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Topic: Fantastic Lady Magician
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Nov 28, 2019 10:18AM)
Here is an example of a very good Female magician, Miss Shkoliarenko - illusion and manipulation “Cinema”

Watch and learn.


[youtube]_yj8HE5HuhM[/youtube]
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Nov 29, 2019 11:25AM)
Wow!!! Talented! What a performer! Thanks!

Doug
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Nov 29, 2019 11:47AM)
Yes, and look at those gams. What style and artistry.
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Nov 29, 2019 12:46PM)
A woman's legs are great misdirection...fact
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Nov 29, 2019 12:54PM)
I know, I had a hard time rewatching her steals. She was really proficient with the steals. Can't believe how she put them together so fast, on the color change production.

It show she worked very hard at perfection.

I think that is an indoor circus show.

The only thing is why the men assistants did not do anything. They could have at least opened the door to the cabinet for her.
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Dec 1, 2019 08:02AM)
[quote]On Nov 29, 2019, Bill Hegbli wrote:
It shows she worked very hard at perfection.[/quote]

That is as perfect as one could want. The appearing canes really added to it. Color. Amazing...

Doug
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Dec 1, 2019 10:32AM)
Yes, that first cane really surprised me, I believe because of the arm movement across the body.
Message: Posted by: danaruns (Dec 13, 2019 03:41PM)
I'm glad you guys enjoyed it, but I didn't think it was anything special. And I thought the steals were obvious. And the quick changes not so quick. And the magic not so magical. Maybe it was because I was watching her work rather than her "gams." I was hoping that if she had a tutu on, that there would at least be a bunch of props hidden in there that she would produce, but no. Just another friggin tutu. But again, I'm glad you liked it.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Dec 13, 2019 06:48PM)
Dana, I have to disagree with you, that is superior magic act, and the appearing cane was a total surprise. The 8 foot cane was good as well. She did a lot of steals that you must have missed. They were perfect Fan productions. I suggest you study her act and movements, you might learn something about showmanship.
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Dec 14, 2019 04:27PM)
I agree with Dana 100%.

There is nothing special here. Every steal is actually quite clearly telegraphed. I mean, as long as you're not staring at her skin.

This reminds me of the stage magic specials that used to air in the 80s - the ones that always left me thinking, "Ok so when are they going to do some magic?"
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Dec 14, 2019 06:24PM)
@ WitchdocChris, you just exposed that you have not idea what stage magic is. Jeff McBride has a school to teach you what a good magic act is.
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Dec 15, 2019 12:24PM)
Ignoring your blatantly disrespectful and condescending tone, I grew up in the 80s and 90s with stage magic specials coming on TV somewhat regularly. My most prominent memory of those specials was waiting for the performers to stop playing around with cards behind their hands and boxes that have tricksy stuff in them and do something magical. I had a very similar feeling about this video - I kept waiting for these super slick steals to happen and instead I saw every single one.

So if I don't know what stage magic is, and I saw every single steal - how did you miss them if you're so knowledgeable on the subject?

You can ignore the feedback and get defensive, or you can acknowledge that much of what's out there is not actually magical or even deceptive. There's great stage magic out there - this video is not an example of it.
Message: Posted by: danaruns (Dec 15, 2019 10:49PM)
[quote]On Dec 13, 2019, Bill Hegbli wrote:
Dana, I have to disagree with you, that is superior magic act, and the appearing cane was a total surprise. The 8 foot cane was good as well. She did a lot of steals that you must have missed. They were perfect Fan productions. I suggest you study her act and movements, you might learn something about showmanship. [/quote]

What an arrogant and condescending jerk you're being. I think the one who has some learning to do is you. I was going to explain it, and and tell you about learning how to do all those moves invisibly at the Chavez studio long ago and where this video goes wrong, but you've ****ed me off and I'm not inclined to waste the education on you. Bye, Felicia.
Message: Posted by: Intrepid (Dec 16, 2019 04:41AM)
Looking at her hands, and only her hands, I find her moves to all be quick, crisp, smooth and well timed. Only on the fan production was there a slight lingering, but nothing that I see that justifies these negative comments. Please point out by time stamp the specific moves that bother you so I can understand why you do not feel her performance was good enough, and how she might of performed the moves better. Thank you.
Message: Posted by: Alyx (Dec 16, 2019 08:18AM)
I think she is reasonably mechanically skilled, but it is very dated. Not particularly entertaining and not relevant in today's world.

My primary beef is that the act reinforces the patriarchical view of what a man thinks a woman is or what her magic should be. My 2 cents.
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Dec 16, 2019 09:00AM)
[quote]On Dec 16, 2019, Intrepid wrote:
Looking at her hands, and only her hands, I find her moves to all be quick, crisp, smooth and well timed. Only on the fan production was there a slight lingering, but nothing that I see that justifies these negative comments. Please point out by time stamp the specific moves that bother you so I can understand why you do not feel her performance was good enough, and how she might of performed the moves better. Thank you. [/quote]

0:34

0:38

1:07

2:08 (Flimsy closet, door blows open every time the other one is shut - this happens every time so I won't point out the other ones)

2:30

2:34

2:48

3:51 (already holding the big appearing cane clearly in right hand, can be seen fidgeting with it)

Pretty much every issue can be summed up by the fact that she more or less stops moving every time she does a steal, then starts moving again. That's what I mean when I say she telegraphs. For the third fan, for example, she's dancing around, then transfers the white fan to the other hand behind the black fan, reaches below the fans to steal the next one, then produces the red behind the black.

The problem is that the transfer of the fan to the other hand and the steal, all while standing more or less still, makes it obvious she's doing something.
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Dec 16, 2019 10:56AM)
I watched it again. I found it delightful. Then again, I do [i]try[/i] to see the [i]best[/i] in everything...

:)

Doug
Message: Posted by: danaruns (Dec 16, 2019 05:28PM)
[quote]On Dec 16, 2019, Alyx wrote:
I think she is reasonably mechanically skilled, but it is very dated. Not particularly entertaining and not relevant in today's world.

My primary beef is that the act reinforces the patriarchical view of what a man thinks a woman is or what her magic should be. My 2 cents. [/quote]

Yeah, that was my primary beef, too, but I've learned not to bring that up with these men.
Message: Posted by: Intrepid (Dec 17, 2019 04:40AM)
Chris,
I truly appreciate your reply. I take it there wasn't one seal or production you thought was well executed since you listed each and every one as bothering you, or am I wrong on this point. Perhaps a better question would be if there were any manipulation techniques you did like. I appreciate that you clearly did take the time to give a studied and sincere reply. Thanks.

As a point of reference, my own assessment of her act is from the perspective of an amateur/student of stage manipulation, but never a working pro. So my eye for detail is not as well trained as the many working magicians on the Café. This is probably best illustrated by the fact that even after multiple views of her performance, I'm still impressed by her quick, crisp, smooth and well timed execution of each move. This is one of the few cane acts that I can recall that the production wasn't drawn out at the agonizing seed and grace of a slow moving zombie performing magic. The moves, as best I could tell, were quick, clean and well executed to a degree that I know I could never achieve myself.

The first one at 0:34 I thought was quite clever and very smoothly executed. Having planted her hand in plain view at the front edge of the chair she simply pivoted to the side to accomplish the steal. Similar to a standing pivot steal, but with no noticeable movement of the arm or shoulder as is common. That move at 0:34 may be well known to you, but I have to admit that it was new to me, and even after multiple view it still looks like a very clean and well executed steal with virtually no independent movement of the arm or shoulder. The other aspect of this and the one at 1:07 (and really the whole act) is timing. Perhaps the reason why I admire good timing so much, is because it's the one area that caused me the greatest struggles when I was trying to learn stage manipulation. The manipulations themselves I could do, and I worked through the entire Chavez course, but without a truly musical sense of timing, a stage act only looks awkward at best. Some people have it and some don't. But I admire those that do and do it with great skill. I'd be very happy if I had half the talent she has in this regard. The fan steals in my humble opinion where not as cleanly executed, but infinitely better than my best effort with standing pivot steals. The last production of the white fan I thought was quick, sharp and cleanly executed. And after watching it a couple of times realized that it was a repeat production of the same white fan from before. Brilliant in its pure simplicity and economy. I love that kind of thinking!

Just to be clear, the point of writing all of this isn't to say I'm right and your wrong or to push an ideology, as is often the case on the Café, but rather a sincere interest in exchanging viewpoints and learning from the insights of others. Thank you

P.S. I looked up The Kiev Municipal Academy of Variety and Circus Arts and it is a Ukrainian institution of higher education, training stage and circus performers. The video gives credit to her teacher, choreographer and director. The video we saw was probably the graduation performances. The flimsy change room I suspect was simply a byproduct of the one time production of this act.
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Dec 17, 2019 08:16AM)
By planting her hand in the front of the chair first, that telegraphed the steal when she moved her hand. Look at that tutu. There's no reason to put her hand to the back of the chair (And have to work through all that tulle to find the chair) other than if she had to grab something.

While the action of the steal itself may have been smooth, the moment before pretty much every steal gave it away because she changed how she was moving in an obvious way. This is the result of practicing each segment in isolation and not enough time rehearsing the whole act to make it flow together. Jugglers and fire dancers do a similar thing where they don't put enough practice into transitioning between tricks so there's little pauses as they mentally set up for the next part.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Dec 18, 2019 09:15AM)
She did do a good job. Her act will be better if she improved in a few things.

I feel her audience will give her an A+. But some magicians are bringing down her rating because they know what to watch for.
Message: Posted by: garyogden1957 (Jan 23, 2020 05:13AM)
[quote]On Dec 13, 2019, danaruns wrote:
I'm glad you guys enjoyed it, but I didn't think it was anything special. And I thought the steals were obvious. And the quick changes not so quick. And the magic not so magical. Maybe it was because I was watching her work rather than her "gams." I was hoping that if she had a tutu on, that there would at least be a bunch of props hidden in there that she would produce, but no. Just another friggin tutu. But again, I'm glad you liked it. [/quote]

There's always one isn't there?
Message: Posted by: Gerald Blankenship (Jan 28, 2020 05:16PM)
This lady has worked very hard to perfect this routine. Yes her quick change was a little slow but it worked. As for the rest we see her move sometimes as we know what is going on, however she probably has to perform several times a day which can be exhausting so we all would slow down a bit. She is doing a very energetic routine and anyone can slip now and again. I think she is a real trooper and did very well. My message to all the ladies out there "YOU GO GIRLS" don't let anyone stop you.
Message: Posted by: Dave Scribner (Jan 29, 2020 02:34PM)
I watched the videos without sound. I thought it was hard to tell if her main concern was magic or auditioning as a dancer. A little movement is fine but after the first cane production, which as witchdoctor pointed out as an obvious steal, she spent way too much time just dancing around with it. Next effect was an appearing cane. The steal was obvious to me. It was quite clear that she picked up something besides the silk. The "quick costume" changes were anything but quick. No real magic there. Before the fan production, why put on the coat? Seemed obvious to me she needed the coat to get the steal and there was no magic with the fan production. Another slow costume change and she comes out with a fan already set to change to silks. More dancing. Finally a costume change coming out to produce a cane. No steal involved and clearly something in her hand. Sorry Bill, it was no where near 8 ft in length.I was expecting the steals to be made from the tutu which provided plenty of cover for everything she did with the canes.

At the same time, I think her ideas were good, just needed to polished especially the timing of the costume changes. Overall just a so so act but nothing special to make it stand out.
Message: Posted by: The Mighty Fool (Feb 18, 2020 01:25AM)
Meh.
It was okay & all....but not a whole lotta "oomph" if you ask me.

I mean, canes & fans----she's setting her sights a little low with those props. If that's what youre going to use, you'd better have more to your act than them simply appearing. Even to a non-magician, after the 5th time, the telescoping "appearance" of a cane just isn't going to seem that magical anymore. Not to mention this isn't the sort of thing that plays to a huge audience.

Then there were her quick-changes. Apparently this young lady hasn't seen very many videos of quick-change artistry in magic, or she'd have left that part of her act at home. To be impressive, Q.C. should happen out in the open with only 0.5-2 seconds of visual-blockage. There's nothing magical about going into a changing-room and coming out 4-5 seconds later in an outfit which could easily fit under the one you were just wearing.

Again, I'm not saying it was a BAD show-----I could totally see this act getting hired on a ship or working the street in Vegas.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Feb 18, 2020 01:43PM)
That is what stage manipulation magic is, PRODUCTIONS of objects. Look at Norm Nielsen's Act, Card productions, Coin Productions, Zombie Violin.
Look at Lance Burton, Dove Productions, Card Productions, Candle Productions, and Zombie Floating Ball.

That act was a very hard act to put together and work out. She did an excellent job, and if she performed it for a magician audience, she would have won the contest. but this act was not for magician, but audiences of people that know nothing about magic.

All who picked apart this ladies act, have no knowledge of what a stage magic act is, and have not studied the greats in magic.

Her steals were excellent, and to those that say they seen them is are wrong, sure they came from her body, but you did not see the finger placement or where they came from. You just assume where they came from.

As for the quick change, who said she was doing a quick change of outfits. There is an reason that was not possible, anyone with magic knowledge should know that.

No wonder there is so much hatred of guys in magic by the women trying to join the magic society. With the stupid comments thus far tearing her down in this forum, you all deserve what you get. I am sure not one of you can put together a stage act, anywhere near as good as this ladies.

Lastly, she is working and all of you are not. She is an excellent lady magician. Wish I could see her live performance.