(Close Window)
Topic: Looking for some input on performing.
Message: Posted by: DyeTube (Nov 3, 2020 10:59PM)
Hey guys, I have been doing magic since 1987 when I bought my first effect from Diamond Jim Tyler at Positively Magic here in Dallas. I was instantly hooked and luckily DJT knew I was more than just a lurker and really mentored and helped me learn the art of manipulation and magic in general. I've been doing my magic mostly for fun here and there recently but was asked to do a magic show for a Blake Shelton tribute band (that my sister manages and we are friends with) at a party they are having and it really got the bug back in me to start performing again. Plus I am working with DJT on his current website to fix some issues and have been looking at some of his effects again (btw, his new cards are AMAZING, you should get them: http://djtyler.com/product/diamond-playing-cards/). I'd like to (once covid lets up) start working restaurants and the like again. I haven't done restaurant work since the early '90s, lol, so I'll be a little rusty. Now, as you can see, I share the same name as another famous magician named Jeff McBride. I am currently a corporate applications developer (web developer) who owns his own business (Shameless plug: PM me if you need a website!) so I can easily build my own website but I really want to be separated from Jeff McBride the best I can but not really sure how to approach this. Jeff is an amazing performer in his own right and I don't want to be confused with him in any way. I'm just looking for some good input on how to approach this. I wouldn't mind adopting a nickname if you will, but not sure if that is what I want to do. I'd love to hear your suggestions!
Message: Posted by: TomBoleware (Nov 4, 2020 07:20PM)
You have every right to use your own name, but itís understandable in your case to not make it confusing to those that may know the other Jeff. Simply using a middle name could separate the two of you. Also a picture of you on your site could help.

The one thing I would NOT do would be to explain why youíre not the other Jeff. Actually outside the magic circles, you wonít meet many that would know Jeff.

Personally, I say use a middle name and I don't see a problem. Now if your name were Copperfield you might have a real problem.:)

Tom
Message: Posted by: DyeTube (Nov 5, 2020 12:03AM)
[quote]On Nov 4, 2020, TomBoleware wrote:
You have every right to use your own name, but itís understandable in your case to not make it confusing to those that may know the other Jeff. Simply using a middle name could separate the two of you. Also a picture of you on your site could help.

The one thing I would NOT do would be to explain why youíre not the other Jeff. Actually outside the magic circles, you wonít meet many that would know Jeff.

Personally, I say use a middle name and I don't see a problem. Now if your name were Copperfield you might have a real problem.:)

Tom [/quote]

From an SEO perspective, if you type in Jeff McBride in any search engine you find him instantly obviously. I thought about using the name "Mac" (Short for McBride) and I could be "Mac the Magician". I really don't care for my middle name, lol. My full name is Jeffrey Ray McBride and I guess I could use that but it makes it REALLY long. I could probably get a domain name such as www.jeffraymcbride.com or www.jeffreyraymcbride.com (jeffmcbride.com is taken) but macthemagician.com is not taken and is much shorter and easy to remember.
Message: Posted by: Blaze Magic (Nov 5, 2020 04:11AM)
As there's no need to use your real name for your stage name, (and while using a variation of it can work well, it isn't a requirement), I would suggest figuring out a name or names you are happy with, and then check out how each is from a marketing perspective. You already brought up the SEO search aspect, but also is the name available on social media, or will you need to use an inconvenient variation of it?
I also like to have a URL that's as short and easy to spell as possible.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Nov 5, 2020 08:20AM)
Its hard to tell if this is a serious post or not as you seem to be plugging 3-4 things first, then asking a question. Not the best way to appear sincere in this forum.

But assuming you are serious, here's some thoughts to consider. Yes, if you listen to Tom, you have the RIGHT to use your name (Jeffrey McBride) but why would you and how intelligent of a business move would that be? Jeff is quite established and you are right, the SEO alone would be problematic on several levels. It would attract attention and more problems to you.

A good friend of mine for many decades was Davy Jones (of the 60s rock group/t.v. show The Monkees). Davy was an established actor and singer in the UK as a young teen, and then became a worldwide idol once arriving here in the states in the mid-late 60s. Several years later another singer/actor named David Jones began to emerge in the UK and was trying to become established in the ever-so-important U.S. market. Because of Davy, he had to (was advised by label and management) change his own real name as not to get confused, so he did to David Bowie, and he never looked back.

So it really becomes a business and performing issue of whether you want to contend with the already more established Jeff McBride or opt for a different performance identity. You could always go with a similar name such as Jeffrey McB, or come up with an entire different last name for your performance persona. It's too bad you don't like Jeff or Jeffrey Ray, as it is easy to say, easy to remember, and Jeff Ray is a two, single-syllable name that many branding specialists will tell you is always preferred.

I wouldn't advise you to use McBride.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Nov 5, 2020 09:06AM)
I don't know as much as ol Tom, but why even create an association at all? By definition you are (At least at the start.) going to be a lesser product. What upside is there to remind everyone of this every time they use Google to find you?

It is tough enough to get them thinking about YOU in the first place if you ask me. And sure you have every "right" to use just about any name you choose, why start in such a confusing fashion by putting them in mind if someone who will not be there and is so much more established than you are?

Your name doesn't have to be remotely relevant to your actual name.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Nov 5, 2020 09:11AM)
[quote]On Nov 4, 2020, TomBoleware wrote:
Also a picture of you on your site could help.

Tom [/quote]
Wow had anyone ever thought of using pictures on a web page? Maybe a page dedicated to them might help too huh?
Message: Posted by: TomBoleware (Nov 5, 2020 01:24PM)
[quote]On Nov 5, 2020, DyeTube wrote:
[quote]On Nov 4, 2020, TomBoleware wrote:
You have every right to use your own name, but itís understandable in your case to not make it confusing to those that may know the other Jeff. Simply using a middle name could separate the two of you. Also a picture of you on your site could help.

The one thing I would NOT do would be to explain why youíre not the other Jeff. Actually outside the magic circles, you wonít meet many that would know Jeff.

Personally, I say use a middle name and I don't see a problem. Now if your name were Copperfield you might have a real problem.:)

Tom [/quote]

From an SEO perspective, if you type in Jeff McBride in any search engine you find him instantly obviously. I thought about using the name "Mac" (Short for McBride) and I could be "Mac the Magician". I really don't care for my middle name, lol. My full name is Jeffrey Ray McBride and I guess I could use that but it makes it REALLY long. I could probably get a domain name such as www.jeffraymcbride.com or www.jeffreyraymcbride.com (jeffmcbride.com is taken) but macthemagician.com is not taken and is much shorter and easy to remember. [/quote]


Good point. And Mac The Magician would be very easy to remember. Sounds like a winner to me.

Good luck with it,

Tom
Message: Posted by: TomBoleware (Nov 5, 2020 01:35PM)
[quote]On Nov 5, 2020, Dannydoyle wrote:
[quote]On Nov 4, 2020, TomBoleware wrote:
Also a picture of you on your site could help.

Tom [/quote]
Wow had anyone ever thought of using pictures on a web page? Maybe a page dedicated to them might help too huh? [/quote]

You would be surprised with how many that donít use pictures. And many that do are so outdated itís misleading.

Tom
Message: Posted by: Michael L (Nov 5, 2020 08:20PM)
Honestly? I would recommend you reach our to the other Jeff McBride. He seems to love talking about all aspects of magic from the magic itself, to the performance, to the business. He might get a kick out of helping you and offer you solid advice.

From a legal perspective, you have a right to use your name, but he may have some trademarks he could take you to court over. (I'm not suggesting he would, but you have to see it as a possibility)
From a business perspective, as you said you'd be buried beneath pages of web search results that have nothing to do with you. You might also run into business and magicians who resent you because they assume you're trying to step on other Jeff and cash in on his success.

If you absolutely want to use your real name, Jeffrey Ray or Ray McBride could be options. Or you could work under a pseudonym like many other successful magicians. The advantage of a pseudonym if that if ever you change your performing persona, you can change your pseudonym as well.
Message: Posted by: DyeTube (Nov 6, 2020 12:54AM)
[quote]On Nov 5, 2020, Mindpro wrote:
Its hard to tell if this is a serious post or not as you seem to be plugging 3-4 things first, then asking a question. Not the best way to appear sincere in this forum.

But assuming you are serious, here's some thoughts to consider. Yes, if you listen to Tom, you have the RIGHT to use your name (Jeffrey McBride) but why would you and how intelligent of a business move would that be? Jeff is quite established and you are right, the SEO alone would be problematic on several levels. It would attract attention and more problems to you.

A good friend of mine for many decades was Davy Jones (of the 60s rock group/t.v. show The Monkees). Davy was an established actor and singer in the UK as a young teen, and then became a worldwide idol once arriving here in the states in the mid-late 60s. Several years later another singer/actor named David Jones began to emerge in the UK and was trying to become established in the ever-so-important U.S. market. Because of Davy, he had to (was advised by label and management) change his own real name as not to get confused, so he did to David Bowie, and he never looked back.

So it really becomes a business and performing issue of whether you want to contend with the already more established Jeff McBride or opt for a different performance identity. You could always go with a similar name such as Jeffrey McB, or come up with an entire different last name for your performance persona. It's too bad you don't like Jeff or Jeffrey Ray, as it is easy to say, easy to remember, and Jeff Ray is a two, single-syllable name that many branding specialists will tell you is always preferred.

I wouldn't advise you to use McBride. [/quote]

No, lol, this isn't a plug for my business, I just threw that in. I am serious about performing again though. I hadn't heard that story about David Bowie before but it really kinda helps. I do know that others have done something similar because of someone else well known having the same name as them. Years ago I thought about using the name Selah for a brief second (even did a few shows under the name), but I really didn't like the name, it was just something my mom suggested, lol.
Message: Posted by: DyeTube (Nov 6, 2020 01:11AM)
[quote]On Nov 5, 2020, Michael L wrote:
Honestly? I would recommend you reach our to the other Jeff McBride. He seems to love talking about all aspects of magic from the magic itself, to the performance, to the business. He might get a kick out of helping you and offer you solid advice.

From a legal perspective, you have a right to use your name, but he may have some trademarks he could take you to court over. (I'm not suggesting he would, but you have to see it as a possibility)
From a business perspective, as you said you'd be buried beneath pages of web search results that have nothing to do with you. You might also run into business and magicians who resent you because they assume you're trying to step on other Jeff and cash in on his success.

If you absolutely want to use your real name, Jeffrey Ray or Ray McBride could be options. Or you could work under a pseudonym like many other successful magicians. The advantage of a pseudonym if that if ever you change your performing persona, you can change your pseudonym as well. [/quote]

Long story short, I first met Jeff McBride in or around 1988 or 1989 when he was touring with the Rockettes here in Dallas and was the "halftime entertainment" and I had first gotten into magic. I went to the show with my sister and made sure to find out where he would be after his performance and waited for him at the door where he would exit so he could sign a playing card (I was having famous magicians sign playing cards at the time). He signed the card "To Jeff, change your name in using it!" - Jeff McBride. I also met him again when I attended the TAOM in 2000 in Austin, Texas and he was the headliner. Let's just say that my experiences with him were not that great, unfortunately. I haven't seen or spoken with him since so maybe reaching out to him would be a good thing. Who knows?

I honestly never thought about using "Ray McBride" but that is a definite possibility! It's easy to remember and also pretty simple to remember. I also like the idea of using a pseudonym which is why I suggested Mac the Magician. It completely distances me from Jeff but still retains the "McBride" aspect albeit in disguise (like a magician). I have just never loved the "the magician" part of the name for some reason. I think it sounds cheesy. Maybe I am overthinking that though. Maybe I just be like prince and change my name to a symbol, lol.
Message: Posted by: DyeTube (Nov 6, 2020 01:12AM)
[quote]On Nov 5, 2020, TomBoleware wrote:
[quote]On Nov 5, 2020, DyeTube wrote:
[quote]On Nov 4, 2020, TomBoleware wrote:
You have every right to use your own name, but itís understandable in your case to not make it confusing to those that may know the other Jeff. Simply using a middle name could separate the two of you. Also a picture of you on your site could help.

The one thing I would NOT do would be to explain why youíre not the other Jeff. Actually outside the magic circles, you wonít meet many that would know Jeff.

Personally, I say use a middle name and I don't see a problem. Now if your name were Copperfield you might have a real problem.:)

Tom [/quote]

From an SEO perspective, if you type in Jeff McBride in any search engine you find him instantly obviously. I thought about using the name "Mac" (Short for McBride) and I could be "Mac the Magician". I really don't care for my middle name, lol. My full name is Jeffrey Ray McBride and I guess I could use that but it makes it REALLY long. I could probably get a domain name such as www.jeffraymcbride.com or www.jeffreyraymcbride.com (jeffmcbride.com is taken) but macthemagician.com is not taken and is much shorter and easy to remember. [/quote]


Good point. And Mac The Magician would be very easy to remember. Sounds like a winner to me.

Good luck with it,

Tom [/quote]

I am so far leaning towards "Mac the Magician". I'd just have to get used to people yelling"Mac!", lol. thanks though!
Message: Posted by: DyeTube (Nov 6, 2020 01:15AM)
[quote]On Nov 5, 2020, Dannydoyle wrote:
I don't know as much as ol Tom, but why even create an association at all? By definition you are (At least at the start.) going to be a lesser product. What upside is there to remind everyone of this every time they use Google to find you?

It is tough enough to get them thinking about YOU in the first place if you ask me. And sure you have every "right" to use just about any name you choose, why start in such a confusing fashion by putting them in mind if someone who will not be there and is so much more established than you are?

Your name doesn't have to be remotely relevant to your actual name. [/quote]

This was EXACTLY my thought process. Were I not experienced in SEO, I wouldn't have even thought about it lol. I'd love to be a full-time magician again, lol. I just was thinking about domain names and couldn't hit upon something short, sweet, and distanced from Jeff McBride.
Message: Posted by: Michael L (Nov 6, 2020 01:38AM)
[quote]On Nov 6, 2020, DyeTube wrote:

I honestly never thought about using "Ray McBride" but that is a definite possibility! It's easy to remember and also pretty simple to remember. I also like the idea of using a pseudonym which is why I suggested Mac the Magician. It completely distances me from Jeff but still retains the "McBride" aspect albeit in disguise (like a magician). I have just never loved the "the magician" part of the name for some reason. I think it sounds cheesy. Maybe I am overthinking that though. Maybe I just be like prince and change my name to a symbol, lol. [/quote]

You don't need the be "Astoundo the Magnificent"
Harry Houdini was a pseudonym (a tribute), so is David Copperfield (he just liked the name from a book). Whit Haydn performs as Pop Haydn now, and Carisa Hendrix performs as Lucy Darling or Dee Dee Darling depending on whether she's performing for adults of for children (and her personas are vastly different).
You can similarly adopt a name you've always liked the sound of, though it would probably involve more legal documentation than you would need if using your own name.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Nov 6, 2020 08:08AM)
Yea why put things like magnificent in it at all? I've seen so few of those I take seriously.
Message: Posted by: Michael L (Nov 6, 2020 08:53AM)
[quote]On Nov 6, 2020, Dannydoyle wrote:
Yea why put things like magnificent in it at all? I've seen so few of those I take seriously. [/quote]

Couldn't agree more. Just show me what you can do and I'll decide if you're magnificent.
It's like the clickbait articles telling you how to feel before you read...
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Nov 6, 2020 09:10AM)
[quote]On Nov 6, 2020, Dannydoyle wrote:
Yea why put things like magnificent in it at all? I've seen so few of those I take seriously. [/quote]

I couldn't agree more. Just like names that end in "ini", or "the magic of", or "The Great..." Might as well have a 70s business card that says "Magic For All Occasions." Who takes any of that seriously anymore? Maybe kids performers can still get away with it (even then, its still tongue in cheek with the parents/adults.)

As I discuss in my Getting Started in Entertainment Business Program (which I will be holding again after the first of the year), changing a name or using a different performing name is not a big deal, simply complete and file a DBA. No need for big, costly expenses or processes, especially if you are going to only be performing locally or part-time.

And yes, stay away from cheesy claims.

Next, this should be more of a question of positioning and branding than just personal preference. What is better for your business (even if only part time?) If you are serving restaurants what is best for that performance market? How do you want to be positioned in your/that market? I'd see this as an opportunity not a problem or dreaded thing you must face.

I'd suggest staying away from McBride. Why invite confusion, problems and headaches?

Sure, you can use your other names or aspects of them, I still like Jeff Ray, but you can also got outside your names to create something completely different and inviting. Perhaps something more descriptive or that creates an specific image or in the mind of others?

While Magic Mac means nothing really, other than to say you do magic, a more distinct name could say so much more.

Also, what does restaurants "and the like mean"? What are you targeting here?
Message: Posted by: DyeTube (Nov 9, 2020 01:14AM)
I think I've pretty much settled on "MAC". No MAC the magician. Just MAC. It's simple and easy to remember. I'd have to use www.macmagik.com instead of www.macmagic.com though, as that is taken. But that domain is quite short. Look at the design I created and let me know what you guys think. Not super happy about using macmagik.com but it's kind of a small concession I suppose, right?

[url=https://ibb.co/92mrPM6][img]https://i.ibb.co/y5mQ23t/business-card-front.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://ibb.co/QPf1Zkv][img]https://i.ibb.co/K2X3YDx/business-card-back.jpg[/img][/url]
Message: Posted by: DyeTube (Nov 9, 2020 01:25AM)
I changed the design just a tad:

[url=https://ibb.co/s9gKF38][img]https://i.ibb.co/hFgBK83/business-card-front-v2.jpg[/img][/url]
Message: Posted by: snm (Nov 9, 2020 05:27AM)
Go with Jeff Ray and just be done with it.

Why would you spell magik with a "k" instead of a "c"?

You either look like you can't spell or you are trying to be some super trendy hip-hop brand.
(usually lots of misspellings within that community)

Also it being with a "k" will have some impact on seo since no one searches for magic spelt that way.

Even if their know your name... and go to search for you... they aren't going to spell the magic with a "k"
and they are going to find this other domain that someone already has.

Just my $0.02 and some things to perhaps give a little think about.
Message: Posted by: TomBoleware (Nov 9, 2020 10:12AM)
Maybe try: mac for magic.com

Tom
Message: Posted by: DyeTube (Nov 9, 2020 09:37PM)
I have settled on "MAC". It's short, simple, and actually is my name. I didn't like the "k" in "Magik" it was just that macmagic.com or magicmac.com were both take but macmagik.com wasn't taken which is why I thought it could be an option. The Domain www.macthemagician.com is available and I really don't mind using "the magician" as part of my name. I know some don't like it, but I'm okay with it. I just can't get excited about "Jeff Ray" honestly. Also, this simple design lets me create really cool swag like t-shirts and stickers to promote myself more effectively and get gigs. Look at the logo below on a business card mockup. I really like the way it looks.

[img]https://i.ibb.co/gy3pvCf/business-card-template-v3.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (Nov 9, 2020 10:24PM)
Very cool looking logo. Congrats.

Greg
Message: Posted by: TomBoleware (Nov 10, 2020 06:38AM)
Looks Great. Well Done.

Tom
Message: Posted by: MikeClay (Nov 13, 2020 04:53AM)
As a guy who has the same name as someone who is famous, and is branded by my name...
Mac Magik is the right choice

For me to rank for my name, I have to beat things like ESPN.com ... NOT an easy task...
Message: Posted by: snm (Nov 13, 2020 08:40PM)
Macthemagician is better than macmagik

Also, for the business card...

put a URL to the website...

Don't get too fancy with the site.

A simple landing page with some direct response copy (and a video helps conversions) for them to contact you.
Message: Posted by: DyeTube (Nov 15, 2020 03:22PM)
[quote]On Nov 13, 2020, snm wrote:
Macthemagician is better than macmagik

Also, for the business card...

put a URL to the website...

Don't get too fancy with the site.

A simple landing page with some direct response copy (and a video helps conversions) for them to contact you. [/quote]

SEO is my specialty, lol. I am a Corporate Applications Developer by trade and now own my own design and development company. And, yes, I didn't care for "magik" either. It was just initially for SEO purposes to get found better but I can still easily rank well for Mac The Magician. Also, "magik" just doesn't look good unless I did "mak magik" and I don't even care for that, lol. I went ahead and bought www.macthemagician.com and I am starting to work on the site now.
Message: Posted by: Wravyn (Nov 15, 2020 04:00PM)
And if you can find a song writer to change the lyrics of Mack the Knife to Mac the Mage, you can have a theme song. :band:
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Nov 15, 2020 04:24PM)
Please don't do that.
Message: Posted by: DyeTube (Nov 16, 2020 01:14PM)
[quote]On Nov 15, 2020, Wravyn wrote:
And if you can find a song writer to change the lyrics of Mack the Knife to Mac the Mage, you can have a theme song. :band: [/quote]

Haha! No thanks though...
Message: Posted by: Pop Haydn (Jan 20, 2021 10:22PM)
Mac MacHeath! There's a memorable name! :)
Message: Posted by: 1KJ (Jan 21, 2021 01:55AM)
I like Mac. Simple and memorable. Good work. What routines do you enjoy perform?
KJ