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Topic: Why does everyone sell their bizarre magick?
Message: Posted by: EVILDAN (Jul 6, 2019 06:20AM)
Today is July 6, 2019 and there is an awful lot of bizarre magickfor sale on the Cafťís trick and prop selling site. I notice this trend quite often with magicians dumping what looks to be a majority if not all of their bizarre magick. I was curious as to why this happens. Perhaps some of you that unloaded could shed some light on the subject.

Was it because your significant other found out how much you actually spent?
Maybe you had grand plans for the ultimate bizarre magic show and could find anywhere to perform it?
Maybe you bought it as an investment and now itís time to cash in?

Iím just curious as to why it keeps happening.
Message: Posted by: Joshua J (Jul 6, 2019 08:19AM)
Lots of reasons. But mainly I'm pretty ruthless. I'm not a hoarder or collector of magic props. As is the way with magic from time to time I've had effects where the method wasn't to my taste. But you don't know until you buy. Sometimes the theme just doesn't fit what in mind or suit my main performance situations. I have been buying magic since I was a child and maybe 15 years where I've earned money from performing, though not regularly. I have a handful of polished, high quality effects. From time to time something new may interest me. But more often than not it won't replace my regular pieces. As I've gone on more and more of what I use is me assembling my own effects from a handful of favoured methods. I have some core utility items: pendulums, tarot, cards, a few curios. For example, I have Prof BC cemetery key. It's excellent and relegates me having a desire for another key unless I like the sound of the routine.

Books, on the other hand, I will hoard.
Message: Posted by: Winks (Jul 6, 2019 09:03AM)
I'm not a worker, just a lurker and sometimes collector. So, when I look at all the stuff I have, I sometimes think that those funds could be put to better use and up for sale that stuff goes. Now, like JoshuaJ, I hoard books and often find that if I were a worker, what is in those books will better suit my purposes. I recently sold off a goodly share of my "collection" recently. It was quality stuff and I didn't lose money and I put it to other purposes. But, I wasn't using it.
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Jul 6, 2019 10:47AM)
Sometimes, I want to own some of the items to understand how they work and see what could be applied to something I want to do someday. An example is to modify the prop and story line to be more local for me. Unfortunately, as with all magic, not everything works. Some of the props I just want to display because they look cool. The real challenge is when there is one item I want to acquire, but the seller wants to sell the lot and I have to buy the entire lot to get the one item in hopes to sell the rest later on and either acquire wanted item almost free or very reduced price. Eventually the duplicates get sold off. I may not qualify to give my opinion on this thread so I must add that I am reluctant to sell much because once the money is spent you end up with nothing; and unlike many who list 'no trades', I had much rather trade for something else.

As for Evil Dan's question: "Was it because your significant other found out how much you actually spent?" The answer is that they never can know because that would probably be my last living day on earth. lol. My greatest fear is when I die she will sell my stuff for what she thinks I paid for it. She usually never asks and I usually never offer to tell.

This is an interesting thread and I have enjoyed and will continue enjoying reading the posts on it.
Message: Posted by: Joshua J (Jul 6, 2019 11:37AM)
As time has gone on I've probably ended up with less to sell as not jumped on the band wagon and bought something each time a dealer has brought out something new. I know particular creators that I will get a quality prop from and I have a pretty good idea of what type of effects suit me and what I can and can't pull off well. So I don't waste as much money as I maybe once did.

There are certainly little blips of people become interested in bizarre and then moving on and selling up. Going back a way but Derren Brown seance left a lot of people wanting to recreate seance effects. But few of these people will have had the skills, the people management, the care of participants, the personality to effectively do this. People making shifts to a style that just doesn't suit them. But I've profited much by this picking things up cheap so not complaining.
Message: Posted by: ringmaster (Jul 6, 2019 11:51AM)
Maybe the need the money.
Message: Posted by: EVILDAN (Jul 6, 2019 07:06PM)
Thanks for the responses. I understood the hobbyist buying everything that comes out because itís usually not a big investment. But somehow bizarre magic usually starts in the hundreds. Me, I donít buy much bizarre magick because I donít like a lot of it. Some things I donít even understand what the effect is. All I know is that the possibilities are endless and only limited by your imagination. I have a pretty good imagination. People come to me for ideas all the time. But I at least need a starting point.

I usually craft routines about experiences in my life and go shopping at flea markets, antique stores, and eBay. I try to steer away from cliche bizarre like Lizzie Borden, Jack the Ripper,etc. if I were to go historical or urban legend-ish,Iíd go close to home; The Jersey Devil just to name one.

Thanks again. Keep it evil.
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Jul 6, 2019 09:51PM)
EVILDAN, I totally get your original post, as I too have noticed a surge of posts here selling bizarre props. Usually, those posts are few and far between, but lately there has been a plethora of "spooky" props for sale. And like you, I don't know why.

I know the usual reason why folks sell props, but bizarre magic was always mostly sold to a select group who were more judicious with their purchases, and clung to them more closely. To see them being sold with such abandon is indeed curious. And of course, it probably means nothing, and can be chalked up to chance, and more than one bizarre magic owner who needs some additional income.

Or, it could mean the Apocalypse is anon.
Message: Posted by: Delimbeau (Jul 7, 2019 01:23AM)
Sales seem to go in waves? Probably, on average weíre still following the normal line. But I do note that many electr@nic devices are being offered. Or is that also confirmation bias? :) Cheers, Luc
Message: Posted by: Lo Pan (Jul 7, 2019 02:41AM)
I think it is a combination of things that occurred at once. The years of constant disputes with Rick, Outl4w and between members here wore on the community and then several other let downs made matters worse. There was then, for whatever reasons, an exodus from the Cafť of some of our most knowledgeable and creative friends. I think with the loss of many so inspired voices that there is a bit of a lull currently and with the loss of energy and new ideas people are unloading a bit. Iím in for life and after life so I only sell items I donít feel a deep connection to or if I need to raise money for something different.
Message: Posted by: Joshua J (Jul 7, 2019 03:22AM)
[quote]On Jul 7, 2019, Delimbeau wrote:
Sales seem to go in waves? Probably, on average weíre still following the normal line. But I do note that many electr@nic devices are being offered. Or is that also confirmation bias? :) Cheers, Luc [/quote]

Electronic items have always come up regularly. With most sales going to hobbyist many of these items aren't convenient for taking to perform to mates down the pub. Then the replay value comes in. For hobbyists bizarre magic electronic items often just do one job. So once you've shown your social group it doesn't have much purpose apart from as a collector's piece. People covert them, then realise they aren't really practical and sell to fund the next purchase. A while back I remember a discussion of pocket bizarre. Might resurect it in the crypt.
Message: Posted by: balzar (Jul 7, 2019 06:33AM)
Comparatively new here and reticent about wading in. At the same time, I am hardly a neophyte, and have spent a considerable sum on exactly the kind of effects under discussion.
I think there is a tension, perhaps an inevitable one, between supporting the creators of new effects, and critical assessment of how good these creations really are in practice. This is understandable. In the grand scheme of things our subsection of magic is very small, and we are rightly inclined to be cheerleaders for anyone crafting effects for our chosen niche. They are, in some respects, the lifeblood, or at least the validation, of the whole enterprise. The downside is that we can be pretty uncritical in our praise. There are many effects discussed at length on this site for whom one can find nary a word of criticism. In fact, that is largely the rule. This is compounded by the fact everyone knows the creators of a given effect are right here with us, and will read everything we have to say. It seems churlish to call out an effects shortcomings right in front of them. And yet, in my experience, there are a lot of expensive offerings here that do not really deliver. Hence the secondary market. I am not sure how to square this circle (no pun intended). I suspect we are right to lean towards uncritical endorsement, but it comes at a cost, in more ways than one.
Message: Posted by: Josepher (Jul 7, 2019 09:06AM)
I gotta admit that Dan's post here was the push I needed to register here. I only lurked because I felt there was a lot more knowledge and experience here than I could add to.
Message: Posted by: Al Desmond (Jul 7, 2019 03:54PM)
Maybe age has something to do with it.

I know in my case it does.

Anyone that has known me, from North Jersey in the late 60s, to Texas in the mid 70s and then on to Colorado, they know I have always been both a contributor and a performer in the faternity.

But I am now 66 years old, not as mobile as I once was (health-wise, don't worry, I'm not ready to drop dead, Willy just back off), so I both have expendable income and time on my hands. Living up in the mountains of Colorado, there is a limited amount of venues to work at, and I've paid my dues doing kids shows and snotty parties, I'm not interested in that.

Even though I run a weekly newspaper, I'm really retired. The newspaper gives me something to do with my mind and forces me to get off my rear at least twice a day (getting into the car and driving to and from work).

And I still contribute, you can go to Gemini and see the various "cribs" I've manufactured for some of Vic's wonderful book tests. And I think John Cornelius still sells one of my card tricks through his mail order.

But it is my age. I'm not performing, I don't even have much opportunity to show family and friends, cause there is a limited amount of those people.

So I buy things, play with them, sometimes write scripts for them (which I have given away frequently on the Cafť), and sometimes keep them. And then if I see a new toy I want, I will sell one or more items, most of the time at a financial lost, so I can get the new toy.

In a sense, it really has come full circle. When I was a kid, I always wanted something new, as an old man, it's like being a kid again.

I'm having fun, that's my reason.
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Jul 7, 2019 05:05PM)
[quote]On Jul 7, 2019, Al Desmond wrote:
Maybe age has something to do with it. I'm not ready to drop dead, Willy just back off) [/quote]

Gee Al, don't get me all excited and then drop the bomb that you aren't ready. I have a double occupancy that needs an occupant before I can plant it and thought you might be the one. Oh well, guess it is back to the freezer for her for now.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Jul 7, 2019 06:17PM)
While Dan is here, will he ever start making wallets again?
Message: Posted by: reese (Jul 7, 2019 06:45PM)
I think of Sturgeon's law when pondering the question "why does everyone sell their Bizarre magic?"
Message: Posted by: Lo Pan (Jul 7, 2019 07:36PM)
[quote]On Jul 7, 2019, weepinwil wrote:
[quote]On Jul 7, 2019, Al Desmond wrote:
Maybe age has something to do with it. I'm not ready to drop dead, Willy just back off) [/quote]

Gee Al, don't get me all excited and then drop the bomb that you aren't ready. I have a double occupancy that needs an occupant before I can plant it and thought you might be the one. Oh well, guess it is back to the freezer for her for now. [/quote]

Hold up Willie - what are her dimensions? Iím getting up there in age myself and might be interested.
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Jul 7, 2019 07:46PM)
[quote]On Jul 7, 2019, Lo Pan wrote:
[quote]On Jul 7, 2019, weepinwil wrote:
[quote]On Jul 7, 2019, Al Desmond wrote:
Maybe age has something to do with it. I'm not ready to drop dead, Willy just back off) [/quote]

Gee Al, don't get me all excited and then drop the bomb that you aren't ready. I have a double occupancy that needs an occupant before I can plant it and thought you might be the one. Oh well, guess it is back to the freezer for her for now. [/quote]

Hold up Willie - what are her dimensions? Iím getting up there in age myself and might be interested. [/quote]

She started out 38 24 36 but after recent events is down to 30 21 30. Better hurry up, she is going fast. You do know why dead girls are more fun, don't you?
Message: Posted by: StreetWalkinCheeta (Jul 12, 2019 12:37PM)
Help! Maybe the forum for selling items only opens up to those who have posted ďXĒ amount of times but if not what is the name of that forum? Need my fix, man. :)
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Jul 12, 2019 07:44PM)
StreetWalkinCheeta...when you reach 50 legitimate posts (posts that actually contribute to the thread), you will access to "Let's make a magic deal," which includes several subsections (props, DVDs etc.), along with "The Banquet Room," which is where a lot of more serious topics are discussed with considerably more frankness. Beware however, these areas of the Cafť are highly addictive.
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Jul 12, 2019 07:55PM)
[quote]On Jul 12, 2019, Wizard of Oz wrote:
StreetWalkinCheeta...when you reach 50 legitimate posts (posts that actually contribute to the thread), you will access to "Let's make a magic deal," which includes several subsections (props, DVDs etc.), along with "The Banquet Room," which is where a lot of more serious topics are discussed with considerably more frankness. Beware however, these areas of the Cafť are highly addictive. [/quote]

Yes they are. See my post on addiction in this thread.
Message: Posted by: afinemesh (Jul 12, 2019 09:34PM)
[quote]On Jul 12, 2019, StreetWalkinCheeta wrote:
Help! Maybe the forum for selling items only opens up to those who have posted ďXĒ amount of times but if not what is the name of that forum? Need my fix, man. :) [/quote]

As stated, your first take is correct. You need 50 "meaningful" posts to get into the for sale section.
Message: Posted by: topherhester (Jul 12, 2019 11:23PM)
For me, Iím getting to the point where I rely less on gimmicked props and more on other methods. Iím often doing shows now with a few props. Even bizarre shows. A deck of cards, tarot cards, a notepad, a few small items, a candle. Etc. If every routine had some electronic box or special prop it would seem TOO MUCH like exactly what it is....gimmicked props. I guess our philosophy and theory on magic change as we transition from tricksters to more seasoned performers.

I do still have a few items Iíve had my eye on for years but itís more about the right time. Iím about to thin my herd some.
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Jul 13, 2019 06:28AM)
[quote]On Jul 12, 2019, topherhester wrote:
For me, Iím getting to the point where I rely less on gimmicked props and more on other methods. Iím often doing shows now with a few props. Even bizarre shows. A deck of cards, tarot cards, a notepad, a few small items, a candle. Etc. If every routine had some electronic box or special prop it would seem TOO MUCH like exactly what it is....gimmicked props. I guess our philosophy and theory on magic change as we transition from tricksters to more seasoned performers.

I do still have a few items Iíve had my eye on for years but itís more about the right time. Iím about to thin my herd some. [/quote]

For me the props are more about eye candy for the spectator than gimmicks. An old box, a key, something unusual or fascinating. But now, at my age, it's more about my joy at looking and playing with them than performing with them.
Message: Posted by: DocBenWiz (Jul 17, 2019 11:57PM)
[quote]On Jul 6, 2019, Joshua J wrote:
Lots of reasons. But mainly I'm pretty ruthless. I'm not a hoarder or collector of magic props. As is the way with magic from time to time I've had effects where the method wasn't to my taste. But you don't know until you buy. Sometimes the theme just doesn't fit what in mind or suit my main performance situations. I have been buying magic since I was a child and maybe 15 years where I've earned money from performing, though not regularly. I have a handful of polished, high quality effects. From time to time something new may interest me. But more often than not it won't replace my regular pieces. As I've gone on more and more of what I use is me assembling my own effects from a handful of favoured methods. I have some core utility items: pendulums, tarot, cards, a few curios. For example, I have Prof BC cemetery key. It's excellent and relegates me having a desire for another key unless I like the sound of the routine.

Books, on the other hand, I will hoard. [/quote]

My short response....ditto, ditto, ditto...almost exactly everything stated,....except my few treasure pieces never to be sold include several Prof BC items, Luna full, customized by me package, White Star as I adapted, Fathoms, DITF and a few others items!
Message: Posted by: TomB (Jul 19, 2019 05:29PM)
I am part of a haunt club. I cannot wait until I get 50 posts to see what's there!
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Jul 19, 2019 06:01PM)
[quote]On Jul 19, 2019, TomB wrote:
I am part of a haunt club. I cannot wait until I get 50 posts to see what's there! [/quote]

Sometimes you will be disappointed and sometimes you will be ecstatic. Depends what you are looking for.
Message: Posted by: Josepher (Jul 20, 2019 09:55AM)
You and me both, TomB. I might even clean out some of crypt. I agree that the more experience you gain the less you need.
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Jul 20, 2019 12:28PM)
[quote]On Jul 20, 2019, Josepher wrote:
You and me both, TomB. I might even clean out some of crypt. I agree that the more experience you gain the less you need. [/quote]

Actually, the more you know the dumber you get and the more experience you need.

It is the same in the funeral industry. Got every thing down pat and then ten years later find out you are suppose to make sure they are dead before you embalm them. If I had known that before I had embalmed the night watchman who was sleeping on a gurney it would have been easier to hire another one.
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Jul 20, 2019 04:29PM)
If you believe that bizarre magick is only about buying more props and leaving them on a shelf... maybe you got it wrong somewhere.
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Jul 20, 2019 08:53PM)
[quote]On Jul 20, 2019, The Curator wrote:
If you believe that bizarre magick is only about buying more props and leaving them on a shelf... maybe you got it wrong somewhere. [/quote]

Says the museum curator. Lol
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Jul 22, 2019 08:01AM)
AS I scan the for sale section on several websites, the Cafť' include, there are a lot of magic effects being sold with the description, "Never used", so the trend to buy, not use, and resell is not just the bizarre genre' of magic. How often do we buy an effect to learn how it works and find out it is not for us? Nothing left to do but shelf it or resell it. The advantage of the bizarre props is that they are great to look at and display as well as effective tools of the trade. I hav e some I need to sell and some I wouldn't think about selling, mostly prototypes, artist proofs, and number 1 of limited editions.
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Jul 22, 2019 01:55PM)
[quote]On Jul 22, 2019, weepinwil wrote:
AS I scan the for sale section on several websites, the Cafť' include, there are a lot of magic effects being sold with the description, "Never used", so the trend to buy, not use, and resell is not just the bizarre genre' of magic. How often do we buy an effect to learn how it works and find out it is not for us? Nothing left to do but shelf it or resell it. The advantage of the bizarre props is that they are great to look at and display as well as effective tools of the trade. I hav e some I need to sell and some I wouldn't think about selling, mostly prototypes, artist proofs, and number 1 of limited editions. [/quote]

But I never sell any item from the Surnateum, I use them. :)
And all my "props" are number 1 of limited editions of 1.
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Jul 22, 2019 03:04PM)
[quote]On Jul 22, 2019, The Curator wrote:
[quote]On Jul 22, 2019, weepinwil wrote:
AS I scan the for sale section on several websites, the Cafť' include, there are a lot of magic effects being sold with the description, "Never used", so the trend to buy, not use, and resell is not just the bizarre genre' of magic. How often do we buy an effect to learn how it works and find out it is not for us? Nothing left to do but shelf it or resell it. The advantage of the bizarre props is that they are great to look at and display as well as effective tools of the trade. I hav e some I need to sell and some I wouldn't think about selling, mostly prototypes, artist proofs, and number 1 of limited editions. [/quote]

But I never sell any item from the Surnateum, I use them. :)
And all my "props" are number 1 of limited editions of 1. [/quote]

A lot of mine are #1, artist proof, or prototype also. I would never sell them unless I just had to for some reason. I understand that logic.
Message: Posted by: Tim Dowd (Jul 22, 2019 03:34PM)
It maybe that they had to move to an Atlantic Island for their wifeís health and money is getting tight... so they need to sell their Hobbs Box with bell to pay for an X-Rite ColorChecker Passport Video... luckily thereís one in The for sale section here https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=697136&forum=76

:)
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Jul 22, 2019 06:39PM)
[quote]On Jul 22, 2019, Tim Dowd wrote:
It maybe that they had to move to an Atlantic Island for their wifeís health and money is getting tight... so they need to sell their Hobbs Box with bell to pay for an X-Rite ColorChecker Passport Video... luckily thereís one in The for sale section here https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=697136&forum=76

:) [/quote]

And at a good price, might I add.
Message: Posted by: Josepher (Jul 23, 2019 06:39AM)
Why sell? One reason is you might realize after purchasing the item it just doesn't fit your character.
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Jul 23, 2019 06:45AM)
[quote]On Jul 23, 2019, Josepher wrote:
Why sell? One reason is you might realize after purchasing the item it just doesn't fit your character. [/quote]

Actually, I prefer to trade when possible. You sell it, you spend it, and you have nothing. You trade it, you get it, and you still have something.
Message: Posted by: Josepher (Jul 23, 2019 11:22AM)
Agreed. Trading is best. You probably take a loss when you sell, compared to the new price. With a trade the other item is also discounted.
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Jul 23, 2019 12:31PM)
[quote]On Jul 23, 2019, Josepher wrote:
Agreed. Trading is best. You probably take a loss when you sell, compared to the new price. With a trade the other item is also discounted. [/quote]

But you didn't mention the excitement from getting something exciting. I lost the excitement from getting money a long time ago when I realized it wasn't really mine and I was just the point of transfer. Now a new item to wait for and enjoy; priceless!
Message: Posted by: kcalB (Jul 23, 2019 07:03PM)
Retired from performing, and nobody worthy of the Inheritance.
Watch for an Estate Sale ...you know where.
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Jul 23, 2019 07:06PM)
[quote]On Jul 23, 2019, kcalB wrote:
Retired from performing, and nobody worthy of the Inheritance.
Watch for an Estate Sale ...you know where. [/quote]

We just don't know when.....
Message: Posted by: Philemon Vanderbeck (Jul 23, 2019 08:11PM)
In my will, I specifically state that all my belongings are to be burned (along with my body).

In a way, I AM taking it with me. ;-)
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Jul 23, 2019 08:22PM)
[quote]On Jul 23, 2019, Philemon Vanderbeck wrote:
In my will, I specifically state that all my belongings are to be burned (along with my body).

In a way, I AM taking it with me. ;-) [/quote]

Lol, yes you are.
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Jul 23, 2019 08:27PM)
[quote]On Jul 23, 2019, Philemon Vanderbeck wrote:
In my will, I specifically state that all my belongings are to be burned (along with my body).

In a way, I AM taking it with me. ;-) [/quote]

Lol, yes you are.
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Jul 24, 2019 04:52AM)
[quote]On Jul 23, 2019, weepinwil wrote:
[quote]On Jul 23, 2019, kcalB wrote:
Retired from performing, and nobody worthy of the Inheritance.
Watch for an Estate Sale ...you know where. [/quote]

We just don't know when..... [/quote]

Something that can easily be fixed. :)
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Jul 24, 2019 06:50AM)
[quote]On Jul 23, 2019, Philemon Vanderbeck wrote:
In my will, I specifically state that all my belongings are to be burned (along with my body).

In a way, I AM taking it with me. ;-) [/quote]

But then, how will we contact you after you're gone? Or do you plan to be one of those unsociable haints?
Message: Posted by: Philemon Vanderbeck (Jul 24, 2019 07:27AM)
[quote]On Jul 24, 2019, weepinwil wrote:
[quote]On Jul 23, 2019, Philemon Vanderbeck wrote:
In my will, I specifically state that all my belongings are to be burned (along with my body).

In a way, I AM taking it with me. ;-) [/quote]

But then, how will we contact you after you're gone? Or do you plan to be one of those unsociable haints? [/quote]

I plan on being reincarnated on an entirely different planet. You humans are far too frustrating in your behaviors for me ever think of coming back here.
Message: Posted by: Josepher (Jul 24, 2019 09:18AM)
[quote]
I plan on being reincarnated on an entirely different planet. You humans are far too frustrating in your behaviors for me ever think of coming back here. [/quote]
Besides, the gravity is far too strong here.