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Topic: Gambling Sleight of Hand discussion thread
Message: Posted by: Kimura (Mar 2, 2020 02:26PM)
The second printing is happening!
https://www.gamblingsleightofhand.com/

For those who already received your copies, what are you working on? Or, what sections are you reading?

So far I've been playing with some of the strip cut concepts, the "natural break" on the top stock control, and the table break-off (my favorite of the mucks I've seen on video). I plan on finally reading the Erdnase chapter tomorrow, to see what the fuss is about.

How bout you?
Message: Posted by: 5ggg (Mar 2, 2020 02:36PM)
Trying not to skip around, but I have checked on certain things I have always wondered about-the tabled break off for instance. I also love his push-trough motion, noe of the tell tale signs of it, no odd out with the elbows thing.

Im with you on the erdnase thing, I am going to read it tonight as well. The riffle stacking and deals are wayyy down the road for me...

curious, what autographed card did everyone get?

(and why did they delete the thread...?)
Message: Posted by: camron (Mar 2, 2020 02:45PM)
I read the introduction and now it's a free for fall, for me... whatever comes to mind, I just skip to it...
Message: Posted by: The Dowser (Mar 2, 2020 03:49PM)
The erdnase chapter is a long read. One night may not be enough depending on your level of commitment.

There is a lot there to digest.

I've been going over it for the last three days.
Message: Posted by: Paul H (Mar 2, 2020 04:33PM)
I am also trying to read the volumes in as linear way as possible. I am practicing an ace cutting routine from the stunts section, just couldn’t resist and it is fantastic. When Jason England talked about the Volumes taking years of study, I felt very skeptical. I’m now on the second ‘false deals’ chapter of Volume one and I’ve already stalled on page 64 trying to take in and practice the ideas up to this point. I think if done thoroughly it actually will take years to properly master :readingbook:
Message: Posted by: rnaviaux (Mar 2, 2020 04:37PM)
Have been going through it, in order, with cards in hand. (Noting sections that I will be coming back to for more work.) Pretty much every page has a significant revelation. Sometimes areas I had wondered about, sometimes things I never dreamed were an issue.

Just made it to the push through section. (My favorite shuffle.)

I'm embarrassed to say I never did study Erdnase much. Besides reading Ortiz's work on the subject I have always learned the technique necessary to do a new routine that caught my eye. And ignored most of everything else. As a result the section on Erdanse in Mr. Forte's new book hasn't been a selling point for me. But I gotta admit I'm starting to get curious what all the hub-bub is about.
Message: Posted by: Kimura (Mar 3, 2020 01:32AM)
[quote]On Mar 2, 2020, rnaviaux wrote:
Pretty much every page has a significant revelation. Sometimes areas I had wondered about, sometimes things I never dreamed were an issue.
[/quote]

This was the biggest surprise to me so far. I think a lot of the things regarding strip cuts and shuffles were a revelation to me, I wasn't expecting to change my handling at such fundamental level.

I've given up on reading in order. I'm still doing so, and have my bookmark in the first book. I'm also just getting to the full deck section. However, I keep getting distracted and end up somewhere else. So, I'm using the two bookmark method for now, lol
Message: Posted by: Paul H (Mar 3, 2020 12:48PM)
I've given up on reading in order. I'm still doing so, and have my bookmark in the first book. I am also just getting to the full deck section. However, I keep getting distracted and end up somewhere else. So, I'm using the two bookmark method for now, lol [/quote]

I completely with you on this Kimura. I am so tempted press on and dip in and out of the pages and chapters but I am staying strong......just
Message: Posted by: Marlin1894 (Mar 5, 2020 07:00AM)
I saw some posts regarding a subreddit on the books but I can't find them now. Did that ever happen, and if so how can a body find it?
Message: Posted by: shahin (Mar 5, 2020 08:38AM)
@Marlin

It is mentioned in the "what happened to the forte thread" thread

https://www.reddit.com/r/forteyears
Message: Posted by: Marlin1894 (Mar 5, 2020 09:51AM)
Thanks shahin.
Message: Posted by: Bret Maverick (Mar 6, 2020 09:15AM)
[quote]On Mar 3, 2020, Paul H wrote:
I've given up on reading in order. I'm still doing so, and have my bookmark in the first book. I am also just getting to the full deck section. However, I keep getting distracted and end up somewhere else. So, I'm using the two bookmark method for now, lol [/quote]

With regard to whether readers will read from cover-to-cover or jump around, here's what Steve wrote under the title "Experienced Cardmen" on page 1050 (Volume Two):

“Experienced cardmen – if they’re like me – will probably bounce around from move to move and stunt to stunt before settling down and reading the books from beginning to end, assuming they find the research interesting.”
Message: Posted by: Fove52 (Mar 9, 2020 06:12PM)
Hi all, I am trying to collect some valuable material on gambling sleight of hand, I be open to suggestions on where to learn.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Mar 9, 2020 07:24PM)
Arnold's facebook club.
Message: Posted by: 5ggg (Mar 9, 2020 09:48PM)
...you are in that Tommy? I guess I’ve missed that
Message: Posted by: 5ggg (Mar 9, 2020 09:49PM)
[quote]On Mar 9, 2020, Fove52 wrote:
Hi all, I am trying to collect some valuable material on gambling sleight of hand, I be open to suggestions on where to learn. [/quote]


This thread you are in is talking about a book that sounds right up your alley. And it’s certainly valuable :)
Message: Posted by: Fove52 (Mar 9, 2020 09:59PM)
Oh, I thought it wasn't about Steve forte's book, but the actual topic, my bad!
His new book might be out of my price range though.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Mar 10, 2020 07:21AM)
No - we are just in our Boogie Woogie club.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EP2KFeHWoAM1LvT.jpg
Message: Posted by: Kimura (Mar 10, 2020 06:09PM)
[quote]On Mar 9, 2020, Fove52 wrote:
Oh, I thought it wasn't about Steve forte's book, but the actual topic, my bad!
His new book might be out of my price range though. [/quote]

Jason England's Foundation dvds/downloads are a bit more available, financially speaking. Same for Sal Piacente.
Message: Posted by: Fove52 (Mar 10, 2020 07:57PM)
I just checked out Jason England's DVD's. I've looked into his work before, but every time I see him do a move it's pure perfection. Anyway, thanks for the info.
Message: Posted by: Mobius303 (Mar 11, 2020 11:12PM)
Fove .....there are no shortcuts to good work.
You must practice and do the work.
What are you looking for?
Forte's books are well worth the price but you still must work hard to get through them to perfect the moves.
Jason's DVD's that were suggested show you the basic work as a foundation to learning "the work" you still must practice it to get there.
Sal's material is wonderful and well taught but again you must practice it to get to a point you can understand it and use it.
I guess I do not really understand what you are looking for. Do you just want to know things or do you want to learn and do them?
Message: Posted by: Fove52 (Apr 16, 2020 10:28AM)
I guess that I'm trying to collect as much valuable information on the subject as possible. I've been into gambling sleight of hand for a couple of monhs now, and I'm just trying to learn as much as possible.
Fove
Message: Posted by: drumdemon420 (Apr 16, 2020 06:24PM)
According to the official site the second run of the first printing already sold out.

A second edition is in the works for June/July. It will address typos/ errors and, "will be available for as long as there’s interest in the research."
Message: Posted by: jasonffx (Apr 17, 2020 07:42PM)
A forum in GSOH website for those who bought the books would be great
Message: Posted by: tommy (Apr 21, 2020 03:08AM)
Gambling sleight of hand is of no value to the gambler, unless he is a collector of antique curiosities.
Message: Posted by: 5ggg (Apr 22, 2020 01:14PM)
Not much going on over there, just wanted people to know about the reddit area

reddit.com/r/forteyears

Hope you are all staying healthy :)
Message: Posted by: tommy (Apr 23, 2020 02:58AM)
Cag seems silent, which has been worrying me.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Apr 23, 2020 03:34PM)
[quote]On Apr 21, 2020, tommy wrote:

Gambling sleight of hand is of no value to the gambler, unless he is a collector of antique curiosities. [/quote]

I like your style tommy but let's see if I can elaborate on that. I'm a little more verbose than tommy although his comment says it all mostly.

While it is true that gambling sleight of hand is becoming more and more obsolete in many instances and situations, it is still not a curiosity...at least not yet in my opinion.

For the hobbyist and demonstrator class, it is a joy to learn and practice even if in 99% of the cases they will never dare to use what they learned under fire in a tough money game to find out how deceptive using the moves they covet and fall in love with would actually work under fire, if at all.

The reason is they don't know how to use the moves they learn and practice and of course don't have to know how to apply them. Most hobbyists would not have the nerve to apply them under close scrutiny where there were serious consequence's in getting caught. They don't make any money with the moves they learn, it is more the joy of learning, mastering and demonstrating what they covet. And that is quite a legitimate pursuit in and of itself.

Indeed many of these hobbyists become very skillful, so skillful they can fool themselves into thinking they would be successful using a great looking move all by itself under fire, because they perhaps fooled some well-known big name card player or WSOP bracelet winner. But try doing that move all by itself under fire in a round game with some experienced players and see how long it would last, because one would need a lot more than the move to be successful. Heck they could probably fool some well know players with a Svengali deck or four ace trick, but so what? What would that prove? A deceptive move all by itself in a demo is little more than a magic trick with different dressing.

Some others who have never been there for the most part, monetize these moves and teach them to others, for a price of course, by writing books or making videos for sale. Still others of this category become self-styled gambling experts and sell their academic knowledge and experience, both good and bad, to others that know less than they. It is smart to monetize what you know if you can.

But of course, using a move or gaff is always situational. There are some games, if one has grift sense gained through actual experience, where one can use sleight of hand to great advantage. However, the general rule is, as mentioned by Maskelyne in [b]Sharps and Flats[/b] over 100 years ago, is that sleight of hand is practiced by the lowest order of the card sharping community. For Maskelyne card sharping moves were simply too well know back in his day and someone with a knowledge of moves would pick up or suspect that a move was being executed, and that was back in the late 1800s.

Obviously the situation today is even worse for the sleight of hand card sharper with the myriad of hobbyists, magicians, demonstrators, gambling "experts" and so on who learn, demonstrate, teach and expose a multitude of classic sleight of hand methods ad nausea.

Of course Forte knows the difference between learning moves and the application of moves based upon his earlier days of having done some hustling and he delineates between mastering or learning a move and the actual application of using moves or any gaff in his book. Application is a whole different world and 99% of demonstrators and hobbyist have little understanding of this world but of course many think they do know all about it even thought they have never been there. They just know they can beat tough money games "ipso facto" because they can perform some pretty moves?????????? Hey, that's okay with me.

However, if they did try some of their pretty moves in a tough game where they could get hurt if caught, after their anus stopped puckering and their fingers stopped working the way they always used to work, and if they could control their urge to vomit at the table, they might decide it is not worth going forward with that endeavor.

Most hobbyist don't know that the people who are successful at hustling on a professional level are NOT movers or sleight of hand enthusiasts. Professional hustlers are basically thieves with a thief mentality first and foremost. Period!!! And "therein lies the rub" as Shakespeare so eloquently put it...and it is one of a hell of a big rub.

Specific moves may be used by a pro from time to time and can be employed quite successfully in certain situations. But for the most part mastering a myriad of gambling moves is reserved primarily for the hobbyist class. In fact, one of the definable distinctions between professional hustlers and hobbyists who have never been there is the number of sleights they have mastered. A pro usually does not bother to learn a bunch of moves. He works on what gets the money. That is what he perfects because that is how he pays his bills and supports himself. Everything else is just ego gratification and a waste of money-making time.

So simply enjoy Forte's book, moves and card tricks for what they are, master them, preform them, delight an audience, get ego gratification, have fun or whatever you desire to gain from the endeavor. It is a lot of fun and no one is deprecating that endeavor. Heck, tell your audiences you have traveled world and made a fortune with the moves you are showing them or whatever turns you on.

Go for it guys and gals. Yippe!!!
Message: Posted by: Fove52 (Apr 23, 2020 03:45PM)
Well said cag