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Topic: Paulís Cold Decking Video
Message: Posted by: Gamblingman007 (Dec 14, 2019 11:16AM)
I read this on another site by Doc regarding Paul Wilsonís teaching video. Do yíall agree with what heís saying or not.

Now regarding ďPaul selling his deck switching video.Ē I think that he is totally wrong for doing so. Why? Please readers I donít mind if you post here and speak your mind to tell me that Iím wrong.

Steve F and I have done these moves for years (expertly) and have never shown the teachings of the move so why is he selling this move or video for $7.00? Doesnít he know that he can get people who does this for real killed. Paul these are life and death moves that you are revealing here for your financial gain.

This is not magic this is for real. If he wants money for doing these moves...he should go to real games and do it because he would be far more richer than selling these moves. He will definitely get more money cheating than he would get selling Steveís techniques for $7.00.

Please readers speak your mind because youíve heard my side of it. If I thought that this was so right I would have posted this many years ago. You see how Todd Lassen stole and sold my N-Stripper technique...will Paul W. do this to Steveís cold decking moves because Steve is the one who showed me these moves over 18 years ago so I know where he got them from.Ē

The Gamblingman007
Message: Posted by: Chris B (Dec 14, 2019 04:08PM)
[quote]On Dec 14, 2019, Gamblingman007 wrote:
I read this on another site by Doc regarding Paul Wilsonís teaching video. Do yíall agree with what heís saying or not. [/quote]

What site is that? I would like to contact Doc, to ask, if he would share his full monte video.

I haven't seen the video in question, but Memphis Jay - who also used to post here - warned him many times, the danger of 'giving game to lame' (i.e., to non hustlers).
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Dec 14, 2019 06:50PM)
Https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic-downloads/card-magic-downloads/ringing-in-a-cooler/

I believe these are the cold deck switches that Gamblingman007 is referring to.

In addition, this link offers other effects by Paul Wilson, some of which have a gambling/cheating "flavor."
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Dec 14, 2019 07:51PM)
[quote]On Dec 14, 2019, Gamblingman007 wrote:

Now regarding "Paul selling his deck switching video." I think that he is totally wrong for doing so...

Steve F and I have done these moves for years (expertly) and have never shown the teachings of the move so why is he selling this move or video for $7.00? Doesn't he know that he can get people who does this for real killed. Paul these are life and death moves that you are revealing here for your financial gain. [/quote]

I am a little confused. Have not you and Steve F been exposing these type moves and methods and making videos of same continually over the years. Why is this different?

[quote]This is not magic this is for real. [/quote]

Are you saying that what you and Steve F have been exposing repeatedly is not "real?"

Just a thought...
Message: Posted by: 5ggg (Dec 15, 2019 02:51PM)
Really curious about who gamblingman007 is...
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Dec 15, 2019 03:08PM)
[quote]On Dec 15, 2019, 5ggg wrote:

Really curious about who gamblingman007 is... [/quote]

I think many on this forum know who he is, or at least what "pen name" he goes under. However, I think it might be better if he answered that question himself.
Message: Posted by: 5ggg (Dec 15, 2019 03:36PM)
Nevermind... makes sense now that I think about it
Message: Posted by: Gamblingman007 (Dec 15, 2019 05:33PM)
[quote]On Dec 14, 2019, Cagliostro wrote:

I am a little confused. Have not you and Steve F been exposing these type moves and methods and making videos of same continually over the years. Why is this different?

This is not magic this is for real.

Are you saying that what you and Steve F have been exposing repeatedly is not "real?"

Just a thought... [/quote]

I understand what Cag is saying but I also understand what Doc is saying as well. Steve I believe is one of the first guys to put out a video on card and dice cheating but he never actually taught each move as some are doing now in theirs. Doc has shown and taught as well but what I understand that he only taught moves that was already out or that he invented. So this why I understand what heís saying from his perspective but in this particular area Paul has invented nothing and he teaching someone elseís stuff and technique. So it is my opinion that Cag and Doc is correct in their own way. I canít elaborate because Iím not an expert in this field and both of them is way better than me. I would like to hear what these guys have to say.

TheGamblingman007
Message: Posted by: disgruntledpuffin (Dec 16, 2019 08:34AM)
Has Doc actually watched the video? Many of the switches involve covers like ribbon spreading a deck, putting it back in the box or doing triple cuts. Hardly things that are going to actually be used in a game. Even Paul's version of (for lack of a better term) The "Sting" cooler involves having the cooler deck pre cut and stepped IIRC.

I don't think theres any need for excitement over betrayed confidences. The moves mostly seem to be Paul's adaptations of classic coolers for magic and demo use.
Message: Posted by: popcalinda (Dec 16, 2019 01:08PM)
[quote]On Dec 14, 2019, Gamblingman007 wrote:
I read this on another site by Doc regarding Paul Wilsonís teaching video. Do yíall agree with what heís saying or not.

Now regarding ďPaul selling his deck switching video.Ē I think that he is totally wrong for doing so. Why? Please readers I donít mind if you post here and speak your mind to tell me that Iím wrong.

Steve F and I have done these moves for years (expertly) and have never shown the teachings of the move so why is he selling this move or video for $7.00? Doesnít he know that he can get people who does this for real killed. Paul these are life and death moves that you are revealing here for your financial gain.

This is not magic this is for real. If he wants money for doing these moves...he should go to real games and do it because he would be far more richer than selling these moves. He will definitely get more money cheating than he would get selling Steveís techniques for $7.00.

Please readers speak your mind because youíve heard my side of it. If I thought that this was so right I would have posted this many years ago. You see how Todd Lassen stole and sold my N-Stripper technique...will Paul W. do this to Steveís cold decking moves because Steve is the one who showed me these moves over 18 years ago so I know where he got them from.Ē

The Gamblingman007 [/quote]



What other forum?
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Dec 16, 2019 03:41PM)
[quote]On Dec 16, 2019, disgruntledpuffin wrote:

Has Doc actually watched the video?...

...I don't think there's any need for excitement over betrayed confidences. The moves mostly seem to be Paul's adaptations of classic coolers for magic and demo use. [/quote]

Interesting...I haven't bothered to watch the videos in question, mostly because almost all cold deck videos I have seen by magicians, expose gurus and demonstrators, are not the moves I have seen used by professionals among experienced and alert gamesters, and definitely not in casino play against cameras...at least not in recent years.

Certainly they might fly in loose or amateur games, or as part of a magic trick or demonstration, but generally speaking for sophisticated hustling nowadays, most of these dated methods are passe or highly questionable and have been so for some time. It is more in the province of demonstrators, expose gurus, magicians and a myriad of "experts" selling their wares, most of which are behind the times currently. Of course there will always be some spots, somewhere and at some point in time, where they would effective.

I am not saying cold decking is not used and not effective. It certainly is, but it depends on the judgment, ability of the practitioner, the situation in which it is used, the method employed as well as the window dressing that surrounds it. But most of the moves exposed and "performed" on videos and YouTube, including cold deck moves, would probably get you seriously hurt or killed under fire.

This is the age of information, and exposes are at the highest level since the time of Maskelyne writing in [b]Sharps and Flats[/b]. Note how prescient he was in the late 1800s when he wrote:

[quote] As a professional sharp remarked to a young friend, to whom he was giving lessons in the art of cheating:

'The best gamblers [they don't call themselves sharps] play with fair cards only; and, by being wonderfully keen card-players, make their brains win, instead of cheating with the pack. They play in partnership (secret), and are invincible, as they know all the various swindles and so can protect themselves from being cheated. The most successful men are among this class, although nearly all of them can do the finest work with a pack of cards.

'The next best class are those who play marked cards well, many of them using cards that no one not acquainted with the work could find out in a lifetime. These men, if they can only get their own cards into a game, are sure to win.

'Then, after these, come the class of "second dealers," "bottom dealers," and men who habitually do work with the pack to win. These men always get caught in the long run.'[/quote]

While I don't agree with that premise 100%, it certainly is mostly true and at minimum food for thought.

Professional hustlers have to stay well ahead of these dated methods that are continually being exposed...and guess what???...the really good ones do.
Message: Posted by: 5ggg (Dec 17, 2019 05:31PM)
I would say yes, that doc has seen the video
Message: Posted by: JasonEngland (Dec 18, 2019 12:34AM)
Paul and I are friends, but I can assure you that no confidences have been betrayed. As pointed out already, these are Paul's touches and ideas on classic switches that have been around for years. Him teaching these moves is no different than me teaching my take on bottom deals or push-through shuffles (neither of which I invented). They're perfectly suited for modern close-up work and he's every right to teach them.

Jason
Message: Posted by: Mr. Bones (Dec 22, 2019 10:30AM)
Nothing Paul has made available constitutes "real work" - at least in terms of demonstrating [i]exactly[/i] how a hustler might switch a deck in 2020.
These switches on display are decades (some perhaps even a century) old, and easily found in any number of available books and videos.

Beyond simply further popularizing the fact that deck switches are an "actual thing" ... I'm not clear on why Doc would have an issue with any of this?
Message: Posted by: Gamblingman007 (Jan 13, 2020 02:11AM)
[quote]

On Dec 22, 2019, Mr. Bones wrote:
Nothing Paul has made available constitutes "real work" - at least in terms of demonstrating [i]exactly[/i] how a hustler might switch a deck in 2020.
These switches on display are decades (some perhaps even a century) old, and easily found in any number of available books and videos.

Beyond simply further popularizing the fact that deck switches are an "actual thing" ... I'm not clear on why Doc would have an issue with any of this? [/quote]

I beg to differ, are you Doc? How can you make such a claim unless you are experienced with many (or all) cold decking moves? How can you claim that what Paul is doing is not the real work; I believe that it is. Many may not be as experienced as you, Doc or Paul in this particular area but I believe that many have gotten the money doing many of the moves that Paul has demonstrated. If Iím wrong please enlighten me with the knowledge that you know of doing it and your expertise.

The Gamblingman007
Message: Posted by: Bulla (Jan 14, 2020 01:27AM)
"Doesn't he know that he can get people who does this for real killed."

You can't actually be serious about this can you? I mean if you're using this to steal money from people then you are the lowest scum of the earth. Who cares if people use these moves in real games? You shouldn't be doing that in the first place. This is a forum for entertainment not for people who want to scam and hustle others out of money and live a dishonest lifestyle. If you choose to live that way then you accept all the risks that comes along with it and that includes putting your life on the line every day for a measly buck.
Message: Posted by: Cliff Rusnick (Jan 14, 2020 03:19AM)
Actually, this sub forum I think was made as per doc's request, who is the hustler being quoted in this thread. Many hustlers lurk about this sub forum of the Cafť, so you could argue that it wasn't made for entertainment/entertainers.

just as a magician would get angry if someone tips their hat about an effect they use on a daily basis, it's more reasonable to expect someone who makes their livelihood off of these moves to get even more upset, regardless of morality.

I'm not saying either side is right here. besides, I think doc's moves are likely better than what's shown on the video in question anyway.
Message: Posted by: Bulla (Jan 14, 2020 04:01AM)
Ok, I'll recant what I said about this being a forum for entertainers. But on a serious note, why would someone think it's ok to complain about someone else making your job of being a criminal harder? That's a good thing. You chose that life. You have absolutely nothing to complain about.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Bones (Jan 14, 2020 08:28AM)
[quote]On Jan 14, 2020, Bulla wrote:
This is a forum for entertainment not for people who want to scam and hustle others out of money and live a dishonest lifestyle.[/quote]

You're incorrect.
Although all are welcome, the intent of the forum as described by the moderators is:
"[i]History, theory and ideas surrounding the mysterious world of the unscrupulous gambler. Topics may include card cheating, card counters, advantage players, etc. Strategies, theories and schemes for winning at Poker, BlackJack, Slots, Roulette, Craps and other casino games"[/i]

As you can see, "entertainment" isn't mentioned anywhere.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Bones (Jan 14, 2020 08:38AM)
[quote]On Jan 13, 2020, Gamblingman007 wrote:
I beg to differ, are you Doc?
[/quote]
I'm definitely not Doc, but I'm pretty sure you know that already!
The fact that [i]you[/i] strongly beg to differ causes me to pause, so I'll retract my previous comment and undertake some more detailed research.

If there indeed is some work of particular note on the video, I'm not sure it's in anybodies best interest to make note of it here in a public forum ... give game to a lame and all?
Message: Posted by: Bulla (Jan 14, 2020 11:52AM)
Mr Bones, if you look at the description to all the subs here you'll see that they all don't have the word "entertainment." Does that also mean that they aren't about that? You're on a forum for magicians and entertainers. Everything here falls under that category and doesn't need to be stated every single time. Topics are discussed for the sake of entertainment. I highly doubt that Steve Brooks endorses or encourages any criminal activity.
Message: Posted by: Peterson (Jan 14, 2020 01:32PM)
Why "criminal activity"?
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Jan 14, 2020 02:23PM)
[quote]On Jan 14, 2020, Mr. Bones wrote:

Although all are welcome, the intent of the forum as described by the moderators is:

"[i]History, theory and ideas surrounding the mysterious world of the unscrupulous gambler. Topics may include card cheating, card counters, advantage players, etc. Strategies, theories and schemes for winning at Poker, BlackJack, Slots, Roulette, Craps and other casino games"[/i]

As you can see, "entertainment" isn't mentioned anywhere. [/quote]

Bones, I have to disagree with you on this. I find many of these posts to be entertaining and even humorous at times. Not particularly informative of course, and often not on point, but certainly "entertaining" to read.

(Yes, I know that is not the point you are trying to make.) :cool:
Message: Posted by: tommy (Jan 16, 2020 05:37PM)
What can or cannot be used depends on the circumstances and in steer games one can create oneís own circumstances. Paul Wilson, who is a member here, demonstrated just that quite nicely when he cold decked the Hendon Mob.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtWqSLtAr9I
Message: Posted by: ASW (Jan 17, 2020 01:15AM)
[quote]On Jan 14, 2020, Bulla wrote:
"Doesn't he know that he can get people who does this for real killed."

You can't actually be serious about this can you? I mean if you're using this to steal money from people then you are the lowest scum of the earth. Who cares if people use these moves in real games? You shouldn't be doing that in the first place. This is a forum for entertainment not for people who want to scam and hustle others out of money and live a dishonest lifestyle. If you choose to live that way then you accept all the risks that comes along with it and that includes putting your life on the line every day for a measly buck. [/quote]

Iím not going to comment on the ethics but the idea that cheats put their life on the line is BS. There are occasional risks for some but mostly they pick their spot. Besides have you seen many cheats? Most of them couldnít knock the skin off a custard.
Message: Posted by: disgruntledpuffin (Jan 17, 2020 01:56AM)
Personally, I will be raising complaints with Paul directly.

Last week, I tried one of the switches in game (the one where you take a deck and then ribbon spread it) and was beaten almost to the point of bruising.

Following night, I tried another one of the switches (this time, the one where you switch the deck as you're pulling them out of the box) and the surveillance guys spotted it. I got weighed in by the bouncers.

Tomorrow, I'm planning to try some of the Tenkai grip switches in my no limit Omaha game. Should be fine I reckon, but if not I'm emailing Paul for my money back.

He's going to get people killed at this rate.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Jan 17, 2020 02:59AM)
It is standard industry procedure to spread the deck at the start of a game to check that the cards are all present and correct.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8iuLaWOk94

In my experience croupiers are rarely attacked for doing so except by magicians, who tend to be all brawn and no brains.
Message: Posted by: disgruntledpuffin (Jan 17, 2020 03:19AM)
[quote]On Jan 17, 2020, tommy wrote:
It is standard industry procedure to spread the deck at the start of a game to check that the cards are all present and correct.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8iuLaWOk94

In my experience croupiers are rarely attacked for doing so except by magicians, who tend to be all brawn and no brains. [/quote]

I think that was part of the problem. I switched the deck, spread it face up for inspection and they noticed it was in my cooler set up rather than new deck order. Definitely a timing issue.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Jan 17, 2020 07:08AM)
Gets down to what it's all about, doesn't it?
Message: Posted by: Mr. Bones (Jan 17, 2020 01:15PM)
[quote]On Jan 14, 2020, Bulla wrote:
Mr Bones, if you look at the description to all the subs here you'll see that they all don't have the word "entertainment." Does that also mean that they aren't about that? You're on a forum for magicians and entertainers. Everything here falls under that category and doesn't need to be stated every single time. Topics are discussed for the sake of entertainment. [/quote]

If you had even a clue what you were talking about, you'd likely be dangerous!
Message: Posted by: Cliff Rusnick (Jan 17, 2020 05:19PM)
[quote]On Jan 14, 2020, Bulla wrote:
Ok, I'll recant what I said about this being a forum for entertainers. But on a serious note, why would someone think it's ok to complain about someone else making your job of being a criminal harder? That's a good thing. You chose that life. You have absolutely nothing to complain about. [/quote]


Well... I see some of the things magicians do as dishonest and borderline criminal. Like any magician who is lying about having special powers, or being psychic. Can I go and tip all the mentalism effects I know because someone is claiming to be special?

I don't just mean people like Uri Geller, Peter popoff or any "psychic"... But If you've ever watched America's got talent, there are many people who have some BS story about being special. Can I go and tip anything they do without backlash from any magicians? ... They chose that life, They claim to be more special than the rest of us, They deserve it!
Claiming the types of special powers they have are real, perpetuates stupidity, lack of logical thinking and problem solving for current and future generations! If people were any wiser, it surely would be recognized as crimes against humanity.

And God help me I'm so f'ing sick of seeing people performing Sam the bellhop and having it go viral.. they don't even shuffle the f'ing deck!!! Not enough discipline to learn one *** false shuffle! That's criminal. I should probably expose it.

The difference is that one is only in danger of losing respect from the public and the other is in danger of losing teeth.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather some lying sack of S gets called out and publicly humiliated from my doing than having someone end up in the hospital because I wanted to make $7 on a video...

(All hypothetical though as I've gathered that the contents of the video don't contain much, if any useful deck switches for game use.)