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Topic: How fast do you learn?
Message: Posted by: TeddyBoy (Aug 30, 2019 09:06AM)
I am curious if new or "newish" members could approximate how many new tricks/effects they learn in a 12 month period? I mean really learn so that when you go out for a beer you won't embarrass yourself in front of the lady sitting next to you.

I am asking b/c my learning rate is so darn slow it is becoming a burden that I am tired trying to overcome. I would like to know how I compare.
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Aug 30, 2019 10:41AM)
Comparison is impossible, honestly. It comes down to each person, and on top of that, each individual skill.

There are things I could do proficiently the first time I tried it, there are things I am barely able to do after years of off and on practice. Each new skill, trick, or routine will present its challenges to you. It's just up to you whether you want to put the work into getting proficient at them. The rate doesn't matter - just work at it until it's right.
Message: Posted by: Laughing (Aug 30, 2019 10:56AM)
TeddyBoy I can only talk about myself. First up I play guitar which does mean I have strong fingers in my left hand and both hands were quite dextrious before I started magic 2.5 years ago.

I can perform the mechanics of the basic sleights, some I found easier than others. Tricks, that's a difficult one because you could learn a DL/DT a control and the KC principal and have hundreds of tricks.

After 2.5 years I can do an invisible DPS, but interestingly still can't do a pressure fan.

When practicing a sleight I will initially, whilst developing muscle memory, watch tv and repeat the sleight over and over. Perhaps an hour at a time. This doesn't perfect a sleight, it develops the muscle strength and flexibility.

After 2.5 years I can perform about 20 effects of which, maybe 12 or so I would describe as entertaining and somewhat polished.

Hope this helps. Stick with it
Message: Posted by: ryanshaw9572 (Aug 30, 2019 11:06AM)
It all varies. Showmanship comes with experience. Experience comes by experiencing so just do it!
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Aug 30, 2019 11:55AM)
[quote]On Aug 30, 2019, ryanshaw9572 wrote:
It all varies. Showmanship comes with experience. Experience comes by experiencing so just do it! [/quote]

Some people are just naturally, have showmanship!
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Aug 30, 2019 12:00PM)
[quote]On Aug 30, 2019, Laughing wrote:
TeddyBoy I can only talk about myself. First up I play guitar which does mean I have strong fingers in my left hand and both hands were quite dextrious before I started magic 2.5 years ago.

I can perform the mechanics of the basic sleights, some I found easier than others. Tricks, that's a difficult one because you could learn a DL/DT a control and the KC principal and have hundreds of tricks.

After 2.5 years I can do an invisible DPS, but interestingly still can't do a pressure fan.

When practicing a sleight I will initially, whilst developing muscle memory, watch tv and repeat the sleight over and over. Perhaps an hour at a time. This doesn't perfect a sleight, it develops the muscle strength and flexibility.

After 2.5 years I can perform about 20 effects of which, maybe 12 or so I would describe as entertaining and somewhat polished.

Hope this helps. Stick with it [/quote]

A magician does not perform EFFECTS! EFFECTS ARE WHAT THE SPECTATOR PERCEIVES!

A magician performs TRICKS. The TRICKS may APPEAR to be MAGIC, depending on the PRESENTATION AND SHOWMANSHIP OF THE PERFORMER.
Message: Posted by: Laughing (Aug 30, 2019 12:29PM)
[quote]On Aug 30, 2019, Dick Oslund wrote:
[quote]On Aug 30, 2019, Laughing wrote:
TeddyBoy I can only talk about myself. First up I play guitar which does mean I have strong fingers in my left hand and both hands were quite dextrious before I started magic 2.5 years ago.

I can perform the mechanics of the basic sleights, some I found easier than others. Tricks, that's a difficult one because you could learn a DL/DT a control and the KC principal and have hundreds of tricks.

After 2.5 years I can do an invisible DPS, but interestingly still can't do a pressure fan.

When practicing a sleight I will initially, whilst developing muscle memory, watch tv and repeat the sleight over and over. Perhaps an hour at a time. This doesn't perfect a sleight, it develops the muscle strength and flexibility.

After 2.5 years I can perform about 20 effects of which, maybe 12 or so I would describe as entertaining and somewhat polished.

Hope this helps. Stick with it [/quote]

A magician does not perform EFFECTS! EFFECTS ARE WHAT THE SPECTATOR PERCEIVES!

A magician performs TRICKS. The TRICKS may APPEAR to be MAGIC, depending on the PRESENTATION AND SHOWMANSHIP OF THE PERFORMER. [/quote]

You are of course, correct Dick
Message: Posted by: ryanshaw9572 (Aug 30, 2019 12:33PM)
Even those that have “natural showmanship” need to work on showmanship!
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Aug 30, 2019 12:47PM)
Some more than others.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Aug 30, 2019 01:21PM)
[quote]On Aug 30, 2019, WitchDocChris wrote:
Comparison is impossible, honestly. It comes down to each person, and on top of that, each individual skill.

There are things I could do proficiently the first time I tried it, there are things I am barely able to do after years of off and on practice. Each new skill, trick, or routine will present its challenges to you. It's just up to you whether you want to put the work into getting proficient at them. The rate doesn't matter - just work at it until it's right. [/quote]

Rather well said!

Learning skills, the "mechanics", for some, is relatively easy. For others, it may be very challenging.

Some skills may be more difficult. Much, also, depends on the "teacher"! (book, video, personal mentor, or ?_

I always explain that, I can't TEACH you! I can only HELP YOU LEARN, 'cuz, LEARNING IS AN ACTIVE, NOT PASSIVE "PROCESS".
e
The 1-2-1 rope trick is "ultra" easy. It's "automatic". I could do it the first time.

The Professor's Nightmare was "difficult" (partly, 'cuz I didn't like the "set up move"._ THEN Karrell Fox, realized that the set up move for Gen Grant's "Perfect" Cut & Restored Rope, would "do the trick"! I've done it for 40 years!

The classic story on tricks is: A young lad says to the old timer, "I know how 100 tricks are DONE!" The old timer says, "I know how to DO six tricks!

And, I know how to DO them, so they ENTERTAIN people!"

Putting a new trick in one's act requires three "things":

1, Learn how the trick is DONE.

2. Learn how to DO it.

3. Figure out how to DO it, SO THAT IT ENTERTAINS AN AUDIENCE!!!
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Aug 30, 2019 01:44PM)
So much depends on who you're learning from!!!
Message: Posted by: Drylid (Aug 30, 2019 04:37PM)
[quote]

After 2.5 years I can do an invisible DPS, but interestingly still can't do a pressure fan.

[/quote]

I feel your pain!
Message: Posted by: Drylid (Aug 30, 2019 04:39PM)
[quote]

A magician does not perform EFFECTS! EFFECTS ARE WHAT THE SPECTATOR PERCEIVES!

A magician performs TRICKS. The TRICKS may APPEAR to be MAGIC, depending on the PRESENTATION AND SHOWMANSHIP OF THE PERFORMER. [/quote]

You are of course, correct Dick [/quote]

Technically, according to the definition..we perform special effects by practical means...
Message: Posted by: Laughing (Aug 31, 2019 12:00PM)
Drylid, also you are correct "Infinite are the arguments of mages" which I think Ursula Le Guin coined in Wizard of Earthsea. I read this in an English Class in about 1978 and still love the book to this day.

Oh yeah and I don't remember sparrowhawk doing a pressure fan!
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Sep 1, 2019 12:18AM)
[quote]On Aug 30, 2019, Harry Lorayne wrote:
So much depends on who you're learning from!!! [/quote]

Right Harry!

NEMO DAT QUOD NON HABET! (No one can give what he does not have!)

If I remember correctly, Didn't YOU have "something" to "do" with "Volume Seven" ??? (and, a "few" other books?!?) (heehee)
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Sep 1, 2019 12:30AM)
[quote]On Aug 30, 2019, Drylid wrote:
[quote]

A magician does not perform EFFECTS! EFFECTS ARE WHAT THE SPECTATOR PERCEIVES!

A magician performs TRICKS. The TRICKS may APPEAR to be MAGIC, depending on the PRESENTATION AND SHOWMANSHIP OF THE PERFORMER. [/quote]

You are of course, correct Dick [/quote]

Technically, according to the definition..we perform special effects by practical means... [/quote]

Whose definition?

We perform TRICKS, which, if our PRESENTATION IS GOOD (AND ENTERTAINING) CREATES A "MAGICAL" EFFECT.

Dariel Fitskee "identified" NINETEEN EFFECTS, when he wrote, "The Trick Brain", in 1945.
Message: Posted by: Drylid (Sep 1, 2019 12:15PM)
The definition for the different meanings of effect. Websters 2nd one for effect. In special effects the word is used to both represent what is seen and how it is made. *ex gf is a practical effects artist and that's what school taught*
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Sep 1, 2019 12:26PM)
Yes, Dick, if you're referring to Tarbell #7, I did have "something to do with it"!!
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Sep 2, 2019 05:43AM)
Right Harry!

I was just teasing a bit! Just the indexing of #7 was such a monumental task, that I can't even begin to think about it!

With Jon Racherbaumer's kvetching, I've written ONE book. I can't even IMAGINE the work that you have accomplished!

Thank you for doing what you have done!!!

L'Chaim!
Message: Posted by: TeddyBoy (Sep 2, 2019 09:42AM)
Thanks for (almost) answering my question.
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Sep 2, 2019 04:48PM)
To directly answer your question - in the past 12 months I've learned 2 routines that weren't just variations of previous material of mine, to performance level.
Message: Posted by: TeddyBoy (Sep 2, 2019 09:36PM)
Thanks Christopher.
Message: Posted by: Mike.Bonner (Sep 3, 2019 05:26AM)
[quote]On Aug 30, 2019, TeddyBoy wrote:
I am curious if new or "newish" members could approximate how many new tricks/effects they learn in a 12 month period? I mean really learn so that when you go out for a beer you won't embarrass yourself in front of the lady sitting next to you.

I am asking b/c my learning rate is so darn slow it is becoming a burden that I am tired trying to overcome. I would like to know how I compare. [/quote]

Hi Teddyboy,

I am a new learner and have only been practicing for 10 months so far.

I have a table that I complete for each trick I am learning. In this table I have different columns: Origins and history of the effect, sleights/moves to learn, patter, angles, ending clean, crowd reactions and other. I do this to consider what I need to work on, the strength of the trick.

- I can't give you a direct number of how many I have learnt, as there are some I consider I have, but wouldn't use as they don't suite my style / I haven't figured out how to make them fit with my style.
- I would say that as a new learner, I am always reflecting on how to improve e.g. I didn't like the Hindu force for the 'Chicago opener', so I am considering ways of doing this differently and found an alternative method based upon my research into the effect and other performances (thank you Whit 'pop' Haydn). This is a reason I am uncertain how many I consider knowing, but I guess there needs to be a cut off of being good enough but still having room for improvement.
- I would advise to focus on a few tricks and do them well, rather than get overwhelmed by how many you know. This was advice that was given to me and I can say that it has improved the strength of the limited number of tricks I perform.

Keep working hard, it may feel like a burden but I am sure there will be a time that your magic improves at a faster rate, the more you practice and become familiar with different sleights and methods.

All the best,

Mike