(Close Window)
Topic: Hook by Eric Ross
Message: Posted by: Eric Ross (Jun 28, 2019 06:11AM)
Https://lostartmagic.com/products/hook

Hook by Eric Ross

Survival Kit Includes:

Specially crafted hook.
Proper string Xavior uses.
Access to instructional video.
Basically, everything you need to perform right out of the box.

Eric Ross has invented a trick that we swear will be the new roulette routine. We hope you will agree. Hook is strong, visual, simple and safe and even though it's pocket sized its perfect for close up and large stages alike. You cant help but get a strong reaction with HOOK from beginning to end.

Imagine placing a hook in your mouth. Several strings dangle from your lips.

One of them is attached, the rest are not.

You call on 5 spectators to pull on a string of their choice. Let the games begin.

No matter which string they pull, the last string always remains attached to the hook in your mouth. Youíre safe for another day.

"What a sick and twisted effect! I can't wait to perform it myself!" - Justin Flom

WORKS 100% OF THE TIME. No forces, no switches, it's self working and safe.

Everything you need is contained in the package.

We created the special prop for safe transport, easy setup, and maximimum performance results. Weíve also designed the packaging to purposely look unassuming. This way you can create the strongest reactions when they least expect it.

"You want reactions? THIS is how you get reactions!!" - Garrett Thomas

https://lostartmagic.com/products/hook
Message: Posted by: brandon90 (Jun 28, 2019 08:12AM)
Hey Eric -

I received this yesterday and am overall very impressed with it so far and excited to give it a shot on some unsuspecting people! I have two questions:

1. Xavior mentioned about a video link to your performance of this which I am curious to see however a link wasn't provided.

2. The hemp string I find to be a little "messy" meaning Im getting little pieces in my mouth which is not pleasant. *edit* do you have an alternate suggestion?

Any answers you may have would be great! Again, love the effect, pretty badass!
Message: Posted by: MagicBrent (Jun 28, 2019 11:50AM)
I too am grateful about my purchase. It's safe and well made. I thought of a presentation where after I explain the rules, I slam an airplane bottle of vodka(water) and slap my face to "get my adrenaline going"....I think it sells it. :)
Message: Posted by: brandon90 (Jun 28, 2019 12:03PM)
[quote]On Jun 28, 2019, MagicBrent wrote:
I too am grateful about my purchase. It's safe and well made. I thought of a presentation where after I explain the rules, I slam an airplane bottle of vodka(water) and slap my face to "get my adrenaline going"....I think it sells it. :) [/quote]

Are you having any issues with the hemp twin "shedding" ?
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Jun 28, 2019 01:36PM)
Jimmy Strange was performing this in the magic shop all through today. (MoM donít sell it, but he wanted to bring it in to show us, as itís going in his working set)

I absolutely love this. It had everyone freaking out with each pull of the twine....

Highly recommended

Hope this helps
Dominic
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Jun 28, 2019 03:38PM)
I really like this idea for Halloween gigs, but at this price point I first want to see an uncut performance. With better close-ups of the actual string and the hook attached going into the mouth. 'Cause that part better be dang convincing.
Message: Posted by: RNK (Jun 28, 2019 03:58PM)
I have this and performed it multiple times now and it really is convincing. The audience is truly on the edge of their seat with each pull and when you pull the last string out attached to the hook I have never had any questions.
Message: Posted by: videoman (Jun 28, 2019 04:16PM)
Anybody familiar with both of these that can make a comparison or recommendation?
Certainly a significant price difference. But wasnít Eric's Hook about $300.00 a few months ago?

Hooked by Ruben Vilagrand
http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/11066
Message: Posted by: MagicBrent (Jun 28, 2019 04:40PM)
Itís now 99 and thatís why I scooped it up. The twine does split and I havenít practiced with others. I was thinking kite string maybe?
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Jun 28, 2019 07:26PM)
[quote]On Jun 28, 2019, RNK wrote:
I have this and performed it multiple times now and it really is convincing. The audience is truly on the edge of their seat with each pull and when you pull the last string out attached to the hook I have never had any questions. [/quote]

Ok thanks for letting me know.
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Jun 28, 2019 07:38PM)
[quote]On Jun 28, 2019, videoman wrote:
Anybody familiar with both of these that can make a comparison or recommendation?
Certainly a significant price difference. But wasnít Eric's Hook about $300.00 a few months ago?

Hooked by Ruben Vilagrand
http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/11066 [/quote]

The premise of Rubenís looks like the razor blade illusion, while Ericís looks more like a Russion Roulette Spike thingy. It also looks like multiple hooks vs. one.
Message: Posted by: Eric Ross (Jun 29, 2019 08:44AM)
Thank you all! I'm glad you like it. I'm humbled by your kind words and support.

I'll try to answer your questions now. I am not on the Cafť often so please email me eric@ericrossmagic.com with any questions/concerns.

brandon90
1. My performance vid - There is an uncut performance of me on my website under Hook on product page.
2. Hemp String Splitting - You can go to any Walmart and pick up a different twine.

videoman
Price drop - After a few years of performing and a limited release on my website only, I decided to release to community. Lost Art and I decided to lower the price to be more affordable to some. We feel $99 is perfect.

Ruben's Hooked - I'm not too familiar with Ruben's version. I hear good things.
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Jun 29, 2019 09:44AM)
Thanks, Eric! That helps a lot! One more question! Do you need as much time as you take after you put everything in your mouth, before they start pulling strings? It looks like you are ďdoing smthĒ there to me, with all that moving your tongue around in your mouth right when the heat is on. I would find it more convincing to start pulling immediately. Is that possible with your method?
Message: Posted by: MagicBrent (Jun 29, 2019 10:05AM)
Unmasked, I noticed that too before I bought it. Donít let it deter you. To a spec it reaffirms how dangerous it is if you wince a little bit while you position it behind your teeth.
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Jun 29, 2019 01:30PM)
Ok, thanks! That makes sense. Glad you noticed it too. I would really like to hear what kind of settings have you performed this in. Using ones mouth is walking a delicate line, I find. People are easily grossed out. Itís a fine line between admiringly watching something amazing & bizarre and feeling the urge to vomit.
Message: Posted by: MR Effecto (Jun 29, 2019 02:10PM)
I just ordered this. Plan on using it in Vegas on Fremont st in August.
Message: Posted by: leosx1 (Jun 29, 2019 02:21PM)
Looks great and reminds me of Morgan Streblers Razors Edge, where the razorblade is kept in the hand, but could be held in the mouth too.
Message: Posted by: Ypnoze (Jun 29, 2019 03:11PM)
I'm curious to know if this could would work well if the hook is in the closed fist instead of the mouth, I have a script that I would like to keep, I like how clean it looks but having it inside my mouth doesn't suit my character
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Jun 29, 2019 07:21PM)
[quote]On Jun 29, 2019, Ypnoze wrote:
I'm curious to know if this could would work well if the hook is in the closed fist instead of the mouth, I have a script that I would like to keep, I like how clean it looks but having it inside my mouth doesn't suit my character [/quote]
Yep, it can work in the hand.
Message: Posted by: joseph (Jun 29, 2019 08:43PM)
A sure way to get hooked on magic ;) ...
Message: Posted by: MagicBrent (Jun 30, 2019 10:16AM)
You could do it in the hand but the mouth is such a vulnerable part of the body that it illicits a more visceral response from specs imho.
Message: Posted by: Ypnoze (Jun 30, 2019 10:26AM)
[quote]On Jun 30, 2019, MagicBrent wrote:
You could do it in the hand but the mouth is such a vulnerable part of the body that it illicits a more visceral response from specs imho. [/quote]

I totally agree with you, but my style is more comedic and I do have a script I want to keep, in a duo act that I do with a friend's, it could be done in mouth
Message: Posted by: RNK (Jun 30, 2019 11:02AM)
You can do it in the hand but it will not look as convincing as it does when the string attached to the hook comes out wet from the mouth.

After performing this several times now I wouldn't do it using the hand.
Message: Posted by: MR Effecto (Jun 30, 2019 11:24AM)
Follow RNK,S advice . I donít have this yet ( on Order) but he has always gave me Dependable advice.
Message: Posted by: Greg Rostami (Jun 30, 2019 03:41PM)
At the beginning of the performance, does the magician show that one of the strings is tied to the hook?

At the end of the performance, can the hook that's attached to the string be inspected?

Thank you,
Greg Rostami
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Jun 30, 2019 04:06PM)
[quote]On Jun 30, 2019, Greg Rostami wrote:
At the beginning of the performance, does the magician show that one of the strings is tied to the hook?

At the end of the performance, can the hook that's attached to the string be inspected?

Thank you,
Greg Rostami [/quote]
Nope, not possible with whatís going on.

At the beginning and end it cannot be thoroughly inspected, no.
Message: Posted by: MagicBrent (Jun 30, 2019 06:47PM)
I understand wondering if they can see the pieces first but youíre thinking like a magician. The way itís held with pieces going beyond the hook and to the side is enough and the fact that that only one is attached at the end proves it. My son who has adhd, is a scout, and has that keen mind asks ďhow do I know theyíre not all poop poop knots which is some kind of false knot.Ē Iím just sharing for fun here with you all. There is no false knots, itís a great trick! I just hate when my teen feels so superior with a wrong solution.
If you saw my previous thread about slapping my face and chugging a shot, with audience management, Iíd even be willing to have them pinch the knot and strings while I do that, itís that cool. Youíd have to have a real jerk interfere with your flow to inspect. Iíd do this with a female spec anyways. A man wouldnít care about your pain unless you were close to him. Iím working a routine for work where they have to trust me and I trust them to follow through with the difficult tasks I ask for.
Message: Posted by: Ypnoze (Jun 30, 2019 06:50PM)
Sorry if my question may sound stupid, but is it possible to talk with the hook inside your mouth?
Message: Posted by: RNK (Jun 30, 2019 09:30PM)
No one has ever asked me to inspect the hook and string when the trick was over. Not to mention, the hook and string is wet when it comes out of your mouth for so know one wants to touch it anyway!

RNK
Message: Posted by: devaind (Jun 30, 2019 11:49PM)
Will this product be sold by other dealers.
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Jul 1, 2019 09:30AM)
[quote]On Jun 30, 2019, RNK wrote:
No one has ever asked me to inspect the hook and string when the trick was over. Not to mention, the hook and string is wet when it comes out of your mouth for so know one wants to touch it anyway!

RNK [/quote]

Good point. Another reason to put it in the mouth, rather than the hand.
Message: Posted by: SimonTheSorcerer (Jul 3, 2019 07:37AM)
First I liked it...but if I think 2min about it and laymen will probably think the same...then...for $99...NOPE!
guess you have to handle the last string quiet carefully or the trick could lose its force of attraction...

I am afraid smart laymen will figure this out quiet quick and even if my guess should be wrong: it COULD work like this!
And unfortunately a reason not to buy it for me. Really wanted to like it.
Message: Posted by: RNK (Jul 3, 2019 08:12AM)
[quote]On Jul 3, 2019, SimonTheSorcerer wrote:
First I liked it...but if I think 2min about it and laymen will probably think the same...then...for $99...NOPE!
guess you have to handle the last string quiet carefully or the trick could lose its force of attraction...

I am afraid smart laymen will figure this out quiet quick and even if my guess should be wrong: it COULD work like this!
And unfortunately a reason not to buy it for me. Really wanted to like it. [/quote]

A lot of times we as magicians "think" layman may think as we do but I find that this not the case for Hook. The final reveal when the hook comes out of your mouth looks very convincing. I will say that every time I have performed this the reactions I receive are gasps and disbelief that I would try a stunt so crazy. After the effect was over no one has ever questioned the last reveal when the hook comes out of your mouth. Hook is a definite on the edge of your seat effect. I will say that after I received the effect I to thought the same as SimonTheSorcerer did and was very skeptical and hesitant to perform it. So I emailed Eric about my concerns and Eric told me to just try it out for myself and see what happens. I am so glad I did because it's a definite fooler that immediately grabs and keeps the attention of your audience until the end! You can "feel" the tension in the air from the audience, it's really so cool.

I have no game or advantage in promoting this and actually I was pretty upset that Eric sold the rights to Lost Art and they started selling this for $99.00 (BTW, I paid the full amount). Lost Art really should sell this for more, not because what you receive is costly but because of the intense moments the effect creates within your audience during the whole routine. Majority of the time the participant cringes and squirms when they are trying to decide what string to pull. And when they go to pull the string, this is even better, they are so afraid and hesitant to do so! It's really freakin' awesome! Again, there is no advantage for me to promote Hook, I only share my personal experiences with tricks to help other magicians decide if it's for them or not.


Hopefully Lost Art will raise the price to keep this out of the hands of the curious because it truly is a fantastic piece for an audience to experience.


RNK
Message: Posted by: wizard75d (Jul 4, 2019 04:59AM)
Ok so I got Hook this week. This is a great product and I am really excited to try it out. The product was sent to me from LostArt and the customer care was excellent and extremely professional. This works exactly as you see in the demo. 5 strings not attached and one string left at the end attached to the hook. I am using this at the end of a routine where I am in sync (spec as mindreader). I plan to close with hook. I am really curious as to what type of string/ twine that Xavior uses in his demo. someone mentioned previously that the twine that is supplied with the product is rough and coarse (Not a deal breaker though). I would prefer softer string to work with. Anyone have any ideas on the string type? Cheers.
Message: Posted by: brandon90 (Jul 4, 2019 06:07PM)
[quote]On Jul 4, 2019, wizard75d wrote:
Ok so I got Hook this week. This is a great product and I am really excited to try it out. The product was sent to me from LostArt and the customer care was excellent and extremely professional. This works exactly as you see in the demo. 5 strings not attached and one string left at the end attached to the hook. I am using this at the end of a routine where I am in sync (spec as mindreader). I plan to close with hook. I am really curious as to what type of string/ twine that Xavior uses in his demo. someone mentioned previously that the twine that is supplied with the product is rough and coarse (Not a deal breaker though). I would prefer softer string to work with. Anyone have any ideas on the string type? Cheers. [/quote]

I took a trip to a craft store near me and purchased two hemp string alternatives that don't seem to "split" (or shed in my vocabulary) and a roll of yarn that Im going to experiment with.

Just
Message: Posted by: videoman (Jul 4, 2019 06:19PM)
Has anyone tried using any type of fishing line?
Seems like the natural thing to go with a fish hook.
Wouldnít shed or split and should last a long time.
Just surprised no one has specifically said that it would not work if that is the case.
Message: Posted by: brandon90 (Jul 4, 2019 06:58PM)
[quote]On Jul 4, 2019, videoman wrote:
Has anyone tried using any type of fishing line?
Seems like the natural thing to go with a fish hook.
Wouldnít shed or split and should last a long time.
Just surprised no one has specifically said that it would not work if that is the case. [/quote]

that's a great idea, however, when I think about it the fishing line material could interfere with the method...
Message: Posted by: RNK (Jul 4, 2019 07:03PM)
Ok. I'm on break right now and came on here. I literally just performed hook and the reactions are just so good! You do not need other string, the string that comes with it is perfect. Can you use other string? I don't see why not but I am just saying what comes with it works perfect! So why fix something that is not broken? Not sure why some here are so hung up on the string that comes with it...

Ok, back to work....
Message: Posted by: brandon90 (Jul 4, 2019 08:23PM)
[quote]On Jul 4, 2019, RNK wrote:
Ok. I'm on break right now and came on here. I literally just performed hook and the reactions are just so good! You do not need other string, the string that comes with it is perfect. Can you use other string? I don't see why not but I am just saying what comes with it works perfect! So why fix something that is not broken? Not sure why some here are so hung up on the string that comes with it...

Ok, back to work.... [/quote]

The string provided was shedding pieces into my mouth which was very uncomfortable to me but a quick trip to a Michaels and I found alternate hemp cord that gets the job done without the shedding!

Glad it worked out for you - can you enlighten me on your opening? Just curious.
Message: Posted by: RNK (Jul 4, 2019 11:58PM)
I understand what your saying about the cord shredding at the ends. Mind sharing what replacement you found that works better? It would be much appreciated! As far as the opening, I just tell them "ok , now we are going to do something a little crazy, sort if a roulette game but don't worry, the victim is going to be me this time." I ham it up a little bit but not to much. The natural of the effect is so strong, for me, I find a little less comedy and a drop more of serious is working well. Also, I feel this effect is one that doesn't need much of an intro, judging by my performances so far with this.
Message: Posted by: slyhand (Jul 5, 2019 09:34AM)
Can anyone tell me the odds of the hook being pulled with 4 trys? It's not one in 5. The first pull is 20% chance. The next one is 25%. The next 33% and so on. How does one figure what the chance would be overall?
BTW, I know there is no chance of it if done correctly. Just wondering if you were doing it for real.
Message: Posted by: brandon90 (Jul 5, 2019 11:04AM)
[quote]On Jul 4, 2019, RNK wrote:
I understand what your saying about the cord shredding at the ends. Mind sharing what replacement you found that works better? It would be much appreciated! As far as the opening, I just tell them "ok , now we are going to do something a little crazy, sort if a roulette game but don't worry, the victim is going to be me this time." I ham it up a little bit but not to much. The natural of the effect is so strong, for me, I find a little less comedy and a drop more of serious is working well. Also, I feel this effect is one that doesn't need much of an intro, judging by my performances so far with this. [/quote]

Here is a link for the thread:
https://www.michaels.com/bead-landing-hemp-cord-spool-white-20-lb/10347046.html

it works so much better in my opinion.
Message: Posted by: RNK (Jul 5, 2019 11:36AM)
Great, thanks so much Brandon90!
Message: Posted by: SimonTheSorcerer (Jul 5, 2019 03:19PM)
[quote]On Jul 5, 2019, slyhand wrote:
Can anyone tell me the odds of the hook being pulled with 4 trys? It's not one in 5. The first pull is 20% chance. The next one is 25%. The next 33% and so on. How does one figure what the chance would be overall?
BTW, I know there is no chance of it if done correctly. Just wondering if you were doing it for real. [/quote]

chances (for one performance alone) are 16,7% that the string with the hook will NOT be pulled...(if you play the game twice in a row the chances will recudes a lot)
Message: Posted by: videoman (Jul 5, 2019 05:34PM)
You know I love ya RNK, but that sure seemed like an awfully fast turnaround from sounding like you were scolding us for wasting our time to even consider the use of an alternate string when the supplied string is "perfect" according to you, to suddenly asking for and happily receiving a link to an alternate string. Makes me think you don't find the original quite so perfect after all.

On a side note, I tried using some monofilament and it worked perfectly. An added bonus is I found it much easier to set up with no unraveling or shedding. I guess a downside is that it likely would not break if needed as the original "probably" would. Not sure that has ever been necessary though.
I still can't vouch for it 100% as the only monofilament I have is pretty thin (what would you expect? I'm a magician not a fisherman :) ) and I would like to try a thicker line just for the sake of appearance. But I'm hopeful that that is what I will end up using.
Message: Posted by: RNK (Jul 5, 2019 06:00PM)
Besides the shredding ends of the string after usage the string that was supplied is perfect as far as the workings. That's what I was trying to get at. Those who have this know that using another string like fishing line would not work or show up well to the audience. That's all...
Message: Posted by: thefliss (Jul 7, 2019 09:26AM)
[quote]On Jul 5, 2019, slyhand wrote:
Can anyone tell me the odds of the hook being pulled with 4 trys? It's not one in 5. The first pull is 20% chance. The next one is 25%. The next 33% and so on. How does one figure what the chance would be overall?
BTW, I know there is no chance of it if done correctly. Just wondering if you were doing it for real. [/quote]

My math might be wrong, but this is how I solve your question:
The total percentage of all outcomes must be 100% or, in decimal notation, 1.
To make sense of this, think of a coin: 50% heads, 50% tails. The sum total of any outcome (either heads or tails when the coin is flipped) is 100%. That is (chance of heads) plus (chance of tails) = 1. So, 50%=0.5, so 0.5+0.5=1

So, in Hook, the chances (if real) would look something like this:

(chance of INCORRECT thread picked) plus (chance of CORRECT thread picked) = 1.

The sum of ALL the possible outcomes should equal 1, just as the sum of all probable outcomes in the coin flip example equal 1.

Rearrange that equation with a little algebra...

(CORRECT thread picked) = 1 - (INCORRECT thread picked).

Ok, so as you said, in the first go, the chance of getting the correct thread is 1/5 or 0.2
Said another way, the chance of picking an incorrect thread the first time is 4/5 or 80%. The chance of pulling the correct thread is, therefore, 1-0.8=0.2 or 20%, but you knew this already...

As the number of choices decreases, the probability the spec picks the CORRECT thread will increase, because there are fewer choices remaining.

Again, as you said: in the second attempt, there is a 1/4 chance of picking correctly (also known as a 3/4 chance of picking incorrectly, or 75%, or 0.75).
In the third, 1/3 correct and 2/3 incorrect. (66% chance of getting the wrong thread)
And the last, 1/2 correct and 1/2 incorrect. (50% chance of either outcome.)

Now, the next part is a little more complicated.

But, first, an example: what's the chance of getting two heads in a row from coin flips (assuming an ideal coin with a 50/50 chance)?
It's the chance of heads AND the chance of heads again. Mathematically solved by multiplying the chance of both desired outcomes= 50% x 50% (or 1/2 x 1/2 or 0.5x0.5) = 25%.
To extend the example, the chances of getting three heads in a row is 0.5x0.5x0.5=0.125 or 12.5%.
(Aside: the chance of A LEAST ONE TAILS in THREE FLIPS is 1-CHANCE OF HEADS THREE TIMES IN A ROW = 87.5%)

So the chance of NOT picking it correctly EVERY time is the product of all of the chances of not picking it correctly each time.
Here, 80% then 75% then 66.7%, then 50%. This is equal to 0.8 x 0.75 x 0.667 x 0.5 = 0.2 ... or 20%.

The chance of picking correctly AT LEAST ONCE, is, refer back to beginning of this post, 1 - picking the incorrect thread EVERY TIME.

1 - (not getting it the first time x not the second time x not the third x not the fourth)

1- (0.8 x 0.75 x 0.667 x 0.5)= 0.8

So, there's an 80% chance of picking the correct thread at least once by the end of the choices. Which, actually, isn't all that impressive a number, maybe, to a spectator, so maybe you shouldn't mention that? :lol:
Instead, maybe just lie and say the chances are more than 90%, because what spectator is going to do that kind of math on the fly? :goof:
Message: Posted by: SimonTheSorcerer (Jul 7, 2019 10:07AM)
Actually it is a 83,3% chance to pull the string with the hook. Regarding the danger behind it I guess it is pretty impressive.
Message: Posted by: thefliss (Jul 7, 2019 03:43PM)
[quote]On Jul 7, 2019, SimonTheSorcerer wrote:
Actually it is a 83,3% chance to pull the string with the hook. Regarding the danger behind it I guess it is pretty impressive. [/quote]

I showed my work... care to explain where I went wrong?
Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Harry Patter (Jul 7, 2019 04:02PM)
I think there being any chance makes it impressive.
Message: Posted by: SimonTheSorcerer (Jul 7, 2019 04:25PM)
[quote]On Jul 7, 2019, thefliss wrote:
[quote]On Jul 7, 2019, SimonTheSorcerer wrote:
Actually it is a 83,3% chance to pull the string with the hook. Regarding the danger behind it I guess it is pretty impressive. [/quote]

I showed my work... care to explain where I went wrong?
Thanks! [/quote]

Your work is correct! You just rounded the fractions up too much ;)
Message: Posted by: thefliss (Jul 7, 2019 04:46PM)
I donít own Hook, but was wondering if this presentation could work...
Why not do it as a Monte Hall Problem?
It would lack the slow burn build up of doing it one thread at a time, though...
Ask the spec to pick one thread, then yourself pull 3 of the remaining threads to show theyíre ďwrong,Ē then ask the spec if they want to switch their choice to the other remaining thread or keep their initial selection. (Mathematically, it makes sense to switch rather than keeping the initial choice.)
And, boom! Theyíre wrong. But still exciting! Just faster.
Can this work? (And could you use different color threads?)
Message: Posted by: slyhand (Jul 8, 2019 07:07AM)
Thank you both for answering my question.
Your presentation might work if one could talk with a hook in their mouth. :bigsmile:
Message: Posted by: wizard75d (Jul 8, 2019 07:52AM)
I went for a cotton thread in the end. 3 Euro in a local hardware store. Its softer without any bits coming off. Looks very like the thread Xavior uses. I feel it is a good replacement for the thread supplied.
Message: Posted by: videoman (Jul 8, 2019 12:06PM)
[quote]On Jul 5, 2019, RNK wrote:
Those who have this know that using another string like fishing line would not work or show up well to the audience. That's all... [/quote]

Just a quick update...after some testing I have found that the fishing line does work perfectly fine, doesn't shed or unravel, is waterproof (saliva proof?), shows up well when performing close up, is very logical, and is way, way easier to set up.
I'm puzzled as to why one would assume that it would not work without having first tried it?

I realize the type of string is a personal preference and if you are performing this on a stage you would probably want to use a very visible type of string, but personally I'm not doing this on a stage. And yes, I do have this prop. Perhaps I didn't make that clear earlier.

But here's my question...I'm thinking of flagging the ends of each string with a color or number. For one thing I think this may give me more presentational options such as they could choose a favorite color or number; or explain that I have a lucky number; or create a presentation along the lines of the Monte Hall idea previously posted, etc. Lots of possibilities.
As an additional bonus, it might also add some logic as to why I display the strings the way I do in the beginning.

Anyway, just curious if anyone has done this or explored this option?
Message: Posted by: RNK (Jul 8, 2019 01:01PM)
Interesting, I never thought to use fishing line (even in close up situation) because it still would not look as good as the string and I just wouldn't trust the thin nature of the string to be 100% fail proof. But as always I could be wrong! Putting color tabs would definitely help but I think even at close up the clear nature of fishing line would not be as impressive as string. But that's just me.
Message: Posted by: videoman (Jul 9, 2019 11:18AM)
Yeah, it's a personal preference and I'm not 100% sold on the fishing line either.
But this isn't a case of trying to fix something that isn't broken.

I just like to experiment and ponder various options and once in a while you stumble onto something cool.
Message: Posted by: Yannou (Jul 10, 2019 03:01AM)
Question: what would happen if you get a spectator who thinks it's funny to grab all threads at once and pull them?
Message: Posted by: drjohn (Jul 10, 2019 03:59AM)
Threads in mouth at start?.... like John Allenís trick with his mouth shut
Then the removal of the last thread shows the hook for the first time..... youíve been silent upto this point
But you say Ďdamn, bloody glad you chose those four... this would have hurt a lot itherwiseí

Just a thought!
Message: Posted by: gibby357 (Jul 10, 2019 10:43AM)
[quote]On Jul 10, 2019, Yannou wrote:
Question: what would happen if you get a spectator who thinks it's funny to grab all threads at once and pull them? [/quote]


I think this person might be asking if all 5 strings were pulled! What would happen then? Yikes!



Leo
Message: Posted by: RNK (Jul 10, 2019 11:24AM)
Then you would have one left with a hook on it.
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Jul 10, 2019 12:11PM)
[quote]On Jul 10, 2019, RNK wrote:
Then you would have one left with a hook on it. [/quote]

Wouldn't that then make the trick fail? As in, if they took hold of all the strings simultaneously and yanked them but somehow the hook is still in your mouth, you're not injured, and when removing the hook there's still a string attached to it?
Message: Posted by: videoman (Jul 10, 2019 12:39PM)
[quote]On Jul 10, 2019, RNK wrote:
Then you would have one left with a hook on it. [/quote]

I don't understand this comment.
If they yank all the strings then how do you end up with one left?

The answer to the poster's question is that you simply don't allow them to pull all of the strings at once.
There are ways of making sure they can't if you suspect that they may try to but with a little audience management I don't anticipate this ever being an issue.
Message: Posted by: RNK (Jul 10, 2019 12:47PM)
[quote]On Jul 10, 2019, videoman wrote:
[quote]On Jul 10, 2019, RNK wrote:
Then you would have one left with a hook on it. [/quote]

I don't understand this comment.
If they yank all the strings then how do you end up with one left?

The answer to the poster's question is that you simply don't allow them to pull all of the strings at once.
There are ways of making sure they can't if you suspect that they may try to but with a little audience management I don't anticipate this ever being an issue. [/quote]


Ok, I'm starting to wonder if some of these people even have the trick. If you have the trick you would have understood my comment because there are six strings to start, so if you pull five strings there's one left.
Message: Posted by: RNK (Jul 10, 2019 12:51PM)
My response was to Leo's post when he said if you pull all five strings, well since you start with six then obviously there will be one left with a hook on it.
Message: Posted by: indomagic (Jul 12, 2019 01:09AM)
If at the beginning you could not show only 1 thread attached to the hook and the others are not, than I do not feel any mystery here. Sorry this is my personal opinion.
Message: Posted by: tophatter (Jul 12, 2019 01:19AM)
I just ordered it looking foward !
Message: Posted by: RNK (Jul 12, 2019 05:07AM)
[quote]On Jul 12, 2019, indomagic wrote:
If at the beginning you could not show only 1 thread attached to the hook and the others are not, than I do not feel any mystery here. Sorry this is my personal opinion. [/quote]

Understand and I thought the same thing until I actually performed it and experienced the crazy reactions! I can tell you from personal experience in real performances that it does not dampen the effect in any way by not showing one string attached first.
Message: Posted by: RNK (Jul 12, 2019 08:48AM)
Again, just sharing MY experiences. And I have said that maybe it's not others but I am here to share MY experiences. Yes, I added Hook immediately to my set and those who own can attest that it's absolutely possible to do so because of the workings. Funny, how you are actually very defensive in your comments, LOL. Yes, my friends and family would absolutely have told me if they knew or figured out the method, hence the reason I show them first and the reason I decided to include Hook in my performances for the right audiences. Your attempt to discredit what I say is amusing. I think someone else has the ego problem, lol....
Message: Posted by: MagicMan1957 (Jul 12, 2019 12:58PM)
To my eye it looks just like Morgan Strebler's Razor's Edge just with a hook not a razor blade.

Is the set up the same?
Message: Posted by: MR Effecto (Jul 12, 2019 03:55PM)
Doing this on the strip in Vegas . Canít wait.
Message: Posted by: MagicBrent (Jul 12, 2019 08:07PM)
Hey guys I thought of another ďsellĒ for this effect. I have a fissures tongue which is a painless medical condition where I can press my tongue with teeth and slits will appear. Check it out on google images as you may have this ability too. Anyways if you read a previous thread by me I mentioned slugging an airplane tiny bottle of vodka (water) and slapping my face to nonverbally persuade spec that this is the real deal.after having given them instructions. I donít know that this tongue thing is well known so showing specs that Iíve had a lot of experience with this (then showing fissures) nonverbally implies Iíve had some mistakes, therefore affirming the real danger. I havenít put this into practice but was inspired by idea when scripting and wanted to share.
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Jul 13, 2019 02:31AM)
Haha! That sounds really convincing! You might warn them beforehand "Pull one string at a time. Don't pull all the strings, like some people have done, ok?" And then show your tongue, non-verbally explaining why they shouldn't pull all the strings, cause... look what happened then. Would create a lot of extra tension I'd say :lol:
Message: Posted by: MagicBrent (Jul 13, 2019 10:42AM)
Great idea Unmasked, I was wondering the timing of the line. Thx
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Jul 13, 2019 11:55AM)
:cheers:
Message: Posted by: Harry Patter (Jul 15, 2019 03:54AM)
What is the size of the hook?
I don't have a big mouth so I'm a bit worried about being able to do this safely or at all.
Message: Posted by: Trevo91 (Jul 15, 2019 09:39AM)
[quote]On Jul 12, 2019, MagicMan1957 wrote:
To my eye it looks just like Morgan Strebler's Razor's Edge just with a hook not a razor blade.

Is the set up the same? [/quote]

My thoughts exactly, I'd really like to know how this differs from Razor's Edge apart from using a hook.
Message: Posted by: bosami (Jul 15, 2019 10:50AM)
Is there a FB group for this? I'd like to trade some thoughts and additional ideas I have.
Message: Posted by: bosami (Jul 15, 2019 11:04AM)
[quote]On Jul 15, 2019, Harry Patter wrote:
What is the size of the hook?
I don't have a big mouth so I'm a bit worried about being able to do this safely or at all. [/quote]

It's about the size of a half dollar. If you look at the promo photos on the Lost Art website - you can get a good idea.
Message: Posted by: Nathan Horne (Jul 16, 2019 10:16AM)
Https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8F63T6NPAg

Here is a full performance. Nice video
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Jul 16, 2019 11:55PM)
Thanks for sharing that, Nathan. Thatís very helpful. I have to say that judging by this vid for me personally the initial fase of putting the hook in the mouth is not clean enough. For $ 99 I want that to look better, I would like to be able to show the hook being attached.
It also strikes me that at the climax thereís no big reaction or relief by the other people watching. They donít seem that impressed, unlike with the Rubikís cube effect. It seems only the girl pulling the strings is really involved emotionally.
Message: Posted by: Nathan Horne (Jul 17, 2019 08:46AM)
I'm however still in the market for this or something similar. I love the idea of the hook though.

I've got an idea to get strong emotions from ALL the spectators - Maybe the magician can hold a fishing/hunting knife in their hand and threaten to stab the spectators if he gets injured by the hook? ;-)
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Jul 17, 2019 08:55AM)
Haha! Thatís WILD! Please make sure you get someone to capture that on video and share it with us! I still like the idea of this as well, the dramatic premise is great and itís very different visually.
Message: Posted by: trickyat86 (Jul 17, 2019 09:45AM)
[quote]On Jul 17, 2019, The Unmasked Magician wrote:
Thanks for sharing that, Nathan. Thatís very helpful. I have to say that judging by this vid for me personally the initial fase of putting the hook in the mouth is not clean enough. For $ 99 I want that to look better, I would like to be able to show the hook being attached.
It also strikes me that at the climax thereís no big reaction or relief by the other people watching. They donít seem that impressed, unlike with the Rubikís cube effect. It seems only the girl pulling the strings is really involved emotionally. [/quote]

Regarding the spectators not reacting in the video, they were all too busy recording the effect on their phones, instead of watching it in the moment.
Message: Posted by: reignofsound (Jul 17, 2019 02:36PM)
Really want to get this....BUT... you can clearly see that nothing is attached to the hook when it goes into the mouth.
Does this fly by?
I think the people who I perform for would think that straight away.
Does it look fair live?
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Jul 17, 2019 02:51PM)
[quote]On Jul 17, 2019, reignofsound wrote:
Really want to get this....BUT... you can clearly see that nothing is attached to the hook when it goes into the mouth.
Does this fly by?
I think the people who I perform for would think that straight away.
Does it look fair live? [/quote]

In the moment, I don't think you would have any problem at all. When people go home and if they bother to think about the trick, it is most definitely a point where they can easily draw the correct conclusion for the method. Does this matter for performers whom gig and likely would never see their spectators again? Probably not since for that scenario you have other effects (hopefully) to bolster your performance as a whole and this and all other Russian roulette style routines the payoff is really to just get the reactions in the moment.

You basically have to decide, entertain in the moment or truly try to fool a person. The two can often go hand in hand but in many other ways and situations can be separate from each other. So this is more of a philosophical debate rather than if this release is good or not. I like this release personally so I'm not poo poo'ing it.
Message: Posted by: dman11 (Jul 17, 2019 02:55PM)
[quote]On Jul 17, 2019, reignofsound wrote:
Really want to get this....BUT... you can clearly see that nothing is attached to the hook when it goes into the mouth.
Does this fly by?
I think the people who I perform for would think that straight away.
Does it look fair live? [/quote]

String is attached from the very beginning and when it enters the mouth
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Jul 17, 2019 03:01PM)
[quote]On Jul 17, 2019, dman11 wrote:
[quote]On Jul 17, 2019, reignofsound wrote:
Really want to get this....BUT... you can clearly see that nothing is attached to the hook when it goes into the mouth.
Does this fly by?
I think the people who I perform for would think that straight away.
Does it look fair live? [/quote]

String is attached from the very beginning and when it enters the mouth [/quote]

Kind of attached. It's assumed attached since that's the part you are pinching and effectively hiding from view. It does appear to be attached clearly in the end though. From what I understand, when you bring it out, you bring out the hook and strings already set up ready to go and be placed in your mouth. That's the part that some people have apprehensions about. It's a point that a person can reasonably backtrack to the method if they were to think about it.
Message: Posted by: dman11 (Jul 17, 2019 03:13PM)
[quote]On Jul 17, 2019, kissdadookie wrote:
[quote]On Jul 17, 2019, dman11 wrote:
[quote]On Jul 17, 2019, reignofsound wrote:
Really want to get this....BUT... you can clearly see that nothing is attached to the hook when it goes into the mouth.
Does this fly by?
I think the people who I perform for would think that straight away.
Does it look fair live? [/quote]

String is attached from the very beginning and when it enters the mouth [/quote]

Kind of attached. It's assumed attached since that's the part you are pinching and effectively hiding from view. . [/quote]

Not kind of, not assumed..it IS attached.
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Jul 17, 2019 03:23PM)
[quote]On Jul 17, 2019, dman11 wrote:
[quote]On Jul 17, 2019, kissdadookie wrote:
[quote]On Jul 17, 2019, dman11 wrote:
[quote]On Jul 17, 2019, reignofsound wrote:
Really want to get this....BUT... you can clearly see that nothing is attached to the hook when it goes into the mouth.
Does this fly by?
I think the people who I perform for would think that straight away.
Does it look fair live? [/quote]

String is attached from the very beginning and when it enters the mouth [/quote]

Kind of attached. It's assumed attached since that's the part you are pinching and effectively hiding from view. . [/quote]

Not kind of, not assumed..it IS attached. [/quote]

Then explain why in all the videos of this performed the effect never starts off with ONE SINGLE string attached to the hook and instead always brought out with all the other strings pinched at the point where the string attaches to hook? That's not a clear demonstration of ONE string attached with several other loose threads. The only time I've seen the string clearly attached to the hook is on the reveal in the end.
Message: Posted by: videoman (Jul 17, 2019 03:24PM)
If you could get a hold of a similar hook it would be easy to work out a switch either before or after, at least when performing in a parlor situation.
Not saying that this is necessary by any means just pointing out that it would be easy to do for any who might be concerned.
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Jul 17, 2019 03:26PM)
Correction, Mike's video, it just looks like all the strings are attached to the hook when he dangles the hook from the strings. So that's not a great display in the beginning either. I actually like how Ekaterina performed it better (at least with that initial display, one can argue that they don't know which string is attached as opposed to dangling the hook in the beginning which just looks like they are all attached to the hook).

For reference as to why some potential customers of this are asking the questions of how cleanly can you show the string tied to the hook, etc.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqBOd5ONjek

Bill does a great job performing there but I'm going to assume that he's performing for a friend/family and she's very blegh about it as one can see from the reaction. It's not the fault of the trick it's not the fault of the performance, the reality is that a lot of amateurs and hobbyists are performing material for friends and family the majority of the time and this is a concern when that's the demographic you're performing for which makes trying to make things hard to or impossible to backtrack a requirement in the material they choose to use. If you assume that there's not going to be people you perform for trying to figure out the method, then you're only tricking yourself at that point. It may not be a concern for many performers but it's a concern for a good number of them. It is what it is, and that's why these questions are important to them and why they are being asked.
Message: Posted by: bosami (Jul 18, 2019 01:27PM)
[quote]On Jul 17, 2019, videoman wrote:
If you could get a hold of a similar hook it would be easy to work out a switch either before or after, at least when performing in a parlor situation.
Not saying that this is necessary by any means just pointing out that it would be easy to do for any who might be concerned. [/quote]

I was thinking this same thing as well, in regards to a switch. I personally, would prefer not to go down that road.

I will say that I did add a slight subtlety to my setup in order to 'sell' the idea that there is one string knotted to the hook. This is useful as you pull the hook out of your mouth.

The other thing I don't know that people here are picking up on: In the beginning, the spectator has no idea what you are going to do. You have a hook and several lengths of twine. You give the instructions / rules (1. choose only one string at a time and 2. pull very hard) and ONLY then do you say, "I'm now going to put the hook in my mouth." Which you then do - immediately. I would never explain what I am going to do, and then delay putting the hook in my mouth. That in itself should be a moment that takes the spectator by surprise. The spectator can see the twine and hook, and, at this point anyway, accepts that you say one of the strings is knotted to it. The fact you put the hook in your mouth should not be done casually. It's a big deal to have a three pronged hook in your mouth, no matter what. In successful performances - this is what makes the effect great. Even if afterwards, they backtrack to try and figure how it is done, if you sell the premise, you will succeed in getting reactions.

Another note: If you're a magician and you perform regularly for family, I don't think this is going to be as impacting as with strangers. Your family knows you aren't going to seriously put yourself in harm's way. They anticipate being fooled/entertained, not that you are really pulling a stunt.
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Jul 18, 2019 03:47PM)
Good points, I like your way of thinking about this effect.
Message: Posted by: miltos (Jul 25, 2019 11:04AM)
Can we find this somewhere in Europe?
Message: Posted by: slyhand (Jul 27, 2019 08:18AM)
Always read the instructions before trying out new tricks.
Message: Posted by: o2b2b2 (Jul 27, 2019 08:35AM)
OMG Slyhand! How did you do that? I was just getting ready to work with it, now youíve got me scared to try it.
Message: Posted by: slyhand (Jul 27, 2019 09:23AM)
Sorry everyone. I just thought it would funny. It's Photoshopped. I really didn't think anyone would think I actually did that to myself.
Message: Posted by: o2b2b2 (Jul 27, 2019 02:23PM)
Yeah, I was just messing with you, too.
Message: Posted by: tophatter (Jul 31, 2019 01:14AM)
That was funny !! anyone having a problem putting the string on the ring real difficult for me my thumb is hurting ! am I the only one with this issue ?
Thanks,
Tophatter
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Jul 31, 2019 10:02AM)
[quote]On Jul 31, 2019, tophatter wrote:
That was funny !! anyone having a problem putting the string on the ring real difficult for me my thumb is hurting ! am I the only one with this issue ?
Thanks,
Tophatter [/quote]
You can use a coin or end of a paper clip.
Message: Posted by: RNK (Jul 31, 2019 10:52AM)
Credit card works well...
Message: Posted by: tophatter (Jul 31, 2019 12:29PM)
Oh wow credit card will try thanks !
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Jul 31, 2019 01:25PM)
[quote]On Jul 31, 2019, RNK wrote:
Credit card works well... [/quote]
Even better, great tip.
Message: Posted by: RNK (Jul 31, 2019 02:23PM)
[quote]On Jul 31, 2019, Blindside785 wrote:
[quote]On Jul 31, 2019, RNK wrote:
Credit card works well... [/quote]
Even better, great tip. [/quote]

Thanks Blindsided. It's nice to see this thread actually talk about the effect and ideas rather than the useless nonsense.
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Jul 31, 2019 04:38PM)
Itís a fantastic trick. I used it last night in a parlor show for about 65ish people. It got people tense in all the right ways.
Message: Posted by: Aaron Smith Magic (Aug 11, 2019 11:20AM)
He's not wrong. ^ It got great reactions!
Message: Posted by: MR Effecto (Aug 11, 2019 05:46PM)
Two more weeks and all be in Vegas. Thus will be one of the effects I will do.
Message: Posted by: Paul V (Aug 18, 2019 12:18PM)
I donít know if this has already been asked but Iím curious to know what the size of the hook is? Iíd want to make sure Iím capable of placing the hook inside my mouth before purchasing.

Thanks,
Paul
Message: Posted by: gerryc (Sep 30, 2019 11:14AM)
Does your dental structure matter? I mean do you have to have intact molars ?
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Sep 30, 2019 11:50AM)
You will need to be able to lightly bite down and keep the arm of hook in place centered in your mouth between your teeth. So molars arenít needed.
Message: Posted by: trickyat86 (Oct 18, 2019 12:22PM)
For people that have been using this for awhile, how are setting up the prop? I've been practicing this for awhile now, and have been using a letter opener to help with the prep work (sorry for being vague/cryptic, trying not to expose the method), just wondering if anyone has a better way to prep.
Message: Posted by: dave_matkin (Oct 18, 2019 12:53PM)
[quote]On Jul 31, 2019, RNK wrote:
[quote]On Jul 31, 2019, Blindside785 wrote:
[quote]On Jul 31, 2019, RNK wrote:
Credit card works well... [/quote]
Even better, great tip. [/quote]

Thanks Blindsided. It's nice to see this thread actually talk about the effect and ideas rather than the useless nonsense. [/quote]

RNK ... COME ON ... useless nonsense on the Magic Cafť... NEVER!!!! I don't believe it!
Message: Posted by: lands10 (Nov 12, 2019 06:11PM)
For those who are struggling to get the ring loaded, I found that a circular spark plug gaping tool works great. It is like a small circular inclined ramp. If you start at its lowest gap (point) and rotate it around the ring will open up easily. What is also nice is that you can rest the gaping tool on edge and it will hold the ring open for you to thread the strings. The tool is typically designed as a key fob so you can place it on a key ring as well.
Message: Posted by: Circuit_Breaker (Nov 13, 2019 09:37AM)
This was a great effect for Halloween performances. More intense than the razor in hand in my opinion.
Message: Posted by: RNK (Nov 13, 2019 09:57AM)
[quote]On Nov 13, 2019, Circuit_Breaker wrote:
This was a great effect for Halloween performances. More intense than the razor in hand in my opinion. [/quote]

Even if it's not performed during Halloween it's still an awesome effect! I use it all the time and it just captures the audiences attention with suspense and anxiety, lol!


RNK
Message: Posted by: Obviously (Nov 13, 2019 12:13PM)
Does anyone perform this as a MAGIC effect?
It offers some excellent entertainment
- but, I'm not sure what effect is being created in the audience mind.
Message: Posted by: reignofsound (Nov 13, 2019 03:14PM)
This gets great reactions!
On a couple of occasions the string has been almost caught within its self.
Scary moment indeed.
Message: Posted by: Sideshow Rod (Nov 13, 2019 06:05PM)
Great effect. Missing the links to live performances though. For the money the explanation is thin. Lack of live performances and no false counts for the strings. Not so impressed with lost arts production for the money but full marks to Eric Ross for a fun, pack small, high attention grabbing effect. Ideal for my style.
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Nov 14, 2019 07:58AM)
Why would there be false counts? There's no need to false count the threads here - you're thinking like a magician not a laymen.
Message: Posted by: MR Effecto (Nov 14, 2019 10:22AM)
Fishing maybe???
Message: Posted by: dave_matkin (Nov 14, 2019 10:47AM)
[quote]On Nov 14, 2019, MR Effecto wrote:
Fishing maybe??? [/quote]

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Message: Posted by: RNK (Nov 14, 2019 11:44AM)
[quote]On Nov 13, 2019, Sideshow Rod wrote:
Great effect. Missing the links to live performances though. For the money the explanation is thin. Lack of live performances and no false counts for the strings. Not so impressed with lost arts production for the money but full marks to Eric Ross for a fun, pack small, high attention grabbing effect. Ideal for my style. [/quote]


For an effect such as Hook, you really shouldn't need a lengthy explanation. It's really pretty clear how to do it and there's not many ways to present something when you can't talk anyway while performing it. But I do agree that Hook is a super high attention getter that builds major suspense!
Message: Posted by: dave_matkin (Nov 14, 2019 12:17PM)
Would love to get this and show it to the kids I work with but the management would have a fit if I tried it ... they did when I suggested knife throwing for PE! :)
Message: Posted by: Rook (Nov 14, 2019 04:16PM)
Love this and have been performing it to a much better reaction than I had anticipated. I was, at first, concerned that the "end result" doesn't quite resemble that which is seen in the advertisement, but in performance, no one has seemed to care. My only quibble is that I use this as a close up bit for walk-around and it takes me a significant time to reset and it isn't exactly something I can do subtly. As such, it's one of those "I'll do it once for an especially deserving group, then hope I get a chance to reset later for someone else."
Message: Posted by: Thomas Walter (Nov 14, 2019 04:44PM)
If you absolutely must think like a magician and "complicate" the routine with a s****h etc. you might try the following:

(This is what the audience sees, and those of you who have the trick, will probaby understand what's really going on method wise.)

You show a string that really IS knotted to the hook, (in this case, to the ring.)
You hand it out to a person and warning him/her of the shapness.

Everybody is now looking at the person with the hook and when the spectators turn their attention back to you, they now are aware that you meanwhile have picked up and now can be seen holding, say, four strings, held together in the right hand and a single string in the left.(But we in the know, we know what really is going on in the right hand, ok?)

(This "caught in the middle of the act" is just a small psychological trick to plant the thought and idea of the "loose strings". It is meant to look like you were in the middle of adding strings, ONE AT THE TIME to the right hand).

Now, you ask for the string and hook, and you now realise that you must put down the string in the left hand, to be able to reach for the string and hook from the spectator. You now do that.(Put aside the loose string in the left hand and take the hook and string frm tje spectator.

The left hand with the hook and string, held between thumb and first finger at the point were the string are knotted.
Hook (pointing up, string hanging down) with its string is now moved towards the right hand with its our "loose" strings.
You are now, the audience beleve, adding the tied hook and string to the four loose strings in this right hand.
It is alright to fumble a little before the hook is visible at he top of the hand, thumb side, because you must be careful! It is sharp!! Right?
So. You can now say that there are four loose strings and one, the fifth, is knotted to the hook.
And as an afterthought, you suddenly seem to make a little change when you say something like:
"Ehh, I think we just use you three people to this game..." And therefore you remove ONE string (single, loose, wink, wink!!)

And now you go on with the trick as usual...

As I said before, you who have this trick will understand, it is not that hard to read between the lines.

Some of you will surely think that this is to complicate things. Maybe so, that is fine, but I have actually tried this several times and it not only flies by, but, in my humble opinion, has added that little extra. And it is easy to do.

Oops, almost forgot. But you must have realised that to add my little part to the handling, you must go down to your lokal fishing eqipment store. ;)

And another thing I also added:
Tie ONE knot, about 1 cm from the end of the string(s). At the end that is (are) nearest to the hook/r***. Put the end in the usual place! And WITH THE KNOT ON THE RIGHT SIDE of the, well you know. (Otherwise it may be dangerous when they pull!!!)
It now looks a little more... well you'll understand!

This may be lengthy and somewhat unclear, so I appologise.
As some of you know, my native tounge is not English, and I also will not reveal the method, both of my above added handlings and of course not The Hook itself in this open part of the Cafť'.
Message: Posted by: TheDirectionalist (Nov 15, 2019 01:02AM)
My presentation and full performance: https://youtu.be/OD_7_EqvC6w

Skip to about 1:10 to see when I begin.
Message: Posted by: RodrigoGrando (Nov 15, 2019 03:52AM)
[quote]On Nov 15, 2019, TheDirectionalist wrote:
My presentation and full performance: https://youtu.be/OD_7_EqvC6w

Skip to about 1:10 to see when I begin. [/quote]

Great performance!! I've loved it!
Message: Posted by: Christian de Punto (Nov 15, 2019 08:07AM)
Very good ideas! you point the finger at something, I did not liked too from the first moment.
and again I was angry because of a fake-advertising...

in this moment I have another idea... if you put all strings like "normal" but add next to them another about 3cm piece knotted asymmetrical on the ring. asymmetrical means one end 2cm long, one 1mm... pushed together at the end it will give a good illusion...

[quote]On Nov 14, 2019, Thomas Walter wrote:
If you absolutely must think like a magician and "complicate" the routine with a s****h etc. you might try the following:

(This is what the audience sees, and those of you who have the trick, will probaby understand what's really going on method wise.)

You show a string that really IS knotted to the hook, (in this case, to the ring.)
You hand it out to a person and warning him/her of the shapness.

Everybody is now looking at the person with the hook and when the spectators turn their attention back to you, they now are aware that you meanwhile have picked up and now can be seen holding, say, four strings, held together in the right hand and a single string in the left.(But we in the know, we know what really is going on in the right hand, ok?)

(This "caught in the middle of the act" is just a small psychological trick to plant the thought and idea of the "loose strings". It is meant to look like you were in the middle of adding strings, ONE AT THE TIME to the right hand).

Now, you ask for the string and hook, and you now realise that you must put down the string in the left hand, to be able to reach for the string and hook from the spectator. You now do that.(Put aside the loose string in the left hand and take the hook and string frm tje spectator.

The left hand with the hook and string, held between thumb and first finger at the point were the string are knotted.
Hook (pointing up, string hanging down) with its string is now moved towards the right hand with its our "loose" strings.
You are now, the audience beleve, adding the tied hook and string to the four loose strings in this right hand.
It is alright to fumble a little before the hook is visible at he top of the hand, thumb side, because you must be careful! It is sharp!! Right?
So. You can now say that there are four loose strings and one, the fifth, is knotted to the hook.
And as an afterthought, you suddenly seem to make a little change when you say something like:
"Ehh, I think we just use you three people to this game..." And therefore you remove ONE string (single, loose, wink, wink!!)

And now you go on with the trick as usual...

As I said before, you who have this trick will understand, it is not that hard to read between the lines.

Some of you will surely think that this is to complicate things. Maybe so, that is fine, but I have actually tried this several times and it not only flies by, but, in my humble opinion, has added that little extra. And it is easy to do.

Oops, almost forgot. But you must have realised that to add my little part to the handling, you must go down to your lokal fishing eqipment store. ;)

And another thing I also added:
Tie ONE knot, about 1 cm from the end of the string(s). At the end that is (are) nearest to the hook/r***. Put the end in the usual place! And WITH THE KNOT ON THE RIGHT SIDE of the, well you know. (Otherwise it may be dangerous when they pull!!!)
It now looks a little more... well you'll understand!

This may be lengthy and somewhat unclear, so I appologise.
As some of you know, my native tounge is not English, and I also will not reveal the method, both of my above added handlings and of course not The Hook itself in this open part of the Cafť'. [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Thomas Walter (Nov 15, 2019 08:53AM)
[quote]On Nov 15, 2019, Christian de Punto wrote:
in this moment I have another idea... if you put all strings like "normal" but add next to them another about 3cm piece knotted asymmetrical on the ring. asymmetrical means one end 2cm long, one 1mm... pushed together at the end it will give a good illusion...
[/quote]

Great! I will use this instead of my own "added knots"
Thanks for the tip!
Message: Posted by: Dylan Bryson (Nov 15, 2019 07:54PM)
I'm going to experiment by putting a necklace clasp of some kind between the hook and the ring. That way you could prep four or five additional rings. Switching out with the clasp would be a breeze. That being said I performed it about 7 times at a rather large and long strolling gig a few weeks ago. It was big enough for me to reset the normal way out of sight.
Message: Posted by: Isaiah (Nov 18, 2019 11:02PM)
I am about to purchase this and I have read the threads. I see some of you are worried as to why you cant show all of the threads individually. Well, why do you need to? I plan on tell them that one of these strings is attached to this hook, but I don't want them to know which one, so there in itself gives you a reason not to show the threads individually. At the end you can simply dangle the thread with the hook. Remember this is a STUNT not magic. They are not looking for a magic thread, or magic hook. They are thinking "this guy is nuts". Stop thinking like a magician.
Message: Posted by: RNK (Nov 19, 2019 06:31AM)
[quote]On Nov 18, 2019, Isaiah wrote:
I am about to purchase this and I have read the threads. I see some of you are worried as to why you cant show all of the threads individually. Well, why do you need to? I plan on tell them that one of these strings is attached to this hook, but I don't want them to know which one, so there in itself gives you a reason not to show the threads individually. At the end you can simply dangle the thread with the hook. Remember this is a STUNT not magic. They are not looking for a magic thread, or magic hook. They are thinking "this guy is nuts". Stop thinking like a magician. [/quote]

Exactly. Not showing all the strings individually absolutely does not diminish the reactions of this.
Message: Posted by: trickyat86 (Nov 19, 2019 03:33PM)
There's zero need to over explain or oversell the props. Just treat them like what they are, a hook and strings.

With how I've been presenting this, I don't display the hook until moments before placing it in my mouth. So for the first half of the routine it is "What is one of the strings tied to?" not "which string is tied to the hook?".

I've structured my routine by asking if the spectator has ever drawn straws for something or seen an aggression free pinata (yes, that's actually a thing). Then I bring out the strings, hiding the hook in my hand. Explain that one of these strings is tried to something, and explain the rules they need to follow. Once the agree to the rules, I display the hook and explain that it's going in my mouth, and it quickly goes in.
Message: Posted by: Arielhamui (Nov 20, 2019 06:25AM)
My first trial yestarday!
I need to make stronger strings but people like it
https://youtu.be/59vnA7ADmro
Message: Posted by: MR Effecto (Nov 20, 2019 10:45AM)
Very nice . I love the reactions this gets. I got a chance a few months back to perform this in Vegas and it was killer. Worth every penny.
Message: Posted by: magicmind (Nov 20, 2019 10:49AM)
[quote]On Nov 14, 2019, Rook wrote:
Love this and have been performing it to a much better reaction than I had anticipated. I was, at first, concerned that the "end result" doesn't quite resemble that which is seen in the advertisement, but in performance, no one has seemed to care. My only quibble is that I use this as a close up bit for walk-around and it takes me a significant time to reset and it isn't exactly something I can do subtly. As such, it's one of those "I'll do it once for an especially deserving group, then hope I get a chance to reset later for someone else." [/quote]

I had that same problem when I did walk around weekly. The solution, buy two. Keep the second one ready for not just a repeat at another group, but a special group that may gain you more gigs. Nothing worse than a long reset effect being used and then find a group of potential great customers and not having your best item available due to a reset.
Message: Posted by: Rook (Nov 20, 2019 11:58AM)
[quote]On Nov 20, 2019, magicmind wrote:
I had that same problem when I did walk around weekly. The solution, buy two. Keep the second one ready for not just a repeat at another group, but a special group that may gain you more gigs. Nothing worse than a long reset effect being used and then find a group of potential great customers and not having your best item available due to a reset. [/quote]

I was just considering much the same thing! Yep, it's a problem when I hit a group and think "Oh...you would have been perfect for this! Um...hey...let me go...uh...hide for about a minute and do nothing at all suspicious and I'll be right back...okay?" A second set is a much better idea!
Message: Posted by: trickyat86 (Dec 4, 2019 04:35PM)
I havenít seen this asked yet, but has anyone found a good replacement string they like? I found some that I might try, but wanted to see what others have tried so far.
Message: Posted by: Rook (Dec 4, 2019 07:43PM)
I switched mine out immediately for this and love it!
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001689Y8Y?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title
Message: Posted by: reignofsound (Dec 5, 2019 09:24AM)
Propdog are selling replacing string.
Picked up a batch 👌🏻
Message: Posted by: Isaiah (Dec 6, 2019 01:48PM)
I bought this and really like the idea/method, but the video instructions are awful. Lets stop trying to make instructional videos that are "hip". In the dark with shadows videos along with blurry upclose shots are awful. Also, in the instructions he says things like " and do this and like this" and the frickin gimmick ins't even in the camera shot. Awful. I wouldn't pass on this trick, but if the creators are reading do yourself a favor and hire a professional camera crew.
Message: Posted by: nukraze (Dec 12, 2019 09:11AM)
I was excited to pick this up given the premise but I'm having an issue with the hook. It's a bit too big to fit comfortably in my mouth. Anyone else have this issue? I've tried contacting the guys at Lost Art Magic but it's been almost a week with no response. Just wondering if I'm on my own here or if anyone else had this issue.
Message: Posted by: MR Effecto (Dec 12, 2019 09:24AM)
Buy a different hook and dull the ends.
Message: Posted by: RNK (Dec 12, 2019 11:06AM)
[quote]On Dec 12, 2019, nukraze wrote:
I was excited to pick this up given the premise but I'm having an issue with the hook. It's a bit too big to fit comfortably in my mouth. Anyone else have this issue? I've tried contacting the guys at Lost Art Magic but it's been almost a week with no response. Just wondering if I'm on my own here or if anyone else had this issue. [/quote]

I did in the beginning. And actually until I got used to it, the first few times a performed it the hook caused me to bleed a minor bit from hitting my gums. It wasn't a bad thing, it turned out to be fantastic because I think it made the whole effect more believable in the audiences eyes judging by their reactions!

So don't worry about it and show a little blood! They will love it!
Message: Posted by: bosami (Dec 12, 2019 01:20PM)
[quote]On Dec 12, 2019, RNK wrote:

So don't worry about it and show a little blood! They will love it! [/quote]

I agree. This Halloween, I purchased some fake blood capsules that you can keep in your mouth and bite down on. Depending on the audience, this is something that can really enhance the spectacle. You can use it before (wipe away a little blood from your mouth with a handkerchief) at this point they don't know what's coming, but you indicate that you're going to repeat an effect for them that you performed earlier. When they see the hook...they'll put it together. Or you can use it during ('You REALLY pulled hard that time!') Or after. ('The cost of doing business..').
Message: Posted by: videoman (Dec 12, 2019 01:39PM)
If it is literally too big they have many sizes of treble hooks, so simply get a smaller one. This may take a couple tries of trial and error but they arenít that expensive.
Message: Posted by: nukraze (Dec 12, 2019 01:49PM)
Thanks to all for the feedback and recommendations. I guess I wasn't sure if it could be replaced with something off the shelf. Will take a look around and see what I can find. Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Rook (Dec 12, 2019 02:14PM)
It can be replaced with an off-the-shelf treble hook, but you'll have to be careful in dulling the tines. I have a fairly small mouth as well and thought that I would have to purchase another hook to replace it, but I've found that with proper placement, it works just fine as-is.
Message: Posted by: reignofsound (Dec 12, 2019 03:05PM)
Agreed on the instructions.
Had to sort of guess how it was attached.
Message: Posted by: sebola (Dec 17, 2019 03:10AM)
Hey Friends,

i had a few handling ideas, I didn't found so far, so maybe they are interesting for anyone?

1. The first idea had with this product is: Why had nobody combined it with different coloured strings and a prediction?
i want to start this effect in 2020 and use different coloured strings, while holding a 4-way-out-envelope in my hands for example.
so, this would be a little extra layer and combines this stunt with magic again. also, we have a second big reaction.
what do you think of this?

2. I thought of taping my tooth for safety from the inner side.
im sure you know these little stickers, made for going under chairs, tabled etc..one side sticky, one side bold textured...also they are available in any sizes.
maybe its a good idea to stick 4 little ones at the innersides of the teeths to have a bit extra-safety(feeling).
what do you think?

:)
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Dec 17, 2019 07:50AM)
I wouldn't want to put a prediction into this. It changes the nature of the effect.
Message: Posted by: RNK (Dec 17, 2019 07:57AM)
[quote]On Dec 17, 2019, WitchDocChris wrote:
I wouldn't want to put a prediction into this. It changes the nature of the effect. [/quote]

Agree. The effect is super strong enough with great suspense. IMO, a prediction would lessen the impact of the suspense emotions in the end.
Message: Posted by: shomemagic (Dec 23, 2019 03:27PM)
Ive read this thread and my question and I assume the answer is 100%...How safe is this?
Message: Posted by: trickyat86 (Dec 23, 2019 03:31PM)
[quote]On Dec 23, 2019, shomemagic wrote:
Ive read this thread and my question and I assume the answer is 100%...How safe is this? [/quote]

In my opinion, 99.5% safe. The .5% risk factor is if you don't follow the instructions or set it up properly.
Message: Posted by: rowdymagi5 (Dec 23, 2019 03:45PM)
Just my opinion...I would not want to pull a string out of someone's mouth. I just think that is repulsive. I saw a Magician pull a card out of his mouth and give the card to the participant....spit dripping off the card...just gross. But to each his own.
Message: Posted by: trickyat86 (Dec 23, 2019 05:07PM)
I agree with your opinion about the people touching items thatís been in someone elseís mouth. Though with this effect, the spectator doesnít necessarily touch that end of the strings. For example, I have the spectator hand me back the string after each one. Besides with the tension this effects builds, they usually donít want to be handling the strings anyways.
Message: Posted by: videoman (Dec 23, 2019 05:38PM)
[quote]On Dec 23, 2019, rowdymagi5 wrote:
Just my opinion...I would not want to pull a string out of someone's mouth. I just think that is repulsive. I saw a Magician pull a card out of his mouth and give the card to the participant....spit dripping off the card...just gross. But to each his own. [/quote]

Really? A 2 foot long string is getting too close to someoneís mouth?
In your imagination are the germs sliding down the string and jumping onto your hand?
Betcha wouldnít touch it with a 10 foot pole either. 🤭

This germaphobe thing is getting so bad that future generations arenít going to want to breathe air thatís already been in someone elseís lungs.
Message: Posted by: rowdymagi5 (Dec 23, 2019 08:29PM)
[quote]On Dec 23, 2019, videoman wrote:
[quote]On Dec 23, 2019, rowdymagi5 wrote:
Just my opinion...I would not want to pull a string out of someone's mouth. I just think that is repulsive. I saw a Magician pull a card out of his mouth and give the card to the participant....spit dripping off the card...just gross. But to each his own. [/quote]

Really? A 2 foot long string is getting too close to someoneís mouth?
In your imagination are the germs sliding down the string and jumping onto your hand?
Betcha wouldnít touch it with a 10 foot pole either. 🤭

This germaphobe thing is getting so bad that future generations arenít going to want to breathe air thatís already been in someone elseís lungs. [/quote]

I'm not a germaphobe, I just prefer not to watch people put things in their mouth and then remove said items as part of their act. My guess is that a good percentage of your audience will probably feel that particular effect is not very classy.
Message: Posted by: BRMagic (Feb 14, 2020 02:28PM)
The effect looks great. I'm curious though, is this hook similar to other hooks sold in tackle shops? Many of which are made of lead or nickel which I understand can be a health concern?
Thanks.
Message: Posted by: Badger (Feb 15, 2020 07:44PM)
I bought this effect about two years ago when it was sold on EricĎs website. I went through a lot of changes and spent a lot of extra money upgrading this. I do want to point out some issues with it for one it is not 99.8 percent safe. If weíre talking percentages I would say that itís about 68% safe. One thing that I would recommend to all of you who use this effect as to get a stainless steel hook. The hook that is provided and various hooks that you would buy for this have lead in them and you can taste it as an aftertaste in your mouth later on. Also plan on cutting your gums with this it will happen. The hook that I replaced I did not bother to file down. I use a stainless steel shark Hook. The string that was provided for my set is different then what is provided today. the new string that is provided makes a huge difference. In a good way. I know a lot of pros who have damaged themselves on this affect in fact if you are friends with any on Facebook and follow them on Instagram they are not shy about posting pictures of the damage that was done. this will take some work to iron out all of the little nuances it took me about a year to get it where I wanted it. If you do decide to perform this effect it is truly a showstopper and itís something that people talk about for a long time it is definitely one of the best investments I have made in a very long time. But it is not for everybody.
Message: Posted by: RNK (Feb 15, 2020 09:14PM)
Hm. I think it's very safe. I never had any issues. My gums did bleed once but I think because of that happening it actually enhanced the effect and reactions. But before performing I load them a little longer than typical and test them all to make sure they're in the right place. Definitely not for everybody, I agree.
Message: Posted by: BRMagic (Feb 15, 2020 10:47PM)
I would be hesitant with the lead hooks. I'll procure a stainless steel instead. But will definitely performthe effect.
Message: Posted by: RNK (Feb 16, 2020 02:09PM)
You would literally have to keep the hook in your mouth while sucking on it continously for a lot longer than the few minutes it's in your mouth during the routine to cause lead to leach from the hook that one would consider lead exposure.
Message: Posted by: videoman (Feb 16, 2020 04:46PM)
[quote]On Feb 16, 2020, RNK wrote:
You would literally have to keep the hook in your mouth while sucking on it continously for a lot longer than the few minutes it's in your mouth during the routine to cause lead to leach from the hook that one would consider lead exposure. [/quote]

I agree. You would have to be performing this constantly all day, every day.
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Feb 17, 2020 07:23AM)
Which would be a really amazing feat in itself. :lol:
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (May 24, 2020 05:44AM)
[quote]On Dec 23, 2019, videoman wrote:

Really? A 2 foot long string is getting too close to someoneís mouth?
In your imagination are the germs sliding down the string and jumping onto your hand?
Betcha wouldnít touch it with a 10 foot pole either. 🤭

This germaphobe thing is getting so bad that future generations arenít going to want to breathe air thatís already been in someone elseís lungs. [/quote]

This comment takes on a whole new meaning!
Message: Posted by: jack_shields (May 24, 2020 03:51PM)
Wow this took an interesting turn...
Message: Posted by: Miraclemakers (Jun 4, 2020 11:34PM)
In my opinion, this one is the most practical "roulette" effect for close up or parlour.
Message: Posted by: MR Effecto (Jun 5, 2020 04:20AM)
[quote]On May 24, 2020, Al Desmond wrote:
[quote]On Dec 23, 2019, videoman wrote:

Really? A 2 foot long string is getting too close to someoneís mouth?
In your imagination are the germs sliding down the string and jumping onto your hand?
Betcha wouldnít touch it with a 10 foot pole either. 🤭

This germaphobe thing is getting so bad that future generations arenít going to want to breathe air thatís already been in someone elseís lungs. [/quote]

This comment takes on a whole new meaning! [/quote] I have to disagree. Less than a year people will be the same as always.