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Topic: The Russian Vaccine
Message: Posted by: tommy (Aug 11, 2020 01:27PM)
Https://www.ft.com/content/219b973f-c50a-4071-994f-cc4592d43e1b
Message: Posted by: slowkneenuh (Aug 11, 2020 01:54PM)
People are lining up for the Russian developed vaccine. Folks who want the shot are on the left (no pun intended) and those that do not want it are on the right. I wonder which line is longer. I'm going with the right line being the longest, but people could be frightened enough to try anything that might protect them from the virus.
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Aug 11, 2020 04:20PM)
I hope it works out well.
Message: Posted by: RNK (Aug 12, 2020 10:26AM)
A vaccine that is released with no human testing. Good luck with that
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 12, 2020 11:21AM)
I forget is there a SARS vaccine.
Message: Posted by: Claudio (Aug 12, 2020 11:36AM)
The Russian vaccine has not undergone phase-3 testing and releasing it is like playing Russian roulette: [url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/12/a-poor-vaccine-is-worse-than-no-vaccine-the-challenges-faced-by-scientists]They've jumped the gun[/url].
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 12, 2020 12:54PM)
I am not a doctor and know very little about doctor stuff.

We have a HUGE bureaucracy here that things go through. Is the way we test the standard for the world?

I'm not interested in debating if it is right or wrong or whatever. I'm only curious as to if there is a worldwide standard is all.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Aug 12, 2020 01:25PM)
That's what the World Health Organization is meant to do. Promulgate scientific standards that have a consensus of the international community. As far as I know they are only guidelines and have no enforcement power.

"WHO norms and standards

WHO has played a key role for over 50 years in establishing the WHO Biological Reference Materials necessary to standardize biological materials as well as developing WHO guidelines and recommendations on the production and control of biological products and technologies. These norms and standards, based on scientific consensus achieved through international consultations, assist WHO Member States in ensuring the quality and safety of biological medicines and related in vitro biological diagnostic tests worldwide. The Organization accomplishes this work through its biological programme, the WHO Collaborating Centers, and the WHO Expert Committee on Biological Standardization (ECBS). This also involves close collaboration with the international scientific and professional communities, regional and national regulatory authorities, manufacturers and expert laboratories worldwide."

https://www.who.int/immunization_standards/en/
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Aug 12, 2020 04:05PM)
[quote]On Aug 12, 2020, Dannydoyle wrote:
I forget is there a SARS vaccine. [/quote]So far no SARS(2002) vaccine.
About testing vaccines - does not look like international standards are agreed so much as discussed:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4778966/
Message: Posted by: tommy (Aug 13, 2020 05:50PM)
The unprecedented challenge of pricing a coronavirus vaccine

https://pharmaphorum.com/views-analysis-market-access/the-unprecedented-challenge-of-pricing-a-coronavirus-vaccine/
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Aug 13, 2020 06:06PM)
Thanks Tommy, they have a trendy (ios 14?) color scheme and empty capsule logo.

Larger discussion has already set the stage to offer "treatment" rather than cure.
[quote]On Aug 13, 2020, tommy wrote:
The unprecedented challenge of pricing a coronavirus vaccine [/quote]
Maybe this will sound familiar: Affordable treatment but only gives 90 day protection or the one twice the price gets you 12 months.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Aug 17, 2020 06:14AM)
"That's what the World Health Organization is meant to do."

Except they don't.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 17, 2020 01:46PM)
[quote]On Aug 17, 2020, magicfish wrote:
"That's what the World Health Organization is meant to do."

Except they don't. [/quote]

Not by a long shot.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Aug 17, 2020 07:32PM)
[quote]On Aug 17, 2020, magicfish wrote:
"That's what the World Health Organization is meant to do."

Except they don't. [/quote]
Yes, it's a voluntary organization; it requires the good will and support of member nations that know how to act co-operatively. Some countries are more capable of that than others.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 18, 2020 08:52AM)
[quote]On Aug 17, 2020, landmark wrote:
[quote]On Aug 17, 2020, magicfish wrote:
"That's what the World Health Organization is meant to do."

Except they don't. [/quote]
Yes, it's a voluntary organization; it requires the good will and support of member nations that know how to act co-operatively. Some countries are more capable of that than others. [/quote]

It requires a hive mind.
Message: Posted by: lynnef (Aug 18, 2020 02:42PM)
"If we hadn't broken every single WHO rule many times over, we would never have defeated smallpox." (Isao Arita from Japan WHO team cited in Laurie Garrett's book The Coming Plague). Although a smallpox vaccine existed, cases devistatingly still popped up in war torn parts of Africa in the 70's. WHO guidelines at the time would not allow Arita to meet with warlords in Somalia; but he went anyway at great peril to his own life. (why would warlords trust a 'Western' scientist to vaccinate his troops?). Arita was successful in his arguments, vaccinated the soldiers (and others in Somalia); and smallpox was declared in 1980 (ironically by WHO) to be "eradicated" from Earth. Although we wave our national flags, these tiny enemies have no flag. Lynn
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Aug 19, 2020 08:01AM)
WHO is detrimental to world health.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Aug 19, 2020 08:16AM)
[quote]On Aug 19, 2020, magicfish wrote:
WHO is detrimental to world health. [/quote]

Leaders of countries who pretended that there was no problem.
Message: Posted by: Francois Lagrange (Aug 19, 2020 08:16AM)
WHO is far from perfect, but spewing propagandist garbbage against it is not helping.

And it's well-known that smallpox was eradicated thanks to WHO's spectacular efforts. Isao Arita actually led the WHO team that eradicated the disease.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 19, 2020 12:26PM)
[quote]On Aug 19, 2020, Francois Lagrange wrote:
WHO is far from perfect, but spewing propagandist garbbage against it is not helping.

And it's well-known that smallpox was eradicated thanks to WHO's spectacular efforts. Isao Arita actually led the WHO team that eradicated the disease. [/quote]

You seem to imply that their distance from perfection is somehow caused by people who point out how far they are from perfect.

When they do things OBVIOUSLY wrong (Not hard to find examples is it? Even recent ones huh?) then they need to be called out and judged whether they are useful or not. This is not propaganda, it is simply how the world works.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Aug 19, 2020 04:41PM)
[quote]On Aug 19, 2020, landmark wrote:
[quote]On Aug 19, 2020, magicfish wrote:
WHO is detrimental to world health. [/quote]

Leaders of countries who pretended that there was no problem. [/quote]

That's a full stop, not a question mark.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Aug 19, 2020 04:46PM)
[quote]On Aug 19, 2020, Francois Lagrange wrote:
WHO is far from perfect, but spewing propagandist garbbage against it is not helping.

And it's well-known that smallpox was eradicated thanks to WHO's spectacular efforts. Isao Arita actually led the WHO team that eradicated the disease. [/quote]
If by spewing propaganda you mean expressing an informed opinion based on research, then I'll spew away young man.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Aug 25, 2020 10:03PM)
There is only one party there.
Something had to be done. So something was done.

Of course there could be something better in six months or so...
Message: Posted by: landmark (Aug 27, 2020 09:45AM)
I can assure you, I will not be taking any version 1.0 vaccine of [i]any[/i] nationality. And frankly, I'd be more skeptical of a vaccine produced under a pressurized for-profit model than otherwise.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Aug 27, 2020 10:21AM)
Are ethical coronavirus vaccines more less effective than unethical coronavirus vaccines?
Message: Posted by: landmark (Aug 27, 2020 10:59AM)
Depends whether you want to be an ethical guinea pig or an unethical one.

"I say it's spinach, and to hell with it."
Message: Posted by: tommy (Aug 27, 2020 11:35AM)
Canadian biotech company says its anti-viral clothing kills 99.9 per cent of coronavirus

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/canadian-biotech-company-says-its-anti-viral-clothing-kills-99-9-per-cent-of-coronavirus-1.5062360
Message: Posted by: tommy (Aug 30, 2020 05:30PM)
The Russian Vaccine is probably available on the Black Market.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Aug 31, 2020 06:39PM)
Remember George Washington and smallpox. Not a placebo effect.

Dumb is preferable to malicious or stupid. :(

Agency without personal responsibility? What a concept! :D
Message: Posted by: landmark (Sep 1, 2020 05:30PM)
[quote]
Agenc[ies] without personal responsibility? [/quote]

The NSA and CIA?
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Sep 2, 2020 01:37PM)
Was that an intentional quote from "Let It Be"? If so, I can dig it too, but not in this context :no:

Hopefully no more toxic than a placebo.