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Topic: Help and Suggestions on transferring a signature
Message: Posted by: Laughing (Aug 22, 2019 07:59AM)
I have been working on a trans-positional effect with 2 spectators and would like to hear any suggestions for getting a signature from one card to another, if this is possible?

The plot:
I have 2 spectators and each selects a card and it is signed and placed in front of them. Spec 1 picks the 2 of diamonds, signs it, and I lay an unsigned 4 of diamonds in front of them.

I force a duplicate 4 of diamonds on spectator 2, have them sign the 4 and lay the previously signed 2 of diamonds in front of them.

So spec 1 has an unsigned 4 of diamonds, spec 2 has spec 1's signed 2 of diamonds and I have the signed 4 of diamonds.

The reveal:
As I turn over spec 1's unsigned 4 of diamonds I transfer the signature to it (this was spec 2's card) I then get spec 2 to turn over their own signed 2 (spec 1's signed card).

The problem:

I could do a top change for spec 1 replacing the unsigned 4 with the signed 4, however I want to just place my hand under the unsigned 4 and transfer the signature of spec 2 to the unsigned card.

The reason for this is I could get the 2 spectators to sign the back of the cards once placed in front of them which would disallow the top change.

So I guess I am looking for an invisible, peelable material that I can get someone to sign, peel it from one card and replace it on another card.

Any ideas?

Many thanks

Allan
Message: Posted by: jimgerrish (Aug 22, 2019 09:52AM)
[quote]On Aug 22, 2019, Laughing wrote:
if this is possible?
[/quote]

I don't believe your complicated plot is possible. If I saw my signature turn up on a card I know I didn't sign, I would grab it and your plastic feke would be history. However, if I walk up to spectator A and he signs the back of a freely selected card, which I shuffle into the deck,and I then go to spectator B who chooses a different card, freely selected, and signs it on the back after which it is shuffled into the deck, and then I hand the deck to spectator C who fans through the deck looking for the two signed cards, finds them and hands them back to the spectators to discover that each person signed the back of the other person's card... THAT IS possible given standard moves known to most card magicians.
Message: Posted by: Laughing (Aug 22, 2019 10:33AM)
Jim, thanks for the reply. I know what you are suggesting is possible and it is a fair facsimile of what I am trying to achieve. It's the impossibility of the transposition as I described I am trying to achieve, All that said I do quite like the similar effect you describe.

I take your point about the spectator closely examining the transposed signature and finding the gimmick. I also considered using whiteboard markers to remove the signature afterwards so there is nothing to examine, but I couldn't plot that effectively.

I do have a possible solution to this that uses a card switch. I tenkai palm the second signed card, and during the turnover of spectator 1's card I switch the cards. Same solution as a top change which means the backs cannot be signed as well as the fronts.

Maybe I am asking for "real magic". When thinking of tricks I usually start with something, seemingly impossible, and back track from that to get as close to the desired illusion as possible.

Again thanks for your inputs, very much appreciated, and perhaps I can do something with your idea and get the faces signed also.

Allan
Message: Posted by: jimgerrish (Aug 22, 2019 10:48AM)
There's always challenging the spectator to sign the front of his card while blindfolded.
Message: Posted by: Laughing (Aug 22, 2019 10:58AM)
Like it Jim, or better yet leave the 2 spectators blindfolded for the whole routine and let the audience play along, ala penn & teller I guess. Thanks for making me smile.
Message: Posted by: Drylid (Aug 22, 2019 01:03PM)
Clone is a good tool for this. Expensive but transfers signatures easily.
Message: Posted by: Laughing (Aug 22, 2019 04:48PM)
Drylid I looked for this on murphys magic and vanishing inc and couldn't find it, would you know where I could get this device?

Many thanks.
Message: Posted by: Drylid (Aug 22, 2019 04:51PM)
Https://www.ellusionist.com/clone.html
Message: Posted by: Laughing (Aug 22, 2019 06:50PM)
Thanks Drylid, mixed reviews and you're right it is expensive! The second factor for me is the gimmick takes time to duplicate the signature and I believe the gimmick is inside a wallet so perhaps not suitable for the effect I was trying to achieve.

Thanks for finding it for me though, always good to know.

Allan
Message: Posted by: Drylid (Aug 23, 2019 02:56AM)
The wallet isn't needed. Time is like 2 min max. I use it daily with just a deck of cards
Message: Posted by: Laughing (Aug 23, 2019 03:58AM)
Cool drylid. Could the device be used in the hand on say a face down card also held in the hand? If that is the case a little time misdirection may work.
Message: Posted by: TomB (Aug 23, 2019 06:49AM)
I have ideas, but most are not practical.

I have heard of digital playing cards now. I don't own any of them, so I am working in theory here. Once digital, any signature on them can be saved and transferred to any other playing card.

Ignoring sci-fi. If carbon paper works, you can transfer a signature as well. A ball point pen and a thinner card would be best.

Ok but you went a sharpie and original signature. In that case, I would add some extra trickery. Maybe a special table with rectangles drawn on the felt where to put the card. The table does some secret transfers. So they put the card down. You put a large envelope over it. The card secretly drops down and switches places under the table. When the envelope is lifted, the card is swapped.

Back to your original idea. There are protective screens for phones and such that could be cut to playing card sizes. Use some double sided tape to have it hold in place. Size wise just use the middle square on a back of bicycle to hide edges. It should look perfect when flat, Then you bend the card and remove the plastic covering. Pop it on the other card. Should be easy to make and work out well.
Message: Posted by: Drylid (Aug 23, 2019 04:27PM)
Yes it can, when you buy the item, the included download is helpful for a way to set this up inside your deck of cards. You do have to be creative though.
Message: Posted by: TomB (Aug 25, 2019 05:10AM)
I was able to find a good carbon paper transfer.

It is in Encyclopedia of Card Tricks by Jean Hugard. The trick in the book is telepathic selection, but originally is credited to James Maxwell who wrote about in March 1920 in the Magic Wand.

This one is nice as the carbon paper is actually in the card itself.
Message: Posted by: Laughing (Aug 27, 2019 04:44AM)
Drylid, Tom, thanks for your input. Drylid, at the minute I cannot come up with a justification for taking the first spectators card back to get the signature transferred. I'll give that a think. I was sorta thinking of a second signed card trick, where one happens early on, then a couple more tricks... Nah too easy to back track.


Tom I am assuming there is a self mase gimmick in Encyclopedia of card tricks for the carbon paper in the card?

I may well go and kindle that now. Oh and look I just turned a proper noun into a verb!

Thanks guys
Message: Posted by: TomB (Aug 27, 2019 04:53AM)
Yep
Message: Posted by: Laughing (Aug 28, 2019 04:28AM)
Thank you so much folks, between the three of you I now have a solution to this problem. As with most effects, you start with the near impossible and end up with a working routine that gets close. I have used a bit from all the posts and a bit of my own thinking. Let me know what you think of this effect.

There is a gimmick, I will have to look it up which allows you to put 1 spectators card in a tuck case and one on top, then switch them. I can't remember the name of the gimmick but when I was researching I think it was 30 bucks for my American cousins, and, well with brexit about 30 pounds for my Uk compatriots.

Anyway, Spectator 1 "chooses" the 4 of diamonds, but signs the back of the 2 of diamonds, spectator 2 chooses the 2 of diamonds but signs the back of the 4 of diamonds - I am sure I don't have to describe how this would be achieved! Using the tuck case gimmick above I place one of the cards in the case, showing only the signed back, I hold the other card back up against the tuck case. With a flick of the wrist it will appear as if the signatures have swapped places, as the cards are face down through-out. You can now reveal that the signatures have indeed swapped cards.

I know it is easy to get over-invested in your own creation, what do you guys think of this effect? I can do it for 30 dollars which is a bonus, and I think it is fooling to a layman.

Finally, I do mean thank you, this place is great for ideas and the help that people give so freely. Yep you have to ignore some of the !@#$%ing that goes on, but by and large the main thing I get from this forum is a genuine interest in helping, particularly with those new to the craft.
Message: Posted by: TomB (Aug 30, 2019 06:10AM)
Why even deal with the tuck case? After they have them signed, have them put their hand on top of the card. Then with some mentalist connection patter say the card will change to what the other person was thinking of. They remove their hand and flip it over.

Alternatively, just put the two cards back in the deck and shuffle them. Then give them some patter. Then with the cards face up, they look for their card. Then they flip it over and the signatures have flipped.
Message: Posted by: Laughing (Aug 31, 2019 12:14PM)
Tom I get what you are saying, and the mechanism you suggest is very similar (identical) to my mechanism, however, the effect I am after, from the spectators perspective is .... How the hell, I know spectator B never signed this card, because it was under my hand before he was give a sharpie!

I am after a very specific effect for the viewer(s).

This opens up an argument method v effect, I know, I know.

I may well take your ideas and do something for them. I have all these ideas in my notebook.. Which is why I said thanks
Message: Posted by: Frank Yuen (Sep 2, 2019 02:01PM)
I'm not sure you are describing your effect clearly. Are you trying to transfer the signatures so that the end result is that spectator 1's card has spectator 2's signature and vice versa?

As written it just sounds like your normal two card transposition and you are wanting to know how to end up with spectator 2's signed card in front of spectator 1 (right now it is the same card but not signed). If your description is accurate, all you need to do is flip over the card in front of spectator 1 with spectator 2's actual card (you have it on top of the deck) and use a Mexican Turnover. Your duplicate is not even necessary. Not saying that it is the best solution but it will certainly work.
Message: Posted by: Laughing (Sep 4, 2019 11:31AM)
Frank you are probably right in as much as I am not describing the required effect very well. You are also right the first spectator picks a card, signs it and it is placed in front of them, and not touched by the performer until the reveal. During the reveal, spec 2's signature should be on that card that hadn't been touched. The mexican turnover may well work.
Message: Posted by: TomB (Sep 5, 2019 01:38AM)
This is not quite what you are looking for, as it's only one persons signature on two cards.

You can try something like the Staniforth switch. I modified business cards with jokers.

You bring out a deck of cards. You grab out the two identical jokers.
You draw a 1 and a 2 and circle them.
The spectator signs both cards. You show that those are the only two jokers in the world with his signature.
The spectator holds one card in his hand. Say the one with number 1 circled.
You hold the other.
Magic boom. You now have the joker with number 1 circled. He opens his hands and has the number 2 circled.