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Topic: Not heckling, but not enjoying
Message: Posted by: imgic (Dec 7, 2019 07:46PM)
In recent thread there was discussion about hecklers, but lately Iíve noticed another issue that Iím not sure how to best deal with.

Iím not a professional, but perform almost weekly at local pub when we go for trivia. It started with our little group of friends, but soon began to perform for other tables. Itís great practice for me and fun.

But Iíve noticed thereís people who get frustrated by not knowing how the tricks work. They donít heckle, but they arenít enjoying themselves because they want to know how itís done.

I work hard to avoid presentations that make me look like Iím putting one over on spectators; no challenge tricks. I try to make them the stars and focus on fun. Perhaps I notice it because one of my fiends in one such person. She huffs at end of routine and asks to see it agin, or started peppering me with questions... once in a blue moon I come across someone at a table similar to that.

David Williamson has a great story in in Penguin Lecture about such a woman at one of his shows. He just kept at it up until he overwhelmed her.

What do you with more experience and knowledge than I do in this situation?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Dec 7, 2019 09:37PM)
My only experience is being paid to work. All the rules are different when you are just doing tricks to do them.
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Dec 8, 2019 02:56AM)
In a casual situation with a friend like that itís best just to leave her be unless she wants you to perform.

I donít know the context but if she is constantly not enjoying it then donít do magic for her. I had a gig today where a lady was very open about not really enjoying it, thatís 100% okay and you move on and donít try to pester them with entertainment they donít care for.

If they arenít going to enjoy themselves by not knowing and you arenít going to tell them your secrets itíd be more respectful to stop.
Message: Posted by: Gerald Deutsch (Dec 8, 2019 09:33AM)
With Perverse Magic you can take the position that you have no idea how it's done.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Dec 8, 2019 10:42AM)
[quote]On Dec 8, 2019, Gerald Deutsch wrote:
With Perverse Magic you can take the position that you have no idea how it's done. [/quote]
Either way with someone determined not to have fun you have the same problem.
Message: Posted by: peppermeat2000 (Dec 12, 2019 10:33PM)
Trying to force someone to like a magic trick when they are obviously dis-interested is like getting someone who hates physical activity to play volleyball at a family reunion. Magicians need to realize a spectrum exists for laymen regarding the enjoyment of watching a magic trick/show.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Dec 12, 2019 11:16PM)
This dynamic exists more so when you just do tricks to do them.
Message: Posted by: imgic (Dec 13, 2019 10:21AM)
Great insight all. Thank you.

I'm not trying to force the woman into liking magic. I don't single her out, and pretty much stopped using her in any routines. But the others in the group like to see the trick of the week, and she's there. So it's just an odd situation.

When I go over to another table, if there's a disinterested person, it's easy enough to work through it an move on.
Message: Posted by: imgic (Dec 13, 2019 10:26AM)
[quote]On Dec 8, 2019, Gerald Deutsch wrote:
With Perverse Magic you can take the position that you have no idea how it's done. [/quote]

I've seen your book and read Jack Shalom's blogs about "Perverse Magic" Great stuff and it's inspired me to incorporate the philosophy into some of my routines. I've put the book on my Christmas wish list,

http://www.lulu.com/shop/http://www.lulu.com/shop/gerald-deutsch/gerald-deutschs-perverse-magic-the-first-sixteen-years/hardcover/product-23962817.html

and think it's great that proceeds go to the Open Heart Magic charity.
Message: Posted by: Pauldelafontaine (Jan 5, 2020 06:53PM)
Some people just wont like your magic! That's the fact! Just don't pick on them or try too hard, they'll probably end up actively disliking you.
Message: Posted by: AnthonyCC (Jan 17, 2020 11:06PM)
If its a one on one situation I will only perform one trick for that person. I usually try to tell a few jokes a lighten the mood with them, it usually helps the situation.

If it is for a group of people, I will begin to play to someone else if I can. I pick whoever is reacting the best to what is happening. I just ignore any negative looks the person gives and don't let it bother me if they completely quit watching the routine. Some people just don't want to have fun!
Message: Posted by: imgic (Jan 21, 2020 10:56AM)
Thanks all for insight. It's not she's negative. She likes to see the magic. She doesn't say "don't" and never is negative or bad mouths my routines. But she doesn't enjoy it...she feels like it's a challenge to her, that she has to figure it out. Even though I'm not presenting it that way.

I still perform weekly at the pub, just keep her on the periphery and have fun with the others...
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jan 21, 2020 04:19PM)
Which is really all you can do.

I had a dog who when we went to the dog park all the dogs in the park loved him and wanted to run with him, except one. For whatever reason he seemed to fixate on that dog! It is a strange fixation LOL. I am NOT comparing you to the dog, just relating a story. I always wondered why he would bother when he had a lot of other dogs who wanted to play with him?

I get the compulsion. It makes sense. It is an artists curse. You are trying to play in your head what you must be doing wrong or could do differently in order for this person to engage and understand what it is you are presenting and ENJOY IT! It just eats at you. If 10,000 people are having fun and one isn't, in our minds that one stands out much louder than the 10,000! Just fight that. You have the solution and have fun with those who want to.

Also consider the following. It is possible that she is having fun the way SHE has fun. It is possible that she internalizes things and doesn't show outward signs of having fun. In truth this is not unlike myself. I tend to be a HORRIBLE audience. I enjoy things, but find myself having to force reactions to not seem like a jerk. Often people are uncomfortable with outward reactions. It might be this and you might find that as she becomes more accustomed with you doing this she may turn.

Either way I think you did it right so keep having fun!
Message: Posted by: Jonmaddgician (Apr 2, 2020 08:23PM)
Perhaps you could use her as an instant stooge? Or let her in on a simple technique that will make her feel like she's "in" on the secret?

Sometimes I even explain something I'm doing, something like Crazy Man's Handcuffs. (Rarely, but in the right situation with the right audience)
Some tricks are almost even more beautiful when you show people how they work (Penn & Teller style), & of course kicker if you have an unexplainable twist at the end.

But yeah I've also come to accept that not everybody likes magic... :/
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Apr 15, 2020 12:25AM)
Worst thing you can do is to make it your mission to make someone enjoy something.
just move on and forget them.

learning to be a pro requires learning to leave and never think about that person again.
if you even give them 2 seconds thought the next day, there's more to learn about being a performer.

Like a comic after a show with a bad crowd. Just forget it and move on.
Message: Posted by: Alan Munro (Apr 17, 2020 09:49AM)
Some people have self-esteem issues and think they must know what's really going on. You won't solve their issues in a few hours, much less a couple of minutes. Move on.
Message: Posted by: imgic (Apr 17, 2020 05:45PM)
If Iím preforming for others than my group of friends, thatís whatI do...move on.

With the person thatís in my group of friends, I just do the routine and have fun. She, and her husband, had been badgering me afterwards, asking me questions, wanting to see again, trying to work the trick backwards. So I found that when Iím done with the trick, I excuse myself to get a drink. By the time I come back., the next round of trivia has started.

Of course itís now been over a month of no trivia..so havenít had to worry about it. On I right side, theyíll have all forgets what Iíve done in last, so all my material will be fresh again...
Message: Posted by: imgic (Apr 18, 2020 11:07PM)
Thanks again everyone for the insight, but itís been put to rest.

If not performing for friends, and somebodyís not interested, I move on.

If performing for my friends and sheís there, I have as much fun with everyone and avoid or deflect her questioning afterwards.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Apr 19, 2020 04:33PM)
If it's people you know, that is slightly different.
you might come up with some very wacky impossible explanation and try to convince them it's done that way.

David Williamson does a routine like that where he shows how "it's done" and it's freaking hilarious and so ridiculous.
Very entertaining if you can find the video clip.

Come to think of it, I think it might have been done at a magic lecture.
As you can imagine people were probably taking notes... and each person stopped as they slowly realized he was just making 5h1t up.

do that and let us know how it goes.
Message: Posted by: Nikodemus (Jun 7, 2020 08:24PM)
Some people just have a problem-solving mentality. It sounds pretty normal to me. When magicians watch a magic performance, aren't they generally all trying to figure out the methods? In fact, isn't that why people take up magic in the first place?
Message: Posted by: Ross W (Sep 1, 2020 10:17AM)
[quote]On Apr 2, 2020, Jonmaddgician wrote:

Sometimes I even explain something I'm doing, something like Crazy Man's Handcuffs. (Rarely, but in the right situation with the right audience)
Some tricks are almost even more beautiful when you show people how they work (Penn & Teller style), & of course kicker if you have an unexplainable twist at the end.

. :/ [/quote]

From the bottom of my heart, please PLEASE don't do this, especially not with CMH which is a staple of mine. Penn & Teller have a rule: they will only ever explain a trick if the explanation is more interesting or funny than the effect itself.

That is emphatically NOT the case with CMH. In explaining how you do it, you are confirming EXACTLY what they suspect MIGHT be happening but cannot see: that you are somehow manipulating the bands. It ruins the magic for them, and hastens the time that one of the greatest close-up tricks ever will become too well-known to perform.

Please stop exposing this trick.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Sep 2, 2020 12:36PM)
+1
Message: Posted by: GlennLawrence (Sep 3, 2020 05:04PM)
+2
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Sep 3, 2020 10:59PM)
Why not just say you can't manage to fool or entertain anyone with Crazy Man's Handcuffs and be done with it?

In reality Penn and Teller expose quite little magic. They claim to expose more than that actually do. Don't use them as an excuse to expose magic please.
Message: Posted by: AnthonyCC (Sep 10, 2020 03:58PM)
Some people will have a tough time with it no matter what you do or say. If I can tell someone is really bothered by it, I will simply tell them," The smarter you are, the harder it is to figure out." This usually gets a smile and helps defuse the situation.
Message: Posted by: imgic (Sep 10, 2020 08:04PM)
[quote]On Sep 10, 2020, AnthonyCC wrote:
Some people will have a tough time with it no matter what you do or say. If I can tell someone is really bothered by it, I will simply tell them," The smarter you are, the harder it is to figure out." This usually gets a smile and helps defuse the situation. [/quote]

I like that...
Message: Posted by: AnthonyCC (Sep 14, 2020 03:11PM)
[quote]On Sep 10, 2020, imgic wrote:
[quote]On Sep 10, 2020, AnthonyCC wrote:
Some people will have a tough time with it no matter what you do or say. If I can tell someone is really bothered by it, I will simply tell them," The smarter you are, the harder it is to figure out." This usually gets a smile and helps defuse the situation. [/quote]

I like that... [/quote]

That is awesome to hear! I hope it helps!