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Topic: Brand new here & confused
Message: Posted by: ahimsa42 (Jul 7, 2019 09:23PM)
I just joined this forum because the topic of hypnosis has always both fascinated and scared me. in researching it though, I have come across some fundamental conflicts regarding this subject. I did read both the ground rules and FAQ and my question is regarding the first FAQ:

"1) The hypnotist can make you do things against your will.

Absolutely False. The hypnotist has no powers over you at all, and cannot make you do things against your hard-held beliefs, ethics or morals. All Hypnosis is really self-directed and self-controlled. The hypnotist merely guides you into a hypnotic state, and feeds your mind with care­fully worded suggestions. If you feel uncomfortable with these suggestions, you may reject them at will. Hypnosis is essentially a matter of cooperation between the hypnotist and his subject, not some form of power the hypnotist possesses which will compel the subject to submit to his or her will. In a stage show, remember, people are up there to show off, so the appearance of them doing something "against their will" may seem to be the case, but, in reality, it is NOT the case at all."

i have seen this stated countless times but to me it does not seem address the core of the subject. for example, people made to forget their own name, the number 7, not be able to speak, read words, or talk, not be able to move their limbs or body, people made to not recognize their own child or spouse or people made to not be able to see someone right in front of them. it seems in all these cases that a great deal of involuntary actions are involved and that the subject has no say in the matter of their thoughts or actions. I have even read story's about people being complete skeptics who were put under and said they felt like they had lost all control and had no choice in the matter so had to comply even if they did not want to do so. they even lied to friends & family afterwards saying they were faking it the whole time and were just going along with the show because they were so disturbed & embarrassed that they were unable to resist on any level. then there are also post hypnotic suggestions where people are forced to do things without even being aware of it or why they are doing what they are doing.

to me, the answer in the FAQ does not align in any way with the descriptions in the 2nd paragraph and seem to be describing complete control over the unwilling subjects- hence my confusion. personally, as a major control freak and a very analytical person, the idea of losing one's autonomy by having someone just talk to you is extremely disturbing. I was hoping that the experts here could help shed some light for me on this seemingly contradictory of claim.

thanks in advance.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 8, 2019 10:19AM)
OK here is the expatiation, and what a GREAT question!

First of all what happens in "hypnosis", to use a term we can all just agree upon, is that there is sort of an unofficial agreement. I have said "I will keep you safe, I will not cross certain lines". You have said for this I will allow you to suggest things to me and I will not resist.

Whatever those parameters are set at, and just so the hypnotist does not violate them, then all suggestions are accepted, and therefore NOT against the subjects will.

The subject at ANY time can jump out of the influence. It may not seem it, but they indeed can. The things you are describing are within the parameters the hypnotist set at the start. Different performers have different ideas of how far to go. Just so they UNDERSTAND those, and then by volunteering agree the show works.

The rest is simply window dressing so the show looks like a show.
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Jul 8, 2019 03:15PM)
Yeah, that pretty much covers my understanding of it.
Message: Posted by: ahimsa42 (Jul 8, 2019 08:56PM)
Thanks for such an informative & easy to understand answer Danny. that is pretty much the way I always thought it worked but then I have read about people like the one's I described who claimed they had no choice in the matter and felt like they needed to comply even if they did not wish to. I also always wondered why people are not way more freaked out when they are unable to move or speak or remember under hypnosis as I am certain that I would be if I were unable to control my own actions. could this be because they have unconsciously agreed to accept the suggestions and are not really resisting even though they may think they are?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 8, 2019 09:29PM)
Exactly. Had they been asked to violate some moral code they would simply say no.

The lack of control only exists within that framework.
Message: Posted by: ahimsa42 (Jul 9, 2019 04:31PM)
Great-thanks again. what about post hypnotic suggestions? thinking back, I recall that this is the subject which first got me interested & a bit freaked out about hypnosis. in the early 90's I was reading a book by the nobel prize winning physicist Richard Feynman which included a story about his experience with hypnosis & a post hypnotic suggestion which he was unable to resist. recently, in my studies I also came across the story of a lady who was given a PHS at a stage show to fall asleep whenever she heard a certain song. apparently it was never removed and weeks later she fell right asleep at her desk after one of her co-workers started whistling the tune at work. seems to me that it could have been very dangerous if she heard it on the radio while driving or was operating heavy machinery at work rather than sitting at a desk. I'm not sure how true or accurate this story is or if it's even possible.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 9, 2019 04:41PM)
Urban legend. Once they leave the area of influence the suggestion quickly fades.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 9, 2019 06:00PM)
...or it was done by someone who gave the suggestions poorly.
Message: Posted by: ahimsa42 (Jul 10, 2019 05:49AM)
There certainly does seem to be a great deal of misinformation about this subject-which I guess is not all that surprising as since from what I have many hypnotists themselves often have trouble agreeing about certain fundamental issues.

another one I read about just recently was a math teacher who was made to forget a number at a show and then was not able to teach her class for a week until the suggestion was removed.

Mindpro-i am curious as to why would a poorly worded suggestion could cause something like what was described. if it were able to do so, would not that make hypnosis a potentially very dangerous thing in the hands of unethical or incompetent practitioners?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 10, 2019 10:10AM)
No.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 10, 2019 11:03AM)
[quote]On Jul 10, 2019, ahimsa42 wrote:
There certainly does seem to be a great deal of misinformation about this subject-which I guess is not all that surprising as since from what I have many hypnotists themselves often have trouble agreeing about certain fundamental issues.


Mindpro-i am curious as to why would a poorly worded suggestion could cause something like what was described. if it were able to do so, would not that make hypnosis a potentially very dangerous thing in the hands of unethical or incompetent practitioners? [/quote]


First, I am curious to know what you mean by "in my studies..." What type of studies have you done?

The problem I often see (as someone who has trained many over the years in stage hypnosis) is many today feel reading information online or watching youtube videos is studying or research. Most are just uneducated and informed opinions, or information by someone who is promoting their perspectives to sell a product, technique or method,(as we often see here).

You must understand the last 15-20 years has created a ton of wannabe "hypnotists" who aren't truly in anyway hypnotists or qualified to offer advice, yet they do all over the internet. They simply offer opinion or agenda-based information.

With that said, to address your question, these many poor or wannabe hypnotists I speak of often do not know what they are doing and are doing things for the wrong reason (many to chose from), not to be serious, legitimate hypnotists.

For example, a poor hypnotist may give a suggestion of "when I count to three you will__________." Leaving it open-ended or non-concluding. I see hypnotists all the time that do not even attempt to bring their subjects out or fail to conclude properly or terminate suggestion. because there is no such thing as remaining stuck in hypnosis, if they forget, they feel its no big deal. Same for the guys that promote no-trance hypnosis or other trendy things, this leads to many other misbeliefs and mishaps fro the uneducated or misinformed.

This, of course, is how a lot of these crazy stories, misinformation, and even lawsuits begin, which usually have no merit or basis because they are occurring from an uneducated, uninformed point of view, or they are based on misinformation given by the "hypnotist."

This is why I always say get the proper training, education and proper skills as your foundation before ever trying to get to the execution or performance aspects. Stay away from youtube and online reading until after your foundational knowledge is firmly established, understood and in place. Then you will be better equipped to evaluate and see the junk that is being perpetuated and peddled out there.
Message: Posted by: ahimsa42 (Jul 10, 2019 05:45PM)
Mindpro,

i did start my investigation of this subject on youtube but ended up reading dozens of research papers which I found online. I started to look into it for reasons of therapy and quickly got disturbed & confused about what I saw & read so decided to check out what the science said about it. everyone seems to have a different take on hypnosis and I basically want to find out how susceptible I may be to for therapeutic reasons. as someone who is extremely analytical, it is my understanding that this attribute can often hamper the process & results. I did read an interesting research paper which found a correlation between one's ability to roll their eyes back in their head with their hypnotic susceptibility. the findings concluded that the more one can roll their eyes with little or no color showing, the more hypnotizable they were found to be, trying it on myself, I found I am only able to roll my eyes very little if at all.

also, as I said in my first post, I am a total control freak so was disturbed to consider putting myself in a position of not being able to think or act of my own conscious volition. I have tried many of the self hypnosis video's on youtube such as hands sticking, eyes not being able to open & hands moving up & down by imagining a balloon and a weight in each of them but they have had zero effect.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 10, 2019 06:14PM)
Where are these "research papers" from?
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 10, 2019 06:34PM)
[quote]On Jul 10, 2019, ahimsa42 wrote:
Mindpro,

I did read an interesting research paper which found a correlation between one's ability to roll their eyes back in their head with their hypnotic susceptibility. the findings concluded that the more one can roll their eyes with little or no color showing, the more hypnotizable they were found to be, trying it on myself, I found I am only able to roll my eyes very little if at all.

I have tried many of the self hypnosis video's on youtube such as hands sticking, eyes not being able to open & hands moving up & down by imagining a balloon and a weight in each of them but they have had zero effect. [/quote]

Exactly my point. None of these (rarely) are anything to do with hypnosis. So much of the stuff you are reading are distorted and taken out of context perspectives, often based on nothing more than basic susceptibility tests that many of today's uninformed and uneducated (and magicians) believe to be hypnosis.

The more of this stuff you read the more damage you will be doing to your learning, the more confusing you will become and the more conflicting information you will discover.

I can always tell the guys (and gals) that read a lot of books and online materials that think they have a clue as when it comes to actual training they find everything is completely different from what they have allowed themselves to believe, and usually become more difficult to train because of the junk they have in their heads and the false information and belief they have accepted as real or credible. Again, that's why I say stay off of youtube and away from Google and online "research papaers."
Message: Posted by: ahimsa42 (Jul 10, 2019 09:12PM)
Here are examples few of the many which I have read:

Hypnosis and the relationship between trance, suggestion,
expectancy and depth: Some semantic and conceptual issues
Graham F. Wagstaff
American Journal of Clinical Hypnosis 53:1, July 2010

The Role of Expectancy, Amnesia, and Hypnotic
Induction in the Performance of Posthypnotic Behavior.
Ronald Lawrence Gandolfo

The Domain of Hypnosis:
A Multifactorial Model
Frederick J. Evans
American Journal of Clinical Hypnosis 43:1, July 2000


CHAPTER 17
Consciousness in Hypnosis
John F. Kihlstrom
THE CAMBRIDGE HANDBOOK OF CONSCIOUSNESS

Making the Distinction Between the “Hypnotic” and “Non-Hypnotic”
Author's Response to Commentaries
Graham F. Wagstaff, PhD
The Journal of Mind Body Regulation March, 2014
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 10, 2019 10:46PM)
Thanks for sharing. Now it gets to be about the time we must ask what does this have to do with entertainment hypnosis? This forum isn't to discuss the reality of hypnosis, theory, or hypnotherapy, but rather entertainment hypnosis.

Seems the material you are reading is just I as stated earlier. We were happy to give you our initial thoughts but do not want to lead this into directions against the real purpose of the forum.
Message: Posted by: ahimsa42 (Jul 11, 2019 06:10AM)
This is just a subject I am both interested in and confused about so was trying to educate myself further. it was my lack of understanding when it came to control/voluntary actions under hypnosis which first led me to post here. the seeming contradictions in regards to the subjects supposedly always being in control while at the same time hearing about people "made" to do things at stage shows which they were later embarrassed about seemed vexing to me. needless to say, with all of the myths & misinformation it is difficult to find a coherent and accurate picture of it-which I guess is not all that surprising seeing as how it is almost entirely subjective in nature.

also, perhaps I am mistaken, but are not all forms of hypnosis related in many ways-aside from perhaps the desired outcome? I understand that many therapists are very much against stage hypnosis & the myths that it helps to propagate but to me this seems strange since most people would have never even have heard of it without the entertainment industry factor from movies, stage shows & street demo's.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 11, 2019 08:43AM)
[quote]On Jul 11, 2019, ahimsa42 wrote:
the seeming contradictions in regards to the subjects supposedly always being in control while at the same time hearing about people "made" to do things at stage shows which they were later embarrassed about seemed vexing to me.

also, perhaps I am mistaken, but are not all forms of hypnosis related in many ways-aside from perhaps the desired outcome? I understand that many therapists are very much against stage hypnosis & the myths that it helps to propagate but to me this seems strange since most people would have never even have heard of it without the entertainment industry factor from movies, stage shows & street demo's. [/quote]

I completely understand your point and confusion. So much of the information offered against stage or performance hypnosis are by the therapists as you say they are against stage hypnosis. These people love to create stories that can be used against (or to damage) stage performers. Most of them are just that, made up stories, or jaded perspectives used to support their jaded opinions.

There are some jealousies there for sure. A hypnotherapist may earn $120 for a session with a patient, a stage performer may earn $1,500 for a show. Do you see where such conflicting perspectives can begin?

I agree with you completely and have letters from many local hypnotherapists in cities where I have performed both thanking me for my great performance and showcase of hypnosis performed in a skilled, safe and professional manner and how in the days following my performance they received much interest and inquiries in their practice because of it. To me, this is how it should be but it is the hypnotherapists that seem to perpetuate the problem. When I had my practice I used the stage shows to generate clinical customers. It was my #1 way of markering and offered so many benefits to both them and my business.

Now don't get me wrong, I also understand why so many clinical, therapeutic and Hypnotherapists feel this way, which is because many of today's "stage hypnotists or entertainment hypnotists are poorly trained( often reading only books on theory/history or taking a weekend course), attempt to hypnotize unsuspecting subjects (street or ambush hypnosis) or simply do not have the proper education, skills and professional protocol to execute their hypnosis properly. This gives us all a bad name, image, and reputation, not just the Hypnotherapy community. So the real issue is becoming properly skilled and educated in the proper training to gain the respect of the community. Most stage hypnotists operate, like magicians, from a me-perspective based on what they think, want and believe. In reality, they should be operating from an industry perspective to gain the full education, support and of the entire hypnosis industry and community.

Now with that said, the other side of the coin is stage hypnotists that have committed to the proper knowledge, education, training, and skills to perform a great and professional stage show are often disgruntled with the local hypnotherapist that attempts to do a stage show when he gets an inquiry just because he knows or is trained in hypnosis. This is no way makes them a skilled or professional performer. They are not used to working with large groups of subjects, they are not used to getting the comedic and animated elements out of subjects, and almost always have no control over such a large group. Simply put, they may know hypnosis, but they are not performers or entertainers or have any of the skills required to be a quality, headlining performer. They are not performers at all. Yet when they get such a call, they immediately think "wow" I could do this for $700, which may be more than I make in a week of clients", so they accept the gig based on the money. However, in reality, they are hurting the professional market by undercutting the skilled professional stage performers, and leading the false belief (something not good for a hypnotherapist) that they can somehow be a stage entertainer and operate the two shows at once that occurs with every stage hypnosis performance - the one the crowd experiences, and the one the on-stage participants are experiencing. Two hugely different things. So you can see where the pro stage hypnotists also have a very legitimate case. Of course, the Hypnotherapists get all defensive and angry when this argument comes up against them.

Also, most volunteers or subjects that are in a stage show often only repeat what others told them about their participation in the stage show. Most would never think or say they did things against their will or anything about loss of control. Hypnosis is a heightened state of awareness, so if anything they usually feel they are more in control, so these stories again are either made up or are almost always agenda-based, often for someone opportunists seeking a lawsuit or some believed settlement.

No insurance company has ever paid out for anyone stuck in hypnosis or their own actions in hypnosis. Sure on the surface it seems like a great cover for the premise but is very flimsy in reality.

All of this reality is rarely discussed or offered in the proper context in books or research papers. This, of course, is the real issue - all of these students that research and read these articles and papers are dealing in opinion and theory, where those of us skilled and properly trained that are working professionally deal in the facts, truths, and realities every day.
Message: Posted by: ahimsa42 (Jul 12, 2019 05:10PM)
Sounds like we are on the same page in many ways when it comes to the relationship between stage & therapy so thanks for your thoughts. can I ask what kind of ranges of reactions you & anyone else have had from subjects after shows? have people ever been angry or upset at their actions? have they ever blamed you for "making" them do things? I have also heard people say that whatever they were asked to do just seemed like the greatest idea ever so they did not even consider questioning them. some also said that when they saw the video, it did not play out at all like they felt when it was happening so that is why I would question the idea of a heighten state of awareness. of course, perhaps the things that I read are also made up.

btw, I assume you have been hypnotized yourself? have you experienced any of the things personally which the people in your shows do-even just forgetting your name, not being able to recognize a friend or family member, forgetting a number or not being able to move? I kind of wonder if being in the field would add or take anything away from being hypnotized.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 14, 2019 10:19AM)
[quote]On Jul 12, 2019, ahimsa42 wrote:
can I ask what kind of ranges of reactions you & anyone else have had from subjects after shows? have people ever been angry or upset at their actions? have they ever blamed you for "making" them do things? I have also heard people say that whatever they were asked to do just seemed like the greatest idea ever so they did not even consider questioning them. [/quote]


I get fantastic reactions and no, I have never encountered even a single person that was angry or upset? Why would they be? No one ever "blamed" me for anything. It is usually just the opposite, they are thanking me for their experience and great feelings.

The things you're asking about are not really encountered with a good, professional hypnotist. Any misconceptions or anything that could possibly lead to anything like this (I still don't think it ever would) are clearly covered, explained and established in a good Pretalk. By the time I get volunteers on stage they have been properly informed and educated, misconceptions removed and dealt with, and have already shown signs of being a god subject through conditioning and Pretesting, so all of that is prevented if it ever would exist. People that I finally select for my show are up there because they truly want to experience hypnosis.

I am probably one of the largest shows in America as I regularly have between 45 and 75 volunteers on my stage each show deppending on the size of the audience and the size of the stage. If I see someone not responding, I get rid of them, period. I eliminate most potential for anything problematic. Once you've done this for a while you can almost immediately identify anyone that could even POSSIBLY be not serious or problematic, and you eliminate them immediately. This is my show and I have no room for anything but those serious with the best intentions of wanting to experience hypnosis.

The comments and discussions I get after each and every show is how great they feel, that they really don't remember much of what they did and what they do remember is usually because someone (friends with them) just told them and they then are recalling it, but even then they don't remember too many specifics. They use words like "that was amazing" or "that was the coolest sh*t I've ever seen" or "man, that felt so fantastic" and so on. Never do I get negatives like you are mentioning. Nor do I see it when I attend other hypnotist's shows.

I think a lot of what you are reading is not coming from truly experienced performers or subjects that were truly hypnotized. Again, there is a lot of crap and wannabees out there that have no idea what they're doing and it leaves a bad impression with both the audience and the subjects, and as you can see, does damage the industry and our credibility.

You must remember if they are doing that much conscious thinking during a show, are they really allowing themselves to be hypnotized?

Many hypnotists have never been hypnotized themselves. They want to be too in control. I have and enjoyed it. I've found most hypnotists want to remain conscious to watch and see others executions, methods, and techniques.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 14, 2019 11:34AM)
I have never had anyone angry. Mainly because when you do the show you ask for VOLUNTEERS, you don't force people. What can they possibly be angry about?
Message: Posted by: Wravyn (Jul 14, 2019 12:36PM)
A question for you Mindpro,
You said "If I see someone not responding, I get rid of them, period. I eliminate most potential for anything problematic."
Do you have an off stage assistant that helps by pointing out these volunteers?
I think it was Ormond McGill that mentioned to have a person in the wings watching also and to use a green light to assist the hypnotist with possible problematic volunteers, especially when you have a committee as large as you get.
Or is it something that you get a feel for with the experience you have acquired?
Message: Posted by: ahimsa42 (Jul 14, 2019 12:50PM)
I don't know-perhaps being humiliated or embarrassed about their actions? one would think that perhaps if they were very skeptical in the first place, even though they may have volunteered, doing very silly things in public-even as part of a show- may elicit anger or other negative reactions?

for example, recently I was looking at some of the old posts in this forum and found the post below which discusses the fact that many hypnotists vehemently disagree with the claims in the FAQ about which I first started this thread. it is things like this which greatly add to the confusion about this subject. #1, 5 6 & 8 would also suggest great potential for a negative reaction

"Not changed it's just that many GOOD hypnotists would disagree with several of his points. Here is what 'I' would say

In point
1) I think the hypnotist CAN make you do things against your will
2)Some CANNOT come out of it of their own freewill
4) Some are completely unconscious (or to be precise: 'unaware') of what's going on.
5)One CAN be made to reveal secrets
6)Hypnosis CAN be dangerous
8) I think there is a tad of emperical evidence out there that certain types ARE addicted to hypnosis.
(note that the numbers are based on how HE numbered them)

I wouldn't have a desire to argue with anyone on all of these, however my experience tells me that points: 1,4,5 and 6 are correct.
Like I said, I/we know things today we didn't know a couple years ago. The only reason I believe someone as skilled as Lee Darrow wouldn't know that is because he never tried, probably based on the fact that his mentor told him it couldn't be done perhaps?
ie: getting a stranger's pin number is now standard stock for many street hypnotists, is it not? What would Lee have said? That it didn't happen?"
Message: Posted by: ahimsa42 (Jul 14, 2019 01:01PM)
"By the time I get volunteers on stage they have been properly informed and educated, misconceptions removed and dealt with, and have already shown signs of being a god subject through conditioning and Pretesting, so all of that is prevented if it ever would exist."

Mindpro-another point of confusion for me. do you say in your pre-talk that they will be completely conscious, aware and in control at all times? it seems that this would very much contradict what you said about most of them not remembering much or anything they did. I would think that not being able to recall one's actions would cause anxiety & fear for some people. I know it certainly would in my case. just the thought of acting silly & irrationally in public makes me upset & anxious.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 14, 2019 01:15PM)
[quote]On Jul 14, 2019, Wravyn wrote:
A question for you Mindpro,
You said "If I see someone not responding, I get rid of them, period. I eliminate most potential for anything problematic."
Do you have an off stage assistant that helps by pointing out these volunteers?
I think it was Ormond McGill that mentioned to have a person in the wings watching also and to use a green light to assist the hypnotist with possible problematic volunteers, especially when you have a committee as large as you get.
Or is it something that you get a feel for with the experience you have acquired? [/quote]

For a decade I toured with my (adult) daughter until she turned about 30 and wanted to focus on her own things. Since then I do it all myself, which is why I am pretty no-nonsense about it all. They know before they come up I will not be keeping everyone and that some will get sent back. I do it in a very acceptable and courteous way, so there are no negative implications.

You do get a feel for it but there are many different things going on at all times (induction, running my own production music, sfx, etc.) and of course proper management of so many subjects and their safety at all times. You do get used to it but I will admit I preferred it much more with my assistant.

I don't like someone "in the wings", I'd either want them in my show or not at all.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 14, 2019 01:23PM)
[quote]On Jul 14, 2019, ahimsa42 wrote:
Mindpro-another point of confusion for me. do you say in your pre-talk that they will be completely conscious, aware and in control at all times? [/quote]

I definitely never said that or ever would.
Message: Posted by: Wravyn (Jul 14, 2019 01:27PM)
Ahisma42, I can't answer for either Mindpro or Danny. Yet from my own personal understanding, a pre-talk about what the audience is going to witness and the committee will be experiencing is both educational and entertaining at the same time. This sets both the audience and the future committee volunteers at ease with acceptable boundaries. Since you mention that you would be anxious, I would feel safe to say that you would accept the suggestion of being a member of the audience and not allow yourself to go on stage.
I may be wrong in that I feel that the pre-talk itself is a form of mass waking induction, allowing all to accept or reject the suggestion of entering the lime light or sitting back and enjoying the phenomena of hypnosis at work.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 14, 2019 01:36PM)
[quote]On Jul 14, 2019, ahimsa42 wrote:
I don't know-perhaps being humiliated or embarrassed about their actions? one would think that perhaps if they were very skeptical in the first place, even though they may have volunteered, doing very silly things in public-even as part of a show- may elicit anger or other negative reactions? [/quote]

I don't do the type of show that is embarrassing, demeaning or anything that would cause or create regret. Now there are many hypnotists that do, they don't care about embarrassing the subjects, some their show is actually all about it, but even then, the subjects know that before they volunteer and come up.

You seem to be caught up in this "making them feel embarrassed" or concerned about their actions or "being angered." It is just this type of theoretic thinking and mentalities that some of these guys with little or no experience write about. There are things you can do to prevent this.

I also disagree with you that people would volunteer if they are skeptical as they likely would be more "embarrassed" about being dismissed. You must also remember their responses are their own creation so if anything of the sort did happen it wasn't because I "made them do it" it was of their own doing and if they were concerned about being embarrassed they wouldn't let themselves do it in the first place.
Message: Posted by: ahimsa42 (Jul 14, 2019 01:51PM)
[quote]On Jul 14, 2019, Mindpro wrote:
[quote]On Jul 14, 2019, ahimsa42 wrote:
Mindpro-another point of confusion for me. do you say in your pre-talk that they will be completely conscious, aware and in control at all times? [/quote]

I definitely never said that or ever would. [/quote]

the reason why I ask is that what I stated is often used to try and allay the fears of potential subjects-it's even in the FAQ of this very forum.
Message: Posted by: ahimsa42 (Jul 14, 2019 01:54PM)
[quote]On Jul 14, 2019, Wravyn wrote:
Ahisma42, I can't answer for either Mindpro or Danny. Yet from my own personal understanding, a pre-talk about what the audience is going to witness and the committee will be experiencing is both educational and entertaining at the same time. This sets both the audience and the future committee volunteers at ease with acceptable boundaries. Since you mention that you would be anxious, I would feel safe to say that you would accept the suggestion of being a member of the audience and not allow yourself to go on stage.
I may be wrong in that I feel that the pre-talk itself is a form of mass waking induction, allowing all to accept or reject the suggestion of entering the lime light or sitting back and enjoying the phenomena of hypnosis at work. [/quote]

thanks Wyvern-i'm not even sure I would want to be in the audience either to tell you the truth. sometimes my fear of appearing foolish extends to watching other who are too.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 14, 2019 01:58PM)
[quote]On Jul 14, 2019, ahimsa42 wrote:
[quote]On Jul 14, 2019, Mindpro wrote:
[quote]On Jul 14, 2019, ahimsa42 wrote:
Mindpro-another point of confusion for me. do you say in your pre-talk that they will be completely conscious, aware and in control at all times? [/quote]

I definitely never said that or ever would. [/quote]

the reason why I ask is that what I stated is often used to try and allay the fears of potential subjects-it's even in the FAQ of this very forum. [/quote]

I still do not see where they say they will be completely "conscious".

I think you may be confusing "being aware" with being "conscious".
Message: Posted by: ahimsa42 (Jul 14, 2019 02:10PM)
[quote]On Jul 14, 2019, Mindpro wrote:

I also disagree with you that people would volunteer if they are skeptical as they likely would be more "embarrassed" about being dismissed. You must also remember their responses are their own creation so if anything of the sort did happen it wasn't because I "made them do it" it was of their own doing and if they were concerned about being embarrassed they wouldn't let themselves do it in the first place. [/quote]

this is the crux of my consternation. I have heard this stated before many times but then read about experienced people on this very forum who claim that people can be made to give up personal secrets and made to do things unwillingly (as shown in my previous post of the copy & paste from a old thread about the FAQ) even if you personally don't do this. what you said makes perfect sense if these things are not true but apparently many here claim that they are true.

also, I don't quite understand why all those people would be OK with not remembering what they did during the show. in any area of life, not remembering one's own actions would be considered a major problem by most people.
Message: Posted by: ahimsa42 (Jul 14, 2019 02:16PM)
[quote]On Jul 14, 2019, Mindpro wrote:

I still do not see where they say they will be completely "conscious".

I think you may be confusing "being aware" with being "conscious". [/quote]

i'm not sure I understand the difference. can someone be unconscious but still aware?

also, from #4 on the FAQ:
" Many people are worried by stage hypnosis and the fact that the subjects, many of whom do ridicu­lous things during the session, seem to have no knowledge of anything around them or recollection of what they did after the show."

which seems to contradict what you said about people not remembering much or anything after the show.
Message: Posted by: Wravyn (Jul 14, 2019 02:49PM)
[quote]On Jul 14, 2019, Mindpro wrote:
[quote]On Jul 14, 2019, Wravyn wrote:
A question for you Mindpro,
You said "If I see someone not responding, I get rid of them, period. I eliminate most potential for anything problematic."
Do you have an off stage assistant that helps by pointing out these volunteers?
I think it was Ormond McGill that mentioned to have a person in the wings watching also and to use a green light to assist the hypnotist with possible problematic volunteers, especially when you have a committee as large as you get.
Or is it something that you get a feel for with the experience you have acquired? [/quote]

For a decade I toured with my (adult) daughter until she turned about 30 and wanted to focus on her own things. Since then I do it all myself, which is why I am pretty no-nonsense about it all. They know before they come up I will not be keeping everyone and that some will get sent back. I do it in a very acceptable and courteous way, so there are no negative implications.

You do get a feel for it but there are many different things going on at all times (induction, running my own production music, sfx, etc.) and of course proper management of so many subjects and their safety at all times. You do get used to it but I will admit I preferred it much more with my assistant.

I don't like someone "in the wings", I'd either want them in my show or not at all. [/quote]

Thank you.
Do you tour or do you have a home venue?

In reading Danny's posts, it sounds like he has 'home venues' in which he is booked for weeks/months on end and in areas that I don't believe I would be able to vacation to.

I know there are shows in Vegas, but that is a bit out of reach for me also. I'm not a big city person.


I have seen hypno shows by some of the street-to-stage persons in my area over the years and was underwhelmed with the experience.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 14, 2019 02:57PM)
I never said they don't remember. They do, as I said the minute someone tells them or mentions to them about what they did they are able to recall it. They do remember. Think of it as yourself when you wake up in the morning after a full nights sleep. You may not remember everything you dreamt about, but later if something makes you think about something it may trigger the memory of it.

You must remember when you read statements like this you are most often missing the actual exact context. You are taking these statements and trying to make them apply universally.

Next, yes, there is a difference between being aware and being conscious - you can be aware in both conscious and subconscious states.

Most importantly, you must remember where you are at and keep what you read here with this in mind. 95% of everything in the s forum is from guys that are MAGICIANS that only want to learn something that looks like or resembles hypnosis. Perhaps pseudo hypnosis. Maybe a few will learn actual hypnosis basics, but that is it. They do not really or seriously want to learn the art and science of actual hypnosis. Then to take that a step farther there are some guys that pop in here from time to time that have marketed "hypnosis" for magicians, disc jockeys and comedians in the promise of a greater payday and better, more fun audiences. Becoming a more prestigious performer. Many of these materials are little more than attempting to pass off basic or simple suggestibility tests as real hypnosis. That's why there is such a big deal about getting someone's hand struck to the table around here. They have bought into this marketing attempt hook, line and sinker and somehow believe it IS hypnosis and worse yet that THEY are Hypnotists!

So take what you read here with a grain of salt if you do not know the member and their background, experience, and/or the proper context of the information being offered.

I think you can count the number of real working professional hypnotists here on your two hands and still have fingers left over, maybe on only one hand.

Again, this was my entre point originally - you can not rely on what you read or find on the internet. It will drive you crazy with stuff being presented ac real or factual information when it is not. Stop reading!

Learn hypnosis properly and professionally. Get rid of all the noise and deal in facts and realities from experienced professionals - not magicians, arm-chair hypnotists or theorists, or wannabees. There used to be a kid here that ran a podcast that regularly offered some of the worst information I have ever seen and had some of the most uncredible guests in the business. Yet he himself never did a stage show and only experienced very casually and limited with street or ambush hypnosis. I saw him once here on Freemont street and it was a joke. No credibility, no industry experience and no actual working professional experience. Just a mic, his own computer, and probably an attendee ticket to Hypnothoughts and he felt he was able to speak authoritatively on hypnosis. It is crazy, yet that is what most are here on online.

Be careful who and what you listen to. All information and insight is not created equally.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 14, 2019 03:11PM)
[quote]On Jul 14, 2019, Wravyn wrote:

Do you tour or do you have a home venue?

In reading Danny's posts, it sounds like he has 'home venues' in which he is booked for weeks/months on end and in areas that I don't believe I would be able to vacation to.

I know there are shows in Vegas, but that is a bit out of reach for me also. I'm not a big city person.


I have seen hypno shows by some of the street-to-stage persons in my area over the years and was underwhelmed with the experience. [/quote]


I agree, I am underwhelmed with most hypnosis shows these days myself.

Do I do not have a home venue or residency. I am on the road working 40-43 weeks a year, I just returned from my annual Spring Tour which started back in March and concluded just a couple of weeks ago.

For many years I worked the school market (still do) and then when schools would end in May/June I would go right into the fairs and festival market through the summer and into September, and then it was back to schools again. This kept me working year-round, Years ago I too worked comedy clubs and resorts like Danny, but have become very prominent in my market now taking much of the summer off to focus more on my entertainment business coaching, consulting, and training clients and students, and also producing other shows and tours of mine and my company's.

I am very fortunate as I am also an agency owner of several agencies, a talent broker and producer, so I get promotional materials and invited to see many other hypnotists shows (that are seeking representation consideration from us) and I must tell you it is the worst I have ever seen. Seriously. Youtube, the internet, and the weekend training events by unqualified instructors have created a generation of terrible hypnotists and terrible performers (actually most are not even performers or entertainers). So this allows me to keep a good pulse on who and what is out there, working where, for how much, and a host of other particulars. I probably see more hypnotists than most. So when I post here it is always definitely from and industry perspective and experience, based and far more information than most here.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 14, 2019 03:22PM)
I tried. I'm done.

Regardless of what you think a hypnotist can't make you do anything against your will.

So for all your experience of being an audience member and reading "research papers" on Google you want to argue. You claim not wanting to argue yet itis exactly what you are doing. You have preconceived notions and are pushing those.
Message: Posted by: ahimsa42 (Jul 14, 2019 08:13PM)
[quote]On Jul 14, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
I tried. I'm done.

Regardless of what you think a hypnotist can't make you do anything against your will.

So for all your experience of being an audience member and reading "research papers" on Google you want to argue. You claim not wanting to argue yet itis exactly what you are doing. You have preconceived notions and are pushing those. [/quote]

that's just it-it's not me who is claiming this but other hypnotists-some on this very forum who supposedly have a great deal of practical experience. I found a copy of "Reality is Plastic" online and along with several stories about hypnotizing unsuspecting strangers to steal products & drinks from them for free, he also states this:

"It is often stated by hypnotists that you cannot make people do things they normally would not do and certainly cannot make people do things against their morals and ethics. I absolutely disagree."

later in the section it states "When hypnotizing you are not making people do things against their will but are instead bending their reality so that the subject's will has an interest in following your direction"

to me, this is just semantics and means the exact same thing-i.e. I am not making them do things against their will, instead I am controlling their will so they want to do what I say.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 14, 2019 08:37PM)
OK here is always my test. I offered this to Anthony years ago and somehow he managed to not want to do it.

I (And probably Mindpro and a few others.) will put $10,000 in an escrow account, and so will Anthony.

IF he can come to MY neighborhood and do those things with people I point to and they do what he claims he gets all the money. No talking to them or knowing who I'm going to point to. Why would he not accept this sort of thing if what he claims is true is true? OH I KNOW! Because it is crapola and nothing but a way to sell nonsense to unsuspecting dupes.

THE SECOND you tell someone to steal something under "hypnosis" (A laughable term.) if they are not PREDISPOSED to steal stuff for you in the first place they will say NO and not do it. PERIOD. If you have a live person who can take my challenge please have them step forward.

This is not the Jedi mind trick. This is not mind control. IT IS SUGGESTION. The idea that you think someone can control the mind of another or bend their reality to make them do stupid things like steal is hilariously ignorant. It is flights of fancy. It is bunk. It is rubbish and urban legends. Ask Anthony how many people he misses with before he gets that type of video.

And it IS YOU who is arguing. You are just using proxy folks to make your statements of what you believe. You're trolling. It is just that it is fairly entertaining is all.

So again bring forth one of the people who believe it is mind control for the challenge. Let's get it done. If it is so easy, if it is just so easy then why do you not see it done every day? My lord how silly.

And maybe, just MAYBE if he was right, HE WOULD NOT HAVE GONE OUT OF BUSINESS! http://headhacking.com/
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 14, 2019 09:34PM)
I completely agree and THIS is exactly the type of stuff I've been referring to - Hypnosis for magicians - making a huge deal about getting your hand stuck to something and claiming it to be hypnosis. This is like somehow believing that talking about racing to a NASCAR racing professional when you are someone that only has driven a go-cart or has ridden the race car out in front of a Kmart for a quarter are somehow you beliving they are the same thing. It's laughable.

I remember the challenge some here offered and how it was quickly discarded.

When you are ready to talk about real-world hypnosis let me know. As I told you and warned you from the beginning of this thread - stop reading and buying into the crap, stop watching youtube videos from wannabees, and "hypnosis" products for magicians, and deal in real professional training of actual experienced working hypnosis professionals.

I also know a fellow hypnotist that recently burned big time from another one of these things types of nonsense trainings and material from Tripp and his "hypnosis without a trance". None of this or their related theories have a place on a quality, professional stage hypnosis business. The only suggestion they have accomplished is getting you and others to believe and buy this nonsense.
Message: Posted by: ahimsa42 (Jul 15, 2019 04:56AM)
Thank you both-i can assure you that I am not trolling in any way but instead have a deep seated unease about this subject. I guess you are both right and I should just stop reading & watching things like this anymore as they just help to contribute to my anxiety & control issues.

best of luck to both of you.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 15, 2019 08:47AM)
Well you are choosing to educate yourself according to your own unease as opposed to facts.

You seek out information that bolsters your own viewpoint. Try fact seeking instead of finding what you are already in agreement with.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 15, 2019 09:04AM)
Remind me, have you ever seen/been to a stage hypnosis show? Where are you located, in the UK? Are you a magician?
Message: Posted by: jnork (Jul 15, 2019 09:40AM)
Here there ahimsa42,
Danny and MindPro are giving you sage advice. Take it. Listen to it. Use it. No matter what YOU believe or think, there are certain FACTS about 'hypnosis'. You can argue or disagree as much as you want, but it won't matter. For this thread I am NOT talking about hypnotherapy. Only a hypnosis show.

IMO, seems like you (personally) have issues with being embarrassed or seeing others being embarrassed. Totally fine. You most likely would never volunteer for a show. Perhaps you'd never even attend one. Again, totally fine. While in my show nobody is ever humiliated, they are also never forced to participate. So, even after my pre-talk assuring the audience of that, you'd most likely STILL not volunteer in my show. Totally fine.

People in hypnosis cannot do things against their moral, ethical or religious beliefs in hypnosis IF THEY DON'T WANT TO DO IT. Read that last sentence again. Then when you're done, read it one more time. We, as hypnotists, give suggestions. They are suggestions. We guide, suggest and conduct, on stage, to our 'orchestra' (our volunteers)in a show that is meant to be entertaining and fun (sometimes educational).

In regards to memory or memory loss here's what I found:
Some people think that in hypnosis they remember everything. After my show, I've found they remember everything that happened on stage.
Some people think that in hypnosis they remember nothing. After my show, I've found they remember very little/nothing that happened on stage.
Some people think that in hypnosis they remember some things, don't remember others, and that they go in and out of 'memory' while in trance. After my show, I've found they remember some things and don't remember others.

It becomes your job to educate yourself. To find the right mentor/instructor for you. But you must separate the 'sales pitch' and marketing from what actually happens. Like has been suggested above, if you think it's 'too good to be true' it probably is. Call out that instructor much like noted above. Give that challenge of $10K if they make someone that you point to steal a TV while in 'hypnosis' and you'll find out really quick they won't take you up on that offer.

What you may be missing here is that we are doing this as 'entertainment' and it's our job to deliver a fun show.
YOU choose if you want it X-Rated or clean.
YOU suggest to your volunteeers to hump chairs or drive a car.
YOU suggest to your volunteers if you want to give them orgasms or make them laugh.
Just because you suggest the above to your audience, it STILL doesn't mean they'll do it. One person may have an issue with an orgasm yet be totally fine with chair humping. One may be fine with doing it all, or none. That's where the training comes in. You find the best out of your audience for your show and deliver the show that fits you the best.

Jason
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 15, 2019 09:48AM)
Also, in reality, YOU can choose if they remember everything or not too. Nice post jnork.
Message: Posted by: ahimsa42 (Jul 15, 2019 04:02PM)
[quote]On Jul 15, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Well you are choosing to educate yourself according to your own unease as opposed to facts.

You seek out information that bolsters your own viewpoint. Try fact seeking instead of finding what you are already in agreement with. [/quote]

perhaps you are correct. I thought I was seeking facts but seem to be drawn to the "dark" side so to speak. this also is likely fear based.
Message: Posted by: ahimsa42 (Jul 15, 2019 04:12PM)
[quote]On Jul 15, 2019, Mindpro wrote:
Remind me, have you ever seen/been to a stage hypnosis show? Where are you located, in the UK? Are you a magician? [/quote]

i have never attended one in person and I think the next post by jnork is spot on about why I likely would not ever do so. I am located near Chicago and have attended a few seminar's in the area. I am planning on going to an upcoming self hypnosis class in August being held by Lewis Dark who is a local stage hypnotist. not a magician either-just very interested in this subject and the human mind & have been for a very long time. it is only now that I am attempting to educate myself about it (although apparently failing miserably by all accounts).
Message: Posted by: ahimsa42 (Jul 15, 2019 04:28PM)
[quote]On Jul 15, 2019, jnork wrote:
Here there ahimsa42,
Danny and MindPro are giving you sage advice. Take it. Listen to it. Use it. No matter what YOU believe or think, there are certain FACTS about 'hypnosis'. You can argue or disagree as much as you want, but it won't matter. For this thread I am NOT talking about hypnotherapy. Only a hypnosis show.

IMO, seems like you (personally) have issues with being embarrassed or seeing others being embarrassed. Totally fine. You most likely would never volunteer for a show. Perhaps you'd never even attend one. Again, totally fine. While in my show nobody is ever humiliated, they are also never forced to participate. So, even after my pre-talk assuring the audience of that, you'd most likely STILL not volunteer in my show. Totally fine.

People in hypnosis cannot do things against their moral, ethical or religious beliefs in hypnosis IF THEY DON'T WANT TO DO IT. Read that last sentence again. Then when you're done, read it one more time. We, as hypnotists, give suggestions. They are suggestions. We guide, suggest and conduct, on stage, to our 'orchestra' (our volunteers)in a show that is meant to be entertaining and fun (sometimes educational).


Jason [/quote]

you are very accurate here Jason. I do have a fear not only of being embarrassed or humiliated but also watching others who appear to be. in addition, the idea of not being able to think or act logically or to be in an irrational state-even for a short period of time-is another phobia of mine. perhaps my fear itself is irrational and I am projecting my feelings on the willing subjects in the video's I have seen but the idea of not being able to count, move my body, remember my own name or recognize a friend or family member is to me embarrassing & humiliating instead of being entertaining. it may be a fear of being weak & vulnerable which is at the root of these issues.

again, I am not arguing as I don't have any experience and know very little about the subject other than what I have read and since it was said that 95% of that is BS, perhaps that is next to nothing. regardless, I greatly appreciate your & everyone's else's time an input.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 15, 2019 04:42PM)
Thanks for the clarification. I'm guessing the self-hypnosis course may not be that helpful to you and may disappoint and confuse you even more. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts after doing so.

I do agree you should come to terms with your own issues and concerns and not try to put them onto hypnosis itself. Self-eduction of hypnosis is about the same as self-education to brain surgery. Stick to actual training, especially before getting into specific areas of hypnosis (self-hypnosis, therapeutic, labor/childbirth, pain control, phobias, etc.) Best of luck!
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 15, 2019 06:26PM)
I suggest you stop projecting your irrational fears on others.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 15, 2019 06:50PM)
...but will he accept the suggestion. You can not make one do anything they are not willing to do, lol.
Message: Posted by: ahimsa42 (Jul 15, 2019 08:24PM)
[quote]On Jul 15, 2019, Mindpro wrote:
Thanks for the clarification. I'm guessing the self-hypnosis course may not be that helpful to you and may disappoint and confuse you even more. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts after doing so.

I do agree you should come to terms with your own issues and concerns and not try to put them onto hypnosis itself. Self-eduction of hypnosis is about the same as self-education to brain surgery. Stick to actual training, especially before getting into specific areas of hypnosis (self-hypnosis, therapeutic, labor/childbirth, pain control, phobias, etc.) Best of luck! [/quote]

thank you-i will certainly let you know how it goes. guess I just don't get why someone would want to experience such an altered state of consciousness as entertainment.

btw, why do you think a course like that would not be productive? I doubt it would trigger any control issues for me not having to interact directly with someone else's suggestions.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 15, 2019 10:57PM)
You're not trying to understand hypnosis. You are trying to understand other people's motivation. You are looking in the wrong place and getting scared.
Message: Posted by: ahimsa42 (Jul 16, 2019 04:58AM)
[quote]On Jul 15, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
You're not trying to understand hypnosis. You are trying to understand other people's motivation. You are looking in the wrong place and getting scared. [/quote]

i guess I don't understand the difference since hypnosis is supposed to be something one does to themselves rather than something which is done to them would not that make them the same thing? for example, take a person forgetting their own name or a number. they obviously know these things and could say them if they wanted to so are they just pretending or are they lying to themselves? the same with people not being able to move their legs to pick up a $20 bill which they are told they can keep if they reach it. if it is voluntary, I don't get the idea of wanting to be like this or any possible benefit from being so.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 16, 2019 06:44AM)
[quote]On Jul 15, 2019, ahimsa42 wrote:
thank you-i will certainly let you know how it goes. guess I just don't get why someone would want to experience such an altered state of consciousness as entertainment.

btw, why do you think a course like that would not be productive? [/quote]

Like Headhacking, Lewis Dark is also out of the business as well. Again, you are reading too much online. Self-hypnosis won't help you or any of the issues you are having. You will feel unfulfilled and not get the answers you are seeking because you will not be learning about actual hypnosis. This is just another budget-priced weekend course that we've warned you about.

You don't realize it yet but those you are listening to aren't who you should be training with. Like magic, there are a ton of "magicians that rarely perform in the real world, but just continue to attend, appear and hangout at magic conventions, clubs, and around other wannabe magicians. The very same is true with hypnosis. While I don't know this guy personally, I too am from Chicago and was quite successful there with both my show, as well as my agencies and production companies for 25 years before moving to Las Vegas. I'm guessing this guy is in with the hypnosis convention crowd, which would red flag me immediately. The Mid-America Hypnosis Conference is filled with these kinds of guys. It is a convention hosted by a producer designed to make money off other hypnotists. Mostly clinical guys, enthusiasts and even a few clinical guys that attempt to lecture on entertainment hypnosis (which I have already given you the understanding of that). It's supposedly for learning new approaches, techniques, and scripts. These people/crowd and such events are not what you need or should be looking for. There's much more I could say, but won't. It's like Reality Is Plastic live. I wouldn't be surprised if the HH guys are guests there, as they too are part of this convention/lecture crowd.

I've trained hypnotists for years and still do in the Chicago area, but to be honest, wouldn't accept you because of all of your preconceived perceptions and hangups. It would present your progress or success. These would need to be dealt with first. You are thinking and operating from your own uninformed, misinformed opinions, not from within those of the industry (the first rule of business or education). Your own uninformed, uneducated thoughts are the last thing you should be listening to if seriously interested in learning the science of hypnosis. Only once you have the proper knowledge and education should you then allow your personal beliefs or preferences enter into the equation because then you will be educated with the proper tools to address them properly. Now they are preventing you from your progress and education. It would be like a new student in school thinking they know better than the teacher before ever learning anything.

If you want to seriously educate yourself, strop accepting this low hanging fruit and save until you can get some real training. I will be happy to provide you some resources by PM.

You are becoming your own worst enemy. We see it here all the time, guys that turn to the internet for what they think is education. As Danny said, you are exactly who these guys are targeting and you are buying into all of their marketing and hype.

Real professional, working hypnotists don't touch this nonsense with a ten-foot pole.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 16, 2019 06:53AM)
[quote]On Jul 16, 2019, ahimsa42 wrote:
[quote]On Jul 15, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
You're not trying to understand hypnosis. You are trying to understand other people's motivation. You are looking in the wrong place and getting scared. [/quote]

i guess I don't understand the difference since hypnosis is supposed to be something one does to themselves rather than something which is done to them would not that make them the same thing? [/quote]

No, again this is wrong. One doesn't do it to themselves, they allow it to occur. They do their part or role in the process. Again, you are taking what you read and creating your own context. That's what they mean when you hear them say all hypnosis is self-hypnosis. All it means is you are in control, you must allow it to happen. You have to be willing to allow your role in the process. You must be willing to accept the suggestion. You = Self. If not, the greatest hypnotists on earth won't be able to hypnotize you.

Only then, once you have allowed yourself to accept your role and allow yourself to accept suggestion, THEN you can provide yourself with your own suggestions (self-hypnosis). (There I just save dyou the $50-$100 of the course you were going to take.)
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 16, 2019 10:32AM)
Yea this is me giving up. He is a troll plain and simple. Nobody could possibly be that ignorant. He has an agenda and is pushing it.
Message: Posted by: ahimsa42 (Jul 16, 2019 05:02PM)
Thanks Mindpro. the seminar I mentioned is only $35 but I think you have talked me out of going. I would be interested in the resources you offered to send me via PM. I can assure you that despite Danny's opinion to the contrary, I am not in any way a troll. I don't even know what kind of agenda could be achieved by simply asking questions.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 17, 2019 10:09AM)
If you are not trolling why won't you accept information given to you? You keep pouring forth this ridiculous agenda or just belief that is wrong.

If you are not a troll and the very idea odd someone willfully embarrassing themselves bothers you SO much then reality TV must have you curled up in a fetal position crying. Or is it just when you perceive it happening in a hypnosis show that gets to you?

Facebook and You Tube must really cause you fits with everyone embarrassing themselves in front of potentially billions huh?

But no you reserve your problem for only hypnosis shows, which brings me to my troll conclusion.

If not then it is possible you have issues that can not be solved by anyone here.

You accept the most ridiculous nonsense ad if it were somehow fact and try to refute absolute fact with urban legend and nonsense. It is incredible.
Message: Posted by: Wravyn (Jul 17, 2019 04:31PM)
The words of wisdom shared by both Mindpro and Dannydoyle is probably what's covered in the first 5 or 6 hours of a live hypnosis course. What hypnosis is and isn't. Dispelling the myths propagated by those that have an agenda, either to make a fast buck on unknowing persons or instill fear on those that are a part of a religious congregation.

To both Danny and Mindpro, thank you for sharing.
Message: Posted by: ahimsa42 (Jul 17, 2019 05:34PM)
[quote]On Jul 17, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
If you are not trolling why won't you accept information given to you? You keep pouring forth this ridiculous agenda or just belief that is wrong.

If you are not a troll and the very idea odd someone willfully embarrassing themselves bothers you SO much then reality TV must have you curled up in a fetal position crying. Or is it just when you perceive it happening in a hypnosis show that gets to you?

Facebook and You Tube must really cause you fits with everyone embarrassing themselves in front of potentially billions huh?

But no you reserve your problem for only hypnosis shows, which brings me to my troll conclusion.

If not then it is possible you have issues that can not be solved by anyone here.

You accept the most ridiculous nonsense ad if it were somehow fact and try to refute absolute fact with urban legend and nonsense. It is incredible. [/quote]

i can safely say that I do find reality shows extremely cringe worthy and have never watched them. I think it is the combination of seemingly involuntary, unconscious compulsion combined with the embarrassment factor which sets me off on this subject.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 17, 2019 07:53PM)
Yea so you have an agenda like all trolls. Now at least you have admitted it.

Although ironically enough it should bother you that I was able to manipulate you so easily into doing so.

No hypnosis needed. Which should be an object lesson about hypnosis itself.
Message: Posted by: ahimsa42 (Jul 17, 2019 08:53PM)
I don't see it that way & I'm still confused about what agenda you think I have admitted to by answering your questions honestly.

no worries though & no hard feelings. I appreciate Mindpro's input & suggestions and I won't "bother" anyone here again. unlike you, when I say I'm done I'm really done.

take care.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 17, 2019 10:04PM)
Whew.