ropes need to be examined by the spectators when performing Prof. Nightmare???

And as for Pavel... R.I.P mein Freund :-)
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jun 26, 2019 02:43PM)
Zauberman, there is a couple versions of the Professor Nitemare routine starting out with a one long length of rope. The magician cuts the rope into 3 unequal pieces of rope from this one long piece of rope. That is the best way to start the Professor Nitemare effect if you do not have the 3 pieces examined at the start of the effect. In some performing, as in a stage setting, it is not easy to have the ropes examined do to stage height, and a person having to the foot of the stage, to verify the ropes so not stretch and are just normal rope.

Using this method, would make countrymarven's ending come full circle in the routine and presentation.

The only way to prove the rope is regular with just the Professor Nitemare 3 ropes is throw the rope into the audience at the end. Of course that would mean, making a new set of ropes for each performance.

Just to note, I have never seen a magician start with on long length of rope, that is how much magician's hate to buy rope, and pre-show preparation of their props. I am sure adding this would increase the mystery of this famous classic rope effect.
Message: Posted by: thomasR (Jun 27, 2019 07:02PM)
Bill.... youíve never seen Pop Haydn or Mac King? They both start with a long piece of rope, and end with a long piece of rope.
Message: Posted by: countrymaven (Jul 1, 2019 08:27PM)
Yes thomasR. I know of the versions. But with this version, there is no hiding, no quick display and also no switch. I find that once they pull on the ropes, basically examining them, when you make it one, they never ask to see them. The display is of the whole rope. you are not hiding a joint. And there is not switch either. So it is very magical for spectators. I like this because you could do it in a tshirt, never go to your pockets and show the whole one rope cleanly at the end. I am not aware of another version currently done that can do this. In Pop's version there is no handout of the rope, neither is it necessary to do so here. Much less with a clean show of the whole rope.
Message: Posted by: countrymaven (Jul 1, 2019 09:15PM)
Also, nobody should refer to Mac King's routine in his show; he has not released that. Here is a description of the one he markets:
Phase 1. A basic cut and restoration of a piece of rope. The phase ends with the "let's start over" line while displaying the restored rope.

Phase 2. The rope is cut in half by the spectator and two pieces are clearly displayed in each hand of the magi. The two pieces are tied together at the ends so that the rope looks like one long piece with a knot in the middle. The knot then slides off the rope, the rope is restored, and the knot is tossed to the audience.

Phase 3. Spectator cuts rope into two pieces and keeps one, while magi keeps the other. Magi and spec both tie the two ends of their ropes together to form a loop. The spectator cuts the magi's rope and then cuts hers so that each have a length of rope with a knot in the middle. The spec puts down the scissors. Magi tries to slide his knot off his rope as in phase two, but cannot. The spec tries her knot and it slides off her rope and the rope is restored. Magi extends his rope to the spec and she slides the knot off and restores the magi's rope as well.

This and Pop Haydn's are different animals. Cut and restored. If anyone knows of another effect other than Pavel's where three separate ropes are examined (not fully) and handled by the audience, the PN is performed, then they are cleanly made into one rope almost instantly, with no hidden joints and without covering let me know. Again, this is not a cut and restored.
Message: Posted by: thomasR (Jul 1, 2019 11:20PM)
I was referring to Bill saying heís never seen a magician ďstart with a long length of rope.Ē
Message: Posted by: Pop Haydn (Jul 2, 2019 06:49PM)
In my routine, The Mongolian Pop Knot, the long rope is always examined thoroughly at the beginning of the routine. Cut and Restored, Second Cut and Restored into Professor's Nightmare, Three equal ropes are tied together and the knots pulled off. The restored rope is shown and displayed, but not examined.

Message: Posted by: countrymaven (Jul 2, 2019 07:13PM)
Dear Pop, You are the master. I am not trying to detract in any way from your masterpiece. I was only trying to see if there was interest in a different routine with no extra rope replacement needed. I will just keep this treasure. No need to try to market something with a high cost of manufacturing.
Message: Posted by: Pop Haydn (Jul 3, 2019 01:45AM)
[quote]On Jul 2, 2019, countrymaven wrote:
Dear Pop, You are the master. I am not trying to detract in any way from your masterpiece. I was only trying to see if there was interest in a different routine with no extra rope replacement needed. I will just keep this treasure. No need to try to market something with a high cost of manufacturing. [/quote]

I didn't mean anything but to clarify my routine, and its features.

What you have sounds great. I would love to see it. There are always different ways to approach a thing.
Message: Posted by: countrymaven (Jul 3, 2019 04:41AM)
I really appreciate the results. I have decided the best way to market this is to sell it with a booklet and magnets.
It is a diy project but it will save them money and will also let you make another one in the future if you need one.

Pop, I am a huge fan of yours. Your magic is "golden."
Message: Posted by: FrankFindley (Jul 3, 2019 07:55AM)
[quote]On Jul 3, 2019, countrymaven wrote:
I really appreciate the results. I have decided the best way to market this is to sell it with a booklet and magnets.
It is a diy project but it will save them money and will also let you make another one in the future if you need one.[/quote]

This is a good approach as it allows it to be incorporated into different routines. For example, Sankey has a routine where the ropes are black with white tips resembling wands. The tips slide along the rope for a visual fusion of the three pieces to one (via a different method than yours). It looks great and works good for kids parties where you are closeup. But it is bad for larger platform or stage where the black ropes are very hard to see. Net, giving people the opportunity to easily customize it for their conditions outweighs the DIY aspect in my opinion.
Message: Posted by: countrymaven (Jul 3, 2019 02:16PM)
Great point. Frank. YOu are right. the diy project has to have nice advantages for it to be worth it.
I would like to credit Pavel again. He pioneered this when the glues etc were not all that. So he will get a lot of credit for this.
Pavel was way ahead of his time. He probably never earned near what he should have from his incredible inventions, particularly his rope magic inventions.
Message: Posted by: FrankFindley (Jul 3, 2019 05:37PM)
[quote]On Jul 3, 2019, countrymaven wrote:
I would like to credit Pavel again. He pioneered this when the glues etc were not all that. So he will get a lot of credit for this.
Pavel was way ahead of his time. He probably never earned near what he should have from his incredible inventions, particularly his rope magic inventions. [/quote]

Indeed. Did you ever hear Daryl tell the story of how Pavel gave him the rights to market Acrobatic Knot (aka Fantastic Knot/Jumping Knot of Pakistan)? Daryl heavily admired Pavel and was extremely nervous about approaching him. But Pavel was super excited just to find a magician who appreciated his work! So he sold the rights to Daryl for what Daryl described as "a pittance". But this allowed Daryl to refine and aggressively market it and keep it from falling into obscurity. So Pavel's magic lives on.
Message: Posted by: countrymaven (Jul 3, 2019 05:49PM)
Thanks I really appreciate that story. God bless Daryl and Pavel. I only wish I could know them. I do, but only through their videos.
Message: Posted by: countrymaven (Jul 3, 2019 09:10PM)
I just did this in a show today. Incredible reactions at the end when it becomes one rope. Think about it . you had people pull on three different sized ropes. to them they are normal. They see them turn to all the same size . Then to three different sizes. Then when they see them instantly turn to one, and you freely display it without holding any seam etc,... at that point they just give up. they really think you are doing a miracle with ropes. There is no apparent answer. I love this. Put it in your show case. It is always ready. No problem. For thousands of performances. Then more on top of that. wow. Since it is this easy, I am sure I will add a finale to it. Like a dove production. once you get this down, adding one more brain blower on the end would not be too hard . hehe.
Message: Posted by: DrVG (Jul 3, 2019 10:57PM)
Hello gentlemen, I would like to seek your advice regarding the most convincing false count for 3 'similar' ropes ?

Also from your experience, is it better to start with 3 equal length or 3 different sizes ?

Message: Posted by: countrymaven (Jul 4, 2019 06:42AM)
My advice may not be too good. But Starting with three ropes which can be examined is a very strong point.
I think the false count in any form, since they are essentially the same m.o, is great. The key is practicing it until
it no longer looks false . hehe. it looks smooth just like you are counting three ropes. Remember too, it is natural to bungle a tiny bit as you grab another rope (during the sw00ch.....) That is what makes the false count sure fire. YOu almost can't do it wrong.... It looks natural. If you practice it.
Message: Posted by: FrankFindley (Jul 4, 2019 07:57AM)
[quote]On Jul 3, 2019, DrVG wrote:
Also from your experience, is it better to start with 3 equal length or 3 different sizes ?

Different sizes. This allows you to slowly "stretch" the ropes. This is the most powerful illusion available in the trick. It isn't 'three different length ropes *poof* they are the same' but rather 'three different length ropes slowly and visibly become the same'.

Watch Daryl perform it as part of his rope routine. Note how he tugs on rope at start and in count. This is important psychological piece to establish ropes are solid before and after transformation. The PN section starts at 2 minutes 37 seconds. The count is at 5 minutes 21 seconds.

Message: Posted by: countrymaven (Jul 5, 2019 09:33AM)
Awesome Frank . I love Daryl. Yes the slow motion changing of sizes is truly the great part of this.
You are great. Great thinking and you came to the crux of the matter. Yes!!!
Message: Posted by: countrymaven (Aug 20, 2019 02:45PM)
Ok here is my rope routine. I let spectators pull on 3 different sized ropes. I do a Pavel style Professor's nightmare. Then cleanly turn them to one rope. I mean clean hands are open, moving over the rope. No special joints. Next I find the scissors and do a rope sw..tch. They do not expect it. I do a c n restored rope, then the Prof nightmare again, then end with one rope (No gimmicks) and back again. I end clean and pass the ropes out. AFter this, they think you can do any type of miracles with a rope. Lots of audience involvement. that is very important in selling it too. Rope solos don't sell. Make it a symphony with some audience members.
Message: Posted by: Al Schneider (Aug 21, 2019 09:56AM)
My two cents.

This is a workers point of view.

Professor's Nightmare is one of my goto tricks when going out for the evening.

That and Expansion of Texture.

It was also a staple when I worked in a coffee shop.
I maned a table in the back of the shop.
Then, my props lay all over the table and I would pick up something to do a trick.

My take on this routine is a bit different.

I use very short ropes. When I gather the ends I don't try to be sneaky. They have no idea which rope wraps around which.

Then I stretch them and that gets a good reaction.

I think the critical part is showing three equal pieces. With the short pieces a count can be done right in front of their faces.
It can look incredibly fair.

But to me, here is the important part. I say, "But just moments ago they were different lengths."

As quickly as I can with little motion, the ropes are re-gripped to fall to three different lengths.

It gets gasps.

Never occurred to me to have the rope examined.
Message: Posted by: countrymaven (Aug 21, 2019 09:57PM)
I like that tip Al. I hand it out since I do the first transformation into one rope w the Pavel gimmicked ropes. It is so clean people can suspect something. so to me doing a cut and rest. rope after an undetected sw....ch goes over well. hehe. They just can't reverse engineer it since you are finding scissors and the sw...ch is done at that time.

I don't have to do the Prof's nightmare again in the routine.
Your tip is very important. You really have to point out the change in the lengths. Some people may not notice unless you make it clear.
Message: Posted by: Al Schneider (Aug 22, 2019 10:29AM)

I have been giving all this some thought. As you know, I am concerned about what goes on in the specs mind. Here is a thought. Possibly, when doing Prof Nightmare, three ropes should be shown, stretched, UN-stretched, and put away. Reason: the specs will retain in their mind that ropes changed length. If that is part of a larger routine, that will be lost in their memory. Then they will remember just rope stuff. If that routine is loaded with cute lines and plays on words, they will remember that you did cute stuff with rope. Now, this all works. It depends on what you want to be remembered as.

This whole thing in my mind was triggered by a statement Karel Fox gave me when I first got into magic. He said, "Don't mix effects." I interpret that as when doing an effect; keep it to one effect. I think of another of my friends doing a show. Jay Marshall did a vanishing cane routine. In the whole routine the only magic is the cane disappearing. It is really pro. He made a living doing it. I think of other routines with canes. I can't remember what the effect was. But I will never forget Jay's.

Now, I am not criticizing your style. But I am wondering what you really want your audience to remember after seeing your act. Jay's style was very remember-able. I wish I had the power on stage he had. Simply, Excalibur.
Message: Posted by: countrymaven (Aug 22, 2019 02:40PM)
It is great we all have our own styles. I keep tweaking things until the spectators start nearly accusing me of witchcraft or something similar. To me, when they act stunned, like they have seen a true miracle, I stop tweaking it, for a little while hehe.

So again, I respect different styles in magic. I also am a comedy magician. It is much easier, I find, to make people burst out in laughter if they are fried by an effect. It may not work for others the same way.
Message: Posted by: Al Schneider (Aug 22, 2019 05:22PM)
Any chance of seeing a vid of your work?
Message: Posted by: thomasR (Aug 22, 2019 05:46PM)
Iím not sure how you improve on Pop Haydns routine. His rope is examined, cut, restored, cut twice, shown to be 3 equal pieces, show to be 3 different pieces, Stretched to be equal pieces, restored into one long piece. How do you improve on that!? I canít so I perform popís routine! Ha.
Message: Posted by: Al Schneider (Aug 22, 2019 06:57PM)
I already have. It will be in my next book. Ha.
Message: Posted by: Pop Haydn (Aug 22, 2019 10:39PM)
I look forward to that, Al. I am a big fan.
Message: Posted by: countrymaven (Aug 23, 2019 01:49PM)
I think Al's work and Pop's work are masterful. I agree how could you improve on them.
I merely wanted to develop a routine that used Pavel's principles. I just felt close to Pavel when I saw his videos and read about him. What a genius.

Going from the Prof's N. to a complete restoration is so utterly clean (no special hand positions--you show them the whole clean rope) that it seems reasonable for people to suspect some type of gimmickry. But doing a sw....ch while reaching for the scissors and going into a c n r routine that leaves them fried and the rope in their hands seemed a good way to go from Pavel, and to end in their hands.

I think we are spoiled to have access to so much great magic today. Like Pop's and Al's. I remember the days when you ordered from a catalog (or didn't) and you never knew what you would get, despite their claims.
Message: Posted by: John Long (Aug 24, 2019 09:39PM)
As stated above, seeing a demo would help evaluate.

For those that may be thinking of using Countrymaven's method or Whit(Pop) Hadyn's MPK,:

- As far as I can tell, Countrymaven's method looks the same as MPK, to the audience (but the two are different, and Countrymaven has been quite open about those differences)

- You will consume rope in each performance of MPK, and even more in practice (due to repetition), but Countrymaven's seems to involve just a single set of rope(s).

(To deal with the consumption of rope during *practice* of MPK, I had separate sets made up for each phase,
and would wrap/rewrap masking tape as needed to allow me to reuse the same rope over and over. )

Message: Posted by: Al Schneider (Aug 25, 2019 04:01AM)
Thought I would present a historical perspective that reveals my age.

In 1960 when I started magic I did a trick called 3 to 1. It looked like a Prof N setup when the ropes are equal. That was how the ropes were introduced. The ropes were shown separate and two knots tied kinda like MPK. I think the trick was popular at the time. The handling was taught with two of the ends being held betwix fingers to display a solid one rope. I used a device like countrymaven's so I could openly display the final solid rope. I think this was before Prof Nightmare emerged. One: I am curious how countrymaven physically merges the three ropes to one. Of many methods to do this, what is he doing? Both Pop and I tie knots but finish different. A vid would be nice. Two: Pop is a practical guy. To me he is doing a cut restored using the 3 to 1 concept. But his key feature is focusing on the knot. First of all he does the cut business twice that clarifies the action for the audience. The un-stretch and stretch is thrown in as a side item. I think the audience will remember the cut and restored aspect. But the key is the by play with the knot. Look at the title: Mongolian Pop Knot. That is really the heart of the routine. I have improved the technical aspects of the routine but could never improve Pop's presentation thrust.
Message: Posted by: Ray Pierce (Aug 25, 2019 04:42AM)
I took a different path when I started developing my approach to it. I specifically challenged myself to take out all of the "moves" in the routine. It is a pure a unadulterated assault on the senses of the audience. It is as fair as possible and they are challenged to watch every moment as closely as possible. The I do an equally challenging restore in the spectator's hands. The second phase follows up with repeating even more simply with only two ropes. No moves, just pure magic. Then they restore to one single rope at the end. I have used it in the parlor for many years as well as being a staple of my international shows. In fact, when I was training all of the wizards for Caesars Magical Empire, every one of them learned this routine as an example of psychology of deception. It was released many years as, "The Ultimate Nightmare". 1/3 or the book was on technique and the rest was on the psychology that made everything invisible. Unfortunately it take practice which seems to be in short demand in recent years. I should re release it at some point as it has received very nice comments from some wonderful magicians and audiences world wide. The goas is to just take any effect and work for 10 years to make it flawless. That's all!
Message: Posted by: Al Schneider (Aug 25, 2019 09:23AM)

After doing magic for over 50 years I thought I had something.

You guys are making me wonder.

I would love to see some of your stuff.

Magic is a visual art,no?

Message: Posted by: Ray Pierce (Aug 25, 2019 07:32PM)
Al, I've always considered you a great thinker, I feel the same way. I'll be touring all through Europe for a few weeks in September. I'll try and shoot it for you. I ultimately don't care about method but all about the reaction it gets and how strong it plays. I have no desire to post it online but I would be glad to send you a private link!
Message: Posted by: Frank Yuen (Aug 28, 2019 09:26PM)
There have been a few instant three to one finales for the Professor's Nightmare using magnets. There was a Tenyo version as well as Quadropelets by Hen Fetsch. Kudos on the thinking but I don't think switching ropes while going for scissors warrants a release.
Message: Posted by: funsway (Sep 3, 2019 11:40AM)
I only did it once for a Magic Circle contest to play with magician judges, but could be incorporated into a regular routine.

After a C/R effect I had a spectator help cut the long rope into three equal pieces with large, cumbersome shears.
The result was three very unequal pieces. The magically made them equal to tie in loops for Linking ropes.

At the end all three linked ropes are in the hands of spectators to untie. Several in the audience held up the ropes to compare length.

Yes, a couple of switches were required, but not at then end when folks were watching.