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Topic: CineMental by Nikolas Mavresis
Message: Posted by: Titanas (Jan 31, 2020 02:00PM)
Last Blackpool convention, Nikolas Mavresis showed me an effect using movie cards that absolutely fooled me. I watched him perform the trick to nearly a dozen other magicians that night and they all had the same reaction. I've been carrying this around and performing it ever since then and its finally ready to share with you all.

Keep in mind there is no peeking at all required, and in the second phase the cards are dealt face up with only 1 prediction ever in play. It's quickly become one of my most favorite effects to perform, and I think you guys are going to love this!

More info:
https://www.murphysmagic.com/Product.aspx?id=64597


Best regards,
Titanas
Message: Posted by: Dominic Reyes (Jan 31, 2020 02:00PM)
I love the fact the cards are made to look like a card game, and designer Phill Smith did a brilliant job!

MoM Have it on the UK site now with FREE worldwide shipping here

https://www.magicshop-deals.com/products/cinemental-1

This would be a perfect performance piece for a game night or to plant on the game shelf of your favorite coffee shop.

Release date worldwide is February 10th

Hope this helps
Dominic Reyes
Message: Posted by: magicmind (Jan 31, 2020 03:01PM)
Hands down the most fun demo video I have ever seen. Fun effect too!! "Think stop".....I have an idea. I want this!
Message: Posted by: phillsmiff (Jan 31, 2020 03:22PM)
Guys, I hate to break the first rule of designing, but now it's in a magic trailer it's official: BEST DESIGNER EVER 🤣

Nikolas has worked really hard creating a really streamlined commercial routine and it was great to be able to do the colouring in for it. I love the effect and I think a lot of people will have a lot of fun with it, I think it will make a bit of noise at Blackpool this year.

Phill
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Jan 31, 2020 03:29PM)
Looks like Directors Cut to me. :sun:
Message: Posted by: M Pitcher (Jan 31, 2020 03:46PM)
[quote]On Jan 31, 2020, pegasus wrote:
Looks like Directors Cut to me. :sun: [/quote]

Other than using movies this is nothing like Director’s Cut.
Did you even watch the trailer?

MP
Message: Posted by: Mark_Chandaue (Jan 31, 2020 04:33PM)
Loved the trailer.

Mark
Message: Posted by: MichaelOB (Jan 31, 2020 04:51PM)
I love these type of effects. I'm going to definitely purchase this.
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (Jan 31, 2020 04:54PM)
I don’t normally like routines like this but this looks really nice.
Message: Posted by: Last Laugh (Jan 31, 2020 04:59PM)
Trailer is amazing, whoever made it deserves some love. Effect looks good too.
Message: Posted by: chuds (Jan 31, 2020 05:54PM)
Great looking effect, love the killer ending!
Message: Posted by: Magic KL (Jan 31, 2020 05:57PM)
Love the trailer. Good work, Guys!!
Message: Posted by: PatrickGregoire (Jan 31, 2020 06:48PM)
Can the prediction be different every time? And is the prediction always 100% correct? And does it always play out like in the trailer?
Message: Posted by: AndrewI (Jan 31, 2020 11:30PM)
I understand it’s permitted to speculate on this forum so here goes!
Phase 1 I’ve been performing with playing cards for many years. It requires some memory work so it’s likely been simplified for the magician (by the design of the deck) in this release since it says “no skill required” on the product page. I love this effect!
Phase 2 I have a few ideas - there are some tells for magicians in the way he manages what is visible on the table, and the fact she doesn’t actually stop on the predicted card (it’s the next one) but if there are genuinely “no multiple outs” then it’s either very bold or I’m completely wrong!
Either way I’ll be buying it to find out more as it suits my style very well.
Message: Posted by: tophatter (Feb 1, 2020 12:48AM)
I just don't get it why walk around with these cards when you can just use the force pads more effective blows them away all the time ! I think the spectator at the end of the day is going to say he did have those special cards .
Message: Posted by: Joe Roberts (Feb 1, 2020 12:53AM)
[quote]On Feb 1, 2020, tophatter wrote:
I just don't get it why walk around with these cards when you can just use the force pads more effective blows them away all the time ! I think the spectator at the end of the day is going to say he did have those special cards . [/quote]

Wouldn't they also say, "He did have that special pad"?
Message: Posted by: dooblehorn (Feb 1, 2020 01:03AM)
Looks great, trailer is great...will wait until they are not pre-order
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Feb 1, 2020 01:29AM)
[quote]On Jan 31, 2020, M Pitcher wrote:
[quote]On Jan 31, 2020, pegasus wrote:
Looks like Directors Cut to me. :sun: [/quote]

Other than using movies this is nothing like Director’s Cut.
Did you even watch the trailer?

MP [/quote]

I was joking you balloon. Did you not see the laughing sun emoji? Chill out. :mad:
Message: Posted by: M Pitcher (Feb 1, 2020 02:28AM)
[quote]On Feb 1, 2020, pegasus wrote:
[quote]On Jan 31, 2020, M Pitcher wrote:
[quote]On Jan 31, 2020, pegasus wrote:
Looks like Directors Cut to me. :sun: [/quote]

Other than using movies this is nothing like Director’s Cut.
Did you even watch the trailer?

MP [/quote]

I was joking you balloon. Did you not see the laughing sun emoji? Chill out. :mad: [/quote]

If only an emoji was enough to turn a random and irrelevant comment to a joke you might have been funny.

MP
Message: Posted by: RickVancouver (Feb 1, 2020 04:24AM)
Two questions -

1) Will it be the same 2 movies predicted each & every time, with the one purchased deck? (for the 2 phases demoed)
2) No roughing fluid - does this include anything else sticky? (some products claim no roughing fluid, but they use the friction adhesive instead. Grrr.)
Message: Posted by: Vraagaard (Feb 1, 2020 07:03AM)
I lie this a lot - movies are emotional to people compared to playing cards. Both effects I do with playing cards already - nothing new there, and I assume you can even do a multiple mind reading effect with these cards also.

Although the design is probably great, I personally would have preferred the cards to be a recognizable movie poster (like Directors Cut). WIll pick it up in Blackpool anyway though.

Best of luck to Nikolas on this effect.

Jan
Message: Posted by: phillsmiff (Feb 1, 2020 08:56AM)
My understanding is that the reason they asked for the artwork to be custom movie posters was because using the actual posters has copyright problems associated with it.

There are of course lots of effects on the market that use copyrighted images without permission and the creators never have any problems - it would certainly have been cheaper as a solution to just scan a load of posters or whatever. I suspect that because this is a release by Murphy's themselves that they wanted to do it this way to avoid as many issues as possible.

Phill
Message: Posted by: phillsmiff (Feb 1, 2020 08:58AM)
There's nothing sticky on the cards, the effect just uses normal printed cards. The method is procedural rather than physical.

Phill
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Feb 1, 2020 10:28AM)
Love the trailer and the designs of the cards look great, nice job Phill!
Message: Posted by: psychod (Feb 1, 2020 12:06PM)
I must be in the minority as I wasn't crazy about the trailer. Anyway, this does look interesting and I have ordered it. Can't wait to get my hands on it.

Dave
Message: Posted by: Daren (Feb 1, 2020 02:47PM)
I have seen the tutorial and it is brilliant!!!! No sticky stuff or rough and smooth, they really can stop anywhere in the second phase, can't wait for this
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Feb 1, 2020 03:12PM)
That trailer does deserve some love.
Message: Posted by: AndrewI (Feb 1, 2020 03:12PM)
[quote]On Feb 1, 2020, RickVancouver wrote:
Two questions -

1) Will it be the same 2 movies predicted each & every time, with the one purchased deck? (for the 2 phases demoed)
2) No roughing fluid - does this include anything else sticky? (some products claim no roughing fluid, but they use the friction adhesive instead. Grrr.) [/quote]
Did anyone answer Q1 yet? This is quite important in the context of performability for me. Doing it the way I currently do, the answer is no to both (they can be different each time) but given this clearly says “no skill required” and “no multiple outs” I fear the answer is yes they will be the same each time. At least for phase 2.
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Feb 1, 2020 04:09PM)
Both old principles , stage one can be found in numerous effects ESP symbol deck is one such effect utilising stage one .
Great old underused principles with a modern theme Gaz 🙂
Message: Posted by: PatrickGregoire (Feb 2, 2020 01:37AM)
Unless I'm mistaken on how PHASE ONE works, which I'm almost 100% certain I'm not, it's 100% free choice and always different (unless they just happen to choose the same movie).

Also, if I'm not mistaken on how PHASE ONE works, this trick would be crap for walk-around as you'd have to reset the cards after each performance... (should be mentioned in the ad copy)

Phase 2 I don't know exactly how it works, but I already asked on page 1 if it's always the same movie.
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Feb 2, 2020 01:54AM)
Patrick 100% right on stage one , I haven’t got this but I can see as can you the method and yes the reset would be a problem for walkaround .
Unless of course you wrote your own on blank cards and have several s.a.k. made up in your pockets imo Gaz 🙂
Message: Posted by: NeilS (Feb 2, 2020 03:03AM)
A very well produced trailer. Well done to all concerned.

Also this uses a combination of two effective methods and together build into a solid routine which will make an impact.

However, unless I am mistaken, I think you could also use the Director's Cut cards so giving you a choice of which to use and when.

Neil
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Feb 2, 2020 03:25AM)
I prefer director's cut..it's a minor thing and I know lots of people will say who cares, but I do...

They look like playing cards but with good looking movie names and icons on them. Some will say like a game, but what game could you play with these?

And throughout the vid they are referred to as cards..

Director's cut they look and feel like novelty collectables. Like bubblegum cards and other items. I've got 60s marvel collectable cover cards that I sometimes use instead of directors cut too.

If this were an esp routine, I think I'd prefer it 👍
Message: Posted by: Daren (Feb 2, 2020 03:38AM)
As I have seen the tutorial I see reset as not much of an issue, I would say prob about 20-30 seconds and ready to go again
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Feb 2, 2020 06:24AM)
Don’t mention Directors Cut here or Mr Pitcher will have another meltdown. Have to agree that Directors Cut is superior to this.
Message: Posted by: Doric (Feb 2, 2020 06:53AM)
This feels like an unnecessary release (and conveniently timed for Blackpool). Director's Cut and Screen Test already tick the box and more. DC and ST also feel like collectors cards Vs playing cards. The one thing this pack has going for it is Phill's artwork. Regarding Phill's dig at Alakazam for not having proper usage rights for original poster images, does he know that for a fact? Also, has Phill got permission to use Warner Bros and other trade marks I wonder.
Message: Posted by: phillsmiff (Feb 2, 2020 07:42AM)
It wasn't a dig at all, someone was saying they should be the official movie posters, I was just explaining why (to my understanding) that wasn't done on this project. And, regards my possibly infringing trademarks, we produced entirely new artwork for each card using just the movies names which to the best of my understanding, is not copyright or trademarked:

https://www.klemchuk.com/ip-law-trends/trademark-copyright-mpaa-when-can-you-protect-movies-titles

Had we used the logos and official title graphics for the films and studios then there would be exposure. I'm not a lawyer but we did what we could in good faith to create something that references and is a tribute to these films without infringing the rights of those who originally created them.

Nikolas himself messaged me earlier regards the other effects mentioned and asked me to post this (since he's not a Café member):

"Both of the effects that are mentioned (Director's Cut and Screen Test) are two different effects - They cannot use those cards to perform the 2nd phase from CineMental. Even the method on the 1st phase is different. There is no peeking involved."

Other than producing the artwork I've had nothing to do with the release. I can't speak as to the 'convenient' timing of this release, but if it's a crime to time your releases for Blackpool I'm screwed because I always try to do that. 🤣

Phill
Message: Posted by: TheGingerWizard (Feb 2, 2020 08:08AM)
I really like movie nights by John Gadd and Steve Bowring, and to my mind it’s an even better justification for the cards themselves if this bothers you. Some great stuff built into them too!

https://www.alakazam.co.uk/movie-nights-by-jon-gadd-and-steve-bowring.html
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Feb 2, 2020 09:51AM)
Psimbol deck ( that’s it’s correct title apologies earlier ) certainly uses the old principle used in stage one of this effect as I have it and know it well .
I also knew the principle before that release too
Gaz 🙂
Message: Posted by: MoonRazor (Feb 2, 2020 10:44AM)
"Didn't you see the 'laughing sun'?" good stuff.

I'm just assuming most people forget what it feels like to get punched in the face.
Message: Posted by: PatrickGregoire (Feb 2, 2020 11:04AM)
[quote]On Feb 2, 2020, phillsmiff wrote:

"Even the method on the 1st phase is different. There is no peeking involved."

Phill [/quote]

lol, the method for phase 1 is different (but not the effect), but it's inferior. With this, you have to go through all the cards they cut off, fail at doing what you said you'd do, then reveal their movie. I'd rather just peak and reveal... (And remember - with this method, you also have to reset after the trick. And 20-30 seconds is way too much, I'm not going to stand around and reset a packet of cards, I finish one group and move onto the next.)

The second phase is nice, but it's most likely always the same movie.
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Feb 2, 2020 02:21PM)
100% agree with you Patrick , Gaz 🙂
Message: Posted by: AndrewI (Feb 2, 2020 02:36PM)
Resetting is not a deal-killer for me at all, but if phase 2 is always the same movie then that certainly kills it for me unfortunately (obviously everyone performs differently so I’m not implying it’s a bad thing for everyone - just for my requirements). Since nobody seems willing to answer that, I’ll have to assume it is the same each time.
Message: Posted by: PatrickGregoire (Feb 2, 2020 03:55PM)
I think I know how the last phase works, but my method would imply that Phil was lying when he said he wasn't sure why they got him to design custom cards lol. So I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say I must be wrong.
Message: Posted by: baobow (Feb 2, 2020 04:22PM)
I hope that the "force" for the second phase unst always "rear window". It is a oretty obscure movie for today's audiences (yes a classic)
Message: Posted by: AndrewI (Feb 2, 2020 04:59PM)
I suspect that a slightly bland and obscure movie title assists the method for phase 2
Message: Posted by: phillsmiff (Feb 2, 2020 05:03PM)
PG, it may well be what you think, but I'm not going to break it down here. The prototype was actually fanmade posters iirc but Murphy's wanted to own the original art files and have them all in the same style.

It was a fun project that reminded me of when I was at Uni designing stuff - making a boatload of movie posters in a cool contemporary style is a bit of a dream project.

Phill
Message: Posted by: MichaelOB (Feb 3, 2020 08:06AM)
Release date is feb 10th? I don't usually preorder but for this I may.
Message: Posted by: peterdilger (Feb 3, 2020 08:58AM)
Oh well here goes break my own rules I have pre-ordered
Message: Posted by: Platt (Feb 5, 2020 04:45PM)
This looks interesting but I don't want to repurchase something similar to a trick I bought from tannen's years ago. It could have been called 'director's cut" but not sure. It was a stop trick with about 13 or so movie poster cards. Your prediction always matched the movie poster they stopped on. It used a principle very similar to Andy Leviss' "it's a match" or the Becker classic Casino Royale. I don't want to shout the method but can somebody discreetly confirm. Thanks.
Message: Posted by: Last Laugh (Feb 7, 2020 02:52PM)
[quote]On Feb 5, 2020, Platt wrote:
This looks interesting but I don't want to repurchase something similar to a trick I bought from tannen's years ago. It could have been called 'director's cut" but not sure. It was a stop trick with about 13 or so movie poster cards. Your prediction always matched the movie poster they stopped on. It used a principle very similar to Andy Leviss' "it's a match" or the Becker classic Casino Royale. I don't want to shout the method but can somebody discreetly confirm. Thanks. [/quote]

From watching the demo, I don't think it uses the method you're talking about.
Message: Posted by: DynaMix (Feb 11, 2020 08:44AM)
[quote]On Feb 2, 2020, PatrickGregoire wrote:
[quote]On Feb 2, 2020, phillsmiff wrote:

"Even the method on the 1st phase is different. There is no peeking involved."

Phill [/quote]

lol, the method for phase 1 is different (but not the effect), but it's inferior. With this, you have to go through all the cards they cut off, fail at doing what you said you'd do, then reveal their movie. I'd rather just peak and reveal... (And remember - with this method, you also have to reset after the trick. And 20-30 seconds is way too much, I'm not going to stand around and reset a packet of cards, I finish one group and move onto the next.)

The second phase is nice, but it's most likely always the same movie. [/quote]

You are spot on with everything.
Still a nice piece of mentalism / mental magic with great cards and a decent price IMO.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Feb 11, 2020 08:47AM)
Would have been nice if the box could be written on with a dry erase marker, so your prediction is a bit like a real clapper board...
Message: Posted by: NeilS (Feb 11, 2020 12:17PM)
[quote]On Feb 11, 2020, IAIN wrote:
Would have been nice if the box could be written on with a dry erase marker, so your prediction is a bit like a real clapper board... [/quote]

Iain, I think you should offer your services as a magic consultant. So many effects could be enhanced with your input.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Feb 11, 2020 01:17PM)
I'm sure it'll be "invented" by someone soon 🤘🏻
Message: Posted by: Gaijin (Feb 12, 2020 07:00AM)
Phase 1 seems like a well known procedure in cards/ESP and I bet that this is what Vernet's PsiSet is also using (I love performing this because it goes much further than the principle itself).
I have no idea who invented this method though, it is probably as old as magic itself.

> The second phase is nice, but it's most likely always the same movie.
I am guessing too that the second phase is a clever procedural force but nothing should prevent you from setting a different one every time you do it.
Then, I don't see any inconvenient with this...
I would consider buying the trick more for the reason of buying an original force/principle that I could reuse rather than for the trick itself.
So I would like to know: is the second phase original to the trick or is it credited from someone else (then I would prefer buying the original author's work on it)?
Message: Posted by: peterdilger (Feb 12, 2020 08:32AM)
Well its arrived and as predicted without doing a reveal here it would be hard to use this more than once in a performance/night. A thought is that a second packet of cards should be offered - more cost for us I know but it would give the ability to do a second showing
Message: Posted by: atouchofmagic1 (Feb 12, 2020 01:39PM)
[quote]On Feb 12, 2020, peterdilger wrote:
Well its arrived and as predicted without doing a reveal here it would be hard to use this more than once in a performance/night. A thought is that a second packet of cards should be offered - more cost for us I know but it would give the ability to do a second showing [/quote]


Got mine as well.

I like it and I agree with whats been said above in regards to a second showing.

Cards look and feel great and the video instructions are fantastic.

Im happy overall.
Message: Posted by: John C (Feb 12, 2020 05:04PM)
[quote]On Feb 2, 2020, Daren wrote:
As I have seen the tutorial I see reset as not much of an issue, I would say prob about 20-30 seconds and ready to go again [/quote]

I don't think it's that easy and in a high volume walkaround venue you'd look like an idiot. Not very good reset. I have it.
Message: Posted by: John C (Feb 12, 2020 05:06PM)
[quote]On Feb 12, 2020, Gaijin wrote:
Phase 1 seems like a well known procedure in cards/ESP and I bet that this is what Vernet's PsiSet is also using (I love performing this because it goes much further than the principle itself).
I have no idea who invented this method though, it is probably as old as magic itself.

> The second phase is nice, but it's most likely always the same movie.
I am guessing too that the second phase is a clever procedural force but nothing should prevent you from setting a different one every time you do it.
Then, I don't see any inconvenient with this...
I would consider buying the trick more for the reason of buying an original force/principle that I could reuse rather than for the trick itself.
So I would like to know: is the second phase original to the trick or is it credited from someone else (then I would prefer buying the original author's work on it)? [/quote]

NO on setting a diff one each time.
Message: Posted by: John C (Feb 12, 2020 05:07PM)
[quote]On Feb 11, 2020, NeilS wrote:
[quote]On Feb 11, 2020, IAIN wrote:
Would have been nice if the box could be written on with a dry erase marker, so your prediction is a bit like a real clapper board... [/quote]

Iain, I think you should offer your services as a magic consultant. So many effects could be enhanced with your input. [/quote]

u cold easily glue a piece on the side.
Message: Posted by: John C (Feb 13, 2020 02:36PM)
Probably won’t use. Second phase is ok.
Message: Posted by: mikenewman (Feb 14, 2020 08:37AM)
[quote]On Feb 2, 2020, pegasus wrote:
Don’t mention Directors Cut here or Mr Pitcher will have another meltdown. Have to agree that Directors Cut is superior to this. [/quote]

LMAO!!!

Now this is funny! And I know funny!

For the record, your first post was also funny
Message: Posted by: Tyler Lunsford (Feb 14, 2020 12:09PM)
Hey everyone!

I just posted a review of CineMental! You can check it out below if you would like to :)

[youtube]BqqSJsRRr-Q[/youtube]
https://youtu.be/BqqSJsRRr-Q

Hope you find this helpful!
Tyler
Message: Posted by: atouchofmagic1 (Feb 14, 2020 01:18PM)
Lots of options with these cards.

Your not exactly limited to just the two phases taught. I mean they are cards at the end of the day.

Get creative and you can extend the routine.
Message: Posted by: NeilS (Feb 15, 2020 02:31AM)
I was on the fence about this, especially as I like and use The Director's Cut. But I am impressed with this and with the routining a surprise.

A thumbs up.

Neil
Message: Posted by: roblane (Feb 17, 2020 02:39AM)
I concur Neil. The shuffling in the 1st phase totally threw me and the second part is bold, cheeky but works! I like it a lot.
Message: Posted by: Pixelated (Feb 17, 2020 11:51AM)
There's a 3 phase routine in Scott Creasey's MMM which will work great with these cards. I don't remember what it is called, but Scott uses words that the audience choose written on blank cards.
Message: Posted by: atouchofmagic1 (Feb 17, 2020 02:40PM)
After I perform the first phase I go into a slight variation of Mike Powers effect 21 again.

Instead of dealing in the normal grid I deal direct to the table having them think stop when they see their movie.

It plays pretty strong.

Those of you familiar with it should be able to figure it out 😉
Message: Posted by: alexhui (Feb 20, 2020 07:59AM)
Here is my latest in-depth review of the effect:
https://www.alexmagicreview.com/home/trick-review-cinemental-by-nikolas-mavresis

Hope it helps.

Alex Hui
Hong Kong
Message: Posted by: peterdilger (Feb 22, 2020 05:38AM)
Alex a nice review of a one off performance I have purchased cinemental and I will certainly NOT put it in the drawer but it has some limiting aspects namely for the second phase you cam only do this once in a walk around which has been discussed earlier in this thread. Secondly the shuffle in phase one, which in my opinion really adds strength to the effect, means that a reset is not easily done if you were to attempt to do the routine more than once in a walkaround. Phase one cards can easily be used again for the same effect or in a different routine one of which is shown on the video. Am I happy I bought it - yes, but my previous suggestion of providing a second packet for phase two would make this more versatile
Message: Posted by: Titanas (Feb 26, 2020 10:22AM)
Hey guys,
Here’s another great CineMental review by The Wizard Product review and a full performance at about 22:10 time.
https://youtu.be/Wql2OtejBVY

Best regards,
Titanas
Message: Posted by: reignofsound (Feb 26, 2020 02:12PM)
[quote]On Feb 26, 2020, Titanas wrote:
Hey guys,
Here’s another great CineMental review by The Wizard Product review and a full performance at about 22:10 time.
https://youtu.be/Wql2OtejBVY

Best regards,
Titanas [/quote]

Might pick this up after that review.
Message: Posted by: Vraagaard (Mar 1, 2020 08:11AM)
I like this a lot - both phases are strong and will completely fool any audience. You just have to put on your best presentation and get the most out of it. Highly recommended - especially because you can go deep into the movies they are thinking of - I'm sure it will not be considered or remembered as a card trick.

Like Directors CUt a lot too, especially due to the classic movie posters. I think I'll prefer Cinemental in the long run due to the multiphase routine.

Best Jan
Message: Posted by: videoman (Mar 1, 2020 02:15PM)
Nice effect and the handling for the method in the first phase was new to me. Although I really feel it lacks a strong movie connection by not using copies of the actual movie posters. I just feel that is what most specs would expect to see so the generic movie cards seem somewhat odd and out of place IMO. Phil did a good job designing them but the method dictates that they look like they do so he was limited in what he could do. Most specs probably won't care but I think many will feel like something is off about them but they may not understand why. I feel like perhaps a movie theme was not the best of use of these, that maybe another theme would have suited it better so it still wouldn't have been viewed as a card trick. But all in all, I'm sure to most it won't matter all that much if you just say they are for this trivia game about movies or something and quickly move on.

My biggest gripe about this had to do with the video tutorial. I just felt they did an exceptionally poor job of making things clear. Another one of those "let's just sit down and start talking about it" with no script, no rehearsal, no outline, no bullet points, etc. Always amazes me that magicians are so keen to say practice, practice, practice, before you perform anything, but the when it comes to the video tutorial that all gets thrown out the window and we can just make it up as we go, right?
Wait, what, have someone who has no knowledge of the trick actually watch it first to make sure everything was properly explained? Why would we do that when we are certainly not going to re-shoot anything anyway. They'll figure it out.
Sorry, but being in the video biz makes this is a huge pet peeve of mine. Now having said that, yes, you can piece it all together and figure it out, especially if you have some experience, but I think beginners would be a little confused. I've been in magic for decades but still had to watch it a couple times and I'm still not clear on some things.

For instance, even though you receive about 52 cards, the audience never sees or is aware of all 52. The box is made to hold all of the cards but you only carry half of them inside the box if you use it. At least I think that is the case but I'm not 100% sure because this is never mentioned or addressed at all in the video. Do you carry all 52 cards and remove them and place half the deck aside in your pocket? Again, not entirely sure because it's never discussed. But from watching the demos, in the performances I saw they all just began using half the deck. So why isn't the box sized to carry half the deck? Because you finish with more than half the deck at the end I suppose. Again, not really sure because none of this is ever even mentioned much less explained.

Also there is probably going to be a bit of a discrepancy after you do the s****h and add the cards back to the deck and while I agree that it's unlikely that anyone would ever notice I still think it should have been mentioned in the video. The number of cards in play may nearly double in size for the second phase, right? Well again, still not sure because it's never mentioned.

Anyway, they explained all the tiny details but neglected to provide an overall big picture of what is actually taking place.
Now please let me be clear that, yes, this can all certainly be worked out but that's not the point. They should make it all clear in the instructional video. Honestly, there are still some things I am uncertain about.

I'm still in the process of deciding if the lack of using the actual movie posters is worth making it possible to perform the second phase of the routine. I guess I'll have to try it out and make that determination.

But all in all, while I like aspects of this release, and I'm a huge fan of using movie related routines, I would have to say that my initial impression is that I feel kind of disappointed in this one.
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Mar 1, 2020 02:51PM)
[quote]On Mar 1, 2020, videoman wrote:
Nice effect and the handling for the method in the first phase was new to me. Although I really feel it lacks a strong movie connection by not using copies of the actual movie posters. I just feel that is what most specs would expect to see so the generic movie cards seem somewhat odd and out of place IMO. Phil did a good job designing them but the method dictates that they look like they do so he was limited in what he could do. Most specs probably won't care but I think many will feel like something is off about them but they may not understand why. I feel like perhaps a movie theme was not the best of use of these, that maybe another theme would have suited it better so it still wouldn't have been viewed as a card trick. But all in all, I'm sure to most it won't matter all that much if you just say they are for this trivia game about movies or something and quickly move on.

My biggest gripe about this had to do with the video tutorial. I just felt they did an exceptionally poor job of making things clear. Another one of those "let's just sit down and start talking about it" with no script, no rehearsal, no outline, no bullet points, etc. Always amazes me that magicians are so keen to say practice, practice, practice, before you perform anything, but the when it comes to the video tutorial that all gets thrown out the window and we can just make it up as we go, right?
Wait, what, have someone who has no knowledge of the trick actually watch it first to make sure everything was properly explained? Why would we do that when we are certainly not going to re-shoot anything anyway. They'll figure it out.
Sorry, but being in the video biz makes this is a huge pet peeve of mine. Now having said that, yes, you can piece it all together and figure it out, especially if you have some experience, but I think beginners would be a little confused. I've been in magic for decades but still had to watch it a couple times and I'm still not clear on some things.

For instance, even though you receive about 52 cards, the audience never sees or is aware of all 52. The box is made to hold all of the cards but you only carry half of them inside the box if you use it. At least I think that is the case but I'm not 100% sure because this is never mentioned or addressed at all in the video. Do you carry all 52 cards and remove them and place half the deck aside in your pocket? Again, not entirely sure because it's never discussed. But from watching the demos, in the performances I saw they all just began using half the deck. So why isn't the box sized to carry half the deck? Because you finish with more than half the deck at the end I suppose. Again, not really sure because none of this is ever even mentioned much less explained.

Also there is probably going to be a bit of a discrepancy after you do the s****h and add the cards back to the deck and while I agree that it's unlikely that anyone would ever notice I still think it should have been mentioned in the video. The number of cards in play may nearly double in size for the second phase, right? Well again, still not sure because it's never mentioned.

Anyway, they explained all the tiny details but neglected to provide an overall big picture of what is actually taking place.
Now please let me be clear that, yes, this can all certainly be worked out but that's not the point. They should make it all clear in the instructional video. Honestly, there are still some things I am uncertain about.

I'm still in the process of deciding if the lack of using the actual movie posters is worth making it possible to perform the second phase of the routine. I guess I'll have to try it out and make that determination.

But all in all, while I like aspects of this release, and I'm a huge fan of using movie related routines, I would have to say that my initial impression is that I feel kind of disappointed in this one. [/quote]

Finally someone else mentioned it. I thought the tutorial was incredibly unclear and I agree with all your points above. It was a real letdown for an otherwise very good effect
Message: Posted by: RodrigoGrando (Mar 1, 2020 02:53PM)
I agree 100%, videoman. I felt the same about the explanations.
Message: Posted by: Churken2 (Mar 1, 2020 06:52PM)
Outside of my family, magic is my first love in life and movies/books are my second, so getting this was a no brainer for me. I also have both versions of Directors Cut and love them. I am primarily a walk around close up worker. I will definitely be using this, but not as presented in the training video.

I do think it's cool that the cards can be shuffled, but that is the magician side of me. If you allow the the spectator to shuffle, the reset is lengthy and would make it difficult to do walk around. (It would be great as is in a parlor setting or for other magicians.) I believe if you are doing a convincing false shuffle, a lay audience really won't be the wiser or feel the need to shuffle themselves.

So, for me the first phase needs to be changed for walk around. There are many ways to still have the spectator be in control of the cards, make a choice, bury their card in the center while the magician is totally hands off. (One great way is the handling Richard Osterlind uses in his effect Test Conditions.) The reset is just putting one card back in place and it doesn't matter what card is on top, because of the cyclical nature. This solves the biggest problem in the first phase when doing walk around for lay audiences.

I really like the second phase and think that for table hopping at a restaurant as they are tables of strangers and won't be discussing effects with other tables. Just have some distance between performances. For my work in a corporate, wedding or party situation, the second phase would need to be cut.

However, you have several cards in the second phase that you could add to the top stack to create other really cool effects and have repeatable material for alternate groups. Any effect that requires a duplicate card would work because you can change the duplicate easily between groups, so none of them would have the same outcome. Also, some of the effects possible with Directors Cut can be applied to Cinemental. Many ideas by Juan Tamariz, Michael Close, Simon Aronson, Patrick Redford, etc. can be applied to this as well.

I love the artwork and the feel of the cards. I would love to see another set of cards come out that could be added to this to make it into a "full" deck, but at the same time, I think it is perfectly justified that it's not, because it's not a deck of cards, but a sampling of movie artwork.

In the end, I think that Cinemental is a great way to do a card trick while seeming to be doing something that doesn't seem like card trick at all. I think lay audiences will love it. My biggest concern is that eventually the cards are going to become worn and dirty and it's going to be pricey to replace often.
Message: Posted by: j100taylor (Mar 1, 2020 07:49PM)
[quote]On Mar 1, 2020, RodrigoGrando wrote:
I agree 100%, videoman. I felt the same about the explanations. [/quote]

Seemed pretty darn clear to me...
Message: Posted by: magicinsight (Mar 1, 2020 08:16PM)
I like the effect. However, I also totally agree with Videoman's well-stated post about the unclear video instructions. I had to watch it more than once in order to attempt sought out the pieces myself.

Michael
Message: Posted by: alexhui (Mar 1, 2020 08:21PM)
Just being curious, are those fellows who talked abt unclear instruction are not particularly familiar with memorized deck works?

Cos there may be some connection to the methodology of it.

Alex Hui
Hong Kong
Message: Posted by: videoman (Mar 1, 2020 09:24PM)
[quote]On Mar 1, 2020, alexhui wrote:
Just being curious, are those fellows who talked abt unclear instruction are not particularly familiar with memorized deck works?

Cos there may be some connection to the methodology of it.

Alex Hui
Hong Kong [/quote]

No, nothing to do with any memorized deck stuff. Had more to do with combining the 2 methods. As I said, it can all be figured out but it could have been made much clearer. I do videos like this for a living so maybe I'm more particular. This one never would have left my studio like that, at least not without me making it clear to the client that I felt it was unclear in areas. It was almost as if a chapter was left out or something.

I noticed you mentioned in your review Alex that parts of the video could be improved. It's all too common in magic tutorials, they digress on a tangent and then never get back to something, just like you pointed out with not explaining the cue card.

Don't want to make too big a deal out of it. People can obviously work it out. Just a pet peeve of mine. But when it's exceptionally poor I feel it's worth mentioning, and I guess I wasn't the only one who felt that way.
Message: Posted by: baobow (Mar 1, 2020 10:14PM)
I think if ppl played around with the effect, then a routine could be determined without the need to sw****. Some could argue that that should be been worked out by the creator and production team, but hey I'm not. I quite enjoyed working out alternative methods here.

Granted there will be some audience management required etc and some restrictions in telling the spectator where to cut in phase 1 and some restrictions in dealing in phase 2

I'm thinking a breather crimp or short card of the momemto cards belowing to the second phase. Phase 1 cards at the bottom, specatator can look at each card at the bottom of deck and move them to the top of the deck one by one or as a bunch, or you do this yourself as you show them the cards if you feel uncomfortable with them handling the deck at this point. SO all the cards relating to phase 1. They should all now be on top of the deck. Perform phase 1, place cut cards back on top of deck. Now cut at crimp (or a pass perhaps) , you should now be set to inbetween phase 1 and phase 2 during the offbeat. (No one knows of phase 2, so shouldnt arise of suspicsion). You should now be ready for phase 2. Put deck in their hand and get them to start dealing....

I would love murphys to release add ons in the future of different movie options for phase 2 to give ppl some options.
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Mar 1, 2020 11:41PM)
The deck was designed for the sw*** though, so while there may be solutions to eliminate the need for it, there would still be discrepancies if you look closely
Message: Posted by: baobow (Mar 1, 2020 11:53PM)
The discripancies are there with or without the sw***. My solution for one deck, in phase 1 you would only see phase 1 cards. Phase 2 only phase 2 cards are seen unless you choose to show some phase 1 cards. Again original method did exact same thing
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Mar 2, 2020 01:02AM)
To be clear, Im not referring to a discrepancy with the outcome of phase 2, I'm talking about the other cards in that phase.
Message: Posted by: baobow (Mar 2, 2020 01:48AM)
I understand the discrepancy you are suggesting and d9nt believe that to be an issue at all
Message: Posted by: mmbob (Mar 2, 2020 06:30AM)
I've been performing this recently and I really like it. I've varied my performance slightly from the instructions, in the second phase I have the spectator deal the cards face up but tell them to keep eye contact with me and I'm going to try and influence them where to stop.
Message: Posted by: JanForster (Mar 2, 2020 08:02AM)
[quote]On Mar 2, 2020, alexhui wrote:
Just being curious, are those fellows who talked abt unclear instruction are not particularly familiar with memorized deck works?

Cos there may be some connection to the methodology of it.

Alex Hui
Hong Kong [/quote]

Exactly! :) BTW, it is one part of 4 parts of my MD routine I presented in my first Penguin Magic Live Lecture... Jan
Message: Posted by: JanForster (Mar 2, 2020 08:04AM)
[quote]On Mar 2, 2020, mmbob wrote:
I've been performing this recently and I really like it. I've varied my performance slightly from the instructions, in the second phase I have the spectator deal the cards face up but tell them to keep eye contact with me and I'm going to try and influence them where to stop. [/quote]

Nice! :) I like that a lot ... Jan
Message: Posted by: siepielski (Mar 2, 2020 06:03PM)
Is anyone aware of a source for the CineMental cards only?
Message: Posted by: mavresis_n (Mar 2, 2020 07:57PM)
First of all, I want to thank everybody for your nice comments and feedback. This is my first post! I just wanted to share some ideas with you. For the 1st phase, I don't touch the cards at all. I have the spectator deal down the cards in 2-3 rows. Using my peripheral vision, I am able to reveal their movie. I personally perform this in a parlour setting because I like to take my time with it. Before I start the routine, I give a paper bag with an actual DVD inside for the spectator as a gift for helping me out. Later on, they realize that the DVD matches their choice on phase 2 and it's a great reveal (credit to Andy Nyman).

Tips for the 2nd phase:

1) Keep in mind that the first phase should always be performed first so that the spectator can see that the cards are all different.

2) Have them deal the cards face up, but in a way that when the cards are dealt, they are upside down to them. This certainly would prevent the participant from clearly seeing the cards and as such may help disguise the method.

3) Finally, when the spectator deals the cards in the second phase, have them deal down quickly and stop whenever they want. Dealing down quickly will also help hide the secret.

If you have any questions please don't hesitate to contact me.

Nikolas
Message: Posted by: DavidKenney (Mar 3, 2020 02:46PM)
Watch REAL MAGIC REVIEW and PERFORMANCE First, then Tyler Lunsford's review and then if you're still not decided, I suppose you can watch mine - but I am sure you will have bought it by then

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xma_cBmbJAI

Although my review has tips from the creator and a card to impossible location idea .... so there's that
Message: Posted by: ejohn (Mar 3, 2020 08:47PM)
Regarding the potential problem in phase two, especially if other people are watching closely, one could have the spec deal face down while silently tracking “No, yes, no, yes, etc”. Also, another phase could be achieved by facing a few cards (half pass) at an opportune moment, noting the bottom face up card. Have spec deal face down to a stop, take remaining cards back, reversing them in the process, and reveal the noted card.
Message: Posted by: BCE (Mar 4, 2020 07:48AM)
The art work looks EXACTLY like what would be on a Criterion DVD cover (those never have the standard movie artwork.) That's a huge plus for me.

That said - the explanation video feels like a DVD commentary track where the cast and crew are goofing off and you don't actually learn anything new. This is by far one of the worst explanation videos I have ever seen. Are there any plans to re-shoot a more coherent and to-the-point explanation video?
Message: Posted by: DavidKenney (Mar 4, 2020 07:51PM)
The tuck case - you say "these are a cool expansion pack set I got for LUCK OF THE DRAW" (the game listed in the corner) then lay the tuck face down on the table and it will double as your crib. For the second phase there are lots of things you can do. Currently I just say "quickly deal down..."

But you could also say "count out the cards out loud as you deal them to the table" the act of counting distracts from them remembering what they're dealing - that same technique is used in Vanished and Gone by Peter Duffie

You could also hand them the cards "reversed' so the titles FACE you - then they can't read them as they deal .....

:smiles:
Message: Posted by: JBD (Mar 7, 2020 03:58AM)
Cinemental small effect with massive kick as it unfolds. The tutorial is brilliant Nikolas and Titanas are excellent and comical throughout. So simple to do and uses amazing principles. Phil Smith has designed a wickedly deceptive set, as he always does with what he designs. This definitely does not feel or leave the spectator the idea it was a card trick, as it never feels like one.
Message: Posted by: lumberjohn (Mar 7, 2020 03:01PM)
What makes the second half of this effect so strong is the complete freedom the spectator is given when dealing and the casualness with which you can direct them. after the trick is done, they will say “I could have stopped anywhere and I saw every card that went down.” Speeding them along or forcing them to look at you when dealing destroys that. Yes it is possible they may notice something when dealing, but very unlikely given the structure of the routine. Like card under glass or any effect relying on directing the spectator’s attention there is some risk of being caught out, but that’s just the nature of the effect. I wouldn’t change card under glass by repeatedly forcing the spectator to look into my eyes or by rapidly increasing the tempo. If you’re concerned with getting caught, just do a different trick.
Message: Posted by: phillsmiff (Mar 7, 2020 03:27PM)
I get why people are hesitant. The second phase feels ballsy, and until you've done it a bunch it can feel like it's TOO ballsy. You have to trust the system.

Phill
Message: Posted by: Beltorak (Mar 24, 2020 08:03AM)
So, I did order it and I am learning it right now, I do like it, except for one thing and if I would have known this before, I might not have purchased it. It's the outcome of the 2nd phase. I do perform for German and English speaking audiences, mainly in Switzerland, most of the time it is totally fine to use an English movie title, we are used to this and it goes a bit with today's pop culture. But....why this movie? why not choosing a movie that has a very clear title? why not choosing a very famous, well known movie? I do love movies, all kinds and I am all in for the classics - but I would have liked if this would have been a more recogniseable movie.

I also have Directors Cut and find it very useful if the movie has been seen by the spectator, it makes the reading, or the prediction more interesting.

Anyway, I will have to test it and see the reactions on phase 2.

rgds
Andre
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (Mar 24, 2020 12:59PM)
Somebody might have already mentioned this, but I'm too lazy to wade through the other pages of this thread. Movie by Gee Magic is still the best "movie" themed trick IMO. It's super visual and a real fooler and I can see it being a killer ending in conjunction with CineMental. Does anyone know if Movie will work with the second phase of CineMental? (Movie comes with Kill Bill as the prediction movie but Gee later released several (albeit expensive) expansion packs with the following movies: Jurassic Park / The Silence of the Lambs / Batman Darknight / The Incredibles / E.T. / Titanic / Pulp Fiction / Godfather / Star Wars / 40 year old Virgin. I don't yet have CineMental so I don't know what the movie is for phase 2 but I'm hoping it's one of the titles you can get for Movie. If not, they should seriously think about releasing expansion packs for CineMental.
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Mar 24, 2020 01:15PM)
The reason it’s not such a obvious big hitter of a film is that helps to disguise the boldness of stage 2 imo Gaz 🙂
Message: Posted by: CMR (Mar 24, 2020 01:54PM)
The routine is great. Wish they were actual movie posters, but these images are beautiful too.
Message: Posted by: mavresis_n (Mar 24, 2020 07:55PM)
[quote]On Mar 24, 2020, Gaz Lawrence wrote:
The reason it’s not such an obvious big hitter of a film is that helps to disguise the boldness of stage 2 imo Gaz 🙂 [/quote]

That's the exact reason I chose that movie and it works pretty well 😊
Message: Posted by: Jared (Mar 26, 2020 11:19AM)
I was reluctant to purchase this because I use Director's Cut regularly in my strolling work, but after seeing it showcased on the Wizard Product Review I decided to give it a shot. The workings from the first phase of the effect were lifted directly from Ted Karmilovich's excellent routine called "Director's Cut 3-D" [released in 2016] from his Thoughts from Vegas E-Book. Nevertheless, the first phase is excellent and will fool everybody. I can also attest to how good it is since I've been performing Ted's routine for several years.

The second phase takes advantage of a clever artwork principle along with a tried and true classic mentalism method that will badly fool laypersons. Someone on this thread commented that the movie should be something more popular. I disagree. The chosen movie is perfect for this because it's lesser known. For example, if it had been "Jaws" or something more popular like that then the method could be detected more easily by spectators.

Cinemental was not designed for strolling work because the reset takes too long. It is better suited for parlor effect or casual settings. However, there's no reason why you couldn't use the cards exactly like Director's Cut and perform the same routines.

But personally, I prefer the Director's Cut cards for strolling work because I like the movie posters and Cinemental for parlor settings because I might combine it with something else. I tend to believe that almost everybody will be satisfied with this purchase although there will surely be some who'll think that the second phase is a bit "ballsy" even though I disagree. Once you make the leap into mentalism you'll realize that taking some chances is necessary for maximum effect.
Message: Posted by: Arielhamui (Apr 4, 2020 08:05AM)
I just received my cinemental! So excited to try it when the lockdown is over.

Feel the same as some of you guys regarding to the fact that the box is made to hold 52 cards and you only hold just half of it, sound litle bit weird.

Another this is about the grid, wasnt mention in the explanation and I thing is a greeeeat tool to have it in front of everybody (in case you are not good with stack decks)

I like the effect and the method, like the design and think is incredibly important for the second phase.